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Pick Your Poison Mafia - Page 2

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slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
June 01 2012 22:02 GMT
#296
[image loading]

"e:" denotes that the vote was encrypted before the deadline (I've also checked each one - they are all valid).
So the 5 are Kurumi, talismania, Toadesstern, wherebugsgo, Radfield.
As I've said before, because its 5 people (more than 3, the number of scum) there is really no telling alignments from this. You could glean slight tells for people's response to the plan itself but I think the Hiro's GF vote garnering enough suspicion for a vote makes no sense and people pushing / supporting that is wickity wack.
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
June 01 2012 23:35 GMT
#319
Yea I really don't understand why people are voting HiroPro. His posts other than the GF one don't read scum to me, nor does the actual GF post, and it looks like people are bsing the whole thing because no one has found it pertinent to flesh out that discussion of why it is exclusively a scummy thing to do.

Risk is straight up sheeping Radfield or something because he is busy and not reading for himself. That is our lurker lynch option.

Sbrubbles still sticks out to me. Organizing thoughts into the next post.
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
June 02 2012 00:02 GMT
#326
Toad since you are here can you flesh out the GF explanation?
On June 02 2012 06:52 slOosh wrote:
Why is Hiro voting GF an exclusively scummy thing to do and not something that a townie would do?

This is also my beef with Sbrubbles. If it was so obvious that it would be a vote split between RB and framer, then mafia would understand that there is no need to vote 1-1-1 because the whole point you vote 1-1-1 is to slip by lie detection, not to confuse town what role mafia has. Hiro voted GF. You are claiming that he is one of mafia who still chose to vote 1-1-1 knowing that RB and framer are the only plausible roles that they will get.

So why are you calling Hiro scum by saying that the situation would make a good scum play and therefore he must be scum?

I want to vote Sbrubbles for the same reason, as well as how much resistance its been facing. Seriously like 2 or 3 times people just avert discussion away from that dude.
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
June 02 2012 00:03 GMT
#327
Radfield could you explain why you found Sbrubbles' filter ok looking?
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
June 02 2012 00:18 GMT
#334
prplhz don't forget to vote in the voting thread here.

Sbrubbles your whole case is built on HiroPro's comprehension (or lack thereof) of the situation in D1, that the votes were split between roleblocker and framer. And yet other players have also expressed this
On June 01 2012 05:05 talismania wrote:
This thinking is why I voted roleblocker, and why I'm surprised so many people went with framer (unless all the framer votes are mafia fakes).
On June 02 2012 08:51 Radfield wrote:
Also, given they way discussion was going yesterday, I would not be surprised if mafia put 2 votes on RB and 1 vote on Framer, expecting it to be a runaway roleblocker win. I certainly expected everyone to pick roleblocker.


And Hiro has explained that he felt GF was the weakest role.
On June 01 2012 03:54 HiroPro wrote:
Because I felt that it's the weakest role, as it's only really effective against tracker (since gf can send kills himself). GF is immune to cop, but it doesn't protect the other members of the team and it can't introduce false positives. And since cop in this setup only has 1 shot, they will most likely be using it on someone who feel has a strong chance of being scum and a positive result is pretty much a confirmation then without framer. And of course it does nothing to any of the other roles.


Yet you continue to hold onto this notion that Hiro must be scum. I call nonsense.
##Vote: Sbrubbles
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
June 02 2012 00:34 GMT
#340
Nah - let's get some thoughts on Sbrubbles. Both Navillus and risk.nuke have shown apathy and disinterest in the game and both are worth a lurker lynch. I want thoughts on Sbrubbles.
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
June 02 2012 00:41 GMT
#344
Fine, I've switched over to the lurker Navillus vote, securing the lynch. Now can we discuss him as a potential D2 lynch candidate?
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
June 02 2012 01:13 GMT
#349
On June 02 2012 09:37 Toadesstern wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 02 2012 09:34 slOosh wrote:
Nah - let's get some thoughts on Sbrubbles. Both Navillus and risk.nuke have shown apathy and disinterest in the game and both are worth a lurker lynch. I want thoughts on Sbrubbles.

I don't think a sbrubbles lynch is going to happen and I don't think it's helpful to cluster up the thread 2 hours short of the deadline when we need people to vote someone else...

We got the votes. There clearly isn't any clustering going on in here. Could I please have your thoughts on Sbrubbles?
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
June 02 2012 23:36 GMT
#395
Don't have readily available internet access on weekend so can't read & comment fully - voting lynch lock as it doesn't seem like we have any consensus at all on suspects.
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
June 04 2012 03:43 GMT
#510
Toad please keep LV talk out of this thread, at least as long as you alive in that ongoing game.

I've skimmed most of the posts, but unable to post b/c I want to quote stuff and it's hard.
I'll have proper internets on the weekday so I'll be regular activity again.

Zephirdd only reason to lynch risk over Toad is if you definitively think risk is more likely to flip scum over Toad. Maybe I missed posts skimming but risk is quasi-lurker, which means for him to look more scummy is to basically say Toad is looking null / town. Can you do this? Show risk is more scummy?

I think talis mentioned that I stopped pushing Sbrubbles on the nonsense GF vote, which I think was part of Radfield's case against Toad. I need to refilter this properly tomorrow since I think he acknoweldges his mistake somewhere and a bunch of people who I think are town also think he looks ok so I gotta look again.

prplhz vs Kurumi (?) thing I skipped entirely and will reread tomorrow.
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
June 04 2012 17:12 GMT
#535
Alright - I've caught up on the thread.

@Radfield - the "nonsense GF vote" refers to when several players attacked HiroPro for his GF vote but none could properly procure (in my opinion) a decent explanation as why it was scummy. That said, many of my town reads find Sbrubbles ok and right now there is the more pressing matter of consolidating today's lynch.

Before that I want to preface my vote by saying that there are several players who seem keen on chasing red herrings.
Stuff like "the game must be balanced in terms of vets", "why did mafia shoot WBG", "what roles would scum give town" are all that. Not because they are illegitimate discussion points (except the first one I think that's total rubbish), but there is a more pressing matter at hand which is deciding today's lynch and these three questions really do very little to nothing to determine which is the best candidate for the lynch, and serve as distractions that cripple town's focus.

I find myself agreeing strongly with Radfield's read on Toadesstern, more so because of the way Toad responded to his case. As talismania pointed out, he doesn't actually consider Radfield as possible scum. He defends himself not by showing why the case's points are flawed, but rather throwing out discussion points such as balance
On June 04 2012 17:18 Toadesstern wrote:
Another thing I have in mind right now is balance. Do you really think a team like Rad proposed (Toad + Risk + Zephirdd?) is likely? Against Town-WBG, against Town-Rad, against Town-Prplhz, against Town-Kurumi?
Those are all here playing mafia way longer than I am, especially Rad and WBG. WBG already flipped town. Do you honestly believe someone would make a team like that? That's btw the only reason I question Rad right now. Balancewise it would make a lot of sense if he's mafia but I can't find a thing that brings me to that conclusion except for this very thought.

as well as focusing upon the "scumslip". Radfield said himself that his case isn't built up on standalone points but that they all together suggest a pattern rather than coincidences. Yet he is treating the case as if it was some runaway bandwagon caused by someone finding a "scumslip" and focusing all his attention on this point, despite people actually thinking the opposite (compelled by the other points of the case / his response to it rather than the "scumslip")

On June 04 2012 08:16 talismania wrote:
Actually, another point in light of the case rad just posted: why did you reply so defensively to my post at all?
On June 04 2012 08:32 HiroPro wrote:
I agree with Radfield. I don't find the "going to be there d2" scummy but both the push on me (the uneven nature of it, especially when I look at people like Sbrubbles who also pushed me but did it very differently) and the really strange accusation on WBG (especially when Toad attempted to use this in his case against prplhz) are scummy. Toad's response to my questioning on the WBG part of his case against prplhz was bad, especially since he misrepresents prplhz (says that prplhz continued to push for WBG lynch, when in fact that was not the case at all.
##Vote: Toadesstern (I will not be voting in the actual thread until much closer to the deadline)


I think we got something solid here:
##Vote: Toadesstern


P.s. I also think risk.nuke is scum and a great D3 lynch candidate. The reason why I support a Toad lynch over risk is because the case is stronger.
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
June 04 2012 17:13 GMT
#536
EBWOP: "preface my vote" should read "I want to say something before I talk about my vote" rather than "I want to say something as an introduction to my vote". Poor word choice here.
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
June 04 2012 19:03 GMT
#545
On June 05 2012 02:48 Toadesstern wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2012 02:12 slOosh wrote:
Alright - I've caught up on the thread.

@Radfield - the "nonsense GF vote" refers to when several players attacked HiroPro for his GF vote but none could properly procure (in my opinion) a decent explanation as why it was scummy. That said, many of my town reads find Sbrubbles ok and right now there is the more pressing matter of consolidating today's lynch.

Before that I want to preface my vote by saying that there are several players who seem keen on chasing red herrings.
Stuff like "the game must be balanced in terms of vets", "why did mafia shoot WBG", "what roles would scum give town" are all that. Not because they are illegitimate discussion points (except the first one I think that's total rubbish), but there is a more pressing matter at hand which is deciding today's lynch and these three questions really do very little to nothing to determine which is the best candidate for the lynch, and serve as distractions that cripple town's focus.

I find myself agreeing strongly with Radfield's read on Toadesstern, more so because of the way Toad responded to his case. As talismania pointed out, he doesn't actually consider Radfield as possible scum. He defends himself not by showing why the case's points are flawed, but rather throwing out discussion points such as balance
On June 04 2012 17:18 Toadesstern wrote:
Another thing I have in mind right now is balance. Do you really think a team like Rad proposed (Toad + Risk + Zephirdd?) is likely? Against Town-WBG, against Town-Rad, against Town-Prplhz, against Town-Kurumi?
Those are all here playing mafia way longer than I am, especially Rad and WBG. WBG already flipped town. Do you honestly believe someone would make a team like that? That's btw the only reason I question Rad right now. Balancewise it would make a lot of sense if he's mafia but I can't find a thing that brings me to that conclusion except for this very thought.

as well as focusing upon the "scumslip". Radfield said himself that his case isn't built up on standalone points but that they all together suggest a pattern rather than coincidences. Yet he is treating the case as if it was some runaway bandwagon caused by someone finding a "scumslip" and focusing all his attention on this point, despite people actually thinking the opposite (compelled by the other points of the case / his response to it rather than the "scumslip")

On June 04 2012 08:16 talismania wrote:
Actually, another point in light of the case rad just posted: why did you reply so defensively to my post at all?
On June 04 2012 08:32 HiroPro wrote:
I agree with Radfield. I don't find the "going to be there d2" scummy but both the push on me (the uneven nature of it, especially when I look at people like Sbrubbles who also pushed me but did it very differently) and the really strange accusation on WBG (especially when Toad attempted to use this in his case against prplhz) are scummy. Toad's response to my questioning on the WBG part of his case against prplhz was bad, especially since he misrepresents prplhz (says that prplhz continued to push for WBG lynch, when in fact that was not the case at all.
##Vote: Toadesstern (I will not be voting in the actual thread until much closer to the deadline)


I think we got something solid here:
##Vote: Toadesstern


P.s. I also think risk.nuke is scum and a great D3 lynch candidate. The reason why I support a Toad lynch over risk is because the case is stronger.


So summary: I am scum because instead of defending myself from Rad (which I did and you apparently either haven't read it or ignored it) instead of attacking him and for being defensive when talis asked me about something rather than head on attacking someone.

Nice logic. I think you need to lynch everyone in the game.

Just in case you actually skipped the posts for some reason:
+ Show Spoiler [#1, in general] +
On June 04 2012 07:57 Toadesstern wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 04 2012 07:27 Radfield wrote:
Why is Toad scum.

Or rather, why do I think Toad is scum. This may be slightly long winded, and it certainly won't be concise. Toad is an active player as scum, and has fooled me twice before because of that. There is no clear and decisive scum agenda Toad is pushing, and there is no one thing that makes him scum(though I did find my first ever real-live damning scumslip). Instead what I have is a body of evidence that shows Toad is not playing with Town goals in mind. He is playing in an effort to lead mislynches, and with a goal of keeping town moving in the wrong direction.

I find very little scummy in Toad's Day 0 play. With lots to contribute and lots to discuss it is extremely easy for an active scum player(like Toad) to blend in on Day 0. Apart from the fact that he begins to buddy me very early on, I see little that leads me to think he is scum in the first 24 hours.

Day 1 however is a very different story. I'd like to talk about 4 main points. First, the pushing of Hiropro. Second, the WBG flip flop(which has been discussed, but not adequately). Third, and most damning, the double scum slip. Fourth and lastly, the case on Prplhz. There are also several additional small isolated issues which I will mention.

Please remember that none of these points by themselves indicate that Toad is scum. But taken as an entire body of evidence they amount to a damning case against a very likely scum player.

I'd also like to mention that this case is NOT based on my previous analysis of Framer/Roleblocker/GF votes. That was an exercise to narrow down my focus, NOT the basis of a case. However I am confident that I was correct in my assessment.



Point Number 1: the attack on Hiropro

What I'd like to represent is that Toad attempts to push a lynch onto Hiro very strongly. A lynch not based on whether or not Hiro is scummy, but rather based solely on the fact that Hiro voted GF. Additionally, Toad states strongly and ephatically that Hiro is scum.... and then waffles away and gives alternate targets.

Let me say that again, he is almost sure that hiro is scum, going so far as to say "Hiro is basicly a claimed mafia", but then offers up other lynch options. What!? If you think a guy is for sure scum, and has slipped hard, you don't just offer up other options.

Also, witness the tone:

First, incredulity and confusion, but no accusation:

On June 01 2012 04:39 Toadesstern wrote:
That's got to be a joke. Godfather? Why?!?! It was clear the decision would be either RB or framer at some point and you chose to pick Godfather and completly wasted your vote?
Someone explained (I think risk?) d0 that the only solution to not screw up as mafia is to pick 1-1-1. 1 guy votes RB, one guy votes framer, one guy picks GF because that way they add 1 to each thing and don't change a thing.

So wtf?


Second: Weirdness and oddness, with some discussion about why you should stick to the plans. Again, no hint of a strong accusation here. An accusation perhaps of not being a team player, even equating his play to a townie from a different game, but both those things actually soft accuse Hiropro of being Town, just not a team player.

On June 01 2012 05:29 Toadesstern wrote:

Well you've got to agree that it's looking weird that you are apparently the only one who voted GF when we talked about how 1-1-1 is the only way for mafia to not screw up and all the talk d0 was either about RB > framer or about framer > RB.
Why didn't you talk about this? This is essentially the same thing I was talking about in PYP when talking with risk.
I have no problem with people telling me they think otherwise and that we should change a "plan" but I do have a problem with people ninja-voting without telling us screwing us over.
If what you said is reasonable (and I don't think it is) you should have tried to explain to us why what you said is reasonable. Yet here you stand, voting GF and it's apparently not important enough to you what role mafia gets because you haven't told us so and you still voted GF and not, like everyone else either RB or framer. That's really odd.


Next post and several hours later Toad drops down his vote without further discussion. No additional points raised, but we've gone from gentle admonition to wanting him to hang.

He follows it up with this post which is a giant contradiction. A) thinks Hiro is basically a claimed mafia. B) is willing to lynch some other guy who is NOT a claimed mafia in Toads eyes. That does not jive one bit.

On June 01 2012 21:50 Toadesstern wrote:
I'd like to lynch into hiro or wbg at this point.

Hiro is basicly a claimed mafia who says "well yeah, but would a mafia claim mafia?" which just doesn't work for me anymore since PYP.

WBG is just plain ridiculous right now and he's way better as town than what we see here. Add that to what I mentioned earlier about him (not knowing the d0 cycle was only 24 hours, not posting) and I feel like wbg would be the best vet to lynch into if I can convince you to lynch into a vet :p



Toad then goes on to only softly push Hiropro. First adding on a convoluted reason for him to be scum, which is quickly shown to be incorrect, and then falling into softy urging posts like these:

+ Show Spoiler +
On June 02 2012 06:17 Toadesstern wrote:
1. Toad says hiro votin GF is incredible scummy
2. Rad posts:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2012 05:08 Radfield wrote:
[...]

Did we actually just catch scum by hiropro voting godfather?? Time to filter!!

3. ...
4. Nothing?

What was your result of filterting him? That statement I quoted sounds really strong and yet I'm the only one voting hiro when noone has disagreed with it except for hiro?
Is there a reason for that?

On June 02 2012 06:39 Toadesstern wrote:
Any chance hiros lynch is going to happen? That guy is not playing at all and I still think the GF vote is as scummy as you can get.

That being said Zephird isn't really as much as an option for me... Hiro voted Zephird and I doubt they're bussing on d1 lol

On June 02 2012 07:41 Toadesstern wrote:
Ok screw this, hiro is not going to happen... need to think and read and vice versa


This from a guy who felt he had bagged a scum straight up. The real gist here is that Toad's tone does not follow any kind of cohesion. He's hot and cold and up and down on hiro, but always with a pushing towards lynch.




Point 2: The bugs flip=flop

First Toad makes 3 posts that point him having a pretty null read on bugs, and certainly not a scum read:
+ Show Spoiler +

On June 01 2012 01:10 Toadesstern wrote:
[EDIT: referring to bugs:)Well the game only now started and I probably look like I don't care right now as well as I'm not posting at all.
The thing is that we're lacking activity right now, we haven't even got an update from everyone what they've voted and we need that.

On June 01 2012 01:52 Toadesstern wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2012 01:25 prplhz wrote:
[...]

@Toadesstern What do you think about it? You are acting as if my post had "Toadesstern" in place of all the "wherebugsgo"s. You are saying that you want more content and that the thread is in a bad state, and then you say that you're not going to do anything until everybody has been in here and told you their vote. That's pretty self contradictory behavior. Give me something.

I'm saying that I have the same read about multiple people right now. It could be on purpose, it could be frustration and it's more of a sign of lazyness than an indication of scummyness right now.

On June 01 2012 02:35 Toadesstern wrote:
I read the OP once every game and when questions like those appear I check the parragraph again. I was frankly quite shocked that wbg didn't know it's only a 24h cycle because again. Those are the things I keep checking again and again to make sure I understand the details.

I'd take the "didn't know about the 24h"-thing much more as an "not caring about the game"-argument than the fact that people are posting so little right now.


However, without mentioning him again, he now wants to lynch bugs. Not only that, but he's adding in bugs when he has already apparently found a 'claimed mafia' in Hiropro.

On June 01 2012 21:50 Toadesstern wrote:
I'd like to lynch into hiro or wbg at this point.

Hiro is basicly a claimed mafia who says "well yeah, but would a mafia claim mafia?" which just doesn't work for me anymore since PYP.
WBG is just plain ridiculous right now and he's way better as town than what we see here. Add that to what I mentioned earlier about him (not knowing the d0 cycle was only 24 hours, not posting) and I feel like wbg would be the best vet to lynch into if I can convince you to lynch into a vet :p


Also, look at his reasoning: not knowing the cycle was 24 hours, and not posting. Yet those are the exact thing that Toad mentioned earlier, not as scummy though, but as null! So how do those things suddenly become the basis of a case to rival hiropro, someone he thinks is very likely scum.

Straight up contradictions.




Point 3: The scum slips

Let me be clear that I have never before found what I consider to be a true 'scum-slip'. The word gets bandied about on this site, and can mean pretty much anything. What it really means though, is to be in possession of information that townies could not possibly have, and only mafia could have.

On June 02 2012 10:16 Toadesstern wrote:
got ninja'ed
About sbrubbles: I'll tell you once d2 has started for obvious reasons, sry.



hmm, where's the scum-slip you ask? I missed it at first too, but it's very clearly there. Toad is absolutely 100% he will be around on Day 2. There is only 1 way, and I do mean 1 way, that Toad can be convinced he will live till Day 2.

But maybe it was just a slip of the tongue, and he's not actually sure he'll survive the night....

On June 03 2012 00:35 Toadesstern wrote:
Okay back and I know I promised I would talk about who those 2 guys are I mentioned and why they are mafia but I realized I was retarded when I said that. See you d2 :p


Except he does it again!! He confirms the scumslip. This is a guy who just recently was shot night 1 in WoF mini-mafia, and has been getting shot more and more by mafia. There is no reason at all he should be certain he'll survive the night. In fact, if he is town he should be expecting that he is one of the more likely shots.

In fact, he even posts his prplhz case right before the deadline, as if he might get shot. But how then is he 100% certain he'll survive till Day 2. There are no vets, and no other way he could be certain he will survive.

The only way to be certain is if he is scum.




Point 4: The prplhz case

I'm going to make this brief, as I feel there is already a body of evidence that shows Toads guilt without this. However Toads push on prplhz is indicative of a scum-push. Very often, when a scum player tries to push a townie, he does it by citing the wrong reasons. There are reasons to see prplhz as scummy, but NOT because of his defense of Navillus.

The key is that prplhz defended Navillus several times, but then switched over and voted for him early on in the wagon(3rd vote). There is an argument to be made there that prplhz was scummy in doing that. Toad touches on that, but his focus is squarely on the fact that prplhz should not have found Navillus scummy in the first place.

This is a competely backwards approach, one because prplhz was clear in his reasoning, and second because townies are defended all the time along the same lines prplhz was using.

Toad is pushing prplhz for the wrong reason, something which scum do all the time. This is not a particularly strong point, but a valid one nonetheless.




Additionally, Toad has been buddying me all game, asking for activity without contributing himself and appealing to dead players. Add in the 4 points of my case, and you have a player who is almost assuredly mafia.


Vote for Toad. In fact, I don't even mind if you vote in the voting thread too, as I'm fairly sure he is scum.

##Vote: Toadesstern


Going to break the answer down to your 4 parts:


Part 1: I thought Hiropro is a semi-vet. That's why I attacked him for the GF vote because I thought a vet would be smart enough to figure out that it's either RB or framer with all the talk d0 and I thought I caught him lying about why he voted for GF. Furthermore I would have considered a vet who really thinks that GF could be an issue to be more talkactive about what he found out BEFORE the end of deadline. That was basicly it. And yeah it collapsed the moment I was told hiro is not a vet. If you had told me "i wasn't sure it's between RB and Framer and therefore voted GF" I would have voted you as well.
About the confirmed... Give me one game in which I don't talk about confirmed people. That's an exaggeration I can't get rid of. I called VE confirmed mafia in LV and he flipped town lol.


Part 2:
I added WBG to the list because I thought the 24-hour thing IS something weird while the not talking part wasn't considering that half of the players had not started talking at that time


Part 3:
That's me referring to the deadline. As in "See you tomorrow and in I'll answer that 10 seconds short of the deadline with one big post". Also I got A LOT of criticism for mentioning I'm a n1 target in LV. Go read n1 of that game Rad. I thought I should just keep it neutral this time because people called me disruptive in LV for that reason.


Part 4:
Well and I simply disagree with part 4.


"Part 5:"
The buddying thing. I'm not buddying I'm joking around and ever since the Annul game I am joking around with people who have been in derpgames like that and I still find it funny that you called me most-likely-town that game. I'm "buddying" you in every game. I did the same in c9++ #2, I did the same in the PYP you coached. I was town in both...

+ Show Spoiler [#2, about the "scumslip"] +
On June 04 2012 08:20 Toadesstern wrote:
Ok if I am referring to Day2 show me the big post on d2 I was referring to on d2...

Here's a little quote from WBG from LV after I said I'm probably going to die n1:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2012 09:48 wherebugsgo wrote:
Shut up Toad you're not worth a mafia bullet. You cause so much disruption regardless of alignment it's no wonder everyone calls you hypnotoad.

We kill gambit man today. He ninja voted ET yesterday and he's said nothing. Eat shit and die, scum.

##vote Gambitx32

and I've got that a lot. I take the neutral stance on wether or not I'm going to die n1 as an improvement because I was told to not talk about it anymore A LOT.

+ Show Spoiler [#3, about the wbg stuff and the "…] +

On June 04 2012 08:47 Toadesstern wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 04 2012 08:34 HiroPro wrote:
EBWOP: My formatting is all screwed up.


On June 04 2012 00:29 risk.nuke wrote:
@Hiro: Will I need to repeat every little thing so that your tiny brain can puzzle it together. I posted additional reasons for why zephirdd is a good lynch. It was not a new case because zephirdd already had a case on him.


There's no need to be rude. You never mention what parts of my case or talismania's reads or Radfield's reads on Zephirdd you agree with. The reasons that you mention have nothing to do with whether or not he is mafia. You are being extremely inactive and not making any proper reads or cases of your own. Don't expect me to treat you like confirmed town.


I agree with Radfield. I don't find the "going to be there d2" scummy but both the push on me (the uneven nature of it, especially when I look at people like Sbrubbles who also pushed me but did it very differently) and the really strange accusation on WBG (especially when Toad attempted to use this in his case against prplhz) are scummy. Toad's response to my questioning on the WBG part of his case against prplhz was bad, especially since he misrepresents prplhz (says that prplhz continued to push for WBG lynch), when in fact that was not the case at all.

Zephirdd and risk.nuke are both looking a little weird to me, but Toad's behavior is not only very scummy, but has clear mafia motives.

##Vote: Toadesstern (I will not be voting in the actual thread until much closer to the deadline)

I never included it in my own case.. I said what Prplhz said about WBG is a null because you could say the same thing about at least 5 other people.
I said the 24-hour thing however IS weird.
And that was what? 24 into the game with half the thread not posting? Yeah that's got to be a really strong post ...

Show nested quote +
On June 04 2012 08:35 Radfield wrote:
On June 04 2012 08:20 Toadesstern wrote:
Ok if I am referring to Day2 show me the big post on d2 I was referring to on d2...

Here's a little quote from WBG from LV after I said I'm probably going to die n1:
On May 30 2012 09:48 wherebugsgo wrote:
Shut up Toad you're not worth a mafia bullet. You cause so much disruption regardless of alignment it's no wonder everyone calls you hypnotoad.

We kill gambit man today. He ninja voted ET yesterday and he's said nothing. Eat shit and die, scum.

##vote Gambitx32

and I've got that a lot. I take the neutral stance on wether or not I'm going to die n1 as an improvement because I was told to not talk about it anymore A LOT.



Allow me to remove the irrelevent parts of your post and leave the only relevant bit:

On June 04 2012 08:20 Toadesstern wrote:
Ok if I am referring to Day2 show me the big post on d2 I was referring to on d2...


OK, that's much easier to read. You are trying to tell me that when you said D2, you were actually referring to the end of night 1.... right....

On June 02 2012 10:16 Toadesstern wrote:
got ninja'ed
About sbrubbles: I'll tell you once d2 has started for obvious reasons, sry.


'once day 2 has started'

'once day 2 has started'

'once day 2 has started'

How does 'once day 2 has started', mean 'the end of night 1'.

I know it sucks when you caught in a scum-slip, but take solace in the fact that it was only the icing on the cake. I was leaning strong scum on you before I even found that.


Because it's still referring to my post I did about prplhz? Because YOU will read it once d2 has started because I'm doing it right at the deadline. Wtf is this about. You even pointed at the post I did (the case on prplhz) AT THE DEADLINE and NOT on D2 and yet you keep assuming I am referrign to some not existing post on d2?

+ Show Spoiler [#4, why I changed my "style"…] +
On June 04 2012 09:41 Toadesstern wrote:
Yes I am attacking you because I am mad at you for telling peolpe I scumslipped when I did no such thing.

I already gave all the reasoning there is to explain why nothing you said about me is alignment indicating and the scumslip just isn't a scumslip.
Here's a funny sidenote: I actually had "see you d2 if I survive" written in the preview box in those 2 comments you quoted
+ Show Spoiler +

On June 03 2012 00:35 Toadesstern wrote:
Okay back and I know I promised I would talk about who those 2 guys are I mentioned and why they are mafia but I realized I was retarded when I said that. See you d2

and
On June 02 2012 10:16 Toadesstern wrote:
got ninja'ed
About sbrubbles: I'll tell you once d2 has started for obvious reasons, sry.

checked it and decided to just post "once d2 has started" without the "if I make it" or "if I survve" part because as mentioned wbg attacked me HEAVILY just 24hours (?) prior to that in my other game.
I already quoted the part but here is it again:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2012 09:48 wherebugsgo wrote:
Shut up Toad you're not worth a mafia bullet. You cause so much disruption regardless of alignment it's no wonder everyone calls you hypnotoad.

[...]


You think something like that has no influence on how I post? I changed it to that neutral "see you d2" one ON PURPOSE not because I had information of wether or not I would do n1 but because I got a shitton of posts like the one wbg did just RECENTLY. Recently as in 24 hours prior to the post I made.

Yes I should have said "I'll post 10 secs prior to the deadline" instead of "on d2" but there is no post on d2 so obviously I am referring to the post I did on the DEADLINE when talking about my big post that I'm about to make. I also told you that this time I'm going to ninja you, which is just again another tell that I never intended to post it d2. How should I know how to ninja you when I was not talking about the deadline?


Why are you telling me I haven't answered those issues? I answered every single one of them


You just proved my point right there with your 4 quotes. 1 is a defense against the case as a whole, and 3 focus on the "scumslip". The key word is "focus". You linger on the scumslip even though no one at the time expressed a scum read on you because they felt particularly compelled by the slip.
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
June 04 2012 19:39 GMT
#549
On June 05 2012 04:03 slOosh wrote:
You just proved my point right there with your 4 quotes. 1 is a defense against the case as a whole, and 3 focus on the "scumslip". The key word is "focus". You linger on the scumslip even though no one at the time expressed a scum read on you because they felt particularly compelled by the slip.

Of the 4 quotes Toad has mentioned, the last one has a timestamp of:
On June 04 2012 09:41 Toadesstern wrote:

Compared to
On June 04 2012 21:13 Kurumi wrote:
On June 05 2012 00:32 Radfield wrote:


Additionally, Rad never said that the slip was the crux of his case at all. Strongest point =/= basis.
Toad is misinterpreting things.
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
June 04 2012 20:30 GMT
#555
On June 05 2012 04:56 prplhz wrote:
@slOosh You are voting Toadesstern more so because of his defence than because of Radfield's case. You point out that he is focusing too much on the scumslip even though people aren't taking that seriously and that he is rambling about irrelevant stuff such as team balance.

I think these are poor reasons for voting Toadesstern.

Townies will explain their actions, and if the scumslip just requires more explanation than the rest then so be it. You seem to think that it's a scum tell that he didn't analyse the thread for what people were mostly angry with him about, and then address that the hardest. I would say that that would be a scummy thing to do. He addressed all points in Radfield's case, and it's not like the scumslip isn't convincing anybody, it's convinced Radfield, Kurumi, and you. The rambling about team balance is a bit weird but it looks genuine enough to me. Townies don't want to get lynched either.

Fact is that even if he is scum, it was a slip. He didn't intend on it himself. He even has a story about how he considered that very line several times and how something someone else said in another game convinced him about whatever. This looks quite townie to me. I think that if scum are worried about a line, then they just god damn delete it, problem solved. He obviously dwelt at that line for some time and yet he ended up writing it even though scum are usually very paranoid. They think everything they write is scummy because they're inherently biased because they know that they're scum!

So, do you really think that Toadesstern is scum just because he apparently addressed the scumslip a little harder than the rest of the points and because he started rambling a bit? What about everything else he did in this game, has that been scummy or is that null to you?

Where are you getting the impression that the scumslip is why I think he is scum?

This thread is on the lower side of post count. After Radfield's one time response against Toad's initial defense, Toad responds by specifically pointing out the scumslip. It is he himself who brings all the focus and attention on this point. It's only then that Radfield bites and they have that back and forth. This isn't a matter of his inability to discern what people's major suspicions on him are - because there aren't any in the thread yet! He is selectively choosing what to respond to - e.g. from this post by Radfield, he only responds to the third point.

You seem to be doing the thing that Toad is doing and reading out of context. At the time no one expressed that the scumslip was the most damning aspect of the case.
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
June 04 2012 21:03 GMT
#567
On June 02 2012 10:09 kitaman27 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 02 2012 10:08 Bluelightz wrote:
CORRECTION. Navillus or any other person needs 7 votes to be lynched


Ignore the rambling fool! OP was wrong due to copying that noob greymist. We won't change the setup with such short notice. Six votes still required :p

I interpret this to mean 5 (10/2 = 5 rounded up is 5).
##Vote: Toadesstern
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
June 04 2012 21:04 GMT
#568
Right now there's 3 on him (Kurumi, Radfield & I), and its lynch lock with 5 votes needed to lynch.
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
June 04 2012 21:33 GMT
#587
Yum yum yum. Alright we get a freebie poison in the form of majority + 1 or mayoral lynch. Actually any of the poisons minus the concealed flip looks ok. So it becomes a question of which poison hurts us more in the late game?
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
June 04 2012 21:34 GMT
#589
The implicit thought and reasoning being that we all lynch risk.nuke tomorrow.
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
June 04 2012 21:57 GMT
#595
I don't think there has been a single player who hasn't expressed their desire to lynch risk.nuke. In fact the main resistance from yesterday's Toad lynch was the alternate risk.nuke lynch. Zephirdd why do you think that getting a majority will be difficult? Could you explain your line of thinking?
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