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Pick Your Power: Redux
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hiro protagonist
1249 Posts
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hiro protagonist
1249 Posts
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hiro protagonist
1249 Posts
@mattchew the problem with assigning all the roles is that there are roles that we dont want mafia to know who has it AKA doctor/cop/ext. I think a well thought out listing of teired roles sould be used after the denial roles. That way, there should be less overlap of town roles picked, and Mafia does not know who has what. something like picks 1-4 = denial roles 5-10 = tier 1 roles 11-15 = tier 2 roles 16-20 = tier 3 roles whats everyones thoughts on that? | ||
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hiro protagonist
1249 Posts
On May 15 2012 02:11 risk.nuke wrote: I don't like it. It's just making it easier for the mafia to get powerroles they want. Remember they only got 4 picks. The point of a tiered system is to maximize the amount of roles town gets. Without some kind of picking plan, we could end up with alot of Vanilla townies. also, we are still denying OP mafia roles. | ||
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hiro protagonist
1249 Posts
On May 15 2012 02:26 risk.nuke wrote: No. It will just allow scum to pick freely in lower tires and aside from assisting the scum locate which blues are where multiple people in the in the same tier will likely accidently go for the same role and end up vanilla anyway . hmm, ok, I see your point. I still think its a good idea to list the roles in order of importance, but I will dewell on a better idea to impliment it... | ||
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hiro protagonist
1249 Posts
CPR, while powerful, has no way of traseing its kill, so its not an accountable role like the others are. If scum get #1 pick and we tell him to take CPR, he can just grap something else powerful, and leave cpr for his buddy down at the bottom. | ||
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hiro protagonist
1249 Posts
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hiro protagonist
1249 Posts
So how about this, we deny the role by having CPR on the the pick list, and then we have the assigied RBer RB em till we are sure of alignment. Should the first lynch drop vanilla, we Doc the CPR so copycat becomes a non issue. The only hole with this plan is if both the roleblocker and CPR end up in Mafia hands, whitch is highly unlikely. | ||
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hiro protagonist
1249 Posts
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hiro protagonist
1249 Posts
If mafia get RB and town get CPR: Townie does not shoot anyways. if mafia does not RB him, next morning CPR goes "hey! i wasent RBed last night!" = dead scum. If mafia get CPR and town gets RB, then mafias best power is constatly roleblocked = good for us. the issue is if mafia is suposed to pick CPR, but then grabs something else, and lets his buddy down the line grab it... | ||
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hiro protagonist
1249 Posts
On May 15 2012 04:52 Toadesstern wrote: that's why I assigned #1 AND #2 to pick CPR as a fool safety and we don't have that problem. The CPR shoots the RB (at least) the first night and if we force the RB to make what we want to to do, not by teling him what to do but by forcing him to do it or he's toast. That sounds awesome to me. Only way this could go wrong is a no-lynch or a mafia ending up with #1 draft in which case any plan to deny mafia the strongest role would fail, because they can simply pick it. no, because there are other RB that we cant acount for, so we should have the CPR hold his shot. What happens if someone RBs the RBer? ... exactly | ||
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hiro protagonist
1249 Posts
1. CPR 2. Janitor 3. RB I also 100% agree with everything Qatol has said. this is a marathon for town. We should focus less on KP roles, and use old fashon analysis to kill scum. A combination of defensive roles along with DT type roles would serve us best, not that the odd vig is a bad idea though. | ||
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hiro protagonist
1249 Posts
On May 15 2012 05:27 Qatol wrote: While this is great, don't announce something like this. Keep the mafia guessing about which role you will be picking. You don't need us to validate your pick. (Though if anyone picks Tracker, I will criticize you in the postgame - it's an awful role in this format.) I disagree with a few things here. First of all, I didn't say we should focus less on KP roles. I just said that we shouldn't put a huge emphasis on grabbing them. I'm sure the mafia are thinking very hard about grabbing Vigiliante for its 2 night kills, for example, so townies should consider grabbing it first. Remember, each vanilla goon/SK is a gigantic win for the town. That being said, the defensive roles and investigative roles will play a more active part in helping the town win (rather than the passive role of defensively picking roles such as Vigilante). Second of all, I don't think Roleblocker is so important that it must be assigned. I think the uncertainty of the mafia not knowing the location of the role is more valuable. In fact, it might actually be better to use the Jailkeeper on the CPR doctor anyways (because that protects him from dying + still prevents the shot). yeah, the bolded part is what I wish I said instead  100% agreeI still would like to assign the RB, just because it creates more acountablity. But if everyone else thinks that its not a problem, I guess im not bothered by leaving it out of assignment. But it goes without saying that whoever gets the Jailkeeper, its your job for at least the first night to Jail the CPR, and every night after that till we can be sure of his or her alignment. | ||
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hiro protagonist
1249 Posts
We are 100% assigning slots 1 and 2 for CPR and Janitor. Anyone disagreeing with this plan beter back it up with some really good reasoning. The remaining question is do we want to assign the RBer, to be used as toads and I's plan discussed earlier? thoughts? | ||
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hiro protagonist
1249 Posts
If both are town = sweet, then we control the role blocker, and we can use the CPR doc for shots on scum later in the game when our aim will be better If 1 town/scum = not bad. If the roleblocker is scum, he still has to roleblock the CPR doc, or get lynched. If the CPR is scum, we get to roleblock them. If the scum decides to drop the CPR to his buddy, whatever role he picks will still be RBed by town, making whatever the next powerful role he picked useless. If both are scum = not good, but very VERY unlikely. with your plan, If both are town = good, but not great. Sure we know where the CPR doc is, but we have one VT that could have been a RB, giving him a role, and denying one for scum. If 1 town/scum = not good. ether scum gets CPR doc with no backups, or better yet for them, scum can chose whatever they want and simply "confirm" that the top pick has CPR doc. If both are scum = really bad  between these 2 plans, I think mine is the better pick. | ||
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hiro protagonist
1249 Posts
Basicly, I think that using roles to control the top spots picks is superior to using double picks because: *power roles that can cotrol the cpr doc are more usful later in the game when we can use the role for towns advatage. * choseing a RBer denys' the role for scum. * Double picking will lead to VTowns, but not VScums. On May 15 2012 06:16 deconduo wrote: If we do decide to go with set picks, we need to have a solid decision before the draft order goes through. Mafia will change their preferences based on what positions they get so we can't have any more discussion once the order is revealed. 100% agree. We make a plan, and there is no changing it after the draft phase. | ||
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hiro protagonist
1249 Posts
On May 15 2012 07:32 slOosh wrote: Also I want to discuss the Copy Cat further - it says that it copies the first power role, and with the possibility that scum will take something like angry vig and shoot whoever to copy cat the janitor/cpr? Shouldn't it be a role up for denial solely because it has the capability to copy roles that are up for denial? (Unless I'm misunderstanding something here). This is only a problem if the first lynch is vanilla. If thats the case, we simply have the med/jailkeeper protect the cpr/janitor overnight. copycat should not be a problem. Im off to work, should be back later tonight. | ||
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hiro protagonist
1249 Posts
So picks 1-3 will be the following: 1. CPR 2. Janitor 3. rng of CPR/Janitor Everyone cool with this? | ||
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hiro protagonist
1249 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + The thing is Toad, is though Qatol was not the frist to bring up the ideas, He had more convicing arguments then we did, so people listend to him. Pretty simple. You still get points in my book for pushing protown plans. | ||
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hiro protagonist
1249 Posts
risk.nuke = Janitor marvellosity = rng CPR/Janitor OK you three, you know what to do. Marvellosity, just in case its not obvious, dont tell us the results of the rng pick until after the picking phase is over. Thanks for taking one for the team @Snarfs: I dont think talking about what you want to pick/will pick. We want Mafia to be as unsure of picks as possable. If town starts informing their picks, it makes it easy for scum to snipe better roles. | ||
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