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Because they could get you to do something stupid like lynch a townie or pardon a Mafia or something Toad.
You're running on a platform of independence, right? That means you have to be held accountable for your actions, but here's the problem: if you're in contact with a really good Mafia player like Wiggles or Forumite (<3) who end up being mafia and they convince you to do something like pardon a lynch of a mafia, you can't like - backpedal and say "Well guys, really I was talked into it by XYZ" because the whole point of what you're saying is that you want to be held accountable yourself. So we lynch you and you're what, a Mason? So now what?
No, I'd rather just not even take the chance. Next game bro.
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On May 28 2012 06:55 VisceraEyes wrote:
Also please be aware: this is exactly the same type of play that sandroba made in C9++ that Toadess cohosted. Sandroba flipped Mason because he's baus and the situation was relevant for that game...the situation is totally different here, because if I'm understanding Toad correctly, he CHOOSES who he masons with. This is huge because what if he chooses Mafia and he's town? Obviously the scum would go along with Toad's claim and "confirm" him, but imagine the implications. Toad is using the Mason mechanic, which actually WAS alignment-relevant in C9++, as a means to "confirm" him, not the other players. But that makes you put trust in who he masons with too, whether consciously or not, just by virtue of him being in contact with "modconfirmed Toad".
This role is not one that I want in possession of any additional power. I do not want Toad to be Leader or Vice-Leader. The chance for manipulation is too great.
It seems unreasonable denounce Toad. based on that since as long as you make an effort to remember that fact it won't really matter.
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It doesn't matter - the point is I just don't want EXTRA power in Toad's hands as a result, that's all. I'm not "denouncing"
Toad, I'm giving my opinion on the gamestate.
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On May 28 2012 07:06 VisceraEyes wrote:
Because they could get you to do something stupid like lynch a townie or pardon a Mafia or something Toad.
You're running on a platform of independence, right? That means you have to be held accountable for your actions, but here's the problem: if you're in contact with a really good Mafia player like Wiggles or Forumite (<3) who end up being mafia and they convince you to do something like pardon a lynch of a mafia, you can't like - backpedal and say "Well guys, really I was talked into it by XYZ" because the whole point of what you're saying is that you want to be held accountable yourself. So we lynch you and you're what, a Mason? So now what?
No, I'd rather just not even take the chance. Next game bro.
that will never happen because I only get to talk to people once d2 has started, as already pointed out, therefore I am not being manipulated via QT. Maybe people are trying to manipulate me in here but everyone can see that as well and again I thin I'm good at dealing with manipulation because as mafia I'm really manipulative as well. Not so much with arguments but rather with making people believe something based on emotions and wording. So I think I can deal with that.
If I get pardoner I will NEVER EVER use it. Simple as that and there's no need to talk about this because every townie should treat it as that, unless maybe you're getting lynched yourself. So no manipulation there either.
Also I have a super secret I haven't told about my super awesome powers which works against manipulation.
So long story short: I don't thin I'm in danger of being manipulated.
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You still might be able to be manipulated in terms of where you would use the extra mayor vote.
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nah I'm going to be shot lol
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I disagree, and we'll leave it at that. I'm well aware of how our arguments balloon.
I still want town to not vote for Toad, based on the risk involved alone. I want a pardoner who we can lynch if he uses the power improperly. It's a tool that should be used if the situation arises and I think denying it from Town is borne of the same paranoia I'm sure to be accused of for thinking Toad will be manipulated.
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On May 28 2012 07:18 VisceraEyes wrote:
I disagree, and we'll leave it at that. I'm well aware of how our arguments balloon.
I still want town to not vote for Toad, based on the risk involved alone. I want a pardoner who we can lynch if he uses the power improperly. It's a tool that should be used if the situation arises and I think denying it from Town is borne of the same paranoia I'm sure to be accused of for thinking Toad will be manipulated.
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there is no risk involved. If You are scared I'm a lyncher fine with me.
But there is no risk involed when talking about manipulation and I have a good damn reason to say so.
And if I ever use the Pardoner, NO MATTER WHAT (unless you guys want to lynch me :3) feel free to lynch me because that will NEVER happen and again I HAVE A REASON to say I'm not going to be manipulated so for christs sake just trust me once.
I know you don't like trusting other people but you seem to post like you take me for a townie and not a lyncher yet you don't want to vote me or want someone else to vote me because of that manipulation crap. It's not going to happen, EVER.
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On May 28 2012 05:58 supersoft wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2012 05:52 VisceraEyes wrote:
I don't share Toadesstern's reservations about ET. I think he's been fairly open and honest, and I don't see how those things can be construed as 'manipulative'. While it's true that some of his points about "The State of TL Towns" is superficially easy to say as scum, you have to bear in mind the motivation for making such a post. First of all, he now has to be held accountable for any style of posting that goes against this philosophy...if he starts wigging out and being hyper-aggressive then we can point to his campaign post and say "?!".
Add to that the fact that by and large I agree with most of what he's pushing and I'm willing to give him a shot. I think that if he really is scum, it's going to be hard to hide that fact if he's given 2 votes and a free lynch today - which he's promised to use by 'scumhunting'...another factor we can hold him to come the end of the day.
I don't think these things are "easy for mafia" to say at all, and I think Toadesstern is the one being manipulative here.
##FoS: Toadesstern
If you really are about to be "confirmed" * then you're going to need to step up your game sir. Put more thought into your accusations than a tertiary glance if you hope to be of any use before you're "probably targeted by n2 or n3". good example for a completely nontelling post. You FoS Toadesstern?! because you disagree with him regarding this ET guy? What is your plan?! What do you want? Toad claimed Mason; he reacted kind of okay when i pressured him (regarding that he's mason his reaction actually is okay). Please, make a plan and dont pressure around randomly. We got everything from toad he has to offer right now. Badluck he seems to be mason and we forced him to claim that. I´m glad to hear that I was pressuring Toades so much that it forced him to claim. Oh wait...
On May 28 2012 05:12 Toadesstern wrote:
And just to make this clear: I'm not a lyncher but even if you are scared about it I don't understand why.
But I'll make sure that the guy I want to lynch is the best guy to lynch anyways. On May 28 2012 05:13 Toadesstern wrote:
and for the first update (although I'm only on page now and I'm trippleposting): ET seems like a decent lynch right now, but nowhere clear on that one yet. When you, one of my stronger scumreads, accuse ET, one of my stronger townreads, of being scum then I´m having a hard time taking you seriously Toades.
I´m with VE on this, I don´t want more power to Toades.
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Supersoft, why did you accuse Toades at first, then turn around and support him? What changed?
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On May 28 2012 07:11 Toadesstern wrote:
Also I have a super secret I haven't told about my super awesome powers which works against manipulation.
Ugh, AC flashbacks.
I'm not really feeling this ET case. The main arcs seem to be:
1. Manipulating newbies by... promising to listen to them and not just dismiss them as useless? Fine by me. Wish everyone did that.
2. Overstating the importance of the elected roles. True, but I'm not sure how this is a scumtell.
3. Not having much in his filter apart from mayor-agenda. Yeah, because it's all from three hours into the game.
Not that ET's filter is squeaky clean (the part where he draws BH away from strongandbig is particularly interesting), but as you should have noticed, it's tough to campaign without doing anything suspicious.
On that note, I'd be surprised if scum made much of an attempt at the elections. Without bodyguards, the risk (from campaign scrutiny) surely outweighs the reward. I think only the most ballsy scum players would bother.
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
Are you running for mayor jaj?
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On May 28 2012 07:39 jaj22 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2012 07:11 Toadesstern wrote:
Also I have a super secret I haven't told about my super awesome powers which works against manipulation.
Ugh, AC flashbacks. I'm not really feeling this ET case. The main arcs seem to be: 1. Manipulating newbies by... promising to listen to them and not just dismiss them as useless? Fine by me. Wish everyone did that. 2. Overstating the importance of the elected roles. True, but I'm not sure how this is a scumtell. 3. Not having much in his filter apart from mayor-agenda. Yeah, because it's all from three hours into the game. Not that ET's filter is squeaky clean (the part where he draws BH away from strongandbig is particularly interesting), but as you should have noticed, it's tough to campaign without doing anything suspicious. On that note, I'd be surprised if scum made much of an attempt at the elections. Without bodyguards, the risk (from campaign scrutiny) surely outweighs the reward. I think only the most ballsy scum players would bother.
1) is not manipulative toward newbies but towards everyone else.
2) well It's a mior point if he keeps ignoring contribution and talks about non-isssues instead
3) yeah agree
About the last phrase: I'd say we should definitly look into people running for election without having a serious chance or without taking it serious. BH and Sinensis come to my mind on that matter because noone is going to vote something like that although it looks "brave" to troll like that because they'll get heat for that either way. So I agree, if someone is in that grey zone of "I am running for mayor" but isn't really that would be something to look for as well.
On the first phrase: What alignment did I have in AC? :p
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On May 28 2012 07:46 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2012 07:39 jaj22 wrote:On May 28 2012 07:11 Toadesstern wrote:
Also I have a super secret I haven't told about my super awesome powers which works against manipulation.
Ugh, AC flashbacks. I'm not really feeling this ET case. The main arcs seem to be: 1. Manipulating newbies by... promising to listen to them and not just dismiss them as useless? Fine by me. Wish everyone did that. 2. Overstating the importance of the elected roles. True, but I'm not sure how this is a scumtell. 3. Not having much in his filter apart from mayor-agenda. Yeah, because it's all from three hours into the game. Not that ET's filter is squeaky clean (the part where he draws BH away from strongandbig is particularly interesting), but as you should have noticed, it's tough to campaign without doing anything suspicious. On that note, I'd be surprised if scum made much of an attempt at the elections. Without bodyguards, the risk (from campaign scrutiny) surely outweighs the reward. I think only the most ballsy scum players would bother. 1) is not manipulative toward newbies but towards everyone else. 2) well It's a minor point if he keeps ignoring contribution and talks about non-isssues instead 3) yeah agree About the last phrase: I'd say we should definitly look into people running for election without having a serious chance or without taking it serious. BH and Sinensis come to my mind on that matter because noone is going to vote something like that although it looks "brave" to troll like that because they'll get heat for that either way. So I agree, but if someone is in that grey zone of "I am running for mayor" but isn't really that would be something to look for as well. On the first phrase: What alignment did I have in AC? :p
EBWOP
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If you guys are unsure about Toad being pardoner, I'm fine with being it. I won't use the "POWAH."
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On May 28 2012 07:40 kitaman27 wrote:
Are you running for mayor jaj?
I'm not inclined to because I don't deal well with the spotlight, even as town. I lose sleep and then I can't think straight. If people really think the other mayor choices are bad then feel free to vote me.
My other concern is that the closest thing I have to a scum read so far is a guy with a two-line post. It's possible that scum aren't bothering to contribute, given that they have plenty of town no-shows to hide amongst.
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On May 28 2012 07:55 jaj22 wrote:I'm not inclined to because I don't deal well with the spotlight, even as town. I lose sleep and then I can't think straight. If people really think the other mayor choices are bad then feel free to vote me. My other concern is that the closest thing I have to a scum read so far is a guy with a two-line post. It's possible that scum aren't bothering to contribute, given that they have plenty of town no-shows to hide amongst.
Yeah there are atleast 10 people(From what I counted) with 2 or less posts.
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Skimmed the thread.
If no scum went for/are going for election, then town is in a great position. Think TL Mafia L; sure there were bodyguards, and sure BM ended up being pardoner, but he was put in office by Foolishness, while BC and Protactinium were the top 3 vote getters. The amount of control they held because they all ran for office meant that scum was completely scared of shooting any of them, even though (if I recall) Foolishness didn't even have protection until N3 or something.
The reason why I mention TL L is that Toad's mason claim reminds me of that game. The reason why mason claiming (by BC) was a good idea because of 1. multiple masons and 2. bodyguards. I'm going to assume there aren't tons of masons in the game atm as otherwise a few of them would've jumped on Toad's claim. And 2 doesn't apply here obviously; BC's claim (and subsequent installment as mayor) was good because it put him in a position of safety while he could use his mason power to prove his innocence to others, and form a town circle. Since Toad has no protection, if he is actually town mason then he will be on docket to be gunned down. We don't know if we have medics. We might even only have a jailer, who would role block him (I think).
Toad, does Mason choose a target at night, or at the start of day or something like that? Can you be RB'd?
Does jailer protect from 1KP, or all KP?
I fail to see why you claimed in this case, Toad. If you are actually mason, this increases the likelihood that you will be shot. If you are scum, then you unnecessarily brought in expectations on you to do this or that. If mason targets at night, you could even claim "RB'd". TBH this reminds me of your vet claim; an unneeded, poorly thought out claim that outted you as scum. In this case though, a mason is a strange role.
The other thing is; the only reason why you want the election is 1. to lynch "scum" and 2. because you're townie. Can't you just make a case on someone (which you have at this point) and lynch them that way? If everyone disagrees with you (surprisingly...), then perhaps your case is bad, but you would like the mayoral power to just lynch whoever the hell you want. I don't see how this is supposed to convince us of your towniness.
Overall, your claim/mayorship have successfully put the thread into minor confusion. I could easily see you doing this from an anti-town perspective, but I'll re-read a few times before making a judgement.
I'm also pretty surprised that no one sheeped Toad's case. Strange.
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Anyway I am super serious about running. To my credit, I think I'd make a better lyncher than pardoner based on my temperament (Liar Game comes to mind as extreme example of me exerting power over a lynch while Election comes to mind as example of using observation and decisiveness early game.)
In short, I think I prefer myself as Leader and ET as VL as the attitude he's displaying now is kinda exactly what I'd like to see in a pardoner.
Be honest guys, what do you think?
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On May 28 2012 07:52 grush57 wrote:
If you guys are unsure about Toad being pardoner, I'm fine with being it. I won't use the "POWAH."
why are you more likely to not use the power than I am when we both said we won't use it?
Is your word better than mine for people who don't know what your alignment is because I look like a mafia?
Surely the discussion right now is either lyncher or town for my alignment.
I mean it's completly wrong to assume I'm a lyncher but let's just take it for granted for a second: Do you think a lyncher would ever use that power? No he wants to survive as long as possible to gets his lynch target lynched and doesn't care about someone else. Why would I use that power as lyncher? That would lose me the game instantly.
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EPT
