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On May 26 2012 07:38 VisceraEyes wrote:
You realize that when you say things like "anyone with half a brain" you're demeaning whoever it is that you're talking to right? Like, I know you're not this abrasive out of game, so that's part of why I feel like you're playing with an agenda Bugs, that's all I'm saying.
Now, I'm against directing vigs (as always) aside from saying they should be shooting into lurkers (who include at the moment Acid and Katina among others)....so I'm definitely not against THAT, but that's not at all what you said...you were talking about them in the context of "our next lynch". When you talk about them in that context, it makes it seem like you want them to live the night Bugs, so it didn't appear at all like you were directing vigs.
yes, I'm calling you dumb right now because playing with you in this game and having to consider that you might be town is causing me to lose brain cells.
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and yes, I am instigating you now because I am a little annoyed that I've been blamed for being part of the trouble so far.
I'll cool off in a bit, but it's honestly frustrating to have to deal with you when you play the way you do.
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well I don't know if we have vigis or not.
Vigis and lynch targets should always be the same, because both are aiming for the same goal; to kill scum.
I never understood why people made the distinction between vig shots and lynches. The only difference really is that one person controls a vig shot and the entire town and scum combined control the lynch. Otherwise the goal for both sides is the same; aim the KP at the opposite faction.
Thus if a player is a good lynch they make a good shot and vice versa.
So, vigis, shoot at katina and acid, if they live we kill them tomorrow.
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I'd actually much rather play with SK VE than town or scum VE, tbh with you.
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sure, I agree.
but remember that from a town hiro perspective he's going to be tunneled on zealos solely because of the pressure, right? So from his experience he's not going to have the ability nor the time to scumhunt much. So regardless of his actual alignment the attack is going to destroy his d2 because he's going to do almost nothing but just OMGUS Zealos.
Like, look at how VE's attack on me has affected my play. I can't shake or ignore his attacks because I don't know what his alignment is. I have to consider that they might be genuine and so I need to respond to things that are brought up. If he is scum then what does that say about me? Again, it could say almost anything if you just consider player interaction.
That's why I think we need time to consider hiro's behavior on its own. Based on how slow stuff goes in this town I don't think it'd be a great idea to lynch hiro tomorrow because the turnaround would be too fast.
I'm curious as to what hiro has to say about all of this.
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On May 26 2012 07:46 VisceraEyes wrote:
If you want me to leave just say so - the power is in your hands completely. I play because I enjoy it, but if it's making others' experience less enjoyable then I'll fucking leave, no big shakes.
You want me to fucking leave Bugs? I mean, I'm going to be playing here and the chances of me being SK VE are pretty fucking slim, so what the fuck
town VE wouldn't leave, now would he?
I don't know what you wish to accomplish by exaggerating things and creating drama, but when you make ultimatums like "it's going to be between me and you" and "we're going to have to settle this eventually" and stupid stuff like that, then it's clear to me that you have an agenda.
If your agenda is to kill me then I can confidently say it's anti-town. I can't say for sure if it's pro-scum since I need to see you play more games. Your last game proved that you're more than willing to simply go against the grain just because you believe the person who is going for the grain is scum. It's irrational from my perspective, but perhaps to you it makes some sort of sense as town. I have no idea. Since I saw that I have reservations about calling you scum. I also know that if you are scum and I retaliate it can result in the nuclear destruction of this thread, much worse than what has happened already. I know that from LI.
So, put yourself in my shoes. What would you do?
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so you become mad when I don't respond to you.
Then you become even madder when I actually do respond to you?
I was right, absolutely nothing I do can ever convince you that I am town. Which means you are scum.
@Marvellosity: I'm looking through both Hiro's and Zealos's filters now. I think you may have a valid point about hiro but I want to be cautious, which is why I'm reluctant to lynch hiro tomorrow. I am much more confident about Acid, but if Acid is shot tonight and flips scum then we might be in a good spot.
What's interesting in hiro's filter is that he doesn't really mention Zealos at all ever until d2 when he takes your case and votes with it. It could very well have been a bus as there were so many votes on Zealos. As hiro was one of the earliest votes on zealos that would make him a prime candidate to be scum with him, since when scum bus they usually put one or two buddies on the wagon (one early and one later) and then put the fourth guy somewhere else, sometimes even soft defending the bussed guy.
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On May 26 2012 08:00 VisceraEyes wrote:
Like, here's what I don't get...the moment I start trying to forget that Bugs is scum so the thread can get something accomplished, THIS is when Bugs loses HIS cool and starts to "retaliate"...
That's false and you know it.
I've been relatively cool and collected until now where Bugs is concerned, and have been asking his opinion on stuff. While it's true that I've thrown in the occasional "but ur next" and "but ur still scum" or whatever, I thought the smileys made it evident that I'm trying to move past what my tunnel-mode was doing to my play earlier.
Also false, you've sworn at me at least five or six times. You have been far from cool and collected.
So why NOW? Why would Bugs suddenly give a shit about my play NOW when I'm trying to move past it? That's what I'm meditating on as I go smoke a cigarette. :S
Because after 40 or 50 posts of the same tired bullshit, anyone can get pissed off.
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On May 21 2012 05:12 Tunkeg wrote:
That was a pretty quick start after we were full.
Anyways I have decided to play this game in a different manner then before. And if I can make it work I will continue in the games to follow.
Previous games
The Tunkeg of old was all about reaction based reads, which meant that I would provoke certain players to get a reaction. I would have a hypothesis about how they would respond as town and how they would respond as scum, and work off off that. The way I would do this was:
A: Suggest some kind of plan (or taking sides, and arguing for or against if someone else proposed a plan).
B: Picking fights.
Why change it up?
Even though I think it was a great way of finding scum for me. It wasn’t necessarily good for town. Many times it took up to much space, and some might even label it as disruptive. It have also led me close to being lynched many times, and often put me on the defensive straight from the get go. Constantly defending yourself makes it hard to put effort into proper scumhunting.
So what am I changing it to?
My goal in these games is to figure people out. Sure I definitely want to win, I hate losing, but more than winning I want to be right. To be right I will need to focus on my analysis, instead of fighting. What this means is:
1. I will not be posting as much as before. I will try to post better and longer posts though. And less one liners and useless crap. I will try to format my posts better.
2. I will control my temper. I will not be getting into any fights, I won’t be starting any and I will try not to get pulled into one. This also means I won’t be spending a lot of time defending my actions. If my posts are scummy you lynch me, if my posts aren’t you don’t .
3. I will try to post better analysis, and avoid insulting the ones I analyze. Again, I will try to post quality posts, and not many posts, meaning I won’t spend my time defending my analysis, I can clarify, but I won’t argue with nitpickers.
lynch all liars.
the fucking dick strikes again
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also btw I'm going to direct medics.
Protect marvellosity. Don't touch me. Don't touch VE. Maybe consider Mattchew. But really, protect marvellosity. If he's scum at this point then I don't particularly care because I'm actually enjoying playing with him.
I'm willing to die because if I die then at least then I'll be confirmed town.
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not that I don't enjoy playing with the rest of you  but he can scumhunt!
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On May 26 2012 08:11 Tunkeg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2012 08:09 wherebugsgo wrote:On May 21 2012 05:12 Tunkeg wrote:
That was a pretty quick start after we were full.
Anyways I have decided to play this game in a different manner then before. And if I can make it work I will continue in the games to follow.
Previous games
The Tunkeg of old was all about reaction based reads, which meant that I would provoke certain players to get a reaction. I would have a hypothesis about how they would respond as town and how they would respond as scum, and work off off that. The way I would do this was:
A: Suggest some kind of plan (or taking sides, and arguing for or against if someone else proposed a plan).
B: Picking fights.
Why change it up?
Even though I think it was a great way of finding scum for me. It wasn’t necessarily good for town. Many times it took up to much space, and some might even label it as disruptive. It have also led me close to being lynched many times, and often put me on the defensive straight from the get go. Constantly defending yourself makes it hard to put effort into proper scumhunting.
So what am I changing it to?
My goal in these games is to figure people out. Sure I definitely want to win, I hate losing, but more than winning I want to be right. To be right I will need to focus on my analysis, instead of fighting. What this means is:
1. I will not be posting as much as before. I will try to post better and longer posts though. And less one liners and useless crap. I will try to format my posts better.
2. I will control my temper. I will not be getting into any fights, I won’t be starting any and I will try not to get pulled into one. This also means I won’t be spending a lot of time defending my actions. If my posts are scummy you lynch me, if my posts aren’t you don’t .
3. I will try to post better analysis, and avoid insulting the ones I analyze. Again, I will try to post quality posts, and not many posts, meaning I won’t spend my time defending my analysis, I can clarify, but I won’t argue with nitpickers.
lynch all liars. the fucking dick strikes again You want to have WBG modkilled as well the marv? Equality or?
what, for insulting myself, or mocking you?
mad scum is mad sounds like
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On May 26 2012 08:13 Tunkeg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2012 08:09 wherebugsgo wrote:On May 21 2012 05:12 Tunkeg wrote:
That was a pretty quick start after we were full.
Anyways I have decided to play this game in a different manner then before. And if I can make it work I will continue in the games to follow.
Previous games
The Tunkeg of old was all about reaction based reads, which meant that I would provoke certain players to get a reaction. I would have a hypothesis about how they would respond as town and how they would respond as scum, and work off off that. The way I would do this was:
A: Suggest some kind of plan (or taking sides, and arguing for or against if someone else proposed a plan).
B: Picking fights.
Why change it up?
Even though I think it was a great way of finding scum for me. It wasn’t necessarily good for town. Many times it took up to much space, and some might even label it as disruptive. It have also led me close to being lynched many times, and often put me on the defensive straight from the get go. Constantly defending yourself makes it hard to put effort into proper scumhunting.
So what am I changing it to?
My goal in these games is to figure people out. Sure I definitely want to win, I hate losing, but more than winning I want to be right. To be right I will need to focus on my analysis, instead of fighting. What this means is:
1. I will not be posting as much as before. I will try to post better and longer posts though. And less one liners and useless crap. I will try to format my posts better.
2. I will control my temper. I will not be getting into any fights, I won’t be starting any and I will try not to get pulled into one. This also means I won’t be spending a lot of time defending my actions. If my posts are scummy you lynch me, if my posts aren’t you don’t .
3. I will try to post better analysis, and avoid insulting the ones I analyze. Again, I will try to post quality posts, and not many posts, meaning I won’t spend my time defending my analysis, I can clarify, but I won’t argue with nitpickers.
lynch all liars. the fucking dick strikes again This was before you started your BM crusade. And in fact I won't be picking fights, just to not shit up the thread, cause if I were to respond to every insult from you in this game, it would have been 20 pages of shitslining. So I'll leave it at that. I am playing to my winconditions by not replying to you anymore, and by sheeping VE.
I'd love to see quotes of my apparent BM crusade.
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hahaha this is fun though actually. Tunkeg actually seems mad and I didn't even do anything.
It's almost funnier than when I try to make someone mad when I'm scum.
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On May 26 2012 08:17 VisceraEyes wrote:
The opposite - he's trying to implant the idea that what he's doing now and the thing he mentioned look different when in fact they're exactly the same. Subtle psychology thing.
rofl
manipulative wbg strikes again
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On May 26 2012 08:20 Tunkeg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2012 08:18 marvellosity wrote:
I think you mistake BM for aggressive. It's an extremely rare thing indeed where I will directly insult someone.
Anyway, are we going to do some scumhunting today or are we going to wait for tomorrow?
Who do people think are good lynch targets at the moment? Aggressive is good, and fine. If you make it with points. I would like to see you in any setting go up to someone and call them stupid, and not expect at least being called a dick.
So this is going to be a little game irrelevant, but it's true for me.
this is a game, a game based on logic, information, emotion, and a variety of other things.
Players like Palmar and I (among others) are quite aggressive in our approach, yes. I mention Palmar because he's probably the player I played most similarly to, simply through the number of games I played with him and the effectiveness of his style (though I didn't necessarily try to emulate his play). It's a style I use in debates as well; I'm not afraid to attack moral implications of certain beliefs or worldviews because I have a strong conviction for standing up for what one believes in. So far this game, though, I've refrained from using this style because newer players on the forum don't always respond the same way to it that older players did, and it renders the style somewhat ineffective.
Up till about three pages ago I hadn't done anything in my normal style. I've been attacked on meta grounds for not being aggressive before as town. DFM2 comes to mind. LI comes to mind. Those are my recent town games.
This game I wasn't attacked on meta grounds but I have been attacked for apparently being aggressive when I haven't been (which has made me really amused). It means one or a mixture of three things; I'm somehow aggressive without trying to, or I've cracked and I've started letting things slip, or I'm being misrepresented.
I think it may be a mixture of all 3 but up till about 2-3 pages ago I don't think I had done anything to provoke anyone, until I called VE's argument trash and then the half brain comments.
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On May 26 2012 08:26 VisceraEyes wrote:
Well, the timing of his lapse into normal posting was troubling...like, the thread was in shambles because of me and bugs and his answer was.....to stop posting concisely and shit up the thread further?
...
...
...
Like...I don't know, it doesn't make sense. Also his absolute certainty that Bugs being town like ALL game mystifies me considering the lengths bugs has gone to to not talk about his reads and shit.
I think the only person who's talked about reads more extensively than I have this game is marvellosity.
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On May 26 2012 08:30 VisceraEyes wrote:
Selectively not responding to people is provocation Bugs, you conveniently don't mention that - as it's something you admit to doing and was the whole reason I started considering you scum in the first place...or have you forgotten?
playing on a need to know basis isn't provocation, it's a tactic. If everyone were fully transparent with their reads the thread would be at 200 pages and scum would win simply by people not reading the thread anymore.
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On May 26 2012 08:31 VisceraEyes wrote:
The townie thing to do is to comment on a claim Bugs, you're literally trying to make town buy that AS scum Katina wouldn't be trying to emmulate town play and actually CHOSE to not mention Zealos' claim.
As scum, the IDEA is to emmulate town play, so if I were scum and in Katina's position, I'd have ABSOLUTELY mentioned Zealos' claim, the very notion that scum wouldn't is absolutely ludicrous to me.
the townie thing to do is comment on the claim.
Therefore, not commenting on the claim makes katina town.
Hahaha you make it incredibly difficult for me not to mock you sometimes.
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might I add that I don't believe Katina's scum play is incredibly strong?
Her town play is very very strong. She emulates Foolishness, and honestly she does it incredibly well.
When we were scum in Arkham City together you recall how she played? That was her first game and for the most part she just stayed under the radar. That's what she's been trying to do this game.
In games where as town she gets accused, Katina is willing to get her hands dirty. Sure, she doesn't respond nearly as much as other players, but she at the very least DOES respond. She doesn't try to feign that her posts are of quality when they're not, such as in this case.
I'm not convinced that she's scum but I'd much rather kill katina over most of the other players in the game right now, probably even tunkeg. Acid goes first IMO though, he's almost definitely scum.
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EPT
