EPTBang Bang Mafia 2 - Page 40
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MrZentor
United States1648 Posts
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
The town can feel free to give input on this, but I want to hear each one of you tell me why I should kill the other. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
It would of been analytical gold for me, but I'm sure I wouldn't live until it became useful if I tried it. | ||
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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
if im wrong, he will probably shoot me himself lol | ||
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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
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payl
11 Posts
On June 12 2012 23:17 MrZentor wrote: RoL is most likely miller, as I doubt the mafia would make up something like that; the only suspicious thing is that now he appears exactly like a normal mafia goon (appears red and can't shoot), we might want to kill him in the future if we don't kill anybody who has the gun stealing role. Originally, I was leaning toward Gonzaw being scum, but his posts have gotten more townie. However, he's still the most suspicious person, so I agree that we should have him shoot. If we can't find an optimal person to shoot, I would encourage him to shoot into risk.nuke, Kenpachi, and payl. Obviously we wouldn't allow him to choose who he shoots. On June 14 2012 11:17 MrZentor wrote: RoL talked about all the downsides of claiming millers, then claimed to be a miller. + Show Spoiler + On June 12 2012 09:50 marvellosity wrote: gonzaw, you've just made me read all the setup speculation on Millers. Damn thee. There is so much I do not like about the claim. Green text: Outlines in some depth how little benefit there is to Miller claiming in this setup. He calls the benefit a 'very niche' scenario. Red text: Having outlined why it's barely beneficial if at all to claim Miller, he leaps into categorically saying no-one should give miller claims any shit. Claims at the end he 'outlined all the reasons'. All the reasons? He clarified himself it would only help in a 'very niche scenario'. What gives? He then says mafia have no reason to fakeclaim miller. He's actively pushing this to discredit the notion. Blue text: Also see post below, but this looks like an attempt to halt any discussion of his miller claim. Because we're so busy on Night 0, right? Again with the blue text, pushing the idea that talking about his claim is a bad thing. To the bold and underlined: twice he says his claim is not a big deal. More language in the middle with 'or killing me, whatever'. Basically totally flippant and acting unconcerned about it. Look at the change in tone! From his original claim with his "hey, I guess I'll claim miller" casual attitude and subsequent post with the 'whatevers' and 'it's not a big deal' he fucking jumps down Toad's throat. Now he's again pushing the idea that even talking about his claim is a bad thing. He admits here that he forsaw people being suspicious of the claim. Yet in his original post, the only 'benefit' he saw was with a very niche day 5 cop scenario. RoL said elsewhere in his filter that we should be working off behavioural analysis. I agree. I'm not questioning the claim because he claimed Miller, I'm questioning how he's gone about it. Scum. He claimed to have his gun taken away, which is really suspicious as it sets him up to look exactly like a mafia goon (appears red and can't shoot), and it seems improbable that either mafia or sk would have this power. These things coupled with the fact that he hasn't been around for the entire night makes me doubt his claim. Would anybody else care to comment? Entire change of stance based on pithy reasoning which doesn't support the change in opinion. And even better, the later post which ends with "would anybody else care to comment?" showing that he's afraid to commit to the accusation and is instead throwing it out there and seeing if it gains traction. Scum. On June 12 2012 23:40 MrZentor wrote: His insistence on waiting until most of the day passes before shooting. This seems like the genuine thing a mafia wouldn't say. + Show Spoiler + What if all of us claim if we have a gun to shoot or not? Like said before, most blue roles are not that strong (the good ones don't know their sanity); but the VT/Miller roles are the strongest since they control the "lynch", and are our only way to win this game (other than a random vigilante out there). I think they did it like this: 1)Everybody claims if they have a gun or not 2)The people that claimed they have a gun, take turns each day to shoot the most scummy one from the pool of the guys that don't have a gun Here we can use that "random thingy" site Palmar made for iGrok's game (if someone's good enough to copy the script and shit, maybe make it public): Each day we make a list of all the people that claimed they have a gun, and randomize it. That way we randomly choose who to shoot from that list. That way mafia can't try to fake-claim that they have a gun and manipulate their way to never shoot at all, because the process of choosing who to shoot is random so if it's their turn to shoot they can't get away with it (this will disencourage scum fake-claiming they have a gun). This is the beauty from the plan: Yes, all the VTs/Millers will be outed for SK/scum, and so will the blues.... ...however the blues will be mostly intact and survive the whole game. Why? Because in the pool of blues most of the scum (goon and RBers, etc) lurk. If they shoot blues at night, that pool is reduced so they have more chances of being shot at day. Not only that, but because of what I said earlier they'll most likely shoot VTs (check that post I made). So blues are free to make their actions at night (not all of them can be RBed, plus they shouldn't claim their roles either) to help us with what we can, while we systematically kill those scum in their group. Once we kill all scum in the "blue" group (3 of them right?), we are set, leave the rest of those blues alone and take a look at the VT/Miller claims to get the GF and the SK. Since only non-gunners will get shot at day, and only gunners will get shot at night by scum, the blues in the non-gunners group can use: 1)Their medic saves on the gunners 2)Their watcher/tracker/cop checks on the gunners 1)Because those are the only ones getting shot at night, so they have a greater chance to save them 2)Because once all the scum from the non-gunners are killed, we need to find the SK/GF. If blues check those players, then it's more likely they can find the SK/GF for us so we have it easier later. That was the way it would work in the 1st game. Now that I think about it the "SK or scum can steal guns at night" thing if RoL says the truth can change it a little bit What do you guys think? Any way to improve it if it's worth it? Or is it unworthy? This is an excellent plan, which I believe would give town a great chance of winning; I doubt a mafia would suggest it. Also, something I found along the way. Chaoser wanted Gonzaw to shoot at dawn, effectively killing 24 hours of discussion. That's exactly what scum would want to happen. This post is 100% bullshit. "This seems like the genuine thing a mafia wouldn't say." What the fuck does that mean? And "This is an excellent plan, which I believe would give town a great chance of winning; I doubt a mafia would suggest it."? The plan was terrible...outing which townies could shoot and which could not? In any other context I would have taken MrZentor's comment to be sarcasm. And then another single sentence trying to paint chaoser with a bit of guilt for something that is frankly, trivial. I also have my eye on Toads, but I'll write more tomorrow. | ||
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payl
11 Posts
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payl
11 Posts
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supersoft
Germany3729 Posts
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supersoft
Germany3729 Posts
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supersoft
Germany3729 Posts
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Dirkzor
Denmark1944 Posts
First of, lets kill scum. I present: MrZentor! I was on to him early on: read here But after that it have just gotten worse. On June 12 2012 23:40 MrZentor wrote: His insistence on waiting until most of the day passes before shooting. This seems like the genuine thing a mafia wouldn't say. + Show Spoiler + What if all of us claim if we have a gun to shoot or not? Like said before, most blue roles are not that strong (the good ones don't know their sanity); but the VT/Miller roles are the strongest since they control the "lynch", and are our only way to win this game (other than a random vigilante out there). I think they did it like this: 1)Everybody claims if they have a gun or not 2)The people that claimed they have a gun, take turns each day to shoot the most scummy one from the pool of the guys that don't have a gun Here we can use that "random thingy" site Palmar made for iGrok's game (if someone's good enough to copy the script and shit, maybe make it public): Each day we make a list of all the people that claimed they have a gun, and randomize it. That way we randomly choose who to shoot from that list. That way mafia can't try to fake-claim that they have a gun and manipulate their way to never shoot at all, because the process of choosing who to shoot is random so if it's their turn to shoot they can't get away with it (this will disencourage scum fake-claiming they have a gun). This is the beauty from the plan: Yes, all the VTs/Millers will be outed for SK/scum, and so will the blues.... ...however the blues will be mostly intact and survive the whole game. Why? Because in the pool of blues most of the scum (goon and RBers, etc) lurk. If they shoot blues at night, that pool is reduced so they have more chances of being shot at day. Not only that, but because of what I said earlier they'll most likely shoot VTs (check that post I made). So blues are free to make their actions at night (not all of them can be RBed, plus they shouldn't claim their roles either) to help us with what we can, while we systematically kill those scum in their group. Once we kill all scum in the "blue" group (3 of them right?), we are set, leave the rest of those blues alone and take a look at the VT/Miller claims to get the GF and the SK. Since only non-gunners will get shot at day, and only gunners will get shot at night by scum, the blues in the non-gunners group can use: 1)Their medic saves on the gunners 2)Their watcher/tracker/cop checks on the gunners 1)Because those are the only ones getting shot at night, so they have a greater chance to save them 2)Because once all the scum from the non-gunners are killed, we need to find the SK/GF. If blues check those players, then it's more likely they can find the SK/GF for us so we have it easier later. That was the way it would work in the 1st game. Now that I think about it the "SK or scum can steal guns at night" thing if RoL says the truth can change it a little bit What do you guys think? Any way to improve it if it's worth it? Or is it unworthy? This is an excellent plan, which I believe would give town a great chance of winning; I doubt a mafia would suggest it. Also, something I found along the way. Chaoser wanted Gonzaw to shoot at dawn, effectively killing 24 hours of discussion. That's exactly what scum would want to happen. In this post he already starts to distance himself from any potential Gonzaw death (because he knew he was town). Calling gonzaw plan "This seems like the genuine thing a mafia wouldn't say." is bullcrap since scum always come up with plans so we discuss the plan instead of actaul scumhunting. Its also easy to make it look like you are contributing when posting plans and talking about said plans. (See RoL in storm) He also starts a small "Chaoser is scum" notion throughout the post because chaoser is pressuring gonzaw saying he should shoot now. But chaoser had a pretty legit reason: On June 12 2012 13:31 chaoser wrote: Bingo. I think he's scummy and also unlikely to be SK and so why not kill two birds with one stone. So no reason for zentor to call chaoser scum. Getting the SK so early because of technical rules would have been great at the same time pressuring someone chaoser thought was scum. And note that Chaoser flipped town. Also note that chaoser posts was before any claim from RoL being shot and saved thus making his logic quite good. + Show Spoiler [Zentor trying to get a chaoser wagon g…] + On June 12 2012 23:46 MrZentor wrote: Gonzaw should shoot chaoser. On June 12 2012 23:52 MrZentor wrote: Chaoser said that he didn't want to wait 24 hours and that he wanted Gonzaw to shoot a few minutes after the day post. Check your facts. On June 13 2012 00:01 MrZentor wrote: Do you agree that Chaoser is scummy? Then Gonzaw gets shot. Kita comes in and calls us all idiots for killing him:+ Show Spoiler [Kita's post for reference] + On June 13 2012 10:50 kitaman27 wrote: I was writing up a nice long post about how gonzaw should be the last person we should shoot and I got ninja'd by like 3 min. -_- Why shoot the claimed cop day one when he could either tie up the roleblocker in a watcher setup, take a night hit, or provide an additional check. You can all yell at me for complaining after the flip, but that's a poor decision. I'll stop by tomorrow evening before the night post with thoughts for day two. On June 13 2012 12:07 MrZentor wrote: I don't see how anybody could have thought Gonzaw was scum after that claim. The balls of steel was the sort of detail which sum doesn't have the time or energy to fabricate. Thats some weak ass reasoning as to why killing gonzaw was stupid? "lolz why didn't you idiots beleive him? He wrote balls of steel!" (<-- is my own interpretation) I think toad also touched on why this is stupid. Scum is sometimes given fake roleclaims that look like they were made by the host. So the BoS thing is total irrelevant. But look of it connects with Zentor distancing him from a townie flipping gonzaw. After chaoser flipped town Zentor needed someone new to push as scum. Why not go back to one already being discussed and in focus? RoL! With this: On June 14 2012 11:17 MrZentor wrote: RoL talked about all the downsides of claiming millers, then claimed to be a miller. + Show Spoiler + On June 12 2012 09:50 marvellosity wrote: gonzaw, you've just made me read all the setup speculation on Millers. Damn thee. There is so much I do not like about the claim. Green text: Outlines in some depth how little benefit there is to Miller claiming in this setup. He calls the benefit a 'very niche' scenario. Red text: Having outlined why it's barely beneficial if at all to claim Miller, he leaps into categorically saying no-one should give miller claims any shit. Claims at the end he 'outlined all the reasons'. All the reasons? He clarified himself it would only help in a 'very niche scenario'. What gives? He then says mafia have no reason to fakeclaim miller. He's actively pushing this to discredit the notion. Blue text: Also see post below, but this looks like an attempt to halt any discussion of his miller claim. Because we're so busy on Night 0, right? Again with the blue text, pushing the idea that talking about his claim is a bad thing. To the bold and underlined: twice he says his claim is not a big deal. More language in the middle with 'or killing me, whatever'. Basically totally flippant and acting unconcerned about it. Look at the change in tone! From his original claim with his "hey, I guess I'll claim miller" casual attitude and subsequent post with the 'whatevers' and 'it's not a big deal' he fucking jumps down Toad's throat. Now he's again pushing the idea that even talking about his claim is a bad thing. He admits here that he forsaw people being suspicious of the claim. Yet in his original post, the only 'benefit' he saw was with a very niche day 5 cop scenario. RoL said elsewhere in his filter that we should be working off behavioural analysis. I agree. I'm not questioning the claim because he claimed Miller, I'm questioning how he's gone about it. Scum. He claimed to have his gun taken away, which is really suspicious as it sets him up to look exactly like a mafia goon (appears red and can't shoot), and it seems improbable that either mafia or sk would have this power. These things coupled with the fact that he hasn't been around for the entire night makes me doubt his claim. Would anybody else care to comment? Zentor didn't actually write anything new about this. Well maybe the fact that RoL wasn't active during the night. Thats the only thing that have changed since Zentor wrote this: On June 12 2012 23:17 MrZentor wrote: RoL is most likely miller, as I doubt the mafia would make up something like that; the only suspicious thing is that now he appears exactly like a normal mafia goon (appears red and can't shoot), we might want to kill him in the future if we don't kill anybody who has the gun stealing role. Originally, I was leaning toward Gonzaw being scum, but his posts have gotten more townie. However, he's still the most suspicious person, so I agree that we should have him shoot. If we can't find an optimal person to shoot, I would encourage him to shoot into risk.nuke, Kenpachi, and payl. Obviously we wouldn't allow him to choose who he shoots. It doesn't make sense that Zentor should change his opinion about RoL for no reason at all. During the last part of this night Zentor also used the known scum tactic call: "No I don't! But he did! Look!" On June 14 2012 12:14 MrZentor wrote: I haven't been lurking for days. -.- If you want to find somebody who has been lurking for days, look at Kenpachi. "I'm not lurking but kenpachi is!" On June 14 2012 12:36 MrZentor wrote: It means he can't shoot for one day. And MZ, how is pointing out how lurky RoL has been and how that's terribly suspicious behavior for a person who claimed miller not original? Speaking of original content, I'd like some from you. Look at your last posts from the night. + Show Spoiler + On June 13 2012 12:10 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Check it out, Kita AND zentor show up to tell us how dumb we are. Would have been just snazzy if you gentleman had actually been around during the day. On June 14 2012 04:37 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Тебе надо говорит по-английский On June 14 2012 05:56 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: atm I'm at school getting ready for my last final so no lol. I still wanna kill zentor and the rastaban case looks decent from what I can tell. On June 14 2012 12:11 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: So zentor you've been lurking for days and when you come back this is what you decide to comment on? ALSO NO MORE FINALS!!! On June 14 2012 12:13 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: To clarify that last post, nicely done commenting on something that has been discussed to death. What about rastaban? On June 14 2012 12:23 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: I'm off to play some celebratory LoL, I'll check the thread when I'm done. I'm really liking the idea of having rastaban shoot zentor, thoughts? What can a reader get from these posts? That you want me dead, you like the Rastaban case, and you think I lurked a bunch. "I'm not posting anything original. But neither are you!" I say we kill Zentor today! | ||
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Dirkzor
Denmark1944 Posts
I forgot to mention that Zentor post calling us idiots for killing gonzaw only came AFTER Kita's. It's always easier to be number 2 pointing out stuff as scum then to be the first. | ||
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Dirkzor
Denmark1944 Posts
On June 14 2012 14:55 supersoft wrote: actually i think a mass roleclaim would be quite beneficial. discuss. No? How is the any different from the plan that gonzaw proposed. You out the blues. Some scum will fakeclaim they are blue and some will fakeclaim they are VT. We have to get lucky in order to pressure the right scum amoung the VT claimers to catch them while most likely shooting into our own blues. That and giving all the information to the SK/scum. Info like "How many VT's are left" "which type of blues are left" That and the GF will be uncatchable through a mass claim... | ||
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supersoft
Germany3729 Posts
i start. i am VT surprise surprise. massclaim is good i got it. | ||
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supersoft
Germany3729 Posts
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Dirkzor
Denmark1944 Posts
I just don't understand what you want to archeive with a mass claim? | ||
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supersoft
Germany3729 Posts
having their claims would help me with my further judgement. the downside that scum knows our blues isn't that bad in this modus because a medic for example could be insane etc. | ||
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