EPTMagic: The Gathering Mini Mafia - Page 8
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 28 2012 00:40 VisceraEyes wrote: It's not wierd, it's called WIFOM. Telling medics to protect him is a psychology thing...public orders are just that, public...and that means that scum can see it ya? So we're operating under the assumption that scum aren't going to shoot Marvel right? Because he's medic protected publicly. What does that mean if you're a doctor...that means that protecting marvel is a waste right? Because scum aren't going to hit him. So you're actually better off protecting someone OTHER than Marvel because there's a higher chance of actually protecting someone. I mean, obviously if you don't believe my claim then this is pointless, but as the Doctor, that's my view on being directed. You call it WIFOM and then your conclusion is different than what it would be if it was actually WIFOM. Doctor protects are never WIFOM. You always protect the most town looking player. Always. Look at Cop You Idiot mafia: if the medic protted Tunkeg he would've lived. Look at this game. Both ET and marvellosity were really obvious shots. No one in their right mind would shoot me as long as I'm at the forefront of discussion. If I request to die most mafia leave me alive as well (it's worked all the time in the past) The fact that I predicted the marvellosity shot should prove that he was the most likely to get hit. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 28 2012 09:57 VisceraEyes wrote: The fact that he was lurky was WHY I protected froggy. My theories about playing doctor are well known and documented, and anyone who has played with me is well aware that my claim makes sense from my perspective...even Bugs though he'll deny it until post-game. False, I have not played with you as a blue as far as I can remember. If your blue style is "plays like an idiot" then I would not be aware of it. If you actually flip blue then your play is indefensible. Playing doctor isn't about blindly protecting the towniest players...often the towniest seeming players are scum. Yeah it's about protecting town assets. You can easily say that the lurking players are the most likely to be scum too. The person most likely to get shot is nearly always going to be a vocal and useful townie. What was ET? Vocal and useful townie. Marvellosity? Vocal and useful townies. The players who get shot are those who are not afraid of pushing lynches and those who are generally impervious to lynch attention. Not that neither ET nor marvellosity even so much as got a serious vote the day before they died. Playing Doctor is always about stopping night hits. ALWAYS. There are always circumstances beyond "appearances" to consider. And you as a doctor have failed miserably. Before you guys blindly listen to Bugs, please consider that regardless of what he says, different people play in different ways and my flip is going to prove that fact if nothing else. you flipping town would prove that you played yet again like an idiot and nothing else. Your play, if you are town, this game has been atrocious. By no means does it make any sense for you to ever claim doctor in your position. Neither of your protects make a shred of sense and your behavior now doesn't make any sense either. Everything you've done can be explained from the perspective of furthering a scum agenda because nearly everything you've done has positive EV as scum and wholly negative EV as town. Indeed if you are town you have played completely against your win condition. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 28 2012 11:46 VisceraEyes wrote: Everyone take hard look at Bug' last post...phrasing like 'idiotic' and 'atrocious' is designed specifically to infuriated me, as I like to consider myself and Bugs pretty tight generally. If he's town and using this type of language and honestly believes the things he's saying, I have to seriously reconsider that assessment.v :-/ being friends outside of this game has nothing to do with it. If you're playing like an ass I'm going to tell you that you're playing like an ass. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
okay. you go with that, tell me how it goes. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 28 2012 15:05 VisceraEyes wrote: My claim had nothing to do with pressure. My claim had to do with explaining my motivations before being lynched. I don't know if you recall, but I said I wanted to be lynched BEFORE I claimed. Me flipping town absolutely does prove that you're scum Bugs, and everyone is going to realize it when I flip Doctor. Everything I've said is suddenly going to make sense because they don't think I'm scum anymore and you're going to fry. I have faith in town. If you do flip town then the only idiot in postgame will be you, not me. I am town and nothing you do will change that. If you're actually town what you've done so far is not reversible. You take full responsibility for whatever happens afterward. I don't know what town will do but in the 1% chance you flip town I'm confident they won't kill me. To do that would be to throw the game. However, at this point if you're not scum that means scum get a free lynch of a townie today. As town you being okay with that is just perplexing. It would mean there are 3 scum who are not you and not me. Imagine for a second I'm not scum. Who besides me is scum? You haven't done any hunting all game. (and please, calling me scum is by no means scumhunting.) If you are town, why is it that you have chosen to do exactly what you did in Liar Game? Didn't you read the postgame analysis written by Ver, in which he says that merely antagonizing people, even if they are scum, is no way to actually scumhunt? You lose all credibility and if you're wrong it just makes you look like scum. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 28 2012 15:05 VisceraEyes wrote: My claim had nothing to do with pressure. My claim had to do with explaining my motivations before being lynched. I don't know if you recall, but I said I wanted to be lynched BEFORE I claimed. Me flipping town absolutely does prove that you're scum Bugs, and everyone is going to realize it when I flip Doctor. Everything I've said is suddenly going to make sense because they don't think I'm scum anymore and you're going to fry. I have faith in town. you claimed because you wanted to make this about me and you. That's a fucking horrendous reason to claim, and you know it. Since when have you known anybody who flipped town to do that? If you're town and wrong you doom town to lose because you can't get off your tunneling high horse. If you're scum you sacrifice yourself but destroy the thread in the process. Neither makes much sense, but the latter is far more plausible given that the scumteam wouldn't lose in such a situation. Scum win either way...so how can you seriously argue that what you're doing is in the favor of town? | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
99% chance. Looking at the vote count from the previous page I'm incredibly confident. Looking at the nonvoter pool and then at the pool on you and it's a no-brainer. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
If I was a miller, scum framed me n1 and then a DT checked me and got back green. Scum would be like WTF looool | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 29 2012 06:33 Katina wrote: You know what would be hilarious? Is if that wasn't a useless post. The hilarious part is the irony in this post. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
whatever, wasting time now is not the way to win the game. I'm curious as to those players who simply jumped on the wagon without really doing anything else. The person who stands out most is still katina to me, but we'll have to see, I guess.N_T said a few weird things and if Katina's town and just super inactive it makes more sense that she's attacking him. In addition, N_T's claim looks less plausible in light of VE flipping medic and froggy being confirmed, simply on balance grounds. It's not impossible and I don't think we should lynch NT solely on that but I think it's something we should consider. Froggy you're almost certainly dead tonight. If you could post your reads that would be nice. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
like, really, wtf has gotten into you? | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
VE was lynched not because of his plan. That's fairly obvious. His notion that I am scum was moronic. He was lynched because he claimed doctor under no lynch pressure merely to ensure that I get lynched afterward. He had no DT check of me. He had no reason at all to call me scum. He was nothing more than dumb. If you are town how do you not see this? | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Partly the reason I was and still am suspicious of Katina is because she was in that game and yet so far said nothing about VE. She has refused to comment on him at all. On day 1 of that game VE basically did the exact same thing he did in this game. He began to insistently call me scum for no particular reason, and continually poked and prodded me without explanation. He went so far as to include Ace as well on his list of scum (also for no reason; his stated reasons were "I don't like their play/attitude"). My number 1 target on d1 in Liar Game wasn't even VE; it was sandro. Because of his atrociously bad play I decided to call for his death as well. This game has been more of the same. VE blew up over me saying once that I considered him scum. It's as if he couldn't handle that singular accusation. Since that I haven't really even been pushing VE as scum. If you look at my votes I never even considered voting VE until he decided to inexplicably claim doctor in a situation in which (I thought) no real doctor would ever ever claim. It was such a bad claim that you have to kill the person over it, because it's so fucking antitown. It was like the Toad vet claim from LI on d2; it served no purpose for a townie and merely introduced a huge element of WTF. Just think about it; in what past games have you seen a town doctor with 0 votes on him claim a few hours into d3, or any day for that matter? When do town doctors ever claim if not to save themselves from lynch? Scum use claims to keep themselves alive and push their agenda. Townies should only ever claim when town benefit more from the information than scum do. In this case obviously scum benefited far more because from a townie perspective you have no idea whether VE is telling the truth or not. This is why I kept alluding back to Liar Game, because I hoped that if he was town VE would at the very least listen to what Incog had to say, if not to me. In Liar Game's postgame discussion, this is what I am referring to: On May 25 2012 13:49 Ver wrote: Incognito's Analysis: wherebugsgo makes a good case on sandroba, which is exactly the case EchelonTee should have been pushing (Hint: if ET doesn't jump on to wbg's case something fishy is going on here). Turns out ET comes back to the thread with a massive post on VE, who is the other potential lynch candidate for the day. Fortunately for him, nobody catches this discrepancy, his post is ignored, and he survives until...the end game? This is one of the easiest mafia you will find. Day 1 Round A had an attrocious atmosphere, and the orgainzation in Round B was pretty bad too. There was no consensus on who to lynch, and VE turned out to be the last minute lynch as Radfield came in at the last minute with enough votes on prplhz to change the lynch from prplhz to VE. Ironically, out of rage, VE actually killed himself because of his 5 votes for sandroba. If he didn't do that, sandroba would have died instead of VE and the game would have turned out a lot differently. Note that this isn't the only time sandroba is going to be saved by an enraged townie - Cephiro makes the same mistake announcing 5 votes for sandroba on day 5, which further helped the Harimoto cult and didn't force them to make a decision on whether to save sandroba or not. VE's death also shows how you shouldn't be playing town. VE provoked wbg all game, but wasn't even wbg's prime target. I think it would be likely that sandroba would have been lynched day 1 if it weren't for VE's insistence that wbg was mafia, which pretty much turned the whole town against him. It didn't take much manipulation from the mafia to get him lynched instead of sandroba at this point. If you're going to antagonize people, you have to do it with a purpose. Just repeatedly saying "you're scum bro" isn't going to get you anywhere, even if he does turn out to be mafia. Even though VE eventually gives a reason why he thinks wbg is mafia, its hard to actually take his posts seriously as a whole. Credibility is important. You can't expect to go around flinging mud at people and not being held accountable for it. Note the bolded. This is exactly what happened again this game. I thought that VE had learned his lesson and because I was seeing the same thing again, it meant VE had to be scum. Why on earth would he make the same mistake twice? But nope, I overestimated VE and honestly his play was atrocious. He did exactly what he was told not to do and he repeated his mistake in possibly an even worse manner than in Liar. In this game he was a power role and he threw away not only his life but also his ability to help town win with protects. I would probably bet the reason he didn't protect marvellosity is because I said marvellosity should be protected. Because he was too thick headed to see the truth I think he didn't protect marvellosity because he thought me saying marvellosity was going to die would mean scum weren't shooting him. Anyway, this is all a bit irrelevant right now. What is relevant is that Katina has so far had nothing to say on the matter despite being there last game. She saw it happen and she saw similar events unfolding like I did this game. Yet, so far she has done absolutely nothing. Then, you have Mattchew, who seems to almost be feigning outrage. I prefer Katina over Mattchew right now, but both are acting really strangely. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 29 2012 09:59 Mattchew wrote: I am playing the hand we were dealt WBG... I believe that playing with a player of the caliber of VE that his main read for like 2/3 of the game is almost as good (if not arguably better) than a DT check man I wouldn't trust VE's reads any more than the average player at this point. I assumed he was just having a bad game in Liar but if this is how he is going to continue to play then I can't say that I have that same confidence I used to have when he nailed 3 of us in storm. I was telling the honest truth when I said I prefer SK VE over any other kind, because that was the last time I actually saw him use his brain. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 29 2012 09:54 Mattchew wrote: So now you realize that it was moronic to lynch VE instead of NT/Hiro... cool I didn't see you opposing it. So you were completely fine going along with it, but when push comes to shove and someone has to take responsibility it's not you, right? Cause you have no spine. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 29 2012 09:59 Mattchew wrote: I am playing the hand we were dealt WBG... I believe that playing with a player of the caliber of VE that his main read for like 2/3 of the game is almost as good (if not arguably better) than a DT check go read Liar Game d1. VE's top two reads were Ace and myself. We both fucking flipped town. | ||
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wherebugsgo
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