EPTTL Mafia LV - Page 94
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On June 01 2012 06:13 marvellosity wrote: I fucking detest this 'let's get it over with' sentiment that both wbg and Toad have expressed on this page. It makes my blood curdle. I'm merrily sitting on the fence whether VE is town or scum. In the past I've voted to lynch him twice, and he was town, and in LI I didn't vote to lynch him, and he was scum. There's things I don't like about VE - the Zealos issue, and his meta case on kita, but there is waaaaaaaay too much stuff being read as a narrative. Almost anyone's filter can be made to read scummily if you want it to, but everything he says is being fit to this narrative without looking at the alternative. There's really too much "oh, might as well". Does everyone voting VE genuinely believe he's scum? Obviously this isn't aimed at kita/MZ/Toad, but the rest of you. Is he the best chance of flipping scum for today or are you being led by vocal people? Are you suspicious of Kitaman independently Marv? | ||
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
On June 01 2012 06:12 papapanda wrote: Grush, if you starsense is telling you VE is not scum, don't vote for him...vote for who you believe to be scum; I would recommend wriggles(long as its not me) Gambit didn't respond yet, if he ninjas today he is dead tomorrow. The only reliable way I can think of to confirm VE is 1)tell him who to shoot 2)someone protect the target 3) target tells us whats up. Before you post comments on why this is a stupid plan, I want to say that I agree it's a stupid plan and this is not going to happen tonight because so many things can go wrong. #Vote:VE You want him to vote wiggles, but you vote VE? | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On June 01 2012 06:15 VisceraEyes wrote: Are you suspicious of Kitaman independently Marv? Not really - the reason I didn't like your meta case is that actually I can find a few instances where he's critically looking at people. Posts I could happily put against your town kita post and think they're similar. I think you've made too much of his odd Hyach start and lyncher stuff. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On June 01 2012 06:13 marvellosity wrote: I fucking detest this 'let's get it over with' sentiment that both wbg and Toad have expressed on this page. It makes my blood curdle. I'm merrily sitting on the fence whether VE is town or scum. In the past I've voted to lynch him twice, and he was town, and in LI I didn't vote to lynch him, and he was scum. There's things I don't like about VE - the Zealos issue, and his meta case on kita, but there is waaaaaaaay too much stuff being read as a narrative. Almost anyone's filter can be made to read scummily if you want it to, but everything he says is being fit to this narrative without looking at the alternative. There's really too much "oh, might as well". Does everyone voting VE genuinely believe he's scum? Obviously this isn't aimed at kita/MZ/Toad, but the rest of you. Is he the best chance of flipping scum for today or are you being led by vocal people? The only thing that makes VE look good is Supersoft getting in here telling us VE is 90% mafia and yet getting in here telling people to lynch someone else instead. That's the kind of information I'm talking about and I still think a VE lynch is equally good to a Zealos or Kita lynch. | ||
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papapanda
Taiwan326 Posts
On June 01 2012 06:16 Mattchew wrote: You want him to vote wiggles, but you vote VE? Not in particular, I want him to vote for someone who he thinks is scum from his list of read. And he voted kita so nevermind i guess, just saying that voting for someone who you don't think is scum doesn't make much sense. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On June 01 2012 06:19 papapanda wrote: Not in particular, I want him to vote for someone who he thinks is scum from his list of read. And he voted kita so nevermind i guess, just saying that voting for someone who you don't think is scum doesn't make much sense. In your vote I don't see anything that shows why you believe VE is scum either. This is what I'm talking about. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On June 01 2012 06:02 VisceraEyes wrote: Nonono, I think we can lynch Kita today, flip red, I shoot, I'm not roleblocked for fear of being watched, and I shoot another scum tonight. I come in D3 having EARNED confirmed status, and you get to explain why you wanted to kill me tomorrow while we lynch MZ. That's what I think can happen if we work together. I think you'll have do a fine job of convincing me and town that killing me was a good idea after I'm confirmed, especially if you work with me now. We gotta get there bro, and I think that's the situation we'll be in D3, not people calling for my head. Work with me Toad. No matter who gets hit overnight, you won't ever have earned confirmed status. You can be scum carrying out the NK. Could be an SK. Even if your shot is directed at someone who flips red, it's not some awe-inspiring bus that gets you towncred. You've said it yourself that you really don't have any other option but to shoot our choice of player, so there's no towncred to be gained from hitting scum. On June 01 2012 06:13 marvellosity wrote: There's really too much "oh, might as well". Does everyone voting VE genuinely believe he's scum? Obviously this isn't aimed at kita/MZ/Toad, but the rest of you. Is he the best chance of flipping scum for today or are you being led by vocal people? Marv, when I look at our list of options, nobody jumps out as "scummier than VE" for me. Zealos doesn't look good, G32 doesn't look good but I won't vote for him until we see something about his Mason Recruiter mention. To the extent that other players are options, I don't feel that the cases on them are as strong as that on VE - the kita case is based heavily on meta/lyncher focus D1, and other options like wiggles/strongandbig/anyothernamethat'sbeenthrownout aren't very strong either. I'm not 100% on him, but the alternative right now is just too messy. My sentiment isn't so much "oh, might as well," as it is "dear God, if we don't lynch VE then we roll this mess through the night and into D3, and there's no shiny red alternative lynch option." Lynching for expediency is certainly inferior to lynching for scumminess, but there's a combination here and the fact that any non-VE lynch really just puts this same issue back on the table tomorrow. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On June 01 2012 06:33 austinmcc wrote: No matter who gets hit overnight, you won't ever have earned confirmed status. You can be scum carrying out the NK. Could be an SK. Even if your shot is directed at someone who flips red, it's not some awe-inspiring bus that gets you towncred. You've said it yourself that you really don't have any other option but to shoot our choice of player, so there's no towncred to be gained from hitting scum. Marv, when I look at our list of options, nobody jumps out as "scummier than VE" for me. Zealos doesn't look good, G32 doesn't look good but I won't vote for him until we see something about his Mason Recruiter mention. To the extent that other players are options, I don't feel that the cases on them are as strong as that on VE - the kita case is based heavily on meta/lyncher focus D1, and other options like wiggles/strongandbig/anyothernamethat'sbeenthrownout aren't very strong either. I'm not 100% on him, but the alternative right now is just too messy. My sentiment isn't so much "oh, might as well," as it is "dear God, if we don't lynch VE then we roll this mess through the night and into D3, and there's no shiny red alternative lynch option." Lynching for expediency is certainly inferior to lynching for scumminess, but there's a combination here and the fact that any non-VE lynch really just puts this same issue back on the table tomorrow. Alright, you tell me - what are the things that make YOU think VE is scum? | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
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jaj22
United Kingdom1376 Posts
And yeah, I'm having doubts myself about VE. A lot of his filter looks quite town, even if it's spammy unfocused town. And we'll have to start killing lurkers sometime. If we can't confirm VE one way or another on day 3 it's going to be horrible though. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On June 01 2012 06:39 jaj22 wrote: Tactically speaking, people who don't want to lynch VE should be putting their votes on Zealos unless they'd rather have a no-lynch. The case against Kitaman is weak and he's another veteran-lynch: People are likely to think in terms of the best veteran-lynch vs the best lurker-lynch. And yeah, I'm having doubts myself about VE. A lot of his filter looks quite town, even if it's spammy unfocused town. And we'll have to start killing lurkers sometime. If we can't confirm VE one way or another on day 3 it's going to be horrible though. So you have your doubts and you're willing to lynch a claimed vig, ok | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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papapanda
Taiwan326 Posts
However as I was reading it, I was, using your term, on the fence for VE's lynch. What I didn't like was how he responded to the pressure. He claimed vig, one the the toughest role to prove at this stage of the game. Ofcourse it's possible he is vig, and what ticked for me was what he said about if he was the mafia leader, the mafia would try more to save him...(can't find the post, but I'm pretty certain that I read it today). Wifom doesn't work as defenses...(learned that the hard way last game, marvellosity;p). Anyhow, my point is I find VE scummy and people trying to spread the vote are also worth looking at(hi kenpachi). | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On June 01 2012 06:43 papapanda wrote: Both you and I have read MZ's cases, as well as other posts, can we agree that his points are valid? However as I was reading it, I was, using your term, on the fence for VE's lynch. What I didn't like was how he responded to the pressure. He claimed vig, one the the toughest role to prove at this stage of the game. Ofcourse it's possible he is vig, and what ticked for me was what he said about if he was the mafia leader, the mafia would try more to save him...(can't find the post, but I'm pretty certain that I read it today). Wifom doesn't work as defenses...(learned that the hard way last game, marvellosity;p). Anyhow, my point is I find VE scummy and people trying to spread the vote are also worth looking at(hi kenpachi). what do you find valid in particular? what makes YOU think he's scum? | ||
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