EPTyou seem very reluctant on assigning it, when the kp role you proposed assigning (GF) is only one kp. And GF is probably not even better than the other one kp roles (day vig, angry vig, JOAT) nor the two kp role (vig) from a scum point of view.
Pick Your Power: Redux - Page 2
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
you seem very reluctant on assigning it, when the kp role you proposed assigning (GF) is only one kp. And GF is probably not even better than the other one kp roles (day vig, angry vig, JOAT) nor the two kp role (vig) from a scum point of view. | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
I'd prefer something like 1.CPR 2.CPR 3.Janitor After that I agree that KP roles should be high on everyone's list that ends up near the top. | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
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talismania
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talismania
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
This risk.nuke thing is very interesting. I didn't interact much with him in space ship - sandroba was he a pretty hard-headed player that didn't like changing his mind and always trusted his own opinions over others? I view him as having hotshot townie syndrome at the moment. | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
On May 17 2012 03:23 Snarfs wrote: Here's something that should be a safe question for some of the more experienced PYPers: Which VTs should claim their choice? Since I'm fairly low on the queue, there's a good chance that my pick does not go through. Of the possible roles, which should I claim if I picked one and it didn't work? I'm thinking at least all the ones listed under "Mafia" roles, but any others? I'm not an experienced PYPer by any means but I'll go ahead and point out the obvious that just because a "mafia" role was picked doesn't mean that mafia has that role of course. It could mean that or it could mean that someone denied it. I also think VTs should be cautious about claiming that they bounced. In a game where there are only one or two VTs, it doesn't really matter and in fact might even be useful. In a game with a lot of VTs, then if all of them claim it makes the mafia's decision about who to kill at night a lot easier. I would only claim VT if I had a specific and productive way of applying the information that gave me. | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
On May 17 2012 04:20 Toadesstern wrote: OH and @slOosh please flip a coin or true-randomize it somehow like that. Please don't get influenced by this risk-shit and think that you have to choose Janitor know that risk has told people that he might not choose Janitor. It is very much possible (although incredibly paranoid^^) that that is the goal for mafia right now. So please, pick randomely no matter what What? Where is this post coming from - what does sloosh have to do with the janitor pick? | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
Mattchew to be scum makes little sense. That's the scum team wasting two roles and one member to get an unknown CPR doc and pray that when Mattchew is still alive at the end no one gets suspicious. Mattchew being sk also makes little sense. There are better roles for sk to pick, eg politician, that have late game potential, which is where the sk has to win after all. | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
(I'm trying to account for the possibility that Nuke picked janitor thinking he had convinced everyone he wasn't going to, and then got fucked by sentinel saying that he would pick janitor) Funny thing is that if I were scum in nuke's position, I would have taken vigilante straight up no question. you had already told people that you weren't going to take janitor - now you get to take vig. and mafia has 3 potential KP right off the bat - they might not even need to use the CPR doc right away if they're scared of trackers or roleblocks. | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
On May 16 2012 20:59 deconduo wrote: We had agreed on a plan. There was plenty of opportunity to voice any objections to it before the draft list was revealed. It was also mentioned that there would be no changing after the draft was revealed. And yet you come out of nowhere saying you might not follow the plan, and you give no reasoning behind it. It looks a lot like a scum wanting to be able to use janitor without having any consequences. 'Oh janitor was used? I didn't like the plan so I didn't take it, it wasn't me.' Might be because my initial plan was to take GF, when I figured it was a bit stronger than it actually is. However its pretty obvious that I abandoned that plan ages ago, and agreed with the current one. No idea why he would bring it up again now. On May 17 2012 01:11 deconduo wrote: Yeah and so the only reasons for risk not to want the plan to succeed are: -He's town that wants to take traitor safely -He's scum that wants to be able to use janitor without getting lynched -He's SK that wants a better role than janitor On May 15 2012 01:40 deconduo wrote: Oh yeah, I forgot about dropping roles down. I'll try to think of a way to compensate for that, maybe a check on me first night? Though with a possible framer as well it gets annoying. My hope was to have the framer as the only possible way for scum to fuck with DT checks. On May 16 2012 07:20 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Dammit didn't think that through. Well there's another point for the town rolecop. Next question - Why would Hider be an important defensive role? From my point of view it seems like an information role or a role that defends others would be much more important. The only use I could see for Hider is an active/veteran player being able to voice his opinions without getting shot. Worth noting that deconduo gives the exact scum reasoning for why you would say you're not going to take janitor when in fact you do. Could mean that this plan was already afoot, although pointing out in the open like that is somewhat brazen. | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
On May 17 2012 20:28 zelblade wrote: First off regarding the decundo shot. I agree with a few others who have already stated so - this shot, whilst actually managing to luck into scum, actually had terrible grounds. I can easily see a whole host or reasons why a mafia team wouldnt have any of their members pick [1,1], one of them mainly being that positions 1,2,3 suck for scum this game unless they have something like both positions 1 and 3, allowing them to drop the role somewhere. Copy Cat definately needs to claim asap if hes town, in which case mattchew is probably town (though theres still the vauge possibility that scum failed on a copy cat pick, I dont see a scum mattchew going through with his shot in that case). I highly doubt hes SK though considering that day vig sucks for SK. Anyway, moving on, Janitor needs to claim. I am relatively sure there has been some shenanigans occuring at the top. Qatol's case on Paqman is interesting. To be honest - I think that paqman's reasonings for his posting are actually pretty decent. I can understand what he means by not being able to contribute much due to fact that plans were discussed during his absense - this is actually similar for me - I was in school for most of the draft phase, and by the time I got back there wasnt much to do other than give opinions on the plan. Explain this. You made this statement before 1) Marv claimed that he wasn't Janitor 2) Marv claimed that he did not RNG between Janitor and CPR and in fact picked something else 3) Before Sentinel claimed that he did not get Janitor 4) Before Risk.nuke said he wasn't Janitor Essentially, before all the "shenanigans". How are you so prescient? | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
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talismania
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On May 16 2012 20:59 deconduo wrote: We had agreed on a plan. There was plenty of opportunity to voice any objections to it before the draft list was revealed. It was also mentioned that there would be no changing after the draft was revealed. And yet you come out of nowhere saying you might not follow the plan, and you give no reasoning behind it. It looks a lot like a scum wanting to be able to use janitor without having any consequences. 'Oh janitor was used? I didn't like the plan so I didn't take it, it wasn't me.' Might be because my initial plan was to take GF, when I figured it was a bit stronger than it actually is. However its pretty obvious that I abandoned that plan ages ago, and agreed with the current one. No idea why he would bring it up again now. Also note that he was talking to risk.nuke when he made the comment I bolded. | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
I've been thinking all along that the most logical possibility is that Marv is scum. He was the scummiest behaviorally before all this went down anyway for sure (lotsa one liners, tendency to jump to spamming up the thread - see his exchances with risk.nuke prior to daybreak). Let me now show you The Marvellosity Hypothesis Let us first examine the scum's reason for taking Janitor but saying they didn't. We shall hear from the horse's mouth itself, Deconduo: On May 16 2012 20:59 deconduo wrote: We had agreed on a plan. There was plenty of opportunity to voice any objections to it before the draft list was revealed. It was also mentioned that there would be no changing after the draft was revealed. And yet you come out of nowhere saying you might not follow the plan, and you give no reasoning behind it. It looks a lot like a scum wanting to be able to use janitor without having any consequences. 'Oh janitor was used? I didn't like the plan so I didn't take it, it wasn't me.' Might be because my initial plan was to take GF, when I figured it was a bit stronger than it actually is. However its pretty obvious that I abandoned that plan ages ago, and agreed with the current one. No idea why he would bring it up again now. To understand what's going on it's necessary to examine the sequence of events. 1) Draft order resolves, and scum team gets CPR doctor at #1. This is great. They have no reason to buck the plan. Then, 2) Risk.nuke comes in going crazy, saying he will not follow the plan. I actually think that his behavior gives mafia the idea to do it as well. 3) Deconduo Publicly scolds risk.nuke for his avoidance of the plan. Does a scummate really call a scummate scummy for something they know that the other guy is going to do? REALLY? No. What makes more sense is that the scum team was thinking of doing the same thing as risk (taking janitor but saying they didn't) but what they were really setting up for is laying the blame at risk's feet when the janitor power was used. 4) Marv states that he is going to RNG between the two, looking for all intents and purposes like he is following the plan. Fine. 5) Sentinel says "I will pick Janitor but I'd rather Risk complied, please comply risk!" He never states after that that for sure he will pick Janitor. If he is town, then scumteam doesn't actually know that he in fact will do so. 6) Risk picks his role. For the sake of argument, let's assume he picks vigilante. Because he probably did and everyone's already thinking it so I doubt I'm clueing in the scumteam. 7) Zelblade picks his role. Zel is 6th - and for whatever reason he also picks vigilante. I actually have thought that behaviorally zelblade is the scummiest guy here and if he picked vig at the 6 spot I think it would be consistent with a risky scum move though not necessarily indicative of one. 8) Zelblade posts that "there have been some shenanigans at the top" and therefore that "the janitor needs to claim". This is before ANY of the other claims against Janitor have been made. He knows that something fishy is going on because he picked a role that bounced - why he is certain his bounce is related to the janitor choice and not just off sentinel is something that needs to be carefully considered. 9) Immediately after zelblade's post, Marv states "I am not Janitor" 10) Zelblade asks for confirmation, giving Marv the opportunity to state that he did not pick either CPR or Janitor, but thought that by saying he would he would keep the players above him in line. Ok, fine. This could be true for town, and it also fits the requirements of what deconduo has already told us: take janitor but say you didn't. He probably should have claimed CPR - VT if he's scum, as zelblade sets him up to do, but he doesn't. 11) Sentinel then comes in an says "I did not get Janitor". If he is scum - why??? Why does he draw attention to himself like this? Here's the case for it, if I really think about it - he thought he was forced to say he picked Janitor based on what he had posted earlier, even though that post didn't make clear that he actually would do it. Therefore he felt he was forced into a lie. Why on earth does he lie that he tried for Janitor and didn't get it - I have no idea. This makes incredibly little sense. He should have lied that he took another role or tell the truth that he is Janitor. The scum team is already down one member at this point - by lying he's really hurting his team if he's scum. The other possibility of course is that he's not lying, and is town. 12) Risk.nuke confirms that he did not take Janitor. 13) Clusterfuck ensues. The real key here is events 2) and 3). If it's sentinel - why would the scum team be already showing that they had this idea, when they had no idea what Marv would do? Are they really saying "Oh, Risk isn't going to take Janitor - well maybe Sentinel can try for it." Sentinel could have just taken angry vigilante, or day vig (which is the same as GF), or any other great scum role, and avoided the possibility of hitting the wrong side of a 50/50 flip. If it's Risk.nuke, then why is he so adamant and cocksure about defying the plan? Why is Deconduo calling attention to him about it, literally spelling out why the plan is scummy? That's too silly if risk is scum - then risk uses janitor later and deconduo has already planted the seed that he's scum? Doesn't make sense. If it's Marv, then it actually makes some sense - he was #3, and suddenly risk is saying he's not going to pick janitor. Great! Now he can pick it. But he still needs to eventually come up with a lie that says that he didn't pick it. This is the weakest part of this case, because I think his optimal lie is what zelblade suggested to him: CPR - VT. But what he went with wasn't that bad either. Suddenly sentinel comes along and fucks everything up by saying that he might pick janitor too - and then he does and claims it. I think if Marv knew that this was for sure going to happen, he would have claimed CPR - VT. But he probably figured that Sentinel didn't pick Janitor at all, which would lead everyone to believe it had slipped lower in the cracks or hadn't been picked at all. | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
On May 19 2012 02:20 marvellosity wrote: talis - why would I think Sentinel wouldn't pick janitor? Because his post didn't say that he would - he said he was ok with it, but would rather risk cooperated. He never committed. It's also possible that you had already picked at that point. I still would like to clarify this point: Were players allowed to change their rolepicks up to the deadline? Or was it only one shot and no do-overs? | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
On May 19 2012 02:20 marvellosity wrote: talis - why would I think Sentinel wouldn't pick janitor? In addition, you and deconduo had already been working together to set Risk.nuke up to take the fall for this, given how both of you attacked him during the rolepicking phase. | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
2 scum are dead I think, maybe even until there's only 1 scum left. Even if your stab misses scum it would still help town by eliminating a possibility and help you by getting rid of a good role no matter what. | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
Mason at number three would be a bad pick for scum but I kinda think it would be a bad pick for town as well. | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
If he picked vigilante and bounced with someone, then, at the time he made his post, it could have been either risk, marv, or sentinel. But if he picked Janitor - wouldn't he have said so by now??? And why on earth would a town zelblade go for janitor at spot 6. And why, if he were scum, would a risk.nuke take janitor as town and then lie about it this vehemently for this long? It seems more likely that he took non-Janitor, which means risk isn't Janitor, which means it's sentinel as traitor or marv as scum even though that's looking really far-fetched at the moment. | ||
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