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On April 27 2012 18:38 Pure-SC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 18:32 WhySoMuch wrote:
No Lynching today is about the worse thing we can do today. Why? Would miss-lynching a townie make you happy? What makes you think we don't get information from No Lynch winning the vote?
Lol no it wouldn't make me happy, but the information we gain from it outweighs the negative.
We don't get information from No Lynch because no one dies. The only way we get information is if there is a competing wagon against it, and in that case, that information isn't useful until that said competing wagon dies.
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On April 27 2012 18:44 WhySoMuch wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 18:38 Pure-SC2 wrote:On April 27 2012 18:32 WhySoMuch wrote:
No Lynching today is about the worse thing we can do today. Why? Would miss-lynching a townie make you happy? What makes you think we don't get information from No Lynch winning the vote? Lol no it wouldn't make me happy, but the information we gain from it outweighs the negative. We don't get information from No Lynch because no one dies. The only way we get information is if there is a competing wagon against it, and in that case, that information isn't useful until that said competing wagon dies.
The information we gain today (whether we push a lynch on a suspected scum, a lurker or a no lynch) all provides us information based on who votes for what, and the reasons why. It's not always clear on Day 1 what this information means, and the game cannot be won or lost on Day 1.
If there are no solid scum reads (with supporting cases), and no clear lurker lynch, then why push a lynch on a possible townie? Then we are one townie down and giving an advantage to the scum.
So I'd say regardless of what or who is voted for, we gain information.
So considering you are pushing for a lynch regardless, who is your strongest scum read? The_Zen_Man?
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On April 27 2012 18:58 Pure-SC2 wrote:
The information we gain today (whether we push a lynch on a suspected scum, a lurker or a no lynch) all provides us information based on who votes for what, and the reasons why. It's not always clear on Day 1 what this information means, and the game cannot be won or lost on Day 1.
If there are no solid scum reads (with supporting cases), and no clear lurker lynch, then why push a lynch on a possible townie? Then we are one townie down and giving an advantage to the scum.
So I'd say regardless of what or who is voted for, we gain information.
So considering you are pushing for a lynch regardless, who is your strongest scum read? The_Zen_Man?
But see by forcing people to vote for players we catch them in contradictions. No Lynch is a cop out vote, It gives everyone an excuse. "I didn't find xxx wolfy therefore I vote No Lynch". This is incredibly bad for the village. Where, if we have two competing wagons for the lead, people have to make decisions on who to vote for, a lot of times people forget what they wrote in earlier posts and will make votes contradicting their posts. This is invaluable information that we are giving up.
Say we do lynch a townie, but the wagons are close and later on in the game, the counter-wagon flips wolf, we learn so much more.
Plus on top of that, How is the village suppose to win this game if we don't use our kills? By No lynching we are essentially playing down a man from the start.
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And yes, The_Zen_Man is my biggest mafia read aorn. But He hasn't posted since his opening so we will give him time
nkeeray's vote on me is really weird and I don't like it. Like why does he vote me there? he's playing on a joke vote from yomi, It just doesn't make sense
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I have to disagree with WhysoMuch
Lol no it wouldn't make me happy, but the information we gain from it outweighs the negative.
We don't get information from No Lynch because no one dies. The only way we get information is if there is a competing wagon against it, and in that case, that information isn't useful until that said competing wagon dies.
Even if nobody is lynched day1, we still gain a ton of imformation through our discussion. Even as we are discussing now, we are starting to get a picture on peoples view points, and where they stand. Sure we get more information when lynching, because we can start to analyse those who were for and those who were againts the lynch. But saying that no information is gained if we don't lynch is just false. Because we still get to anylase peoples behaviour.
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First, i would like to say that the reason for the time it took for this respond is beacause school/sleep. Im currently still in school, but i found time to post this.
WhySoMuch: I understand that my first post would seem suspicous, but i think u misunderstood me. I simply don't want a lynch just for the sake of lynch. If we have information, or if we are sure we would gain some information by lynching then we should do it. But if we just lynch someone because we don't have anyone else, that would probably result in a townie dead. Early in the game that kind of information might not be available, that is why i said nolynch could be useful early. Also, i understand that u voted for me to pressure me to respond, but if you still choose to keep voting on me you should give me a better explination.
I can't post for a few hours, but when i get home i will post some more including my thouhts on some other people.
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Ok, we get very little information. We mine as well just make a longer day 1 and allow the wolves to kill whoever if we are going to no lynch. We get no extra information that we wouldn't have already have. Regardless if we no lynch or lynch someone we get to see where people stand and their views, that doesn't change if we lynch someone.
if we no lynch today literally I will be in shock
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On April 27 2012 19:16 The_Zen_Man wrote:
First, i would like to say that the reason for the time it took for this respond is beacause school/sleep. Im currently still in school, but i found time to post this.
WhySoMuch: I understand that my first post would seem suspicous, but i think u misunderstood me. I simply don't want a lynch just for the sake of lynch. If we have information, or if we are sure we would gain some information by lynching then we should do it. But if we just lynch someone because we don't have anyone else, that would probably result in a townie dead. Early in the game that kind of information might not be available, that is why i said nolynch could be useful early. Also, i understand that u voted for me to pressure me to respond, but if you still choose to keep voting on me you should give me a better explination.
I can't post for a few hours, but when i get home i will post some more including my thouhts on some other people.
This whole post just seems off to me.
Like you think this is what a townie would say
But a few things:
1st underline: we gain information by lynching someone, it's not an "if", I am 100% sure we gain knowledge by lynching anyone today. And if your a townie you should realize this, as of yet no one has implied we don't gain knowledge by lynching someone except you.
2nd underline: We don't ever lynch someone just cause, that just doesn't happen. We lay out our views and decide who seems most likely to be a mafia and we vote them.
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@Veriat - All your posts so far are either agreeing or disagreeing with someone else without posting any original thoughts.
Give us some original analysis on someone that isn't based on something already posted.
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Whysomych: In your 1st underline you write that i should know that we gain knowledge by lynching someone if i was a townie, which dosen't make sense to me. If i had or did not have that knowledge before would not really define wether im a townie or not, as anyone with experience in the game would know that. But your post before that makes sense now that i think about it. Who people vote for during the lynch, and how they act before is valuable information. Im very new to this game and i am sill figuring it out, so if i acted suspicous it is only because of that. Also, if i was scum i would push for a lynch rather that nolynch, as scum can easily go undetected in the early game and let us lynch a townie.
If u have further concern regarding me, please express them so that i can answer them.
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But still, regardless of what we choose, we will still gain information from the vote. In that way, we can gain information without the risk of lynching a townie, as stated above by Pure.
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Also Whysomuch, there is some things about u that i find strange. On your post where you first state your reasons for suspecting me of being scum, you barealy even mentioned the post under me, which almost said the same thing that mine did. Instead, u put a pressure vote on me and do not even ask veriat to explain himself.
One other thing i find strange is how far your suspicions against me went after only 1 post, which was confirmed to be my first. Direclty after you were stated as a lurker you seemed to turn the attention against me, and almost immediatly voted for me. Was my first post really that suspicous?
Please explain the things stated above.
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On April 27 2012 21:26 The_Zen_Man wrote:
But still, regardless of what we choose, we will still gain information from the vote. In that way, we can gain information without the risk of lynching a townie, as stated above by Pure.
On April 27 2012 21:20 The_Zen_Man wrote: Also, if i was scum i would push for a lynch rather that nolynch, as scum can easily go undetected in the early game and let us lynch a townie.
Exactly what information would be given by a no-lynch? I don't really get this. And also, why would scum ever oppose to no-lynch? Sure they might not get a misslynch but on the other hand no information will be given. Misslynches are beneficial for scum but so are no-lynches. Therefore trying to see a connection between who wanted to lynch/no-lynch will not really give us any information at all. So in the end most cases on day 2 would be based upon mass WIFOM.
I don't really like no-lynching at all. The opinion could be usefull in case we are completely clueless at the time of the vote, but then we are probebly royally screwed anyways.
I don't have alot of time atm. Will post something longer in the evening.
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Vote count coming in a couple hours. Please keep in mind that votes in an incorrect format will not be counted. There are still votes that have not been fixed (I.E. Incorrect capitalization). Don't worry, there is still plenty of time (Approximately 32.5 hours, correct me if I am wrong.)
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On April 27 2012 22:20 Lazermonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 21:26 The_Zen_Man wrote:
But still, regardless of what we choose, we will still gain information from the vote. In that way, we can gain information without the risk of lynching a townie, as stated above by Pure.
Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 21:20 The_Zen_Man wrote: Also, if i was scum i would push for a lynch rather that nolynch, as scum can easily go undetected in the early game and let us lynch a townie. Exactly what information would be given by a no-lynch? I don't really get this. And also, why would scum ever oppose to no-lynch? Sure they might not get a misslynch but on the other hand no information will be given. Misslynches are beneficial for scum but so are no-lynches. Therefore trying to see a connection between who wanted to lynch/no-lynch will not really give us any information at all. So in the end most cases on day 2 would be based upon mass WIFOM. I don't really like no-lynching at all. The opinion could be usefull in case we are completely clueless at the time of the vote, but then we are probebly royally screwed anyways. I don't have alot of time atm. Will post something longer in the evening.
If we vote for a nolynch there will still be people, like yourself, that would oppose that and vote for a person instead. We can use that information to decide everyone standings. The time before deadline will also give us information, as we can observe how people act then.
Also, concerning the second quote, you should read my post. I didn't say that scum would be opposed to a nolynch, simply that they would rather push for a lynch on a innocent townie than miss that chance to kill.
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On April 27 2012 22:48 The_Zen_Man wrote:
Also, concerning the second quote, you should read my post. I didn't say that scum would be opposed to a nolynch, simply that they would rather push for a lynch on a innocent townie than miss that chance to kill.
This is the point I think most people miss when discussing this. All of the discussion around it and eventual votes on whoever is all information for us. Even peoples stances on it gives some clues as to what they are thinking and help build the picture of peoples motives as the days roll on.
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A lot has happened when I wasn't here I see. I'll add my analysis now.
first of all:
On April 27 2012 18:24 Pure-SC2 wrote:
@AcesAnoka - We need you to add to the discussion. You made a silly statement in your first post "I think we've established that Day 1 should be a No-lynch" which was by no means established other than a few people stating that as their preference in the absence of a better case.
The only other thing you've stated is not wanting to rush to voting. That is all you've contributed.
What is your read on Jailbreaker? From everyones posts so far, who are the two people you find most suspicious?
I agree that that statement was a bit silly(I could've said it was the preferred method by some including me at that time) But have you read the sentence after that? In that sentence I say that if it's blatantly obvious somoene is trying to hide something, is too agressive,... we should have a day 1 Lynch. Keep in mind also that at that point in time there wasn't many developments in this thread, which has now changed.(as did my opinion on not lynching)
Also my post on not rushing to vote was because at that point WhySoMuch hadn't posted and some people were already a bit antsy
Jailbreaker :
with all this nonsense talk about scheduals and lynch/no lynch, we're forgetting about the real issue here:
THERE'S MAFIA SCUM AMONG US.
I know it is day one, but does it have to be so passive? I don't want to vote for the wrong person based on three posts
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On to the part which is actually interesting, my analysis on what has happened the past day or so:
First of all we see yomi voting on WhySoMuch with the reasoning: werewolves are gay (Read: no reason at all)
He has yet to even explain WHY he voted on WhySoMuch, but when people actually vote on him (Jailbreaker) he immediately posts yet another one of his oneliners which add nothing to the discussion at all.
Like WhySoMuch said nreekay's vote is a little bit odd too, he votes on WhySoMuch for the same reason as yomi(none).
Taking a look at his post history he also hasn't contributed a lot, but now he ALSO votes for whysomuch for no apparent reason at all. Isn't that the same thing we've seen with Yomi?
For now, until Yomi can properly explain his actions:
##Vote: yomi
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@AcesAnoka - Yomi has a bit of a reputation from his last 2 newbie games and he tends to play the same way regardless of if he is scum or town. He's essentially trying to stir up discussion by posting "off the wall" (yomi feel free to correct me here if you'd explain it differently). Last game it got him lynched day 1 and he was town, so while it's good to pressure him like you are, bare in mind that this is essentially how he plays.
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@nreekay324 - You need to bring some original discussion to the table. Your meta is very different from your last game at this stage, and you have voted on whysomuch for no apparent reason.
You need to explain why you voted for whysomuch.
FoS: @nreekay324
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On April 28 2012 00:08 Pure-SC2 wrote:
@nreekay324 - You need to bring some original discussion to the table. Your meta is very different from your last game at this stage, and you have voted on whysomuch for no apparent reason.
You need to explain why you voted for whysomuch.
FoS: @nreekay324
What does FoS stand for?
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EPT
