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On May 21 2012 22:17 zelblade wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 21:44 marvellosity wrote:On May 21 2012 21:42 Palmar wrote:
Toad is another possibility, something about the way he posted day 1 makes him kinda scummy. There remains the fact that Toad claimed VT -> mason pick. Not sure how convincing this is, but it should be a plus point for him. Although I didn't buy in to Qatol's "helped confirmed marv's claim when he desperately needed it" - actually I was under pretty much zero suspicion and people were believing my claim anyway. I agree it is more of a null tell than anything. Considering that sandroba already claimed before the end of the draft phase that he himself was going to pick mason, its highly possible that a scum toad weighed in that sandroba was more likely than not going to confirm your claim since he had no reason to lie about his pick and thus decided to buy some cred off the situation.
Do you think I should have not claimed the VT? I think it gave marv's claim credibility and was the reason it went to "risk or sent" rather than "risk, sent or marv".
So just for the sake of it: Just take the VT for granted, take the town alignment for granted and take the "I picked mason" for granted as well. Do you think it's bad for town if I claim in that situation?
I'd say it helped a lot yesterday.
You yourself say in the case of me being mafia I am a guy who wants to get cred, so you agree that it was good after all?
Why think about a good thing (your words) and come up with some explanation that I did that good thing because I was forced to instead of doing something mafia-oriented.
Read my statement again. Does that sound like a planned thing? Or does that sound like a "nice, I can confirm that" burst? Check the timestamps. Do you really think I would instantly post something like that without a second of a thought as mafia?
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On May 22 2012 02:23 slOosh wrote:
True, true. I'm still of thought that Palmar is the last scum, as from the list of risk voters he is the least towniest.
As for the 1 missing KP, if people aren't notified of saves then it is likely that mafia shot SK and they are in understanding that they need each other to win. Next day we need a majority lynch by clear margin lest we run into this "politician swapped my vote" shenanigans.
What are people's thoughts on the mass roleclaim at day? I'm not sure because people expressed reservations but it may just have been for the night time and not the plan in itself. Pros are we might catch people with contradictions and it puts immense pressure on the anti town players, but cons are if they survive then they have a clearer idea of how to shoot (maybe?).
I just don't see the point of the massclaim at all unless we got a 2nd sent... clearly at this point mafia has to know that a lie about the role will end up devastating.
Therefore they could just tell the truth about their role, as sent could have and nobody can tell if it's a townie who's tried to deny a mafia role or if it's really just a mafia.
Picture sent claiming Joat who tried to get the KP-role out of the way that can still just use the other actions to be pro-town.
He would not have lied and I doubt he would have gotten lynched that way because it makes sense from a town point of view as well.
So imo we still don't get a thing from a mass roleclaim while mafia gets complete information about our roles and where to shoot if they don't think the good looking people are not worth a shot for whatever reason.
So what's the point of the massclaim...
We might end up finding the politician lying but most people think that it's the SK because mafia politician would have caused a NL or a risk lynch yesterday but with all the information we already bursted out he's completly fine claiming VT who went for JOAT / vig / Mason as well so again I don't see the point in claiming.
And for those of you thinking "stop giving mafia / SK advices". If I am smart enough to figure this out mafia and/ or SK are surely smart enough as well and talked about this kind of thing at some point in their rc / QT / whatever.
I don't want us to give away all we've got (role information) because that's only useful for mafia so that's why I am talking about it.
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On May 22 2012 03:18 risk.nuke wrote:
Sent agreed to pick janitor and then picked something else. No toad he could not had claimed joat and walked away from it.
Roleclaiming: Yes the mafia can tell the truth which is what I always hoped for. With my ladder idea the roleclaim was never designed to create a Sent situation. It was designed to truthfully determine who picked what role and then we will to determine if someones claim and and actions are suspicious from a town perspective. And outing the last blues is hardly dangerous, we already have an outed vigilante, a jailer (who the medic should bloody well protect tonight, no wifom. Do it!), two confirmed masons if marv have the brains to claim before one of them dies.
I am obviously talking about a scenario in which he would not have lied, as mentioned when talking about "they could have just told the truth". Thought it's selfexplaining that "telling the truth" = not lying for me....
If he would not have claimed VT who tried to pick janitor but instead from the very beginning shut his mouth and only claimed JOAT once he had to he WOULD have been perfectly fine.
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On May 22 2012 03:39 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 03:18 risk.nuke wrote:
Sent agreed to pick janitor and then picked something else. No toad he could not had claimed joat and walked away from it.
Roleclaiming: Yes the mafia can tell the truth which is what I always hoped for. With my ladder idea the roleclaim was never designed to create a Sent situation. It was designed to truthfully determine who picked what role and then we will to determine if someones claim and and actions are suspicious from a town perspective. And outing the last blues is hardly dangerous, we already have an outed vigilante, a jailer (who the medic should bloody well protect tonight, no wifom. Do it!), two confirmed masons if marv have the brains to claim before one of them dies. I am obviously talking about a scenario in which he would not have lied, as mentioned when talking about "they could have just told the truth". Thought it's selfexplaining that "telling the truth" = not lying for me.... If he would not have claimed VT who tried to pick janitor but instead from the very beginning shut his mouth and only claimed JOAT once he had to he WOULD have been perfectly fine.
Unless of course you are talking about the "pregame" stuff and the plan. You and marv agreed to pick Janitor as well and didn't end up doing it. So that's apparently not a reason to lynch someone unless you & marv want to be lynched as well :p
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On May 22 2012 03:52 risk.nuke wrote:
I didn't agree to that plan. I specificly said it was a bad plan and I'll explain why in the post game if you want to.
Most of you got bloody butthurt because of that and nearly mislynched me despite I was the without a question the least likely to be the scum. If you had just been able to produce the slightest amount of common sense you had seen how Sentinel was clearly the most suspicious which I think snarf was the one to quickly point out.
We asked about 4 times in the first 48 hours that EVERYONE who does not agree with the plan to say it before alignment pm's are out. Noone disagreed but sandroba => everyone but sandroba agreed to it.
You just completly bombarded it although we planned to go with it. If you would have just told us that you disagree with it there would have been no problem at all, but you didn't. That's the point.
But you playing anti-town although you are town isn't even the point. The point is that a massclaim won't help us because we won't be able to figure out who picked what role with what reason. Mafia won't lie about their roles and simply say they tried to deny a town role. SK wil just claim something that's safe at this point (thanks to the marv / risk / sent thin it's already bloody easily to do that) and there's just no way to figure out that as well.
Just lynch into scumreads instead of talking about massclaims when the chance to catch a scum like that is like 0,1%...
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On May 22 2012 03:57 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 03:52 risk.nuke wrote:
I didn't agree to that plan. I specificly said it was a bad plan and I'll explain why in the post game if you want to.
Most of you got bloody butthurt because of that and nearly mislynched me despite I was the without a question the least likely to be the scum. If you had just been able to produce the slightest amount of common sense you had seen how Sentinel was clearly the most suspicious which I think snarf was the one to quickly point out. We asked about 4 times in the first 48 hours that EVERYONE who does not agree with the plan to say it before alignment pm's are out. Noone disagreed but sandroba => everyone but sandroba agreed to it. You just completly bombarded it although we planned to go with it. If you would have just told us that you disagree with it there would have been no problem at all, but you didn't. That's the point. But you playing anti-town although you are town isn't even the point. The point is that a massclaim won't help us because we won't be able to figure out who picked what role with what reason. Mafia won't lie about their roles and simply say they tried to deny a mafia role. SK wil just claim something that's safe at this point (thanks to the marv / risk / sent thin it's already bloody easily to do that) and there's just no way to figure out that as well. Just lynch into scumreads instead of talking about massclaims when the chance to catch a scum like that is like 0,1%...
EBWOP
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Was Qatol shot?
We're missing one KP again. SK has 1 KP and mafia has 1 KP but there's only one dead guy and I guess whoever shot blue went for a save hit rather than someone looking good to avoid protection. So unless somehow SK and Mafia (going to use "mafia" for both SK and mafia from now on...) BOTH had the same idea and BOTH shot the exact same guy we're missing one guy.
I'd assume Qatol jailed risk or marv and I'm pretty sure mafia assumed something along those lines as well. Or at least someone like Risk / marv. The imortant part is that Qatol can't jail himself, even if he could he would probably RB himself before protecting rendering the protection useless :p
The the interesting part here is, did mafia shoot into someone like Risk / marv and we'll probably never know because Risk / marv won't get confirmation on that one according to Chaoser, or did mafia shoot Qatol because that would have been the reasonable thing to do if you want to avoid protection, unless of course there's a real medic around, however I'd take that risk over shooting into risk / marv without a second of a thought as mafia.
Right now I'd assume Qatol did not jail risk and rather went for his #2 "target" because he said something along the lines "vigs shoot into XYZ" yesterday, didn't he? So he probably wanted risk to shoot because there's not a fantastillion vigs around anymore. Risk could tell us if he was RB'ed but he can not tell us if he was protected and Qatol could just tell us who he jailed :p
However the interesting part here is why Qatol is not dead. He is the guy able to save everyones life except for his own. So I'd actually say the 2nd hit was Qatol and he was protected by a real medic. Can't imagine mafia not wanting Qatol dead right now when he's even the save-hit if there's no 2nd medic.
Confirmation on who was RB'ed / protected / hit would still be nice to figure this out.
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On May 22 2012 20:18 Mattchew wrote:
Toad qatol said he jailed marv and that marv nor himself took a hit
and I agree with a sandroba lynch
yeah exactly, however I only had the nested quote of this one in my mind, didn't see chaosers update until you just said that:
On May 22 2012 04:58 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 04:37 chaoser wrote:On May 22 2012 03:41 Qatol wrote:
What about if they are saved by being Jailed? Is the player doing the saving informed of the save? Reading back on old PYP games, jailkeeper saves do not get notifications while doctor saves do
From PYPI:Jailkeeper
You have the ability to lock someone in jail, preventing all night actions on a player of your choice during the night. This includes DT checks, bombs, night hits, and recruitment. It does not prevent roleblocks. You may not protect yourself. No one will be notified of any results. Jailkeeper can protect someone the night she/he gets killed. After reading logs with GM, I have to revise my answer and inform everyone that if someone is jailed and saved then both the jailer and the person who is saved will be informed.
so I thought he assumed he would get a notification when really he would not. But that statement makes clear that he would have gotten an notification which brings us to our problem again:
We have a jailer who can protect people but he protected someone that didn't end up being shot and we're missing KP
=> we probably have a medic or someone shot into a vet / hider.
Pretty sure a vet and a medic would get a notification as well, not sure about the hider though.
I'm just mentioning that because it could be an issue for the massclaim and I would like Qatols thought on that before starting doing anyting because if we have a medic that could change some things.
I'm going to do whatever Qatol says because clearly he's carrying town right now but I want his comment on that one before starting everything to make sure he just didn't forget about that part.
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Just to make the point clear, because I failed to come to a conclusion in my last post and I apparently need to type out everything:
We have a claimed hit and people questioned that the first time. We still don't have a counterclaim à la "hey I got shot as well". Risk did not get shot and neither did Qatol / Marv according to them. So right now it looks like Zeph was REALLY shot and since he is a VT (he claimed Joat-VT or am I confusing things right now?) we have a medic OR zeph is a mafia / SK who hold his shot to savely claim being shot for towncred. But that's a little hypocritical considering I told him (or zelblade, lol) to stop thinking of worst case scenarios of things that make me look good.
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On May 22 2012 21:16 Zephirdd wrote:
Also, witch could have protected me day1. He would have to chose between me and PaqMan, and it was pretty obvious I was the one to be protected >_>
oooh. Screw everything I said. You were protected n1 and not yesterday... mixed that up, so we still have a missing KP?
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I really should make notes again but I can't bother doing so once I get frustrated about a game (in this case because I sucked d1)
Playing by heart really gives me a hard time differentiating between all those claims...
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On May 22 2012 21:33 zelblade wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2012 14:51 talismania wrote:
deconduo [1,1] - Mafia CPR doc (DayVigged by Mattchew)
risk.nuke [4,2] - Vigilante
marvellosity [7,2] - Mason
[UoN]Sentinel [9,1] - Mafia Jack of All Trades (Lynched Day One)
Mattchew [11,x] - Day Vigilante
zelblade [12,x] - Vanilla Townie (Picked JoAT)
Bluelightz [13,x] - Town Rolecop
talismania [15,1] - Town Witch
Misder [2,2]
PaqMan [2,2] - Vanilla Mafia (Picked ???)
slOosh [10,x]
Toadesstern [10,10] - Vanilla Townie (Picked Mason)
Barundar [3,1]
Zephirdd [3,2] - Vanilla Townie (Picked Politician)
hiro protagonist [3,x]
Palmar [5,1] - Pardoner
Snarfs [5,1]
Qatol [5,1] - Jailkeeper
sandroba [5,1] - Vanilla Townie (Picked Mason)
Probulous - Vanilla Townie (Modkilled) Assuming that we believe zeph's claim, this narrows down the SK to misder, sloosh, toad, and barundar. Since toad has already claimed VT I suggest we get the remaining three to claim for now. why can the SK only be misder, sloosh, myself and barundar? Marv can you get your townie to claim? Especially if it narrows it down further.
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On May 22 2012 21:37 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 21:33 zelblade wrote:On May 19 2012 14:51 talismania wrote:
deconduo [1,1] - Mafia CPR doc (DayVigged by Mattchew)
risk.nuke [4,2] - Vigilante
marvellosity [7,2] - Mason
[UoN]Sentinel [9,1] - Mafia Jack of All Trades (Lynched Day One)
Mattchew [11,x] - Day Vigilante
zelblade [12,x] - Vanilla Townie (Picked JoAT)
Bluelightz [13,x] - Town Rolecop
talismania [15,1] - Town Witch
Misder [2,2]
PaqMan [2,2] - Vanilla Mafia (Picked ???)
slOosh [10,x]
Toadesstern [10,10] - Vanilla Townie (Picked Mason)
Barundar [3,1]
Zephirdd [3,2] - Vanilla Townie (Picked Politician)
hiro protagonist [3,x]
Palmar [5,1] - Pardoner
Snarfs [5,1]
Qatol [5,1] - Jailkeeper
sandroba [5,1] - Vanilla Townie (Picked Mason)
Probulous - Vanilla Townie (Modkilled) Assuming that we believe zeph's claim, this narrows down the SK to misder, sloosh, toad, and barundar. Since toad has already claimed VT I suggest we get the remaining three to claim for now. Marv can you get your townie to claim? Especially if it narrows it down further.
EBWOP: woops, posted inside the quote:
why can the SK only be misder, sloosh, myself and barundar?
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I'm pretty sure I know what Barundar is going to claim :3
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On May 22 2012 22:58 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 22:49 risk.nuke wrote:Mattchew do you think snarf is scum despite posts such as these which was crucial to condemn Sentinel. + Show Spoiler [Mainpost] +On May 18 2012 03:36 Snarfs wrote:Sentinel said he would take Janitor if he had to: Show nested quote +On May 17 2012 05:59 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
I'll be cool with it, but I'd rather have risk cooperate lol.
Risk please cooperate? risk made it quite clear he was not going to cooperate. Then Sentinel tries to make it sound like he attempted to pick the janitor role by adding a frowny face: When in fact we now know that the Janitor was not picked by anyone in the top 4. Sentinel lied then tried to make it seem like he didn't lie without actually lying anymore. That's good enough for a day 1 lynch to me. ##Vote [UoN]Sentinel On May 18 2012 04:47 Snarfs wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2012 04:45 Qatol wrote:On May 18 2012 03:59 Snarfs wrote:On May 18 2012 03:54 Qatol wrote:
You guys, unless you're going to commit to making a long analysis, don't bring up a new target for lynch. This kind of lazy/impulsive lynching is a way to get us in trouble. We're just going to divide the town and wind up letting the mafia control the lynch or destroy the productive atmosphere we had earlier.
Also, because I don't think lynching Mattchew is a good idea right now, I'm going to stop taking about him and focus on PaqMan. Not much to analyze in my vote. Sentinel said he would do one thing (which would benefit town), then did another (thus, benefiting mafia) while not making it clear that he didn't do the thing he intended to do (making it seem like he tried to benefit town, when in fact benefitting mafia). Why would town do this? What exactly did he say he would do which he didn't do? He said he would take Janitor. He tried to take Janitor. He claims he got vanilla instead. What about that is anti-town? Calm down a little and think this through, please. I'm not necessarily saying he isn't the best lynch target of the 3 (him, risk.nuke, and marvellosity), but I am saying that your logic for voting him isn't sound. This is why you need to do an analysis. And I still think PaqMan is a stronger target (sorry my post is taking so long - I'm at 6 pages in word and counting). All I'm doing is trying to get everyone to calm down and have an open mind about lynch targets. I clearly posted that with the assumption that risk.nuke was telling the truth. Now that there is new information, I am open to either a risk.nuke lynch or a Sentinel lynch. However, I still believe that the wording in Sentinel's posts seemed deceptive; whereas, risk.nuke has been completely clear and straightforward in his decision making. Is 1 mislynch on you worth looking bad to the rest of town? Sent took a risk (no pun intended) and he was going to hang for it day 2 if not day 1. Scum lost 1 kill and 0 overall kp from him dying and at the time, I think there was a strong voting force against you if I recall correctly. He speaks with a lot of certainty especially in a time where there should not have been much (IMO) from outsiders perspectives.
On May 22 2012 22:54 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 22:45 marvellosity wrote:On May 22 2012 22:42 Mattchew wrote:
and I think that snarfs/sandroba is the last scum Based on? sandroba not really caring about the game or aggressively asserting himself as town leader snarfs cause his posts against sent feel like bus (which if you look at the situation retrospectively would be the right play as scum) and cause I believe that there is scum within all the [5,1] picks, and I don't think its palmar or qatol
that's exactly what I thought as well.
///here be huge explanation that got deleted because of ongoing-games-rule, *hinthint*///
The part about Sandroba however is wrong. There's a bunch of reasons to suspect him but him not caring isn't alignment indicating at all. Remember C9++ #2?
He made about 4 posts withint 3 days if I recall correctly and ended up being town together with me.
The part that is worrying about Sandroba is that he really wants to play a perfect d1 as town and therefore wants to lynch into mafia no matter what, yet he came in here declaring that we should no lynch not even trying to talk about better alternatives. He could be lazy playind d3 right now bu I'd still say a lazy, d3 playing Sandro wouldn't suggest a NL out of nowhere.
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I still think Barundars claim might be helpful, especially if it's what I believe it is and maybe Qatol got the same idea I have.
So short: we need that information^^
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On May 23 2012 03:47 slOosh wrote:
Well that rules out hiro as SK, as if he were roleblocked then he would have died if shot, and there is still an unaccounted for KP, and no one chose to pick a defensive role (protective roles all accounted for if I'm not mistaken).
Ok I'm not understanding that one. What does rule out hiro as SK and why.
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On May 23 2012 04:30 Misder wrote:
Since no one has claimed the second shot tonight, we can assume that mafia shot SK, and since I roleblocked hiro, which would have gotten rid of the SK bulletproof, hiro would have died if he was SK. Therefore, hiro is not SK. (I actually did not think of this either)
there's a problem to that conclusion qatol has already pointed out as well. Will talk about it once the claims are over :p
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On May 23 2012 04:41 Misder wrote:
That one of either mafia or SK did not action last night? I guess.
Either way, I don't believe hiro is SK and more likely to be mafia.
@ first: nah lol
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EPT
