EPTMagic: The Gathering Mini Mafia
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Tunkeg
Norway1235 Posts
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Tunkeg
Norway1235 Posts
On May 16 2012 01:08 Acid~ wrote: /in This will be my first TL mafia (but not my first mafia) Welcome :D Just some friendly advice. This isn't like live mafia, irc mafia or sc2 mafia. The game drags on for days and weeks, and you should read every post at least once, and stay active in thread. There are some general guides, if you want to read them, but more then anything play the game the way you want it, and don't be afraid to tell us your opinions. You will probably be pushed hard if people think you are wrong about something or if they think you are mafia. There is a big chance someone will tell you that you are stupid and useless. Don't take that personal, just keep playing your game. GL HF! | ||
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Tunkeg
Norway1235 Posts
On May 16 2012 10:36 EchelonTee wrote: ^ inb4 smurf I like you more now Tunkeg <3 Its good to be loved, hehe  | ||
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Anyways I have decided to play this game in a different manner then before. And if I can make it work I will continue in the games to follow. Previous games The Tunkeg of old was all about reaction based reads, which meant that I would provoke certain players to get a reaction. I would have a hypothesis about how they would respond as town and how they would respond as scum, and work off off that. The way I would do this was: A: Suggest some kind of plan (or taking sides, and arguing for or against if someone else proposed a plan). B: Picking fights. Why change it up? Even though I think it was a great way of finding scum for me. It wasn’t necessarily good for town. Many times it took up to much space, and some might even label it as disruptive. It have also led me close to being lynched many times, and often put me on the defensive straight from the get go. Constantly defending yourself makes it hard to put effort into proper scumhunting. So what am I changing it to? My goal in these games is to figure people out. Sure I definitely want to win, I hate losing, but more than winning I want to be right. To be right I will need to focus on my analysis, instead of fighting. What this means is: 1. I will not be posting as much as before. I will try to post better and longer posts though. And less one liners and useless crap. I will try to format my posts better. 2. I will control my temper. I will not be getting into any fights, I won’t be starting any and I will try not to get pulled into one. This also means I won’t be spending a lot of time defending my actions. If my posts are scummy you lynch me, if my posts aren’t you don’t . 3. I will try to post better analysis, and avoid insulting the ones I analyze. Again, I will try to post quality posts, and not many posts, meaning I won’t spend my time defending my analysis, I can clarify, but I won’t argue with nitpickers. Mafia Bio: Played my first game of Mafia in Student Mafia back in desember 2011 (the only game I won). Have played 4 games since. I have never been lynched in any games, and won the only game where I survived until the end. I see myself as good at finding scum, and have in my past 4 games never had my final vote on town after day 1. My biggest weakness is my analysis posts, my language and grammar in general and my temper. Links to previous games: Student Mafia– Town (vanilla) – Win. Newbie Mafia II– Town (Vanilla) – Loss. BC's Arkham City– Town (Veteran)- Loss. TL Mafia LI– Town (Vanilla) – Draw. I'm a cop you idiot Mafia– Town (Cop)- Loss. | ||
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Tunkeg
Norway1235 Posts
@VE What do yout hink of WBG's helpfull opening post? I ask you because you got the most experience with him. As a standard normal player I would put this as a pro-town. With WBG I am unsure, as he is thought of as one of the best scumplayers on TL, and I think he is capable of leveling us with these kinds of posts. @WBG If you were a dayvig and had to lynch someone right now, who would it be and why? @Acrofalis You don't like my opening post, and thats ok. ET is comming to my defense, and are voting for you. What is your take on this situation? Do you think ET have any motives for defending me, and if so what are they? @NT What do you think about Acrofalis play thus far? @ET Not to derail your arguemnent with Acrofalis to much, but what do you get out of Zealos posts thus far? @Zealos I can see why someone would throw out a random vote on someone to pressure as number one (even if I don't think it is a great way of pressuring).You do this as number two on VE, for no reason. And next you are sheeping ET on his Acrofalis vote. Why did you vote VE? And could elaborate why you are voting Acrofalis? | ||
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Acrofalis/Marvellosity: Leaning town based on Acrofalis aggression while he was in game. He tried to get this game going, and tried to apply some pressure. EchelonTee: Leaning town. He went into a fight with Acrofalis from the get go, and haven't been afraid to stick his head out. Zealos Get some scumvibes off him. He started the game by voting VE as number two, without a good reason. He claims it to be a joke later (which it might be). He then proceeds to vote Acrofales based on ET's case, and because of meta, basicly sheeping ET. The rest of his filter seems very empty, even though he got more post than most in this game. Some townpoints for actually bother to answer questions. Mattchew He might be one of those I called out for not posting earlier, that is a scum. I don't know what he is trying to do, but if his postingstyle continues this way he will be disruptive townie at best, and sabotaging scum at worst. Leaning scum for now. Nova_Terra Leaning scum. He was active at the start, but unlike Acrofalis his attempts at pushing seems more forced, and with no real weight behind it. His whole postingstyle seems very non-commital and gives me scumvibes. Also Navillus need to get in the thread and do some more. His vote on WBG is the only thing he have done. And it was done without much reasoning, and in my opinion strange reasoning. PS: I know you guys don't like list. But I want to do lists so bare with me. PS 2: This is not an analysis post. It is a read post. When I am ready to put my vote down on someone I will try to make a good case/analysis on them. Exception is if there is a great case on them that I agree with, then I will be open about sheeping it, and probably just add some of my own reasoning to it. | ||
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I will devide it into three post because it became such a wall of text. If I have missed any questions make me aware of it and I will answer. On May 22 2012 00:31 HiroPro wrote: There are two things that make me suspicious of Tunkeg. The first is the timing of Tunkeg's "I'm going to change it up" post. Either town or scum are capable of saying that they want to change their playstyle. If you look at this game, ET also says that he wants to change his play. But he does this BEFORE roles are out. The second is the way that Tunkeg responds to Acrofales's post against him: HE DOESN'T RESPOND. All he does is go "lolol someone coming to my defense" and try to shift attention onto ET "Do you think ET have any motives for defending me". @marvel Yea, Navilius's tone is very apologetic and wishywashy. The vote is dumb also. What do you think of Tunkeg? HiroPro you say you want me to respond to your case on me. But I don't see what you want me to answer. Your case is there for everyone to see, and there is nothing for me to write about it. Its your opinion about my play, and I am fine with that. As I said in my opening post I won't spend any time defending myself. My post will speak forthemselves. If you want me to respond to something specify what you want me to answer, and post questions where you want me to answer and not rethorical questions as some have posted. | ||
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On May 22 2012 05:37 Navillus wrote: Okaaay so my WBG vote was a joke, I do not actually think it's a good idea to lynch one of our 2 vets on that basis alone and I am not really of the opinion that advice is an automatic scum-tell, it'd be nice to have a little benefit of the doubt on me not being an idiot. Next ##Unvote ##Vote: Mattchew As far as I can tell he's just posting with flavor text from mtg cards, if that continues I don't really care if he's scum or town it makes him impossible to read, doesn't let him contribute, and makes for a really shitty atmosphere. Mattchew stop it. On N_T yes VE and WBG I'd say he's using pretty bad method of scumhunting/analysis and his vote is for a dumb reason, but that doesn't make him scum and aside from clear-cut examples of someone being useless or disruptive (such as restricting their posts to text from a card game) it's a bad idea to lynch someone for bad play, in my experience it's rarely a scumtell and depending on how they're playing badly it can be more of a town tell. Tunkeg you asked a bunch of questions earlier, most of them were ignored, was there any point to them? Why don't you care that people didn't answer you/why aren't you following up? Also why post that list, if you have scum reads why aren't you just pressuring them instead of telling them, and how does telling everyone your town-reads do anything but let scum know who you think is townie and so light them up as targets? Holy spam batman! NT scum or town please stop with multiple one or two line posts in a row, it's distracting and makes the thread harder to read through, consolidate. The questions I have asked have for the most part been answered, either directly or indirectly. VE answered me directly. WBG answered indirectly when he said he wanted to see NT killed. Acrofalis left the game before he had answered. NT answered directly. Zealos answered me directly. ET is the only one who haven't answered. This might be because he didn't notice it, or because he don't want to. So the answer to the secound part of your question is that I for the most have gotten answers. I have registered what they answered and if they answered for later use. I post that list because I want to be open with my reads. I know the general consensus of TL Mafia is that you shouldn't post read lists, I don't necessarily agree. I think a list like mine makes it easier for you to hold me accountable for my reads. You know where I stand, and you can easily reference it if you are making a case on me. Telling my townreads doesn't make a difference to scum, if I see someone as town, they probably do so even more. If they don't they probably won't bother with them anyways. Sure if everyone in the game posts reads like this, it will be easy for scum to pick out the one town sees as most townie and night kill them, but in return they would have to post their own reads giving them less wiggleroom. So I will continue posting my reads like this. | ||
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Tunkeg
Norway1235 Posts
On May 22 2012 05:37 Nova_Terra wrote: where the frick is katina Tunkeg what about my play do you find noncommittal? Its a general feel I have about your play. You start off with a "pressure" vote on VE, without any pressure to it (reasoning: I hear VE's post are bitch to deal with, or so I hear). You post a some about WBG's first post, warning us. You tell the thread I am scum for my first post, without any real follow up. No pressure, no vote, just throwing you opinion out there. You vote froggy for mention that your meta is bored as townie and hyper as scum. You have posted alot of one-liners (read: short posts), and you are basicly all over the place, with alot of post, but little substance. I think your play is in all very noncommital. For the rest of the questions you have thrown at me I see them as rethorical, and not something you want me to answer. | ||
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- He lurked through the entire start of the game. - When he bothered to post it was all trollposts. - I see his play as totally anti-town. And I can't see a reason to why a townie would behave this way, unless they don't care about the game at all. Am I sold on the fact that he is scum. Not necessarily. But together with NT and Zealos he is the one I have the scummiest feeling about. The difference between Mattchew and these guys is that they are actually posting thing that you can analyse, and this can either strengthen the suspicioun on them or lessen it. For Mattchew he will probably keep this up the entire game, and whether town or scum really mess up the scumhunting environment. So I want to lynch Mattchew because he is as likely to be scum as the other two, but losing him if he is town is far better than losing the other two if they are town. There is one arguement for not lynching him though, and that is: Would really scum draw this much attention to themself? Most likely not, but in TL Mafia where disruptive players never get lynched it would be a viable strategy. ##Vote Mattchew | ||
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@ET: Why do you want acid, jeb or katina lynched? Give me some reasons. On May 22 2012 14:18 EchelonTee wrote: acid, jeb, katina, or no lynch i think one of those should happen @VE: Please elaborate on why sharing your reads with Bugs is bad for balance reasons. If you are town why wouldn't you do anything in your power to win the game regardless of what you think is balanced or not? On May 22 2012 16:27 VisceraEyes wrote: Bugs, I loathe to talk about my reads with you for balance reasons, but everyone else has forsaken us. How confident are YOU that Nova is scum? I feel like he went limp kinda quick, but aside from that has at least quit posting scummily. Whether that's just because he's quit posting is obviously up for debate. Combined with the fact that he's got so many people going "Meta him bro" and the fact that he's all "Meta me bro" and it just looks really bad. But something doesn't feel right - like, he seems like TOO easy a target, ya know? @HiroPro: Who is your number one scumread and why? If it is me, who is the next biggest and why? @zelbade Care to answer the same question as I asked HiroPro? @acid How do you think WBG, VE and Katina have played thus far? They are all in on a NT case, what do you read from this? | ||
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so ##Unvote: Mattchew ##Vote: Nova_Terra | ||
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So I have changed my mind. I had ET leaning town early on in the game, I was wrong. He is scum, and this is why: 1. He have been trying to appear active while not really being active. His post have mostly consisted of oneliners, soft accusations and defending others. I think his defence om me was for this purpose only. To appear active, get easy townpoints and be able to put down an early vote. Isolated I viewed his arguement with Acrofalis as townie, as he was sticking his head out. In hindsight I see this as mentioned above - a way to appear active. 2. He don't really want to give us his reads. I have asked him for reads two times, he ignores it. Why dodge questions like that if you are town? Sure, he might think they are trivial and not worth spending his time on. But I see refusing to answer questions as scummy. 3. He listed that he would be ok with lynching jeb, acid and Katina without any reason. Between them there are two newbies, who are an easy misslynch because they are inexperienced and Katina, who is famous for being very lurky (at least she have been in all games I have played with her), and is also a player that is easy to get a misslynch on. 4. He voted for jeb just before the deadline (on the deadline actually) without any reason. And in a very suspicious way: "When is the deadline", like he did it on purpose, so that he wouldn't have to post any reasoning to why he voted jeb, and not get hold accountable for it. ET is my number one scumread. Feel free to discuss it or not, especially if you disagree. If you agreeyou are probably better off waiting until after the night is over. Because if ET is scum scumteam will probably lynch someone who agrees to make it less likely he get lynched on day 2. | ||
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I am liking VE for town more and more though. Even if I am not a big fan of his playstyle, I think I have been very capable of reading VE when he have been scum before. I don't think his play this time around is scummy. Mainly because of the target he is pushing and the way he is going at them. Also the fact that he is pushing the same targets as those I view as scummy makes me think he is town. WBG is appearing more and more scummy though. He have without no reasoning at all said he would be ok with killing: NT On May 22 2012 04:22 wherebugsgo wrote: I'm cool with killing nova, since he seems to want to extend joke accusations into real ones for no particular reason. He also isn't using his brain; case in point, this post: Navillus, if I remember correctly, said he wanted to kill me (whether seriously or not, who cares) Nova seemingly wants to jump on any person who is getting traction for a lynch. Namely, since I was gone and Navillus voted me, I was a good choice. Note how Nova never once mentions me before this post. He addresses my posts but expressly avoids saying that he finds my advice post indicative of me being scum or anything like that when I react. On the other hand, people have found Navillus suspicious for his not-so-serious vote on me. While it is a bit suspicious in itself, I find it more suspicious that plenty of people are so willing to kill him based on almost nothing at all. One of those players is nova. On May 22 2012 05:09 wherebugsgo wrote: Nova subscribes to the notion that if you accuse everyone in the game, any accusation against him is OMGUS. If you're town, stop being disruptive and start using your head. Otherwise, you die today. ##vote Nova_Terra Katina (some reasons, not any real reasons though), VE and Mouldy Jeb On May 23 2012 04:52 wherebugsgo wrote: Sorry all, I became really sick overnight. Feeling quite a bit better now, though. I'm fine with killing Katina, VE, and mold man, in that order. Katina normally reads the thread and she usually has more than one read. She also at the very least explains herself to townies. It's clear that she's deliberately ignoring my questions, possibly because she doesn't actually believe in her "case" on Nova (i.e she is scum) By the time I asked Katina the first time how sure she was of Nova being scum I had started to think he was town. Now, it is day 1, and I may be completely wrong about my assessment, but the way the bandwagons have gone today suggest either that both nova and mouldy are town or that one of them is scum. Based on the nova votes just now I'm inclined to think mouldy is scum. Of course, we'll never know the truth unless they flip. As there's not much time left in the day I think we should kill mouldy. If anyone else agrees with me that we should kill Katina or VE, let me know and perhaps we can get a vote switch going. I'll be around till deadline. ##unvote ##vote Mouldy Jeb PS. Anyone notice that Katina says she hates people using the noob card, but hasn't really expressed suspicion of mouldy? (at least, from what I recall) Zealos and Me On May 24 2012 01:15 wherebugsgo wrote: If I had a gun, I'd shoot zealos or Tunkeg. Probably flip a coin really, they're both obviously faking trying to look town. On May 24 2012 06:56 wherebugsgo wrote: Having reread everything there isn't much to say...if I live, then we go from there. If I die, then I'll be glad not to have to read/decipher some of the posts from this game. Zealos and Tunkeg are still good bets to flip scum IMO. Mattchew and Nova are annoying, which could mean anything. VE is sheeping more than normal, which is somewhat scummy. Katina's hard to read but if she's even somewhat transparent and correct about some of her reads then probably isn't scum. I can't even remember half the names of the rest of you, since you're so unimpressionable. Great if you're scum and obviously terrible if you're town. Acid On May 24 2012 17:44 wherebugsgo wrote: Is he gone? <peeks around a corner> Anyway if Acid never responds, we kill him. To make that threat more real, let's turn up the heat. ##vote Acid~ Nova, do you support a lynch of any of Acid, zealos, or Tunkeg? Some of you calls this pressuring. I call this trying to start bandwagons, without being held accountable. I am not great at reading WBG though, I have had him as town many times when he was scum. So he might be playing completely opposite of what I consider normal. But I think WBG is leaning heavy scum, and if he can't come up with a decent case on any of his targets I am all for lynching him today. | ||
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1. That I said I wanted to change my meta. I can understand some of you react to this. And it is a valid point in any analysis of me. 2. That I am posting only to try to look active and that my list of reads and questions are rubbish. This is very opinion based, I think asking question is just as valid a tactic as applying pressure. And to be honest not everyone can be pressured into a response, same way as not everyone will bother answering a question. 3. That I made a case on ET, and he died the same night. I can't see how anyone can read anything into this either for or against me. The point is I could do this as either town or scum, for instance gonzaw did this against all the nighthits in the newbiemafia game I was in, and he was scum. So I think Hiro Pro is town, but wrong town. But there is the possibility that he is pulling the same thing as Katina did on me in BC:AC, tunneling me all game, me believing she was town, when she really was scum. | ||
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On May 25 2012 02:59 VisceraEyes wrote: Katina can I interest you in a thrilling WBG, Nova, Mattchew, Zealos scumteam? This can very well be the scumteam. NT, Mattchew and Zealos where my strongest day one scumreads. And I think you are perfectly right about WBG, I get a stronger and stronger feeling that he is scum. I also find it wierd that Mattchew suddenly start posting, now that you are fireing at WBG. Makes me think that the scumteam have decided that he needs to start posting and help out WBG. So even if these guys are giving you a hard time don't give up VE. They do it because they are scum. | ||
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On May 25 2012 03:52 wherebugsgo wrote: I almost want to kill you just because of this post. I don't actually think you are this dumb. You have wanted to kill me before, without reason as well. If scum want me killed I am fine with it :D | ||
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##Vote wherebugsgo | ||
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On May 25 2012 18:58 marvellosity wrote: Ugh. Sooooo much has gone on since your last post, and this is what you come up with? Really? Yeah, really. Thats all you will be hearing from me for today. Do with it as you please... | ||
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On May 25 2012 19:08 Tunkeg wrote: Yeah, really. Thats all you will be hearing from me for today. Do with it as you please... Or maybe I will post some right before the deadline. We'll see. | ||
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On May 25 2012 19:45 wherebugsgo wrote: because it totally makes sense to make a case on a person right before the LYNCH deadline, right? it still saddens me that I have to consider that you could possibly still be this dumb as town, but I'm going to go with the simpler route and assume you're scum. It won't be a case. don't worry. | ||
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On May 25 2012 19:57 wherebugsgo wrote: Well it's either a DT check or a case, neither of which are believable. Wrong again, there won't be any information that is relevant for todays lynch in it... | ||
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On May 25 2012 20:15 wherebugsgo wrote: Then you have nothing of value. This is true. But I will write it anyways, if what I think (and actually now hope) will happend today happends. | ||
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On May 25 2012 20:23 zelblade wrote: To be fair most of that was a conversation with WBG. Tunkeg does look like scum who has given up though, seems like he isnt even trying anymore. But zealos first. @zealos who is the most likely to flip red today? Good observation. | ||
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On May 25 2012 20:33 wherebugsgo wrote: You hope a townie dies? Hahaha I wanna kill this guy right now Haha, you might say so... | ||
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Yeah, I wouldn't mind getting lynched at all. I think this game have taken the course as many games do, where everyone keep mouthing off about how everyone else is bad, stupid, fucking useless etc etc (I don't care if it is directed towards me or anyone else, for instance the way syllogism played in liars should be frowned upon be the entire community). This is an environment I don't want to play in. It annoys the fuck out of me that you guys aren't capable of playing this game through arguements, but have to resort to namecalling and domination techniques. It actually annoys me to such a degree that I can't read the thread properly, nor play the game properly, and start caring less and less about the game. If TL towns can't deal with badmouthing players ruining the townenvironment the scum will keep dominating. I have told Artonis to do as he please about it. I won't bate you into lynching me as long as you guys don't bate me into writing obvious "LYNCH ME!" stuff. | ||
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On May 26 2012 02:11 Zealos wrote: So, as you guys know, my thoughts on day 1 were.... to put it bluntly, bad. My main first case was against acro, which was valid at the time, however, I think it's pretty clear to everyone that Marvel is a town player, so there was no point checking him. The other player I thought was a bit off was Zel. However, he was being super inactive and lurky at the time, so I expected him to be vigged, and so not worth the check. The reason I did check Hiro, however, is that he was one of the few people who didn't bother questioning me about Jeb. I stand by my decision to vote for him, but it raised a few eyebrows, and for good reason. Hiro on the other hand didn't think twice of it, and was happy to just watch us townies argue between ourselves. When he came out red, I *slightly* overreacted, hence, the moment I saw any reason to pile pressure on him, I took it, and hoped town would do the same. When this didn't happen, I subtly claimed in the hope one of the vets would see it. This is also why I asked earlier, that a vet would look over my filter and I asked "Is my few mafia traits the only thing that sticks out?" in the hope they would notice, and attempt to help me swing the votes over to Hiro. Take from this what you will. I am willing to bet on you being right. ##Unvote wherebugsgo ##Vote Hiro Pro | ||
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On May 26 2012 02:19 zelblade wrote: So the two of you dont find this claim extremely convenient and not a little suspect at all? It might be a scumtrick, but it is more likely that it is a real DT check. Ofcourse there is the chance that it is a framed check or a miller check, and then town is in big shit because we will kill Hiro, who then won't be scum, and Zealos who then is a real DT. But we should at least not kill Zealos this day. | ||
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On May 26 2012 07:55 VisceraEyes wrote: Piss off bugs, I'm just done responding to you entirely. Me and marvel are going to win this for us, because marvel doesn't have to be insulting when he speaks to people. So go ahead and freak out about whether or not I'm scum. I know you're scum, so I'm just going to wait until town sees it too and not worry about it anymore. Hey VE, I am going to sheep my vote on to you. Partly because WBG is a fucking dick, and partly because you are the one that can win us this game. But you are wrong about marvel, he is pretty much as BM as it gets, non the less he is probably town this game. | ||
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On May 26 2012 08:04 marvellosity wrote: I presume Tunkey gets mod-killed now he has a) had a warning for giving up b) called someone a fucking dick Calling for modkills are perfectly fine is it? | ||
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On May 26 2012 08:09 wherebugsgo wrote: lynch all liars. the fucking dick strikes again You want to have WBG modkilled as well the marv? Equality or? | ||
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On May 26 2012 08:09 wherebugsgo wrote: lynch all liars. the fucking dick strikes again This was before you started your BM crusade. And in fact I won't be picking fights, just to not shit up the thread, cause if I were to respond to every insult from you in this game, it would have been 20 pages of shitslining. So I'll leave it at that. I am playing to my winconditions by not replying to you anymore, and by sheeping VE. | ||
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On May 26 2012 08:13 marvellosity wrote: Just for the giggles, I will explain without sarcasm. What did I do? I swore at Matt after he swore at me 3 times in a post What did wbg do? He used your own words in retaliation against a completely unfair insult from you. What did you do? You had a big strop about people being insulting, you basically gave up playing the game, and THEN you outrageously swore at someone without provocation. I get more insulted by WBG's you are stupid remark than being called a dick. So then it must be WBG 10 me 1 in this regard. I am not just talking about this game in your regard marv. I find you BM, thats all. | ||
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On May 26 2012 08:18 marvellosity wrote: I think you mistake BM for aggressive. It's an extremely rare thing indeed where I will directly insult someone. Anyway, are we going to do some scumhunting today or are we going to wait for tomorrow? Who do people think are good lynch targets at the moment? Aggressive is good, and fine. If you make it with points. I would like to see you in any setting go up to someone and call them stupid, and not expect at least being called a dick. | ||
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On May 26 2012 08:28 wherebugsgo wrote: So this is going to be a little game irrelevant, but it's true for me. this is a game, a game based on logic, information, emotion, and a variety of other things. Players like Palmar and I (among others) are quite aggressive in our approach, yes. I mention Palmar because he's probably the player I played most similarly to, simply through the number of games I played with him and the effectiveness of his style (though I didn't necessarily try to emulate his play). It's a style I use in debates as well; I'm not afraid to attack moral implications of certain beliefs or worldviews because I have a strong conviction for standing up for what one believes in. So far this game, though, I've refrained from using this style because newer players on the forum don't always respond the same way to it that older players did, and it renders the style somewhat ineffective. Up till about three pages ago I hadn't done anything in my normal style. I've been attacked on meta grounds for not being aggressive before as town. DFM2 comes to mind. LI comes to mind. Those are my recent town games. This game I wasn't attacked on meta grounds but I have been attacked for apparently being aggressive when I haven't been (which has made me really amused). It means one or a mixture of three things; I'm somehow aggressive without trying to, or I've cracked and I've started letting things slip, or I'm being misrepresented. I think it may be a mixture of all 3 but up till about 2-3 pages ago I don't think I had done anything to provoke anyone, until I called VE's argument trash and then the half brain comments. But this isn't a schooldebate. In a schooldebate pissing off the one you discuss with may work in your favour, as he get put off his game. This is why politicians can win debates simply by being better at domination techniques, while all they say is complete and utter nonsense. In this game players have to work together, at least to a certain degree. And pissing off and alianating players lead to a crappy environment. This happend to Cephiro in Liar, he got pissed off. He was right about Palmar all the way, but people picked on him, until he got infuriated, and then he was all of a sudden the bad guy. Same with Sheth, he was threatened that he should be banned because he "played against his wincondintions". I don't think they had a great experience in that game, and I don't think town got anything usefull out of them by this kind of attitude. I could mention many others incidents like it, but these are the most recent. Host can't and shouldn't do anything about it, the players should, because the only faction that gain anything from calling anyone dumb, or a case dumb is scum. Because a townie should explain why it is wrong, and not take the easy way of saying this is dumb, as it implies the person writing it is dumb, and shouldn't be listened to, shouldn't bother posting, shouldn't even play. A townie should encourage everyone to write, and write as open as they can, so the town can get a read on, and possible cooperate with the one writing. If someone think a person is writing something that is wrong or false or made up, beat them with arguements, not with cheap insults. | ||
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On May 26 2012 08:52 marvellosity wrote: Tunkeg, if you spent half the time scumhunting as talking about arguing, we'd actually be getting somewhere  True. I'll try to calmdown by tomorrow and be of any use. | ||
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On May 26 2012 08:57 VisceraEyes wrote: No dude try and calm down now - there are people here and we can actually do some shit. -.- I'm starting to think this is futile. It is 02:00 and I am really tired. I will give you my imputs before going to bed though. HiroPro kind of remind me of Katina in BC:AC, pretty lurky and only comes in to tunnel on me. I didn't believe she was scum that time, when she was. I think it is a hard case to make that HiroPro is scum only based on his tunneling on me and that he was Zealos target for DT (last part is so deep into WIFOM land that it is hard to write anything but speculations). I think HiroPro should be left alive for tomorrow, and see how he plays in the days to come. Nova Terra and Mattchew I have suspected from mid day 1, and I am still suspicious. Out of these I find Mattchew most suspicious now. He is hardcore aggressive, borderline disruptive and in my view of the word very BM. His defense on Zealos I found very strange. He wrote this for instance: First to discover Zealos claim: Quick change of vote: On May 26 2012 02:18 Mattchew wrote: fuck this im not gonna be the one to lynch a claimed DT again ##unvote ##vote hiropro Seems "confuesed" about lynching our "DT": On May 26 2012 03:08 Mattchew wrote: heres where im baffled about you voting zealos, if he's scum like you think, hiro is scum too. if hes not scum, your lynching our detective, while you coulda been lynching a red-checked hiro Taking precoutions for his choice to stick with Zealos as DT: On May 26 2012 03:59 Mattchew wrote: Just realized Imma look like quite the piece of shit if zealos flips scum... w.e i think katina/hiro are scum Is baffeled again over town flipping the "DT": On May 26 2012 06:51 Mattchew wrote: why are we flipping a claimed DT this makes no sense its GoT all over again at worst we lose a VT in hiro at worst we lose a Det in Zealos I don't understand And the toping on the cake is this question: On May 26 2012 02:45 Mattchew wrote: Do millers flip miller on death In hindsight it is easy to see why he would be interested in knowing this. If we had lynched Hiro and he flipped green (and there were no miller reveal) scum would have used this to give us doubt about a Zealos lynch on day 3. I believe Mattchew is scum. And should be out focus target on day 3. | ||
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On May 26 2012 09:31 marvellosity wrote: Tunkeg: the problem I have with that case on Mattchew is that I can easily provide the town narrative for it as well. Probably. But from my point of view it seems scummy. I think he wanted to play the concerned town role, but I think he overdid it. If he was dead certain Zealos was town and had indicated it before I might have bought it. But remember his vote was on Zealos just before the DT claim, so he should be in doubt. And I don't think a doubting townie would push this much for either side, he would vote, give his reason and let it play out. | ||
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These are the players that voted for HiroPro after the DT check. Zealos, Mattchew, Tunkeg, Acid~ are the players who didn't change their vote. I am certain there is at least one scum among the 5 that isn't Zealos, who either voted and switched or voted and stayed. VE I am scratching, same with froggynoddy (even if I am sold on him being town yet). This leaves Mattchew and acid.On Mattchew I have said what I think, at least about what occured before the lynch, I have also said what I thought of his flavor posting and his return to normal posting. Acid I think is a good option, he was pushing the counterwagon on Zelblade together with Mattchew. He was softdefending Zealos in a manner that makes me suspicious. He ended up voting Zealos before the claim, but I think the reason for voting is strange: On May 25 2012 10:18 Acid~ wrote: Me thinky zelblade scum. Me thinky zealos maybe scum. Me thinky zealos maybe bad town. On a more serious note, it seems like the zelblade vote is losing traction and I don't want a repeat of day one fiasco, so ##Unvote ##Vote: Zealos Add into the mix that Acid left his vote on marvellous day 1, when in the end the lynch was between Jeb and NT, Acids secound biggest scumread. I can not see why a townie wouldn't switch to his secound biggest scumread in a case like this. Overall I would suggest that the Vig, if the vig is shooting tonight, shoots into the pool that voted HiroPro, and more specifically Mattchew or Acid. These are also the two I think a day 3 lynch should be between if a vig don't shoot. Also if either of these flips scum Zelblade should be exonerated, as he was the counterwagon,a nd I doubt scum would push another scum for a counterwagon. | ||
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On May 26 2012 19:07 Nova_Terra wrote: rofl nothing new while i was asleep, aka. massive amounts of arguing, froggy making another Oh im back Nova is scum tunnel which everyone ignores, tunkeg getting a bad idea and playing in a different way than he said he would lets lynch acid next for vig shot i'd say Katina or Hiro, im not dealing with a ton of wifom shit after acid gets lynched and katina dies, we just lynch froggy too and then proceed to win Tell me what idea is bad, and why it is bad. I'll try not to rage at stuff like this and instead hold you accountable for it. Instead of discredit what I say, without any arguement behind it. At least explain why it is bad, and what I am wrong about. If not it is just a cheapshot without any meaning. | ||
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On May 26 2012 19:14 Tunkeg wrote: Tell me what idea is bad, and why it is bad. I'll try not to rage at stuff like this and instead hold you accountable for it. Instead of discredit what I say, without any arguement behind it. At least explain why it is bad, and what I am wrong about. If not it is just a cheapshot without any meaning. I still believe you to be scum though, so I would expect this kind of behaviour. It makes perfect sense from a scum point of view. | ||
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On May 26 2012 19:36 Nova_Terra wrote: sheepVE for rest of game is a terrible idea regardless if hes town or not Fair enough I agree. It was written while still being angry. If you read the rest I wrote after that you will see that I will try to contribute and actually do my own reads and votes. Thanks for clarifying what you thought was bad. On May 26 2012 19:39 Nova_Terra wrote: no, it doesnt, because suddenly you and froggy are pissed at me etc, which is also known as conflict which scum hates to be a part of, so posts like this would be avoided at the very least I am not mad at you. I have just decided that everytime anyone calls anything I write dumb, bad, stupid, retarded I will now make sure to comment on it (if I catch it), and make them explain why, I can't promiss not going apeshit again, but I will try. Why I thiink it makes perfect sense for scum to write that this is bad/stupid etc etc have I explained here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=337724¤tpage=62#1221 | ||
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On May 26 2012 19:42 marvellosity wrote: Tunkeg, why are you scratching VE from the possibilities? I am not scratching him from the possibilty. But I want to scratch him as a target for a vighit or day 3 lynch. I don't think he should be our focus given the information we got now. There are things in his filter I can't explain, but imo there allways is in VE's filter. But as of now I think VE is town. | ||
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On May 26 2012 20:02 marvellosity wrote: What do you think of Acid? Me? I think I answered it here. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=337724¤tpage=64#1271 I think he would be a good target for a Vighit or day 3 lynch. I still think Mattchew is a better target though. I am certain one of them have to be scum, but I do not believe both can be unless scum decided to put all their eggs in one basket. Having two people pushing for a counterwagon in this manner and switching like they did after the claim would be to risky I think, and I don't see this as very likely. | ||
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On May 26 2012 20:20 Nova_Terra wrote: Telling people to explain is fair, but no, your points, unless i am misinterpreting, are kinda just like all Townies are perfect and will/ should play in their perfect way, without making short judgements of anything, and therefore scum are who will do that. but thats not how it works. scum will avoid arguments, scum will avoid posting anything arguable so that nobody disagrees with them. and townies will rage, spam, get into fights, etc. I'll make concise statements like this is bad any day, and it wont be any more scummy. of course it would be if i never explained it when asked, but not until then. Ofcourse townies do this as well. But my point is that the negatives are larger than the positives for doing it, and townies should really try to avoid it. Sure you might want to state you disagree, but doing it in a manner that conribute to an environment that is cooperative is better than just state this is dumb this is dumb this is dumb and alianate the one on the receiving end. | ||
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On May 26 2012 20:54 Acid~ wrote: Yes, I didn't consolidate day1, and that was a mistake, which is exactly why I *did* consolidate day 2. Maybe my bad play put the fear in me, but in the end there was a 50-50 on both Hiro and Zealos and I did not want to risk lynching a blue role. Of course, you also voted for Hiro after the check but somehow you're above suspicion. I want the vig to shoot Katina, but I wouldn't shed any tears on your cold body. No I am not above any suspicioun. I included myself in the list of people who voted Hiro Pro. But you can't expect me to say that I am the one they should vig shoot or lynched? I could very well see people including me with you and Mattchew as the most suspicious voters on Hiro Pro. | ||
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On May 26 2012 21:07 zelblade wrote: Hey Tunkeg why are you excluding froggy? Why did you not doubt the "DT check" at all? I am not sure if it is right to exclude froggy, but besides his reason to change back to Zealos (see below) and his low post count I don't see anything that screams scum at me. On May 26 2012 03:13 froggynoddy wrote: Can someone tell me how much time before the lynch? Fuck it, I'm calling bull on you Zealos, everything you have just said seems so constructed after the fact (i.e. after you dropped the detect breadcrumb), plus your reasoning on Hiro seems really weak (i.e. an incomplete process of elimination). ##Unvote ##Vote Zealos The reason why I didn't express any doubt in Zealos claim was that I was hoping (probably more than believing) that he was right. Why? Because Hiro Pro have been tunneling me all game him flipping red would basicly confirm me. Also I really wanted to believe WBG was scum, and Zealos being scum = WBG most likely being town. Maybe it was as partly out of spite as well, I don't know. I had Zealos as one of my scumreads on day 1 though, but felt in some way his posting was getting better (probably because he was taking my side). The way he claimed was strange though, and I was thinking wtf is this. In the end though I think it was my view on Hiro Pro and WBG that made me favor Zealos. | ||
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On May 26 2012 21:39 Acid~ wrote: Ok, here goes. I'm not surprised Zealos flipped scum. I wouldn't have been surprised if he had flipped town either. On top of that, while WBG did change his vote when Zealos claimed DT, he also put the heat on him in the first place and helped in consolidating the vote along with marvellosity. For this reason, I believe this removes them both from the list of potential scum. Mattchew's reasoning is similar to mine - when a 50-50 case exists between two targets, it seems logical to aim for the one that did not blue claim. Now, as it turns out, we were wrong (or were we? this doesn't remove suspicion from HiroPro at all), but that does not mean that the reasoning was faulty. Tunkeg's post about Mattchew is like all of Tunkeg's posts so far : inutile. Unlike some of you, I don't have a high level of faith in humanity so based on his posting so far in the game, my read is that Tunkeg does not even try to understand half of what he reads. As an aside. I've had a town read on matt since the beginning, for one simple reason. I love MTG and it's the main reason why I signed up for this game. I enjoyed the shit out of his flavor posts and I loved reading into them, even though I didn't know what cards the flavor text was from most of the time. It was just elegant. And I understood what he meant just fine. If I had been a veteran of TL mafia, or a respected/known poster on TL or something like that, I would probably have tried to post like that as well. Unless I was scum. That's the thing. As scum I would NOT ever do something like this. It's not nearly disruptive enough to be a viable scum strategy except if the townies are all riding the shortbus. And when the thread started going to shit because of other disruptive elements, he stopped the flavor posting. I heard some silly arguments like "it's such an obvious town move that it has to be a scum move", but I tend to disregard mindgames like that because the bottom line is: his behavior helped town more than scum so far. Why are my posts useless? Give me examples. What posts is it that you think I don't understand? What are your understanding of how I understand them? Bring something else then this discrediting shit man. | ||
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On May 23 2012 02:25 Acid~ wrote: In a strange twist of fate, one of the most annoying creatures in the multiverse was brought to the place where it could cause the most damage. I'll admit I have a hard time reading these flavor posts as they have some ambiguity to them (hence why I hated them in the first place). But the way I interpret this is that you think Mattchew is being annoying with his flavor posting. | ||
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On May 26 2012 22:44 marvellosity wrote: Because to put together the last post I had to 1) go back and read the thread where where Zealos first breadcrumbed 2) go back and read the thread at the point Zealos revealed his claim properly 3) looked through wbg's and my filter to put together my thoughts on him 4) looked at your filter in conjunction with how things went down in the thread These things take time, and today is where I found that time. Do not try to discredit what I say because of when I posted it. Have you considered the possibility off a scumteam with both WBG and VE? And that their headbutting is a deliberate scumtactic to throw town off? I was thinking about this, because I have found both abit weird. But my conclusion on it is that it is pretty far fetched, and isn't a possibility worth looking into until one have flipped scum (if that were to happend). I also think there are far better targets as previously mentioned, and neither WBG or VE should be targets of a lynch for day 3. In fact I don't believe either is scum as of now. | ||
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On May 26 2012 23:02 marvellosity wrote: Yes, and my post there shows how that wasn't the case... My read is that Acid does not even try to understand half of what he reads. See what I did here Acid? Now reply to: On May 26 2012 21:46 Tunkeg wrote: Why are my posts useless? Give me examples. What posts is it that you think I don't understand? What are your understanding of how I understand them? Bring something else then this discrediting shit man. | ||
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On May 26 2012 23:18 Acid~ wrote: Doesn't surprise me. You're much too litteral in your reading. By posting in the same manner as him, I wanted to express support on a personal level. However, I also wanted to point out that his posting could end up being detrimental to town if it pissed off the other townies. Hmm, so you wanted to show your support for him by replying to a post where he have basicly called you out for sheeping and for being scum (a wolf). He is calling you a sheep in wolfclothes (or at least thats how I read it, and it makes sense in that perspective). No I think you understood what he meant by it, and replied as you did to discredit him, not to show your appreciation. | ||
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On May 26 2012 23:23 Acid~ wrote: I see no value in getting into a pissing contest with you. Arguing about why you are useless or why I am useless is not going to root out any scum. I don't want a pissingcontest either, but I want people to explain it when they are undermining me like that. I can't argue with a statement that says: "You are useless", and thats why it is such a cheap way of going at me. If you give your arguements to why I am useless (still no need to use that expression as it just there to devalue everything I say) people can make up their mind whether you are right or wrong, and I can argue with you if I disagree with your arguements. Arguing about whether someone is useless or not brings nothing to the table, I agree, so why use the word? But me calling you out for using this wording will, as I won't let people just throw unreasonable accusations out there, which they can't be held accountable for. | ||
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On May 26 2012 23:47 Acid~ wrote: I called you useless because someone else asked for my opinion about you. I wasn't talking to you and I'm not calling you scum, so I don't need to make a case. I *will* ignore all further posts from you on this issue. I'm not here to teach you how to play, especially since I'm far from stellar myself. If you want to discuss someone's scumminess, then we'll talk. Thats fine. I *will not* ignore any attempts at taking cheap shots at my expense. I will also note that you couldn't back up your statement about me, and that it in fact just was to discredit me. Some more scumpoints for you... | ||
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On May 26 2012 22:33 marvellosity wrote: Ok, I'm going out this afternoon and I won't be back until tomorrow, so in case I'm dead I just want to write down some thoughts. On Zealos/Hiro: Earlier I have been suggesting the idea that Hiro is scum and Zealos/Hiro were bussing. This remains a distinct possibility imo, but having read back on the thread and timings I am less convinced than I was before. Zealos hadn't had all the votes piled on to him yet, so it wasn't yet necessarily the case that he was going to get lynched (I feel the Zealos/Hiro both scum theory works best if Zealos was definitely getting lynched). I am now inclined to believe another possibility - Zealos breadcrumbed the DT check simply in case it looked like he was getting lynched later. That way he at least had a possibility of dragging a townie down first before he got lynched, which would be a decent result. This seems consistent with how it went down - he brought up his claim to the thread at the point where everyone had decided to vote for Zealos after all, so he activated his last-ditch ploy. Anyway, both these scenarios are still possible, but I wanted to talk about them both. The question that needs to remain in people's heads is: Why did Zealos choose HiroPro? Because even in the 2nd scenario, he could have selected someone else like Nova_Terra or even zelblade, and had a likelier chance to take them down first before he died. About wbg and VE: We all know wbg and VE do their own little thing in the thread, and it's remarkably hard to pierce it. Nonetheless they do need to be looked at and so I will do so a little. On wbg: It seems like he helped push the Zealos lynch with me, and a lot of his posting has been strong and makes sense. There's a couple of things I don't like though: Those kinda posts rub me the wrong way. Note how wbg says he doesn't want to give reads because town isn't listening, or wbg says that he'll post reads on 2 people 'later', or generally how wbg talks about not giving away information because giving reads is giving information to scum. Fair enough as a stance, perhaps, but it doesn't line up with So wait... on one hand wbg repeatedly talks about giving reads can often give information to scum, on the other here he claims he talks about reads more than almost anyone else. These two sentiments do not make sense together. I also really did not like this. There's like 30 hours left in the day and he already wants to 'consolidate' on to another player where the only case is he was inactive. It's one post that really made me sit there and think "wow, really?!". ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ On VE: At the time of Zealos' doctor claim, I was especially interested in how VE and wbg would respond to it. The response I disliked most by far was from VisceraEyes. After the claim, froggy, Tunkeg, and Mattchew voted for HiroPro in quick succession. However, I would expect VE to give the Zealos claim some critical thought, especially as he has been suspicious of Zealos before. But what do we get? Nothing but a blind vote switch. No analysis on why it could be true or false. The suspicious part of me thinks that VE was behind Zealos' fake-claim, and then in the thread it looks like town is lapping it up so VE feels safe to carry on the trend. It is simply very odd that he just vote-switched like that. Bear in mind his vote here came before I started seriously attacking Zealos' claim. He goes on to explain his switch IN HINDSIGHT (rather than at the time) with what I consider some fairly weak reasoning: He doesn't buy that scum could massively frame? What, like him/toad in LI, it's so unlikely? And still no analysis of why Zealos' claim is likely to be true or false. But all of a sudden his opinion changes with some bullshit reasoning, and he goes on to quiz Zealos on why his claim is true and what not. But imo, too late, the ship has sailed. What kind of reason is this? bugs is scum and he's a big fake-claim advocate? This is the weakest sauce possible for switching votes. Like seriously, look at how ridiculous it is. And look at how *hypocritical* it is. scum is this big fake-claim advocate? To bring it up again, it was VE's plan in LI to fake-claim as scum and bus his team-mate. Everything is wrong here. | ||
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On May 27 2012 07:14 Nova_Terra wrote: Tunkeg if im right you are townie lynch hiro and then win? If it only were that simple. I still don't think Hiro is scum. I would like the vig to step forward, then we have confirmed townie with confirmed reads we can discuss with. We allready have 4 dead though, 3 townies which might who we know weren't bullshitting, and one scum who might have outed some of his teammates indirectly. If we get the vig to step forward, and we put some effort into the next lynch we should be able to get it right. If my worst fears are right, WBG and VE being scum together I think we will be hard pressed though, but this is for us to figure out. | ||
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On May 27 2012 07:22 Nova_Terra wrote: Tunkeg, only one of the two is scum if any. the convos were NOT fake. they just werent. furthermore, that sets up for a second scum against scum situation, which already happened with zealos and hiro, which hasnt happened cause eres no way that would happen twice in a game. VE is very capable of arguing with his scumbuddy all game long. WBG is also a very capable scumplayer. So I would not exclude that scenario at all. The thing though is that I know WBG have said many times that he don't bus his teammate as scum. But he pushed Zealos, and that is why I think it would be strange if he turned up scum. Also his posting near the end of day 2 gave me townvibes on him. But really, I will have to do some rereading before day 3 lynch, and I would advise the rest of you to do it as well. Pick out the 3-4 players who you think is most scummy and reread them, do some eliminations among them and post your cases. And please if you are town don't turn red with rage because someone is calling you scum, try to point out where they are wrong without turning this into a mudslinging contest. If we can do this, we might succeed. | ||
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On May 27 2012 08:04 VisceraEyes wrote: Cool. I'll be brief. I want you to lynch me if you PROMISE TO LYNCH BUGS NEXT. Everyone seems to think either Bugs or I am scum or that we both are. As such, if you guys have a handle on this outside the two of us, I prefer you just get us out of the way first so whoever is left is confirmed whatever. Please guys, no one is going to listen to anything I say at this point and I'm just a distraction. Remove it. Also I'm the Doctor, so if you don't lynch one of me or Bugs, I'm dead tonight anyway. Gg guys, sorry I allowed Bugs to mindfuck me so hard this game.  What, you claimed with almost no one on your case? This is the strangest claim I have ever seen. I just urged the entire thread to go reread so we could avoid a misslynch. This claim is in fact so strange that I can't believe you would do it is as town. | ||
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On May 27 2012 08:16 VisceraEyes wrote: Fwiw Tunkeg, Bugs busseduction the ship out of me in BCAC...just fyi I thought he was like one of the only one on the scumteam that time that didn't bus, but maybe you are right, all I remember is him telling after Student that he would never ever bus unless there was no other way around it. And I don't think scum had to bus Zealos this time. | ||
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On May 27 2012 08:27 VisceraEyes wrote: Are you of the opinion that Hiro is scum Tunkeg? No. Are you? | ||
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VE I think you know that you leave us no choice but to lynch you. But if you are in fact the doctor, and just did this out of afffect or rage, then I am willing to write it up as a mistake (kind of like my "ragequit" earlier), and won't hold any grudges. If you are in fact the doc I will expect you to contribute in a non abrisive and non disruptive way for this last 2 days. Post up your reads, don't get into any fights, and don't shit up the thread. If you do this as and you are a doc, your mistake is forgivable. If you are scum everything goes. I also wish we could have at least pretended that we might buy VE's claim, as I think his posts if scum would give us more information. More on the NT cop claim in my next post. ##Vote VisceraEyes | ||
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Arguements that it might be true is: - He have been telling thread that WBG is town from day 2 and forward. - He instantly started a HiroPro push on day 3, and turned on his view on me based on this. - The timing of his claim is wierd if scum. VE just came out and claim, and if NT is scum and VE is not it would be easy to just join in on the VE lynch. If NT is scum and VE is scum it also a very high risk maneuver for scum. Arguements that it might be false is: - No breadcrumbs on his checks. - He actually mentioned he contemplated claiming Vet and have breadcrumbed VET, which I find strange. - He didn't indicate any suspicion on Hiro Pro before his claimed check on him. Except he told that a vig hit on Hiro Pro would be advicable, and imo you shouldn't check someone you want a vig check on. - In my opinion there are other targets than Hiro Pro that would be better to check on night 2. - The timing of the claim. This is on both sides, because VE is great at messing up the thread if he is scum. So this might be a doubledamage claim in the sense that these moves would throw us completely off. My conclusion is that I can't decide whether or not Nova_Terra's claim is true or false. Anyways, whether or not the claim is true or false there are alot of insecurity tied to investigations this game. You have the framer which in worst case scenario could have framed WBG night 1 and made him appear town and framed Hiro Pro night 2 and made him appear as scum. You have the Godfather role that might have made WBG appear as town. You have the miller that might have made Hiro Pro appear as scum. My take on this is: - If WBG is scum it would be very likely that he got framed night one, if scumteam have a framer. There is also a 1/4 chance he would be the godfather if the role is in the game. To me this means that if Nova_Terras claim is true then his check on WBG night 1 most likely means WBG is town, but shouldn't be taken to much into consideration because of the uncertainty. - If Hiro Pro is town I don't see it as very likely that he got framed night 2. This leaves the chance that he is miller, which regardless of whether there is 0,1,2 isn't a high chance. To me this means that if Nova_Terras claim is true then his check on Hiro Pro night 2 very likely means Hiro Pro is scum, and should very much so be taken into consideration. | ||
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On May 27 2012 20:41 Nova_Terra wrote: It became apparent to me that hiro wouldnt have.been hit by vig over froggy or katina or acid due to sheer amount of people wanting them shot I purposely didn't voice suspicions or my thinking of him as inno because I didn't think that I would claim today Let's lynch VE or Hiro at least Agreed. We have to lynch VE today, the way he did it pretty much have forced our hand. Then if you survive the night you will post a new read, and we will have to WIFOM why you survived the night and if your claim is believeble, if you don't and you flip cop we should probably look into lynching Hiro. | ||
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On May 28 2012 02:01 Mattchew wrote: Ok guys, the way I see it we have 2 fights. VisceraEyes vs Wherebugsgo and Nova_tera vs HIropro We have the 2 claims of VE (Doc) and NT (Det). I firmly believe that ANY BLUE ROLE SHOULD COME FORWARD AND CLAIM NOW, ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE ONE OF THESE 2 ROLES. Also, I believe we should be voting on the NT vs Hiro case because we get a confirmed scum out of the claim (NT if Hiro flips green and Hiro if NT isn't lying) despite how confident VE is in his read I was wrong about the Zealos vs Hiropro situation so I would like more opinions on them before I make my vote. Right now I side with believe NT and would like to vote Hiropro Do not do this. Only counterclaim we should have today is vig, if the true vig haven't claimed. Otherwise it is foolish to let yourself be flushed out by these claims. There aren't two fights going on. There are two claims, and these needs to be resolved. We have to start with VE's claim first, because that one is imo the hardest to believe and understand. There is no way for us not to lynch VE today as far as I view it. So if anyone else truly is the doc you should sit back and for sure not claim. Same thing is with cop, if there is anyone else than NT who is cop you shouldn't claim today, maybe day 4, but definately not today. | ||
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On May 28 2012 02:44 Mattchew wrote: I vehemently disagree. If VE were to flip doctor, all we are left with is his READ on WBG and we are in LYLO, just as if we flip WBG and he flips town, we are left with VE being wrong and we are in LYLO. If VE flip doctor we have to deal with it then. We are left with alot other than VE's read. The reason we should lynch VE is that it doesn't make sense from a town perspective, and he is very probable scum. A counterclaim won't do anything towards this, unless it is a scumcounterclaim, which we can lynch day 4, that won't happend. You say you believe NT, now what? We lynch Hiro? What if he flips town, then we are left with nothing else than NT's claim which still might be true. And we are worse off than if we lynched VE and he by some off chance actually flips doc. VE knew that he would be lynched by claiming like that, and if he was rational when doing so he is definately scum, and have an agenda for doing so. | ||
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On May 28 2012 03:18 Mattchew wrote: If hiro flips town we lynch NT. Scum have had literally no reason to frame Hiro (especially after the Zealos fake claim) and if he flips miller then we got fucked and thats it. The odds are EXTREMELY higher that one of hiro/NT are scum than VE/WBG The odds are good that one of hiro or NT is scum I agree, but the odds that VE is scum is better. The chance of VE being scum is good enough that I am willing to guarantee it. | ||
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People need to post their opinion on the claims. This is you Katina and you Navilus. VE can we get your opinion on N_T's claim as well? | ||
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On May 29 2012 04:00 VisceraEyes wrote: ##Vote: HiroPro Bugs, Nova_Terra, Mattchew That's what I'm going with for 1000. I apologize that my will to play this game has been sapped. GG guys. You think Nova_Terra is scum and still you vote Hiro Pro, makes perfect sense. All of this is just scumtactics, and will be threated as that, when you flip (I am 99% certain you are scum). I know exazctly what you are doing here. You promised us your reads and your insight. I would have expected you to deliver it if you were town. But I will give credit where credit is due, you didn't shit up the thread. | ||
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On May 29 2012 07:46 Mattchew wrote: Remember that time? Oh yeah, now we have to lynch who? WBG? Tunkeg, wheres your brilliant backup plan. I got none. Feel free to be as dickish as you please, because I agree I officially suck at this game. I don't know who's supposed to carry this town now, if WBG is town he is gone tonight, unless scum want us to WIFOM heavily about whether or not VE was right. And then what have we got left? Nova the Copclaimer (Yeah I might just follow him) Hiro the Tunneler (No, sorry, he have been wrong about me the entire game) Mattchew the BM Flavorshitposter (Nope, you are actually the last person I'd follow). Katina and Navilus of the House of Lurkers (Noooo, don't think so). froggynoddy the Vig (Well he is the only one confirmed, so why not). WBG the Tainted (He'll probably be dead, but if not he will probably decide the game, if scum then scum wins, if town he either dies or we have a snowballs chance in hell to make it). | ||
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On May 29 2012 08:35 Mattchew wrote: I am voting WBG tomorrow... You guys wanted to go with VE's plan (regardless of what you thought of him thats what you did) so we might as well fulfill it. I am not. I am not going with any VE plan. I voted him because he did a unbelivable stupid claim. | ||
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On May 29 2012 08:56 Mattchew wrote: you seem so humble. do you think you are smarter than VE? or better yet, a better mafia player? Nah. In fact I think I know nothing about this game after seeing a veteran do that claim. I can't see any reasons what so ever to do it. I don't understand it. Heck VE might be some Mafia God for all I care, but as long as I can't understand him, I am for sure not going to follow his "plan". So let me rephrase the stupid part to inconceivable. My point still stands though, I am not going to do as he bid, especially when I think he fucked us by doing what he did. | ||
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On May 29 2012 09:11 Mattchew wrote: Also, just so its in the thread, I think WBG/Tunk/Hiro are the remaining scum team Thats fine, I think you are scum as well, and have thought so all game. | ||
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Do you think it was a good claim? Why? That is what needs to be answered, The entire town voted for him. You are the only one who thinks his claim was any good aparantly. So stop with these nonsense questions. God damn scum! I am voting you tomorrow no matter what... | ||
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On May 29 2012 09:51 Mattchew wrote: I think that his claim was justified, cause if he had not claimed, we woulda all been like VE WHY YOU NO CLAIM YOU SOO STOOPID.. also, he justified all his actions, whether you like his justifications or not, he did justify them and attempt to reach out to all of you to tell you this, sorry you didn't listen, you do realize, that 1 wrong vote tomorrow means town loses. so if by some UNBELIEVABLE turn of events, you are actually town, that means the entire scum team can jump on your wrong vote and win the game. You really think claiming straight into day 3 was smart, with the only one being suspecious of him was marv? Had he claimed after half the town voted for him then fine, but like that, come on. I am well aware of that, am I as certain you are scum as I was of VE? No. Do I think so? Yes, very much so. And you are free to blame me for the loss, I'll take full responsibilty. In fact if you aren't scum this game I promise to resign from TL Mafia. Because then I suck so bad at this game that theres simpelt no point in playing it anymore. And this is no bogus threath as the one scum VE did in LI. I will honor it! | ||
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##Vote HiroPro | ||
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Am I resigned. Hell yeah. I have been resigned since the VE flip. To me everyone of you could easily be scum for different reasons (except froggy). And none of the remaining players have been very usefull in this game, and have conviced me they are town. Not even WBG, who could easily lead a scumteam by being the most active after this town imploded, have done anything truly beneficial to town. We have to go for the easy solution. We have to kill Hiro, because he has a DT check on him, and that is a way better read than we (or at least) I) will come up with on anyone else in this game. | ||
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On May 31 2012 04:46 Mattchew wrote: can someone else tell katina she never made a case on me and that my only defense has not been calling people stupid? Katina is right about you. But she only see the speck of sawdust in others eyes, while she completely ignores the plank in her own. But thats like most of the players on TL Mafia anyways, every single one is infallible, and everyone else is useless. I know I am useless, but at least I haven't been as useless as Katina this game, I will name her runner up for MVP scum (if she flips town that is) behind VE. | ||
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I think she is beyond useless, and thats why she is getting lynched. She could very well be scum, I wouldn't know. Thats why I voted Hiro, who have a confirmed DT check on him. | ||
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On June 01 2012 07:13 Mattchew wrote: HiroPro (2): Navillus, Tunkeg, you gots some splaining to do I don't. If you are not incapable of reading you will see why I voted Hiro. Do with it as you may. | ||
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On June 02 2012 03:36 Mattchew wrote: There are 2 scum left. If both people left on hiropro were town, scum coulda changed over to Hiro last minute and won EZ mode. This means there has to be ATLEAST 1 scum left on hiro at the end of the day This is where I would suggest our lynch to come from tomorrow You are just stupid. Hiro Pro is scum as well, meaning it makes no difference where scum placed their votes. | ||
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On June 02 2012 06:57 HiroPro wrote: Tunkeg is scum. The points I've made in my earlier cases still hold true. He says that he's going to vote for Mattchew at night because he's bm. He thinks that Katina is scum but doesn't vote for her. Navillus is probably the other scum. His posting over the past couple of days has been very non-committal and nervous. And the way Katina glosses over Navillus speaks volumes. She said that he was scummy but then quickly tried to change the subject. That's the mark of a team mate trying to draw away attention. You know I am not scum, because you are scum yourself. But no need to feel good about your play this game, you guys didn't win this for scum, town did. You did nothing but tunnel me all game, got a condirme DT check on you and still the town in this game have played such an utterly shit game that they are getting lynched before you. I think you and Navilus are the last scum. And I think Mattchew is the "third" scum, what a complete joke his game have been. ##Vote Hiro Pro | ||
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On June 02 2012 07:12 Mattchew wrote: Ps can I request 24 hour days If people are set on voting me can you just go instant lynch and end it? I won't do nothing to sway this lynch in any other way than saying Hiro Pro and Navilus is scum. | ||
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On June 02 2012 07:31 Navillus wrote: I'm fine with 24 hour days, I think a tunkeg lynch is a bad idea ##Vote: Hiro confirmed DT check Haha, I like your strategy. Everyone suspects us two to be scum together, therefor you side with me, to make it even easier for them to lynch me. That is a clever move, clever indeed. | ||
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On June 02 2012 09:32 Mattchew wrote: Hey tunk you can talk shit on my game all you want but it's not me town is lynching... Once again if you are town you have no one to blame but yourself... Notice how no confirmed town (Aka dead townies and froggy) all never called me scum and i have never been a lynch target meaning I helped town avoid a mislynch on myself You contributed heavily to making the town environment as shitty as it is. With your useless flavor posting, and crap attitude. | ||
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On June 02 2012 09:32 froggynoddy wrote: There are so many scenarios in this post that if you are town, which is highly doubtful, you may need to reconsider changing your plausible... Again. PS: am up for 24 hour days. If there are many scumslips in this post then I am either posting like scum on purpose and should receive a lifetime ban from TL Mafia. Or you are seeing something that isn't there. | ||
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On June 02 2012 22:02 froggynoddy wrote: If you serious, and the scum team don't concede, then wait till the post-game. If you aren't, you are answering your own question. No do it now, I just want to see where I stepped wrong. And it cannot hurt the game given reasons to why you got me? | ||
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On June 02 2012 22:29 froggynoddy wrote: Of course it hurts town as it allows your scumbuddy to blend in. The rest of you, are you happy to lynch navillus next? I would think any discussions would be better than the activity level the last few days. But have it your way then, don't give any imputs... | ||
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On June 02 2012 17:38 Tunkeg wrote: Well done! You guys got me. As this is my first game as scum, care to tell me how you got me. What did I do to tip you guys off? This is a lie. I am town. I tried to do a hailmary attempt of not getting myself lynched. How would this hailmary work? Well, I was hoping the townies would post where I "slipped" forcing the scums to post their, after them having a WTF moment, after my false surrender. Only one who responded to it was froggynoddy, our confirmed town, who did so in a manner that just ruined my entire trap. If you lynch me, the game is over, scum have won. I am actually very ok with it, because I have been over this game for days. But it is not fair to you to go out without at least a little fight. I'll start off with a quick recap of the game: To me this game started off fine. I wanted to play this game in a different fashion then before, and would have if I didn't get pissed off, annoyed and resigned. This was discussed heavily early. Acrofalis came after me strong, in what to me seemed as a very townie way of playing. N_T also went after me, but in a fashion that I interprited as very scum like (I was wrong). HiroPro came after me with weak cases, and started his tunneling. ET defended me, in what I first saw as a very town way, but him not wanting to answer my questions and generally not giving strong lead made me think he was scum, for like 2 hours until he got lynched. Zealos play was very weird at first, and gave me heavy scumvibes, but I thought his play made more sense on day 2. This is pretty much how I saw day 1, the rest didn't make an impression on me day 1, except Mattchew and his flavor posting (which I have given my thoughts on numerous times). Day 2 to me was were I gave up the first time. I didn't like the way the game was going and the general townenvironment (this was not the kind of game I wanted to play). I did get a modwarning after request from Marv, and decided to keep on trying. I think this decision by the mod was bad, he should either have modkilled me or given me a warning in private without announcing it to thread. I didn't see any such warning for VE when he decided to suicide himself, I guess the rules aren't equal for the veterans and the common players... I didn't vote Zealos, I kept my vote on WBG in spite. Day2 also had the big VE vs WBG arguement and Mattchew comming to his senses and starting to post (even though I like him better when he just kept posting nonsense). Night 2 I got a secound wind and wanted to try to play and win this game again. I for one was ready to get down and dirty and start rereading and going over filters of my main suspects. Marv was killed, which was very predictable. Acid was Vig'ed as he should be. The day 3 hit with two weird claims which put me off big time. I could not believe VE would ever claim like he did if town, and I was very suspicious of the N_T claim (I guess he got carried away by getting a scumresult on his check). To me VE had to be scum or the game would not make sense at all. He got lynched and was in fact the doctor. This is where I resigned in full, and from the looks of it the rest of the town did as well. After this the activity have been incredibly low, the scumhunting have been without any cases, just votes and some silly one liner reason. To me the game was over, and I felt like playing it the way WBG, Mattchew and Katina did. By all ad hominem against the ones that had played this way against me. I didn't care if we won and not (and still don't really, but I will be fair to you who still does), I just wanted to stick it to the ones who had shit up the thread. Was it productive, was it pro-town, hell no, but that have been what I have argued earlier, it isn't pro-town to be a jackass! The votes against me The votes against me came instantly after the night. Onlyone on a different target is Navilus (who I actually suspect for it, as it would be a great scum move to do as the rest of you have linked us two together). It came without any cases, and any reasoning. And I can understand that if you guys are as fed up with this game as I am. But if you still want to win this game, go reread my filters and at least try to make a justified case on it. Also read Katinas and Zealos filters and see what they write about me, or don't write about me. So I am telling you one last time, I am town, but a fed-up one, don't mistake it for scum... You can blame me for losing if you want to, but in the end it is you guys who are doing the voting, and not putting in the effort to try to read me (and the two scums who will survive) properly . | ||
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On June 03 2012 04:58 Mattchew wrote: I am here... idk about tunk i felt like his long ass post was because a mod warned him in private It wasn't the modwarning I referred to was on day 2. And it was in thread as well as private. | ||
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On June 03 2012 04:59 Tunkeg wrote: It wasn't the modwarning I referred to was on day 2. And it was in thread as well as private. EBWOP: It wasn't. The modwarning I referred to was on day 2. And it was in thread as well as private. | ||
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On June 03 2012 05:08 Mattchew wrote: yeah i know that one, im saying that your post feels like you got warned again, on a separate occasion, this time for playing against your win-con That was what I was warned for the last time. This time I should have just gotten modkilled if he thought it was playing against my win condition. Also as a scum doing what I did earlier wouldn't have been a clear playing against your wincondition case, as I had 4 votes on me and giving up could be a way of leading you guys a stray. As a town it would be much easier to argue that it is playing against my wincondition, had it not been for the fact that I, as explained, had a reason behind doing it. It didn't work out though, which was to be expected, but still, if you aren't even allowed to try to set up a trap (regardless of whether or not people think it is a good or bad trap) before it is called playing against your wincondition, then the rules are to harsh. I didn't get a warning for this. | ||
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On June 03 2012 05:09 Mattchew wrote: Tunk would you be down with a nav lynch, if me you and froggy all switched i think that would work Yeah, I would be fine with that. Partly because I think he is scum. Partly because I die if not. I would prefer Hiro though. | ||
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On June 03 2012 05:18 Tunkeg wrote: Yeah, I would be fine with that. Partly because I think he is scum. Partly because I die if not. I would prefer Hiro though. EBWOP: Partly because he is my secound biggest scumread besides Hiro Pro. | ||
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On June 03 2012 05:34 Mattchew wrote: i need froggy to switch before i do Also the one between Hiro and Zel who is town should vote together with us, if the switch is to be done. Cause scum will pile their two votes on me now, if the switch happends. And if they act before we do, they got this. If Navilus is town it is game over anyways though. | ||
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On June 03 2012 05:40 Mattchew wrote: before nav can switch to you True but if Navilus switches first, we need that last town. | ||
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On June 03 2012 05:53 Mattchew wrote: funny how froggy asks is anyone around and is the one that isn't around He might have made up his mind. A last time switch is usually not a great idea. | ||
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On June 03 2012 06:12 froggynoddy wrote: I was thinking about the navillus problem. Mattchew I have never played with tunkeg. Is he usually this bad town? I was already confirmed, mattchew pretty much is too as he prompted my move on katina which IMO has no scum motivations. Pffff i'm starting to lose motivation. In LIV I won with Marv as scum because town w let scum win and it seems the same may be happening here. Matthew, ihave looked at both tunkeg and navillus and they both look scummy as hell. The only reason i'm doubting tunkeg now is just because he just might be terrible town, coupled with the fact that hiro and nav have been lurking hardcore. Mattchew, why do you nav isnow a better choice? Screw it, my votes stays on Hiro. If this is how you want to decide I decide for you. I am off. | ||
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On June 03 2012 06:12 froggynoddy wrote: I was thinking about the navillus problem. Mattchew I have never played with tunkeg. Is he usually this bad town? I was already confirmed, mattchew pretty much is too as he prompted my move on katina which IMO has no scum motivations. Pffff i'm starting to lose motivation. In LIV I won with Marv as scum because town w let scum win and it seems the same may be happening here. Matthew, ihave looked at both tunkeg and navillus and they both look scummy as hell. The only reason i'm doubting tunkeg now is just because he just might be terrible town, coupled with the fact that hiro and nav have been lurking hardcore. Mattchew, why do you nav isnow a better choice? And you haven't exactly been supertown yourself this game. Your filter isn't the most impressive I've seen... | ||
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On June 03 2012 06:30 froggynoddy wrote: Whatever, I confirmed myself as town, I led a lynch onkatina. Thatsmore than anyone apart from marv, WBG and matt. I don't give a shit about the quantity of my posts. You confirmed yourself by a uncontest vigclaim. Don't even try to take credit for being confirmed, when that is the case... | ||
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On June 03 2012 06:34 froggynoddy wrote: GG tunkeg. It is over, that is true. It is not a GG, that I think we can agree upon. | ||
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On June 03 2012 06:46 froggynoddy wrote: Why if you were town would you try to antagonize the one guy who was considering getting you off a lynch? I would ask you the same? Why the fuck do you want to antagonize me when I am actually trying to get the lynch off me? No one likes to get pissed on, and I am no exception. If you could have held your trashtalk to yourself and just decided for or against without trying to piss me off I would be ok either way. When you intentionally try to piss me off I take that as a signal that you don't want to decide it. I am perfect aware that my game have been shit since the VE lynch. But I'll be damned if I cooperate with someone who take a shit dump all over me all the while elevating himself to some fantastic townplayer this game. | ||
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On June 03 2012 06:49 Mattchew wrote: thats non-telling of alignment lol Tunkeg why if you were scum would you try to antagonize the one guy who was considering getting you off a lynch? see As scum I would probably swallowed it, knowing I had the possibility of tricking him. As town that would never happend. | ||
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On June 03 2012 06:57 Mattchew wrote: Tunk if you are town, that IS playing against your win-con... you don't have to be nice or like froggy, but if you know he is town and refuse to help push a town agenda, you are only helping scum Then so be it. I refuse to play towards my wincondition at all costs. Same as if you come into my office and insult me and want me to an asignment for me, I won't do it, you can fire me instead... | ||
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On June 03 2012 07:04 gonzaw wrote: Town deserves that for lynching VE We deserved that for lynching VE? VE caused his lynch on himself, holy fucking hell, what a shit claim. | ||
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On June 03 2012 07:29 gonzaw wrote: Autoerotic asphyxiation, losing town games since 1983 Tunkeg, as soon as you pulled the "I'm resigning from TL if you are town" thing I immediately thought you were scum overreacting (like they always do) ...I didn't think you actually meant it >_> It is a lousy threath (shouldn't be used, as it goes beyond the game, and is infact abit unfair if a well respected player writes it), I shouldn't have written it. But I had decided to quit anyways, and had my thing against Mattchew at the time, so it happend. | ||
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