Mafia is an educated guessing game of epic proportions. The objective of the game is to lynch or kill all mafia members before they outnumber the rest of the town. It's much like a game of poker because mafia members are also part of the town during the day and may manipulate the vote to their liking. If the mafia at any time outnumber or equal the townspeople, they win. The town's goal is to lynch all the members of the mafia.
The game is typically very active, so the thread will get big quickly. However, it is essential to read the thread to play the game. If you do not have the time or patience to read the whole thread, do not play. I will not compensate for ignorance.
Rules:
Cheating: Cheating includes (but is not limited to): 1. Posting after death. You may have one polite goodbye post, but it may not contain any potentially game-changing information. 2. Ruining the game by doing something like hand out your mafia's member list to the town. 3. Logging on to someone else's account to get their role or looking over someone's shoulder to get their role. 4. Comparing role PM times to determine roles. 5. Posting screenshots of your inbox. 6. Posting or sharing any PM you receive from a host. 7. Getting yourself modkilled to help your team. Your non-majority-decided death may not be used as a bargaining chip. 8. Signing up more than once using smurf accounts. 9. Betting items outside of the game in exchange for in-game benefits. 10. Sharing accounts with other players unless cleared by the host in advance. Otherwise, only you may post on your account. 11. Breadcrumbing the specific phrasing of your role PM. Do not compare the phrasing in your role PM to prove your alignment. You can claim the abilities you have, but you can't use the specific phrasing of your role PM. 12. Posting a false role PM phrased as if you received it from the host. You can still fake roleclaim, but you cannot make it look like you are posting a PM you received from the host. Cheating is not tolerated here. The punishment will be severe.
Posting:
Mod Font: This is mod font. It is reserved for moderators. Please do not use it.
Question Font: This is question font. Use it to ask the moderators questions about the rules. Please do us a favor and read the rules before you ask anything.
Activity: You must post in this thread once per day/night cycle and vote every day while you are alive. If you fail to do so, you will be modkilled.
Smurfs: Smurfs are not allowed in this game. This is a newbie game.
Spam: Spam is not tolerated, nor is any off-topic material. Do not discuss Proleague here. Do not talk about Starcraft II here. Play Mafia here.
Editing: Editing is not allowed for any reason. Editing will result in a warning. After that, you will be modkilled. This is the one part of the site where it is okay to be double posting, even triple-posting. While I ask for everybody to post as concisely as possible, post again if you have to edit anything.
Inappropriate posts: If you want to post something insulting or inappropriate and know the TL mods would have a problem with it elsewhere, don't post it here. If you do, a host will warn you or modkill you and request that you be banned from future games. The hosts have the final say on what is inappropriate. If you do not like how someone is talking to you, please PM a host, Flamewheel, or Mig before involving the TL staff. If you are unsatisfied with how the situation is resolved, then you can appeal to the TL staff normally.
Reporting posts: The report button is a nice feature for regular TL, but not for this forum. We prefer to deal with things in house if possible to avoid confusion among the TL staff. If you have a problem with how someone is posting, talk to the host, co-host, Flamewheel, or Mig before using your report button. Please do not use your report button for anything other than inappropriate posts which you feel are not being dealt with adequately.
Ban discussions: Please wait until this game is over to talk about modkills and bans resulting from this game.
Play to win. This means you play your best to help your team win while you are alive and in the game. However, this does not mean that you should try to win by being a jerk to the other players so they all want to quit playing.
This also means that you cannot leave the game without a good reason without a ban. These situations will be dealt with on a case by case basis. PM your host if you need to leave the game.
You have been warned.
Out of thread communication:
It is common for mafia (and town circles if PMs are allowed) to use a medium outside of TL such as QuickTopics or IRC to communicate during the game. Please be mindful that other players may be more tech savvy than you and they may attempt impersonate members of your team or attempt to infiltrate your chat. You use these media at your own risk.
Voting rules:
1. Voting is done in this thread. Please keep votes here, and only vote here. Do not PM me your vote. 2. Please vote in the following format: ##Vote: Artanis[Xp]. Votes not done in the correct fashion will not be counted. I will update vote counts whenever I get the chance. 3. No conditional voting. 4. You may vote for yourself. You may not vote for anyone dead or outside the game. 5. This game uses Extended Majority Lynch. That is, at the deadline the player with a majority of votes is lynched (majority = 1/2 the remaining players, rounded down + 1), if no one has a majority then no lynch will take place. 6. Voting is mandatory. You may NOT abstain. You MAY vote for a no lynch by posting ##Vote: No Lynch
Signups:
This game is open newbies only, that is, you must have played three or fewer game on TL.
Replacements This game uses (does not use) replacements. Replacements will be made in the game until time in the game. If a player is modkilled during the designated time, then they will be replaced by a player on the replacement list.
Clues: There are no clues.
PMs PMs are not allowed in this game.
Time Cycle: This game will follow a (24 hour night/48 hour) day cycle. In case I am not able to post around deadline, any votes after the 48 hour mark will not count and the game will be put on halt until the night post is up. The deadline time is 21:59 GMT (+00:00), Actions/votes will be accepted up to and including the posted time, but not after. Credits: Thanks to anyone who has ever hosted a game. This list grows ever longer. Thanks to everyone who helped balance this game.
If you have not read all the rules, go back and do so. I will not compensate for ignorance!
This is a semi-open setup, that is, exact role counts will not be known, but the possible roles will be known. All roles presented here are not necessarily in the game, but no roles not included here are present.
Town Roles
Town Wincondition- The town wins when there are no mafia left in the game
Vanilla Townie - You are just an ordinary citizen of the town of Liquidia, you are terrified of the mafia, and must strive to weed them out before the exterminate you and your fellow citizens. Every day you may vote for who you want to see lynched. Your wits and your votes will carry the town to glorious victory or shameful defeat.
Miller- You are just an ordinary citizen of the town of Liquidia, well, almost ordinary, unbeknownst to you, you sleep walk, and often end up visiting the graveyard and other suspicious locations, for that reason, you return Mafia to detectives who choose to check you. Millers are not informed that they are millers, rather they are given regular vanilla townie PMs.
Detective - You are a incredible sleuth, using your keen powers of deduction and the awesome astral charts from the seer's academy, you have the ability to inspect a player every night. You will find out if they are Town or Mafia. You are guaranteed to be sane, but beware of millers, framers and the godfather.
Medic - You are a recent medical school graduate, still struggling to pay the bills. Fortunately you have found employment here in Liquidia. Every night, you may choose to visit a player for a check up, if they would be hit that night, you manage to save them from the first kill aimed at them. Neither you nor your target will be notified of a successful protection.
Veteran - You are a survivor of the massacre of SNMMVI! The skills learned in that bitter struggle have taught you how to survive in even the harshest of situations, giving you an extra night life. That is, it takes two kill points to kill you. You will be notified if you get hit, and the medic protection absorbs hits before your extra life does.
Vigilante - You are an armed and dangerous fellow! You have secured a gun and are going to use it to take justice into your own hands. During any night of the game you may choose to fire at a player, this works exactly like a mafia hit. If your shot stacks with a mafia kill or another vigilante, it will not be refunded, if you are roleblocked, you will not lose your shot, even if you intended to fire that night.
Mafia Roles
Mafia Win condition- The mafia wins when they equal or outnumber the remaining townies or nothing can keep that from happening.
Mafia Powers - (all mafia have these, unless specifically stated otherwise) All mafia may vote, as ordinary citizens of liquidia. All mafia may communicate with each other outside the thread, by any means they wish, and know who the other mafia are. As a group, the mafia team have kp equal one, each night, which they may use however they want.
Mafia Goon- One of the newest recruits to the mafia, you are here to visit vengeance on the town. You have no special powers outside the regular mafia powers. Now destroy these fledgling fools, make them see the power of the mafia!
Mafia Roleblocker - An expert in the use of the terrible drug Nocando, in addition to the usual mafia powers, you can choose to visit a player each night and drug them, keeping them from performing any night actions. Regardless of their role, they will be notified that they were knocked out in the morning.
Mafia Framer - An ex-detective, you know exactly what those schmucks look for when investigating people. In addition to the normal mafia powers, you may choose to frame a player each night, making them return the opposite of what they should to detectives, that is a framed mafia goon returns Town and a framed Vanilla Townie returns Mafia
Mafia Godfather - The regional leader of the mafia, you know exactly what it takes to look innocent. In addition to the normal mafia powers, you return Town to any detective that investigates you.
Mafia Rolecop - An astrologist and soothslayer turned to crime, in addition to the usual mafia powers, you may investigate a player each night and find out their role.
Additionally, the mafia will receive copies of the Vanilla Townie PM and of each blue role, in order to prevent things like PM based closed ciphers.
1.) Its already in the rules, but remember, no editing. I'd rather not modkill for this 2.) Behave as gentlemen (or ladies), things get heated here, but personal attacks are unacceptable, I *will* hold you to the same standards I would anywhere else on teamliquid. 3.) If there is an issue, or you don't understand something, or you think your brilliant plan may be against the spirit of the rules, PM me or MidnightGladius. There is no shame in asking. 4.) Don't talk about the game outside the game. Sometimes it can be tempting to discuss it in IRC with a friend, or someone who isn't playing, unless its a private conversation with someone you KNOW isn't in the game, its not a good idea. Getting advice from more experienced players is fine though, just let me know who you are going to for coaching. 5.) Make sure to have read the rules, ignorance is no excuse. 6.) This is a game, have fun, and don't carry grudges. 7.) Have fun, seriously.
Adam4167, prplhz, and Mementoss have agreed to coach this game, bug them with any questions about how to play that you may have. Remember that coaches will not play *for* you, but they are useful to talk to.
They are a great resource, so make sure you ask them any questions you may have, however stupid it seems at the time.
I'm pretty new to Mafia, and TL in general, but i've read the rules, and tried some sc2 mafia, and thought this might be a lot of fun, so i decided i'd give it a shot :D
On April 25 2012 14:36 O.Golden_ne wrote: haha yomi. i saw you get lynched in that last game. unlucky. i was wondering if you'd sign up for this one.
haha ya I think I'll just post a disclaimer right now, before I have a roll. I play really aggro so dont flip out I've done it as both town and mafia :p
day1 lynch though maybe I'll be friendly mode. habits are hard to break
On April 25 2012 14:36 O.Golden_ne wrote: haha yomi. i saw you get lynched in that last game. unlucky. i was wondering if you'd sign up for this one.
haha ya I think I'll just post a disclaimer right now, before I have a roll. I play really aggro so dont flip out I've done it as both town and mafia :p
day1 lynch though maybe I'll be friendly mode. habits are hard to break
Friendly mode would be the way to go. You can get aggressive *after* you prove you're town. >.>
I don't think there's any spots left but another one always opens right away, you'll be playing in a few days. these 12 player ones are for noobs no worries
I can put you as a replacement if you want Ydriel. I'm launching the game in the afternoon after I'm back from college, which is around 13:00 GMT (+00:00).
"Hello Ladies and Gentlemen, this is Captain Artanis speaking. I'd like to welcome you all aboard the Jupiter Mining vessel Red Dwarf. We will be leaving Earth momentarily to begin our voyage to mine asteroids for valuable resources. As you all know, it's a dangerous task, but you've all had good training, so I'm sure we'll be fine." These were the words with which Artanis set sail to the asteroid belt near Jupiter. The trip was planned to take about 18 months, and as they left everything went as planned. Mining operations started fairly quickly, until one fateful Saturday evening.
Artanis had been summoned to the site operations as one of the machines was malfunctioning. He asked who was responsible for the ordeal, and was pointed to Nova_Terra. Artanis raised his voice and expressed his disdain for the situation, and Nova_Terra promised he'd try to get it fixed immediately. However, as soon as Artanis turned away, Nova_Terra dug his wrench into Artanis' neck. Having spotted this revolt, GMarshal immediately grabbed a nearby gun to shoot Terra, and shot Terra in the stomach. Nova_Terra let out one final laugh as he died and someone from the shadows pressed a button that made the malfunctioning machine fall on top of GMarshal's head.
After the ordeal, the entire crew was summoned to the headquarters by Holly, the ship's AI. When inquiring about what happened, the crew was told the following:
After finally understanding the message, Holly informed them that the killer was still alive. The remaining crew of 12 would have to find the murderers in their midst. To decide how to find the murderers, they suggested to lynch one person each day until the murdering would stop for good.
Captain Artanis has been murdered! Nova_Terra has been killed! GMarshal has been crushed by a malfunctioning mining device! You have until Saturday, April 28th at 21:59 GMT (+00:00) to vote. Remember, you may not abstain, but you MAY vote for a no lynch by typing ##vote: No Lynch. If your vote is not in the correct formatting, it will not be counted.
If you plan on observing, please PM either me or Nova_Terra for the QT link.
Remember that Coaches are available and should be used as they're an incredibly good resource. Adam4167, prplhz, and Mementoss are more than willing to help with any questions you may have so don't hesitate to PM them!
This is my first game and i'm looking forward to working with all of you in discovering the filthy scum and bringing them to justice!
It 11:20PM where i'm based so i wont be up for much longer but tomorrow i'll be very active and will want to share my observations. So let's get posting guys!
As of now we have about 56 hours untill lynch time, so we are in no hurry. However it's always nice to get the discussion going as fast as possible.
As for lynching, I think we shouldn't be to fast to judge based upon what they say in the very beginning, especially since this is a noob game. Alot of people are inexperienced and WILL ''scumslip'' even tho they are townies. I'm not saying that you shouldn't analyse what people are saying, but rather that you shouldn't tunnel someone just because you thought something they said in one of their very first posts was suspicous.
Some interesting things going into this game. There is specifically a rule stating that "no lynch" is a valid vote. As this is my first game with this is an option, I thought it was worth stating my stance on this.
In the absence of any cases with substance, I see "no lynch" as a potentially good day 1 option as it means we have a chance of avoiding a day 1 town miss-lynch. However, a good case against someone and pressuring lurkers would override this for me.
Lurking does not help town, so let's get the discussion going.
This is my first game of maifa, but i have been following other games a bit. I also think that the "no lynch" option could prove useful early in the game to avoid misslynch. The other game i was following misslynched on the first day simply because they didn't have enough information.
I love the theme and i'm very excited to get this show on the road! Like many here this is my first game so i'm looking forward to a good time with you fine lads (and lasses)
As Pure-SC2 said, i share his opinion on the "no lynch" vote since this is a game full of newbies like myself, and there isn't all that information up in the air the first day, which we can use to base good lynches on.
With that said, Game on and let's get the discussion going!
A mislynch on the first day is unfortunate and sometimes unavoidable, but by putting effort in and finding someone who is wasting our time by either lurking or actively being scummy be can still achieve progress from a mislynch. Lynching lurkers is as important as lynching mafia if we can't actively find one. Remember as town we have to work as a team, and lurkers dont do much to further town.
Regardless of an accurate lynch or a mis-lynch. On D2 we can see how the suspicious parties worked in hindsight and perhaps see if they have manipulated votes from D1 in relationship to N1's activity.
So lets get this thread active and treat lurkers as suspicious? Keep your posts concise and answer everyones questions to the point. I'm happy to answer any questions on my opinions if you have any.
A mislynch on the first day is unfortunate and sometimes unavoidable, but by putting effort in and finding someone who is wasting our time by either lurking or actively being scummy w*e can still achieve progress from a mislynch.
You make a good point Golden, lynching luckers would be a good alternative. We might also want to keep an eye out for people who make contentless posts, and as you said act "scummy"
Hey all, just woke up and about to work. A future rule on posting is that on weekdays between 0900-1700 CDT (GMT-5) I probably won't be active much due to my job, but I'll try and read up and occasionally post on my breaks :D
The thing that I see about newbie games is that sometimes it is harder for players to get a read on someone else, because they might really not have a clue what their goal is when they post. One of the first examples that I notice immediately already in this thread is that Pure-SC2 posts about the no-lynch availability, but then the following two posts occur
On April 26 2012 22:51 The_Zen_Man wrote: Hey guys!
This is my first game of maifa, but i have been following other games a bit. I also think that the "no lynch" option could prove useful early in the game to avoid misslynch. The other game i was following misslynched on the first day simply because they didn't have enough information.
On April 26 2012 22:55 Veriat wrote: Hello Everybody!
I love the theme and i'm very excited to get this show on the road! Like many here this is my first game so i'm looking forward to a good time with you fine lads (and lasses)
As Pure-SC2 said, i share his opinion on the "no lynch" vote since this is a game full of newbies like myself, and there isn't all that information up in the air the first day, which we can use to base good lynches on.
With that said, Game on and let's get the discussion going!
Even though this is my first forum game, I have read up as well as played the in-person variant and these both look suspicious to me, as they're bandwagoning on something that won't (instantly) kill them the first day. However, I can't deduce much from their first real post because it's a newb game, as well as the fact that the accounts have no history to go through to determine behavioral patterns. Plus, would the mafia post back-to-back almost identical posts? Doubtful.
Maybe I'm overthinking this. Perhaps waiting for some more people to post will provide more concrete information.
I'd like to briefly note I'm studying in hong kong, so at the deadline it'll be ~6 AM for me.
Looks like the only thing that's been brought up is the "no lynch" votr, and it looks like some people have stated they're okay with a no-lynch if there aren't any cases. I'd be okay with a no lynch if there really was no one to lynch, but we should really get discussion going so we can get cases to work with. If we get too passive with no lynch votes, we may end up encouraging lurking which would suck. I agree with golden, when this gets rolling, we should treat lurkers as suspicious.
This is my first game of mafia but I already love it! The theme is amazing too, we're on a spaceship!
On a more serious note, I think we've established that Day 1 should be a No-lynch, we should wait and see how the first night develops. HOWEVER, if its blatantly obvious that there IS one trying to hide something, not saying anything, things could change around.
On April 27 2012 00:31 AcesAnoka wrote: Hello everyone!
This is my first game of mafia but I already love it! The theme is amazing too, we're on a spaceship!
On a more serious note, I think we've established that Day 1 should be a No-lynch, we should wait and see how the first night develops. HOWEVER, if its blatantly obvious that there IS one trying to hide something, not saying anything, things could change around.
Thoughts?
I don't think we've established that Day 1 should be a no-lynch at all. A few people have merely stated that in the absence of a better case that would be a preferred option.
@Splinter[eP] - while you raise a good point, I don't think mafia would typically be pro no-lynch day 1, as early town miss-lynches are common and it would be easy for them to slip by without getting much notice (while an innocent townie is killed off).
Please remember when voting that the voting format is as follows:
##Vote: playername
Also, votes are not final and may be unvoted in this format:
##Unvote
As a reminder, the deadline is currently set at 21:59 GMT (+00:00). Thats approximately 53 hours from now. Periodic vote counts will be given as it approaches the deadline. ~Nova
for lynching on day 1 you need to be about 50% sure for it to be profitable in the long run. so we should probably do it, but you just have to wait and see. right now obviously I'm not 50% sure on anyone.
On April 26 2012 22:43 Lazermonkey wrote: Alot of people are inexperienced and WILL ''scumslip'' even tho they are townies. I'm not saying that you shouldn't analyse what people are saying, but rather that you shouldn't tunnel someone just because you thought something they said in one of their very first posts was suspicous.
this is a great point and is why town is currently losing in X, also due to inactivity. mafia don't make the little semantic "slips" that people are usually looking for. in fact careless posting is a sign of a town player, as they aren't nearly as paranoid when they post.
I noticed the same yomi, they are currently lurking. And back to the "lynch, no lynch" topic, yomi you make a good point is your previous 2 post. we can't just lynch for the sake of lynching, it needs to benefit the town. And just lynching a townie and not learning anything is just a waste. so personally i'd say lynch if suspicion be, and if not? i see no point in random lynching.
ya rando lynch is bad that's 25% I think to hit which is not profit. But you only need 25 more points to get to 50% and then we are in profit territory so we'll see how it plays out. if everyone is getting along friendly and lurking all day like they are now then we can't do anything.
Shit. I was asleep or at class until now. Anyways, I personally think that a lynch on the first day would be a mistake. I haven't followed much mafia, played before, or read as much as I should have, and so my personal view is that it would be a shame to lynch someone solely based on trying to trim down the total pool of people in the spaceship.
As an addendum to my previous post, it is going to be hard to judge whether someone is lurking or just sleeping, seeing as we have people from USA, Europe, and even South Pacific. Since days are 24 hours and nights are 48 hours, I definitely think that you need to wait for a fairly long time (I'm thinking about 9 hours), because people do occasionally sleep If nothing else, at least for first little bit we should tell everyone our relative schedules so that there is no misunderstanding. To start this off, I will be going to class in about an hour, and after that I'll be able to post maybe once before going to work until about 10:30ish PM (AZ time)
Dude. Give it some time. We are only about 6 hours into the game, and we have almost 50 hours until voting time. We've gone thruough only 1/11th the time until the first vote. If someone only posts 3 times in the first 55 hours and has little content to judge in those posts, then you know what to do.
On April 27 2012 04:33 Jailbreaker wrote: with all this nonsense talk about scheduals and lynch/no lynch, we're forgetting about the real issue here:
THERE'S MAFIA SCUM AMONG US.
I know it is day one, but does it have to be so passive? I don't want to vote for the wrong person based on three posts
But yet your own post doesn't really contribute much at all. If you think not enough people are posting or that they are posting useless stuff, wouldn't it be better if you did some analysis yourself? I think everyone are conscious about that we have mafia among us and everyone would like to avoid dumb misslynches. You are stating the obvious here.
Your post is even a bit counterproductive in that you discouraging people from making posts about lynch/no lynch. Afaik there isn't much else to talk about atm but please let us know if there is something. Talking about peoples opinions about lynching gives us a tell on their gameplan/motives etc. so I find nothing bad with it.
I'm off to bed now. There is a chance that I will not be able to post to much untill 20:00 CEST tomorrow.
I don't get why some people want to rush to the voting, if anything we should just wait a bit longer and see if whysomuch is going to post, he's the only one who has yet to post.But like Mordanis said we've plenty of time.
This is my first game on this site, but I have played WW elsewhere so I'm not a total newbie.
First off, with regards to No-Lynch, this is a very bad idea. We have 2 kills a day as of right now, the vig and the lynch, by negating a kill we are automatically giving the wolves an edge by not taking advantage of our kill-rate. Also, even though a villager is more likely to be lynched, the information we gain via wagon analysis, late vote changes etc. becomes very valuable as we progress through the game.
And a random question: Is there any way to get more posts per page? Right now mine is set to default and couldnt find a way to make me see more posts. Idk if it's possible.
On April 26 2012 22:51 The_Zen_Man wrote: Hey guys!
This is my first game of maifa, but i have been following other games a bit. I also think that the "no lynch" option could prove useful early in the game to avoid misslynch. The other game i was following misslynched on the first day simply because they didn't have enough information.
Someone already pointed this out and I've already stated my position but I'd like to take it a step further,
I find this post very wolfy, more so than Varient or however you spell his name who said the same thing essentially, because you aren't thinking deeper. You say in the other game they mislynched on the first day because they didn't have enough information, but how do we expect to gain information if we "No Lynch"? Day 2 will essentially be a repeat of day 1.
for lynching on day 1 you need to be about 50% sure for it to be profitable in the long run. so we should probably do it, but you just have to wait and see. right now obviously I'm not 50% sure on anyone.
I don't know where you got these percentages from. But they are not correct.
day 1 lynch town night 1 lose town day 2 lynch mafia night 2 lose town day 3 lynch town night 3 lose town day 4 lynch mafia night 4 lose town
and now we have 1 mafia vs 3 town players
day 5 lynch town, leaving 2 remaining night 5 town dies 1v1 mafia wins GG
so by town wins 100% do you mean not 100%? This is the most obvious example possible and only relies on town losing the first 50/50 flip and not hitting any major power roles to create a loss scenario.
On April 27 2012 11:19 yomi wrote: day 1 lynch town night 1 lose town day 2 lynch mafia night 2 lose town day 3 lynch town night 3 lose town day 4 lynch mafia night 4 lose town
and now we have 1 mafia vs 3 town players
day 5 lynch town, leaving 2 remaining night 5 town dies 1v1 mafia wins GG
so by town wins 100% do you mean not 100%? This is the most obvious example possible and only relies on town losing the first 50/50 flip and not hitting any major power roles to create a loss scenario.
I've never heard of a 12er. but in your example your point is proven
But your chances of hitting a wolf increase as you go, there's no way in order to break even you need to hit a wolf 50% day 1
I'm going to give my opinion on the recent voting events. My initial opinion on a first day lynch was that it was a bad idea to avoid a lynch for the sake of being scared of a mis-lynch. This opinion still stands, however i feel that with such little posting from everyone its very hard to get a good read on anyone making it very easy to mafia to twist the voting without seeming suspicious. I would postulate to everyone who hasn't voted yet to hold off until closer to the deadline and let everyone who has voted thoroughly explain themselves.
I'm not against anyone's votes yet, however i am against voting without any obvious critical analysis out in the open. I want to see where you're coming from. Please show me.
When i open filters, for example nreekay's; I see very little posting or speculating and then the start of a bandwagon against Whysomuch.
I've seen yomi's play before and i understand he likes to be aggressive, and i like his aggression.. i just hope it isn't misplaced aggression and i want him to explain to me why he has picked WhySoMuch other than for his pro-first-day-lynch attitude and his contrary views on the percentages of lynching. i think you have to pick your battles and maybe lynching people with opposing views might not be the key, opposing views lead to discussion, which leads to correct eviction.
@Jailbreaker - why the vote for yomi? please explain. @yomi - can you explain to me your position on whysomuch @nreekay - you have confused me greatly with such an unreasoned vote, please explain @whysomuch - i understand your suspicion for the_zen_man, but do you think it is grounds for a lynching? how strongly do you feel he is mafia? @the_zen_man - please rebut to why_so_much not with a vote but with a clear explanation of your innocence and your views on the people voting for whysomuch.
Can the people who have been voting please post some reasoning behind why you are voting for the person you are voting for? Also if the accused would please post a coherent and calm response as to why they should not be lynched, that would be very helpful. Right now, the knee-jerk responses and anger are making it hard to focus on anything but the emotion. Anyways, I probably won't post for another 8 hours or so, just lettin y'all know so you don't think I'm lurkin :D
Again, if you've been accused and you're not one of the mafia on our ship, reacting with emotion won't help anyone. Keep calm. We will do well in a calm, rational, logical situation. We won't do well in a witch hunt. Just ask the residents of Salem, Massachussets how witch hunts help a community...... If you've been accused and you're mafia, I hope you end up following the Galileo space probe into the depths of the atmosphere of Jupiter (also if you're mafia and haven't been accused :D) Anyways, I'll be reserving my vote for a while until I hear more from everyone.
I agree Jailbreaker, we definitely need some more discourse on people actions. If you feel this voting for yomi will pressure that conversation to happen then i'm happy for you to do that. I also see this vote as a defence of WhySoMuch from Nreekay and Yomi's 'vampires&werewolves' related votes. I really need to hear from these two as soon as possible, with as much detail as they can provide. I want these votes to have a basis rather than being emotional or defensive votes.
Nreekay and Yomi if you two are town you've a strange way of showing it. To me Town is represented by clear, concise and reasoned posts with references and the goal of enlightening the group. Voting for the sake of voting creates an atmosphere of defensive attitudes and alot of misplaced suspicions, please explain your motive.
@Golden, Well for as early as it is on d1, I think my vote is fine. I'm not set in stone in lynching him, when he comes back and addresses the pressure, I will re-evaluate and go on from there.
On April 27 2012 15:05 O.Golden_ne wrote: I agree Jailbreaker, we definitely need some more discourse on people actions. If you feel this voting for yomi will pressure that conversation to happen then i'm happy for you to do that. I also see this vote as a defence of WhySoMuch from Nreekay and Yomi's 'vampires&werewolves' related votes. I really need to hear from these two as soon as possible, with as much detail as they can provide. I want these votes to have a basis rather than being emotional or defensive votes.
Nreekay and Yomi if you two are town you've a strange way of showing it. To me Town is represented by clear, concise and reasoned posts with references and the goal of enlightening the group. Voting for the sake of voting creates an atmosphere of defensive attitudes and alot of misplaced suspicions, please explain your motive.
Still waiting from answers from several people.
Golden.
... Do you mind explaining this? Especially how in that post you say
To me Town is represented by clear, concise and reasoned posts with references and the goal of enlightening the group.
These are my thoughts so far on what has been posted. right or wrong, this is my interpretation.
On April 27 2012 02:57 yomi wrote: these players havent posted:
whysomuch mordanis
calls them out for lurking: bandwagon under construction
On April 27 2012 03:24 yomi wrote: ya rando lynch is bad that's 25% I think to hit which is not profit. But you only need 25 more points to get to 50% and then we are in profit territory so we'll see how it plays out. if everyone is getting along friendly and lurking all day like they are now then we can't do anything.
and being useless: bandwagon mobilized.
On April 27 2012 03:52 Mordanis wrote: Shit. I was asleep or at class until now. Anyways, I personally think that a lynch on the first day would be a mistake. I haven't followed much mafia, played before, or read as much as I should have, and so my personal view is that it would be a shame to lynch someone solely based on trying to trim down the total pool of people in the spaceship.
OHMIGOSH was called a lurker! time to panic!
On April 27 2012 04:00 Mordanis wrote: As an addendum to my previous post, it is going to be hard to judge whether someone is lurking or just sleeping, seeing as we have people from USA, Europe, and even South Pacific. Since days are 24 hours and nights are 48 hours, I definitely think that you need to wait for a fairly long time (I'm thinking about 9 hours), because people do occasionally sleep If nothing else, at least for first little bit we should tell everyone our relative schedules so that there is no misunderstanding. To start this off, I will be going to class in about an hour, and after that I'll be able to post maybe once before going to work until about 10:30ish PM (AZ time)
Tries to clear lurker name. because hey, this is a gobal game right? somepeople might need more time. seemsreasonabletome.
On April 27 2012 04:33 Jailbreaker wrote: with all this nonsense talk about scheduals and lynch/no lynch, we're forgetting about the real issue here:
THERE'S MAFIA SCUM AMONG US.
I know it is day one, but does it have to be so passive? I don't want to vote for the wrong person based on three posts
But yet your own post doesn't really contribute much at all. If you think not enough people are posting or that they are posting useless stuff, wouldn't it be better if you did some analysis yourself? I think everyone are conscious about that we have mafia among us and everyone would like to avoid dumb misslynches. You are stating the obvious here.
Your post is even a bit counterproductive in that you discouraging people from making posts about lynch/no lynch. Afaik there isn't much else to talk about atm but please let us know if there is something. Talking about peoples opinions about lynching gives us a tell on their gameplan/motives etc. so I find nothing bad with it.
I'm off to bed now. There is a chance that I will not be able to post to much untill 20:00 CEST tomorrow.
You're right, I should put more analysis into my posts.
On April 27 2012 10:22 WhySoMuch wrote: Hey all,
This is my first game on this site, but I have played WW elsewhere so I'm not a total newbie.
First off, with regards to No-Lynch, this is a very bad idea. We have 2 kills a day as of right now, the vig and the lynch, by negating a kill we are automatically giving the wolves an edge by not taking advantage of our kill-rate. Also, even though a villager is more likely to be lynched, the information we gain via wagon analysis, late vote changes etc. becomes very valuable as we progress through the game.
And a random question: Is there any way to get more posts per page? Right now mine is set to default and couldnt find a way to make me see more posts. Idk if it's possible.
totally not drawing attention to myself
Page 5 is the Yomi versus WhySoMuch showdown Yomi votes for whysomuch, whysomuch votes for The_Zen_Man (where did this come from?) they talk about win rates for town correctly lynching and whatnot
I vote for Yomi because I feel like you are starting a bandwagon against whysomuch so early in the game then he asks why i voted for him. I think that is suspicious.
then
On April 27 2012 12:38 nreekay324 wrote: they're almost as bad as vampires ##vote: whysomuch
so confused by this, dont know what to say.
next is:
On April 27 2012 13:16 WhySoMuch wrote: nreekay's vote on me is weirder than yomi
I think I see this as: "YOMI has a reason to vote for me. Nreekay is prolly jumping on the bandwagon"
O.Golden_ne - obvious critical analysis out in the open. BOOM CHECK IT
next set of posts is my fail vote, lol. I vote for yomi for reasons stated above
Mordanis- i think he is just trying to keep a "netural" image. I'm totally against the witchhunt too, I will put more analysis into posts.
After analysis of that post i see how you can stipulate that i was contradictory. I've stated that perhaps Jailbreakers vote against yomi is what is required to get yomi to satisfactorily explain his actions and to maybe pressure nreekay to explain himself also. I think that Jailbreakers vote may have been a bit of a knee-jerk defence of WhySoMuch, but if it yields results with yomi and nreekay then i'll allow it.
i do support a first day lynch. i dont support voting for the sake of voting. i see jailbreakers vote as an opportunity to uncover other peoples motives, even though i'd rather not have to have him pressure so hard, i'd rather we were all active and could contribute.
My opinion of current votes: yomi's vote seems emotional or just misdirected agression, i need a little more proof before offering my own opinion on that matter. werewolves being gay doesnt seem like a legitimate reason for me to vote. nreekays vote seems to be a bandwagon and baseless until otherwise proven. jailbreakers vote, while perhaps it might be in the same vain as these previous two might be what is required to show some light on both their intentions. whysomuch's vote is perhaps to deflect the attention off himself. i dont feel like he has addressed yomi's vote on him particularly.
like i said, i'm waiting to hear from all these people before casting my own judgement. to avoid voting for the sake of voting.
Does that cover it Mordanis? I think other than that slight contradiction my posts have been to the point. thoughts?
Okay so you feel yomi's vote is for WhySoMuch is due to his lurking.
Just to shed some light on the matter, is it your opinion that an agressive stance towards lurkers (yomi) is less favourable than someone who would jump on a bandwagon such as that so easily? (nreekay). Perhaps the small shred of logic yomi has shown in his lurking argument makes him less suspicious than Nreekay?
I'm just speculating at the moment, still a while to go before i cast any personal judgement.
His vote on me can't be do to lurking or it makes no sense. Why would he not vote the guy who hasn't posted yet if that was his reasoning?
I didn't really address the vote on me because I thought it was a joke vote, his reasoning that went along with it are because werewolves are gay, which isn't really much to respond to.
That said I'm willing to say Yomi is a villager albeit misguided because a wolf wouldn't vote me in that spot.
The other guys vote on me, Nreekay, is super sketch though.
And Golden has used very long posts to hide the fact that he isn't taking stances in any of his posts. I don't think it's hard to take a stance on something, and the fact that he isn't shows that he doesn't want to be "wrong", wolves worry about that stuff, villagers don't.
As posted in Mordanis posts: "it is going to be hard to judge whether someone is lurking or just sleeping"
There are several who have very few posts: Starting from "day one" Lazermonkey with 2 Pure-SC2 with 3 The_Zen_Man with 1 Veriat with 3 Splinter[eP] with 1 nreekay324 with 3 AcesAnoka with 2
everyone else has at least +7 posts. more posts, more to analyze
Give people time to get in here. If they still don't show up towards the end of day then we can go after them. Lurkers make for easy mislynches and let wolves avoid heat.
I am not shrouding the fact that I havent taken any stances in fact i have made it very clear. I fully plan on making my opinions even more clear when I come up with a case. I am just not jumping to any conclusion this early in the game, before I get my facts straight. I write long posts as I don't want to be misquoted from short one liners.
Also, do you feel that my posts have been contentless or have I been helpful in analyzing the current voting against you and the others?
@WhySoMuch - we are townies on a spaceship with 3 mafia hiding amongst us. There are no villagers, there are no wolfs. Keep referencing these and I will assume you are insane and request for you to be thrown out the airlock.
You can quote multiple people in the same post by using copy and paste. Quote post, copy, then paste into another link. Not hard. Click the "all" button next to the page numbers to see all pages. Surely you aren't this blind and asked these inane questions to clutter up the thread for some reason?
@Jailbreaker - you have an aggressive day 1 with some pretty fail logic.
On April 27 2012 16:05 Jailbreaker wrote: Semi Long Post Warning + Show Spoiler +
These are my thoughts so far on what has been posted. right or wrong, this is my interpretation.
On April 27 2012 02:57 yomi wrote: these players havent posted:
whysomuch mordanis
calls them out for lurking: bandwagon under construction
On April 27 2012 03:24 yomi wrote: ya rando lynch is bad that's 25% I think to hit which is not profit. But you only need 25 more points to get to 50% and then we are in profit territory so we'll see how it plays out. if everyone is getting along friendly and lurking all day like they are now then we can't do anything.
and being useless: bandwagon mobilized.
On April 27 2012 03:52 Mordanis wrote: Shit. I was asleep or at class until now. Anyways, I personally think that a lynch on the first day would be a mistake. I haven't followed much mafia, played before, or read as much as I should have, and so my personal view is that it would be a shame to lynch someone solely based on trying to trim down the total pool of people in the spaceship.
OHMIGOSH was called a lurker! time to panic!
On April 27 2012 04:00 Mordanis wrote: As an addendum to my previous post, it is going to be hard to judge whether someone is lurking or just sleeping, seeing as we have people from USA, Europe, and even South Pacific. Since days are 24 hours and nights are 48 hours, I definitely think that you need to wait for a fairly long time (I'm thinking about 9 hours), because people do occasionally sleep If nothing else, at least for first little bit we should tell everyone our relative schedules so that there is no misunderstanding. To start this off, I will be going to class in about an hour, and after that I'll be able to post maybe once before going to work until about 10:30ish PM (AZ time)
Tries to clear lurker name. because hey, this is a gobal game right? somepeople might need more time. seemsreasonabletome.
On April 27 2012 04:33 Jailbreaker wrote: with all this nonsense talk about scheduals and lynch/no lynch, we're forgetting about the real issue here:
THERE'S MAFIA SCUM AMONG US.
I know it is day one, but does it have to be so passive? I don't want to vote for the wrong person based on three posts
But yet your own post doesn't really contribute much at all. If you think not enough people are posting or that they are posting useless stuff, wouldn't it be better if you did some analysis yourself? I think everyone are conscious about that we have mafia among us and everyone would like to avoid dumb misslynches. You are stating the obvious here.
Your post is even a bit counterproductive in that you discouraging people from making posts about lynch/no lynch. Afaik there isn't much else to talk about atm but please let us know if there is something. Talking about peoples opinions about lynching gives us a tell on their gameplan/motives etc. so I find nothing bad with it.
I'm off to bed now. There is a chance that I will not be able to post to much untill 20:00 CEST tomorrow.
You're right, I should put more analysis into my posts.
On April 27 2012 10:22 WhySoMuch wrote: Hey all,
This is my first game on this site, but I have played WW elsewhere so I'm not a total newbie.
First off, with regards to No-Lynch, this is a very bad idea. We have 2 kills a day as of right now, the vig and the lynch, by negating a kill we are automatically giving the wolves an edge by not taking advantage of our kill-rate. Also, even though a villager is more likely to be lynched, the information we gain via wagon analysis, late vote changes etc. becomes very valuable as we progress through the game.
And a random question: Is there any way to get more posts per page? Right now mine is set to default and couldnt find a way to make me see more posts. Idk if it's possible.
totally not drawing attention to myself
Page 5 is the Yomi versus WhySoMuch showdown Yomi votes for whysomuch, whysomuch votes for The_Zen_Man (where did this come from?) they talk about win rates for town correctly lynching and whatnot
I vote for Yomi because I feel like you are starting a bandwagon against whysomuch so early in the game then he asks why i voted for him. I think that is suspicious.
then
On April 27 2012 12:38 nreekay324 wrote: they're almost as bad as vampires ##vote: whysomuch
so confused by this, dont know what to say.
next is:
On April 27 2012 13:16 WhySoMuch wrote: nreekay's vote on me is weirder than yomi
I think I see this as: "YOMI has a reason to vote for me. Nreekay is prolly jumping on the bandwagon"
O.Golden_ne - obvious critical analysis out in the open. BOOM CHECK IT
next set of posts is my fail vote, lol. I vote for yomi for reasons stated above
Mordanis- i think he is just trying to keep a "netural" image. I'm totally against the witchhunt too, I will put more analysis into posts.
Regarding your post.
- Why is pointing out lurkers a bandwagon under construction? If that's how you interpret it, then what the hell is this post from you?
On April 27 2012 16:47 Jailbreaker wrote: As posted in Mordanis posts: "it is going to be hard to judge whether someone is lurking or just sleeping"
There are several who have very few posts: Starting from "day one" Lazermonkey with 2 Pure-SC2 with 3 The_Zen_Man with 1 Veriat with 3 Splinter[eP] with 1 nreekay324 with 3 AcesAnoka with 2
everyone else has at least +7 posts. more posts, more to analyze
- You think that it's suspicious that Yomi asks why voted for him after you didn't state a reason? What?!
I vote for Yomi because I feel like you are starting a bandwagon against whysomuch so early in the game then he asks why i voted for him. I think that is suspicious.
- On top of that you've tried to shut down valid discussion on no lynch, and have stated you don't care if we miss-lynch because collateral damage happens.
I'm not sure about you. Seems too aggressive to be scummy, but something seems off.
@AcesAnoka - We need you to add to the discussion. You made a silly statement in your first post "I think we've established that Day 1 should be a No-lynch" which was by no means established other than a few people stating that as their preference in the absence of a better case.
The only other thing you've stated is not wanting to rush to voting. That is all you've contributed.
What is your read on Jailbreaker? From everyones posts so far, who are the two people you find most suspicious?
On April 27 2012 17:06 O.Golden_ne wrote: Whysomuch,
I am not shrouding the fact that I havent taken any stances in fact i have made it very clear. I fully plan on making my opinions even more clear when I come up with a case. I am just not jumping to any conclusion this early in the game, before I get my facts straight. I write long posts as I don't want to be misquoted from short one liners.
Also, do you feel that my posts have been contentless or have I been helpful in analyzing the current voting against you and the others?
Golden
I know you have said you are going to make stance but you have yet to do so.
Someone voted me with lame reasoning, you can either find that wolfy or find that villagery. If they don't add any context then you have to figure out what that means. It's not that you don't have all the facts, you do have all the facts. But from that you aren't drawing conclusions.
On April 27 2012 18:02 Pure-SC2 wrote: @WhySoMuch - we are townies on a spaceship with 3 mafia hiding amongst us. There are no villagers, there are no wolfs. Keep referencing these and I will assume you are insane and request for you to be thrown out the airlock.
You can quote multiple people in the same post by using copy and paste. Quote post, copy, then paste into another link. Not hard. Click the "all" button next to the page numbers to see all pages. Surely you aren't this blind and asked these inane questions to clutter up the thread for some reason?
Villagers/wolves, Townies/mafia, all the same, I will do my best to reference them as such but if I make a mistake here or there I'm sorry, I have it ingrained in me that it's villagers/wolves
As for the second, thank you for explaining, though you didnt need to do it with a condescending tone. From the forum I'm from, it is laid out very different than this forum and so yes I needed to figure out how you do it.
On April 27 2012 18:32 WhySoMuch wrote: No Lynching today is about the worse thing we can do today.
Why? Would miss-lynching a townie make you happy? What makes you think we don't get information from No Lynch winning the vote?
Lol no it wouldn't make me happy, but the information we gain from it outweighs the negative.
We don't get information from No Lynch because no one dies. The only way we get information is if there is a competing wagon against it, and in that case, that information isn't useful until that said competing wagon dies.
On April 27 2012 18:32 WhySoMuch wrote: No Lynching today is about the worse thing we can do today.
Why? Would miss-lynching a townie make you happy? What makes you think we don't get information from No Lynch winning the vote?
Lol no it wouldn't make me happy, but the information we gain from it outweighs the negative.
We don't get information from No Lynch because no one dies. The only way we get information is if there is a competing wagon against it, and in that case, that information isn't useful until that said competing wagon dies.
The information we gain today (whether we push a lynch on a suspected scum, a lurker or a no lynch) all provides us information based on who votes for what, and the reasons why. It's not always clear on Day 1 what this information means, and the game cannot be won or lost on Day 1.
If there are no solid scum reads (with supporting cases), and no clear lurker lynch, then why push a lynch on a possible townie? Then we are one townie down and giving an advantage to the scum.
So I'd say regardless of what or who is voted for, we gain information.
So considering you are pushing for a lynch regardless, who is your strongest scum read? The_Zen_Man?
The information we gain today (whether we push a lynch on a suspected scum, a lurker or a no lynch) all provides us information based on who votes for what, and the reasons why. It's not always clear on Day 1 what this information means, and the game cannot be won or lost on Day 1.
If there are no solid scum reads (with supporting cases), and no clear lurker lynch, then why push a lynch on a possible townie? Then we are one townie down and giving an advantage to the scum.
So I'd say regardless of what or who is voted for, we gain information.
So considering you are pushing for a lynch regardless, who is your strongest scum read? The_Zen_Man?
But see by forcing people to vote for players we catch them in contradictions. No Lynch is a cop out vote, It gives everyone an excuse. "I didn't find xxx wolfy therefore I vote No Lynch". This is incredibly bad for the village. Where, if we have two competing wagons for the lead, people have to make decisions on who to vote for, a lot of times people forget what they wrote in earlier posts and will make votes contradicting their posts. This is invaluable information that we are giving up.
Say we do lynch a townie, but the wagons are close and later on in the game, the counter-wagon flips wolf, we learn so much more.
Plus on top of that, How is the village suppose to win this game if we don't use our kills? By No lynching we are essentially playing down a man from the start.
And yes, The_Zen_Man is my biggest mafia read aorn. But He hasn't posted since his opening so we will give him time
nkeeray's vote on me is really weird and I don't like it. Like why does he vote me there? he's playing on a joke vote from yomi, It just doesn't make sense
Lol no it wouldn't make me happy, but the information we gain from it outweighs the negative.
We don't get information from No Lynch because no one dies. The only way we get information is if there is a competing wagon against it, and in that case, that information isn't useful until that said competing wagon dies.
Even if nobody is lynched day1, we still gain a ton of imformation through our discussion. Even as we are discussing now, we are starting to get a picture on peoples view points, and where they stand. Sure we get more information when lynching, because we can start to analyse those who were for and those who were againts the lynch. But saying that no information is gained if we don't lynch is just false. Because we still get to anylase peoples behaviour.
First, i would like to say that the reason for the time it took for this respond is beacause school/sleep. Im currently still in school, but i found time to post this.
WhySoMuch: I understand that my first post would seem suspicous, but i think u misunderstood me. I simply don't want a lynch just for the sake of lynch. If we have information, or if we are sure we would gain some information by lynching then we should do it. But if we just lynch someone because we don't have anyone else, that would probably result in a townie dead. Early in the game that kind of information might not be available, that is why i said nolynch could be useful early. Also, i understand that u voted for me to pressure me to respond, but if you still choose to keep voting on me you should give me a better explination.
I can't post for a few hours, but when i get home i will post some more including my thouhts on some other people.
Ok, we get very little information. We mine as well just make a longer day 1 and allow the wolves to kill whoever if we are going to no lynch. We get no extra information that we wouldn't have already have. Regardless if we no lynch or lynch someone we get to see where people stand and their views, that doesn't change if we lynch someone.
On April 27 2012 19:16 The_Zen_Man wrote: First, i would like to say that the reason for the time it took for this respond is beacause school/sleep. Im currently still in school, but i found time to post this.
WhySoMuch: I understand that my first post would seem suspicous, but i think u misunderstood me. I simply don't want a lynch just for the sake of lynch. If we have information, or if we are sure we would gain some information by lynching then we should do it. But if we just lynch someone because we don't have anyone else, that would probably result in a townie dead. Early in the game that kind of information might not be available, that is why i said nolynch could be useful early. Also, i understand that u voted for me to pressure me to respond, but if you still choose to keep voting on me you should give me a better explination.
I can't post for a few hours, but when i get home i will post some more including my thouhts on some other people.
This whole post just seems off to me.
Like you think this is what a townie would say
But a few things:
1st underline: we gain information by lynching someone, it's not an "if", I am 100% sure we gain knowledge by lynching anyone today. And if your a townie you should realize this, as of yet no one has implied we don't gain knowledge by lynching someone except you.
2nd underline: We don't ever lynch someone just cause, that just doesn't happen. We lay out our views and decide who seems most likely to be a mafia and we vote them.
Whysomych: In your 1st underline you write that i should know that we gain knowledge by lynching someone if i was a townie, which dosen't make sense to me. If i had or did not have that knowledge before would not really define wether im a townie or not, as anyone with experience in the game would know that. But your post before that makes sense now that i think about it. Who people vote for during the lynch, and how they act before is valuable information. Im very new to this game and i am sill figuring it out, so if i acted suspicous it is only because of that. Also, if i was scum i would push for a lynch rather that nolynch, as scum can easily go undetected in the early game and let us lynch a townie.
If u have further concern regarding me, please express them so that i can answer them.
But still, regardless of what we choose, we will still gain information from the vote. In that way, we can gain information without the risk of lynching a townie, as stated above by Pure.
Also Whysomuch, there is some things about u that i find strange. On your post where you first state your reasons for suspecting me of being scum, you barealy even mentioned the post under me, which almost said the same thing that mine did. Instead, u put a pressure vote on me and do not even ask veriat to explain himself.
One other thing i find strange is how far your suspicions against me went after only 1 post, which was confirmed to be my first. Direclty after you were stated as a lurker you seemed to turn the attention against me, and almost immediatly voted for me. Was my first post really that suspicous?
On April 27 2012 21:26 The_Zen_Man wrote: But still, regardless of what we choose, we will still gain information from the vote. In that way, we can gain information without the risk of lynching a townie, as stated above by Pure.
On April 27 2012 21:20 The_Zen_Man wrote: Also, if i was scum i would push for a lynch rather that nolynch, as scum can easily go undetected in the early game and let us lynch a townie.
Exactly what information would be given by a no-lynch? I don't really get this. And also, why would scum ever oppose to no-lynch? Sure they might not get a misslynch but on the other hand no information will be given. Misslynches are beneficial for scum but so are no-lynches. Therefore trying to see a connection between who wanted to lynch/no-lynch will not really give us any information at all. So in the end most cases on day 2 would be based upon mass WIFOM.
I don't really like no-lynching at all. The opinion could be usefull in case we are completely clueless at the time of the vote, but then we are probebly royally screwed anyways.
I don't have alot of time atm. Will post something longer in the evening.
If you have a question that is not referenced in the rules, please remember that you can ask us at any time by using Bold and green text? We will try to answer in a timely manner, as we are here often. Vote count coming in a couple hours. Please keep in mind that votes in an incorrect format will not be counted. There are still votes that have not been fixed (I.E. Incorrect capitalization). Don't worry, there is still plenty of time (Approximately 32.5 hours, correct me if I am wrong.)
On April 27 2012 21:26 The_Zen_Man wrote: But still, regardless of what we choose, we will still gain information from the vote. In that way, we can gain information without the risk of lynching a townie, as stated above by Pure.
On April 27 2012 21:20 The_Zen_Man wrote: Also, if i was scum i would push for a lynch rather that nolynch, as scum can easily go undetected in the early game and let us lynch a townie.
Exactly what information would be given by a no-lynch? I don't really get this. And also, why would scum ever oppose to no-lynch? Sure they might not get a misslynch but on the other hand no information will be given. Misslynches are beneficial for scum but so are no-lynches. Therefore trying to see a connection between who wanted to lynch/no-lynch will not really give us any information at all. So in the end most cases on day 2 would be based upon mass WIFOM.
I don't really like no-lynching at all. The opinion could be usefull in case we are completely clueless at the time of the vote, but then we are probebly royally screwed anyways.
I don't have alot of time atm. Will post something longer in the evening.
If we vote for a nolynch there will still be people, like yourself, that would oppose that and vote for a person instead. We can use that information to decide everyone standings. The time before deadline will also give us information, as we can observe how people act then.
Also, concerning the second quote, you should read my post. I didn't say that scum would be opposed to a nolynch, simply that they would rather push for a lynch on a innocent townie than miss that chance to kill.
On April 27 2012 22:48 The_Zen_Man wrote: Also, concerning the second quote, you should read my post. I didn't say that scum would be opposed to a nolynch, simply that they would rather push for a lynch on a innocent townie than miss that chance to kill.
This is the point I think most people miss when discussing this. All of the discussion around it and eventual votes on whoever is all information for us. Even peoples stances on it gives some clues as to what they are thinking and help build the picture of peoples motives as the days roll on.
A lot has happened when I wasn't here I see. I'll add my analysis now.
first of all:
On April 27 2012 18:24 Pure-SC2 wrote: @AcesAnoka - We need you to add to the discussion. You made a silly statement in your first post "I think we've established that Day 1 should be a No-lynch" which was by no means established other than a few people stating that as their preference in the absence of a better case.
The only other thing you've stated is not wanting to rush to voting. That is all you've contributed.
What is your read on Jailbreaker? From everyones posts so far, who are the two people you find most suspicious?
I agree that that statement was a bit silly(I could've said it was the preferred method by some including me at that time) But have you read the sentence after that? In that sentence I say that if it's blatantly obvious somoene is trying to hide something, is too agressive,... we should have a day 1 Lynch. Keep in mind also that at that point in time there wasn't many developments in this thread, which has now changed.(as did my opinion on not lynching)
Also my post on not rushing to vote was because at that point WhySoMuch hadn't posted and some people were already a bit antsy
Jailbreaker :
with all this nonsense talk about scheduals and lynch/no lynch, we're forgetting about the real issue here:
THERE'S MAFIA SCUM AMONG US.
I know it is day one, but does it have to be so passive? I don't want to vote for the wrong person based on three posts
On to the part which is actually interesting, my analysis on what has happened the past day or so:
First of all we see yomi voting on WhySoMuch with the reasoning: werewolves are gay (Read: no reason at all) He has yet to even explain WHY he voted on WhySoMuch, but when people actually vote on him (Jailbreaker) he immediately posts yet another one of his oneliners which add nothing to the discussion at all.
Like WhySoMuch said nreekay's vote is a little bit odd too, he votes on WhySoMuch for the same reason as yomi(none). Taking a look at his post history he also hasn't contributed a lot, but now he ALSO votes for whysomuch for no apparent reason at all. Isn't that the same thing we've seen with Yomi?
For now, until Yomi can properly explain his actions:
@AcesAnoka - Yomi has a bit of a reputation from his last 2 newbie games and he tends to play the same way regardless of if he is scum or town. He's essentially trying to stir up discussion by posting "off the wall" (yomi feel free to correct me here if you'd explain it differently). Last game it got him lynched day 1 and he was town, so while it's good to pressure him like you are, bare in mind that this is essentially how he plays.
@nreekay324 - You need to bring some original discussion to the table. Your meta is very different from your last game at this stage, and you have voted on whysomuch for no apparent reason.
On April 28 2012 00:08 Pure-SC2 wrote: @nreekay324 - You need to bring some original discussion to the table. Your meta is very different from your last game at this stage, and you have voted on whysomuch for no apparent reason.
On April 27 2012 23:58 Pure-SC2 wrote: @AcesAnoka - Yomi has a bit of a reputation from his last 2 newbie games and he tends to play the same way regardless of if he is scum or town. He's essentially trying to stir up discussion by posting "off the wall" (yomi feel free to correct me here if you'd explain it differently). Last game it got him lynched day 1 and he was town, so while it's good to pressure him like you are, bare in mind that this is essentially how he plays.
Yes, it might be his playstyle but it doesn't change the fact that he hasn't given any reason at all to vote for whysomuch, whilst I have now against him. We still have a lot of hours to go until the votes are counted and yomi has until then too give a valid reason, I don't think he'd explain himself if i DID'NT put some pressure on by putting my vote on him for the moment.
Sorry for not posting in ~24 hours, busy day at work + food poisoning = not fun. However, let me preface my message by saying that I believe that the most suspicious player here IMO is AcesAnoka.
Let me start with AcesAnoka. This is his first post:
On April 27 2012 00:31 AcesAnoka wrote: Hello everyone!
This is my first game of mafia but I already love it! The theme is amazing too, we're on a spaceship!
On a more serious note, I think we've established that Day 1 should be a No-lynch, we should wait and see how the first night develops. HOWEVER, if its blatantly obvious that there IS one trying to hide something, not saying anything, things could change around.
Thoughts?
Right off the bat, he takes a middle-of-the-ground position. He says that we've 'established' that day 1 should be no-lynch, then immediately counters his own point by saying "things could change around." This allows him to avoid aligning with any particular viewpoint, as seen by his response to Pure-SC2 here:
On April 27 2012 18:24 Pure-SC2 wrote: @AcesAnoka - We need you to add to the discussion. You made a silly statement in your first post "I think we've established that Day 1 should be a No-lynch" which was by no means established other than a few people stating that as their preference in the absence of a better case.
The only other thing you've stated is not wanting to rush to voting. That is all you've contributed.
What is your read on Jailbreaker? From everyones posts so far, who are the two people you find most suspicious?
I agree that that statement was a bit silly(I could've said it was the preferred method by some including me at that time) But have you read the sentence after that? In that sentence I say that if it's blatantly obvious somoene is trying to hide something, is too agressive,... we should have a day 1 Lynch. Keep in mind also that at that point in time there wasn't many developments in this thread, which has now changed.(as did my opinion on not lynching)
Also my post on not rushing to vote was because at that point WhySoMuch hadn't posted and some people were already a bit antsy
On to the part which is actually interesting, my analysis on what has happened the past day or so:
First of all we see yomi voting on WhySoMuch with the reasoning: werewolves are gay (Read: no reason at all) He has yet to even explain WHY he voted on WhySoMuch, but when people actually vote on him (Jailbreaker) he immediately posts yet another one of his oneliners which add nothing to the discussion at all.
Like WhySoMuch said nreekay's vote is a little bit odd too, he votes on WhySoMuch for the same reason as yomi(none). Taking a look at his post history he also hasn't contributed a lot, but now he ALSO votes for whysomuch for no apparent reason at all. Isn't that the same thing we've seen with Yomi?
For now, until Yomi can properly explain his actions:
##Vote: yomi
In the sentence I underlined, he does two things: first, the attempt to avoid any sort of suspicion by aligning himself to the argument that seems safest, aka "there should be a lynch." His first post allows him to be sly and do this - if the conversation had steered toward no-lynch being a safe argument, he could have just as easily claimed he said there should be no lynch, and no one else has called him on it yet. Secondly, he contradicts his previous quote. " if its blatantly obvious that there IS one trying to hide something, not saying anything, things could change around." VS. " if it's blatantly obvious somoene is trying to hide something, is too agressive" Notice the wording. The first sentence, he says if someone is INACTIVE they look suspicious. In the second, he says if they're TOO active/aggressive they look suspicious. Either this is bad town play, or extremely suspicious as he is changing his wording to avoid any suspicion.
I think pointing the finger at yomi is fruitless as he hasn't said enough to get in trouble. It looks kind of fishy but if you look at his previous game you can just see his playstyle as being extremely similar to this, and he flipped town. I would post more analysis but I'm on a work break so I have to get back to it!
Also, finally after the second post AcesAnoka bandwagons on yomi and whysomuch in what could possibly be a distraction, as you already know that I think there isn't enough info on yomi.
On April 27 2012 21:20 The_Zen_Man wrote: Whysomych: In your 1st underline you write that i should know that we gain knowledge by lynching someone if i was a townie, which dosen't make sense to me. If i had or did not have that knowledge before would not really define wether im a townie or not, as anyone with experience in the game would know that. But your post before that makes sense now that i think about it. Who people vote for during the lynch, and how they act before is valuable information. Im very new to this game and i am sill figuring it out, so if i acted suspicous it is only because of that. Also, if i was scum i would push for a lynch rather that nolynch, as scum can easily go undetected in the early game and let us lynch a townie.
If u have further concern regarding me, please express them so that i can answer them.
It's more of a way a villager thinks, like everyone intuitively knows that we get more knowledge as we lynch someone but wolves tend to not use "deeper" logic.
I will lay off of you for now though, I still have you as a wolf though.
Right off the bat, he takes a middle-of-the-ground position. He says that we've 'established' that day 1 should be no-lynch, then immediately counters his own point by saying "things could change around." This allows him to avoid aligning with any particular viewpoint, as seen by his response to Pure-SC2 here:
In the sentence I underlined, he does two things: first, the attempt to avoid any sort of suspicion by aligning himself to the argument that seems safest, aka "there should be a lynch." His first post allows him to be sly and do this - if the conversation had steered toward no-lynch being a safe argument, he could have just as easily claimed he said there should be no lynch, and no one else has called him on it yet. Secondly, he contradicts his previous quote. " if its blatantly obvious that there IS one trying to hide something, not saying anything, things could change around." VS. " if it's blatantly obvious somoene is trying to hide something, is too agressive" Notice the wording. The first sentence, he says if someone is INACTIVE they look suspicious. In the second, he says if they're TOO active/aggressive they look suspicious. Either this is bad town play, or extremely suspicious as he is changing his wording to avoid any suspicion.
I think pointing the finger at yomi is fruitless as he hasn't said enough to get in trouble. It looks kind of fishy but if you look at his previous game you can just see his playstyle as being extremely similar to this, and he flipped town. I would post more analysis but I'm on a work break so I have to get back to it!
I'm tired of saying that my word use was a bit off in that sentence, I already said in previous post it'd had been better if I said it were the better option, my point that 'things could change around' still stands though.
earlier post by me: I agree that that statement was a bit silly(I could've said it was the preferred method by some including me at that time)
Also about being suspicious, doesn't it both hold true? If you're too agressive you are suspicious, if you're too passive (not saying a word,...) you're also suspicious.
Whats suspicious about me if I say that x is bad in one post and y is bad in another? They both are bad, are they not?
I explained that my vote for yomi was to get a response out of him as to why exactly he voted for WhySoMuch, there's still a lot of time and my vote is CERTAINLY not yet decided.
I agree that he has no reason for his voting, but he had exactly zero reason last time he played and he flipped green, meaning that his similar playstyle so far gives us zero indication that he is mafia because there is no deviation. I think it's bad town play, but bad town play is not necessarily mafia play.
[QUOTE]On April 28 2012 01:25 AcesAnoka wrote: [QUOTE] Also about being suspicious, doesn't it both hold true? If you're too agressive you are suspicious, if you're too passive (not saying a word,...) you're also suspicious.
Whats suspicious about me if I say that x is bad in one post and y is bad in another? They both are bad, are they not?
I explained that my vote for yomi was to get a response out of him as to why exactly he voted for WhySoMuch, there's still a lot of time and my vote is CERTAINLY not yet decided.
[/QUOTE]
Again, you leave no breathing room for what can be classified by your ruleset as "normal" town play. What exactly is too much or too little? It's suspicious because you try too hard to cover all YOUR bases and play defensively, instead of active investigation into who could be mafia. Generic posts like the ones you make provide nothing.
You wanted reasoning out of Yomi, and he already gave it. [QUOTE]On April 27 2012 10:33 yomi wrote: vote## whysomuch werewolves are gay[/QUOTE] It's bad 'reasoning,' rather nonexistent; however look at mafia X and you can see he just randomly votes for someone to incite reaction/discussion. Not defending him, as he could be mafia but I don't think anyone is going to get much out of him in day 1. Rather I would take a look at WhySoMuch's reaction to rule him as either suspicious/not, which I haven't had enough time to go through the entire chain of posts analytically yet.
So i've sat back and had a thought about how things are looking and here is my current read. I'm going to post my opinions before bed now, and then cast my vote tomorrow based on any discussion that ensues in the next few hours.
Reasoning: Nreekay has been very elusive. He has lurked, and then jumped on someone else's vote in a fashion that leads me to think he was aiming for a bandwagon. He has had ample time to rebut to any accusations and explain his position on WhySoMuch but has still yet to be heard from. Lurking and impulse voting, i would be happy to lynch him if he can't seriously change his act.
AcesAnoka opened with some confusing statements, then lurked hard. While i understand one can't be active 24/7 i still feel like everything he has posted has been fairly fluffy with not much of substance to it. My read on his vote on yomi is that of the two (arguabley) most suspicious player (atleast, most talked about so far) yomi and nreekay, he would prefer to pick yomi: perhaps because if nreekay is mafia he wants to keep him alive. I feel nreekay appears far more scummy than yomi, and there may be a slight correlation between these two characters.
JailBreaker's stance on yomi is reasoned on his assault on "lurkers". I felt this to be fairly aggressive play for mafia, thats why he is below the previous two. However the logic in his argument against yomi seems flawed, it appears he has targeted him solely for bandwagoning. His largest post to date appears that he is trying to appear helpful (a recurring theme) without doing a whole lot. For Jailbreaker to 'break' out of my 3rd place scum it wouldn't be hard, he would need to add a little more depth to his posting.
Thoughts everyone?
I'm reserving judgement on yomi at the present time, though his aggro play leads me to believe him to be town. His style is similar to Jailbreakers albeit it more active than re-active. The active nature makes him less suspicious to me then Jailbreakers. Currently i'm probably skeptical on yomi and he's probably next under JailBreaker.
@Splinter, @WhySoMuch, @PureSC2 i get town vibes from you three, don't let me down.. @Mordanis you seem town though i'm watching you very closely as you appear very guarded.
@Veriat @LazerMonkey You puzzle me. Get active or i'll start scrutinizing you alot harder and get a proper read on you.
Again, you leave no breathing room for what can be classified by your ruleset as "normal" town play. What exactly is too much or too little? It's suspicious because you try too hard to cover all YOUR bases and play defensively, instead of active investigation into who could be mafia. Generic posts like the ones you make provide nothing.
Have I in the past posts not made an analysis of what I've seen? As of now I'm just waiting for yomi to respond. Read all my posts please..
You wanted reasoning out of Yomi, and he already gave it.
It's bad 'reasoning,' rather nonexistent; however look at mafia X and you can see he just randomly votes for someone to incite reaction/discussion. Not defending him, as he could be mafia but I don't think anyone is going to get much out of him in day
Aye, I said in my post that that was his reasoning, but it isn't valid, and until he comes up with a valid reason to vote for Whysomuch he's suspicious to me. What's the point again in voting without a reason?
It might be Yomi's playstyle but it doesn't take away that just voting for the heck of it is a bad thing.
AcesAnoka opened with some confusing statements, then lurked hard. While i understand one can't be active 24/7 i still feel like everything he has posted has been fairly fluffy with not much of substance to it. My read on his vote on yomi is that of the two (arguabley) most suspicious player (atleast, most talked about so far) yomi and nreekay, he would prefer to pick yomi: perhaps because if nreekay is mafia he wants to keep him alive. I feel nreekay appears far more scummy than yomi, and there may be a slight correlation between these two characters.
'Lurking hard?'
I cant be on 24/7, I have school to attend too. While I'm home I try to post as much as possible and be as helpful as possible.(like now.)
About my vote on Yomi, he has posted a bit more and just seems more suspicious than nreekay at this point to me.
However, nreekay has not been posting a lot and he has the same reasoning in his vote as yomi (=none). He has to explain his reasoning.
I'm not trying to save nreekay by not voting on him, I'm just more interested to hear what yomi has to hear because hes most suspicious out of the two for me.
Hey I just have a quick break between classes. Ya my vote was just to cure the lack of posting. I posted my "reason" aka no reason just picking on someone. ##unvote
It might be Yomi's playstyle but it doesn't take away that just voting for the heck of it is a bad thing.
It really isn't though. No one was talking about anything before. Now they are talking about someone. It's not instant majority or anything so no one was ever in danger of being lynched. Voting is a good thing, everyone should vote early and vote often. It makes it tougher for mafia if they can't just fit in and vote really late. Mafia prefer if everyone votes late so they can fit in with other late voters and just bandwagon on to whatever case is best for them.
It might be Yomi's playstyle but it doesn't take away that just voting for the heck of it is a bad thing.
It really isn't though. No one was talking about anything before. Now they are talking about someone. It's not instant majority or anything so no one was ever in danger of being lynched. Voting is a good thing, everyone should vote early and vote often. It makes it tougher for mafia if they can't just fit in and vote really late. Mafia prefer if everyone votes late so they can fit in with other late voters and just bandwagon on to whatever case is best for them.
Yeah, pretty much +1 to this post.
I didn't care that he voted me, I figured it was just an early throwaway vote to gage a reaction Hence I really don't think yomi's vote on me was wolfy at all.
Wolves don't make those type of votes, it's nreekay's vote on me that is sketch. Still waiting for him to come back and see what he has to say
If i have seemed inactive, i will try to make up for it now. Below i will give my opinions on a few players.
WhySoMuch: I still find it strange that you were so aggresive towards me early in the game after i had only posted one post. I also find it strange that you barely mentioned Veriat who's first post was very similliar to mine. Said this before, but can you please explain you're actions here? Also, why didn't you aske yomi for further explination on his vote on you? Instead you voted on me and had some few posts where you conversed with yomi. This also seemed strange to me. Please explain.
Yomi: Not 100% sure on you, but you seem to aggressive for being mafia. Maybe you should have given a better explanation than the one you gave when you voted.
LazerMonkey: You seem to be very busy irl, but you could try to contribute a little. So far, i don't think you have contributed much at all.
AcesAnoka: You seem suspicous to me. You're first comment was rather strange, but i know you shoulnd't judge someone too much based on what they first wrote. I think it was a good thing you put that pressure vote on yomi, after all it did give a response from him.
Veriat: I find it strange that you posted a very similliar post just after mine. I do however like your post where you explain how we would gain information if nolynch. Try to contribute more.
O.Golden_ne: I like your playing style. You encourage everyone to stay calm when they seem emotional and explain themselves when they seem suspicous.
Pure-SC2: You have very good analytical posts, and you are one of the players that contribute the most. Keep it up!
nreekay324 : Im not sure if you are lurking or just not able to post, but you seem really suspicious at the moment. Please explain yourself, and also your vote.
On April 28 2012 03:05 The_Zen_Man wrote: If i have seemed inactive, i will try to make up for it now. Below i will give my opinions on a few players.
WhySoMuch: I still find it strange that you were so aggresive towards me early in the game after i had only posted one post. I also find it strange that you barely mentioned Veriat who's first post was very similliar to mine. Said this before, but can you please explain you're actions here? Also, why didn't you aske yomi for further explination on his vote on you? Instead you voted on me and had some few posts where you conversed with yomi. This also seemed strange to me. Please explain.
There were differences in his post that made me less suspicious of him. For example when you said "The village mislynched SIMPLY because they did not have enough information".
This is just worded weirdly and extra careful.
As for being aggressive, that's what I do, I don't wait til an hour left in the game to make my thoughts known. You made a post that I thought was weird, so I called you out on it. It forces conversation and gets discussion going.
As for why I didn't vote or pressure yomi, because I didn't feel he needed it. I knew what he was doing, and I felt he was coming from a town's perspective, if I had felt otherwise I would have pressured him.
@Yomi, again, it is second nature for me to right Villagers/Wolves, I have to consciously think town/mafia.
It was an impulse post. When I saw that yomi voted for him, it triggered me. I played with yomi in a previous game, and I had to endure the aftermath of an overly aggressive play he made (more on this later). My reason was obviously unsubstantiated, + Show Spoiler +
I’ve alluded to before, and I’d like to state explicitly that I think no-lynch is a generally bad policy, with little exception. Other people have (whysomuch, lazermonkey) have made some points about this. It is very unlikely that by the deadline that town won’t have high-scum read targets to vote for. Sure, a mis-lynch would suck, but it’s not like we’re voting randomly. If there really aren’t clear scum choices, than we should no-lynch. This leads me to the next point, which is why I really think no-lynch is important.
More discusion = more info = better for town. If the town’s general consensus flirts too much with no-lynch, then it will encourage lurking.
On April 27 2012 22:48 The_Zen_Man wrote: If we vote for a nolynch there will still be people, like yourself, that would oppose that and vote for a person instead. We can use that information to decide everyone standings. The time before deadline will also give us information, as we can observe how people act then.
The quality / quantity of information can vary drastically with a town that has a lot of votes and cases and from a town that has some votes, a few cases, and some no-lynches. It goes beyond who voted for who, it’s who voted for who and why they did so. People have to build cases to vote for people, and cases = more discussion.
People have mentioned meta-game elements, specifically yomi’s quick-post. Specifically, Golden + Show Spoiler +
On April 27 2012 13:33 O.Golden_ne wrote: I've seen yomi's play before and i understand he likes to be aggressive, and i like his aggression.. i just hope it isn't misplaced aggression and i want him to explain to me why he has picked WhySoMuch other than for his pro-first-day-lynch attitude and his contrary views on the percentages of lynching. i think you have to pick your battles and maybe lynching people with opposing views might not be the key, opposing views lead to discussion, which leads to correct eviction.
On April 27 2012 16:27 O.Golden_ne wrote: Perhaps the small shred of logic yomi has shown in his lurking argument makes him less suspicious than Nreekay?
On April 27 2012 23:58 Pure-SC2 wrote: @AcesAnoka - Yomi has a bit of a reputation from his last 2 newbie games and he tends to play the same way regardless of if he is scum or town. He's essentially trying to stir up discussion by posting "off the wall" (yomi feel free to correct me here if you'd explain it differently). Last game it got him lynched day 1 and he was town, so while it's good to pressure him like you are, bare in mind that this is essentially how he plays.
Both Golden and Pure SC2 cite yomi’s previous game, in which he played blantantly aggressively and voted early off of little (no) evidence. I know this, because I was in the same game yomi was in. His play severely impacted that game, and it was still on my mind in the beginning of this game. What I find interesting however, is that both Golden and PureSC2 are making the beginnings of yomi’s town case FOR him, with the previous game serving as “meta-game evidence”. This is suspicious to me. They are beginning yomi’s defense case for him, why not let him make it? Further, if yomi decided to use this “meta-game evidence to make a case for himself eventually, I would be highly suspicious of yomi, because it could be a perfect mafia play. If other “townies” began the defense for yomi, it’d go down a lot better. However, I can’t make a claim against yomi because he really hasn’t said much. So, ##FOS: Golden, PureSC2.
Your filter consists of 1)lynch vs no lynch opinions, 2) defensive questioning, 3) a brief overview summary opinions on people. This shows me that although you been posting, you lack substance in your post. Your opinions on people are rather general, or they are merely in dull agreement with others. ##FOS
@lurkers; post!!!!! get into town discussion @everyone else; keep posting!! there has been lots of discussion going on, and lots of things analyzing needs to be done. don't be afraid to keep it coming. @yomi; waiting on some concrete analysis ##FOS Golden, Pure SC2, thezenman for now, ## unvote
Hey Splinter, I'm sorry about your stomach flu, but I have to say About 2 weeks ago I had some Food Borne Illness, and I was on my computer a lot for quite a while simply because I could get to my bathroom fairly quickly. Mafia seems pretty optimal, because going to the head gives you time to think and you don't have any constrictions (e.g. its hard to play SC because you might have to pause for God knows how long).
Reading through the thread more closely this time.
@AcesAnoka - His posts are just scummier and scummier. Something to add on the case against him are the last posts before he goes to bed. He first is very suspicious about yomi, but when both Golden and Splinter posts some good cases against him he quickly responds with:
On April 28 2012 02:24 AcesAnoka wrote: ##unvote
I haven't thought of it the way you just posted, Yomi.
I need nreekay to explain himself though.
I understand that he needs to go to bed but basically what he does is fleeing from all the allegations by saying '' this case was bad, hope u forget about it till tomorrow''.
@The_Zen_Man Must say that he is acting way to defensive atm. At least if he is in fact a towine. Up untill just an hour ago all he had posted was defensive posts in response to WhySoMuch. He then makes a summary posts which just made me even more puzzled. His conclusions just seem to be way off. The one I was most suprised about was:
On April 28 2012 03:05 The_Zen_Man wrote: AcesAnoka: You seem suspicous to me. You're first comment was rather strange, but i know you shoulnd't judge someone too much based on what they first wrote. I think it was a good thing you put that pressure vote on yomi, after all it did give a response from him.
It's almost like you didn't read anything but the very first pages. Alot of people, me including, have been thinking that AcecAnoka's behavior was more then just strange. This is NOT only due to his first post but mostly due to the yomi-debate. And I don't understand what you mean with I think it was a good thing you put that pressure vote on yomi, after all it did give a response from him.. The only thing yomi said was what everyone was thinking: that he was just trying to start a discussion.
Now this is alot WIFOM. But it IS possible that AcesAnoka were trying to go for a cheap bandwagon on yomi and when he realized that it all failed utterly he was quick to abandon the ship. His scumbro The_Zen_Man tries to to cover his teammate by giving him a relativelynice review in his summary post.
Imo The_Zen_Man seems like a confused townie tho and not lynch worthy at all atm. AcecAnoka on the other hand seems quite a bit suspicious to me still.
nreekay324: As to my lack of contributing, it is mainly beacuse i've had to defend myself so much. That is why i posted my last post, so i could contribute a little. Also, i don't think you can complain on other peoples lack of contribution, as your only contributing post is the one above.
Now, concerning your vote, i think the rest of the players would like to have a better explanation than the one you just gave. Bandwagoning on someone seems very suspicious on me, and it seems like scum-play. And as soon as people start finding you suspicious, like yomi, and votes for you, instead of explaining yourself properly you start a case against them. You seem to prefer when someone else is getting voted for no reason at all, but when you are voted for with a good reason you start a case against them.
Both Golden and Pure SC2 cite yomi’s previous game, in which he played blantantly aggressively and voted early off of little (no) evidence. I know this, because I was in the same game yomi was in. His play severely impacted that game, and it was still on my mind in the beginning of this game. What I find interesting however, is that both Golden and PureSC2 are making the beginnings of yomi’s town case FOR him, with the previous game serving as “meta-game evidence”. This is suspicious to me. They are beginning yomi’s defense case for him, why not let him make it? Further, if yomi decided to use this “meta-game evidence to make a case for himself eventually, I would be highly suspicious of yomi, because it could be a perfect mafia play. If other “townies” began the defense for yomi, it’d go down a lot better. However, I can’t make a claim against yomi because he really hasn’t said much. So, ##FOS: Golden, PureSC2.
um this is the worst thing ive ever read
if yomi decided to use this “meta-game evidence to make a case for himself eventually, I would be highly suspicious of yomi, because it could be a perfect mafia play.
are you saying my vote on whysomuch made you suspicious that I was mafia? and if not, what ARE you saying?
If other “townies” began the defense for yomi, it’d go down a lot better.
@Lazermonkey In that post a merely stated some of my opinions on some players.I posted several other similliar opinions on some other players. And concerning how i like how AcesAnoka put a pressure vote on yomi is because i liked it. We were all thinking why yomi voted, but we needed a statement from him. Also, the vote would tell us more why nreekay324 voted for whysomuch. And if AcesAnoka would want to go for a bandwagon on someone, why not whysomuch, who already had 2 votes on him? That seems to me like a town behavior. Also, if i was his "scumbro", wouldnt i support his voting on yomi before? Not vote with him or something, just some few posts about it. And yet i haven't done that.
The reason for my defensive stance is beacuse i've had to explain some suspicions on me, not really any more than that. If you read my filter, you would know that. It seems like you are trying to find suspicious behavior on me, and you are not afraid on going far in your accusations. You did manage to inflate a few comments on AcesAnoka to me being his "scumbro" .Is it because on of your scum-buddies got some heat and you are trying to direct eveyones attention elsewhere? nreekay324 for example has been getting some heat lately.
Atm im not sure about you, you haven't posted enough for me to be sure of you.
Ummmmmmmmm, Right now Veriat is looking very supsicious. He has only 5 total posts (here is a link right here to his posts)
First off, he has one of the fewest post-counts. Secondly, He's bandwaggoning quite a bit. He goes from his post from the start saying
As Pure-SC2 said, i share his opinion on the "no lynch" vote since this is a game full of newbies like myself, and there isn't all that information up in the air the first day, which we can use to base good lynches on.
His next post
You make a good point Golden, lynching luckers would be a good alternative. We might also want to keep an eye out for people who make contentless posts, and as you said act "scummy"
and then his third post
I noticed the same yomi, they are currently lurking. And back to the "lynch, no lynch" topic, yomi you make a good point is your previous 2 post. we can't just lynch for the sake of lynching, it needs to benefit the town. And just lynching a townie and not learning anything is just a waste. so personally i'd say lynch if suspicion be, and if not? i see no point in random lynching.
Finally, he has his own opinion
I have to disagree with WhysoMuch
Lol no it wouldn't make me happy, but the information we gain from it outweighs the negative.
We don't get information from No Lynch because no one dies. The only way we get information is if there is a competing wagon against it, and in that case, that information isn't useful until that said competing wagon dies.
Even if nobody is lynched day1, we still gain a ton of imformation through our discussion. Even as we are discussing now, we are starting to get a picture on peoples view points, and where they stand. Sure we get more information when lynching, because we can start to analyse those who were for and those who were againts the lynch. But saying that no information is gained if we don't lynch is just false. Because we still get to anylase peoples behaviour.
Unfortunately, a blanket anti-lynch platform seems very scummy to me. It gains the town nothing to wait and see who the mafia kills given how much time we have been given before the first day ends. If there were absolutely no way to guess who was scum, I'd agree that a no lynch is better than a totally random lynch. However, the first day seems a bit long so that we can have a very good discussion before our decision.
Yes, I have essentially flipped entirely from my earlier stance on lynching. I was however, under the impression that we were almost half-way to the first decision point when I first posted. I will do my best act on better information.
On April 28 2012 05:41 The_Zen_Man wrote: @Lazermonkey In that post a merely stated some of my opinions on some players.I posted several other similliar opinions on some other players. And concerning how i like how AcesAnoka put a pressure vote on yomi is because i liked it. We were all thinking why yomi voted, but we needed a statement from him. Also, the vote would tell us more why nreekay324 voted for whysomuch. + Show Spoiler +
On April 28 2012 05:41 The_Zen_Man wrote: @Lazermonkey In that post a merely stated some of my opinions on some players.I posted several other similliar opinions on some other players. And concerning how i like how AcesAnoka put a pressure vote on yomi is because i liked it. We were all thinking why yomi voted, but we needed a statement from him. Also, the vote would tell us more why nreekay324 voted for whysomuch. And if AcesAnoka would want to go for a bandwagon on someone, why not whysomuch, who already had 2 votes on him? That seems to me like a town behavior. Also, if i was his "scumbro", wouldnt i support his voting on yomi before? Not vote with him or something, just some few posts about it. And yet i haven't done that.
The reason for my defensive stance is beacuse i've had to explain some suspicions on me, not really any more than that. If you read my filter, you would know that. It seems like you are trying to find suspicious behavior on me, and you are not afraid on going far in your accusations. You did manage to inflate a few comments on AcesAnoka to me being his "scumbro" .Is it because on of your scum-buddies got some heat and you are trying to direct eveyones attention elsewhere? nreekay324 for example has been getting some heat lately.
Atm im not sure about you, you haven't posted enough for me to be sure of you.
That seems to me like a town behavior. Also, if i was his "scumbro", wouldnt i support his voting on yomi before? Not vote with him or something, just some few posts about it. And yet i haven't done that.
The reason for my defensive stance is beacuse i've had to explain some suspicions on me, not really any more than that. If you read my filter, you would know that. It seems like you are trying to find suspicious behavior on me, and you are not afraid on going far in your accusations. You did manage to inflate a few comments on AcesAnoka to me being his "scumbro" .Is it because on of your scum-buddies got some heat and you are trying to direct eveyones attention elsewhere? nreekay324 for example has been getting some heat lately.
Atm im not sure about you, you haven't posted enough for me to be sure of you.
I feel you are just not reading/being stupid once again here. Alot of things in this post are plain wrong.
And if AcesAnoka would want to go for a bandwagon on someone, why not whysomuch, who already had 2 votes on him?
Both of the votes on AcesAnoka(or at least Yomi's, can't say too much about nreekay324 yet) were not serious. There was never a possibilty of bandwagoning here.
Also, if i was his "scumbro", wouldnt i support his voting on yomi before? Not vote with him or something, just some few posts about it. And yet i haven't done that.
No you wouldn't. Having two people out of a sudden sharing their opinions on a weak case would make you look scummy as hell. It's a common way to play scum, you split your opinions. So this doesn't prove your innocence.
You did manage to inflate a few comments on AcesAnoka to me being his "scumbro" .Is it because on of your scum-buddies got some heat and you are trying to direct eveyones attention elsewhere? nreekay324 for example has been getting some heat lately.
I even said in my post that my case on you and AcesAnoka being scumbros were a weak one. But the fact that you are still seem to think highly of Acec just makes me wonder more.
Once again you post a somewhat confused post. It's like you aren't reading the posts well enough because you seem to miss alot of what is happening. You are still being overly defensive imo, which is not standard town play. And you always attack the one who are suspicious of you. First WhySoMuch, then nreekay324 and last me. Have it actually struck you that we might not be suspicious of you because we are scum but rather that we actually think your play is strange?
Overall I still think your just town. I don't think your play looks like town, but it doesn't look like scum either.
Going to bed now, will be much more active tommorow!
@Lazermonkey It seems that you think that me and AcedAnoka are scumbuddies simply because i stated that i liked his pressure vote on yomi. That is a very weak case. Also, i find it very strange that you would post something even though you knew it was something weak. You stated in your post that it's really scummy to make a case that is weak, but you make one yourself. This is puzzling to me, you contradict yourself.
You say that the votes on whysomuch was not serious and that there wasn't a possibility of a bandwagoning, but you also say that you don't know about nreekay324 yet? That means there was a possibilty of it, as we are still unsure of nreekay324 position.
In your post you say that mine was confusing, yet you post one that is contraticting and strange in response?
The reason i seem defensive is because i have to explain myself whenever someone like you raises strong suspicions against me.
So we're drawing to the end of day one. There's been much debate so far, and unfortunately there are still several people who's post count and content is fairly light. I wish i had more to go by today but as i am pro-D1-lynch i feel we can still make progress on what we've got.
It's a tough call to make, whether to kill someone on the first day or not. So far everyone has had their own take on the subject and really its some of the only information with which to substantiate cases aside from lurking and early game voting. The chances of hitting a townie is a lot higher than hitting a mafia, and in another 24 hours another one of us will be dead from the mafia. So the medic should keep and eye out for those people posting the most comprehensive arguments, as this could be a target for the mafia in the early stages of the game.
as an aside, have you noticed the amusing trait of lurkers to say things like "LURKERS POST MORE!! NEED MORE CONTENT!!"
In regards to my upcoming vote my read has changed after a good sleep and re-read of events.
1. AcesAnoka 2. Nreekay324 3. Veriat
Reasoning: 1. AcesAnoka Your whole play is erratic.
You start by strangely confirming that we shouldn't lynch first day and you post that you don't want anyone to rush voting. I like the stance of not rushing voting, however if you're adding nothing to the conversation then you are just stalling everything. Amazingly you're 3rd post includes a vote. How does this logic follow?! THEN, if you take into account the person you are voting for is yomi. Yomi's playstyle is one that you have openly criticised, however it is not too unlike your own.. just with less holes in it. Next, under the pressure i put on you and a very small explanation from yomi your vote folds.
My read on you AcesAnoka is that your play reeks of either a hidden agenda (perhaps defending another scum: read Nreekay) or defensive play; Town doesn't need to be defensive.
2. Nreekay324. everything i have said previously about you i feel still stands. Your explanation post was confusing with such gems as:
I’ve alluded to before, and I’d like to state explicitly that I think no-lynch is a generally bad policy, with little exception. Other people have (whysomuch, lazermonkey) have made some points about this. It is very unlikely that by the deadline that town won’t have high-scum read targets to vote for. Sure, a mis-lynch would suck, but it’s not like we’re voting randomly. If there really aren’t clear scum choices, than we should no-lynch. This leads me to the next point, which is why I really think no-lynch is important.
i'm really not sure where you stand at all on lynching now and it feel to me that once you get a little heat you've changed your opinion to a more neutral one. That being said, you've pointed your FOS at me and PureSC2 in the same post. Making me feel you're getting emotional over being targeted as you haven't particularly substantiated any claims against either of us.
My read on you Nreekay, is you are an emotional impulsive player. You post little, and when you do post your opinions sway in the wind of what benefits you solely as a player than for town. You were effectively a lurker for a lot of the game, and this gives me little hope for you in terms of being an asset to town when the voting gets vicious.
3. Veriat Your lurking has earnt you Jailbreakers 3rd place. While his posts may have flaws, your posts have more.
Both these players seem very afraid to be lynched, and squirm under scrutiny. If AcesAnoka flips town i'll have to do a serious re-evaluate of everything.
when i read the past few pages of this thread, most of you seem so suspicious. I dont want to post a Fos untill i can get my logic straightened out. Yes, I realize that my posts have flaws, but I will stand by my decision untill i am fully convinced to change my vote. I don't want to sit in the neutral zone because I feel that it is to passive. What Golden has said in the post above me, "Both these players seem very afraid to be lynched, and squirm under scrutiny." Even though it is for two different players, getting accused causes panic and action. I feel like it would be easier to identify between scum and town.
Im going to stand by my vote of yomi. No apologies for my shallow posts.
On April 28 2012 04:12 nreekay324 wrote: if yomi decided to use this “meta-game evidence to make a case for himself eventually, I would be highly suspicious of yomi, because it could be a perfect mafia play.
are you saying my vote on whysomuch made you suspicious that I was mafia? and if not, what ARE you saying?
If other “townies” began the defense for yomi, it’d go down a lot better.
you mean if they didn't start it? im confused
When I posted last night, I was thinking that Golden&PureSC2 were suspicious; They were brushing off suspicion towards you by acknowledging that this was your “playstyle “. But the reason I didn’t flat out say I was suspicious of you, yomi, was because I was waiting on your analysis/reads. Last game, you laid out some good stuff I would have went off of more (if i didn’t get shot). But I’m still waiting for that this game. Maybe you’re holding off until there’s more info, but the pace of this game is so much faster that there’s lots of stuff to go through already. So my point is, I think part of me had acknowledged your aggressive play of random voting, and had already seen you innocent. But I’ve been waiting for you to make a case, or add some analysis, or something.I realize now that my suspicion on golden&puresc2 are highly based on my suspicion of you, yomi. Its definitely possible they’re townies afraid of mis-lynching. (Golden stated he’s for d1 lynch, puresc2 finds no-lynch circumstantially acceptable) It seems puresc2, inparticular, is pretty against mis-lynches. If you don’t add anything, then you have the easiest job right now as mafia, because you’re pretty much getting a free pass atm.
##FOS yomi /remove suspicion from golden and puresc2 until I get a better read on yomi
@thezenman I think what I said earlier still stands. But I think also, you have to realize that if you’re town, you should be playing to contribute to the discussion through analysis, interpretation, and taking stances based on these. First, to this ;
On April 28 2012 05:13 The_Zen_Man wrote: Now, concerning your vote, i think the rest of the players would like to have a better explanation than the one you just gave. Bandwagoning on someone seems very suspicious on me, and it seems like scum-play. And as soon as people start finding you suspicious, like yomi, and votes for you, instead of explaining yourself properly you start a case against them. You seem to prefer when someone else is getting voted for no reason at all, but when you are voted for with a good reason you start a case against them.
I would agree with you if you had come out and said my reasoning for voting for whysomuch was shitty. But it was early on, I was impulsive, and that’s all I can really say about it. If you think that I deserve a vote for this, there’s that. But I didn’t make case against them just because they made one against me. There were plenty of people who had/have their suspicions against me. But I made a case against them because I thought I thought I thought I saw a connection between them. (As above, it was related to yomi). I absolutely do not think that people should get voted for no reason, if this were near the deadline it would have been ridiculous. When you say this;
On April 28 2012 05:13 The_Zen_Man wrote: nreekay324: As to my lack of contributing, it is mainly beacuse i've had to defend myself so much. That is why i posted my last post, so i could contribute a little. Also, i don't think you can complain on other peoples lack of contribution, as your only contributing post is the one above.
it just sounds like; hey, i’ve got to defend myself. you’re not contributing either, why don’t you contribute? You need to contribute more than I do. I want to make the point that your posts should have more concrete analysis. As you mentioned earlier, when you throw suspicion back to people who are pointing their fingers at you, you only look more suspicious. Your post of opinions on people was mainly just like/dislike of those people. I get that you’re being pressured, but take the time to develop more analysis that contributes to overall town discussion. If you’re only defending yourself the whole time, it adds very little.
@golden- When I said;"If there really aren’t clear scum choices, than we should no-lynch. This leads me to the next point, which is why I really think no-lynch is important." I didn't catch it before, it should end with "I really thing d1 lynch is important." I tried to segway into saying that no-lynch policies lead to less town discussion, and encourage people to lurk. And yes, I do believe people are lurking harder than me, because content-ful discussion and analysis is more important as we draw to the end of the day. Lacking content has rough equivalents to lurking. So, @LURKERS + PEOPLE, PLEASE PUT MORE CONTENT IN UR POSTZ
I'm sorry, but veriat isn't helping the town at all, whether he's mafia or he's just dropped off the face of the earth. Also I'd like to say that its starting to become time for everyone to vote. We are running kind of low on time and we need a full majority to lynch( Right now, 7 people). I recently posted a full analysis of why veriat is suspicious, and its been a whole day since his (or her) last post. This is not the cooperation that the crew of this ship needs to stay alive through this ordeal. In short, we have just over 12 hours to get 7/12 of us to vote for one person, or we will go without any lynch. So for right now ##vote: Veriat
But if in the time between now and when I wake up there is another non-helpful/very suspicious player who is close to gaining a majority I shall change my vote accordingly. Also, a lot of people have been fairly inactive. We need everyone's input. If only one member of our crew was posting, the mafia would win easily. We need the lunkers to unburrow.
On April 28 2012 16:51 O.Golden_ne wrote: can we get a vote count?
I believe Artanis said he'd be doing that whenever possible, and he's using MST, so he's probably might be asleep. If so, it may be several hours before we get an official count. Other than that, if you could do a quick, informal count that'd be great. I really need to go to bed though. G'night all. + Show Spoiler [What everyone should do] +
Ok i know i have the lowest post count, but be mindfull that this is my first forum mafia game. And the reasoning behind my "only agreeing and disagreeing" posts, is because many of my thoughts have already been posted, so posting it again would just be repition, which most of the posts in the earlier pages pretty much were. And each time i go to check on the game, it has expand with a few pages, so there's been a lot of information to go through. So (watch out another agreement!) i would agree that i indeed do look very scummy atm.
But this was just an explanation on my behavior, i'll have my analysis posted soonish.
The_Zen_Man You're stance on the "lynch no lynch" discussion has left me a little puzzled, and your overall playstyle seem fishy to me, so you're getting my vote.
nreekay324 All your posts just seem off and scummy. Many of them seem rushed or flawed, and you basically just jumped the bandwagon with your early vote on Why_So_Much. On a side note i did find Why_So_Much's playstyle kind of off, but i don't think he's scum, because then why would you vote for him?
Jailbreaker You've my number 3 due to consistent flaws in your previous posts.
I'm getting an off read on WhySoMuch, I don't really understand it so just going to post my thoughts in case someone else can make something out of it.
So we're playing a newbie game here, for people who've played 3 or less games. yet here he is so ingrained in his Wolves/Villages thing that he can't even proof read his posts to change it to reflect the fact we're playing Mafia here, on the TL mafia forums, in which everyone else is referencing mafia/scum and townies? How many games do you have to have played to get it that ingrained in your head? And after its been mentioned by a few people, why wouldn't he make any effort to do something about it?
Yet his posts seem well thought out and carefully worded.
He goes on and asks the most basic fundamental questions that can be answered by using the tiniest bit of logical thought (how to quote posts and view more posts on a page), which doesn't line up with the fact that his posts seem to be well thought out and logical.
I don't trust him. It's like he's playing this naive, simpleton role here so that he won't come under suspicion.
@Veriat - You haven't provided any substance to your scum reads. There is nothing original there and no explanation or analysis behind your reads.
You're voting for The_Zen_Man because you're puzzled by the "lynch no lynch" discussion, and you find his overal playstyle fishy. Well, what about his playstyle do you find fishy? Quote what it is that stands out for you.
At the moment, you've just raised yourself a few notches higher on the scumdar.
Yes, but on the other hand, that might be the point. Veriat might have written that so that people would stop suspecting him. But this is all theories. He was lurking for quite a while, and when people start suspecting him he suddenly shows up with some accusations. I find that very suspicious. For these reason, im going to vote for him.
##vote: Veriat
Also Veriat, as Pure-SC2 said, please tell me what about me is "fishy".
Whysomuch, could you give me a explanation to your vote?
It just seems strange to me that comes back from a lurking campaign and votes for me directly with the explanation "your overall playstyle seem fishy to me". And no Pure-SC2 , several other players have raised concerns about Veriat, it wasn't just that we wanted him to post more.
Your case against him is terrible. His case against you is terrible. Congrats on muddying the waters.
If you genuinely think he is suspicious, give your vote some substance by explaining exactly why you are convinced he is scum and should be lynched tonight. "several other players have raised concerns" is just a useless bandwagony reason and doesn't cut it for me.
He needs to do the same thing with his case against you. Just because he hasn't doesn't mean you can get away with doing the same thing to him.
On April 26 2012 22:55 Veriat wrote: Hello Everybody!
I love the theme and i'm very excited to get this show on the road! Like many here this is my first game so i'm looking forward to a good time with you fine lads (and lasses)
As Pure-SC2 said, i share his opinion on the "no lynch" vote since this is a game full of newbies like myself, and there isn't all that information up in the air the first day, which we can use to base good lynches on.
With that said, Game on and let's get the discussion going!
Veriat posted this about 5 minutes after my post, and it was also very similliar to mine. This seemed like he was bandwagoning on this idea, maybe choosing the idea which seemed at time like many people supported?
On April 26 2012 23:55 Veriat wrote: You make a good point Golden, lynching luckers would be a good alternative. We might also want to keep an eye out for people who make contentless posts, and as you said act "scummy"
Not long after that, when O.Golden_ne voiced his opinions on the matter, he changed his opinion rather quick, maybe not wanting to take a real stand in the matter, as this would put him in the spotlight.
On April 27 2012 03:10 Veriat wrote: I noticed the same yomi, they are currently lurking. And back to the "lynch, no lynch" topic, yomi you make a good point is your previous 2 post. we can't just lynch for the sake of lynching, it needs to benefit the town. And just lynching a townie and not learning anything is just a waste. so personally i'd say lynch if suspicion be, and if not? i see no point in random lynching.
His desire to be neutral is developed, as he change his opinion again. First he was for lynching lurkers, but now he only wants to lynch those who seem suspicious.
On April 28 2012 18:03 Veriat wrote: Ok i know i have the lowest post count, but be mindfull that this is my first forum mafia game. And the reasoning behind my "only agreeing and disagreeing" posts, is because many of my thoughts have already been posted, so posting it again would just be repition, which most of the posts in the earlier pages pretty much were. And each time i go to check on the game, it has expand with a few pages, so there's been a lot of information to go through. So (watch out another agreement!) i would agree that i indeed do look very scummy atm.
But this was just an explanation on my behavior, i'll have my analysis posted soonish.
In this post he states his reason for his "agreeing and disagreeing" posts, with the explanation that all of the ideas had already been posted. Surely, he must have something to add, he could atleast voice his opinions on some other players.
On April 28 2012 18:26 Veriat wrote: Ok here are my thoughts on who are the scum:
The_Zen_Man nreekay324 Jailbreaker
The_Zen_Man You're stance on the "lynch no lynch" discussion has left me a little puzzled, and your overall playstyle seem fishy to me, so you're getting my vote.
nreekay324 All your posts just seem off and scummy. Many of them seem rushed or flawed, and you basically just jumped the bandwagon with your early vote on Why_So_Much. On a side note i did find Why_So_Much's playstyle kind of off, but i don't think he's scum, because then why would you vote for him?
Jailbreaker You've my number 3 due to consistent flaws in your previous posts.
This post, and his vote is still puzzling to me. "Your overall playstyle seem fishy to me" is not a good explanation, and if you want to take a opinion you should give a good reason. Your vote on me was almost as puzzling as whysomuch, who haven't answered to why he voted for me. If you want to prove that you are townie you should vote with a good argument. Also your other "candidates" do not have any better explanations.
@WhySoMuch: I said this before, but i will say it again, please explain your vote.
@The_Zen_Man - wow, I don't know what to say anymore. You are still not reading my posts before answering them. And your conclusions are off. Like really off.
On April 28 2012 06:54 The_Zen_Man wrote: @Lazermonkey It seems that you think that me and AcedAnoka are scumbuddies simply because i stated that i liked his pressure vote on yomi. That is a very weak case. Also, i find it very strange that you would post something even though you knew it was something weak. You stated in your post that it's really scummy to make a case that is weak, but you make one yourself. This is puzzling to me, you contradict yourself.
You say that the votes on whysomuch was not serious and that there wasn't a possibility of a bandwagoning, but you also say that you don't know about nreekay324 yet? That means there was a possibilty of it, as we are still unsure of nreekay324 position.
In your post you say that mine was confusing, yet you post one that is contraticting and strange in response?
The reason i seem defensive is because i have to explain myself whenever someone like you raises strong suspicions against me.
@Lazermonkey It seems that you think that me and AcedAnoka are scumbuddies simply because i stated that i liked his pressure vote on yomi. That is a very weak case.
No shit sherlock. I even said that in my post.
Also, i find it very strange that you would post something even though you knew it was something weak.
Why wouldn't I post it? It's not like I'm tunneling you hardcore atm...
You stated in your post that it's really scummy to make a case that is weak, but you make one yourself. This is puzzling to me, you contradict yourself.
I never said this. Please reread my post. I said if whysomuch posted a weak case on yomi and you would agree with it that would make YOU look scummy.
You say that the votes on whysomuch was not serious and that there wasn't a possibility of a bandwagoning, but you also say that you don't know about nreekay324 yet? That means there was a possibilty of it, as we are still unsure of nreekay324 position.
So we need 7 people to get someone lynched. I was 99,9% sure yomi was just trolling which left us with 1 vote whysomuch with almost 48h to deadline. So no, he was never really in true danger.
The reason i seem defensive is because i have to explain myself whenever someone like you raises strong suspicions against me.
You are doing this wrong. Noone was really too suspicious of you untill the point where you posted like 5 defensive posts in just a couple of hours. And you still havn't posted any cases of your own. The only post you have that isn't defensive or arguing about no-lynches is you summary post. But that post was simply a summary. You didn't really bring anything new to the table and some of your reads were off.
This will by my last response to you for a while. I'm not getting anywhere here I feel. You are not reading what I post or at least not reading carefully enough. I still think you are town. Your play is strange, because you aren't helping town alot atm, but I feel you also play very wierd if you would be scum. Your motives doesn't seem to fit a scum player.
@ The_Zen_Man the things about you i find fishy is your opening post:
On April 26 2012 22:51 The_Zen_Man wrote: Hey guys!
This is my first game of maifa, but i have been following other games a bit. I also think that the "no lynch" option could prove useful early in the game to avoid misslynch. The other game i was following misslynched on the first day simply because they didn't have enough information.
And after lurker for some time, you posts this
On April 27 2012 19:16 The_Zen_Man wrote: First, i would like to say that the reason for the time it took for this respond is beacause school/sleep. Im currently still in school, but i found time to post this.
WhySoMuch: I understand that my first post would seem suspicous, but i think u misunderstood me. I simply don't want a lynch just for the sake of lynch. If we have information, or if we are sure we would gain some information by lynching then we should do it. But if we just lynch someone because we don't have anyone else, that would probably result in a townie dead. Early in the game that kind of information might not be available, that is why i said nolynch could be useful early. Also, i understand that u voted for me to pressure me to respond, but if you still choose to keep voting on me you should give me a better explination.
I can't post for a few hours, but when i get home i will post some more including my thouhts on some other people.
And from that point on you're on the defensive, not added to the discussion but simply defending your self in multiple posts. To me this just looks scummy, you open being pro "no lynch" because you're scared it might hit you our one of your fellow scum. And then you're playing defensive trying devirt the attention somewhere else, like just now that i vote for you, you panic vote me back, and try to divert the attention to me, now that i've called you out.
And on a side note i know i shared your opinion on the whole D1 lynch discussion, but i my previous posts i note that from reading some of the arguments on the topic, and this being my first forum mafia, i change my mind slightly on the subject.
And i apologize if my first post on why i found you scummy lacked content, upon prof reading it (after posting it ofc /facepalm) i do see SC2's point on it looking kinda scummy.
Haven't voted (2): Lazermonkey, Pure-SC2 A majority of at least 7 players is required to lynch. If one is not reached, no one will be lynched. Everyone is required to vote.
@Veriat: The reason i put a defensive post is beacuse it was actually requested of me.
On April 27 2012 13:33 O.Golden_ne wrote:[/B
@the_zen_man - please rebut to why_so_much not with a vote but with a clear explanation of your innocence and your views on the people voting for whysomuch.
Golden
Also, concerning my nolynch view, i have answered this before, but i can do it again. We can still gain information besides lynching, and i simply didn't want to have a mislynch, which is common early in the game. Also, mafia tend to be for lynch, as they can easily sneak by without being noticed.
Now, i want to adress the matter of my vote. I didn't panic, i really saw that move as scummy. You were lurking for quite a while and then suddenly you come back and vote for me without much of an explanation? That was a strange move.
Something i should have included in my post before is the Veriat and WhySoMuch connection. Whysomuch was really aggressive towards me after i had olnly posted once, but directly below me was a very similliar post that he barely mentioned.
[/QUOTE]
I find this post very wolfy, more so than Varient or however you spell his name who said the same thing essentially, because you aren't thinking deeper. [/QUOTE]
Is my first post supposed to be a deep analytical post? Explain to me also what you mean by "deeper", because i don't see the "deepness of Veriat's first post(below)
[B]On April 26 2012 22:55 Veriat wrote: Hello Everybody!
I love the theme and i'm very excited to get this show on the road! Like many here this is my first game so i'm looking forward to a good time with you fine lads (and lasses)
As Pure-SC2 said, i share his opinion on the "no lynch" vote since this is a game full of newbies like myself, and there isn't all that information up in the air the first day, which we can use to base good lynches on.
With that said, Game on and let's get the discussion going!
Then, after Whysomuch says that he will lay off on me, he votes on me without any explanation, and he has not posted since that. Also, not long after Whysomuch vote without any explanation, veriat votes for me with not much of an explanation either. I am still keeping my vote on you.
Noone is posting atm really. AcecAnoka havn't been posting in about a day, which could very well be due to IRL stuffs. But he is still my prime suspect.
##Vote: AcecAnoka
This vote may very well change tho, depending on the events in the evening!
We only have about 6 hours until the vote is set in stone, and we really need to start working together. Assuming the mafia don't vote for one of their own, we need 7 of the 9 townies to vote for one person. There are currently 2 players with 3 votes each, and I'd like to suggest that anyone who hasn't voted for these players either explicitly confirm that they do not want a lynch today by voting for no lynch, OR change their votes to one of the players with 3, OR write a damn persuasive article on why at least 7 of us should vote for the person you have in mind.
I am currently favoring a lynch of Veriat, because he didn't post for a good 24 hours, his posts before were pretty contentless, and since his drought he's been very defensive. I will however unvote and vote for Aces if that will help gain a majority. Either way, its decision time.
I'd just like to add that we don't need 7/9 townies if we vote to lynch a townie. There should be 2 people, in addition to the person we vote for, that simply will not agree to vote for one of their own. Hopefully our analysis has been good enough that at least some of the people who have 2 or 3 votes are scum. That being said, our strategy should be to have everyone post the people they'd be willing to vote for. This will force the mafia to either risk voting for their own or they will reveal themselves (the circle of people who won't vote for each other will be the mafia). Personally, I'll vote for anyone who is close to a majority, or one of the triangle who won't vote for each other. Come on guys, we are running out of time and we need to start working together to make a lynch. Its crunch time guys, and we need teamwork to beat the mafia.
On April 28 2012 18:29 Pure-SC2 wrote: I'm getting an off read on WhySoMuch, I don't really understand it so just going to post my thoughts in case someone else can make something out of it.
So we're playing a newbie game here, for people who've played 3 or less games. yet here he is so ingrained in his Wolves/Villages thing that he can't even proof read his posts to change it to reflect the fact we're playing Mafia here, on the TL mafia forums, in which everyone else is referencing mafia/scum and townies? How many games do you have to have played to get it that ingrained in your head? And after its been mentioned by a few people, why wouldn't he make any effort to do something about it?
Yet his posts seem well thought out and carefully worded.
He goes on and asks the most basic fundamental questions that can be answered by using the tiniest bit of logical thought (how to quote posts and view more posts on a page), which doesn't line up with the fact that his posts seem to be well thought out and logical.
I don't trust him. It's like he's playing this naive, simpleton role here so that he won't come under suspicion.
It's the same game, Y'all call it Mafia, We call it Werewolf. It's the same principal and I'm really confused why people are so caught up on it. This is newb game for people that have played 3 or less games ON THIS SITE. That is why I signed up for it, to get a feel for THIS SITE. So many things are different, such as requiring a Majority to lynch someone, that I think it was best to play a game like this before trying out the non-newb games. I have played over 100 games on the other forum using wolve/villager lingo, so to answer your question about 100 games to get it ingrained.
I am making an effort, every time you see the word Mafia or Town most likely I had to go back and erase wolf/villager. However sometimes I forget.
I didn't ask how to quote posts, I asked how to quote multiple posts, because on the other site, I can click a button and it will multi-quote for me. THis forum did not have it, and I was wondering what people usually do instead. As for the "All" button I probably should have figured that out, but again, on the other forum there is an option to change posts per page from 25 to 100.
On April 28 2012 18:52 The_Zen_Man wrote: Yes, but on the other hand, that might be the point. Veriat might have written that so that people would stop suspecting him. But this is all theories. He was lurking for quite a while, and when people start suspecting him he suddenly shows up with some accusations. I find that very suspicious. For these reason, im going to vote for him.
##vote: Veriat
Also Veriat, as Pure-SC2 said, please tell me what about me is "fishy".
Whysomuch, could you give me a explanation to your vote?
I have explained my vote a gazillion times already. Just because I vote you again doesn't mean I have to have different reasons than before.
I am confused though, because Veriant looks extremely bad right now. Like all his reads are justs sponges and he has no original thought, so I'm pretty sure he's a wolf. Which means you likely aren't a wolf.
It does seem like an easy bandwagon forming on AcecAnoka which Lazer and Mordanis have jumped on without stating any reasoning other than lurking. So is this a lurker lynch then or do you think he's scum?
O.Golden_ne posted a good case against him which seems to have some merit, as has Splinter[eP].
That takes the count up to 4 on AcecAnoka I believe.
On April 29 2012 04:00 Pure-SC2 wrote: It does seem like an easy bandwagon forming on AcecAnoka which Lazer and Mordanis have jumped on without stating any reasoning other than lurking. So is this a lurker lynch then or do you think he's scum?
O.Golden_ne posted a good case against him which seems to have some merit, as has Splinter[eP].
That takes the count up to 4 on AcecAnoka I believe.
I was actually going to say the same thing, but the people on Aces seem more villagey then the people on veriat.
I think I like a veriat lynch better than an aces lynch tbh though.
Golden, Mordanis, Lazer: Would you be willing to switch to Veriat? The_Zen has posted his case, and also if you go back and read his posts on your own, what do you think?
So it seems the majority votes forming on Veriat and AcecAnoka.
Who actually has a solid scum read on either of them?
2 people have made reasonable cases against AcecAnoka after which he's been bandwagoned up to 4 votes.
On Veriant, The_Zen_Man has made a reasonable case against him while yomi's on him for lurking. Our werewolf loving friend has now bandwagoned on here with no reasoning other than "because Veriant looks extremely bad right now" taking it up to 3.
So the questions are, who looks scumier, AcecAnoka or Veriant? And if the answer is neither, or not conclusive, then who is pushing for their lynches and why?
nonononononono water you guys doin? you planet all wrong.
Can't you see that other players are trying to rush people into a decision so fast?? Just because we dun have a majority vote, doesn't mean we should rush. Even though I voted for Yomi so fast in the game, i didn't rush. Just like what golden says, stay clam and dont panic. I know its fail logic right here, no apollo-gies here on my part.
Hopefully our analysis has been good enough that at least some of the people who have 2 or 3 votes are scum. That being said, our strategy should be to have everyone post the people they'd be willing to vote for. This will force the mafia to either risk voting for their own or they will reveal themselves (the circle of people who won't vote for each other will be the mafia). Personally, I'll vote for anyone who is close to a majority, or one of the triangle who won't vote for each other. Come on guys, we are running out of time and we need to start working together to make a lynch. Its crunch time guys, and we need teamwork to beat the mafia.
Guys, we have 4 hours. We need to get going. the closest we have is 4 now.
Sounds a bit to me like a rushing/get-on-the-band-wagon
On April 29 2012 00:25 Lazermonkey wrote: Noone is posting atm really. AcecAnoka havn't been posting in about a day, which could very well be due to IRL stuffs. But he is still my prime suspect.
##Vote: AcecAnoka
This vote may very well change tho, depending on the events in the evening!
Why are you voting for him? plz give a real reason.
I also feel like O.Golden_ne has the most influence over the votes with your "in depth analysis" and a galactic wall of texts.
On April 28 2012 18:26 Veriat wrote: Ok here are my thoughts on who are the scum:
The_Zen_Man nreekay324 Jailbreaker
The_Zen_Man You're stance on the "lynch no lynch" discussion has left me a little puzzled, and your overall playstyle seem fishy to me, so you're getting my vote.
nreekay324 All your posts just seem off and scummy. Many of them seem rushed or flawed, and you basically just jumped the bandwagon with your early vote on Why_So_Much. On a side note i did find Why_So_Much's playstyle kind of off, but i don't think he's scum, because then why would you vote for him?
Jailbreaker You've my number 3 due to consistent flaws in your previous posts.
Sounds more like regurgitation of O.Golden_ne's posts.
From what AcecAnoka has posted, I feel like we dont have enough info to point fingers at him. get off the bandwagon and look at other players posts just in general
Yeah, the more I think about it, I don't like a Aces vote because:
1) He is showing a thought process, albeit a misguided one, It's there and it's hard for new wolves to show a thought process
2) Overall tone of his posts, I didn't get the feeling that he was being overly defensive when people were calling him scummy, and he didn't lash out back at them calling them a mafia. Which I think is pretty townie of him to do
On the other hand I do have a mafia read on Veriat, he looks really bad right now.
@PureSC2 I think we need to lynch someone today, and by changing my vote I was able to put one player at 4 votes. Quite frankly, I don't like our chances if we let the mafia score a hit before we do. Originally, I thought we had much less time to analyze and talk, and I considered that a random lynch would be more harmful than no lynch. However, both veriat and Aces are both fairly low in post number and actual content. Simply put, they are not helping our cause. If we can work together as a town, we have a good shot at winning. If, however, we have people who disappear for 24 hours at a time, its going to be very difficult to survive.
Also, your lack of voting is making any organization very difficult. IDK if its a scummy thing or if you're just trying to apply the "non-bandwagon" principle from earlier, but we need to work together. If you are against a lynch, tell us why. Otherwise, you basically have to vote for Veriat or Aces. Frankly, they are both not helping much, so I'll vote for either.
I want to make sure I'm voting for a lynch on someone I believe is scum, or that there is a reason I believe is good enough. I'm not going to bandwagon onto a vote because thats what other people are doing, I'm going to do it for my own reasons.
There is still plenty of time left to vote and I'm busy looking at who's doing what and trying to understand why. Suggest you do the same.
Alright, this is the succession of posts that make Veriat look really dba
On April 28 2012 18:03 Veriat wrote: Ok i know i have the lowest post count, but be mindfull that this is my first forum mafia game. And the reasoning behind my "only agreeing and disagreeing" posts, is because many of my thoughts have already been posted, so posting it again would just be repition, which most of the posts in the earlier pages pretty much were. And each time i go to check on the game, it has expand with a few pages, so there's been a lot of information to go through. So (watch out another agreement!) i would agree that i indeed do look very scummy atm.
But this was just an explanation on my behavior, i'll have my analysis posted soonish.
We need rto hear your thoughts. It is important that we know where you stand on people talked about in the thread, even if someone has already said it. I highly doubt you are having the same exact thoughts on the same people for the same reasons, and you can always add to the discussion by stating your thoughts.
The 2nd underlined, idk, I dont like the fact that you added the stuff in the perenthesis, just seems unecessary but meh, this post isn't wolfy, but putting this with the following post makes it look really bad.
Ok here are my thoughts on who are the scum:
The_Zen_Man nreekay324 Jailbreaker
The_Zen_Man You're stance on the "lynch no lynch" discussion has left me a little puzzled, and your overall playstyle seem fishy to me, so you're getting my vote.
nreekay324 All your posts just seem off and scummy. Many of them seem rushed or flawed, and you basically just jumped the bandwagon with your early vote on Why_So_Much. On a side note i did find Why_So_Much's playstyle kind of off, but i don't think he's scum, because then why would you vote for him?
Jailbreaker You've my number 3 due to consistent flaws in your previous posts.
Your reasoning on The_Zen man is his stance on the "lynch no lynch" was the same exact stance you had. So idk why that would make you think he's a mafia. You see I could think that, cause we have opposing views on the matter, but you two were both on the side of "no lynch" so that doesn't make sense.
Your reasoning on nreekay, you called my playstyle off therefore why is it unreasonable for someone to vote me? How can I have an off play style and not be considered a mafia? That part is contradicting.
Your 3rd mafia read, Jailbreaker, I'm just calling shenanigans on this, why don't you point out the flaws?
Overall, there were no original thoughts in his reads and they were all sponges, which make sense because that's what he said in his earlier post. But what DOESN'T make sense, is that his sponges don't match his posts. His reasoning doesn't match up with what he says earlier, meaning that he is sponging just to sponge and not thinking about it.
I posted a case on Acec yesterday. Waited with my vot because I wanted to see other peoples opinions. Noone is yet to convice me that there is a better target than him tho. thus my vote...
WTF Jailbreaker You've completely switched your stance from
Oh, the Drama! We're stuck on a spaceship with close quarters.
Lazermonkey - Day one is the most important day to analyze. Even though it is a noob game, work needs to be done.
Pure-SC2 - The no lynch is a terrible idea. Misslynch is collateral damage. It happens.
I'm not playing the hate mafia squad, I dont want to get thrown out the air lock on the first day.
and
with all this nonsense talk about scheduals and lynch/no lynch, we're forgetting about the real issue here:
THERE'S MAFIA SCUM AMONG US.
I know it is day one, but does it have to be so passive? I don't want to vote for the wrong person based on three posts
and then making one of the first votes based on just a few hours of posts, now you are saying this
You switch to being against "bandwaggoning"? At this point, we need a full majority of 7 players to lynch. If you are against no-lynch, then you need to vote for one fo the 2 players whom most people are voting to lynch. It's fairly simple logic, so I'd ask you to either A) vote for someone who has a realistic chance of being elected lynched, or B) come out and tell us that you are against a lynch today. We have 3 hours and 45 minutes left, it's time to get ourselves organized. Hell, it's past time to get ourselves organized.
@ PureSC2, Both Veriat and Aces have gone lurking for 24 hrs+. This only harms the town. We need to be a unified group, and they are completely ruining any chance of that if they are town. If they are mafia, then we score a hit and they are down to three. Either way, town is much better off with them dead than alive. I switched my vote because we need 7 players to lynch. I think that both of the players who have a realistic chance of being lynched are more harm to the town than help whether they are town or mafia, so I want one of them out, so we can have a hope of becoming a unified team capable of taking down the mafia. Also, Aces has sort of dropped out of the thread at the most important time so far. The harm that's causing if he's town (distracting from the real mafia) is enough that we don't really want to worry about him in the future.
If it's down to AcecAnoka and Veriant, then I find Veriant most suspicious.
He has a weak case on The_Zen_Man which even after building on, doesn't really say anything to make me see what he is getting at. The basis of it is that The_Zen_Man is fishy, and was overly defensive. So in the back and forth between Veriant and The_Zen_Man, I get a stronger town read on The_Zen_Man and thought his case on Veriant had some good merit.
When I look at Veriant's filter I see these constant attempts to fit in with everyone else without really contributing. When he did finally contribute there was no substance, just feeding off other peoples posts. It's not looking good.
AcecAnoka looks suspicious, I'd have to agree with that. I haven't heard enough from him to push for a lynch unless we're lynching him for lurking, but at this stage as he doesn't have a vote he is liable to be mod killed.
I'm curious where Yomi is at and what he thinks of todays developments.
Haven't voted (1): Pure-SC2 A majority of at least 7 players is required to lynch. If one is not reached, no one will be lynched. Everyone is required to vote. Please PM me or use the Bolded and Green text if this Vote Count is incorrect
So right now, unless Aces comes back before the votes are finalized, he will be modkilled? The voting section said that you may not abstain, but it didn't list any penalty...
On April 29 2012 04:40 Mordanis wrote: So right now, unless Aces comes back before the votes are finalized, he will be modkilled? The voting section said that you may not abstain, but it didn't list any penalty...
Not necessarily modkilled, But i will discuss that possibility with artanis
Haven't voted (1):AcesAnoka A majority of at least 7 players is required to lynch. If one is not reached, no one will be lynched. Everyone is required to vote. Please PM me or use the Bolded and Green text if this Vote Count is incorrect
It's 5:38am where I am, i'm pulling an all nighter to correct my horrible sleeping patterns! Laddering hard to try to get to masters (ugh my ZvP is horrid). I'll be here for the lynch it seems. Though my comprehension at the moment is a little sub-par i'll try and function coherently!
On April 29 2012 04:03 WhySoMuch wrote: Golden, Mordanis, Lazer: Would you be willing to switch to Veriat? The_Zen has posted his case, and also if you go back and read his posts on your own, what do you think?
Veriat is my current 3rd scum-read, i would be happy to see him lynched. His behaviour and activity level isn't great as stated by several of the others. I cannot tell if he is town or mafia, but as a lurker i find him useless in the debate. In his inactivity lies his downfall, however with AcesAnoka and Nreekay it is their activity that has brought about my suspicions. Which leads me to question everyone in particular those voting for Veriat. If it comes down to AcesAnoka and Veriat do we lynch the flip-flop impulse voters who lurk and post fluff, or the absent veriat who 'stands firm' in his vote with the_zen_man and has otherwise done little.
I will change votes only until you can show me AcesAnoka is less of a threat than Veriat.
Since last time I regretted changing my vote so quickly, I'll hold of for a while, but I just wanted to say that I support a lynch for Veriat much more than a lynch of Aces. I will however, vote for whoever has the most votes between them because, as I've already posted several times, I think they are both harmful to the town either way. So please, people who are around, start working together to do something.
@O.Golden_ne - I think that Veriat has been shown to be more suspicious that AcesAnoka in what has already been posted.
I'm not saying AcesAnoka doesn't look suspicious because he most certainly does, but Veriats filter plays out like someone trying hard to fit in with everyones views, has avoided posting anything original (until essentially forced into it), and when he did it was weak and lacking any substance. All of which I can see a scummy motivation behind.
On April 29 2012 04:50 O.Golden_ne wrote: It's 5:38am where I am, i'm pulling an all nighter to correct my horrible sleeping patterns! Laddering hard to try to get to masters (ugh my ZvP is horrid). I'll be here for the lynch it seems. Though my comprehension at the moment is a little sub-par i'll try and function coherently!
On April 29 2012 04:03 WhySoMuch wrote: Golden, Mordanis, Lazer: Would you be willing to switch to Veriat? The_Zen has posted his case, and also if you go back and read his posts on your own, what do you think?
Veriat is my current 3rd scum-read, i would be happy to see him lynched. His behaviour and activity level isn't great as stated by several of the others. I cannot tell if he is town or mafia, but as a lurker i find him useless in the debate. In his inactivity lies his downfall, however with AcesAnoka and Nreekay it is their activity that has brought about my suspicions. Which leads me to question everyone in particular those voting for Veriat. If it comes down to AcesAnoka and Veriat do we lynch the flip-flop impulse voters who lurk and post fluff, or the absent veriat who 'stands firm' in his vote with the_zen_man and has otherwise done little.
I will change votes only until you can show me AcesAnoka is less of a threat than Veriat.
a very sleepy Golden.
Hi.
I take it you don't really like Aces. I'm sorry. I can't prove to you that Aces isn't scum, or that Veriat is. What I can say is that they are both very suspicious and they are both harming the town with their lurking. What I can also say is that if you change your vote to veriat, I will as well at that point, and then we will need only one more vote to secure a lynch. Also, as I posted earlier, one fo the best ways we'll be able to find mafia is by seeing who will and who won't vote for someone. If confronted with two fairly good candidates for lynching, a townie should be willing to vote for either. However, if one candidate is mafia, the mafia will only vote for the candidate who is town. The rigidity of your statement is very suspicious to me, and I hope its just because you are sleep deprived. You said that you think Veriat may be mafia, and he's been out for one 24ish hour stretch. He also hasn't really contributed anything.
Everyone. Please be somewhat flexible. You don't need to be 100% sure that someone is mafia to vote for them, you just have to be sure that the town won't be worse off without them. I personally think that we'd be better off without both, so I will vote for either of them we can get enough support to lynch.
On April 29 2012 04:50 O.Golden_ne wrote: It's 5:38am where I am, i'm pulling an all nighter to correct my horrible sleeping patterns! Laddering hard to try to get to masters (ugh my ZvP is horrid). I'll be here for the lynch it seems. Though my comprehension at the moment is a little sub-par i'll try and function coherently!
On April 29 2012 04:03 WhySoMuch wrote: Golden, Mordanis, Lazer: Would you be willing to switch to Veriat? The_Zen has posted his case, and also if you go back and read his posts on your own, what do you think?
Veriat is my current 3rd scum-read, i would be happy to see him lynched. His behaviour and activity level isn't great as stated by several of the others. I cannot tell if he is town or mafia, but as a lurker i find him useless in the debate. In his inactivity lies his downfall, however with AcesAnoka and Nreekay it is their activity that has brought about my suspicions. Which leads me to question everyone in particular those voting for Veriat. If it comes down to AcesAnoka and Veriat do we lynch the flip-flop impulse voters who lurk and post fluff, or the absent veriat who 'stands firm' in his vote with the_zen_man and has otherwise done little.
I will change votes only until you can show me AcesAnoka is less of a threat than Veriat.
a very sleepy Golden.
This post is hella sketch.
Your happy to see him lynched but you won't vote him?
As far as I know only 1 person is voting him becuase of his lack of activity. I am not. When he has been in the thread, his posts have been extremely wolfy as I and others have pointed out.
Okay, just quickly scanned over the thread posts. I will vote for Veriat instead to secure a lynch; while my analysis and other's of Aces makes sense I myself now see that the reasoning for Veriat is also quite concrete and some people are more sold on him than Aces. I think Veriat has tripped over himself more than Aces has as well, so thus:
##Unvote AcesAnoka
##Vote Veriat
I hope that he turns up red, but if not that means we've at least eliminated bad town play instead of someone more useful to the conversation.
What's 'hella sketch' about my post exactly if you don't mind me asking?
I've already stated the reasoning behind my lynch vote for AcesAnoka, I personally find his activity to be alot more suspicious than the inactivity which is what is making Veriat a suspect.
"Your happy to see him lynched but you won't vote him?" is answered here "I will change votes only until you can show me AcesAnoka is less of a threat than Veriat."
I will vote for him if we need too, but answer me this. Is Veriats 'wolfy' posts more detrimental to the team than AcesAnoka's?
Everyone please pay note to the response to this: @WhySoMuch What is your read on me? Is my steadfast view on AcesAnoka more 'hella sketch' than your own flip flop voting? 3 Votes in such a short period has me curious.
All you've said about Aces is that his play is erratic and illogical. To a certain extent, you need to expect that with people who are new to the game. I agree that Aces has been very suspicious, but what about his play has you so suspicious that you are not willing to vote for another, also very suspicious player. Right now, you are coming off as very defensive for Veriat, and it may just be that you really dislike Aces. I just really want to know why you want Aces lynched so much more than Veriat.
@Mordanis I am willing to vote for Veriat. I've said this several times. Look, we've got one hour left.. as Veriat is on my list so i'll change my vote. I am happy to lynch him based on his general lack of team play, evident in his posts and mainly his lurking. To make this last hour easier for town i'll post my vote now so that it is confirmed. However before i do this remember that [b]no matter what the outcome of todays lynch we have to consider Nreekay and AcesAnoka[b]. I still have strong reads on these players and i will cross-reference their actions to how the lynch pans out when i am better rested.
If Veriat flips town i will want to question those pushing for Veriats lynch over AcesAnoka. If Veriat flips mafia perhaps our town will be a little more unified.
Either way, we will have one less voter and one less lurker.
Okay everyone dont worry so much about perfect vote formatting in this game. The main reason why im being uptight about it is that some hosts use bots to count votes. Just make sure to make it bold and obvious, and remember to do it right for other games
On April 29 2012 05:50 O.Golden_ne wrote: WhySoMuch,
What's 'hella sketch' about my post exactly if you don't mind me asking?
I've already stated the reasoning behind my lynch vote for AcesAnoka, I personally find his activity to be alot more suspicious than the inactivity which is what is making Veriat a suspect.
"Your happy to see him lynched but you won't vote him?" is answered here "I will change votes only until you can show me AcesAnoka is less of a threat than Veriat."
I will vote for him if we need too, but answer me this. Is Veriats 'wolfy' posts more detrimental to the team than AcesAnoka's?
Everyone please pay note to the response to this: @WhySoMuch What is your read on me? Is my steadfast view on AcesAnoka more 'hella sketch' than your own flip flop voting? 3 Votes in such a short period has me curious.
Golden
I explained in my post why it was sketch. You saying you won't change your vote to Variat even though you are happy to see him lynched.
There are no detrimental posts, idk what you mean by that. Are Veriats posts more scummy than Aces? Yes, a lot more.
The bolded: Why are you so against voting him, like it's going to pain you to vote him, but if it's absolutely necessary you will when you said you would be happy to see him lynched. It doesn't make sense. If Veriat flips mafia, I am coming after you for being his partner.
And to answer your bolded question:
My read on you is that you are a mafia if Veriat flips mafia. Yes your steadfast view on Aces is more sketch than me flip flopping, what is so bad about flip-flopping? I'm showing I'm analysing posts in real time and drawing conclusions, then going back rereading and switching my stance. You are hesistant to vote someone you are "happy to lynch" and that's what makes your steadfast stance scummy.
If Veriat's town, then we are still a bit more unified because he was really just getting in our way. Most of the support to lynch him seems to have been mostly just as the player who could be lynched. Either way, thanks for not draggin this out to the deadline.
Vote Count - Less than 45 minutes to go Veriat: (7): yomi, The_Zen_Man, WhySoMuch, Pure-SC2, Splinter[eP], Mordanis, O.Golden_ne The_Zen_Man (1): Veriat Yomi (1): Jailbreaker AcesAnoka (1):Lazermonkey WhySoMuch (1): nreekay324
Haven't voted (1):AcesAnoka A majority of at least 7 players (which we currently have) is required to lynch. If one is not reached, no one will be lynched. Everyone is required to vote. Please PM me or use the Bolded and Green text if this Vote Count is incorrect
On April 29 2012 06:33 Mordanis wrote: So was this day cycle longer than normal? If so, will the night cycle and the next day cycle etc. also be longer?
In this mafia, Days last 48 hours with the exception of day 1, and nights last 24 hours. So yes, day 1 was longer than normal so that no time is taken away, and in the future days will be just 48 hours.
Regardless of the outcome of the lynch, I think today was very productive.
There's a core group of villagers emerging, and there's been good discussion. On top of that, we are lynching someone that most people are agreeing on.
Overall Very Good Day One. Now lets hope we got the right person.
The death of Captain Artanis had struck hard with the crew of Red Dwarf, and they had decided that the best course of action would be to fly to the nearest court, which was in orbit around Mars. Unfortunately, the crew discovers a mysterious phenomenom during their travel there.
Not phased by the dangers of the White Hole, the crew continued to the court and entered the court where a mind probe scans everyone for guilt. However, there is no guilt registered with any of the crewmembers by the mind probe, so they're all allowed to go free through the complex. At this point, the crew becomes suspicious that someone had been sabotaging the mind probe, probably the person whom committed murder. But who could it be? It had to be someone that knew how to work with the technology of a mind probe. After walking into the Justice Zone, which had an omnious voice saying "You are now entering the Justice Zone. Any crime you commit in this area will be done to yourself instead" which no one paid attention to, they decided to confront Veriat because they figured he was the only one that could fiddle with the mind probe. Veriat became worried and decided his only option was to try and kill everyone he saw. He brought out his gun and pointed it at the crew. He shot at someones head, but the bullet backfired and the last thing that went through Veriat's head was his own bullet. And with that, Veriat the simulant was no more.
Veriat the Mafia Roleblocker has been lynched!
it is now Night 1.
You have 24 hours to send in your night actions to both me and Artanis[Xp]. Remember that coaches are available for your leisure, and you're welcome to PM prplhz, Adam4167, or Mementoss at any time for advice. As always, feel free to PM Artanis[Xp] or myself if you have a question.
Also, it is important that i inform everyone that without Artanis here, i have decided that AcesAnoka will not be Modkilled today. AcesAnoka, This is your first and final warning, if you fail to vote again you will be modkilled and a 1 game ban will be requested.
On a happy note, this is the first game i have watched where a Mafia was lynched day 1. Allow me to extend my congratulations
You seem to be confusing reserved play as defensive play.
Since we have started i have maintained an outlook preferring to take in the whole picture and analyse play before making any judgment. I think my play is an asset to the town as it can be easy to slip into the habit of following the play in real time and perhaps missing key points. I classify this as a more reserved style than defensive.
To justify my position on a delayed vote switch to Veriat: since the beginning i have been pro-D1-lynch, it has been established that it is important in uncovering motives and gets the ball rolling in regards to seeing allegiances within the group. I did quite a bit of analysis on the players Nreekay324 and AcesAnoka finding them to be scummy, with my reserved playstyle i found that changing to a last minute change to Veriat was something i had to consider. I had to weigh up the benefits of the D1-lynch, and the groundwork that i had done on the previous two players.
Well we got a mafia with our first lynch, that's perfect! We all have some re-reading of Day 1 to do.
I welcome you coming after me WhySoMuch i have nothing to hide.
I was kind of disillusioned with this game since it's finals week but lol I guess I picked a winner. Night time is generally not a great time to post. Let the blue players do what they want and don't give mafia any hints on who they should kill.
On April 29 2012 07:07 O.Golden_ne wrote: @WhySoMuch.
You seem to be confusing reserved play as defensive play.
Since we have started i have maintained an outlook preferring to take in the whole picture and analyse play before making any judgment. I think my play is an asset to the town as it can be easy to slip into the habit of following the play in real time and perhaps missing key points. I classify this as a more reserved style than defensive.
To justify my position on a delayed vote switch to Veriat: since the beginning i have been pro-D1-lynch, it has been established that it is important in uncovering motives and gets the ball rolling in regards to seeing allegiances within the group. I did quite a bit of analysis on the players Nreekay324 and AcesAnoka finding them to be scummy, with my reserved playstyle i found that changing to a last minute change to Veriat was something i had to consider. I had to weigh up the benefits of the D1-lynch, and the groundwork that i had done on the previous two players.
Well we got a mafia with our first lynch, that's perfect! We all have some re-reading of Day 1 to do.
I welcome you coming after me WhySoMuch i have nothing to hide.
Golden
I don't know where your getting the terms "reserved" and "defensive" from. I never called your play either of those things.
I don't understand what your trying to say in your middle paragraph either. But you said you would be "Happy if Veriat was lynched" yet you did not vote him until it was clear that Aces was not going to be lynched and only then did you grudgingly move to Veriat saying "If I have to move I will".
These two actions, saying you're happy to lynch him and then showing hesitance and displeasure to vote him, don't add up. You can't have one with the other.
I think I'm going to get all my thoughts out there during this night period because I believe I am a likely target for tonight's kill. Hence my posting. The Mafia isn't stupid and they know who they should kill, posting isn't really gonna give them any clues on who to kill. Obviously you could also try to level with them if you are not a power role to draw the kill as well.
If you choose not to post I don't think it's a bad thing, but I think we can use tonight to get a jump on tomorrow
On April 28 2012 18:26 Veriat wrote: Ok here are my thoughts on who are the scum:
The_Zen_Man nreekay324 Jailbreaker
The_Zen_Man You're stance on the "lynch no lynch" discussion has left me a little puzzled, and your overall playstyle seem fishy to me, so you're getting my vote.
nreekay324 All your posts just seem off and scummy. Many of them seem rushed or flawed, and you basically just jumped the bandwagon with your early vote on Why_So_Much. On a side note i did find Why_So_Much's playstyle kind of off, but i don't think he's scum, because then why would you vote for him?
Jailbreaker You've my number 3 due to consistent flaws in your previous posts.
Just gonna do some spew analysis first. This is about the only post of use that he wrote.
The_Zen_Man is pretty much clear forever, he made a case on Veriat when he could have chosen a lot of other people and Veriat then goes and makes him his #1 wolf read and later makes a case on him. You just don't see this being mafia/mafia with newer mafia
nreekay I think is also spewed cleared here as well i think. If your gonna put a mafia in your mafia reads, it's not gonna be like this with qualifiers and extra useless info in my opinion.
However JailBreaker, this is exactly how a newer mafia would do it, he just throws his name out there with some lame, non existent reasoning. I am moving Jailbreaker to the mafia side for this alone.
I was just away from my computer and I'm not sure if im delirious from these strange hours I've been keeping but I've had a thought and rushed back to check the thread. Please hear me out, I know it's night and it makes it a very dangerous time to be posting something like this for fear of getting shot but i really want to put it out there regardless. Here goes.
So AcesAnoka wasn't modkilled, perhaps this is because it would have led to TWO mafia being killed in the first day which is almost unheard of.
Leaves me open to a snipe tonight but I will be asking everyone for their support In a lynch of AcesAnoka in day 2.
I thought the odds of Veriat being mafia were at about 15% (just personal conjecture), but the lurking.... Anyways, I'll be playing some Deus Ex, gl all, hope to see you all in the morning
Wow, such a nice day-1 kill! I wasn't at home last night but I followed the drama from my phone : P
I think this would somewhat clear AcecAnoka from being mafia more or less, no? Mafia could've easily tried to spread the votes among him and Veriat to avoid lynching Verait.
I wont put too much words on it. I went to a wedding yesterday and only came home at 2AM today. I'm really sorry that I couldn't be there to vote and analyse the thread in the past day, and by some that made me suspicious and I cant blame them; because I didn't post at all in that time span.
Sorry for not being there guys and thanks for giving me another chance.
EDIT: Just read through the whole thread and from what i've seen Veriat looked very suspicious, if I were there my vote would've gone to him too. I already thought it was strange that he was lurking so hard and his reasoning behind his voting was not much.
nreekay324 - His filter reads suspicious to me. I see a vote for WhySoMuch, follwed by an unbolded unvote. He then leaves it at that. He makes no comment against the most suspicious person in the game so far, who was proven to be mafia. So he votes for WhySoMuch, and has FoS against Golden, Me, Yomi and The_Zen_Man (incidently all of which voted for Veriat). Very suspicious.
Jailbreaker - I've had an off read on him from the beginning. There isn't a lot there to analyse. However he does come in a few hours before the lynch deadline and posts in a sort of defense against AcesAnoka, saying we don't have enough info to point fingers at him. How does he feel about Veriat? Other than pointing him out in a post about Lurkers (which includes 6 others), he doesn't seem to have any scum read on him other than pointing out one of his posts sounds like a regurgitation on Golden's posts.
Other notes:
AcesAnoka - not sure about him, but do note that he doesn't have an opinion on Veriat until after he's flipped mafia. I get a novice townie feel here, but it is suspicious that he doesn't mention Veriat. Worth keeping an eye on.
WhySoMuch - flipped around a lot prior to the voting deadline. I don't like seeing this though in this instance not sure it means anything. If he was scum I don't think he'd state he was certain I was town, but then I didn't think Veriat would say he looked scummy before flipping mafia.
For what it's worth, Lazermonkey never had any posted suspicions on Veriat. Not saying this means anything, just noting for the record.
After celebrating the death of the simulant Veriat during the night, the lads of Red Dwarf decided to celebrate it with a game of guess the fruit. Despite his best attempts at guessing which fruit it was, Yomi could never quite get it right despite it being in plain sight, probably due to the large amount of alcohol he consumed that day. As he went for an early night, he noticed a knock on his door. After opening it, he noticed it was his old friend [name deleted]. [name deleted] asked if Yomi was interested in a game of Truth or Dare, and Yomi indicated that he preferred playing this game with women, but he'll make an exception for his trusty friend.
After choosing Truth, his old friend asked him if he was alive. "Of course! What kind of weird question is thAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH" Yomi screamed after an iron wrench pierced his chest. The rest of the crew was woken up by the scream and quickly went to Yomi's quarters, but only found a dead body and no trace of the murderer. They then realized that they had only killed one simulant, but there were more on board. The crew alerted Holly, the ship's AI, whom decided the best course of action was to go back to sleep and decide in the morning what to do next, and informed the crew it could always be worse. At least the murderer didn't run a tape of Rebecca Black through the ship. Yomi the Village Townie has been murdered! It is now Day! You have 48 hours to vote. Failure to vote from here on out will end up in a modkill, no more leniency. Remember that coaching is available from our three coaches, Adam4167, Mementoss and prplhz.
Please disregard. If you havent already, go PM a coach! just having someone to voice your thoughts to can help a lot, even if you dont necessarily need help.
LOL, that may be the best farewell posts in history. Golden, would you please post some of your reasoning for holding off your vote for so long? that was kinda suspicious, as shown by already having a vote.
Day Two: This is a solid read, please re-read it as it has alot of analysis and i don't want any of it missed.
Hi again everyone, back into coherent analysis mode after a massive binge sleep and a re-set of my body clock! There are several important points worth noting for our lynch in Day 2 in regards to Veriats lynching and Yomi's assassination. I feel that i should also give my analysis on WhySoMuch as he has already voted for me today and i should post a rebut, as we need every single accurate vote today because we are 1 townie vote down out of 10. There are 8 town left and we need a majority of 6 and mafia are unlikely to vote for themselves! But let me explain that after the main analysis of this post.
In the light of Veriat's lynching:
Veriats lynching was a great positive step for the group so early on in the game. He did nothing for the group and was lurking. Now that Veriat has been evicted from the group it renders the Mafia unable to hide under the guise of lurker. The group has accurately sniped a lurker and promoted that active play is what is expected from one of us. Veriat is the prime example of a lurking, hiding mafia, now i fear we will see the rise of either of two kinds of Mafia. A soft-spoken yet explanatory "sponge" Mafia, who will easily slip into someone like WhySoMuch's ill-explained town-lists under the guise of participation and in the safety of assumed mutual innocence. Or a second type of which i have my own suspicions but i will keep to myself until i can be 100% sure. You will have to trust me on this one.
In the light of Yomi's assassination:
Unfortunately they got yomi. He was dangerous to the Mafia because he was erratic, but maybe even more dangerous because he was right. I see no reason for them to snipe yomi as a #1 priority, there were several other out-spoken target which could have yielded better results for them. I have shown a level of insight, WhySoMuch has shown to be aggro and effective in persuading votes at the end of deadline, Pure-SC2 have also given some good points. So perhaps it [i]was[i/] because of his inclination to get things right?. If you look at yomi's feed he voted WhySoMuch, Nreekay and finally Veriat. I'm glad 7 of us got to Veriat in the end, but yomi voted him first shortly after he appeared #3 on my mafia list.
Yomi's strength may have been in his ability to "get it right", however his weakness in my eyes was his little posting. It would have been great to know his thoughts after the DAY1 lynch, especially his thoughts on a top 3 suspect list.
I think that the reason they shot him was because while he may not have been a provider of new idea's, he was a provider of solid voting. Shooting an idea-provider would be greatly substantial for the Mafia in the early game so why didn't they? WhySoMuch could have been an ideal target and he even noted it himself so he binged out idea's in the night time. I thought that perhaps if WhySoMuch was shot than i would consider his idea's posted to be given a little more credence than i have (read below), but that is moot as he hasn't been shot.
THIS the fact that he wasn't shot makes him slightly suspicious, as who would be able to spew ideas in the night time and not get shot? Perhaps a Mafia who want's to incriminate someone who has been contributing to the group with a 'legitimate nightime argument' without any contest. This is highly strange behaviour. He wasn't sniped, and his idea has gone uncontested. If WhySoMuch was mafia and his position on me was known in Day 1 and i was sniped he would be considered suspicious. So he gave his idea's hoping they will be absorbed on the record, but unchallenged and so he could use them for his benefit at a later date ("oh woops we sniped a townie, what? justify why he's my target? WELL, i commented about him at night, surely he would have sniped me") all the while sniping a solid voter town.
My opinion of WhySoMuch and his vote on me.
You've tried very hard to set yourself up as the 'Champion of the Veriat lynch', however as i see it you voted 3 times yesterday within rapid succession. Then by admitting 'your townies' had voted for another player you jumped on a bandwagon, which i see as very loose play. By doing that you 'won over' a cheap sort of allegiance with these players, you seem to be trying to foster some surface level friendships with these players and then persecute me for not quickly jumping between 'bandwagons'. My vote on AcesAnoka was reasoned and explained and you've belittled it with this style of play. Yes, Veriat was mafia. Yes, i didn't change vote quickly. Is it more suspect to change votes quickly just before lynch time if you've explained your stance in great detail previously? I feel my style has been efficient in gathering information on players. I also feel that had i changed quickly you would have found me suspicious also. I was going to change votes in due course and i did, which was explained in my posts which you never seem to comprehend.
You worry me, you don't read very deeply into the game or into other peoples posts. I have had trouble with many of your responses to questions asked of you in regards to content and your stubborn attitude. I've answered your suspicions of me and you seem very against me. This stubborn attitude should be alleviated and you should read deeper into everyone's posts not just people who don't emerge on your core group of villagers. Please keep your vote on me until you decide with a little more consideration who is Mafia, because i assure you with 100% conviction i am Town, and that i am an asset to the Town.
On a side note that you've said there is a 'core group of villages emerging' with little explanation of this town list (Bar the_zen_man) compared this to the depth your 'explanation' of your vote for me. This could be worrisome as mafia could easily slip into your Town list. Your initial justification of your vote against Veriat was fairly slim which you rectified with some loose quoting, but lynching him wasn't because of your pressure on me. If you create a group of innocents in your mind please dont let this cloud your 'bull in a china shop' analysis of players.
@WhySoMuch: I am not suspicious of you as mafia. I think you are a very surface level thinking, stubborn and aggressive town. Please explain N1 to me. @People who may consider WhySoMuch suspicious: In his defence, while he may have some contradictory and flip-flop opinions towards the end of day one and had a very strong conviction to get a lynch he was much more active and aggressive than i would expect even of an aggressive mafia.
@Nreekay324 How do you reason this argument now. In the hindsight that Yomi was actually innocent. It makes your play look very squirmy under the pressure you were recieveing. Explain.
On April 28 2012 04:12 nreekay324 wrote: Both Golden and Pure SC2 cite yomi’s previous game, in which he played blantantly aggressively and voted early off of little (no) evidence. I know this, because I was in the same game yomi was in. His play severely impacted that game, and it was still on my mind in the beginning of this game. What I find interesting however, is that both Golden and PureSC2 are making the beginnings of yomi’s town case FOR him, with the previous game serving as “meta-game evidence”. This is suspicious to me. They are beginning yomi’s defense case for him, why not let him make it? Further, if yomi decided to use this “meta-game evidence to make a case for himself eventually, I would be highly suspicious of yomi, because it could be a perfect mafia play. If other “townies” began the defense for yomi, it’d go down a lot better. However, I can’t make a claim against yomi because he really hasn’t said much. So, ##FOS: Golden, PureSC2.
K well I just typed up a longish post and it got deleted. So here is my less pretty version
The_Zen_Man- He made a case on Veriat when he could have chosen anyone at that point to make a case on. He is the clearest person in the game right now in my opinion and really don't see him ever flipping mafia
PureSC- He was the one that recognized the scumminess of Veriat's "In-depth read list" first. Most mafia would have saw their teammate post that and said "oh ok, good" and moved on. I don't see him being a mafia
Splinter- Had every reason to be on Aces, as he made a case on him earlier in the day, but switched his vote to a mafia, with little hesistation. I just don't see that being mafia/mafia violence either. Also, he placed probably the most critical vote out of everyone on Veriat.
nReeKay- I like the fact that he has been adjusting his reads throughout the game. Originally I was supicious of him because his vote on me looked super sketch, but his response to that seemed genuine. This read obviously isn't as strong as the others but I would not like to see him voted today
LazerMonkey- This one is kind of just overall. Nothing real solid, I'm just getting Town vibes from him
As for the 'Champion of the Veriat' lynch. No I wasn't the first person, or the second, or even the third, but I think without me stating why I think Veriat was a mafia and why Aces was not, I swung the late voters. Had I taken a nonchalant approach I very much believe that we could have had a "no-lynch" yesterday.
As for your whole post, I don't know if you would write that whole thing out as a mafia, but that's about the only thing town-like of your post. Your whole post is essentially soft-pushing me mafia, yet in the end you call me a town?
The reason why I raise suspicion at you is not because of the time it took, but because of the words you used.
On April 29 2012 04:50 O.Golden_ne wrote:
Veriat is my current 3rd scum-read, i would be happy to see him lynched. His behaviour and activity level isn't great as stated by several of the others. I cannot tell if he is town or mafia, but as a lurker i find him useless in the debate.
I will change votes only until you can show me AcesAnoka is less of a threat than Veriat.
Notice the bold. Then read the last sentence. Those to lines don't add up.
But on a side note: Did we prove to you Aces was less of a threat than Veriat?
On April 29 2012 05:50 O.Golden_ne wrote: I will vote for him if we need too, but answer me this. Is Veriats 'wolfy' posts more detrimental to the team than AcesAnoka's?
Notice the tone in the bold. It doesn't make sense that you are "happy to vote him" but will only vote him "if we need to".
Mordanis- Originally I thought he looked really good, but going back I don't like it as much. I'm not advocating a vote for him in the least. But he was really spongy on his vote of Veriat, only switching to him if someone else did. But meh, We will see what comes of today.
@Everyone- Thoughts on Jailbreaker? Obviously I think Golden is a mafia but we aren't gonna spend the whole day talking about especially when I don't think he's gonna get a maj on him. So a good alternative is Jailbreakers imo.
What raised alarm bells for me is 2 things:
1) Veriat magically put him on a wolf list with almost no explanation. This is a feeble attempt to seperate themselves should one of them be lynched.
On April 29 2012 04:09 Jailbreaker wrote: nonononononono water you guys doin? you planet all wrong.
Can't you see that other players are trying to rush people into a decision so fast?? Just because we dun have a majority vote, doesn't mean we should rush. Even though I voted for Yomi so fast in the game, i didn't rush. Just like what golden says, stay clam and dont panic. I know its fail logic right here, no apollo-gies here on my part.
Hopefully our analysis has been good enough that at least some of the people who have 2 or 3 votes are scum. That being said, our strategy should be to have everyone post the people they'd be willing to vote for. This will force the mafia to either risk voting for their own or they will reveal themselves (the circle of people who won't vote for each other will be the mafia). Personally, I'll vote for anyone who is close to a majority, or one of the triangle who won't vote for each other. Come on guys, we are running out of time and we need to start working together to make a lynch. Its crunch time guys, and we need teamwork to beat the mafia.
On April 29 2012 00:25 Lazermonkey wrote: Noone is posting atm really. AcecAnoka havn't been posting in about a day, which could very well be due to IRL stuffs. But he is still my prime suspect.
##Vote: AcecAnoka
This vote may very well change tho, depending on the events in the evening!
Why are you voting for him? plz give a real reason.
I also feel like O.Golden_ne has the most influence over the votes with your "in depth analysis" and a galactic wall of texts.
On April 28 2012 18:26 Veriat wrote: Ok here are my thoughts on who are the scum:
The_Zen_Man nreekay324 Jailbreaker
The_Zen_Man You're stance on the "lynch no lynch" discussion has left me a little puzzled, and your overall playstyle seem fishy to me, so you're getting my vote.
nreekay324 All your posts just seem off and scummy. Many of them seem rushed or flawed, and you basically just jumped the bandwagon with your early vote on Why_So_Much. On a side note i did find Why_So_Much's playstyle kind of off, but i don't think he's scum, because then why would you vote for him?
Jailbreaker You've my number 3 due to consistent flaws in your previous posts.
Sounds more like regurgitation of O.Golden_ne's posts.
From what AcecAnoka has posted, I feel like we dont have enough info to point fingers at him. get off the bandwagon and look at other players posts just in general
Originally I thought this was a town-like statement to make. But looking back at it with results in mind I don't like it.
He says we're doing everything wrong, but doesn't give any alternatives. He is merely commentating on the game instead of adding to the game. It is also weird that he soft-defends Aces and soft-Attacks Veriat, though he does not vote Veriat. It seems he is trying to get people to move to different wagons than we had. If he had added more and given his own suggestion, I think this is very town-like post, but because he doesn't it makes me very wary of him
Frankly, I was simply reluctant to change my 3 times in about an hour. In reality, I was more for a lynch for either player than I was for a lynch of specifically one of them. At that point, Aces hadn't posted in about a day, so without knowing any justification for why he was lurking, he was a good candidate for a lynch even if there was a low probability of his being mafia just because he wasn't any help for the town. Hell, I'm still for lynching lurkers even if there is a low probability of them turning out scum because we need to work together. Lurking only hurts us. Also, if you look at the earlier parts of the thread, I was one of the first to put pressure on Veriat, which I don't see mafia doing.
After that little bit of defense, I'm very glad to have suspicion cast upon me. We need to have everyone defending themselves and looking at other players behavior. I'd like to think that I'm one of the least scummy posters, but I have no problems. I'll be able to post a bit more in a little bit, so bye for a few minutes :D
I'm kinda bummed that yomi was a townie. Seriously thought he was mafia D: Since I voted to horribly wrong, I'm going to delay my vote until it is closer to the deadline.
WhySoMuch - so honored to be a suspect on your list. You're right, i have been commentating to much on everyone's posts. i didn't vote veriat because it seemed like a bandwagon case to me.
On April 30 2012 11:53 Mordanis wrote: Frankly, I was simply reluctant to change my 3 times in about an hour. In reality, I was more for a lynch for either player than I was for a lynch of specifically one of them. At that point, Aces hadn't posted in about a day, so without knowing any justification for why he was lurking, he was a good candidate for a lynch even if there was a low probability of his being mafia just because he wasn't any help for the town. Hell, I'm still for lynching lurkers even if there is a low probability of them turning out scum because we need to work together. Lurking only hurts us. Also, if you look at the earlier parts of the thread, I was one of the first to put pressure on Veriat, which I don't see mafia doing.
After that little bit of defense, I'm very glad to have suspicion cast upon me. We need to have everyone defending themselves and looking at other players behavior. I'd like to think that I'm one of the least scummy posters, but I have no problems. I'll be able to post a bit more in a little bit, so bye for a few minutes :D
All I get is a scum vibe from you on this post. But i feel like i don't have enough info on you to make a significant case against you. Seeing how I take individual posts instead of looking at the context of the posts.
Although it's sad we lost yomi in the night, I think getting the successful lynch on day 1 is a huge plus for us, and means we can push to lynch any lurkers meaning everyone has to stay active during this day.
So lets stay active, and either identify who's lurking and/or who are the most suspicious people out there.
For starters, I want to here my top scum reads respond to my comments on them - thats means you nreekay324 and Jailbreaker.
Mafia hit people for a reason. What was the reason behind yomi getting whacked? Well in the course of day 1, other than getting annoyed by WhySoMuch, he had genuine suspicions of two people, Veriat and nreekay324.
We know one of them was scum, and nreekay324 is my strongest scum read (refer to my night post just before the deadline). If you were the two remaining mafia, and you had seem yomi lead the lynch on one of your scum buddies, and he had found you suspicious, wouldn't that make him a good target?
Interesting points related to the hit on yomi: - After the first day post, nreekay324 states "looks like my suspicions about yomi may have been wrong though..." - this is interesting in that if nreekay324 knows yomi is about to die and flip town it's a good way to clear himself from his earlier stated suspicions of yomi. - People who found yomi suspicious: Jailbreaker, AcesAnoka, nreekay324
My reads so far, from most likely town to dunno relly to most likely scum:
Nova/The_Zen_Man - Like everyone already said, their actions can't be explained in any other way that they are twonies.
AcesAnoka - My prime suspect from day 1. Like a said before, Him being scum doesn't make alot of sense to me atm. Mafia would just spread votes between him and Verait. However I think that he is play is quite strange. The only thing he posted after he got him from the wedding was some excuses and this:
On April 29 2012 18:03 AcesAnoka wrote: EDIT: Just read through the whole thread and from what i've seen Veriat looked very suspicious, if I were there my vote would've gone to him too. I already thought it was strange that he was lurking so hard and his reasoning behind his voting was not much.
This is just so strange to say imo. This would be a somewhat safe way to say that he is town because Veriat DID in fact flip scum but what if he wouldn't have? We will never know which is why I feel this post is just so unnecessary. Aces, I'm leaning town on you but not because of your play. Step up and contribute!
WhySoMuch - Orginally you were town for me. But I share the concerns of Golden against you. I am also a bit puzzled by your night play also feel. Sure you added some cool points, but why not do it later? This would ensure that scum had no time to switch their votes if you really were that afraid of getting killed.
On April 29 2012 08:50 WhySoMuch wrote: I think I'm going to get all my thoughts out there during this night period because I believe I am a likely target for tonight's kill. Hence my posting. The Mafia isn't stupid and they know who they should kill, posting isn't really gonna give them any clues on who to kill. Obviously you could also try to level with them if you are not a power role to draw the kill as well. If you choose not to post I don't think it's a bad thing, but I think we can use tonight to get a jump on tomorrow
I also don't like this post. Feels like you are baiting medics/jailers here.
Jailbreaker - Not posting much that can be usefull as of yet. And he just added this post:
On April 30 2012 16:13 Jailbreaker wrote: Mordanis - + Show Spoiler +
On April 30 2012 11:53 Mordanis wrote: Frankly, I was simply reluctant to change my 3 times in about an hour. In reality, I was more for a lynch for either player than I was for a lynch of specifically one of them. At that point, Aces hadn't posted in about a day, so without knowing any justification for why he was lurking, he was a good candidate for a lynch even if there was a low probability of his being mafia just because he wasn't any help for the town. Hell, I'm still for lynching lurkers even if there is a low probability of them turning out scum because we need to work together. Lurking only hurts us. Also, if you look at the earlier parts of the thread, I was one of the first to put pressure on Veriat, which I don't see mafia doing.
After that little bit of defense, I'm very glad to have suspicion cast upon me. We need to have everyone defending themselves and looking at other players behavior. I'd like to think that I'm one of the least scummy posters, but I have no problems. I'll be able to post a bit more in a little bit, so bye for a few minutes :D
All I get is a scum vibe from you on this post. But i feel like i don't have enough info on you to make a significant case against you. Seeing how I take individual posts instead of looking at the context of the posts.
will post more when i have a goodnight sleep
Which only increases my suspicion of him. If you check his filter you can also spot of mass escuses on why he is posting so "scummy" things.
His play with yomi/Verait also is pointing towards him being scum but people have already talked about that enough, which is why I don't include it in this post. Overall this is my strongest scumread atm.
I am too lazy to complete the list as I havn't really got very strong reads of Mordanis, Splinter[eP], nreekay324 and golden(don't think I missed anyone, did I?). Will update this post later on with my read on theese guys!
@WhySoMuch - your case on Golden, well it's not a case at all. He responds to your voting on him and provides solid reasoning and defense, and your case is built around the fact that he had a solid scum read (which he posted a case around) and didn't want to flip off it the moment a bandwagon formed. Your voting behaviour in the lead up to the lynch is waaaay more suspicious than his.
You're tunneling him hard, and with no case to back it up its essentially cluttering up the thread.
First of all, lazermonkey, i want to say that i am not with you on the Nova part in your post. I don't trust him, he is always posting these weird post about people dying and stuff, could be a scum move (lol)
Secondly, i do share your opinion on WhySoMuch. I have been suspicious of him from the start, and his latest games has not helped him. Below i will make my case against him.
On April 26 2012 22:51 The_Zen_Man wrote: Hey guys!
This is my first game of maifa, but i have been following other games a bit. I also think that the "no lynch" option could prove useful early in the game to avoid misslynch. The other game i was following misslynched on the first day simply because they didn't have enough information.
Someone already pointed this out and I've already stated my position but I'd like to take it a step further,
I find this post very wolfy, more so than Varient or however you spell his name who said the same thing essentially, because you aren't thinking deeper. You say in the other game they mislynched on the first day because they didn't have enough information, but how do we expect to gain information if we "No Lynch"? Day 2 will essentially be a repeat of day 1.
Also, Voting early and often leads to profit,
##VOTE: The_Zen_Man
hope i did that right
This is what WhySoMuch posted when he voted for me the first time. He says that he found my post very "Wolfy", but pays almost no attention to Veriat, with the explanation that i am not thinking deep enough. To show you how much "deeper" Veriat post was, here it is
On April 26 2012 22:55 Veriat wrote: Hello Everybody!
I love the theme and i'm very excited to get this show on the road! Like many here this is my first game so i'm looking forward to a good time with you fine lads (and lasses)
As Pure-SC2 said, i share his opinion on the "no lynch" vote since this is a game full of newbies like myself, and there isn't all that information up in the air the first day, which we can use to base good lynches on.
With that said, Game on and let's get the discussion going!
My post before might not have been the deepest post, but this is not much better. I think that the "deeper" part was just an excuse to push away attention from his scum buddy and towards me.
On April 27 2012 19:28 WhySoMuch wrote:
This whole post just seems off to me.
Like you think this is what a townie would say
But a few things:
1st underline: we gain information by lynching someone, it's not an "if", I am 100% sure we gain knowledge by lynching anyone today. And if your a townie you should realize this, as of yet no one has implied we don't gain knowledge by lynching someone except you.
2nd underline: We don't ever lynch someone just cause, that just doesn't happen. We lay out our views and decide who seems most likely to be a mafia and we vote them. [/QUOTE]
The part about this post that seemed strange to me is " And if your a townie you should realize this". Im not sure how being a mafia or town matters if a have some information.
Then, after having posted with about 5 post saying how i am "Wolf", he unvotes me but says that he still haves me as scum. Maybe he realized that no one took his suspicioins against me seriously and decided to give up, but still have me as a possible scum if he needed one.
On April 28 2012 09:35 WhySoMuch wrote: Town: Splinter LazerMonkey Mordanis
Mafia: The_Zen_Man Nreekay
He then proceds to vote for me anyway, with not much more explanation than this. Mordanis posted a case against Veriat just a few post before this one. Maybe he tried to direct attention towards me instead of his scum buddy. Veriat then also votes for me, probably to try a bandwagon on me.
On April 28 2012 18:26 Veriat wrote: Ok here are my thoughts on who are the scum:
The_Zen_Man nreekay324 Jailbreaker
The_Zen_Man You're stance on the "lynch no lynch" discussion has left me a little puzzled, and your overall playstyle seem fishy to me, so you're getting my vote.
nreekay324 All your posts just seem off and scummy. Many of them seem rushed or flawed, and you basically just jumped the bandwagon with your early vote on Why_So_Much. On a side note i did find Why_So_Much's playstyle kind of off, but i don't think he's scum, because then why would you vote for him?
Jailbreaker You've my number 3 due to consistent flaws in your previous posts.
This post was really not saying much about anything, but there is something interesting here. He writes that "On a side note i did find Why_So_Much's playstyle kind of off, but i don't think he's scum, because then why would you vote for him?". This might be Veriat trying to back up his scum buddy, and take away suspicions from people.
On April 28 2012 18:29 Pure-SC2 wrote: I'm getting an off read on WhySoMuch, I don't really understand it so just going to post my thoughts in case someone else can make something out of it.
So we're playing a newbie game here, for people who've played 3 or less games. yet here he is so ingrained in his Wolves/Villages thing that he can't even proof read his posts to change it to reflect the fact we're playing Mafia here, on the TL mafia forums, in which everyone else is referencing mafia/scum and townies? How many games do you have to have played to get it that ingrained in your head? And after its been mentioned by a few people, why wouldn't he make any effort to do something about it?
Yet his posts seem well thought out and carefully worded.
He goes on and asks the most basic fundamental questions that can be answered by using the tiniest bit of logical thought (how to quote posts and view more posts on a page), which doesn't line up with the fact that his posts seem to be well thought out and logical.
I don't trust him. It's like he's playing this naive, simpleton role here so that he won't come under suspicion.
It's the same game, Y'all call it Mafia, We call it Werewolf. It's the same principal and I'm really confused why people are so caught up on it. This is newb game for people that have played 3 or less games ON THIS SITE. That is why I signed up for it, to get a feel for THIS SITE. So many things are different, such as requiring a Majority to lynch someone, that I think it was best to play a game like this before trying out the non-newb games. I have played over 100 games on the other forum using wolve/villager lingo, so to answer your question about 100 games to get it ingrained.
I am making an effort, every time you see the word Mafia or Town most likely I had to go back and erase wolf/villager. However sometimes I forget.
I didn't ask how to quote posts, I asked how to quote multiple posts, because on the other site, I can click a button and it will multi-quote for me. THis forum did not have it, and I was wondering what people usually do instead. As for the "All" button I probably should have figured that out, but again, on the other forum there is an option to change posts per page from 25 to 100.
On April 28 2012 18:52 The_Zen_Man wrote: Yes, but on the other hand, that might be the point. Veriat might have written that so that people would stop suspecting him. But this is all theories. He was lurking for quite a while, and when people start suspecting him he suddenly shows up with some accusations. I find that very suspicious. For these reason, im going to vote for him.
##vote: Veriat
Also Veriat, as Pure-SC2 said, please tell me what about me is "fishy".
Whysomuch, could you give me a explanation to your vote?
I have explained my vote a gazillion times already. Just because I vote you again doesn't mean I have to have different reasons than before.
I am confused though, because Veriant looks extremely bad right now. Like all his reads are justs sponges and he has no original thought, so I'm pretty sure he's a wolf. Which means you likely aren't a wolf.
##vote: Veriat
This is also very interesting. This is what WhySoMuch posted after i put up a possible Veriat and WhySoMuch connection. I think that he saw the only way out of it was too vote his scum buddy veriat, that way when Veriat flips Mafia he would be shown as a good townie.
After that he switches votes two times, back to Veriat again. This was maybe because he tried to save his scum buddy in one last effort. But when he realized it wasn't going to happen he changed again, so that he might look like a good townie.
He then haves a unusually lot of activity during the night. He explains this with that he is probably the Mafia target, but i don't get that. There were plenty of people(me including) that played a part in Veriat being lynched. He also makes this post:
On April 28 2012 18:26 Veriat wrote: Ok here are my thoughts on who are the scum:
The_Zen_Man nreekay324 Jailbreaker
The_Zen_Man You're stance on the "lynch no lynch" discussion has left me a little puzzled, and your overall playstyle seem fishy to me, so you're getting my vote.
nreekay324 All your posts just seem off and scummy. Many of them seem rushed or flawed, and you basically just jumped the bandwagon with your early vote on Why_So_Much. On a side note i did find Why_So_Much's playstyle kind of off, but i don't think he's scum, because then why would you vote for him?
Jailbreaker You've my number 3 due to consistent flaws in your previous posts.
Just gonna do some spew analysis first. This is about the only post of use that he wrote.
The_Zen_Man is pretty much clear forever, he made a case on Veriat when he could have chosen a lot of other people and Veriat then goes and makes him his #1 wolf read and later makes a case on him. You just don't see this being mafia/mafia with newer mafia
nreekay I think is also spewed cleared here as well i think. If your gonna put a mafia in your mafia reads, it's not gonna be like this with qualifiers and extra useless info in my opinion.
However JailBreaker, this is exactly how a newer mafia would do it, he just throws his name out there with some lame, non existent reasoning. I am moving Jailbreaker to the mafia side for this alone.
He writes that i am pretty much clear forever, which might be to remove any suspicions i might have. I think everyone knows that i am a town, as my case on Veriat turned a few players around. You are just stating the obvious, and trying to look better in my eyes.
WhySoMuch then proceds to try and start a case against golden, with still little to no basis for this at all.
WhySoMuch is looking very suspicious to me, and i would like to hear the other players thoughts.
On April 30 2012 16:13 Jailbreaker wrote: I'm kinda bummed that yomi was a townie. Seriously thought he was mafia D: Since I voted to horribly wrong, I'm going to delay my vote until it is closer to the deadline.
WhySoMuch - so honored to be a suspect on your list. You're right, i have been commentating to much on everyone's posts. i didn't vote veriat because it seemed like a bandwagon case to me.
On April 30 2012 11:53 Mordanis wrote: Frankly, I was simply reluctant to change my 3 times in about an hour. In reality, I was more for a lynch for either player than I was for a lynch of specifically one of them. At that point, Aces hadn't posted in about a day, so without knowing any justification for why he was lurking, he was a good candidate for a lynch even if there was a low probability of his being mafia just because he wasn't any help for the town. Hell, I'm still for lynching lurkers even if there is a low probability of them turning out scum because we need to work together. Lurking only hurts us. Also, if you look at the earlier parts of the thread, I was one of the first to put pressure on Veriat, which I don't see mafia doing.
After that little bit of defense, I'm very glad to have suspicion cast upon me. We need to have everyone defending themselves and looking at other players behavior. I'd like to think that I'm one of the least scummy posters, but I have no problems. I'll be able to post a bit more in a little bit, so bye for a few minutes :D
All I get is a scum vibe from you on this post. But i feel like i don't have enough info on you to make a significant case against you. Seeing how I take individual posts instead of looking at the context of the posts.
will post more when i have a goodnight sleep
Could you explain why you get this vibe rather than just saying "I'm getting a vibe"? Its sort of hard for me to convince you that I'm not mafia if I have no idea how you got the idea other than an incredibly vague statement that a post of mine seems scummy.
@ Golden When I was trying to secure a first day lynch, I wrote that we should all tell everyone whom we'd be willing to vote for, in order to maximize the probability of a lynch. I then went on to say that mafia would either be forced to say that they aren't willing to vote for one of their own or risk having a lynch kill one of their buddies the first day. Your behavior was exactly what I would have expected from mafia, and the only reason I haven't voted for you yet is because it was too typical. You posted a confusing jumble that seemed to say that you would vote for Veriat only if people could prove he wasn't scummier than Aces, but that you thought there was a good likelihood that he was mafia. This seems like the safest route of play to mafia to me. By saying that you think someone "may" be scum, but that you'd rather lynch someone else, you potentially gain 1) the ability to say you were right when it turns out that Veriat was mafia, and 2) a chance to save your scum buddy. Had Veriat been only a lurker, but still town, your play would only have been confusing. But in light of Veriat being mafia, your behavior just prior to the lynch seems very suspicious. I'd like to hear some kind of explanation of your reasoning, if you'd be so kind.
Just to reciprocate what I just suggested, the reason that I posted that question to Golden was because I think we should all be actively trying to establish our innocence. I want to be able to trust what Golden says, but his earlier explanation, was just a little... lacking. If everyone actively promotes their own innocence, the people who are telling the truth should be able to do a much better job than those who are lying. Simply put, my motivation is to get the whole team to work together without mistrust of innocents.
On May 01 2012 00:21 Mordanis wrote: @ Golden When I was trying to secure a first day lynch, I wrote that we should all tell everyone whom we'd be willing to vote for, in order to maximize the probability of a lynch. I then went on to say that mafia would either be forced to say that they aren't willing to vote for one of their own or risk having a lynch kill one of their buddies the first day. Your behavior was exactly what I would have expected from mafia, and the only reason I haven't voted for you yet is because it was too typical. You posted a confusing jumble that seemed to say that you would vote for Veriat only if people could prove he wasn't scummier than Aces, but that you thought there was a good likelihood that he was mafia. This seems like the safest route of play to mafia to me. By saying that you think someone "may" be scum, but that you'd rather lynch someone else, you potentially gain 1) the ability to say you were right when it turns out that Veriat was mafia, and 2) a chance to save your scum buddy. Had Veriat been only a lurker, but still town, your play would only have been confusing. But in light of Veriat being mafia, your behavior just prior to the lynch seems very suspicious. I'd like to hear some kind of explanation of your reasoning, if you'd be so kind.
See my filter. Sorry, i'm not going to answer it until you see that you're a little behind WhySoMuch on this one. He's already raised that point. Please do your reading. I'll copy and paste for you, then get to answering it.
On April 29 2012 07:07 O.Golden_ne wrote: @WhySoMuch.
You seem to be confusing reserved play as defensive play.
Since we have started i have maintained an outlook preferring to take in the whole picture and analyse play before making any judgment. I think my play is an asset to the town as it can be easy to slip into the habit of following the play in real time and perhaps missing key points. I classify this as a more reserved style than defensive.
To justify my position on a delayed vote switch to Veriat: since the beginning i have been pro-D1-lynch, it has been established that it is important in uncovering motives and gets the ball rolling in regards to seeing allegiances within the group. I did quite a bit of analysis on the players Nreekay324 and AcesAnoka finding them to be scummy, with my reserved playstyle i found that changing to a last minute change to Veriat was something i had to consider. I had to weigh up the benefits of the D1-lynch, and the groundwork that i had done on the previous two players.
Well we got a mafia with our first lynch, that's perfect! We all have some re-reading of Day 1 to do.
I welcome you coming after me WhySoMuch i have nothing to hide.
Golden
As for claiming i was right about Veriat, i don't think i've tried garnering any trust from anyone for the vote. I don't think the vote put me on anyones "town-list" (see WhySoMuch) AND i certainly don't think i've tried abusing anyone's trust (though under all this pressure i wonder particularly how trusted i should feel). What say i have in the voting discussion has come from my dissection of other peoples play. My vote was in line with my suspicions from day one, and given the dead-line i was facing and my Pro-D1-lynch attitude i found it fitting to lynch Veriat.
I actually just wanted you to expand on it a little bit, which you did nicely :D IDK if you posted before or after seeing my EBWOP, but I was just trying to eliminate most of the mistrust aimed at you, because I'm getting a pretty strong town read on you(even if it I think you made some bad decisions). If you don't mind having everyone analyze your behavior as potentially mafia, its your own fault if your novels are disregarded. :D
On May 01 2012 01:10 Mordanis wrote: I actually just wanted you to expand on it a little bit, which you did nicely :D IDK if you posted before or after seeing my EBWOP, but I was just trying to eliminate most of the mistrust aimed at you, because I'm getting a pretty strong town read on you(even if it I think you made some bad decisions).
I didn't see the EBWOP until i was done. But either way i got what you were trying to do. It's an important part of identifying peoples positions in the game, and i was happy to oblige. I want other people to realise that being questioned, isn't necessarily implying suspicion. The suspicion (in my humble opinion) comes in the response.
And on the bad decisions part, it was a tough spot. I had an hour or two with essentially the final say on a lynch as i thought i was the only one active.
On May 01 2012 01:10 Mordanis wrote: If you don't mind having everyone analyze your behavior as potentially mafia, its your own fault if your novels are disregarded. :D
It's a shame, i put 2 hours into the one today. I've read it several times
Jailbreaker, IDK what your planned contributions to this game are. You freely admit that your analysis is low-level/shallow, but you won't give any reason why. Do you not have the time? Are you not mentally capable? Are you afraid of getting shot? Are you afraid of getting lynched? All we know is that you had a grudge against yomi (who was killed by someone ostensibly with a grudge against him), and that you went from batshit-crazy paranoid to complete pacifist just before the vote, but you didn't change your vote from yomi. Also, you still haven't replied to any of the questions posed to you, including this one from 2 days ago.
I wrote this
WTF Jailbreaker You've completely switched your stance from Oh, the Drama! We're stuck on a spaceship with close quarters.
Lazermonkey - Day one is the most important day to analyze. Even though it is a noob game, work needs to be done.
Pure-SC2 - The no lynch is a terrible idea. Misslynch is collateral damage. It happens.
I'm not playing the hate mafia squad, I dont want to get thrown out the air lock on the first day.
and with all this nonsense talk about scheduals and lynch/no lynch, we're forgetting about the real issue here:
THERE'S MAFIA SCUM AMONG US.
I know it is day one, but does it have to be so passive? I don't want to vote for the wrong person based on three posts
and then making one of the first votes based on just a few hours of posts, now you are saying this
You switch to being against "bandwaggoning"? At this point, we need a full majority of 7 players to lynch. If you are against no-lynch, then you need to vote for one fo the 2 players whom most people are voting to lynch. It's fairly simple logic, so I'd ask you to either A) vote for someone who has a realistic chance of being elected lynched, or B) come out and tell us that you are against a lynch today. We have 3 hours and 45 minutes left, it's time to get ourselves organized. Hell, it's past time to get ourselves organized.
In response to this:
nonononononono water you guys doin? you planet all wrong.
Can't you see that other players are trying to rush people into a decision so fast?? Just because we dun have a majority vote, doesn't mean we should rush. Even though I voted for Yomi so fast in the game, i didn't rush. Just like what golden says, stay clam and dont panic. I know its fail logic right here, no apollo-gies here on my part.
Mordanis says: + Show Spoiler + and
+ Show Spoiler +
Sounds a bit to me like a rushing/get-on-the-band-wagon
On April 29 2012 00:25 Lazermonkey wrote: Noone is posting atm really. AcecAnoka havn't been posting in about a day, which could very well be due to IRL stuffs. But he is still my prime suspect.
##Vote: AcecAnoka
This vote may very well change tho, depending on the events in the evening!
Why are you voting for him? plz give a real reason.
I also feel like O.Golden_ne has the most influence over the votes with your "in depth analysis" and a galactic wall of texts.
On April 28 2012 18:26 Veriat wrote: Ok here are my thoughts on who are the scum:
The_Zen_Man nreekay324 Jailbreaker
The_Zen_Man You're stance on the "lynch no lynch" discussion has left me a little puzzled, and your overall playstyle seem fishy to me, so you're getting my vote.
nreekay324 All your posts just seem off and scummy. Many of them seem rushed or flawed, and you basically just jumped the bandwagon with your early vote on Why_So_Much. On a side note i did find Why_So_Much's playstyle kind of off, but i don't think he's scum, because then why would you vote for him?
Jailbreaker You've my number 3 due to consistent flaws in your previous posts.
Sounds more like regurgitation of O.Golden_ne's posts.
From what AcecAnoka has posted, I feel like we dont have enough info to point fingers at him. get off the bandwagon and look at other players posts just in general
And you never replied. All that post can really be construed as is incredibly low-level thought, or as an attempt to stall and disorganize the effort to lynch. IDK why a townie would try to stall a lynch though... Anyways, you have some explaining to do.
@Golden, see? I just wanted to be slightly more unified before casting serious suspicion around.
Greetings again, D2, here we go; Veriat flipping red. + Show Spoiler +
This is awesome for us, because not only did we already get one mafia, he was a roleblocker. I don’t know how many roles mafia get, but that was definitely a plus. Info from votes to who voted for him, there was; Veriat: (7): yomi, The_Zen_Man, WhySoMuch, Pure-SC2, Splinter[eP], Mordanis, O.Golden_ne. Important details include that veriat got the minimum 7/7 votes, and that the swing vote was a vote change golden made from aces to veriat. It seems unreasonable that golden was swing vote to knock veriat off just to gain town cred, as it’s not statistically favorable for mafia on a D1 lynch. For now, you have my town read Golden + Show Spoiler +
I can’t see mafia offing one of their own for street cred on a minimum vote, but it’s notable it’s a possibility
Looking at Veriat’s filter there’s not much to go off of. He has scum reads on thezenman, me, and jailbreaker. However, he makes no case against them, or (for zenman) a really weak case. In itself, there's so little posted it's hard to make anything of it.
Personally, I had him pegged as mafia, and I have re-evaluations to do. It’s confusing as to why the mafia chose yomi, he was a lurker, albeit with either good luck or gosu senses on veriat. However, it does give us something interesting, as one person did vote for him...
1) Only vote on yomi, and yomi was shot night cycle. 2) Posts don’t seem to have a lot of content, there’s a lot of summary and weak accusations/ questioning. 3) This quote in particular;
On April 29 2012 04:09 Jailbreaker wrote: nonononononono water you guys doin? you planet all wrong. Can't you see that other players are trying to rush people into a decision so fast?? Just because we dun have a majority vote, doesn't mean we should rush. Even though I voted for Yomi so fast in the game, i didn't rush. Just like what golden says, stay clam and dont panic. I know its fail logic right here, no apollo-gies here on my part.
This was a decent amount of time before the lynch-veriat train really started rolling, jailbreaker tries to advocate against it. He doesn’t provide any case in favor of Veriat however, and just side-steps the issue. 4) And then this,
On April 30 2012 16:13 Jailbreaker wrote: Since I voted to horribly wrong, I'm going to delay my vote until it is closer to the deadline.
It’s like jailbreaker wants to let other people make cases for him, so that he can choose the safest one to vote for and thus remain safe. 4) Was on Veriat’s “scum” list. I”ll defer to whysomuch for this; + Show Spoiler +
On April 28 2012 18:26 Veriat wrote: Ok here are my thoughts on who are the scum:
The_Zen_Man nreekay324 Jailbreaker
The_Zen_Man You're stance on the "lynch no lynch" discussion has left me a little puzzled, and your overall playstyle seem fishy to me, so you're getting my vote.
nreekay324 All your posts just seem off and scummy. Many of them seem rushed or flawed, and you basically just jumped the bandwagon with your early vote on Why_So_Much. On a side note i did find Why_So_Much's playstyle kind of off, but i don't think he's scum, because then why would you vote for him?
Jailbreaker You've my number 3 due to consistent flaws in your previous posts.
However JailBreaker, this is exactly how a newer mafia would do it, he just throws his name out there with some lame, non existent reasoning. I am moving Jailbreaker to the mafia side for this alone.
On April 30 2012 06:46 Pure-SC2 wrote: nreekay324 - His filter reads suspicious to me. I see a vote for WhySoMuch, followed by an unbolded unvote. He then leaves it at that. He makes no comment against the most suspicious person in the game so far, who was proven to be mafia. So he votes for WhySoMuch, and has FoS against Golden, Me, Yomi and The_Zen_Man (incidently all of which voted for Veriat). Very suspicious.
I should clarify, I hadn’t intended to neither leave it at whysomuch nor unvoted, but I was unable to return to the deadline. (I’ll look at whysomuch again later in this post). Apparently my unvote wasn’t registered so I didn’t get targeted by nova(looks like aces didnt get modkilled either, so I would have been okay anyway?) When I did find time to check up, it was in the night cycle and it seemed fruitless to post anything then. In regards to what you said, I’ll point out that in one of my posts I state that my FoS ; you and golden were related to yomi, as in if yomi was mafia then I would pursue you two. As he isn’t, the point is moot. Also, if you looked carefully, I made those FoS before yomi even voted for veriat.
To this;
On April 30 2012 17:58 Pure-SC2 wrote: Why was yomi killed?
Mafia hit people for a reason. What was the reason behind yomi getting whacked? Well in the course of day 1, other than getting annoyed by WhySoMuch, he had genuine suspicions of two people, Veriat and nreekay324.
We know one of them was scum, and nreekay324 is my strongest scum read (refer to my night post just before the deadline). If you were the two remaining mafia, and you had seem yomi lead the lynch on one of your scum buddies, and he had found you suspicious, wouldn't that make him a good target?
Interesting points related to the hit on yomi: - After the first day post, nreekay324 states "looks like my suspicions about yomi may have been wrong though..." - this is interesting in that if nreekay324 knows yomi is about to die and flip town it's a good way to clear himself from his earlier stated suspicions of yomi. - People who found yomi suspicious: Jailbreaker, AcesAnoka, nreekay324
I said that because yomi voted for veriat in the very beginning. I thought it was unlikely yomi would have voted veriat in the beginning, because why choose a scum buddy when there were other lurkers to vote? Yomi was highly suspicious, and deserved this suspicion. He was lurking, HARD, and throwing out ##votes for other people to analyze. He could have easily been switching between townies, trying to confuse the town conversation. I’ve been thinking of why they would shoot yomi (I have an idea, as described later), but I don’t know what to say about it “clearing” me. I can deny it, saying that it’d be foolish because it doesn’t clear me, it really incriminates me (I have nothing original now that yomi is green), but then we’ll start throwing WIFOM around and we’ll get nowhere. If you think it’s enough to vote for me, well there’s that.
Your first half analysis of whysomuch was rolling towards #FOSwhysomuch, but you conclude that he’s more likely an overly aggressive towny in your opinion. Is this because he voted for you/ is suspicious of you? It seems you’re trying to discredit him and his earlier posts, and as such his suspicions of you. I have my own opinions, but I was wondering if this was the point you were making.
In regards to my case against yomi, I don’t know what you mean by squirmy. But I would find it agreeable to say that when yomi flipped green, my case got shit on. There’s another post later, where I state that you and puresc2’s suspicions were really based on my suspicions of yomi being mafia, and since he wasn’t I no longer have suspicions against you two in regards to that.
Re-evaluations @puresc2, golden -no more suspicions
This jumps out at me. Why bring this up, right after the mafia lynch? This may be what golden was referring to as “the champion” of veriat’s lynch. + Show Spoiler +
On April 29 2012 08:15 WhySoMuch wrote: Well this game just became a lot more simple.
The_Zen_Man Splinter Pure_SC Mordanis Myself
Look the best for their voting yesterday
Also, he made a case against veriat and helped push his lynch. But quick-scum/town lists based on one or two ideas is messy. It’s more beneficial to take time looking at specifics and make cases (unless you’re mentioning something in a sort of passing way that you don’t want to forget), and then organize that info into lists of scum/town. It’s very confusing play,maybe just scummy town play.
I’m removing my suspicions from him now, for the case he made against Veriat. Its decent enough, and I don’t see any reason he would have, as mafia, to make such an extended case against Veriat, which contributed to the bandwagon to get veriat lynched.
A number of arguments have been made, and not much to add to them because he hasn’t been posting much. He, like other lurkers, should be pressured D2. What got the successful D1 lynch was from pressuring lurkers (yomi called out veriat for this very reason). We need to keep this up.
It’d be detrimental to name players, so to “all blue roles”. As I was reviewing yomi’s filter, something popped out to me;
On April 29 2012 08:14 yomi wrote: Night time is generally not a great time to post. Let the blue players do what they want and don't give mafia any hints on who they should kill.
This is only a thought, but the mafia may have been hoping for a lucky blue snipe. It makes sense, because yomi was semi-lurking (blue roles tend to play more cautiously to protect the blue role). It’s not concrete, but it’s a possibility. We’re already ahead of the mafia, so we don’t need blues to do anything reckless (i.e. claim)
##vote: AcesAnoka ##FOS: Jailbreaker I'll do my best to check this/ stay active more. I understand we need to push the lead we have on the mafia.
On April 30 2012 20:57 The_Zen_Man wrote: First of all, lazermonkey, i want to say that i am not with you on the Nova part in your post. I don't trust him, he is always posting these weird post about people dying and stuff, could be a scum move (lol)
Secondly, i do share your opinion on WhySoMuch. I have been suspicious of him from the start, and his latest games has not helped him. Below i will make my case against him.
On April 26 2012 22:51 The_Zen_Man wrote: Hey guys!
This is my first game of maifa, but i have been following other games a bit. I also think that the "no lynch" option could prove useful early in the game to avoid misslynch. The other game i was following misslynched on the first day simply because they didn't have enough information.
Someone already pointed this out and I've already stated my position but I'd like to take it a step further,
I find this post very wolfy, more so than Varient or however you spell his name who said the same thing essentially, because you aren't thinking deeper. You say in the other game they mislynched on the first day because they didn't have enough information, but how do we expect to gain information if we "No Lynch"? Day 2 will essentially be a repeat of day 1.
Also, Voting early and often leads to profit,
##VOTE: The_Zen_Man
hope i did that right
This is what WhySoMuch posted when he voted for me the first time. He says that he found my post very "Wolfy", but pays almost no attention to Veriat, with the explanation that i am not thinking deep enough. To show you how much "deeper" Veriat post was, here it is
On April 26 2012 22:55 Veriat wrote: Hello Everybody!
I love the theme and i'm very excited to get this show on the road! Like many here this is my first game so i'm looking forward to a good time with you fine lads (and lasses)
As Pure-SC2 said, i share his opinion on the "no lynch" vote since this is a game full of newbies like myself, and there isn't all that information up in the air the first day, which we can use to base good lynches on.
With that said, Game on and let's get the discussion going!
My post before might not have been the deepest post, but this is not much better. I think that the "deeper" part was just an excuse to push away attention from his scum buddy and towards me.
1st underline: we gain information by lynching someone, it's not an "if", I am 100% sure we gain knowledge by lynching anyone today. And if your a townie you should realize this, as of yet no one has implied we don't gain knowledge by lynching someone except you.
2nd underline: We don't ever lynch someone just cause, that just doesn't happen. We lay out our views and decide who seems most likely to be a mafia and we vote them.
The part about this post that seemed strange to me is " And if your a townie you should realize this". Im not sure how being a mafia or town matters if a have some information.
Then, after having posted with about 5 post saying how i am "Wolf", he unvotes me but says that he still haves me as scum. Maybe he realized that no one took his suspicioins against me seriously and decided to give up, but still have me as a possible scum if he needed one.
On April 28 2012 09:35 WhySoMuch wrote: Town: Splinter LazerMonkey Mordanis
Mafia: The_Zen_Man Nreekay
He then proceds to vote for me anyway, with not much more explanation than this. Mordanis posted a case against Veriat just a few post before this one. Maybe he tried to direct attention towards me instead of his scum buddy. Veriat then also votes for me, probably to try a bandwagon on me.
On April 28 2012 18:26 Veriat wrote: Ok here are my thoughts on who are the scum:
The_Zen_Man nreekay324 Jailbreaker
The_Zen_Man You're stance on the "lynch no lynch" discussion has left me a little puzzled, and your overall playstyle seem fishy to me, so you're getting my vote.
nreekay324 All your posts just seem off and scummy. Many of them seem rushed or flawed, and you basically just jumped the bandwagon with your early vote on Why_So_Much. On a side note i did find Why_So_Much's playstyle kind of off, but i don't think he's scum, because then why would you vote for him?
Jailbreaker You've my number 3 due to consistent flaws in your previous posts.
This post was really not saying much about anything, but there is something interesting here. He writes that "On a side note i did find Why_So_Much's playstyle kind of off, but i don't think he's scum, because then why would you vote for him?". This might be Veriat trying to back up his scum buddy, and take away suspicions from people.
On April 28 2012 18:29 Pure-SC2 wrote: I'm getting an off read on WhySoMuch, I don't really understand it so just going to post my thoughts in case someone else can make something out of it.
So we're playing a newbie game here, for people who've played 3 or less games. yet here he is so ingrained in his Wolves/Villages thing that he can't even proof read his posts to change it to reflect the fact we're playing Mafia here, on the TL mafia forums, in which everyone else is referencing mafia/scum and townies? How many games do you have to have played to get it that ingrained in your head? And after its been mentioned by a few people, why wouldn't he make any effort to do something about it?
Yet his posts seem well thought out and carefully worded.
He goes on and asks the most basic fundamental questions that can be answered by using the tiniest bit of logical thought (how to quote posts and view more posts on a page), which doesn't line up with the fact that his posts seem to be well thought out and logical.
I don't trust him. It's like he's playing this naive, simpleton role here so that he won't come under suspicion.
It's the same game, Y'all call it Mafia, We call it Werewolf. It's the same principal and I'm really confused why people are so caught up on it. This is newb game for people that have played 3 or less games ON THIS SITE. That is why I signed up for it, to get a feel for THIS SITE. So many things are different, such as requiring a Majority to lynch someone, that I think it was best to play a game like this before trying out the non-newb games. I have played over 100 games on the other forum using wolve/villager lingo, so to answer your question about 100 games to get it ingrained.
I am making an effort, every time you see the word Mafia or Town most likely I had to go back and erase wolf/villager. However sometimes I forget.
I didn't ask how to quote posts, I asked how to quote multiple posts, because on the other site, I can click a button and it will multi-quote for me. THis forum did not have it, and I was wondering what people usually do instead. As for the "All" button I probably should have figured that out, but again, on the other forum there is an option to change posts per page from 25 to 100.
On April 28 2012 18:52 The_Zen_Man wrote: Yes, but on the other hand, that might be the point. Veriat might have written that so that people would stop suspecting him. But this is all theories. He was lurking for quite a while, and when people start suspecting him he suddenly shows up with some accusations. I find that very suspicious. For these reason, im going to vote for him.
##vote: Veriat
Also Veriat, as Pure-SC2 said, please tell me what about me is "fishy".
Whysomuch, could you give me a explanation to your vote?
I have explained my vote a gazillion times already. Just because I vote you again doesn't mean I have to have different reasons than before.
I am confused though, because Veriant looks extremely bad right now. Like all his reads are justs sponges and he has no original thought, so I'm pretty sure he's a wolf. Which means you likely aren't a wolf.
##vote: Veriat
This is also very interesting. This is what WhySoMuch posted after i put up a possible Veriat and WhySoMuch connection. I think that he saw the only way out of it was too vote his scum buddy veriat, that way when Veriat flips Mafia he would be shown as a good townie.
After that he switches votes two times, back to Veriat again. This was maybe because he tried to save his scum buddy in one last effort. But when he realized it wasn't going to happen he changed again, so that he might look like a good townie.
He then haves a unusually lot of activity during the night. He explains this with that he is probably the Mafia target, but i don't get that. There were plenty of people(me including) that played a part in Veriat being lynched. He also makes this post:
On April 28 2012 18:26 Veriat wrote: Ok here are my thoughts on who are the scum:
The_Zen_Man nreekay324 Jailbreaker
The_Zen_Man You're stance on the "lynch no lynch" discussion has left me a little puzzled, and your overall playstyle seem fishy to me, so you're getting my vote.
nreekay324 All your posts just seem off and scummy. Many of them seem rushed or flawed, and you basically just jumped the bandwagon with your early vote on Why_So_Much. On a side note i did find Why_So_Much's playstyle kind of off, but i don't think he's scum, because then why would you vote for him?
Jailbreaker You've my number 3 due to consistent flaws in your previous posts.
Just gonna do some spew analysis first. This is about the only post of use that he wrote.
The_Zen_Man is pretty much clear forever, he made a case on Veriat when he could have chosen a lot of other people and Veriat then goes and makes him his #1 wolf read and later makes a case on him. You just don't see this being mafia/mafia with newer mafia
nreekay I think is also spewed cleared here as well i think. If your gonna put a mafia in your mafia reads, it's not gonna be like this with qualifiers and extra useless info in my opinion.
However JailBreaker, this is exactly how a newer mafia would do it, he just throws his name out there with some lame, non existent reasoning. I am moving Jailbreaker to the mafia side for this alone.
He writes that i am pretty much clear forever, which might be to remove any suspicions i might have. I think everyone knows that i am a town, as my case on Veriat turned a few players around. You are just stating the obvious, and trying to look better in my eyes.
WhySoMuch then proceds to try and start a case against golden, with still little to no basis for this at all.
WhySoMuch is looking very suspicious to me, and i would like to hear the other players thoughts.[/QUOTE]
1) The reason I called you out and not Veriat was already stated (atleast I think) in the thread. You automatically registered that the only reason a town was lynched d1 in the other game was "Simply because they didn't have enough information". This is showing poor thought process, because there could be a number of things of why a town was lynched. That was why you got pressure and he didn't
2) Just because you saw a "connection" between us, doesn't mean I'm gonna act on it in either role. I did not care you saw a "connection", It had no affect on my actions. Why would 1 poster who I had suspicion on affect my actions? That doesn't make sense
3) When I voted unvoted and voted again, no one was certain who would be lynched. If I had kept my vote on Aces the vote would have been 5-3 Aces and a likely Aces lynch or No lynch. So saying that I was forced to switch once I knew Veriat was lynched does not describe my vote (it describes Golden's).
4) I had no idea you would be pressuring me, so I would have no reason to put you at the top of my Town list to "get you not to suspect me". Once again your not looking at the time frame of posts. I don't care how to view me, and I'm not trying t o look better in your eyes by having you as my #1 town
nreekay, why are you voting for Aces for lurking? Splinter has been lurking at least as hard, and neither have had too much content they've put out. @Aces @Splinter: Post more. We've already lynched for lurking, and I for one would rather avoid doing so again if we can avoid it. That being said, I still stand by my earlier arguments that lynching lurkers is better than no lynch because lurkers only hurt the town. Don't put us in that position.
I'm also against lynching Splinter as long as he is able to contribute when he has the time. I can't say that I love the idea of having all of one person's content in 1 post, but as long as Splinter helps, I currently don't see him as being mafia, so I don't see any reason to lynch him. Anyways, plenty of suspicion has been leveled at Jailbreaker, and he is so far responding in the same way as Veriat, by lurking and only posting vague, shallow analysis. I'm going to be going to work in a few hours, and if Jailbreaker hasn't defended himself at all, I will likely vote for him, in hopes that if we start voting early we won't have a gigantic rush at the end of the cycle like last time.
Jailbreaker, if you do respond, why do you seem to be proud of your admittedly shallow analysis (twice you said you wouldn't apologize for it). What is this supposed to do to help the town? I really don't understand what you're doing, and its coming off as very suspicious.
On May 01 2012 06:31 Mordanis wrote: Can I take Ace's spot, and keep my own?[/joke]
Damn you! I thought you were someone who wanted to replace for a sec D: Edit: Replacement found In case you are using reverse psychology, No, anyone who is in the game, has access to help PMs, or has the link to Obs QT is not allowed to replace unless specially determined by Artanis.. Welcome Marvellosity, and thanks for replacing Aces!
Hi guys! Although I have played 5 games, I'm amassing a solid reputation for lynching townies as town (not good).
I've vaguely looked at the thread before, but I'm going to have to have a serious readthrough and come back to you.
Two things: the lynch on Veriat was obviously a good result, and made more interesting by the fact it was barely achieved. What I have noticed from my glancethrough is that some of you are reading more into the votes than you should be. Newbie games are absolutely notorious for connection play. Anyway, I will draw my own conclusions from the vote and get back to you.
Second of all, I am not AcesAnoka. You may think his posting is terrible as hell or that he was scummy and lurky or whatever, but please approach my posting with an open mind. If you're gonna call me scum, call me scum because of what I've done.
Good to hear from you nreekay324. Splinter, you need to provide us with some original analysis.
Marvellosity - welcome to the game. We're going to need you to go through everything as much as possible and give us your reads. I appreciate it's hard coming in late like this, and AcesAnoka has done you no favours in the things he has posted.
The_Zen_Man - I have 100% town certainty on you. I liked your case, and there is definitely some merit there, but there are also a few areas that do point WhySoMuch as town. I have a very mixed read on him and regardless of what his actual alignment is, I don't trust him or his posting style at all.
I'm going to go through the Jailbreaker files in more detail as I've had a scum read on him since very early on.
On top of that, it's really over to Splinter and Marvellosity to contribute.
Even if he doesn't contribute, we aren't lynching him today or tomorrow, or prolly even the next day.
I don't know everyone's obsession with getting rid of "lurkers", yes it's fine d1 but after that, if people clear themselves then they shouldn't be lynched even if they aren't big contributors. I'm not encouraging to stop posting because he seems like a really good town to have, but if he can't cause of irl or whatever, we still aren't lynching him.
WhySoMuch - you don't speak for the town. So far at least 3 people have found your actions suspicious, so if you really are town you need to start thinking a bit more about how you're playing and what you're actually doing to help the town.
... Then the mafia would only have to lurk, and the active posters would kill themselves off while the scum kill off another one each night. Just two iterations of this, and its down to 4 town and 2 mafia. To be clear, I'm not going to say that we should automatically lynch whoever posts the least, but if we have to decide between lynching a lurker or someone who contributes, I'll go with the lurker. If the person we lynch is mafia, we did well either way. But if we mislynch, I'd much rather lose a townie who contributes little than a townie who contributes a lot.
Also, Hi Marvellosity! gl catching up with everything, hope you post some new insight!
Alright, I've had a read of some of the thread. Next step will be the filters ^^
I'm glad people have generally grasped that someone voting for Veriat didn't make them town necessarily. The lynch was a very interesting one as it was achieved with nothing to spare. Basically that's 2 options: scum did everything they could do prevent Veriat's lynch and failed. This would imply the people not voting Veriat are scum.
The other option is that scum (either one or both) decided to go for mucho town cred by bussing Veriat. It's impossible to say at this point. The only other thing that stood out in conjunction with this is that Veriat threw suspicion at zen (possible omgus), jailbreaker, and nreekay - the last two who were not on the Veriat wagon. My feelings on this are that scum would be unlikely to go all-out to save Veriat by not voting him AND throw suspicion on their own kind at the same time - that seems like an unnecessary risk.
At the moment, a prime scummy candidate would seem to be Jailbreaker. I will have to look at his filter to see if a case should be made, but the impression is he just posts useless crap. Whether he's a bad townie or scummyscumscum at this stage is somewhat unclear.
The second person I am most interested in is WhySoMuch. There were a couple of things that stood out at me just browsing the thread:
1) lots of vote changes. Doesn't have to be alignment indicative, but it stood out 2) The only quote from someone I actually have written down - "Town reads are more important than mafia reads". Interesting - I thought we were here to lynch scum. He expressed the same opinion AGAIN, and then listed his own town reads. Unless I am mistaken, this also happened at night. Sounds like it could be town-read fishing -> mafia kills. Lists of town reads, especially at night, are bad, mmkay? Like I said, they only give mafia targets. If you have people you think are pretty likely town - good!! You don't need to tell all of us. Do you really think that saying "blabla seems extremely townie" is going to convince anyone that person is town if they didn't think so already? 3) He called out golden very quickly saying that if Veriat was scum, golden was scum. Say whaaaaaaaat? So someone casts the deciding vote to lynch a scum and they're scum? I mean, it's possible, sure, but that's an incredible leap to make. It does point out that Whysomuch is extremely aware that scum could be bussing scum to try to gain towncred. Related to this is that he points out himself that he looks good for voting Veriat. So he looks awesomely townie for lynching the scum and golden, the guy who actually got the scum lynched, looks scummy. k.
Anyway, reading the filters is an even bigger task than reading the thread, but I will work on it diligently. There's some food for thought in the meanwhile.
##Vote: Jailbreaker I've already explained why, but I'll do some more. Jailbreaker's attempted stall of the vote came right when momentum was shifting from Aces to Veriat. I find this suspicious. But even if he flips town, I won't be too sad because his play has been very low-level and perhaps even toxic to the town. Off to work, hope things start to move, because the last vote got very stressful. In fact, this is how the lead-up to the last vote made me feel
On May 01 2012 07:42 Pure-SC2 wrote: WhySoMuch - you don't speak for the town. So far at least 3 people have found your actions suspicious, so if you really are town you need to start thinking a bit more about how you're playing and what you're actually doing to help the town.
I am trying to keep the village from wasting a day talking about why someone is a mafia because they don't post when they are likely town. Now, if you believe Splinter is a Mafia because of reasons outside of "he hasn't posted in x amount of time" then I'm all for posting that. But afaik, he is a Town and very likely town, so soft-pushing him because he isn't here is pointless.
You may not like me talking in absoletes but to say I'm not helping the town is pretty lol.
I'm confident Splinter is a town, and therefore I don't believe he should be lynched, happy?
On May 01 2012 07:50 Mordanis wrote: ... Then the mafia would only have to lurk, and the active posters would kill themselves off while the scum kill off another one each night. Just two iterations of this, and its down to 4 town and 2 mafia. To be clear, I'm not going to say that we should automatically lynch whoever posts the least, but if we have to decide between lynching a lurker or someone who contributes, I'll go with the lurker. If the person we lynch is mafia, we did well either way. But if we mislynch, I'd much rather lose a townie who contributes little than a townie who contributes a lot.
Also, Hi Marvellosity! gl catching up with everything, hope you post some new insight!
And this is where we disagree. In your scenario, I would vote for the person I feel is most likely mafia. Yes the lurker would look worse to start, but if he made a vote that they don't make as a mafia, then I'm gonna vote for the other guy. I can contribute all I want, I would do the same a Mafia. I don't think all 3 mafia are going to be lurkers.
The second person I am most interested in is WhySoMuch. There were a couple of things that stood out at me just browsing the thread:
1) lots of vote changes. Doesn't have to be alignment indicative, but it stood out 2) The only quote from someone I actually have written down - "Town reads are more important than mafia reads". Interesting - I thought we were here to lynch scum. He expressed the same opinion AGAIN, and then listed his own town reads. Unless I am mistaken, this also happened at night. Sounds like it could be town-read fishing -> mafia kills. Lists of town reads, especially at night, are bad, mmkay? Like I said, they only give mafia targets. If you have people you think are pretty likely town - good!! You don't need to tell all of us. Do you really think that saying "blabla seems extremely townie" is going to convince anyone that person is town if they didn't think so already? 3) He called out golden very quickly saying that if Veriat was scum, golden was scum. Say whaaaaaaaat? So someone casts the deciding vote to lynch a scum and they're scum? I mean, it's possible, sure, but that's an incredible leap to make. It does point out that Whysomuch is extremely aware that scum could be bussing scum to try to gain towncred. Related to this is that he points out himself that he looks good for voting Veriat. So he looks awesomely townie for lynching the scum and golden, the guy who actually got the scum lynched, looks scummy. k.
Anyway, reading the filters is an even bigger task than reading the thread, but I will work on it diligently. There's some food for thought in the meanwhile.
2nd point) Yes we are here to lynch scum, but the only way mafias win is by mislynches. By establishing our town reads, we take away mislynches. You see the same names popping up on town lists and those people all of a sudden become unlynchable, thereby taking away mislynches. The point of having town reads isn't to convince other people to have the same town reads, it's that if everyone makes a town reads list, you have a group of players that will show up on multiple lists, thereby increasing our chances of hitting a mafia.
3rd point) No it isn't, he was forced to make the vote. If he didn't it would automatically be mafia/mafia no questions asked. He put Veriat on his mafia list and was "Happy to vote him". He was also Pro-D1 lynch in the discussion earlier, and if he didn't vote that would go against his policy. No this doesn't automatically mean he is a mafia, but awarding town points to Golden is wrong.
Yeah, I do look better than Golden, So does Splinter so does PureSC so does Mordanis. The deciding vote there is not what got Veriat lynched, and the town successfully twisted Golden's arm to vote a mafia, that may not be the right phrase, as Golden could be a town in which case we still "forced" him to vote Veriat, but Golden would do that anyways in that scenario, but if he were mafia and the votes were say 5-3, then golden would not have had to switch.
The second person I am most interested in is WhySoMuch. There were a couple of things that stood out at me just browsing the thread:
1) lots of vote changes. Doesn't have to be alignment indicative, but it stood out 2) The only quote from someone I actually have written down - "Town reads are more important than mafia reads". Interesting - I thought we were here to lynch scum. He expressed the same opinion AGAIN, and then listed his own town reads. Unless I am mistaken, this also happened at night. Sounds like it could be town-read fishing -> mafia kills. Lists of town reads, especially at night, are bad, mmkay? Like I said, they only give mafia targets. If you have people you think are pretty likely town - good!! You don't need to tell all of us. Do you really think that saying "blabla seems extremely townie" is going to convince anyone that person is town if they didn't think so already? 3) He called out golden very quickly saying that if Veriat was scum, golden was scum. Say whaaaaaaaat? So someone casts the deciding vote to lynch a scum and they're scum? I mean, it's possible, sure, but that's an incredible leap to make. It does point out that Whysomuch is extremely aware that scum could be bussing scum to try to gain towncred. Related to this is that he points out himself that he looks good for voting Veriat. So he looks awesomely townie for lynching the scum and golden, the guy who actually got the scum lynched, looks scummy. k.
Anyway, reading the filters is an even bigger task than reading the thread, but I will work on it diligently. There's some food for thought in the meanwhile.
2nd point) Yes we are here to lynch scum, but the only way mafias win is by mislynches. By establishing our town reads, we take away mislynches. You see the same names popping up on town lists and those people all of a sudden become unlynchable, thereby taking away mislynches. The point of having town reads isn't to convince other people to have the same town reads, it's that if everyone makes a town reads list, you have a group of players that will show up on multiple lists, thereby increasing our chances of hitting a mafia.
3rd point) No it isn't, he was forced to make the vote. If he didn't it would automatically be mafia/mafia no questions asked. He put Veriat on his mafia list and was "Happy to vote him". He was also Pro-D1 lynch in the discussion earlier, and if he didn't vote that would go against his policy. No this doesn't automatically mean he is a mafia, but awarding town points to Golden is wrong.
To the bold - what is this nonsense? People don't become unlynchable for turning up on lists, that's absurd. People are unlynchable when they're dead. If a couple of people have someone down as a town-read and I think he's scum, is that going to stop me making a case on them? No, of course it isn't. You don't find mafia because people turn up on lists. You find mafia because they are scummy, simple as that.
On May 01 2012 10:00 WhySoMuch wrote: to add to your 3rd point:
Yeah, I do look better than Golden, So does Splinter so does PureSC so does Mordanis. The deciding vote there is not what got Veriat lynched, and the town successfully twisted Golden's arm to vote a mafia, that may not be the right phrase, as Golden could be a town in which case we still "forced" him to vote Veriat, but Golden would do that anyways in that scenario, but if he were mafia and the votes were say 5-3, then golden would not have had to switch.
So in the scenario where scum decides to bus Veriat, is it not more likely that they do so in the midst of the voting rather than at the end? golden wasn't 'forced' to vote for anyone, he voted who he wanted to. He could have made a non-vote earlier on in the day on someone like aces (me) or whoever was suspicious at the time.
You seem to have a preconceived notion of how people 'should' play - well, people don't necessarily play like that. You're inventing narratives that to you sound likely, but they are not necessarily true, or even the likeliest narrative.
Further to the town-reads point - if however many people believe someone is town, and a case is made against that person and those people are not swayed, then they aren't getting lynched whether they are on a stupid list or not.
On May 01 2012 10:00 WhySoMuch wrote: to add to your 3rd point:
Yeah, I do look better than Golden, So does Splinter so does PureSC so does Mordanis. The deciding vote there is not what got Veriat lynched, and the town successfully twisted Golden's arm to vote a mafia, that may not be the right phrase, as Golden could be a town in which case we still "forced" him to vote Veriat, but Golden would do that anyways in that scenario, but if he were mafia and the votes were say 5-3, then golden would not have had to switch.
I'm gonna carry on, because I really must make you think about things properly.
So this post says - in a scenario that didn't happen (5-3), golden may have acted in a different manner. Right.
Further to this, in the scenario that actually occurred, a townie golden would vote for Veriat, and in your world, a scummy one would. Thus golden would be voting for Veriat whichever alignment he is.
Further further to this, a townie golden would practically always vote for Veriat in that situation to force a lynch, whereas a scummy golden could potentially take the option to force a no-lynch, saving his scumbuddy.
To the bold - what is this nonsense? People don't become unlynchable for turning up on lists, that's absurd. People are unlynchable when they're dead. If a couple of people have someone down as a town-read and I think he's scum, is that going to stop me making a case on them? No, of course it isn't. You don't find mafia because people turn up on lists. You find mafia because they are scummy, simple as that. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So in the scenario where scum decides to bus Veriat, is it not more likely that they do so in the midst of the voting rather than at the end? golden wasn't 'forced' to vote for anyone, he voted who he wanted to. He could have made a non-vote earlier on in the day on someone like aces (me) or whoever was suspicious at the time.
You seem to have a preconceived notion of how people 'should' play - well, people don't necessarily play like that. You're inventing narratives that to you sound likely, but they are not necessarily true, or even the likeliest narrative.
When they show up on multiple lists it effectively means they become unlynchable because no one wants to vote them, everyone thinks they are town. If you disagree, and think they are mafia, great, write about it and maybe people will see what your seeing. But you do find Mafia from effectively eliminating players that aren't mafia. I'm not the best at explaining it, but I promise you Town Reads > Mafia Reads. Trust me on this one.
Yes, he was "forced" or all his posts leading up to it don't make sense. He called Veriat a mafia before he had a vote. He never changed that read, now he also called Aces(you) a mafia, so he kept his vote on Aces(you). But when it became apparent that it was either lynching Veriat or No lynching, he has to vote his mafia read or else his play doesn't make sense.
This doesn't make him scum though. But you are saying it makes him look good, and it doesn't.
I do have a preconceived notion of how people should play, But it's a notion that has logical backing and logical progression to it. If it wasn't Golden, say it was someone that was Pro-No Lynch and didn't have a read on Veriat, then not voting makes sense in that scenario. But because it was Golden, he had to make that vote. Whether, he is town or mafia, he makes that vote either way. And my suspicion is raised on how he made that vote, but that has been beaten to the ground and not going anywhere, so we moved on.
No, no-one wants to vote for them because they believe they are townie, not because they are on a stupid list. Jesus christ. Yes, it helps you to find mafia if you have town reads. But that's an individual thing. To make other people see your point of view if they don't, you'd have to make a "town case" which is getting ludicrous.
I also did not say it made golden looked good, I said your assertion that he was scum (your words were something like "If veriat is scum, i believe golden is scum") which I totally dissected in my last post.
As it appears I will fail in my bid to make you see common sense, I shall stop this back and forth with you.
On May 01 2012 10:36 marvellosity wrote: No, no-one wants to vote for them because they believe they are townie, not because they are on a stupid list. Jesus christ. Yes, it helps you to find mafia if you have town reads. But that's an individual thing. To make other people see your point of view if they don't, you'd have to make a "town case" which is getting ludicrous.
I also did not say it made golden looked good, I said your assertion that he was scum (your words were something like "If veriat is scum, i believe golden is scum") which I totally dissected in my last post.
As it appears I will fail in my bid to make you see common sense, I shall stop this back and forth with you.
Yeah, this is pointless.
You haven't read my posts, and the topic has already been beaten to the ground.
He makes the vote either way, but it's HOW he made the vote that makes it weird. but like i said its already been beaten.
If you focus more on Town reads than mafia reads, the game becomes easier. Free advice, take it or leave it.
By making a Town List, other people can see your thought process. By allowing others to see your thought process, you become easier to clear. That is our job as town, become clear. If we do that, we win 100% of the time.
With everyone making a Town List, it then forces Mafia to also make Town list's. This poses a dilemna to them because they know they have to "lie" in some cases and call their teammates Town. If there is a lack of thought process in putting that person as a town, it then incriminates them. If they don't put mafia in there town list, they will eventually have to vote each other. Both of these equaling town profit.
I'm glad we've had this invigorating discussion. I highly doubt you are a mafia though, so good has come out of it.
@marvellosity regards to your discussion with WhySoMuch:
On May 01 2012 10:36 marvellosity wrote: As it appears I will fail in my bid to make you see common sense, I shall stop this back and forth with you.
The worst part for me is that i get a town read from him, i've wasted a lot of my input trying to get his head in the game.
Thoughts...
Here are some queries i have before i do another mind-splurge on this thread.
1. Nreekay324
You posted a decent argument against Jailbreaker in a spoiler on your D1 Summary post. Nreekay324's Filter What would it take to change your vote from AcesAnoka (marvellosity) in the same post, to Jailbreaker? I feel like your argument against Jailbreaker looks stronger than this one against AcesAnoka (marvellosity):
A number of arguments have been made, and not much to add to them because he hasn’t been posting much. He, like other lurkers, should be pressured D2. What got the successful D1 lynch was from pressuring lurkers (yomi called out veriat for this very reason). We need to keep this up.
2. marvellosity
You've shown a much deeper level of perception that AcesAnoka ever did, and it's exactly what you'll need to keep doing to stay in the game. I feel if you can maintain few solid posts with little contradiction you may have earnt your character's standing in the game. You've certainly grilled WhySoMuch on a fair portion of his logic, however i can't help but wonder if this is scapegoating because you do need to establish yourself within the team and he is certainly an unusual character. I have my own thoughts on him which i've shared, and i think he holds a unique position within the group as a finger pointer now that yomi's voice has been nullified.
3. Mordanis
I want your analysis of Nreekay324's connections to other players.
4. WhySoMuch
Can you explain Jailbreakers connections to other players in the group in a list? thx
Can you explain Jailbreakers connections to other players in the group in a list? thx
I think too many assumptions have to made and there's still a lot of uncertainty in today's lynch even though Jail does seem like the leading candidate. If he is lynched, then I will go back and look at connections.
Yes, sir, mister Golden, sir First things first, I just realized that nreekay = Enrique... Yeah... Anyways Nreekay has only really posted three things which can be evaluated, and of course I can analyze his vote. I'll begin with his first analytical post.
It was an impulse post. When I saw that yomi voted for him, it triggered me. I played with yomi in a previous game, and I had to endure the aftermath of an overly aggressive play he made (more on this later). My reason was obviously unsubstantiated, + Show Spoiler +
I’ve alluded to before, and I’d like to state explicitly that I think no-lynch is a generally bad policy, with little exception. Other people have (whysomuch, lazermonkey) have made some points about this. It is very unlikely that by the deadline that town won’t have high-scum read targets to vote for. Sure, a mis-lynch would suck, but it’s not like we’re voting randomly. If there really aren’t clear scum choices, than we should no-lynch. This leads me to the next point, which is why I really think no-lynch is important.
More discusion = more info = better for town. If the town’s general consensus flirts too much with no-lynch, then it will encourage lurking.
On April 27 2012 22:48 The_Zen_Man wrote: If we vote for a nolynch there will still be people, like yourself, that would oppose that and vote for a person instead. We can use that information to decide everyone standings. The time before deadline will also give us information, as we can observe how people act then.
The quality / quantity of information can vary drastically with a town that has a lot of votes and cases and from a town that has some votes, a few cases, and some no-lynches. It goes beyond who voted for who, it’s who voted for who and why they did so. People have to build cases to vote for people, and cases = more discussion.
People have mentioned meta-game elements, specifically yomi’s quick-post. Specifically, Golden + Show Spoiler +
On April 27 2012 13:33 O.Golden_ne wrote: I've seen yomi's play before and i understand he likes to be aggressive, and i like his aggression.. i just hope it isn't misplaced aggression and i want him to explain to me why he has picked WhySoMuch other than for his pro-first-day-lynch attitude and his contrary views on the percentages of lynching. i think you have to pick your battles and maybe lynching people with opposing views might not be the key, opposing views lead to discussion, which leads to correct eviction.
On April 27 2012 16:27 O.Golden_ne wrote: Perhaps the small shred of logic yomi has shown in his lurking argument makes him less suspicious than Nreekay?
On April 27 2012 23:58 Pure-SC2 wrote: @AcesAnoka - Yomi has a bit of a reputation from his last 2 newbie games and he tends to play the same way regardless of if he is scum or town. He's essentially trying to stir up discussion by posting "off the wall" (yomi feel free to correct me here if you'd explain it differently). Last game it got him lynched day 1 and he was town, so while it's good to pressure him like you are, bare in mind that this is essentially how he plays.
Both Golden and Pure SC2 cite yomi’s previous game, in which he played blantantly aggressively and voted early off of little (no) evidence. I know this, because I was in the same game yomi was in. His play severely impacted that game, and it was still on my mind in the beginning of this game. What I find interesting however, is that both Golden and PureSC2 are making the beginnings of yomi’s town case FOR him, with the previous game serving as “meta-game evidence”. This is suspicious to me. They are beginning yomi’s defense case for him, why not let him make it? Further, if yomi decided to use this “meta-game evidence to make a case for himself eventually, I would be highly suspicious of yomi, because it could be a perfect mafia play. If other “townies” began the defense for yomi, it’d go down a lot better. However, I can’t make a claim against yomi because he really hasn’t said much. So, ##FOS: Golden, PureSC2.
Your filter consists of 1)lynch vs no lynch opinions, 2) defensive questioning, 3) a brief overview summary opinions on people. This shows me that although you been posting, you lack substance in your post. Your opinions on people are rather general, or they are merely in dull agreement with others. ##FOS
@lurkers; post!!!!! get into town discussion @everyone else; keep posting!! there has been lots of discussion going on, and lots of things analyzing needs to be done. don't be afraid to keep it coming. @yomi; waiting on some concrete analysis ##FOS Golden, Pure SC2, thezenman for now, ## unvote
This post occured fairly early in the game. He admits that he jumped on the bandwagon to vote for WhySoMuch because Yomi voted for WSM earlier. In literally the next sentence, Nreekay states that Yomi's overagressiveness is detrimental. Perhaps he was under the same misunderstanding as I was, and thought the day was already a good portion consumed. Whatever the reason, it seems more illogical than scummy to me. On to his second point (he should have used then instead of than, but anyways...), some suspicion has been cast on his saying that the no-lynch is important, despite being pro-lynch. To me it seems much more logical to assume that he was referring to his next point, which is that if we had decided to not lynch the first day, there wouldn't have been much discussion. I don't think anyone would think a first day where there is zero discussion and no lynch favors the town. After that, he simply casts some suspicion on 3 players (golden, pure, and Zen). I think this was actually really good, as it lead to discussion, and helped to establish Golden and Pure as pretty solid non-scum reads.
In total, I think that parts of this post were ill-explained or just plain illogical, but I don't see any scumminess.
On April 28 2012 04:12 nreekay324 wrote: if yomi decided to use this “meta-game evidence to make a case for himself eventually, I would be highly suspicious of yomi, because it could be a perfect mafia play.
are you saying my vote on whysomuch made you suspicious that I was mafia? and if not, what ARE you saying?
If other “townies” began the defense for yomi, it’d go down a lot better.
you mean if they didn't start it? im confused
When I posted last night, I was thinking that Golden&PureSC2 were suspicious; They were brushing off suspicion towards you by acknowledging that this was your “playstyle “. But the reason I didn’t flat out say I was suspicious of you, yomi, was because I was waiting on your analysis/reads. Last game, you laid out some good stuff I would have went off of more (if i didn’t get shot). But I’m still waiting for that this game. Maybe you’re holding off until there’s more info, but the pace of this game is so much faster that there’s lots of stuff to go through already. So my point is, I think part of me had acknowledged your aggressive play of random voting, and had already seen you innocent. But I’ve been waiting for you to make a case, or add some analysis, or something.I realize now that my suspicion on golden&puresc2 are highly based on my suspicion of you, yomi. Its definitely possible they’re townies afraid of mis-lynching. (Golden stated he’s for d1 lynch, puresc2 finds no-lynch circumstantially acceptable) It seems puresc2, inparticular, is pretty against mis-lynches. If you don’t add anything, then you have the easiest job right now as mafia, because you’re pretty much getting a free pass atm.
##FOS yomi /remove suspicion from golden and puresc2 until I get a better read on yomi
@thezenman I think what I said earlier still stands. But I think also, you have to realize that if you’re town, you should be playing to contribute to the discussion through analysis, interpretation, and taking stances based on these. First, to this ;
On April 28 2012 05:13 The_Zen_Man wrote: Now, concerning your vote, i think the rest of the players would like to have a better explanation than the one you just gave. Bandwagoning on someone seems very suspicious on me, and it seems like scum-play. And as soon as people start finding you suspicious, like yomi, and votes for you, instead of explaining yourself properly you start a case against them. You seem to prefer when someone else is getting voted for no reason at all, but when you are voted for with a good reason you start a case against them.
I would agree with you if you had come out and said my reasoning for voting for whysomuch was shitty. But it was early on, I was impulsive, and that’s all I can really say about it. If you think that I deserve a vote for this, there’s that. But I didn’t make case against them just because they made one against me. There were plenty of people who had/have their suspicions against me. But I made a case against them because I thought I thought I thought I saw a connection between them. (As above, it was related to yomi). I absolutely do not think that people should get voted for no reason, if this were near the deadline it would have been ridiculous. When you say this;
On April 28 2012 05:13 The_Zen_Man wrote: nreekay324: As to my lack of contributing, it is mainly beacuse i've had to defend myself so much. That is why i posted my last post, so i could contribute a little. Also, i don't think you can complain on other peoples lack of contribution, as your only contributing post is the one above.
it just sounds like; hey, i’ve got to defend myself. you’re not contributing either, why don’t you contribute? You need to contribute more than I do. I want to make the point that your posts should have more concrete analysis. As you mentioned earlier, when you throw suspicion back to people who are pointing their fingers at you, you only look more suspicious. Your post of opinions on people was mainly just like/dislike of those people. I get that you’re being pressured, but take the time to develop more analysis that contributes to overall town discussion. If you’re only defending yourself the whole time, it adds very little.
Again, I can't help but approve of the way that Nreekay was driving us forward. Yomi had been suspicious, voting for one person without evidence and then not posting any reasoning or evidence for what he did. Look at that in a vacuum, and it makes a lot of sense. It is just a mite hypocritical for Nreekay, simply because he also voted with basically no evidence. But he then told us why he voted the way he did. I find this odd (and again, illogical), but not consistent with the mindset of mafia. After this part though, he goes on a diatribe against Zen, and I honestly have no idea what it was meant to prove. I simply cannot wade through that portion, and if someone else were to comment on it I'd love to hear something about it. I just have no fucking clue what that was supposed to do, who it was supposed to convince, anything.
Summary: Again, his play here seems more illogical than suspicious. Perhaps we have completely different mindsets...
I really should have waited until morning for this. Anyways, here's his 3rd post that has real content in it. + Show Spoiler +
On May 01 2012 01:52 nreekay324 wrote: Greetings again, D2, here we go; Veriat flipping red. + Show Spoiler +
This is awesome for us, because not only did we already get one mafia, he was a roleblocker. I don’t know how many roles mafia get, but that was definitely a plus. Info from votes to who voted for him, there was; Veriat: (7): yomi, The_Zen_Man, WhySoMuch, Pure-SC2, Splinter[eP], Mordanis, O.Golden_ne. Important details include that veriat got the minimum 7/7 votes, and that the swing vote was a vote change golden made from aces to veriat. It seems unreasonable that golden was swing vote to knock veriat off just to gain town cred, as it’s not statistically favorable for mafia on a D1 lynch. For now, you have my town read Golden + Show Spoiler +
I can’t see mafia offing one of their own for street cred on a minimum vote, but it’s notable it’s a possibility
Looking at Veriat’s filter there’s not much to go off of. He has scum reads on thezenman, me, and jailbreaker. However, he makes no case against them, or (for zenman) a really weak case. In itself, there's so little posted it's hard to make anything of it.
Personally, I had him pegged as mafia, and I have re-evaluations to do. It’s confusing as to why the mafia chose yomi, he was a lurker, albeit with either good luck or gosu senses on veriat. However, it does give us something interesting, as one person did vote for him...
1) Only vote on yomi, and yomi was shot night cycle. 2) Posts don’t seem to have a lot of content, there’s a lot of summary and weak accusations/ questioning. 3) This quote in particular;
On April 29 2012 04:09 Jailbreaker wrote: nonononononono water you guys doin? you planet all wrong. Can't you see that other players are trying to rush people into a decision so fast?? Just because we dun have a majority vote, doesn't mean we should rush. Even though I voted for Yomi so fast in the game, i didn't rush. Just like what golden says, stay clam and dont panic. I know its fail logic right here, no apollo-gies here on my part.
This was a decent amount of time before the lynch-veriat train really started rolling, jailbreaker tries to advocate against it. He doesn’t provide any case in favor of Veriat however, and just side-steps the issue. 4) And then this,
On April 30 2012 16:13 Jailbreaker wrote: Since I voted to horribly wrong, I'm going to delay my vote until it is closer to the deadline.
It’s like jailbreaker wants to let other people make cases for him, so that he can choose the safest one to vote for and thus remain safe. 4) Was on Veriat’s “scum” list. I”ll defer to whysomuch for this; + Show Spoiler +
On April 28 2012 18:26 Veriat wrote: Ok here are my thoughts on who are the scum:
The_Zen_Man nreekay324 Jailbreaker
The_Zen_Man You're stance on the "lynch no lynch" discussion has left me a little puzzled, and your overall playstyle seem fishy to me, so you're getting my vote.
nreekay324 All your posts just seem off and scummy. Many of them seem rushed or flawed, and you basically just jumped the bandwagon with your early vote on Why_So_Much. On a side note i did find Why_So_Much's playstyle kind of off, but i don't think he's scum, because then why would you vote for him?
Jailbreaker You've my number 3 due to consistent flaws in your previous posts.
However JailBreaker, this is exactly how a newer mafia would do it, he just throws his name out there with some lame, non existent reasoning. I am moving Jailbreaker to the mafia side for this alone.
On April 30 2012 06:46 Pure-SC2 wrote: nreekay324 - His filter reads suspicious to me. I see a vote for WhySoMuch, followed by an unbolded unvote. He then leaves it at that. He makes no comment against the most suspicious person in the game so far, who was proven to be mafia. So he votes for WhySoMuch, and has FoS against Golden, Me, Yomi and The_Zen_Man (incidently all of which voted for Veriat). Very suspicious.
I should clarify, I hadn’t intended to neither leave it at whysomuch nor unvoted, but I was unable to return to the deadline. (I’ll look at whysomuch again later in this post). Apparently my unvote wasn’t registered so I didn’t get targeted by nova(looks like aces didnt get modkilled either, so I would have been okay anyway?) When I did find time to check up, it was in the night cycle and it seemed fruitless to post anything then. In regards to what you said, I’ll point out that in one of my posts I state that my FoS ; you and golden were related to yomi, as in if yomi was mafia then I would pursue you two. As he isn’t, the point is moot. Also, if you looked carefully, I made those FoS before yomi even voted for veriat.
To this;
On April 30 2012 17:58 Pure-SC2 wrote: Why was yomi killed?
Mafia hit people for a reason. What was the reason behind yomi getting whacked? Well in the course of day 1, other than getting annoyed by WhySoMuch, he had genuine suspicions of two people, Veriat and nreekay324.
We know one of them was scum, and nreekay324 is my strongest scum read (refer to my night post just before the deadline). If you were the two remaining mafia, and you had seem yomi lead the lynch on one of your scum buddies, and he had found you suspicious, wouldn't that make him a good target?
Interesting points related to the hit on yomi: - After the first day post, nreekay324 states "looks like my suspicions about yomi may have been wrong though..." - this is interesting in that if nreekay324 knows yomi is about to die and flip town it's a good way to clear himself from his earlier stated suspicions of yomi. - People who found yomi suspicious: Jailbreaker, AcesAnoka, nreekay324
I said that because yomi voted for veriat in the very beginning. I thought it was unlikely yomi would have voted veriat in the beginning, because why choose a scum buddy when there were other lurkers to vote? Yomi was highly suspicious, and deserved this suspicion. He was lurking, HARD, and throwing out ##votes for other people to analyze. He could have easily been switching between townies, trying to confuse the town conversation. I’ve been thinking of why they would shoot yomi (I have an idea, as described later), but I don’t know what to say about it “clearing” me. I can deny it, saying that it’d be foolish because it doesn’t clear me, it really incriminates me (I have nothing original now that yomi is green), but then we’ll start throwing WIFOM around and we’ll get nowhere. If you think it’s enough to vote for me, well there’s that.
Your first half analysis of whysomuch was rolling towards #FOSwhysomuch, but you conclude that he’s more likely an overly aggressive towny in your opinion. Is this because he voted for you/ is suspicious of you? It seems you’re trying to discredit him and his earlier posts, and as such his suspicions of you. I have my own opinions, but I was wondering if this was the point you were making.
In regards to my case against yomi, I don’t know what you mean by squirmy. But I would find it agreeable to say that when yomi flipped green, my case got shit on. There’s another post later, where I state that you and puresc2’s suspicions were really based on my suspicions of yomi being mafia, and since he wasn’t I no longer have suspicions against you two in regards to that.
Re-evaluations @puresc2, golden -no more suspicions
This jumps out at me. Why bring this up, right after the mafia lynch? This may be what golden was referring to as “the champion” of veriat’s lynch. + Show Spoiler +
On April 29 2012 08:15 WhySoMuch wrote: Well this game just became a lot more simple.
The_Zen_Man Splinter Pure_SC Mordanis Myself
Look the best for their voting yesterday
Also, he made a case against veriat and helped push his lynch. But quick-scum/town lists based on one or two ideas is messy. It’s more beneficial to take time looking at specifics and make cases (unless you’re mentioning something in a sort of passing way that you don’t want to forget), and then organize that info into lists of scum/town. It’s very confusing play,maybe just scummy town play.
I’m removing my suspicions from him now, for the case he made against Veriat. Its decent enough, and I don’t see any reason he would have, as mafia, to make such an extended case against Veriat, which contributed to the bandwagon to get veriat lynched.
A number of arguments have been made, and not much to add to them because he hasn’t been posting much. He, like other lurkers, should be pressured D2. What got the successful D1 lynch was from pressuring lurkers (yomi called out veriat for this very reason). We need to keep this up.
It’d be detrimental to name players, so to “all blue roles”. As I was reviewing yomi’s filter, something popped out to me;
On April 29 2012 08:14 yomi wrote: Night time is generally not a great time to post. Let the blue players do what they want and don't give mafia any hints on who they should kill.
This is only a thought, but the mafia may have been hoping for a lucky blue snipe. It makes sense, because yomi was semi-lurking (blue roles tend to play more cautiously to protect the blue role). It’s not concrete, but it’s a possibility. We’re already ahead of the mafia, so we don’t need blues to do anything reckless (i.e. claim)
##vote: AcesAnoka ##FOS: Jailbreaker I'll do my best to check this/ stay active more. I understand we need to push the lead we have on the mafia.
This actually confuses the hell out of me. It makes sense. In a garbled, warped way, perhaps, but he manages to communicate ideas. This is a major step up for him. Some of the things he brings up I disagree with, but this post doesn't have the batshit crazyness his first two posts had. There are only two things I find suspicious with this post. First, why did he vote for Aces? Yeah, there were some decent arguments for lynching him, but there were some pretty major shake-ups with Veriat turning out to be mafia. The other suspicious thing to me is his little comment about the blue role players. Why would he be able to name names? Why would it be detrimental to to do so? This is the prime example of the illogical world that Nreekay has been posting from. Final read from this: This paragraph exudes illogic and dumb-townie. Almost too much so. It feels, somehow, contrived
Okay, so to sum up my feelings on Nreekay, I'd have to say that right now I'm getting much more of an incompetent/illogical town read than a straight scum read. As I just wrote however, it does feel somewhat contrived, and so whether its simply a function of a less-than-superior mastery of the language/rhetoric, or whether he's trying to hide something, is beyond me to say. More than anything, his posting makes my head hurt. Prime example: several times he's told everyone to stop lurking, but he has published little content. WTF? Does he not realize that other people have posted much, much more than him?
All said and done, I weakly support a lynch for him in the future if he doesn't change. He isn't adding anything to the discussion, but only distracting from it with senseless posts. The difference I see between him and Jailbreaker is that Jailbreaker seems much more active in his attempts to throw us off (if he indeed is). Where Nreekay seems to be simply bad at communicating (and lilely mafia in general), Jailbreaker seemed to be actively trying to steer us away from voting for Veriat. I'm getting a fairly weak town read for Nreekay, but I don't mind a lynch because I'd say there's probably a 30-35% probability he's mafia (just made that up completely off the top of my head), but either way he isn't helping. So for the final judgement: Unless Jailbreaker manages to completely exculpate himself, I'd favor a lynch for Jailbreaker. I would however vote for either one.
I’m just checking on the thread, post more when I can;
@Mordanis, I’ll look into splinter. I only have one vote to give, and decided at the time that since Aces was already pressured (and didn’t contribute) he deserved it. Although it seems irrelevant now.
@Marvellosity; welcome to the game! Your posts are your own, not aces, but since you took his role you have somewhat of a upward climb ahead of you.
@Golden; well, I will not vote aces(marvellosity) anymore. I felt that Aces had been called out for lurking, etc. earlier than jailbreaker, and he should continue to be pressured. As marvellosity is a new player, I can’t peg him for the same reasons Aces would have against him.
@Mordanis; I (obviously) find everything I have to say logical, but admittedly I may not be able to convey this on paper. I’ll take your comment as constructive criticism, and I’ll take more time to review what I write before posting. Also, you are absolutely correct about the enrique=nreekay, although I would prefer not to be called enrique.
On May 01 2012 07:25 WhySoMuch wrote: Even if he doesn't contribute, we aren't lynching him today or tomorrow, or prolly even the next day.
I don't know everyone's obsession with getting rid of "lurkers", yes it's fine d1 but after that, if people clear themselves then they shouldn't be lynched even if they aren't big contributors. I'm not encouraging to stop posting because he seems like a really good town to have, but if he can't cause of irl or whatever, we still aren't lynching him.
In regards to lynching lurkers, I think it’s a good policy to maintain, in this sense; blind lynching lurkers is bad, but pressuring them to contribute is what leads to more town discussion. It’s what lead to Veriat’s D1 lynch, isn’t it? I see asking them to post more as light pressure, but actually voting for them real pressure.
On May 01 2012 12:03 marvellosity wrote: To Pure: I see you posted two scumreads. Which would you prefer to lynch today and why?
Well, since my posting them, there have been some good developments (including your arrival) that have put more information out there for everyone.
As I posted yesterday, nreekay was my strongest read but he made a good post that seemed a marked improvement over his earlier posts. However, I hadn't seen it the way Mordanis had, who raised a really good point in that it seemed contrived. However, nreekay has since posted further and I think for the moment has lowered his scum rating in my eyes but will remain a person of suspicion for me.
Jailbreaker has moved to the top of my list and he is now receiving a lot of heat. What is his response to the cases against him? He's remained silent through it all further increasing suspicion. At this stage he would be my prime lynch candidate.
Splinter - well he's either uninterested town or lurky mafia. He's contributed nothing to this day and his last post was that he'll dump his thoughts when he gets home from work. Where is this post?
Marvellosity - I think you've done a good job so far, but I think Golden had a good point regarding your focus on WhySoMuch. So based on your filter reviews, who are your strongest scum reads and why?
WhySoMuch - he is causing so much confusion and distraction with the way he is posting. I actually have a neutral read on him but my plan is to just ignore him for now. He's either playing a very deep and layered deception play or has so many bad preconceived notions of what to look for that it's just not worth engaging in. He may need to be looked at closer depending on what happens over the day/night cycle.
My reads so far, from most likely town to dunno relly to most likely scum:
Nova/The_Zen_Man - Like everyone already said, their actions can't be explained in any other way that they are twonies.
AcesAnoka - My prime suspect from day 1. Like a said before, Him being scum doesn't make alot of sense to me atm. Mafia would just spread votes between him and Verait. However I think that he is play is quite strange. The only thing he posted after he got him from the wedding was some excuses and this: On April 29 2012 18:03 AcesAnoka wrote: EDIT: Just read through the whole thread and from what i've seen Veriat looked very suspicious, if I were there my vote would've gone to him too. I already thought it was strange that he was lurking so hard and his reasoning behind his voting was not much.
This is just so strange to say imo. This would be a somewhat safe way to say that he is town because Veriat DID in fact flip scum but what if he wouldn't have? We will never know which is why I feel this post is just so unnecessary. Aces, I'm leaning town on you but not because of your play. Step up and contribute!
WhySoMuch - Orginally you were town for me. But I share the concerns of Golden against you. I am also a bit puzzled by your night play also feel. Sure you added some cool points, but why not do it later? This would ensure that scum had no time to switch their votes if you really were that afraid of getting killed. On April 29 2012 08:50 WhySoMuch wrote: I think I'm going to get all my thoughts out there during this night period because I believe I am a likely target for tonight's kill. Hence my posting. The Mafia isn't stupid and they know who they should kill, posting isn't really gonna give them any clues on who to kill. Obviously you could also try to level with them if you are not a power role to draw the kill as well. If you choose not to post I don't think it's a bad thing, but I think we can use tonight to get a jump on tomorrow
I also don't like this post. Feels like you are baiting medics/jailers here.
Jailbreaker - Not posting much that can be usefull as of yet. And he just added this post: On April 30 2012 16:13 Jailbreaker wrote: Mordanis - + Show Spoiler + All I get is a scum vibe from you on this post. But i feel like i don't have enough info on you to make a significant case against you. Seeing how I take individual posts instead of looking at the context of the posts.
will post more when i have a goodnight sleep
Which only increases my suspicion of him. If you check his filter you can also spot of mass escuses on why he is posting so "scummy" things.
His play with yomi/Verait also is pointing towards him being scum but people have already talked about that enough, which is why I don't include it in this post. Overall this is my strongest scumread atm.
I am too lazy to complete the list as I havn't really got very strong reads of Mordanis, Splinter[eP], nreekay324 and golden(don't think I missed anyone, did I?). Will update this post later on with my read on theese guys!
Marvellosity - I claimed Aces to be town not due to his play but due to the events of D1 even though his own play were quite strange. So far your play seems town to me, and my view on you/Aces is unchanged.
Mordanis - You pushed the lynch at Veriat harder than most people. Arguable maybe the hardest. You will remain town for me for at least some time.
Golden - This is a harder one, your vote D1 seems WIFOM to discuss. Either your scum and you tried to save Verait as hard as you possibly could. Not voting Verait make you look scummy. You can also be town and just didn't think he was scum. Other than that, your play seems okay. The only thing a find a little strange is that excluding the first half of D1 Jailbreaker havn't been on your list of suspicious people at all. What is your opinion on him? Do you think that he is town now and if so, why? My impression from this post is that you still find him somewhat suspicious, but it's hard to make any analysis on this matter as it is the first time you mention him since D1:
On May 01 2012 11:23 O.Golden_ne wrote:
1. Nreekay324
You posted a decent argument against Jailbreaker in a spoiler on your D1 Summary post. Nreekay324's Filter What would it take to change your vote from AcesAnoka (marvellosity) in the same post, to Jailbreaker? I feel like your argument against Jailbreaker looks stronger than this one against AcesAnoka (marvellosity):
A number of arguments have been made, and not much to add to them because he hasn’t been posting much. He, like other lurkers, should be pressured D2. What got the successful D1 lynch was from pressuring lurkers (yomi called out veriat for this very reason). We need to keep this up.
Overall Golden seems town atm but that is subject to change.
nreekay324 - Hmm, I clearly feel your activity during D1 wasn't great at all. You only posts were mostly centered around yomi being scum, which we for sure isn't true now. Your latest post was good tho and you answered for at least some of the allegations against you. The only thing about this post is that is confusing to me is your vote on Aces:
[QUOTE]On May 01 2012 01:52 nreekay324 wrote: Jailbreaker 1) Only vote on yomi, and yomi was shot night cycle. 2) Posts don’t seem to have a lot of content, there’s a lot of summary and weak accusations/ questioning. 3) This quote in particular; [QUOTE]On April 29 2012 04:09 Jailbreaker wrote: nonononononono water you guys doin? you planet all wrong. Can't you see that other players are trying to rush people into a decision so fast?? Just because we dun have a majority vote, doesn't mean we should rush. Even though I voted for Yomi so fast in the game, i didn't rush. Just like what golden says, stay clam and dont panic. I know its fail logic right here, no apollo-gies here on my part. [/QUOTE] This was a decent amount of time before the lynch-veriat train really started rolling, jailbreaker tries to advocate against it. He doesn’t provide any case in favor of Veriat however, and just side-steps the issue. 4) And then this, [QUOTE]On April 30 2012 16:13 Jailbreaker wrote: Since I voted to horribly wrong, I'm going to delay my vote until it is closer to the deadline. [/QUOTE] It’s like jailbreaker wants to let other people make cases for him, so that he can choose the safest one to vote for and thus remain safe. 4) Was on Veriat’s “scum” list. I”ll defer to whysomuch for this; [QUOTE]On April 29 2012 09:12 WhySoMuch wrote: [QUOTE]On April 28 2012 18:26 Veriat wrote: Ok here are my thoughts on who are the scum:
A number of arguments have been made, and not much to add to them because he hasn’t been posting much. He, like other lurkers, should be pressured D2. What got the successful D1 lynch was from pressuring lurkers (yomi called out veriat for this very reason). We need to keep this up.
##vote: AcesAnoka ##FOS: Jailbreaker [/QUOTE]
Sense is not made here. I don't really understand why you are voting Aces at all. Overall, your gameplay is at times good and at times quite confusing and I'm not sure whether you newbie town or scum.
Splinter - Lurking at the moment, and havn't been posting anything of substance since D1, where he posted a case vs Aces. He was the one who started the suspicion on Aces. Can't do to much analysis in this case as it's very WIFOM. Either he is scum and wanted to capitalize on the confusion in Aces posts or he was town and thought the play in fact was scummy. Needs to be stepping up hardcore.
Conclusion/TL;DR
Townies: The_Zen_Man Pure
Dunno yet: O.Golden_ne(although I'm leaning town here) Marvellosity(same as above) Mordanis(same as above) WhySoMuch nreekay324
Scum: Splinter[eP](due to lurking) Jailbreaker(strongest read due to major holes and confusion in play)
EBWOP: nreekay324 posted while I was writing. Overall good post but I find his reason for voteswitch rather weak. Not that I DON'T find Jailbreaker suspicious, but why wouldn't vote for him in the first place?
My reads so far, from most likely town to dunno relly to most likely scum:
Nova/The_Zen_Man - Like everyone already said, their actions can't be explained in any other way that they are twonies.
AcesAnoka - My prime suspect from day 1. Like a said before, Him being scum doesn't make alot of sense to me atm. Mafia would just spread votes between him and Verait. However I think that he is play is quite strange. The only thing he posted after he got him from the wedding was some excuses and this: On April 29 2012 18:03 AcesAnoka wrote: EDIT: Just read through the whole thread and from what i've seen Veriat looked very suspicious, if I were there my vote would've gone to him too. I already thought it was strange that he was lurking so hard and his reasoning behind his voting was not much.
This is just so strange to say imo. This would be a somewhat safe way to say that he is town because Veriat DID in fact flip scum but what if he wouldn't have? We will never know which is why I feel this post is just so unnecessary. Aces, I'm leaning town on you but not because of your play. Step up and contribute!
WhySoMuch - Orginally you were town for me. But I share the concerns of Golden against you. I am also a bit puzzled by your night play also feel. Sure you added some cool points, but why not do it later? This would ensure that scum had no time to switch their votes if you really were that afraid of getting killed. On April 29 2012 08:50 WhySoMuch wrote: I think I'm going to get all my thoughts out there during this night period because I believe I am a likely target for tonight's kill. Hence my posting. The Mafia isn't stupid and they know who they should kill, posting isn't really gonna give them any clues on who to kill. Obviously you could also try to level with them if you are not a power role to draw the kill as well. If you choose not to post I don't think it's a bad thing, but I think we can use tonight to get a jump on tomorrow
I also don't like this post. Feels like you are baiting medics/jailers here.
Jailbreaker - Not posting much that can be usefull as of yet. And he just added this post: On April 30 2012 16:13 Jailbreaker wrote: Mordanis - + Show Spoiler + All I get is a scum vibe from you on this post. But i feel like i don't have enough info on you to make a significant case against you. Seeing how I take individual posts instead of looking at the context of the posts.
will post more when i have a goodnight sleep
Which only increases my suspicion of him. If you check his filter you can also spot of mass escuses on why he is posting so "scummy" things.
His play with yomi/Verait also is pointing towards him being scum but people have already talked about that enough, which is why I don't include it in this post. Overall this is my strongest scumread atm.
I am too lazy to complete the list as I havn't really got very strong reads of Mordanis, Splinter[eP], nreekay324 and golden(don't think I missed anyone, did I?). Will update this post later on with my read on theese guys!
Marvellosity - I claimed Aces to be town not due to his play but due to the events of D1 even though his own play were quite strange. So far your play seems town to me, and my view on you/Aces is unchanged.
Mordanis - You pushed the lynch at Veriat harder than most people. Arguable maybe the hardest. You will remain town for me for at least some time.
Golden - This is a harder one, your vote D1 seems WIFOM to discuss. Either your scum and you tried to save Verait as hard as you possibly could. Not voting Verait make you look scummy. You can also be town and just didn't think he was scum. Other than that, your play seems okay. The only thing a find a little strange is that excluding the first half of D1 Jailbreaker havn't been on your list of suspicious people at all. What is your opinion on him? Do you think that he is town now and if so, why? My impression from this post is that you still find him somewhat suspicious, but it's hard to make any analysis on this matter as it is the first time you mention him since D1: [QUOTE]On May 01 2012 11:23 O.Golden_ne wrote:
1. Nreekay324
You posted a decent argument against Jailbreaker in a spoiler on your D1 Summary post. [url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=331498&user=248687]Nreekay324's Filter[/url] What would it take to change your vote from AcesAnoka (marvellosity) in the same post, to Jailbreaker? I feel like your argument against Jailbreaker looks stronger than this one against AcesAnoka (marvellosity):
[quote] A number of arguments have been made, and not much to add to them because he hasn’t been posting much. He, like other lurkers, should be pressured D2. What got the successful D1 lynch was from pressuring lurkers (yomi called out veriat for this very reason). We need to keep this up.[/quote] [/QUOTE]
Overall Golden seems town atm but that is subject to change.
nreekay324 - Hmm, I clearly feel your activity during D1 wasn't great at all. You only posts were mostly centered around yomi being scum, which we for sure isn't true now. Your latest post was good tho and you answered for at least some of the allegations against you. The only thing about this post is that is confusing to me is your vote on Aces:
[QUOTE]On May 01 2012 01:52 nreekay324 wrote: Jailbreaker 1) Only vote on yomi, and yomi was shot night cycle. 2) Posts don’t seem to have a lot of content, there’s a lot of summary and weak accusations/ questioning. 3) This quote in particular; [QUOTE]On April 29 2012 04:09 Jailbreaker wrote: nonononononono water you guys doin? you planet all wrong. Can't you see that other players are trying to rush people into a decision so fast?? Just because we dun have a majority vote, doesn't mean we should rush. Even though I voted for Yomi so fast in the game, i didn't rush. Just like what golden says, stay clam and dont panic. I know its fail logic right here, no apollo-gies here on my part. [/QUOTE] This was a decent amount of time before the lynch-veriat train really started rolling, jailbreaker tries to advocate against it. He doesn’t provide any case in favor of Veriat however, and just side-steps the issue. 4) And then this, [QUOTE]On April 30 2012 16:13 Jailbreaker wrote: Since I voted to horribly wrong, I'm going to delay my vote until it is closer to the deadline. [/QUOTE] It’s like jailbreaker wants to let other people make cases for him, so that he can choose the safest one to vote for and thus remain safe. 4) Was on Veriat’s “scum” list. I”ll defer to whysomuch for this; [QUOTE]On April 29 2012 09:12 WhySoMuch wrote: [QUOTE]On April 28 2012 18:26 Veriat wrote: Ok here are my thoughts on who are the scum:
A number of arguments have been made, and not much to add to them because he hasn’t been posting much. He, like other lurkers, should be pressured D2. What got the successful D1 lynch was from pressuring lurkers (yomi called out veriat for this very reason). We need to keep this up.
##vote: AcesAnoka ##FOS: Jailbreaker [/QUOTE]
Sense is not made here. I don't really understand why you are voting Aces at all. Overall, your gameplay is at times good and at times quite confusing and I'm not sure whether you newbie town or scum.
Splinter - Lurking at the moment, and havn't been posting anything of substance since D1, where he posted a case vs Aces. He was the one who started the suspicion on Aces. Can't do to much analysis in this case as it's very WIFOM. Either he is scum and wanted to capitalize on the confusion in Aces posts or he was town and thought the play in fact was scummy. Needs to be stepping up hardcore.
Conclusion/TL;DR
Townies: The_Zen_Man Pure
Dunno yet: O.Golden_ne(although I'm leaning town here) Marvellosity(same as above) Mordanis(same as above) WhySoMuch nreekay324
Scum: Splinter[eP](due to lurking) Jailbreaker(strongest read due to major holes and confusion in play)
Hi, just one thing - on your comments against Golden and his voting behaviour at the end of Day 1. I really don't see a scum play here, I actually see the opposite. Golden had a case against Aces (which was closely aligned with my own thoughts on him), and prior to the shift onto Veriat had already stated his suspicions on him. At the time I voted for Veriat, I had scum readings on both Veriat and Aces, however did feel stronger towards my read on Veriat which was what influenced my vote. When I read Golden's filter at the time, he wanted people to explain why they thought Veriat was more suspicious than Aces which is exactly what I wanted as well. He made his vote in the hour leading up to the deadline and I cannot see a scum motivation for this as it sealed the fate of Veriat the scum to be lynched. If he was scum, there was absolutely no reason to make that vote.
Other than that, I have similar reads to you (I need more from Marvellosity at this stage, and have nreekay as a possible scum read) and like your contribution.
Hi, just one thing - on your comments against Golden and his voting behaviour at the end of Day 1. I really don't see a scum play here, I actually see the opposite. Golden had a case against Aces (which was closely aligned with my own thoughts on him), and prior to the shift onto Veriat had already stated his suspicions on him. At the time I voted for Veriat, I had scum readings on both Veriat and Aces, however did feel stronger towards my read on Veriat which was what influenced my vote. When I read Golden's filter at the time, he wanted people to explain why they thought Veriat was more suspicious than Aces which is exactly what I wanted as well. He made his vote in the hour leading up to the deadline and I cannot see a scum motivation for this as it sealed the fate of Veriat the scum to be lynched. If he was scum, there was absolutely no reason to make that vote.
Other than that, I have similar reads to you (I need more from Marvellosity at this stage, and have nreekay as a possible scum read) and like your contribution.
True that. But do you really think that he wouldn't vote Verait if he were scum? He were hard pressured in the very end and saving Verait that day could've resluted in both him and Veriat getting lynched the following days.
To everyone in the thread - use the bloody Preview button to see if your post looks like it should. Too many badly formatted posts >.<
It does seem for now that Jailbreaker is the strongest case. Given his filter isn't too long, I probably bear the risk of repeating what others have said, but never mind.
First of all, we have the 'I don't want to rush my vote' followed by rushing his vote.
On April 27 2012 04:33 Jailbreaker wrote: with all this nonsense talk about scheduals and lynch/no lynch, we're forgetting about the real issue here:
THERE'S MAFIA SCUM AMONG US.
I know it is day one, but does it have to be so passive? I don't want to vote for the wrong person based on three posts
On April 27 2012 11:52 Jailbreaker wrote: vote## yomi
On April 27 2012 13:39 Jailbreaker wrote: ##vote: yomi
On April 27 2012 00:04 yomi wrote: hi lets all be best friends and work together to solve the puzzle!
He's finally prodded into making a post that has more content than my rubbish bin, but there's so little to note in it I find it hard to comment on it:
On April 27 2012 16:05 Jailbreaker wrote: Semi Long Post Warning + Show Spoiler +
These are my thoughts so far on what has been posted. right or wrong, this is my interpretation.
On April 27 2012 02:57 yomi wrote: these players havent posted:
whysomuch mordanis
calls them out for lurking: bandwagon under construction
On April 27 2012 03:24 yomi wrote: ya rando lynch is bad that's 25% I think to hit which is not profit. But you only need 25 more points to get to 50% and then we are in profit territory so we'll see how it plays out. if everyone is getting along friendly and lurking all day like they are now then we can't do anything.
and being useless: bandwagon mobilized.
On April 27 2012 03:52 Mordanis wrote: Shit. I was asleep or at class until now. Anyways, I personally think that a lynch on the first day would be a mistake. I haven't followed much mafia, played before, or read as much as I should have, and so my personal view is that it would be a shame to lynch someone solely based on trying to trim down the total pool of people in the spaceship.
OHMIGOSH was called a lurker! time to panic!
On April 27 2012 04:00 Mordanis wrote: As an addendum to my previous post, it is going to be hard to judge whether someone is lurking or just sleeping, seeing as we have people from USA, Europe, and even South Pacific. Since days are 24 hours and nights are 48 hours, I definitely think that you need to wait for a fairly long time (I'm thinking about 9 hours), because people do occasionally sleep If nothing else, at least for first little bit we should tell everyone our relative schedules so that there is no misunderstanding. To start this off, I will be going to class in about an hour, and after that I'll be able to post maybe once before going to work until about 10:30ish PM (AZ time)
Tries to clear lurker name. because hey, this is a gobal game right? somepeople might need more time. seemsreasonabletome.
On April 27 2012 04:33 Jailbreaker wrote: with all this nonsense talk about scheduals and lynch/no lynch, we're forgetting about the real issue here:
THERE'S MAFIA SCUM AMONG US.
I know it is day one, but does it have to be so passive? I don't want to vote for the wrong person based on three posts
But yet your own post doesn't really contribute much at all. If you think not enough people are posting or that they are posting useless stuff, wouldn't it be better if you did some analysis yourself? I think everyone are conscious about that we have mafia among us and everyone would like to avoid dumb misslynches. You are stating the obvious here.
Your post is even a bit counterproductive in that you discouraging people from making posts about lynch/no lynch. Afaik there isn't much else to talk about atm but please let us know if there is something. Talking about peoples opinions about lynching gives us a tell on their gameplan/motives etc. so I find nothing bad with it.
I'm off to bed now. There is a chance that I will not be able to post to much untill 20:00 CEST tomorrow.
You're right, I should put more analysis into my posts.
On April 27 2012 10:22 WhySoMuch wrote: Hey all,
This is my first game on this site, but I have played WW elsewhere so I'm not a total newbie.
First off, with regards to No-Lynch, this is a very bad idea. We have 2 kills a day as of right now, the vig and the lynch, by negating a kill we are automatically giving the wolves an edge by not taking advantage of our kill-rate. Also, even though a villager is more likely to be lynched, the information we gain via wagon analysis, late vote changes etc. becomes very valuable as we progress through the game.
And a random question: Is there any way to get more posts per page? Right now mine is set to default and couldnt find a way to make me see more posts. Idk if it's possible.
totally not drawing attention to myself
Page 5 is the Yomi versus WhySoMuch showdown Yomi votes for whysomuch, whysomuch votes for The_Zen_Man (where did this come from?) they talk about win rates for town correctly lynching and whatnot
I vote for Yomi because I feel like you are starting a bandwagon against whysomuch so early in the game then he asks why i voted for him. I think that is suspicious.
then
On April 27 2012 12:38 nreekay324 wrote: they're almost as bad as vampires ##vote: whysomuch
so confused by this, dont know what to say.
next is:
On April 27 2012 13:16 WhySoMuch wrote: nreekay's vote on me is weirder than yomi
I think I see this as: "YOMI has a reason to vote for me. Nreekay is prolly jumping on the bandwagon"
O.Golden_ne - obvious critical analysis out in the open. BOOM CHECK IT
next set of posts is my fail vote, lol. I vote for yomi for reasons stated above
Mordanis- i think he is just trying to keep a "netural" image. I'm totally against the witchhunt too, I will put more analysis into posts.
But within it, he does say this twice:
On April 27 2012 16:05 Jailbreaker wrote: You're right, I should put more analysis into my posts.
On April 27 2012 16:05 Jailbreaker wrote: I will put more analysis into posts.
See the bolded part of the post below:
On April 28 2012 13:52 Jailbreaker wrote: when i read the past few pages of this thread, most of you seem so suspicious. I dont want to post a Fos untill i can get my logic straightened out. Yes, I realize that my posts have flaws, but I will stand by my decision untill i am fully convinced to change my vote. I don't want to sit in the neutral zone because I feel that it is to passive. What Golden has said in the post above me, "Both these players seem very afraid to be lynched, and squirm under scrutiny." Even though it is for two different players, getting accused causes panic and action. I feel like it would be easier to identify between scum and town.
Im going to stand by my vote of yomi. No apologies for my shallow posts.
The last few quotes have all gone to generally illustrate the point that Jailbreaker is aware his posts are lacking. In fact, he keeps repeating it (instead of, you know, analysing). And finally there, 'no apologies for his shallow posts'. O.o
Finally we have a vague suspicion thrown at Mordanis:
On April 30 2012 11:53 Mordanis wrote: Frankly, I was simply reluctant to change my 3 times in about an hour. In reality, I was more for a lynch for either player than I was for a lynch of specifically one of them. At that point, Aces hadn't posted in about a day, so without knowing any justification for why he was lurking, he was a good candidate for a lynch even if there was a low probability of his being mafia just because he wasn't any help for the town. Hell, I'm still for lynching lurkers even if there is a low probability of them turning out scum because we need to work together. Lurking only hurts us. Also, if you look at the earlier parts of the thread, I was one of the first to put pressure on Veriat, which I don't see mafia doing.
After that little bit of defense, I'm very glad to have suspicion cast upon me. We need to have everyone defending themselves and looking at other players behavior. I'd like to think that I'm one of the least scummy posters, but I have no problems. I'll be able to post a bit more in a little bit, so bye for a few minutes :D
All I get is a scum vibe from you on this post. But i feel like i don't have enough info on you to make a significant case against you. Seeing how I take individual posts instead of looking at the context of the posts.
The bold part is all he says about why he finds it scummy. In other words, no reason at all. But wait, what did we see before?
On April 28 2012 13:52 Jailbreaker wrote: I dont want to post a Fos untill i can get my logic straightened out.
A-ha! He doesn't want to post a FoS until his logic is straightened out. Except he then does exactly that against Mordanis with... no logic at all.
In answer to your question, no I'm not sure that he's scum and not just bad town. I wasn't certain about Veriat either, but felt that I was basing my vote on what I classed as scummy behaviour, which I feel can be applied to Jailbreaker as well.
On your second nagging feeling, it's an interesting one that I was grappling with yesterday. So I'm going to go over the thoughts I had around this.
What do we know? Veriat wasn't very good at being mafia. He was suspicious enough to get a majority vote on day 1. This means that the actions he did make (i.e. his posts) potentially contain more info in the shape of scum slips, or inexperienced scum posts based on whatever co-ordination is going on between the scum team.
He posted scum reads on 3 players; The_Zen_Man, nreekay and Jailbreaker. The reasoning behind each of these was bad (a big part of the suspicions against him). This came after there were 2 votes on him, and there were 2 on Aces at around the same time. This came just after he admitted he was looking pretty scummy, so I think we can assume he was feeling the pressure.
So the questions I have from this based on Veriat being bad/inexperienced mafia who is under some pressure and already admitting he looks scummy: 1). Is it time to try and distance yourself from your scum buddies by posting your own reads that contain 1 or 2 of them? (I think it unlikely to include 2 of them, but could very well include 1) 2). Or, do you try to create hollow cases against townies to try and move the heat off to someone else? - Note: I have a town read on The_Zen_Man so it makes sense for him to be number 1 on Veriats scum list regardless of the answer above.
What are the motivations behind his scum read post?
In his scum post, Veriat has this to say about WhySoMuch:
On a side note i did find Why_So_Much's playstyle kind of off, but i don't think he's scum, because then why would you vote for him?
I find this statement interesting in the context of knowing Veriat is scum, and bad/inexperienced scum at that. It's WIFOM, but what is his motivation for saying he doesn't think WhySoMuch is scum at this point? Maybe it's too obvious, but it's the only other read he makes.
On May 01 2012 20:18 O.Golden_ne wrote: Can we get a vote count?
Vote Count - Deadline at 21:59 GMT (+00:00). With 10 players left it takes 6 to lynch. O.Golden_ne (0) - WhySoMuch AcesAnoka (0) - nreekay324 Jailbreaker (4) - WhySoMuch, Mordanis, nreekay324, O.Golden_ne Not voted - Pure-SC2, Marvellosity, Lazermonkey, The_Zen_Man, Jailbreaker, Splinter[eP] All players must vote before the deadline. Anyone that doesn't will be modkilled without warning.
I've read your thoughts and I went back and had a look at Veriat's post.
The problems are contained in your questions 1 and 2. I can see nothing that makes me think one is more likely than the other. This very much isn't a dig at you, but this is classic wifom territory - the answer changes every time you add or takeaway a piece of information of logical thinking from the equation.
I suppose this is why I said it makes me feel uncomfortable - I can't draw any worthwhile conclusions from his fingering, and yet they still exist.
Going through my thought process, I'm glad you made me think about it a little more. In my view, for now, effectively ignoring who Veriat pointed fingers at is probably the best mindset. If we think someone is scum, then we shouldn't worry what Veriat thought.
Moving on - Jailbreaker is obviously a likely lynch today. But it doesn't do town much good just to go 'yep, we'll lynch this guy', so if there are other cases to be made, let's give it a go.
We have a serious lurker problem right now with both Jailbreaker and Splinter.
Splinter was going to post when he got home from work and never did. What does this say? Maybe not much but he's fallen into heavily lurking state after being quite active during day 1.
Jailbreaker has made absolutely no response to the cases against him.
On April 29 2012 05:30 Splinter[eP] wrote: Okay, just quickly scanned over the thread posts. I will vote for Veriat instead to secure a lynch; while my analysis and other's of Aces makes sense I myself now see that the reasoning for Veriat is also quite concrete and some people are more sold on him than Aces. I think Veriat has tripped over himself more than Aces has as well, so thus:
##Unvote AcesAnoka
##Vote Veriat
I hope that he turns up red, but if not that means we've at least eliminated bad town play instead of someone more useful to the conversation.
I don't see Splinter ever being mafia.
-He made a case on Aces earlier in the day and therefore had ever reason to keep his vote on Aces -He comes back into the thread and makes his vote change, where at the time the votes were 4-3, because he switched off Aces it made the votes 5-2 which made a veriat lynch likely
-His following post he says "depending on the results I'm still coming for Aces"
I think that is a very hard post to make as a mafia in that spot, he would know Veriat is flipping mafia, and therefor would have to clear (I'm assuming) Aces.
In response to Marvellosity's question about whether Jailbreaker is bad town or mafia: I'm sure you've read my opinion on this type of question before, but I think that Jailbreaker is the most obvious candidate for a lynch. First, I think he looks the scummiest. We want to get rid of the scum. But secondly, if we're wrong and he turns out to be town, we aren't going to lose much. His posts are confusing, shallow, and (with the "nononononono you are planet wrong" post) actively making an argument not to lynch scum, without evidence, and against his earlier stance "THERES MAFIA SCUM AMONG US". Using my patented SCUm DEtection Probability (SCUDEP: my arbitrary estimates of the probability that a player is mafia), I'd say Jailbreakers maxing at maybe 55% (compared to 20% random), but we would only really lose a number from our town count, and gain freedom from seemingly actively dumb posts.
First thing: If people would please start to get themselves organized for a lynch, that'd be really nice. Last lynch was very chaotic and nearly didn't happen. If we could get going and skip all of that, I'd be grateful.
Also, Jailbreaker hasn't posted at all in 32 hours, with only 7 to go before lynching time. I honestly can't seem to find anything he's done that could take some suspicion off. If he's town, he's doing a reeeeeeeeeeeeeally bad job of it.
On May 01 2012 23:56 Mordanis wrote: In response to Marvellosity's question about whether Jailbreaker is bad town or mafia: I'm sure you've read my opinion on this type of question before, but I think that Jailbreaker is the most obvious candidate for a lynch. First, I think he looks the scummiest. We want to get rid of the scum. But secondly, if we're wrong and he turns out to be town, we aren't going to lose much. His posts are confusing, shallow, and (with the "nononononono you are planet wrong" post) actively making an argument not to lynch scum, without evidence, and against his earlier stance "THERES MAFIA SCUM AMONG US". Using my patented SCUm DEtection Probability (SCUDEP: my arbitrary estimates of the probability that a player is mafia), I'd say Jailbreakers maxing at maybe 55% (compared to 20% random), but we would only really lose a number from our town count, and gain freedom from seemingly actively dumb posts.
I hate this type of reasoning.
If it's a mislynch, then basically we lose two townies for free (barring the unlikely event Mafia KP at night is blocked).
Then we're back in the Day cycle with the same number of mafias and two less townies. However useless he is, this is not good for town.
I'm heading out in a few hours and am not likely to be online at the voting deadline. I will try and keep an eye on the thread via mobile but am not able to guarantee it.
Based on all the information to date, my strongest read is on Jailbreaker. I share the same niggles Marvellosity stated earlier, but also think that getting a successfully mafia lynch day 1 has us in a great position today.
If Jailbreaker flips town? Well as he's such an easy target we're not likely to learn too much from who voted, which is my biggest concern. But based on a series of suspicious posts, and no response at all to the cases made against him in conjunction with lurking, he makes by the far the best lynching candidate we have.
I agree that miss-lynching is bad, you can't really argue that.
However, we are ahead of the game with our successful lynch day 1, which makes our day 2 lynch result less critical, but it's still obviously important.
marvellosity, if you're not getting a scum read on Jailbreaker or are more suspicious of someone else, who would you want to lynch in his place? You're in an interesting position as you arrived into the game late, and the person you replaced created a lot of suspicion. You've done a good job so far of alleviating that suspicion but we still don't have much to go off. You're obviously concerned with the result of this lynch, so give us something more to work with if you aren't supporting the lynch on Jailbreaker.
I think that's 6 votes on Jailbreaker so we secured a lynch barring anyone doing something.
@Mordanis, you can't argue with people that use bad logic. But you are right and they are wrong, Jailbreaker is the right lynch regardless of the result.
I'm going to put my vote on Jailbreaker. But there is a chance I will switch. His play is very strange, which I've already said in an earlier post. It cannot really be explained by him being town. The only problem i have with lynching him is that everyone is so fast at voting him. I don't think that scum would buss 2 players 2 days in a row but still he already have liek 6 votes or something...
Also I'm not even sure my vote matters anymore... but w/e
On May 02 2012 01:54 marvellosity wrote: Bad logic is that 8 townies is better than 6? ok.
No. But if we don't lynch him today, we are going to have the same discussion tomorrow so we aren't gonna progress and probably end up lynching him tomorrow and even if we don't, there's no way for him to be clear so at some point he is going to be lynched anyways, therefore, the best play is to lynch him. He is likely mafia but if he isn't it's not bad.
First of all, your 8 vs. 6 implies that the mafia won't score a hit. It would make infinitely more sense to say 7 vs. 6. And I think that 6 townies would fair better without someone who acts thought than 7 townies with someone who makes no sense. That being said, I never said that we should lynch people just because they don't make sense or don't contribute. For people who already seem scummy, it is a way to state that a mis-lynch wouldn't destroy one of the core members, or the flow of information through the thread. I'm curious whether you would support a no-lynch if Jailbreaker seemed less scummy?
Or what if you wer 65% sure one player was mafia, but he posted a lot and made a lot of sense. But another player was up for lynching, and you were only 45% sure he was mafia, and he posted illogically, inconsistently, and generally badly. Which one would you vote for (Since this is a thought experiment, think of the percentages more generally plz)? Personally, the one who posted worse seems like the better candidate to me because its a lower risk/ lower reward, in other words its the safer play.
On May 02 2012 03:07 Mordanis wrote: First of all, your 8 vs. 6 implies that the mafia won't score a hit. It would make infinitely more sense to say 7 vs. 6. And I think that 6 townies would fair better without someone who acts thought than 7 townies with someone who makes no sense. That being said, I never said that we should lynch people just because they don't make sense or don't contribute. For people who already seem scummy, it is a way to state that a mis-lynch wouldn't destroy one of the core members, or the flow of information through the thread. I'm curious whether you would support a no-lynch if Jailbreaker seemed less scummy?
Or what if you wer 65% sure one player was mafia, but he posted a lot and made a lot of sense. But another player was up for lynching, and you were only 45% sure he was mafia, and he posted illogically, inconsistently, and generally badly. Which one would you vote for (Since this is a thought experiment, think of the percentages more generally plz)? Personally, the one who posted worse seems like the better candidate to me because its a lower risk/ lower reward, in other words its the safer play.
My 8 vs 6 implies this. We are in a day cycle with 8 town 2 mafia. If we lynch a townie, we are again in the day cycle but this time with 6 town 2 mafia. This is the problem with mislynching, you're losing 2 townies. If you lynch scum, you're 7 townies 1 mafia.
The difference between 6-2 and 7-1 is immense. This is why you always lynch your strongest scum-read.
So to your 2nd paragraph. The only correct play is to lynch the 65% read. For reasons explained above. Choosing the option that is more likely to yield 6-2 instead of 7-1 is ludicrous.
65-45 isn't as big of a split as you seem to think it is. And I'd say that the idiot is more likely to derail the process in the future, and the longer there is only one mafia in the game the more difficult I'd say it is to tell who it is. Literally all the one mafia has to do is defend himself and blend in while killing one person per night. The odds aren't that good if a few days are wasted talking about whoever the idiot is attacking. Whereas with two mafia left vs. 6 competent players, I see a much greater likelihood that the 6 can work together and find holes in the mafia's play. Long story short, this seems much more of a play-style thing than an objectively right or wrong situation. You prefer an overwhelming majority of numbers, I prefer to be able to have a group that is capable of finding the mafia through reason.
In any case though, Jailbreaker is IMO the better scum read than Nreekay, and also the worse player. But I have to agree, this lynch is going too easily. I'm going to look into any reasons why... Hopefully I'll be able to post some reasons for the easiness in a bit.
On May 02 2012 03:23 Mordanis wrote: 65-45 isn't as big of a split as you seem to think it is. And I'd say that the idiot is more likely to derail the process in the future, and the longer there is only one mafia in the game the more difficult I'd say it is to tell who it is. Literally all the one mafia has to do is defend himself and blend in while killing one person per night. The odds aren't that good if a few days are wasted talking about whoever the idiot is attacking. Whereas with two mafia left vs. 6 competent players, I see a much greater likelihood that the 6 can work together and find holes in the mafia's play. Long story short, this seems much more of a play-style thing than an objectively right or wrong situation. You prefer an overwhelming majority of numbers, I prefer to be able to have a group that is capable of finding the mafia through reason.
In any case though, Jailbreaker is IMO the better scum read than Nreekay, and also the worse player. But I have to agree, this lynch is going too easily. I'm going to look into any reasons why... Hopefully I'll be able to post some reasons for the easiness in a bit.
On May 02 2012 03:19 marvellosity wrote: I already explained, but in the absence of getting it through your skull I pointed out that good players simply don't do it.
I know plenty of good players, I read this forum like a whore.
No you didn't. When I gave reasons for why it benefits, you refuted saying "Good players don't do it".
Good players make reads list that include both towns and mafia. That's basic 101 Mafia.
What's wrong with making a case on why someone is a town, that's not ridiculous and it could save a mislynch.
Anyways, I'd say that there are three main players who account for how much easier this lynching has gone than the previous one. First up is Golden, who had to have his arm twisted into voting for Veriat. He however has already gone through this several times, so I'd rather not go through it again.
Next is Nreekay, everyone's favorite! Last time, Nreekay voted for WhySoMuch. He is however the other candidate up for lynching, so barring a random vote or a vote for no-lynch, he had no options besides voting for Jailbreaker. There's really no analysis that can be done past this point, that I can think of at least.
Finally there's LazerMonkey. He voted for Aces last time, and I think we can all agree that Aces/Marvellosity seem pretty town-y, simply because the probability of having 2 mafia up for lynching the first day is stupidly low. There are other reasons, but I won't go into them in this post. They are however already in the thread, so anyone can find them. For this voting cycle, LazerMonkey voted with little pressure on him, and quite a while before the deadline. I am somewhat suspicious of this, so I'll be doing some research on LazerMonkey. Right after I grab some lunch.
Also, the debate between WhySoMuch and Marvellosity (and myself, admittedly) isn't really relevant. Both parties are satisfied, and I see no reason to stir up hate over an irrelevant argument.
NO NO NOOOOOO Yes, I am a lurker. Barely have time to post with my boatload of homework!
Mordanis - Whats with all the hate?!? "if we're wrong and he turns out to be town, we aren't going to lose much." Well yeah, if you are MAFIA.
Pure-SC2 - I've been in full panic mode when players started to point at me with suspicion. I have literally no idea how to defend myself. "and no response at all to the cases made against him in conjunction with lurking, he makes by the far the best lynching candidate we have."
Splinter[eP] hasn't posted at all either, yet I'm the one with all the votes?
Lazermonkey - NOOOOOOOO You're vote still matters bro. Just because i have majority, doesn't mean that you should just jump on the bandwagon.
dude. Calm down and post your case without throwing suspicion on everyone who voted for you. There may be time to save yourself, but that didn't help at all.....
Well this is interesting, I'm almost positive Jailbreaker is flipping mafia now, and that post has significant meaning cause he knows this as he writes that post
I'm sensing a bit of a rage quit from Jailbreaker. Here's to hoping he flips red.
Even though marvellosity and I don't see eye to I on some issues, I definitely stand by his admonishment to get the lurkers back in action. @lurkers + semi-lurkers, we've only lynched lurkers so far. There is no reason to play defensively if you're town, just tell us what you think, and everything will be better for it. Its mighty hard to distinguish towny who doesn't post from mafia who doesn't post however.
On May 02 2012 06:57 Mordanis wrote: Will Splinter be rejoining us or are we going to have another new player?
Find out in the next exciting two minutes. Unless he votes he's just going to be modkilled as I don't have any subs lined up unfortunately, nor do I have time to find one.
After discovering that there were still simulants on board, the crew got worried and flew out aimlessly into space. Holly kinda fell asleep until it was woken up by the gravitational pull of a wormhole. Getting sucked in, Red Dwarf came out on the other side relatively unscathed. They landed on a planet that looked a lot like Earth, and found a path towards a city called nodnoL. Having arrived there, they noticed everyone was talking in what seemed like Bulgarian, though they also noticed that people seemed to do everything in reverse. They unread the newspapers, undrank drinks and took money from beggars. Well, the latter isn't really doing things in reverse, but this narrarator digresses.
Having inventarized that they were on a reverse Earth, they decided that it would probably be a good idea to find the simulant that's been killing the crew. They went back to the ship and held a vote by notes. Everyone turned around their notes, and it soon became clear Jailbreaker would snuff it. He tried escaping from the ship and got to the stairs before being clobbered to death by wrenches as people screamed all sorts of mean things at him, calling him things like son of a silly person and smeghead. Unfortunately, the only thing Jailbreaker was was innocent. They buried him in the woods outside of the ship and took off back into the wormhole. Oh, and they decided to stab Splinter[eP] because he was being a smegger and didn't vote. Jailbreaker the Village Townie has been lynched! Splinter[eP] the Village Townie has been modkilled! It is now Night! You have 24 hours to send in your night actions. Remember that coaching is available from prplhz, Adam4167 and Mementoss should you want to call upon their services.
6-2, this could have gone better from a 9-2 start. And its going to be 5-2. Damn. Still looks like a winnable situation, but it'll be quite a bit harder from here.
I just don't understand what else we were meant to do there. The same thing happened in the previous game that I played in, a player plays obviously scummy, becomes the obvious and easy hit, and flips town.
I had completely forgotten about Splinter until just a little bit ago, and his being modkilled really hurt us. That really changes things, as Town now really needs to get the next lynch right. It's going to be a loooong night.
marvellosity could be scum, he plays the whole "I'm not sure about voting for him" but does anyway, and then drops the line "should've trusted my instinct" in what looks like an attempt to ensure his town cred.
It basically means it's speculation that can't be substantiated. Most often used in connection cases.
Usually it involves trying to work out what someone can think - "he could post this to try to look townie, which means he could be scummy. But he could know i think it's scummy to look townie, so if he was scum he wouldn't post that. but if he knows that, then he could have posted that. but if he know that..." etc
an example in this thread WSM is Veriat's scumreads. "by posting these scumreads they'll think these guys are town when i flip. but they'll know that's what i think, so they'll think they're scum. But they also know i could think that, so they could be town" etc.
On April 28 2012 18:26 Veriat wrote: Ok here are my thoughts on who are the scum:
The_Zen_Man nreekay324 Jailbreaker
The_Zen_Man You're stance on the "lynch no lynch" discussion has left me a little puzzled, and your overall playstyle seem fishy to me, so you're getting my vote.
nreekay324 All your posts just seem off and scummy. Many of them seem rushed or flawed, and you basically just jumped the bandwagon with your early vote on Why_So_Much. On a side note i did find Why_So_Much's playstyle kind of off, but i don't think he's scum, because then why would you vote for him?
Jailbreaker You've my number 3 due to consistent flaws in your previous posts.
I'm bring this back because I think this is important.
The chances that Veriat completely ignored his team with this reads this is unlikely, there had to be some interaction between the two because I'm sure they tried to distance themselves at least somewhat.
So that leaves The_Zen_Man, nReekay, and Myself. I know I am a town, and I'm like 99% sure The_Zen_Man is a town which leaves nReeKay on there.
On May 02 2012 07:35 marvellosity wrote: an example in this thread WSM is Veriat's scumreads. "by posting these scumreads they'll think these guys are town when i flip. but they'll know that's what i think, so they'll think they're scum. But they also know i could think that, so they could be town" etc.
lol funny xpost.
I think veriat's reads are important to look at here. I would be very surpised if he did not a teammate in that list
damnit, I'm less pissed off about lynching jail breaker as I am splinter going MIA. He was mostly active it feels like he could have helped us out. My opinion on booting jail breaker was tht if he flipped mafia then I was going to aim at nreekay (autocorrect on my iPhone corrects that as meerkat) on day 3 but if he flipped town then I was going back to acesanoka(marvelossity). I just feel that I let marvelossity slide on my suspicions as he was a lot more active and I didn't read into his play as hard come day 2. Tonight I'll re-read day 2 and tomorrow I'll post what I suspect of marvel
So jailbreaker was just uncommitted to the game, as was splinter. @marvellosity- I don't really know who to lynch. There's no one in particular that stands out right now, and no more hard-lurkers. I'll have to look back at some things that stuck out to me and see if there's any cases from it.
On May 02 2012 17:35 Pure-SC2 wrote: Sadly, it looks like we learn more from Splinter's modkill (and town flip) than we do from Jailbreaker's lynch (and town flip).
Other than feeling I'm suspicious for possibly acting townie but it could be townie but it could be scummy but it could be townie, what do you think suspicions-wise?
Regarding nreekay, I read his filter in Newbie X and it read similar to this one (where he was town). The only difference was that he made a stronger case in X than he has here (vs Zealos). Not sure how worrying that is, though.
Well, I'm going through it all (haven't had as much time for this as I'd hoped so far), but believe I have it narrowed down to 2 most likely, and 3 not as likely but still suspicious reads. That's where I'm focusing my attentions for now.
You're very keen to get scum reads during the night, any particular reason why?
Well, right now I'm more concerned about doing my own analysis and preparing a post for just prior to the night post. I'm not comfortable posting my reads right now 1). Because I want to go through it further, 2). Because I don't want it available to the mafia.
Anyone fancy analysing WhySoMuch at some point? I'm not sure with my views on his views, I'll be very good at objectively working out if he's scummyscum or just crazy townie.
@Golden - You had a strong opinion and case on Aces originally on Day 1, and some uncertainties on marvellosity since. I'd like your read on Aces/marvellosity so far.
As an aside, I really don't like the way replacements work as we don't have any voting information for Aces/Marvellosity for day 1 which is the most significant evidence we have to date, and with Aces being so scummy in his play it just adds confusion regardless of what alignment marvellosity is.
Zen: I'll go back and take a look. Anything further to add or still much the same?
Pure: imo voting information is simply a not-that-strong heuristic at this stage. Scummy/townie motivations in posting is in most cases the primary evidence. FYI, I have not read Aces' filter this game. Perhaps I should. The impressions I get from the cases against him (me) from other filters is that he was a weak player and lurky. Of which I am neither.
On May 02 2012 23:43 marvellosity wrote: Zen: I'll go back and take a look. Anything further to add or still much the same?
Pure: imo voting information is simply a not-that-strong heuristic at this stage. Scummy/townie motivations in posting is in most cases the primary evidence. FYI, I have not read Aces' filter this game. Perhaps I should. The impressions I get from the cases against him (me) from other filters is that he was a weak player and lurky. Of which I am neither.
I disagree. If the day 1 vote had lynched a townie, I would agree with this. But the fact is we lynched a mafia. That means that the voting results are more significant, and the fact we have one player who didn't have to show a vote is a hole in that as far as I'm concerned which I find frustrating. Oh well, can't be changed.
Why do I think it's more significant? Because it gives you this picture to look at which then allows you to focus your investigations. And when you include the info on who has flipped town since, and factor in your own town reads, then suddenly the focus becomes more more specific.
Why do I think it's more significant? Because it gives you this picture to look at which then allows you to focus your investigations. And when you include the info on who has flipped town since, and factor in your own town reads, then suddenly the focus becomes more more specific.
Further to the bolded in particular, I am not approaching my scumhunting like this.
Why do I think it's more significant? Because it gives you this picture to look at which then allows you to focus your investigations. And when you include the info on who has flipped town since, and factor in your own town reads, then suddenly the focus becomes more more specific.
Further to the bolded in particular, I am not approaching my scumhunting like this.
I was referring to myself there. I've done complete filter reviews and have found so much contradictory posting so far. I.e., someone will have done a few things which independently look suspicious to me, but have also done things that look obviously townie to me. Therefore I'm looking at ways to focus my investigations on who I believe are the most likely scum candidates, and trying to find the pattern that exists somewhere.
I would hope we are all doing scumhunting in our own ways so that when we start posting our analysis, we can (hopefully) get independent corroboration of our reads.
Pure: a specific question for you. You seem to be quite suspicious of WhySoMuch for much of the game. I've picked out some comments in the spoilers below:
On April 28 2012 18:29 Pure-SC2 wrote: I'm getting an off read on WhySoMuch, I don't really understand it so just going to post my thoughts in case someone else can make something out of it.
So we're playing a newbie game here, for people who've played 3 or less games. yet here he is so ingrained in his Wolves/Villages thing that he can't even proof read his posts to change it to reflect the fact we're playing Mafia here, on the TL mafia forums, in which everyone else is referencing mafia/scum and townies? How many games do you have to have played to get it that ingrained in your head? And after its been mentioned by a few people, why wouldn't he make any effort to do something about it?
Yet his posts seem well thought out and carefully worded.
He goes on and asks the most basic fundamental questions that can be answered by using the tiniest bit of logical thought (how to quote posts and view more posts on a page), which doesn't line up with the fact that his posts seem to be well thought out and logical.
I don't trust him. It's like he's playing this naive, simpleton role here so that he won't come under suspicion.
On April 29 2012 04:18 Pure-SC2 wrote: In the space of 20 minutes, WhySoMuch has flipped votes 3 times. I'm getting more and more suspicious of this guy.
Then your last read on him is this:
On May 01 2012 18:08 Pure-SC2 wrote:
WhySoMuch - he is causing so much confusion and distraction with the way he is posting. I actually have a neutral read on him but my plan is to just ignore him for now. He's either playing a very deep and layered deception play or has so many bad preconceived notions of what to look for that it's just not worth engaging in. He may need to be looked at closer depending on what happens over the day/night cycle.
My spoilers are by no means all the times you've posted on WhySoMuch. You claim suspicions of his posts many times, but in your read there, he is 'neutral'. I would like an explanation, and I would like it above and beyond "he's playing weirdly" because I've not included anything on his funny fixation on town lists and what have you.
@marvellosity - Honestly, I'm struggling with WhySoMuch. I have found many of his actions suspicious (which is what you've spoilered there), but he's also posted several things which seem extremely town, leading me to getting mass confusion from his points and his reads, further leading me to wanting to ignore him at this stage.
The specific things I've found townie: - Puts me and The_Zen_Man on a never vote list. Now I know I am town, and I have a town read on TZM, and therefore I can't see a mafia stating this. - Stated his strong read that Splinter was town. Again, I can't see a scum motivation for stating this. *unless as mafia he was anticipating the mod kill/town flip and seeking to gain cred that way - but thats just WIFOM.
I really struggle with his odd logic, and as such I can't get a solid read. I'd be interested if anyone has any further suspicions against him, TZM made some good points yesterday. The vote flipping seems way more suspicious to me than Golden's vote switch that ended up lynching Veriat.
I had a theory earlier that either him or golden was scum, i.e., if one flipped town the other would flip scum, but I'm not so sure on that any more as I can't make a strong case against either.
There is a chance (and I've stated this before) that he is playing some deep deception here. I can't confirm it from the information available though so leaving it at that for now.
On May 03 2012 01:06 Pure-SC2 wrote: @marvellosity - Honestly, I'm struggling with WhySoMuch. I have found many of his actions suspicious (which is what you've spoilered there), but he's also posted several things which seem extremely town, leading me to getting mass confusion from his points and his reads, further leading me to wanting to ignore him at this stage.
The specific things I've found townie: - Puts me and The_Zen_Man on a never vote list. Now I know I am town, and I have a town read on TZM, and therefore I can't see a mafia stating this. - Stated his strong read that Splinter was town. Again, I can't see a scum motivation for stating this. *unless as mafia he was anticipating the mod kill/town flip and seeking to gain cred that way - but thats just WIFOM.
I really struggle with his odd logic, and as such I can't get a solid read. I'd be interested if anyone has any further suspicions against him, TZM made some good points yesterday. The vote flipping seems way more suspicious to me than Golden's vote switch that ended up lynching Veriat.
I had a theory earlier that either him or golden was scum, i.e., if one flipped town the other would flip scum, but I'm not so sure on that any more as I can't make a strong case against either.
There is a chance (and I've stated this before) that he is playing some deep deception here. I can't confirm it from the information available though so leaving it at that for now.
Ok, seems a decent answer :>
I noticed the Splinter thing too, but I don't necessarily have the pro-town slant on it you have. One thing to note - scum know for sure who town are, town do not.
Yup, agree with you there (hence my WIFOM comment). Just hard to imagine scum essentially making it near to impossible to lynch 3 townies. But based on other posts, definitely not outside the realms of possibility with him.
On May 03 2012 01:27 Pure-SC2 wrote: Yup, agree with you there (hence my WIFOM comment). Just hard to imagine scum essentially making it near to impossible to lynch 3 townies. But based on other posts, definitely not outside the realms of possibility with him.
You seem to have accidentally bought into WSM's townie-post logic there
I'm definitely viewing his "who looks good for voting Veriat" list as a separate entity to him calling Splinter town.
On May 03 2012 01:48 The_Zen_Man wrote: marvellosity: I will add some stuff during the day, just waiting the night out for now.
If I could make a suggestion - make/write your post and post it just before the day deadline. That way if you are killed we can still see your analysis, but it will be too late for mafia to act on any late information.
For reference, I posted one minute before day-post in Mafia LIII, and in the day-post it was revealed I had been killed.
The_Zen_Man: You have seriously tunneled on me since day one when I called you a mafia. You have looked a stuff solely from the perspective that I'm a mafia and refuse to look at how my play makes sense as a town. You haven't responded to any of my refutes and are just set that I'm a mafia. You are like 99% to be town so I urge you to spend your time elsewhere, or reread the thread and look at it from the perspective that I'm a town.
WhySoMuch: I have had a mafia vibe from you from the beginning, and much of your play is suspicous. But when i look trough your post i see it trough all perspective. The reason that i am not doing something else is because you are my strongest mafia read right now.
marvellosity: Yeah, maybe, if i just find the time to do it.
So I make that vote, write a case and then ask members of the competing wagon to switch to my mafia bro? like your ignoring major facts in all your analysis of me. Yeah I flipped flop votes, but If I knew I was bussing, I would have stood firm on Veriat to get maximum credit. And in that spot, I would never bus cause I could have easily made a case on Aces, and pushed for his lynch.
I've been bussy today, so my contribution have lacked quite alot. I hope it doesn't really matter tho since it's night anyway! Reading through the thread atm.
This began as a "re-evaluation", but ended up being a post about whysomuch. I'm dead tired after this, and I can't stay up any longer so I'm going to post it a little ways before the deadline.
Whysomuch's filter 1)There’s a lot of posts to go through. + Show Spoiler +
As I was going through the first fourth or so of the filter, I mainly saw “we must lynch D1”, “i’m new to TL and its format”, “townies do this and mafia do this” and “villages’ wolves vs towns’ mafia”. All very confusing stuff, but also distracting stuff.
1A)One thing of substance is when he votes for zen_man. + Show Spoiler +
On April 26 2012 22:51 The_Zen_Man wrote: Hey guys!
This is my first game of maifa, but i have been following other games a bit. I also think that the "no lynch" option could prove useful early in the game to avoid misslynch. The other game i was following misslynched on the first day simply because they didn't have enough information.
Someone already pointed this out and I've already stated my position but I'd like to take it a step further,
I find this post very wolfy, more so than Varient or however you spell his name who said the same thing essentially, because you aren't thinking deeper. You say in the other game they mislynched on the first day because they didn't have enough information, but how do we expect to gain information if we "No Lynch"? Day 2 will essentially be a repeat of day 1.
Also, Voting early and often leads to profit,
##VOTE: The_Zen_Man
hope i did that right
That was zen_man’s first post. whysomuch made a quick jab at him. This is similar to how yomi voted whysomuch in the beginning; for no real reason other than to progress discussion and get a read. But, it’s a disguised way for whysomuch to take a stance, with an “out”, because yomi already did this and he (with others) are confident that yomi’s play is town. (e.g. making his play town).
On April 27 2012 16:42 WhySoMuch wrote: His vote on me can't be do to lurking or it makes no sense. Why would he not vote the guy who hasn't posted yet if that was his reasoning?
I didn't really address the vote on me because I thought it was a joke vote, his reasoning that went along with it are because werewolves are gay, which isn't really much to respond to.
That said I'm willing to say Yomi is a villager albeit misguided because a wolf wouldn't vote me in that spot.
The other guys vote on me, Nreekay, is super sketch though.
2) A pivotal point is when Veriat (mafia) picks up 2 votes(yomi and mordanis), he follows up with this; + Show Spoiler +
On April 28 2012 18:03 Veriat wrote: Ok i know i have the lowest post count, but be mindfull that this is my first forum mafia game. And the reasoning behind my "only agreeing and disagreeing" posts, is because many of my thoughts have already been posted, so posting it again would just be repition, which most of the posts in the earlier pages pretty much were. And each time i go to check on the game, it has expand with a few pages, so there's been a lot of information to go through. So (watch out another agreement!) i would agree that i indeed do look very scummy atm.
But this was just an explanation on my behavior, i'll have my analysis posted soonish.
On April 28 2012 18:26 Veriat wrote: Ok here are my thoughts on who are the scum:
The_Zen_Man nreekay324 Jailbreaker
The_Zen_Man You're stance on the "lynch no lynch" discussion has left me a little puzzled, and your overall playstyle seem fishy to me, so you're getting my vote.
nreekay324 All your posts just seem off and scummy. Many of them seem rushed or flawed, and you basically just jumped the bandwagon with your early vote on Why_So_Much. On a side note i did find Why_So_Much's playstyle kind of off, but i don't think he's scum, because then why would you vote for him?
Jailbreaker You've my number 3 due to consistent flaws in your previous posts.
not concrete, but interestingly veriat followed up with this;
On April 28 2012 18:27 Veriat wrote: ##vote: The_Zen_Man
The same guy whysomuch was pressing.
I bring this up because, if whysomuch is mafia than he would have been in discussion with veriat. Meaning that voting for veriat was (probably) a unified decision to bus veriat.
On April 26 2012 22:55 Veriat wrote: Hello Everybody!
I love the theme and i'm very excited to get this show on the road! Like many here this is my first game so i'm looking forward to a good time with you fine lads (and lasses)
As Pure-SC2 said, i share his opinion on the "no lynch" vote since this is a game full of newbies like myself, and there isn't all that information up in the air the first day, which we can use to base good lynches on.
With that said, Game on and let's get the discussion going!
Veriat posted this about 5 minutes after my post, and it was also very similliar to mine. This seemed like he was bandwagoning on this idea, maybe choosing the idea which seemed at time like many people supported?
On April 26 2012 23:55 Veriat wrote: You make a good point Golden, lynching luckers would be a good alternative. We might also want to keep an eye out for people who make contentless posts, and as you said act "scummy"
Not long after that, when O.Golden_ne voiced his opinions on the matter, he changed his opinion rather quick, maybe not wanting to take a real stand in the matter, as this would put him in the spotlight.
On April 27 2012 03:10 Veriat wrote: I noticed the same yomi, they are currently lurking. And back to the "lynch, no lynch" topic, yomi you make a good point is your previous 2 post. we can't just lynch for the sake of lynching, it needs to benefit the town. And just lynching a townie and not learning anything is just a waste. so personally i'd say lynch if suspicion be, and if not? i see no point in random lynching.
His desire to be neutral is developed, as he change his opinion again. First he was for lynching lurkers, but now he only wants to lynch those who seem suspicious.
On April 28 2012 18:03 Veriat wrote: Ok i know i have the lowest post count, but be mindfull that this is my first forum mafia game. And the reasoning behind my "only agreeing and disagreeing" posts, is because many of my thoughts have already been posted, so posting it again would just be repition, which most of the posts in the earlier pages pretty much were. And each time i go to check on the game, it has expand with a few pages, so there's been a lot of information to go through. So (watch out another agreement!) i would agree that i indeed do look very scummy atm.
But this was just an explanation on my behavior, i'll have my analysis posted soonish.
In this post he states his reason for his "agreeing and disagreeing" posts, with the explanation that all of the ideas had already been posted. Surely, he must have something to add, he could atleast voice his opinions on some other players.
On April 28 2012 18:26 Veriat wrote: Ok here are my thoughts on who are the scum:
The_Zen_Man nreekay324 Jailbreaker
The_Zen_Man You're stance on the "lynch no lynch" discussion has left me a little puzzled, and your overall playstyle seem fishy to me, so you're getting my vote.
nreekay324 All your posts just seem off and scummy. Many of them seem rushed or flawed, and you basically just jumped the bandwagon with your early vote on Why_So_Much. On a side note i did find Why_So_Much's playstyle kind of off, but i don't think he's scum, because then why would you vote for him?
Jailbreaker You've my number 3 due to consistent flaws in your previous posts.
This post, and his vote is still puzzling to me. "Your overall playstyle seem fishy to me" is not a good explanation, and if you want to take a opinion you should give a good reason. Your vote on me was almost as puzzling as whysomuch, who haven't answered to why he voted for me. If you want to prove that you are townie you should vote with a good argument. Also your other "candidates" do not have any better explanations.
@WhySoMuch: I said this before, but i will say it again, please explain your vote.
On April 28 2012 18:29 Pure-SC2 wrote: I'm getting an off read on WhySoMuch, I don't really understand it so just going to post my thoughts in case someone else can make something out of it.
So we're playing a newbie game here, for people who've played 3 or less games. yet here he is so ingrained in his Wolves/Villages thing that he can't even proof read his posts to change it to reflect the fact we're playing Mafia here, on the TL mafia forums, in which everyone else is referencing mafia/scum and townies? How many games do you have to have played to get it that ingrained in your head? And after its been mentioned by a few people, why wouldn't he make any effort to do something about it?
Yet his posts seem well thought out and carefully worded.
He goes on and asks the most basic fundamental questions that can be answered by using the tiniest bit of logical thought (how to quote posts and view more posts on a page), which doesn't line up with the fact that his posts seem to be well thought out and logical.
I don't trust him. It's like he's playing this naive, simpleton role here so that he won't come under suspicion.
It's the same game, Y'all call it Mafia, We call it Werewolf. It's the same principal and I'm really confused why people are so caught up on it. This is newb game for people that have played 3 or less games ON THIS SITE. That is why I signed up for it, to get a feel for THIS SITE. So many things are different, such as requiring a Majority to lynch someone, that I think it was best to play a game like this before trying out the non-newb games. I have played over 100 games on the other forum using wolve/villager lingo, so to answer your question about 100 games to get it ingrained.
I am making an effort, every time you see the word Mafia or Town most likely I had to go back and erase wolf/villager. However sometimes I forget.
I didn't ask how to quote posts, I asked how to quote multiple posts, because on the other site, I can click a button and it will multi-quote for me. THis forum did not have it, and I was wondering what people usually do instead. As for the "All" button I probably should have figured that out, but again, on the other forum there is an option to change posts per page from 25 to 100.
On April 28 2012 18:52 The_Zen_Man wrote: Yes, but on the other hand, that might be the point. Veriat might have written that so that people would stop suspecting him. But this is all theories. He was lurking for quite a while, and when people start suspecting him he suddenly shows up with some accusations. I find that very suspicious. For these reason, im going to vote for him.
##vote: Veriat
Also Veriat, as Pure-SC2 said, please tell me what about me is "fishy".
Whysomuch, could you give me a explanation to your vote?
I have explained my vote a gazillion times already. Just because I vote you again doesn't mean I have to have different reasons than before.
I am confused though, because Veriant looks extremely bad right now. Like all his reads are justs sponges and he has no original thought, so I'm pretty sure he's a wolf. Which means you likely aren't a wolf.
##vote: Veriat
Firstly we have more (distraction) clarification/responses to the nomenclature and how to post on TL! Then, the point of the post (bolded). 2 things, 1)”you’re mafia zen_man i’m done explaining!” (look back yourselves, it’s a relatively weak case against zen_man) and 2)a self-contradiction (italicized). I can’t really make sense of the next part without getting into WIFOM, but whysomuch vote changes to Aces(now our marvellosity) and then back to Veriat.* Veriat’s pretty safe still with only (like 3-4?) votes.
Then whysomuch makes this fishy post shortly thereafter; + Show Spoiler +
On April 29 2012 04:35 WhySoMuch wrote: Alright, this is the succession of posts that make Veriat look really dba
On April 28 2012 18:03 Veriat wrote: Ok i know i have the lowest post count, but be mindfull that this is my first forum mafia game. And the reasoning behind my "only agreeing and disagreeing" posts, is because many of my thoughts have already been posted, so posting it again would just be repition, which most of the posts in the earlier pages pretty much were. And each time i go to check on the game, it has expand with a few pages, so there's been a lot of information to go through. So (watch out another agreement!) i would agree that i indeed do look very scummy atm.
But this was just an explanation on my behavior, i'll have my analysis posted soonish.
We need rto hear your thoughts. It is important that we know where you stand on people talked about in the thread, even if someone has already said it. I highly doubt you are having the same exact thoughts on the same people for the same reasons, and you can always add to the discussion by stating your thoughts.
The 2nd underlined, idk, I dont like the fact that you added the stuff in the perenthesis, just seems unecessary but meh, this post isn't wolfy, but putting this with the following post makes it look really bad.
The_Zen_Man You're stance on the "lynch no lynch" discussion has left me a little puzzled, and your overall playstyle seem fishy to me, so you're getting my vote.
nreekay324 All your posts just seem off and scummy. Many of them seem rushed or flawed, and you basically just jumped the bandwagon with your early vote on Why_So_Much. On a side note i did find Why_So_Much's playstyle kind of off, but i don't think he's scum, because then why would you vote for him?
Jailbreaker You've my number 3 due to consistent flaws in your previous posts.
Your reasoning on The_Zen man is his stance on the "lynch no lynch" was the same exact stance you had. So idk why that would make you think he's a mafia. You see I could think that, cause we have opposing views on the matter, but you two were both on the side of "no lynch" so that doesn't make sense.
Your reasoning on nreekay, you called my playstyle off therefore why is it unreasonable for someone to vote me? How can I have an off play style and not be considered a mafia? That part is contradicting.
Your 3rd mafia read, Jailbreaker, I'm just calling shenanigans on this, why don't you point out the flaws?
Overall, there were no original thoughts in his reads and they were all sponges, which make sense because that's what he said in his earlier post. But what DOESN'T make sense, is that his sponges don't match his posts. His reasoning doesn't match up with what he says earlier, meaning that he is sponging just to sponge and not thinking about it.
This is suspicious to me, because 1)whysomuch posts this as an after-he-voted post and 2)he’s so unpushy of veriat. If veriat was a real mafia read, why so weak? the push against zen_man was much harder, with less reason to be suspicious then too. It’s like setting Veriat up for a redemption post, or trying to put his post in a more-newb less-scummy light. However, there’s nothing Veriat says further from about the time he voted for zen_man all the way up to his lynch. Perhaps veriat was too busy to make a play off of whysomuch’s assist, or he just didn’t care to play anymore, or he openly told mafia to bus him. We can’t really know, and veriat died in silence. One redeeming point is that whysomuch (lightly) pushed Golden to switch his vote to veriat. This is with a grain of salt, as veriat could have asked whysomuch to bus him at this point already (assuming they planned it after this point).
In conclusion to (2), the most suspicious post I saw later was this; + Show Spoiler +
On April 29 2012 08:15 WhySoMuch wrote: Well this game just became a lot more simple.
The_Zen_Man Splinter Pure_SC Mordanis Myself
Look the best for their voting yesterday
Yomi also looks sorta good, idk how he plays and if he likes to bus or not, but he shouldn't be voted today
Golden was forced to vote him so he doesn't look any better and I would say he is a mafia with Veriat
If I had to bus my own mafia, I had better get town cred from it right? Also, completely drops his case on zen_man for voting veriat. It must have been a weak case to begin with, so no problem.
or so has more confusion/distraction posts, characterized by “spew analysis” (short comments about most (if not all) players) and this + Show Spoiler +
On April 29 2012 09:12 WhySoMuch wrote: However JailBreaker, this is exactly how a newer mafia would do it, he just throws his name out there with some lame, non existent reasoning. I am moving Jailbreaker to the mafia side for this alone.
(In reference to Veriat stating; Jailbreaker You've my number 3 due to consistent flaws in your previous posts.)
. It seems suspicious, because Jailbreaker was called out for a number of things, primarily lurking. Unfortunately he didn’t post anything substantial, and so he was lynched. But whysomuch is content with voting jailbreaker, not so much for lurking, but for the point above. He adamantly is against lynching splinter, because we shouldn’t lynch lurkers. This is suspicious to me because 1) Jailbreaker and Splinter both had to answer for their lurking 2) why not defend jailbreaker, he’s lurking as well (and doesn’t post anything until he’s pretty much already voted to be lynched), 3)what makes splinter special? This is where things get interesting, because splinter is modkilled and flipped green. Now mafia has achieved a mislynch, (unfortunately 2 cause of modkill) and Whysomuch looks good for defending splinter. Obviously whysomuch couldn’t have known that splinter would be mod-killed, but the evidence would be there for later. It’s suspicious to me, because I can’t see why he would defend splinter and not jailbreaker(at all) in that scenario.
This part is just a hunch, but if whysomuch is really mafia, then having all of our town lists would allow easy targets for the night shots. It seems relatively difficult to have a lot of convincing, for-sure, townies at once(as is it seems relatively difficult to have a lot of high rated scum at once on a list). But having 1-2 “town” reads across multiple lists makes shooting easier. I wouldn’t have been so suspicious, but whysomuch did post his townlist and ask others during a night cycle.
*Interesting thoughts; what if Aces was mafia? Extremely unlikely, yes, but it would have FORCED the mafia to bus someone because they were both top suspects.
I'm too tired to proofread it all through, I hope it makes sense though. In conclusion, I find whysomuch suspicious, but it may be confirmation bias(as I kept reading the filter, I got more and more suspicious).
I've been thinking about the D1 lynch alot. What is puzzling me is the fact that we actually got a scum on the very first day,aka very rare in mafia. Looking at the people voting we can see that:
So Veriat was scum and Jailbreaker was townie. Now if we assume that noone that voted On Veriat was scum then two of me, nreekay324 and AcesAnoka/Marvellosity must be scum.
Now as for myself, I was seriously thought that Aces was looking way scummier than Veriat at the point of the lynch. I went to bed at about 22:00 and at that point where I left there were alot of indecisiveness on who to lynch. Thus I wasn't able to change my vote, although I'm not trying to archive town cred as I still think Aces looked more scummy in D1.
While I can't be 100% sure that Marv/Aces is town, it makes alot of sense. nreekay324 could very well be scum tho. I still think that the odds of BOTH this players being scum is relativly low. + Show Spoiler +
However, it is possible now that I am actually checking filters. During the 3 pages Marv posted this far he BARLY mentions nreekay324. nreekay324 himself is at first very suspicious against Aces, although when Marv replaces him he suddenly change his mind on him to town. This is somewhat strange to me...
This means that someone in the inner circel, the ones who voted for Veriat in the first place must be scum. I still have a hard time seeing, Pure or Mordanis being scum as they were the ones who pushed for the vote at Veriat.
Note that I'm in fact not including The_Zen_Man. I'm not sure what to think anymore about him. Yes it is true that he posted the first case on Veriat but he didn't actually push the case at all after that. It was Pure and Mordanis who did. during D2 he have posted not much at all. He states that he still think that WhySomuch is scum. I feel he is tunneling a little bit to hard atm and abusing the fact that he is "forever town" after D1. This is alot of WIFOM but for me he has at least lost his never-vote status. I'd say it's most likely he is town atm but not 100%.
The other people in the circel: Golden: Still leaining town here. WhySoMuch: I'm not sure about this guy at all. As I'm lazy I will not post any evidence and such of this tho : ).
I'm thinking that one out of Golden, The_Zen_Man and WhySoMuch is probebly scum. The most likely one is WhySoMuch but I don't want to be too fast on dissmissing the others!
Why would scum push the lynch on Veriat when only a single vote either way would let him live for another day? The only player in the Veriat lynch that looks suspicious to me is WhySoMuch based on his behaviour in the lead up to the deadline.
If we look at that vote, this is what I see (colouring known town and my town reads for now):
Based on the back and forth between them, I don't think both WhySoMuch and Golden can be scum. Golden's filter reads town to me more than WhySoMuch.
I believe there is at least one scum between Lazermonkey, nreekay324 and AcesAnoka/Marvellosity.
nreekay: - Short filter - Has provided more detailed analysis as game has progressed
Lazermonkey: - Short filter - Votes on Aces for lurking, and stays with that vote. No one could convince him anyone was more suspicious than him. - References Nova/The_Zen_Man – when Nova isn’t playing the game? This might be way too circumstantial but could this possibly be a scumslip based on communicating with the admin Nova? I think he was meant to be referencing me here.
AcesAnoka/Marvellosity: - I want to believe is town, but doubts linger.
WhySoMuch: - Large filter, odd logic - Calls himself out as likely to be killed during the night and proceeds to post his reads. Obvious self town promotion - Things against him being scum: Puts me and The_Zen_Man on a never vote list. Early town read on Splinter, but this isn't conclusive.
After a long day discovering reverse Earth, the crew went back inside and sat down for some tea and biscuits. Sharing tales about how they were saddened by the death of their crewmates despite having decided on their execution themselves, they had fooled themselves into thinking they were simulants. Now that they knew they weren't, none of them could get the faces of their fallen comrades out of their heads. None, but Arnold Judas Rimmer. He couldn't resist telling the entire crew about the game of Risk he played at Cadet school all those years ago, which subsequently bored the entire crew to near death.
Due to the intense boredom of hearing about how dice were rolled for over two hours, the entire crew fell asleep. When they woke up, they noticed Rimmer was still talking about his Risk game and decided to punch him unconscious. They made a quick head count and noticed that all eight crewmembers were still alive. Though relieved, there was still work to be done to catch the last remaining simulants. Though Rimmer seemed a tempting target as he was already unconscious, they decided to go with the method that had worked for them in the past, a vote. The Day will last until Friday, May 4th at 21:59 GMT (+00:00). Voting is mandatory. Failure to vote will result in a modkill. Remember that coaching is available from our coaches Mementoss, prplhz and Adam4167, should you need advice.
I thought I was going to have more time, but my class went over. Anyways, there are two possibilities that I've been mulling over. The first is that the mafia on D1 were against lynching Veriat the first day, and that the second day went easier because they all voted for JB. What I've been thinking more and more is that pehaps Veriat didn't have time to go through this all the way, so the mafia decided to sacrifice him so they would get "cred", and that JB got easily lynched because he was town and he looked very scummy. Veriat really didn't have all that great of a case against him, and I think most of us could agree that he was lynched mostly because we needed someone to lynch and there was a pretty solid bed of support for his lynch.
Some big swings in luck have been happening. First we get scum the first day. Then we lose 3 townies in 2 cycles. Then we lose no one. Marvellosity, I'm beginning to feel what you were talking about with pure numbers, even if its only an emotion thing right now.
1) We have a veteran, You should now claim as it gives us 1 more clear person. This claim is really easy to confirm, so I'm not worried too much about fakes.
2) We have a medic. You should not hard claim, but make sure you somehow make it known who you protected last night. And everyone should "fake" angel today. Get creative in how you go about it and think about who the mafia would kill and how would an angel act in this spot.
On May 03 2012 04:35 nreekay324 wrote: This began as a "re-evaluation", but ended up being a post about whysomuch. I'm dead tired after this, and I can't stay up any longer so I'm going to post it a little ways before the deadline.
Whysomuch's filter 1)There’s a lot of posts to go through. + Show Spoiler +
As I was going through the first fourth or so of the filter, I mainly saw “we must lynch D1”, “i’m new to TL and its format”, “townies do this and mafia do this” and “villages’ wolves vs towns’ mafia”. All very confusing stuff, but also distracting stuff.
1A)One thing of substance is when he votes for zen_man. + Show Spoiler +
On April 26 2012 22:51 The_Zen_Man wrote: Hey guys!
This is my first game of maifa, but i have been following other games a bit. I also think that the "no lynch" option could prove useful early in the game to avoid misslynch. The other game i was following misslynched on the first day simply because they didn't have enough information.
Someone already pointed this out and I've already stated my position but I'd like to take it a step further,
I find this post very wolfy, more so than Varient or however you spell his name who said the same thing essentially, because you aren't thinking deeper. You say in the other game they mislynched on the first day because they didn't have enough information, but how do we expect to gain information if we "No Lynch"? Day 2 will essentially be a repeat of day 1.
Also, Voting early and often leads to profit,
##VOTE: The_Zen_Man
hope i did that right
That was zen_man’s first post. whysomuch made a quick jab at him. This is similar to how yomi voted whysomuch in the beginning; for no real reason other than to progress discussion and get a read. But, it’s a disguised way for whysomuch to take a stance, with an “out”, because yomi already did this and he (with others) are confident that yomi’s play is town. (e.g. making his play town).
On April 27 2012 16:42 WhySoMuch wrote: His vote on me can't be do to lurking or it makes no sense. Why would he not vote the guy who hasn't posted yet if that was his reasoning?
I didn't really address the vote on me because I thought it was a joke vote, his reasoning that went along with it are because werewolves are gay, which isn't really much to respond to.
That said I'm willing to say Yomi is a villager albeit misguided because a wolf wouldn't vote me in that spot.
The other guys vote on me, Nreekay, is super sketch though.
2) A pivotal point is when Veriat (mafia) picks up 2 votes(yomi and mordanis), he follows up with this; + Show Spoiler +
On April 28 2012 18:03 Veriat wrote: Ok i know i have the lowest post count, but be mindfull that this is my first forum mafia game. And the reasoning behind my "only agreeing and disagreeing" posts, is because many of my thoughts have already been posted, so posting it again would just be repition, which most of the posts in the earlier pages pretty much were. And each time i go to check on the game, it has expand with a few pages, so there's been a lot of information to go through. So (watch out another agreement!) i would agree that i indeed do look very scummy atm.
But this was just an explanation on my behavior, i'll have my analysis posted soonish.
On April 28 2012 18:26 Veriat wrote: Ok here are my thoughts on who are the scum:
The_Zen_Man nreekay324 Jailbreaker
The_Zen_Man You're stance on the "lynch no lynch" discussion has left me a little puzzled, and your overall playstyle seem fishy to me, so you're getting my vote.
nreekay324 All your posts just seem off and scummy. Many of them seem rushed or flawed, and you basically just jumped the bandwagon with your early vote on Why_So_Much. On a side note i did find Why_So_Much's playstyle kind of off, but i don't think he's scum, because then why would you vote for him?
Jailbreaker You've my number 3 due to consistent flaws in your previous posts.
not concrete, but interestingly veriat followed up with this;
On April 28 2012 18:27 Veriat wrote: ##vote: The_Zen_Man
The same guy whysomuch was pressing.
I bring this up because, if whysomuch is mafia than he would have been in discussion with veriat. Meaning that voting for veriat was (probably) a unified decision to bus veriat.
On April 26 2012 22:55 Veriat wrote: Hello Everybody!
I love the theme and i'm very excited to get this show on the road! Like many here this is my first game so i'm looking forward to a good time with you fine lads (and lasses)
As Pure-SC2 said, i share his opinion on the "no lynch" vote since this is a game full of newbies like myself, and there isn't all that information up in the air the first day, which we can use to base good lynches on.
With that said, Game on and let's get the discussion going!
Veriat posted this about 5 minutes after my post, and it was also very similliar to mine. This seemed like he was bandwagoning on this idea, maybe choosing the idea which seemed at time like many people supported?
On April 26 2012 23:55 Veriat wrote: You make a good point Golden, lynching luckers would be a good alternative. We might also want to keep an eye out for people who make contentless posts, and as you said act "scummy"
Not long after that, when O.Golden_ne voiced his opinions on the matter, he changed his opinion rather quick, maybe not wanting to take a real stand in the matter, as this would put him in the spotlight.
On April 27 2012 03:10 Veriat wrote: I noticed the same yomi, they are currently lurking. And back to the "lynch, no lynch" topic, yomi you make a good point is your previous 2 post. we can't just lynch for the sake of lynching, it needs to benefit the town. And just lynching a townie and not learning anything is just a waste. so personally i'd say lynch if suspicion be, and if not? i see no point in random lynching.
His desire to be neutral is developed, as he change his opinion again. First he was for lynching lurkers, but now he only wants to lynch those who seem suspicious.
On April 28 2012 18:03 Veriat wrote: Ok i know i have the lowest post count, but be mindfull that this is my first forum mafia game. And the reasoning behind my "only agreeing and disagreeing" posts, is because many of my thoughts have already been posted, so posting it again would just be repition, which most of the posts in the earlier pages pretty much were. And each time i go to check on the game, it has expand with a few pages, so there's been a lot of information to go through. So (watch out another agreement!) i would agree that i indeed do look very scummy atm.
But this was just an explanation on my behavior, i'll have my analysis posted soonish.
In this post he states his reason for his "agreeing and disagreeing" posts, with the explanation that all of the ideas had already been posted. Surely, he must have something to add, he could atleast voice his opinions on some other players.
On April 28 2012 18:26 Veriat wrote: Ok here are my thoughts on who are the scum:
The_Zen_Man nreekay324 Jailbreaker
The_Zen_Man You're stance on the "lynch no lynch" discussion has left me a little puzzled, and your overall playstyle seem fishy to me, so you're getting my vote.
nreekay324 All your posts just seem off and scummy. Many of them seem rushed or flawed, and you basically just jumped the bandwagon with your early vote on Why_So_Much. On a side note i did find Why_So_Much's playstyle kind of off, but i don't think he's scum, because then why would you vote for him?
Jailbreaker You've my number 3 due to consistent flaws in your previous posts.
This post, and his vote is still puzzling to me. "Your overall playstyle seem fishy to me" is not a good explanation, and if you want to take a opinion you should give a good reason. Your vote on me was almost as puzzling as whysomuch, who haven't answered to why he voted for me. If you want to prove that you are townie you should vote with a good argument. Also your other "candidates" do not have any better explanations.
@WhySoMuch: I said this before, but i will say it again, please explain your vote.
On April 28 2012 18:29 Pure-SC2 wrote: I'm getting an off read on WhySoMuch, I don't really understand it so just going to post my thoughts in case someone else can make something out of it.
So we're playing a newbie game here, for people who've played 3 or less games. yet here he is so ingrained in his Wolves/Villages thing that he can't even proof read his posts to change it to reflect the fact we're playing Mafia here, on the TL mafia forums, in which everyone else is referencing mafia/scum and townies? How many games do you have to have played to get it that ingrained in your head? And after its been mentioned by a few people, why wouldn't he make any effort to do something about it?
Yet his posts seem well thought out and carefully worded.
He goes on and asks the most basic fundamental questions that can be answered by using the tiniest bit of logical thought (how to quote posts and view more posts on a page), which doesn't line up with the fact that his posts seem to be well thought out and logical.
I don't trust him. It's like he's playing this naive, simpleton role here so that he won't come under suspicion.
It's the same game, Y'all call it Mafia, We call it Werewolf. It's the same principal and I'm really confused why people are so caught up on it. This is newb game for people that have played 3 or less games ON THIS SITE. That is why I signed up for it, to get a feel for THIS SITE. So many things are different, such as requiring a Majority to lynch someone, that I think it was best to play a game like this before trying out the non-newb games. I have played over 100 games on the other forum using wolve/villager lingo, so to answer your question about 100 games to get it ingrained.
I am making an effort, every time you see the word Mafia or Town most likely I had to go back and erase wolf/villager. However sometimes I forget.
I didn't ask how to quote posts, I asked how to quote multiple posts, because on the other site, I can click a button and it will multi-quote for me. THis forum did not have it, and I was wondering what people usually do instead. As for the "All" button I probably should have figured that out, but again, on the other forum there is an option to change posts per page from 25 to 100.
On April 28 2012 18:52 The_Zen_Man wrote: Yes, but on the other hand, that might be the point. Veriat might have written that so that people would stop suspecting him. But this is all theories. He was lurking for quite a while, and when people start suspecting him he suddenly shows up with some accusations. I find that very suspicious. For these reason, im going to vote for him.
##vote: Veriat
Also Veriat, as Pure-SC2 said, please tell me what about me is "fishy".
Whysomuch, could you give me a explanation to your vote?
I have explained my vote a gazillion times already. Just because I vote you again doesn't mean I have to have different reasons than before.
I am confused though, because Veriant looks extremely bad right now. Like all his reads are justs sponges and he has no original thought, so I'm pretty sure he's a wolf. Which means you likely aren't a wolf.
##vote: Veriat
Firstly we have more (distraction) clarification/responses to the nomenclature and how to post on TL! Then, the point of the post (bolded). 2 things, 1)”you’re mafia zen_man i’m done explaining!” (look back yourselves, it’s a relatively weak case against zen_man) and 2)a self-contradiction (italicized). I can’t really make sense of the next part without getting into WIFOM, but whysomuch vote changes to Aces(now our marvellosity) and then back to Veriat.* Veriat’s pretty safe still with only (like 3-4?) votes.
Then whysomuch makes this fishy post shortly thereafter; + Show Spoiler +
On April 29 2012 04:35 WhySoMuch wrote: Alright, this is the succession of posts that make Veriat look really dba
On April 28 2012 18:03 Veriat wrote: Ok i know i have the lowest post count, but be mindfull that this is my first forum mafia game. And the reasoning behind my "only agreeing and disagreeing" posts, is because many of my thoughts have already been posted, so posting it again would just be repition, which most of the posts in the earlier pages pretty much were. And each time i go to check on the game, it has expand with a few pages, so there's been a lot of information to go through. So (watch out another agreement!) i would agree that i indeed do look very scummy atm.
But this was just an explanation on my behavior, i'll have my analysis posted soonish.
We need rto hear your thoughts. It is important that we know where you stand on people talked about in the thread, even if someone has already said it. I highly doubt you are having the same exact thoughts on the same people for the same reasons, and you can always add to the discussion by stating your thoughts.
The 2nd underlined, idk, I dont like the fact that you added the stuff in the perenthesis, just seems unecessary but meh, this post isn't wolfy, but putting this with the following post makes it look really bad.
The_Zen_Man You're stance on the "lynch no lynch" discussion has left me a little puzzled, and your overall playstyle seem fishy to me, so you're getting my vote.
nreekay324 All your posts just seem off and scummy. Many of them seem rushed or flawed, and you basically just jumped the bandwagon with your early vote on Why_So_Much. On a side note i did find Why_So_Much's playstyle kind of off, but i don't think he's scum, because then why would you vote for him?
Jailbreaker You've my number 3 due to consistent flaws in your previous posts.
Your reasoning on The_Zen man is his stance on the "lynch no lynch" was the same exact stance you had. So idk why that would make you think he's a mafia. You see I could think that, cause we have opposing views on the matter, but you two were both on the side of "no lynch" so that doesn't make sense.
Your reasoning on nreekay, you called my playstyle off therefore why is it unreasonable for someone to vote me? How can I have an off play style and not be considered a mafia? That part is contradicting.
Your 3rd mafia read, Jailbreaker, I'm just calling shenanigans on this, why don't you point out the flaws?
Overall, there were no original thoughts in his reads and they were all sponges, which make sense because that's what he said in his earlier post. But what DOESN'T make sense, is that his sponges don't match his posts. His reasoning doesn't match up with what he says earlier, meaning that he is sponging just to sponge and not thinking about it.
This is suspicious to me, because 1)whysomuch posts this as an after-he-voted post and 2)he’s so unpushy of veriat. If veriat was a real mafia read, why so weak? the push against zen_man was much harder, with less reason to be suspicious then too. It’s like setting Veriat up for a redemption post, or trying to put his post in a more-newb less-scummy light. However, there’s nothing Veriat says further from about the time he voted for zen_man all the way up to his lynch. Perhaps veriat was too busy to make a play off of whysomuch’s assist, or he just didn’t care to play anymore, or he openly told mafia to bus him. We can’t really know, and veriat died in silence. One redeeming point is that whysomuch (lightly) pushed Golden to switch his vote to veriat. This is with a grain of salt, as veriat could have asked whysomuch to bus him at this point already (assuming they planned it after this point).
In conclusion to (2), the most suspicious post I saw later was this; + Show Spoiler +
On April 29 2012 08:15 WhySoMuch wrote: Well this game just became a lot more simple.
The_Zen_Man Splinter Pure_SC Mordanis Myself
Look the best for their voting yesterday
Yomi also looks sorta good, idk how he plays and if he likes to bus or not, but he shouldn't be voted today
Golden was forced to vote him so he doesn't look any better and I would say he is a mafia with Veriat
If I had to bus my own mafia, I had better get town cred from it right? Also, completely drops his case on zen_man for voting veriat. It must have been a weak case to begin with, so no problem.
or so has more confusion/distraction posts, characterized by “spew analysis” (short comments about most (if not all) players) and this + Show Spoiler +
On April 29 2012 09:12 WhySoMuch wrote: However JailBreaker, this is exactly how a newer mafia would do it, he just throws his name out there with some lame, non existent reasoning. I am moving Jailbreaker to the mafia side for this alone.
(In reference to Veriat stating; Jailbreaker You've my number 3 due to consistent flaws in your previous posts.)
. It seems suspicious, because Jailbreaker was called out for a number of things, primarily lurking. Unfortunately he didn’t post anything substantial, and so he was lynched. But whysomuch is content with voting jailbreaker, not so much for lurking, but for the point above. He adamantly is against lynching splinter, because we shouldn’t lynch lurkers. This is suspicious to me because 1) Jailbreaker and Splinter both had to answer for their lurking 2) why not defend jailbreaker, he’s lurking as well (and doesn’t post anything until he’s pretty much already voted to be lynched), 3)what makes splinter special? This is where things get interesting, because splinter is modkilled and flipped green. Now mafia has achieved a mislynch, (unfortunately 2 cause of modkill) and Whysomuch looks good for defending splinter. Obviously whysomuch couldn’t have known that splinter would be mod-killed, but the evidence would be there for later. It’s suspicious to me, because I can’t see why he would defend splinter and not jailbreaker(at all) in that scenario.
This part is just a hunch, but if whysomuch is really mafia, then having all of our town lists would allow easy targets for the night shots. It seems relatively difficult to have a lot of convincing, for-sure, townies at once(as is it seems relatively difficult to have a lot of high rated scum at once on a list). But having 1-2 “town” reads across multiple lists makes shooting easier. I wouldn’t have been so suspicious, but whysomuch did post his townlist and ask others during a night cycle.
*Interesting thoughts; what if Aces was mafia? Extremely unlikely, yes, but it would have FORCED the mafia to bus someone because they were both top suspects.
I'm too tired to proofread it all through, I hope it makes sense though. In conclusion, I find whysomuch suspicious, but it may be confirmation bias(as I kept reading the filter, I got more and more suspicious).
1) How is it all confusing? It's very straight forward to go through. You're merely jumping on the band-wagon that my posts are confusing to try and discredit me
2) How do those two quotes have any relevance together? Meaning, yes if we were both mafia we would have been in discussion, but how does Veriat voting the The_Zen_Man have anything to do with bussing Veriat. These actions are irrelevant to each other and the fact that you are trying to make them sound relevant is shady.
2a) Yes I completely dropped the case on The_Zen man cause things had changed. He voted a Mafia while being the first person to make a case on him, when he could have chosen anyone else. This play doesn't make sense mafia/mafia, hence I changed my read. Is it so odd to drop a read when the man starts a lynch on a mafia? There's nothing strange about that it's using common sense. Yet again, your trying to make a case against me by spinning my posts to fit your conclusions.
3) I didn't defend Splinter because he was lurking. I defended him because his play was lolobv town and people were discussing lynching him cause he was lurking. I didn't defend Jailbreaker because everything I read seemed like it came from a mafia. I made a case on why I thought Splinter was a town, thank you for quoting that so people see why I defended him and not JailBreaker
4) I had been asking people to list their towns throughout the day cycle as well, again thank you for ignoring that part. It doesn't make targets easier, Mafia look for Power Roles first, then they go after consensus town. The fact that this site doesn't do town lists is pretty frickin hilarious cause they are immensely beneficial. but I'm not gonna debate that anymore.
This is the most contrived case I've ever read, every one of your points, you spun my posts to fit your conclusions. I seriously think you could be a mafia for this but people are just gonna say that I'm mad you called me mafia, so someone else should look into it.
On a side note: I'm fairly certain the mafia are in Golden/nReeKay/Lazermonkey. I'm now 100% certain PureSC is a town though.
Lazer - I take it you didn't see where I put nreekay in my 2 man scum team with golden, then at a separate point asked him who he'd lynch and why, and then at a separate point mentioned I'd looked at his filter, then?
How many times should I be mentioning people? o.o
Also, if you think WhySoMuch is most likely scum, what's your case?
On May 03 2012 06:34 Lazermonkey wrote: Okay so here we go!
I've been thinking about the D1 lynch alot. What is puzzling me is the fact that we actually got a scum on the very first day,aka very rare in mafia. Looking at the people voting we can see that:
So Veriat was scum and Jailbreaker was townie. Now if we assume that noone that voted On Veriat was scum then two of me, nreekay324 and AcesAnoka/Marvellosity must be scum.
Now as for myself, I was seriously thought that Aces was looking way scummier than Veriat at the point of the lynch. I went to bed at about 22:00 and at that point where I left there were alot of indecisiveness on who to lynch. Thus I wasn't able to change my vote, although I'm not trying to archive town cred as I still think Aces looked more scummy in D1.
While I can't be 100% sure that Marv/Aces is town, it makes alot of sense. nreekay324 could very well be scum tho. I still think that the odds of BOTH this players being scum is relativly low. + Show Spoiler +
However, it is possible now that I am actually checking filters. During the 3 pages Marv posted this far he BARLY mentions nreekay324. nreekay324 himself is at first very suspicious against Aces, although when Marv replaces him he suddenly change his mind on him to town. This is somewhat strange to me...
This means that someone in the inner circel, the ones who voted for Veriat in the first place must be scum. I still have a hard time seeing, Pure or Mordanis being scum as they were the ones who pushed for the vote at Veriat.
Note that I'm in fact not including The_Zen_Man. I'm not sure what to think anymore about him. Yes it is true that he posted the first case on Veriat but he didn't actually push the case at all after that. It was Pure and Mordanis who did. during D2 he have posted not much at all. He states that he still think that WhySomuch is scum. I feel he is tunneling a little bit to hard atm and abusing the fact that he is "forever town" after D1. This is alot of WIFOM but for me he has at least lost his never-vote status. I'd say it's most likely he is town atm but not 100%.
The other people in the circel: Golden: Still leaining town here. WhySoMuch: I'm not sure about this guy at all. As I'm lazy I will not post any evidence and such of this tho : ).
I'm thinking that one out of Golden, The_Zen_Man and WhySoMuch is probebly scum. The most likely one is WhySoMuch but I don't want to be too fast on dissmissing the others!
Conflicting tone in this post.
You are sure that there is one scum on Veriat, and you go on to say that 4 of the 7 people (2 are dead) are some degree of town reads, and yet, you are "Not sure about this guy at all" at me. Shouldn't you be fairly sure I am a mafia? And as such shouldn't you be willing to make a case on me.
And then you go on to not limit your options by adding the underlined clause.
On April 29 2012 15:22 Lazermonkey wrote: Wow, such a nice day-1 kill! I wasn't at home last night but I followed the drama from my phone : P
On May 03 2012 06:34 Lazermonkey wrote: Okay so here we go!
I've been thinking about the D1 lynch alot. What is puzzling me is the fact that we actually got a scum on the very first day,aka very rare in mafia. Looking at the people voting we can see that:
Now as for myself, I was seriously thought that Aces was looking way scummier than Veriat at the point of the lynch. I went to bed at about 22:00 and at that point where I left there were alot of indecisiveness on who to lynch.Thus I wasn't able to change my vote, although I'm not trying to archive town cred as I still think Aces looked more scummy in D1.
*Snip*
Can I ask you something sir.
How can you follow all the drama on your phone if you are asleep?
If you weren't asleep, then you very well could have changed your vote but you didn't.
Either way you are lieing somewhere here. So why are you lieing?
I can already feel today being a good day. This is gonna get better btw. this is just the start
On April 28 2012 06:30 Lazermonkey wrote: @The_Zen_Man + Show Spoiler +
On April 28 2012 05:41 The_Zen_Man wrote: @Lazermonkey In that post a merely stated some of my opinions on some players.I posted several other similliar opinions on some other players. And concerning how i like how AcesAnoka put a pressure vote on yomi is because i liked it. We were all thinking why yomi voted, but we needed a statement from him. Also, the vote would tell us more why nreekay324 voted for whysomuch. + Show Spoiler +
On April 28 2012 05:41 The_Zen_Man wrote: @Lazermonkey In that post a merely stated some of my opinions on some players.I posted several other similliar opinions on some other players. And concerning how i like how AcesAnoka put a pressure vote on yomi is because i liked it. We were all thinking why yomi voted, but we needed a statement from him. Also, the vote would tell us more why nreekay324 voted for whysomuch. And if AcesAnoka would want to go for a bandwagon on someone, why not whysomuch, who already had 2 votes on him? That seems to me like a town behavior. Also, if i was his "scumbro", wouldnt i support his voting on yomi before? Not vote with him or something, just some few posts about it. And yet i haven't done that.
The reason for my defensive stance is beacuse i've had to explain some suspicions on me, not really any more than that. If you read my filter, you would know that. It seems like you are trying to find suspicious behavior on me, and you are not afraid on going far in your accusations. You did manage to inflate a few comments on AcesAnoka to me being his "scumbro" .Is it because on of your scum-buddies got some heat and you are trying to direct eveyones attention elsewhere? nreekay324 for example has been getting some heat lately.
Atm im not sure about you, you haven't posted enough for me to be sure of you.
That seems to me like a town behavior. Also, if i was his "scumbro", wouldnt i support his voting on yomi before? Not vote with him or something, just some few posts about it. And yet i haven't done that.
The reason for my defensive stance is beacuse i've had to explain some suspicions on me, not really any more than that. If you read my filter, you would know that. It seems like you are trying to find suspicious behavior on me, and you are not afraid on going far in your accusations. You did manage to inflate a few comments on AcesAnoka to me being his "scumbro" .Is it because on of your scum-buddies got some heat and you are trying to direct eveyones attention elsewhere? nreekay324 for example has been getting some heat lately.
Atm im not sure about you, you haven't posted enough for me to be sure of you.
I feel you are just not reading/being stupid once again here. Alot of things in this post are plain wrong.
And if AcesAnoka would want to go for a bandwagon on someone, why not whysomuch, who already had 2 votes on him?
Both of the votes on AcesAnoka(or at least Yomi's, can't say too much about nreekay324 yet) were not serious. There was never a possibilty of bandwagoning here.
Also, if i was his "scumbro", wouldnt i support his voting on yomi before? Not vote with him or something, just some few posts about it. And yet i haven't done that.
No you wouldn't. Having two people out of a sudden sharing their opinions on a weak case would make you look scummy as hell. It's a common way to play scum, you split your opinions. So this doesn't prove your innocence.
You did manage to inflate a few comments on AcesAnoka to me being his "scumbro" .Is it because on of your scum-buddies got some heat and you are trying to direct eveyones attention elsewhere? nreekay324 for example has been getting some heat lately.
I even said in my post that my case on you and AcesAnoka being scumbros were a weak one. But the fact that you are still seem to think highly of Acec just makes me wonder more.
Once again you post a somewhat confused post. It's like you aren't reading the posts well enough because you seem to miss alot of what is happening. You are still being overly defensive imo, which is not standard town play. And you always attack the one who are suspicious of you. First WhySoMuch, then nreekay324 and last me. Have it actually struck you that we might not be suspicious of you because we are scum but rather that we actually think your play is strange?
Overall I still think your just town. I don't think your play looks like town, but it doesn't look like scum either.
Going to bed now, will be much more active tommorow!
You just made an extremely long post criticizing everything that The_Zen_Man had done, You even say that he is being "overly defensive imo which is not standard town play" and yet your conclusion is that he is "just town". How is that possible?
Then your last line you say you " don't think his play looks like town, but it doesn't look like scum either", yet you still call him a town. Why are you afraid to call him mafia, you laid out almost a whole case on him and still you think he's town? it doesn't make sense.
Also your phrasing of "just town". What do you mean by this?
Hey Marvellosity, what do you think is the case? Do you think the mafia lynched veriat the first day to blend in very well, and the fairly weak case against Veriat make the lynch hard? Or do you think that the mafia made the first day hard by voting for other players/ whatever else? Either way, Town lynched JB cuz he seemed so scummy, and mafia voted for him because if they didn't they'd risk a no-lynch or something.
On May 03 2012 06:34 Lazermonkey wrote: Okay so here we go!
I've been thinking about the D1 lynch alot. What is puzzling me is the fact that we actually got a scum on the very first day,aka very rare in mafia. Looking at the people voting we can see that:
So Veriat was scum and Jailbreaker was townie. Now if we assume that noone that voted On Veriat was scum then two of me, nreekay324 and AcesAnoka/Marvellosity must be scum.
Now as for myself, I was seriously thought that Aces was looking way scummier than Veriat at the point of the lynch. I went to bed at about 22:00 and at that point where I left there were alot of indecisiveness on who to lynch. Thus I wasn't able to change my vote, although I'm not trying to archive town cred as I still think Aces looked more scummy in D1.
While I can't be 100% sure that Marv/Aces is town, it makes alot of sense. nreekay324 could very well be scum tho. I still think that the odds of BOTH this players being scum is relativly low. + Show Spoiler +
However, it is possible now that I am actually checking filters. During the 3 pages Marv posted this far he BARLY mentions nreekay324. nreekay324 himself is at first very suspicious against Aces, although when Marv replaces him he suddenly change his mind on him to town. This is somewhat strange to me...
This means that someone in the inner circel, the ones who voted for Veriat in the first place must be scum. I still have a hard time seeing, Pure or Mordanis being scum as they were the ones who pushed for the vote at Veriat.
Note that I'm in fact not including The_Zen_Man. I'm not sure what to think anymore about him. Yes it is true that he posted the first case on Veriat but he didn't actually push the case at all after that. It was Pure and Mordanis who did. during D2 he have posted not much at all. He states that he still think that WhySomuch is scum. I feel he is tunneling a little bit to hard atm and abusing the fact that he is "forever town" after D1. This is alot of WIFOM but for me he has at least lost his never-vote status. I'd say it's most likely he is town atm but not 100%.
The other people in the circel: Golden: Still leaining town here. WhySoMuch: I'm not sure about this guy at all. As I'm lazy I will not post any evidence and such of this tho : ).
I'm thinking that one out of Golden, The_Zen_Man and WhySoMuch is probebly scum. The most likely one is WhySoMuch but I don't want to be too fast on dissmissing the others!
Conflicting tone in this post.
You are sure that there is one scum on Veriat, and you go on to say that 4 of the 7 people (2 are dead) are some degree of town reads, and yet, you are "Not sure about this guy at all" at me. Shouldn't you be fairly sure I am a mafia? And as such shouldn't you be willing to make a case on me.
And then you go on to not limit your options by adding the underlined clause.
I have you as my highest scumreads atm.
What limits do you want? I'm 63% sure that you are scum atm?
On May 03 2012 06:34 Lazermonkey wrote: Okay so here we go!
I've been thinking about the D1 lynch alot. What is puzzling me is the fact that we actually got a scum on the very first day,aka very rare in mafia. Looking at the people voting we can see that:
Now as for myself, I was seriously thought that Aces was looking way scummier than Veriat at the point of the lynch. I went to bed at about 22:00 and at that point where I left there were alot of indecisiveness on who to lynch.Thus I wasn't able to change my vote, although I'm not trying to archive town cred as I still think Aces looked more scummy in D1.
*Snip*
Can I ask you something sir.
How can you follow all the drama on your phone if you are asleep?
If you weren't asleep, then you very well could have changed your vote but you didn't.
Either way you are lieing somewhere here. So why are you lieing?
I can already feel today being a good day. This is gonna get better btw. this is just the start
Because I'm scum or because I don't remember things. you choose!
On April 28 2012 06:30 Lazermonkey wrote: @The_Zen_Man + Show Spoiler +
On April 28 2012 05:41 The_Zen_Man wrote: @Lazermonkey In that post a merely stated some of my opinions on some players.I posted several other similliar opinions on some other players. And concerning how i like how AcesAnoka put a pressure vote on yomi is because i liked it. We were all thinking why yomi voted, but we needed a statement from him. Also, the vote would tell us more why nreekay324 voted for whysomuch. + Show Spoiler +
On April 28 2012 05:41 The_Zen_Man wrote: @Lazermonkey In that post a merely stated some of my opinions on some players.I posted several other similliar opinions on some other players. And concerning how i like how AcesAnoka put a pressure vote on yomi is because i liked it. We were all thinking why yomi voted, but we needed a statement from him. Also, the vote would tell us more why nreekay324 voted for whysomuch. And if AcesAnoka would want to go for a bandwagon on someone, why not whysomuch, who already had 2 votes on him? That seems to me like a town behavior. Also, if i was his "scumbro", wouldnt i support his voting on yomi before? Not vote with him or something, just some few posts about it. And yet i haven't done that.
The reason for my defensive stance is beacuse i've had to explain some suspicions on me, not really any more than that. If you read my filter, you would know that. It seems like you are trying to find suspicious behavior on me, and you are not afraid on going far in your accusations. You did manage to inflate a few comments on AcesAnoka to me being his "scumbro" .Is it because on of your scum-buddies got some heat and you are trying to direct eveyones attention elsewhere? nreekay324 for example has been getting some heat lately.
Atm im not sure about you, you haven't posted enough for me to be sure of you.
That seems to me like a town behavior. Also, if i was his "scumbro", wouldnt i support his voting on yomi before? Not vote with him or something, just some few posts about it. And yet i haven't done that.
The reason for my defensive stance is beacuse i've had to explain some suspicions on me, not really any more than that. If you read my filter, you would know that. It seems like you are trying to find suspicious behavior on me, and you are not afraid on going far in your accusations. You did manage to inflate a few comments on AcesAnoka to me being his "scumbro" .Is it because on of your scum-buddies got some heat and you are trying to direct eveyones attention elsewhere? nreekay324 for example has been getting some heat lately.
Atm im not sure about you, you haven't posted enough for me to be sure of you.
I feel you are just not reading/being stupid once again here. Alot of things in this post are plain wrong.
And if AcesAnoka would want to go for a bandwagon on someone, why not whysomuch, who already had 2 votes on him?
Both of the votes on AcesAnoka(or at least Yomi's, can't say too much about nreekay324 yet) were not serious. There was never a possibilty of bandwagoning here.
Also, if i was his "scumbro", wouldnt i support his voting on yomi before? Not vote with him or something, just some few posts about it. And yet i haven't done that.
No you wouldn't. Having two people out of a sudden sharing their opinions on a weak case would make you look scummy as hell. It's a common way to play scum, you split your opinions. So this doesn't prove your innocence.
You did manage to inflate a few comments on AcesAnoka to me being his "scumbro" .Is it because on of your scum-buddies got some heat and you are trying to direct eveyones attention elsewhere? nreekay324 for example has been getting some heat lately.
I even said in my post that my case on you and AcesAnoka being scumbros were a weak one. But the fact that you are still seem to think highly of Acec just makes me wonder more.
Once again you post a somewhat confused post. It's like you aren't reading the posts well enough because you seem to miss alot of what is happening. You are still being overly defensive imo, which is not standard town play. And you always attack the one who are suspicious of you. First WhySoMuch, then nreekay324 and last me. Have it actually struck you that we might not be suspicious of you because we are scum but rather that we actually think your play is strange?
Overall I still think your just town. I don't think your play looks like town, but it doesn't look like scum either.
Going to bed now, will be much more active tommorow!
You just made an extremely long post criticizing everything that The_Zen_Man had done, You even say that he is being "overly defensive imo which is not standard town play" and yet your conclusion is that he is "just town". How is that possible?
Then your last line you say you " don't think his play looks like town, but it doesn't look like scum either", yet you still call him a town. Why are you afraid to call him mafia, you laid out almost a whole case on him and still you think he's town? it doesn't make sense.
Also your phrasing of "just town". What do you mean by this?
Because while his play was confusing in the start, I strongly felt his motives didn't match the ones of scum. And if he were townie, which I still think although I'm not as certain as I was one day ago, I think he should step up his posting alot.
On May 03 2012 06:34 Lazermonkey wrote: Okay so here we go!
I've been thinking about the D1 lynch alot. What is puzzling me is the fact that we actually got a scum on the very first day,aka very rare in mafia. Looking at the people voting we can see that:
So Veriat was scum and Jailbreaker was townie. Now if we assume that noone that voted On Veriat was scum then two of me, nreekay324 and AcesAnoka/Marvellosity must be scum.
Now as for myself, I was seriously thought that Aces was looking way scummier than Veriat at the point of the lynch. I went to bed at about 22:00 and at that point where I left there were alot of indecisiveness on who to lynch. Thus I wasn't able to change my vote, although I'm not trying to archive town cred as I still think Aces looked more scummy in D1.
While I can't be 100% sure that Marv/Aces is town, it makes alot of sense. nreekay324 could very well be scum tho. I still think that the odds of BOTH this players being scum is relativly low. + Show Spoiler +
However, it is possible now that I am actually checking filters. During the 3 pages Marv posted this far he BARLY mentions nreekay324. nreekay324 himself is at first very suspicious against Aces, although when Marv replaces him he suddenly change his mind on him to town. This is somewhat strange to me...
This means that someone in the inner circel, the ones who voted for Veriat in the first place must be scum. I still have a hard time seeing, Pure or Mordanis being scum as they were the ones who pushed for the vote at Veriat.
Note that I'm in fact not including The_Zen_Man. I'm not sure what to think anymore about him. Yes it is true that he posted the first case on Veriat but he didn't actually push the case at all after that. It was Pure and Mordanis who did. during D2 he have posted not much at all. He states that he still think that WhySomuch is scum. I feel he is tunneling a little bit to hard atm and abusing the fact that he is "forever town" after D1. This is alot of WIFOM but for me he has at least lost his never-vote status. I'd say it's most likely he is town atm but not 100%.
The other people in the circel: Golden: Still leaining town here. WhySoMuch: I'm not sure about this guy at all. As I'm lazy I will not post any evidence and such of this tho : ).
I'm thinking that one out of Golden, The_Zen_Man and WhySoMuch is probebly scum. The most likely one is WhySoMuch but I don't want to be too fast on dissmissing the others!
Conflicting tone in this post.
You are sure that there is one scum on Veriat, and you go on to say that 4 of the 7 people (2 are dead) are some degree of town reads, and yet, you are "Not sure about this guy at all" at me. Shouldn't you be fairly sure I am a mafia? And as such shouldn't you be willing to make a case on me.
And then you go on to not limit your options by adding the underlined clause.
I have you as my highest scumreads atm.
What limits do you want? I'm 63% sure that you are scum atm?
On May 03 2012 06:34 Lazermonkey wrote: Okay so here we go!
I've been thinking about the D1 lynch alot. What is puzzling me is the fact that we actually got a scum on the very first day,aka very rare in mafia. Looking at the people voting we can see that:
Now as for myself, I was seriously thought that Aces was looking way scummier than Veriat at the point of the lynch. I went to bed at about 22:00 and at that point where I left there were alot of indecisiveness on who to lynch.Thus I wasn't able to change my vote, although I'm not trying to archive town cred as I still think Aces looked more scummy in D1.
*Snip*
Can I ask you something sir.
How can you follow all the drama on your phone if you are asleep?
If you weren't asleep, then you very well could have changed your vote but you didn't.
Either way you are lieing somewhere here. So why are you lieing?
I can already feel today being a good day. This is gonna get better btw. this is just the start
Because I'm scum or because I don't remember things. you choose!
On April 28 2012 06:30 Lazermonkey wrote: @The_Zen_Man + Show Spoiler +
On April 28 2012 05:41 The_Zen_Man wrote: @Lazermonkey In that post a merely stated some of my opinions on some players.I posted several other similliar opinions on some other players. And concerning how i like how AcesAnoka put a pressure vote on yomi is because i liked it. We were all thinking why yomi voted, but we needed a statement from him. Also, the vote would tell us more why nreekay324 voted for whysomuch. + Show Spoiler +
On April 28 2012 05:41 The_Zen_Man wrote: @Lazermonkey In that post a merely stated some of my opinions on some players.I posted several other similliar opinions on some other players. And concerning how i like how AcesAnoka put a pressure vote on yomi is because i liked it. We were all thinking why yomi voted, but we needed a statement from him. Also, the vote would tell us more why nreekay324 voted for whysomuch. And if AcesAnoka would want to go for a bandwagon on someone, why not whysomuch, who already had 2 votes on him? That seems to me like a town behavior. Also, if i was his "scumbro", wouldnt i support his voting on yomi before? Not vote with him or something, just some few posts about it. And yet i haven't done that.
The reason for my defensive stance is beacuse i've had to explain some suspicions on me, not really any more than that. If you read my filter, you would know that. It seems like you are trying to find suspicious behavior on me, and you are not afraid on going far in your accusations. You did manage to inflate a few comments on AcesAnoka to me being his "scumbro" .Is it because on of your scum-buddies got some heat and you are trying to direct eveyones attention elsewhere? nreekay324 for example has been getting some heat lately.
Atm im not sure about you, you haven't posted enough for me to be sure of you.
That seems to me like a town behavior. Also, if i was his "scumbro", wouldnt i support his voting on yomi before? Not vote with him or something, just some few posts about it. And yet i haven't done that.
The reason for my defensive stance is beacuse i've had to explain some suspicions on me, not really any more than that. If you read my filter, you would know that. It seems like you are trying to find suspicious behavior on me, and you are not afraid on going far in your accusations. You did manage to inflate a few comments on AcesAnoka to me being his "scumbro" .Is it because on of your scum-buddies got some heat and you are trying to direct eveyones attention elsewhere? nreekay324 for example has been getting some heat lately.
Atm im not sure about you, you haven't posted enough for me to be sure of you.
I feel you are just not reading/being stupid once again here. Alot of things in this post are plain wrong.
And if AcesAnoka would want to go for a bandwagon on someone, why not whysomuch, who already had 2 votes on him?
Both of the votes on AcesAnoka(or at least Yomi's, can't say too much about nreekay324 yet) were not serious. There was never a possibilty of bandwagoning here.
Also, if i was his "scumbro", wouldnt i support his voting on yomi before? Not vote with him or something, just some few posts about it. And yet i haven't done that.
No you wouldn't. Having two people out of a sudden sharing their opinions on a weak case would make you look scummy as hell. It's a common way to play scum, you split your opinions. So this doesn't prove your innocence.
You did manage to inflate a few comments on AcesAnoka to me being his "scumbro" .Is it because on of your scum-buddies got some heat and you are trying to direct eveyones attention elsewhere? nreekay324 for example has been getting some heat lately.
I even said in my post that my case on you and AcesAnoka being scumbros were a weak one. But the fact that you are still seem to think highly of Acec just makes me wonder more.
Once again you post a somewhat confused post. It's like you aren't reading the posts well enough because you seem to miss alot of what is happening. You are still being overly defensive imo, which is not standard town play. And you always attack the one who are suspicious of you. First WhySoMuch, then nreekay324 and last me. Have it actually struck you that we might not be suspicious of you because we are scum but rather that we actually think your play is strange?
Overall I still think your just town. I don't think your play looks like town, but it doesn't look like scum either.
Going to bed now, will be much more active tommorow!
You just made an extremely long post criticizing everything that The_Zen_Man had done, You even say that he is being "overly defensive imo which is not standard town play" and yet your conclusion is that he is "just town". How is that possible?
Then your last line you say you " don't think his play looks like town, but it doesn't look like scum either", yet you still call him a town. Why are you afraid to call him mafia, you laid out almost a whole case on him and still you think he's town? it doesn't make sense.
Also your phrasing of "just town". What do you mean by this?
Because while his play was confusing in the start, I strongly felt his motives didn't match the ones of scum. And if he were townie, which I still think although I'm not as certain as I was one day ago, I think he should step up his posting alot.
If he is your highest scumread, then make a case. Don't just keep saying it.
@Lazermonkey - It's not looking good. WhySoMuch has already mentioned it, but I think this requires more analysis.
So, following our day 1 lynch, you mmade the following post.
On April 29 2012 15:22 Lazermonkey wrote: Wow, such a nice day-1 kill! I wasn't at home last night but I followed the drama from my phone : P
- This clearly states that you watched the result. You weren't at home, but kept an eye on the result from your phone.
Then during your night post last night, which is essentially an analysis of the day 1 lynch, you state something that I also looked at, is that due to the nature of the Veriat vote just reaching the minimum, one assumption could be that neither of the other 2 scum voted on Veriat. As this included you, you offered the following reasoning as to why you voted Aces and didn't vote Veriat:
On May 03 2012 06:34 Lazermonkey wrote: Now as for myself, I was seriously thought that Aces was looking way scummier than Veriat at the point of the lynch. I went to bed at about 22:00 and at that point where I left there were alot of indecisiveness on who to lynch. Thus I wasn't able to change my vote, although I'm not trying to archive town cred as I still think Aces looked more scummy in D1.
- This clearly states that you were at home, and went to bed prior to the deadline, and more importantly the reasoning for stating this is to distance yourself from the the obvious conclusion, that mafia wouldn't have voted for Veriat. - You never made a case against Aces, you sponged off Golden and then settled on lurking as a reason. This sounds very different from what you stated here.
Your response to WhySoMuch who raised this was:
On May 03 2012 15:55 Lazermonkey wrote: Because I'm scum or because I don't remember things. you choose!
I have a hard time believing you don't remember the difference between being out and watching the result unfold on your phone, and being at home not watching the drama unfold and going to bed early. Especially considering you are in the middle of stating a case and trying to explain why you did something that essentially looks suspicious.
You offer the alternative that you're either scum or don't remember things. Well you kinda just offered no real option there other to see you as scum? This throwaway comment reads to me as someone being caught out on something and throwing out an extreme statement to gloss it over.
A few other things that stand out: - One of the few non-confirmed town who didn't vote Veriat. Voted Aces. States he made a case on Aces, but I don't see it, quotes one post of Aces and calls it scummy. - References Nova (the game admin) in a post - seems like an obvious mistake (and I think he meant me). - Pressured Golden after his late vote on Veriat, despite that vote actually leading to a scum lynch. - Late and very safe vote on Jailbreaker - Casting doubt on The_Zen_Man without offering anything other than he didn't push the case on Veriat. Yet his case led me to voting on Veriat. - Stating scum read against WhySoMuch without offering anything and essentially just sponging off what others have already posted.
On May 03 2012 19:46 Pure-SC2 wrote: @marvellosity - you mentioned your case would have to be tomorrow as you ran out of time last night. Looking forward to it.
Yea, I'm working on it. Current events are making it trickier than I anticipated, though. Cases and finger pointing all over the place. I must admit I had a town-read on Lazer.
Also nreekay's case on WSM needs to be properly analysed to see if it's actually a decent case or not.
On May 03 2012 06:34 Lazermonkey wrote: Okay so here we go!
I've been thinking about the D1 lynch alot. What is puzzling me is the fact that we actually got a scum on the very first day,aka very rare in mafia. Looking at the people voting we can see that:
So Veriat was scum and Jailbreaker was townie. Now if we assume that noone that voted On Veriat was scum then two of me, nreekay324 and AcesAnoka/Marvellosity must be scum.
Now as for myself, I was seriously thought that Aces was looking way scummier than Veriat at the point of the lynch. I went to bed at about 22:00 and at that point where I left there were alot of indecisiveness on who to lynch. Thus I wasn't able to change my vote, although I'm not trying to archive town cred as I still think Aces looked more scummy in D1.
While I can't be 100% sure that Marv/Aces is town, it makes alot of sense. nreekay324 could very well be scum tho. I still think that the odds of BOTH this players being scum is relativly low. + Show Spoiler +
However, it is possible now that I am actually checking filters. During the 3 pages Marv posted this far he BARLY mentions nreekay324. nreekay324 himself is at first very suspicious against Aces, although when Marv replaces him he suddenly change his mind on him to town. This is somewhat strange to me...
This means that someone in the inner circel, the ones who voted for Veriat in the first place must be scum. I still have a hard time seeing, Pure or Mordanis being scum as they were the ones who pushed for the vote at Veriat.
Note that I'm in fact not including The_Zen_Man. I'm not sure what to think anymore about him. Yes it is true that he posted the first case on Veriat but he didn't actually push the case at all after that. It was Pure and Mordanis who did. during D2 he have posted not much at all. He states that he still think that WhySomuch is scum. I feel he is tunneling a little bit to hard atm and abusing the fact that he is "forever town" after D1. This is alot of WIFOM but for me he has at least lost his never-vote status. I'd say it's most likely he is town atm but not 100%.
The other people in the circel: Golden: Still leaining town here. WhySoMuch: I'm not sure about this guy at all. As I'm lazy I will not post any evidence and such of this tho : ).
I'm thinking that one out of Golden, The_Zen_Man and WhySoMuch is probebly scum. The most likely one is WhySoMuch but I don't want to be too fast on dissmissing the others!
Lazermonkey, i don't know exactly what to make of this. I will leave the d1 lynch part for anylyzing later, now i want to answer to your "suspicions agansit me. Basically, you say that altough i made a case and voted for Veriat early i am suspicous because i didn't push for the lynch. This makes no sense, why would i write a case and vote for him if i didn't want him lynched?
Also, i have only posted one post about WhySoMuch, not tunneled him that hard. The reason i choose him is because i dind't have that strong scum reads on anyone else. But if you want me to go on other people too i can do that. I can start with you. Pure wrote a post including many suspicous things, and reading it made me very suspicous of you. Also, reading this post made me suspicous as well. I, like pure and WhySoMuch, also saw the "Watched the drama on the phone" thing, and now you say that you went to sleep 22.00?
Sorry guys, personal life has been crazy the last few days and i'm afraid i have to pull out of this Mafia game. i'm sorry everyone, things have just been crazy at home and i'm starting my new job this week and i really didn't realise how much thinking this game takes up. sorry, i hope a replacement can be found. I've PM'd artanis/
Why sign up if you can't commit time to it? I feel like I'm completely wasting my time with this when half the people can't even be bothered to put time into it.
Firstly, I would like to state that Golden is a clever and decently logical chap. I think this comes across from his posting. I am stating this as a general premise, as it removes a lot of the "what if he's just bad" possibilities from the case.
The main thrust of this case is that he posts a lot of 'content', he asks a lot of questions, but in fact does little to pin down scum.
His filter starts out with a few posts of fluff, which I won't hold against him as it's the beginning of the game. His first major post is this one. What does he say in this post, actually? From what I can see:
1) it's hard to get reads atm 2) telling people who haven't voted yet not to until later (???) 3) vague opinions on nreekay and yomi 4) a bunch of questions to other people.
Read the whole post again. What does golden think of matters? We actually have no idea. The whole post is in essence just fluff.
His next post is this:
On April 27 2012 15:05 O.Golden_ne wrote: I agree Jailbreaker, we definitely need some more discourse on people actions. If you feel this voting for yomi will pressure that conversation to happen then i'm happy for you to do that. I also see this vote as a defence of WhySoMuch from Nreekay and Yomi's 'vampires&werewolves' related votes. I really need to hear from these two as soon as possible, with as much detail as they can provide. I want these votes to have a basis rather than being emotional or defensive votes.
Nreekay and Yomi if you two are town you've a strange way of showing it. To me Town is represented by clear, concise and reasoned posts with references and the goal of enlightening the group. Voting for the sake of voting creates an atmosphere of defensive attitudes and alot of misplaced suspicions, please explain your motive.
Still waiting from answers from several people.
Golden.
Bold is my emphasis. I think we know by now that 'concise' posts are certainly not golden's forte. We'll judge a little bit later on if he has in any way managed to 'enlighten' the group. Other than that, what does his post say? It agrees town needs to talk (o rly? surely not!) and then vague, pointless analysis on some of the votes so far. He finishes by saying he's awaiting answers. Still no stances on anything.
Moving on, take a look at the post in the spoiler. Bold is again my emphasis
On April 27 2012 16:10 O.Golden_ne wrote: I'd be happy to, Mordanis.
After analysis of that post i see how you can stipulate that i was contradictory. I've stated that perhaps Jailbreakers vote against yomi is what is required to get yomi to satisfactorily explain his actions and to maybe pressure nreekay to explain himself also. I think that Jailbreakers vote may have been a bit of a knee-jerk defence of WhySoMuch, but if it yields results with yomi and nreekay then i'll allow it.
i do support a first day lynch. i dont support voting for the sake of voting. i see jailbreakers vote as an opportunity to uncover other peoples motives, even though i'd rather not have to have him pressure so hard, i'd rather we were all active and could contribute.
My opinion of current votes: yomi's vote seems emotional or just misdirected agression, i need a little more proof before offering my own opinion on that matter. werewolves being gay doesnt seem like a legitimate reason for me to vote. nreekays vote seems to be a bandwagon and baseless until otherwise proven. jailbreakers vote, while perhaps it might be in the same vain as these previous two might be what is required to show some light on both their intentions. whysomuch's vote is perhaps to deflect the attention off himself. i dont feel like he has addressed yomi's vote on him particularly.
like i said, i'm waiting to hear from all these people before casting my own judgement. to avoid voting for the sake of voting.
Does that cover it Mordanis? I think other than that slight contradiction my posts have been to the point. thoughts?
I'm not sure what Mordanis was asking, but I presume he was pushing him for being vague? Anyway, what do we have in this post - a whole bunch, again, of vague opinions on people. My first bolded section is possibly the first time he's giving an opinion on anything. But on what? He supports a lynch, and he doesn't support pointless voting. Wow. How enlightening to the group!
To the final bolded bit - his posts have been to the point. What point, may I ask?
It's about to get a bit more interesting. WSM obviously pressured him about all this, and we get the following:
On April 27 2012 17:06 O.Golden_ne wrote: Whysomuch,
I am not shrouding the fact that I havent taken any stances in fact i have made it very clear. I fully plan on making my opinions even more clear when I come up with a case. I am just not jumping to any conclusion this early in the game, before I get my facts straight. I write long posts as I don't want to be misquoted from short one liners.
Also, do you feel that my posts have been contentless or have I been helpful in analyzing the current voting against you and the others?
Golden
Now, I wasn't around day 1, but to me - no, his posts weren't helpful in their analysis. Rather they were confusing, and his questions only furthered to cause more confusion. What would have been helpful was firm stances.
Ok, but all will redeemed when, after all his 'analysis', questions, filler, and waiting, we get a nice meaty case on someone. Let's go guys!
On April 28 2012 01:54 O.Golden_ne wrote: Hi everyone,
So i've sat back and had a thought about how things are looking and here is my current read. I'm going to post my opinions before bed now, and then cast my vote tomorrow based on any discussion that ensues in the next few hours.
Reasoning: Nreekay has been very elusive. He has lurked, and then jumped on someone else's vote in a fashion that leads me to think he was aiming for a bandwagon. He has had ample time to rebut to any accusations and explain his position on WhySoMuch but has still yet to be heard from. Lurking and impulse voting, i would be happy to lynch him if he can't seriously change his act.
AcesAnoka opened with some confusing statements, then lurked hard. While i understand one can't be active 24/7 i still feel like everything he has posted has been fairly fluffy with not much of substance to it. My read on his vote on yomi is that of the two (arguabley) most suspicious player (atleast, most talked about so far) yomi and nreekay, he would prefer to pick yomi: perhaps because if nreekay is mafia he wants to keep him alive. I feel nreekay appears far more scummy than yomi, and there may be a slight correlation between these two characters.
JailBreaker's stance on yomi is reasoned on his assault on "lurkers". I felt this to be fairly aggressive play for mafia, thats why he is below the previous two. However the logic in his argument against yomi seems flawed, it appears he has targeted him solely for bandwagoning. His largest post to date appears that he is trying to appear helpful (a recurring theme) without doing a whole lot. For Jailbreaker to 'break' out of my 3rd place scum it wouldn't be hard, he would need to add a little more depth to his posting.
Thoughts everyone?
I'm reserving judgement on yomi at the present time, though his aggro play leads me to believe him to be town. His style is similar to Jailbreakers albeit it more active than re-active. The active nature makes him less suspicious to me then Jailbreakers. Currently i'm probably skeptical on yomi and he's probably next under JailBreaker.
@Splinter, @WhySoMuch, @PureSC2 i get town vibes from you three, don't let me down.. @Mordanis you seem town though i'm watching you very closely as you appear very guarded.
@Veriat @LazerMonkey You puzzle me. Get active or i'll start scrutinizing you alot harder and get a proper read on you.
God damnit, we don't even get one case, we get fingerpointing at 3 people! Let's analyse his cases:
1) Nreekay - lurky and wifom on voting patterns. 2) Aces - lurky and fluffy (!!!). Followed by wifom on voting patterns. 3) Jailbreaker - slightly odd reasoning and trying to appear helpful.
Holy shit, we wait all this time for his case, and instead we get 3 vague cases with what? calling people lurky and speculating on voting? He doesn't even bother to provide examples, just a link to their filters. Yes, we can all find the filters. But nreekay is his strongest read, right? Wrong. Followed up by another post (spoilered this time)
On April 28 2012 13:31 O.Golden_ne wrote: So we're drawing to the end of day one. There's been much debate so far, and unfortunately there are still several people who's post count and content is fairly light. I wish i had more to go by today but as i am pro-D1-lynch i feel we can still make progress on what we've got.
It's a tough call to make, whether to kill someone on the first day or not. So far everyone has had their own take on the subject and really its some of the only information with which to substantiate cases aside from lurking and early game voting. The chances of hitting a townie is a lot higher than hitting a mafia, and in another 24 hours another one of us will be dead from the mafia. So the medic should keep and eye out for those people posting the most comprehensive arguments, as this could be a target for the mafia in the early stages of the game.
as an aside, have you noticed the amusing trait of lurkers to say things like "LURKERS POST MORE!! NEED MORE CONTENT!!"
In regards to my upcoming vote my read has changed after a good sleep and re-read of events.
1. AcesAnoka 2. Nreekay324 3. Veriat
Reasoning: 1. AcesAnoka Your whole play is erratic.
You start by strangely confirming that we shouldn't lynch first day and you post that you don't want anyone to rush voting. I like the stance of not rushing voting, however if you're adding nothing to the conversation then you are just stalling everything. Amazingly you're 3rd post includes a vote. How does this logic follow?! THEN, if you take into account the person you are voting for is yomi. Yomi's playstyle is one that you have openly criticised, however it is not too unlike your own.. just with less holes in it. Next, under the pressure i put on you and a very small explanation from yomi your vote folds.
My read on you AcesAnoka is that your play reeks of either a hidden agenda (perhaps defending another scum: read Nreekay) or defensive play; Town doesn't need to be defensive.
2. Nreekay324. everything i have said previously about you i feel still stands. Your explanation post was confusing with such gems as:
I’ve alluded to before, and I’d like to state explicitly that I think no-lynch is a generally bad policy, with little exception. Other people have (whysomuch, lazermonkey) have made some points about this. It is very unlikely that by the deadline that town won’t have high-scum read targets to vote for. Sure, a mis-lynch would suck, but it’s not like we’re voting randomly. If there really aren’t clear scum choices, than we should no-lynch. This leads me to the next point, which is why I really think no-lynch is important.
i'm really not sure where you stand at all on lynching now and it feel to me that once you get a little heat you've changed your opinion to a more neutral one. That being said, you've pointed your FOS at me and PureSC2 in the same post. Making me feel you're getting emotional over being targeted as you haven't particularly substantiated any claims against either of us.
My read on you Nreekay, is you are an emotional impulsive player. You post little, and when you do post your opinions sway in the wind of what benefits you solely as a player than for town. You were effectively a lurker for a lot of the game, and this gives me little hope for you in terms of being an asset to town when the voting gets vicious.
3. Veriat Your lurking has earnt you Jailbreakers 3rd place. While his posts may have flaws, your posts have more.
Both these players seem very afraid to be lynched, and squirm under scrutiny. If AcesAnoka flips town i'll have to do a serious re-evaluate of everything.
Golden
Here his top target has changed. I find this astonishing. He spent the whole of the first day 'reading', 'analysing', getting people's answers, working things out - but in the space of consecutive posts he manages to change his mind on top scum target? Let me remind you of an earlier post:
On April 27 2012 17:06 O.Golden_ne wrote: Whysomuch,
I am not shrouding the fact that I havent taken any stances in fact i have made it very clear. I fully plan on making my opinions even more clear when I come up with a case. I am just not jumping to any conclusion this early in the game, before I get my facts straight.
Well, we can see now he didn't do anything of the sort. All his posting leans to the fact when he finally will make a case, by god will he be sure. But no, he makes 3 'cases' followed up by changing these 3 'cases' in the very next post. Yuk.
Remember I commented earlier about his only strong stances thus far being on lynching and voting?
On April 27 2012 16:10 O.Golden_ne wrote:
i do support a first day lynch.
On April 28 2012 13:31 O.Golden_ne wrote:
It's a tough call to make, whether to kill someone on the first day or not. So far everyone has had their own take on the subject and really its some of the only information with which to substantiate cases aside from lurking and early game voting. The chances of hitting a townie is a lot higher than hitting a mafia, and in another 24 hours another one of us will be dead from the mafia. So the medic should keep and eye out for those people posting the most comprehensive arguments, as this could be a target for the mafia in the early stages of the game.
We're getting down to the crunch as day 1 voting is coming to an end. We've finally worked out that nreekay AcesAnoka is golden's top read. We'd expect golden to be pushing his read now, right? Wrong.
On April 29 2012 04:03 WhySoMuch wrote: Golden, Mordanis, Lazer: Would you be willing to switch to Veriat? The_Zen has posted his case, and also if you go back and read his posts on your own, what do you think?
Veriat is my current 3rd scum-read, i would be happy to see him lynched. His behaviour and activity level isn't great as stated by several of the others. I cannot tell if he is town or mafia, but as a lurker i find him useless in the debate. In his inactivity lies his downfall, however with AcesAnoka and Nreekay it is their activity that has brought about my suspicions. Which leads me to question everyone in particular those voting for Veriat. If it comes down to AcesAnoka and Veriat do we lynch the flip-flop impulse voters who lurk and post fluff, or the absent veriat who 'stands firm' in his vote with the_zen_man and has otherwise done little.
I will change votes only until you can show me AcesAnoka is less of a threat than Veriat.
golden does very little indeed to push his top scumread, brought about from all his analysis and jumping to conclusions. No, instead he's preparing a jump to Veriat. What is this 'less of a threat'? Why aren't you pushing your read? From within the post:
On April 29 2012 04:50 O.Golden_ne wrote:
Veriat is my current 3rd scum-read, i would be happy to see him lynched.
What is this? You're so sure in your 3 scumreads (that you changed significantly within the space of 2 posts) that your 3rd read is good enough to vote for. Really?! Again, why isn't he pushing his #1 read?
On April 29 2012 06:12 O.Golden_ne wrote: @Mordanis I am willing to vote for Veriat. I've said this several times. Look, we've got one hour left.. as Veriat is on my list so i'll change my vote. I am happy to lynch him based on his general lack of team play, evident in his posts and mainly his lurking. To make this last hour easier for town i'll post my vote now so that it is confirmed. However before i do this remember that no matter what the outcome of todays lynch we have to consider Nreekay and AcesAnoka. I still have strong reads on these players and i will cross-reference their actions to how the lynch pans out when i am better rested.
If Veriat flips town i will want to question those pushing for Veriats lynch over AcesAnoka. If Veriat flips mafia perhaps our town will be a little more unified.
Either way, we will have one less voter and one less lurker.
Here comes the end of our first day.
##Unvote AcesAnoka ## Vote: Veriat
"If Veriat flips town i will want to question those pushing for Veriats lynch over AcesAnoka." - this is interesting, not for the Veriat flipping town bit, but the irony of wanting to question people pushing a read when he did nothing of the sort. From the post for emphasis
On April 29 2012 06:12 O.Golden_ne wrote: no matter what the outcome of todays lynch we have to consider Nreekay and AcesAnoka. I still have strong reads on these players
At the risk of repeating myself, where are the evidenced based cases and where is your pushing these reads?
Since we have started i have maintained an outlook preferring to take in the whole picture and analyse play before making any judgment.
This point bears repeating. His taking in the whole picture and analysing play led him to both changing the personnel and the order of his suspicions in the space of two posts.
On April 29 2012 13:38 O.Golden_ne wrote: Holy crap,
I was just away from my computer and I'm not sure if im delirious from these strange hours I've been keeping but I've had a thought and rushed back to check the thread. Please hear me out, I know it's night and it makes it a very dangerous time to be posting something like this for fear of getting shot but i really want to put it out there regardless. Here goes.
So AcesAnoka wasn't modkilled, perhaps this is because it would have led to TWO mafia being killed in the first day which is almost unheard of.
Leaves me open to a snipe tonight but I will be asking everyone for their support In a lynch of AcesAnoka in day 2.
Thoughts?
Golden
What the fuck is this? As per my intro, golden is a clever boy. But this post is unbelievably stupid wifom on why Aces got replaced and not mod-killed. What makes it so much worse is that he uses this as justification for wanting to push Aces (my) lynch. This is really scummy, folks.
On April 30 2012 10:27 O.Golden_ne wrote: This is a solid read, please re-read it as it has alot of analysis and i don't want any of it missed.
Hi again everyone, back into coherent analysis mode after a massive binge sleep and a re-set of my body clock! There are several important points worth noting for our lynch in Day 2 in regards to Veriats lynching and Yomi's assassination. I feel that i should also give my analysis on WhySoMuch as he has already voted for me today and i should post a rebut, as we need every single accurate vote today because we are 1 townie vote down out of 10. There are 8 town left and we need a majority of 6 and mafia are unlikely to vote for themselves! But let me explain that after the main analysis of this post.
In the light of Veriat's lynching:
Veriats lynching was a great positive step for the group so early on in the game. He did nothing for the group and was lurking. Now that Veriat has been evicted from the group it renders the Mafia unable to hide under the guise of lurker. The group has accurately sniped a lurker and promoted that active play is what is expected from one of us. Veriat is the prime example of a lurking, hiding mafia, now i fear we will see the rise of either of two kinds of Mafia. A soft-spoken yet explanatory "sponge" Mafia, who will easily slip into someone like WhySoMuch's ill-explained town-lists under the guise of participation and in the safety of assumed mutual innocence. Or a second type of which i have my own suspicions but i will keep to myself until i can be 100% sure. You will have to trust me on this one.
In the light of Yomi's assassination:
Unfortunately they got yomi. He was dangerous to the Mafia because he was erratic, but maybe even more dangerous because he was right. I see no reason for them to snipe yomi as a #1 priority, there were several other out-spoken target which could have yielded better results for them. I have shown a level of insight, WhySoMuch has shown to be aggro and effective in persuading votes at the end of deadline, Pure-SC2 have also given some good points. So perhaps it [i]was[i/] because of his inclination to get things right?. If you look at yomi's feed he voted WhySoMuch, Nreekay and finally Veriat. I'm glad 7 of us got to Veriat in the end, but yomi voted him first shortly after he appeared #3 on my mafia list.
Yomi's strength may have been in his ability to "get it right", however his weakness in my eyes was his little posting. It would have been great to know his thoughts after the DAY1 lynch, especially his thoughts on a top 3 suspect list.
I think that the reason they shot him was because while he may not have been a provider of new idea's, he was a provider of solid voting. Shooting an idea-provider would be greatly substantial for the Mafia in the early game so why didn't they? WhySoMuch could have been an ideal target and he even noted it himself so he binged out idea's in the night time. I thought that perhaps if WhySoMuch was shot than i would consider his idea's posted to be given a little more credence than i have (read below), but that is moot as he hasn't been shot.
THIS the fact that he wasn't shot makes him slightly suspicious, as who would be able to spew ideas in the night time and not get shot? Perhaps a Mafia who want's to incriminate someone who has been contributing to the group with a 'legitimate nightime argument' without any contest. This is highly strange behaviour. He wasn't sniped, and his idea has gone uncontested. If WhySoMuch was mafia and his position on me was known in Day 1 and i was sniped he would be considered suspicious. So he gave his idea's hoping they will be absorbed on the record, but unchallenged and so he could use them for his benefit at a later date ("oh woops we sniped a townie, what? justify why he's my target? WELL, i commented about him at night, surely he would have sniped me") all the while sniping a solid voter town.
My opinion of WhySoMuch and his vote on me.
You've tried very hard to set yourself up as the 'Champion of the Veriat lynch', however as i see it you voted 3 times yesterday within rapid succession. Then by admitting 'your townies' had voted for another player you jumped on a bandwagon, which i see as very loose play. By doing that you 'won over' a cheap sort of allegiance with these players, you seem to be trying to foster some surface level friendships with these players and then persecute me for not quickly jumping between 'bandwagons'. My vote on AcesAnoka was reasoned and explained and you've belittled it with this style of play. Yes, Veriat was mafia. Yes, i didn't change vote quickly. Is it more suspect to change votes quickly just before lynch time if you've explained your stance in great detail previously? I feel my style has been efficient in gathering information on players. I also feel that had i changed quickly you would have found me suspicious also. I was going to change votes in due course and i did, which was explained in my posts which you never seem to comprehend.
You worry me, you don't read very deeply into the game or into other peoples posts. I have had trouble with many of your responses to questions asked of you in regards to content and your stubborn attitude. I've answered your suspicions of me and you seem very against me. This stubborn attitude should be alleviated and you should read deeper into everyone's posts not just people who don't emerge on your core group of villagers. Please keep your vote on me until you decide with a little more consideration who is Mafia, because i assure you with 100% conviction i am Town, and that i am an asset to the Town.
On a side note that you've said there is a 'core group of villages emerging' with little explanation of this town list (Bar the_zen_man) compared this to the depth your 'explanation' of your vote for me. This could be worrisome as mafia could easily slip into your Town list. Your initial justification of your vote against Veriat was fairly slim which you rectified with some loose quoting, but lynching him wasn't because of your pressure on me. If you create a group of innocents in your mind please dont let this cloud your 'bull in a china shop' analysis of players.
@WhySoMuch: I am not suspicious of you as mafia. I think you are a very surface level thinking, stubborn and aggressive town. Please explain N1 to me. @People who may consider WhySoMuch suspicious: In his defence, while he may have some contradictory and flip-flop opinions towards the end of day one and had a very strong conviction to get a lynch he was much more active and aggressive than i would expect even of an aggressive mafia.
@Nreekay324 How do you reason this argument now. In the hindsight that Yomi was actually innocent. It makes your play look very squirmy under the pressure you were recieveing. Explain.
On April 28 2012 04:12 nreekay324 wrote: Both Golden and Pure SC2 cite yomi’s previous game, in which he played blantantly aggressively and voted early off of little (no) evidence. I know this, because I was in the same game yomi was in. His play severely impacted that game, and it was still on my mind in the beginning of this game. What I find interesting however, is that both Golden and PureSC2 are making the beginnings of yomi’s town case FOR him, with the previous game serving as “meta-game evidence”. This is suspicious to me. They are beginning yomi’s defense case for him, why not let him make it? Further, if yomi decided to use this “meta-game evidence to make a case for himself eventually, I would be highly suspicious of yomi, because it could be a perfect mafia play. If other “townies” began the defense for yomi, it’d go down a lot better. However, I can’t make a claim against yomi because he really hasn’t said much. So, ##FOS: Golden, PureSC2.
What a fucking huge post. But what's in it? A bunch of speculation on the lynch and yomi's death. Some kind of long answer to WhySoMuch. But what of his scumreads? We have two lines that vaguely fingerpoint at nreekay. And absolutely nothing on his top scumread, Aces. I don't even know how it's possible to make such a long post without pushing scumreads at all - the mind boggles.
On May 01 2012 11:23 O.Golden_ne wrote:
1. Nreekay324
You posted a decent argument against Jailbreaker in a spoiler on your D1 Summary post. Nreekay324's Filter What would it take to change your vote from AcesAnoka (marvellosity) in the same post, to Jailbreaker? I feel like your argument against Jailbreaker looks stronger than this one against AcesAnoka (marvellosity):
A number of arguments have been made, and not much to add to them because he hasn’t been posting much. He, like other lurkers, should be pressured D2. What got the successful D1 lynch was from pressuring lurkers (yomi called out veriat for this very reason). We need to keep this up.
Let's look at this. As far as I can see, here he is asking his #2 scumread to take his vote off his #1 scumread on the basis of his case against Jailbreaker. What has golden had to say about Jailbreaker? Jack shit except for his vague fingerpointing earlier (which he effectively removed by replacing Jailbreaker with Veriat).
On May 02 2012 10:24 O.Golden_ne wrote: damnit, I'm less pissed off about lynching jail breaker as I am splinter going MIA. He was mostly active it feels like he could have helped us out. My opinion on booting jail breaker was tht if he flipped mafia then I was going to aim at nreekay (autocorrect on my iPhone corrects that as meerkat) on day 3 but if he flipped town then I was going back to acesanoka(marvelossity). I just feel that I let marvelossity slide on my suspicions as he was a lot more active and I didn't read into his play as hard come day 2. Tonight I'll re-read day 2 and tomorrow I'll post what I suspect of marvel
RIP yomi RIP jailbreaker RIP splinter
Golden
This post just reeks of scum. Look at his stance on Jailbreaker - "if he flipped scum... if he flipped town". It very much sounds like he wasn't voting for Jailbreaker because he was convinced he's scum, but kinda... just because. He posted nothing himself on why Jailbreaker should be scum. Day 1 he let the Veriat lynch go through without pushing his reads. Day 2 he was happy with the Jailbreaker lynch despite not actually calling him scummy and again failing to push his own reads in any way.
Summary: Golden makes very long posts, often mostly fluff, speculation, or questions. He happily bandwagons on to votes. He never makes a substantial case against anyone and he never pushes his own reads, which aren't even solid when they are promised. Effectively, he has done nothing to hunt scum.
This guy is super scummy.
##Vote: O.golden_ne (or whomever his replacement is)
Looks a good case to me. You highlighted some points that went way over my head in my own review of Golden's filter. Will enjoy a nice cuppa tea and then go through it again and check it against my own thoughts.
Only thing I really don't get, why would he switch vote to Veriat? Even if Veriat looked suspicious, if he didn't get voted day 1 he'd still have to be voted for day 2, meaning more mafia in the game for longer.
On May 03 2012 23:32 Pure-SC2 wrote: Looks a good case to me. You highlighted some points that went way over my head in my own review of Golden's filter. Will enjoy a nice cuppa tea and then go through it again and check it against my own thoughts.
Only thing I really don't get, why would he switch vote to Veriat? Even if Veriat looked suspicious, if he didn't get voted day 1 he'd still have to be voted for day 2, meaning more mafia in the game for longer.
Well you know I don't much like to speculate on voting, but
1) gaining cred for a scum lynch 2) assessing Veriat as a liability, so bussing him to deal with it now and for 1)
Looking at possible connections between Golden and Lazer
- Lazer states 3 separate times a town read on Golden. He does put some pressure on Golden for his late vote on Veriat. - Mentions Lazer only once, early on with 2 others saying they needed to post more. Never responds to Lazers pressure on him related to the vote on Veriat.
Nothing else I can really see there. They come across as essentially invisible to each other.
EBWOP: Golden mentions Lazer only once, early on with 2 others saying they needed to post more. Never responds to Lazers pressure on him related to the vote on Veriat.
On May 04 2012 01:04 Pure-SC2 wrote: EBWOP: Golden mentions Lazer only once, early on with 2 others saying they needed to post more. Never responds to Lazers pressure on him related to the vote on Veriat.
@PureSC2. sorry buddy, i was really enjoying myself with the game. but some unexpected personal things have come up. i'll sign up for another when everything has stabilised. gl finding mafia. (marvelossity i look forward to playing in a game with you in the future, i like your writing and game style)
On May 04 2012 01:17 Pure-SC2 wrote: Yea, but I like pretty pictures in my head where everything lines up and looks... pretty.
I counter your pretty pictures with Newbie VIII where town raped themselves by connecting people who hadn't even flipped yet. Imo it's newbie town's #1 error in general.
What limits do you want? I'm 63% sure that you are scum atm?
*Snip*
Because I'm scum or because I don't remember things. you choose!4
*snip*
Because while his play was confusing in the start, I strongly felt his motives didn't match the ones of scum. And if he were townie, which I still think although I'm not as certain as I was one day ago, I think he should step up his posting alot.
@Lazermoneky, You said that later on in your post but how come your conclusion on me was "I'm not sure on this guy at all". Why were you afraid to call me a mafia in your conclusion?
2) I'm leaning toward the former heavily. If you didn't remember why would you add a clause about not being around to change your vote, you were purposely trying to deceive us in some way there.
Lol, yes of course, I think Golden has been a mafia since day 2 but figured it was fruitless to push the point.
I agree with everything you've said in your post, but I think Lazer is more likely to be a mafia at this point. Town don't lie about things that Lazer has clearly lied about. Mixed with all of his other posts, his play doesn't make sense as a Town.
However,We need 5 of 6 town votes to lynch a mafia today so I will switch to Golden if he appears to be more likely lynch then lazer.
On May 04 2012 02:15 WhySoMuch wrote: Lol, yes of course, I think Golden has been a mafia since day 2 but figured it was fruitless to push the point.
I agree with everything you've said in your post, but I think Lazer is more likely to be a mafia at this point. Town don't lie about things that Lazer has clearly lied about. Mixed with all of his other posts, his play doesn't make sense as a Town.
However,We need 5 of 6 town votes to lynch a mafia today so I will switch to Golden if he appears to be more likely lynch then lazer.
What did he lie about? The fact he may or may not have gone to bed? Or something else I missed.
If you agree with my case, I would think it's rather more compelling than the one on Lazer.
I am happy to discuss lynch candidates, but if we're going to lynch Lazer I want a consolidated case from you of why we should do so rather than golden, with evidence and stuffs.
Read through the thread since last night, and it’s nice to see we're all alive. This evens out the modkill of Splinter (numerically).
@whysomuch- First, I was just wondering what faking angel is? Is that like, faking that we were medic-protected over the night? In regards to my post it was really just an analysis of parts of your filter; sure it was in a scummy light, but as I kept looking through it that’s how I felt your posts were. I wanted other people to comment and look at it, and see if it had any merit or if I had some tunnel-vision. That’s why I didn’t conclude anything at the time.
Can anyone give me some feedback on my analysis of whysomuch?
Lazer’s contradiction is pretty bad. But I find Lazer’s follow up post after whysomuch points out this contradiction pretty interesting. There’s no defense in it, and it seems almost, emotional. Why just give up? It’s almost like when jailbreaker popped in to “defend” himself when he was going to be lynched.
@marvellosity- your case against Golden is pretty solid. (note; I think i’m going to format my analysis posts more like yours). I personally had this lingering town-read towards him, because his posts were really clear and well-written, especially when it was kinda chaotic in the beginning + he vote changed to veriat as the last vote. Although, he clearly would have used this to his advantage. I think it’s the best case we have right now, too.
I’ll try do some analysis after I wake up, and probably vote for someone then. Hopefully we'll have a confirmed verdict from Artanis/Nova about what's going on with Golden, and I can re-evaluate WSM then. Right now I'm leaning towards voting for Golden.
On May 04 2012 02:39 nreekay324 wrote: Read through the thread since last night, and it’s nice to see we're all alive. This evens out the modkill of Splinter (numerically).
@whysomuch- First, I was just wondering what faking angel is? Is that like, faking that we were medic-protected over the night?
What I meant is to pretend that you are the angel that protected someone from getting killed, If you are the angel, you are now sure that whoever you protected is a town, therefore leave some sort of subtle clue on who you "protected".
If golden's out, what will we need the majority vote to be for this upcoming lynch?
@marvellosity- Lazer contradicted himself, originally he stated he wasn't at his computer (checked it on his phone) at the D1 deadline, then in a more recent post he said he was at home, but already went to sleep, at the D1 deadline.
On May 04 2012 02:45 marvellosity wrote: WSM: please give me a link to your case.
I had a look at your filter and I see a mish-mash of general accusations without anything substantial, but I may have missed it somehow.
It's the two posts you call "general accusations". I don't need to write out a long post in order for it to be a case.
Why do you think Lazer is a town?
Ok, let me get this straight. You are convinced Lazer is mafia because he went to bed (read: he did not say asleep) and caught up on the thread on his phone and because he criticised Zen's play but doesn't have a mafia read on him (which he explained subsequently).
Yet you think Golden is mafia, you agree with everything I said in my case, yet Lazer is still the best target? I don't get it.
I don't believe Lazer is town necessarily, I just don't think the burden of evidence on him is higher than that of Golden.
Why do you think Lazer is more likely given you have thought of Golden as scum + you agree with my case?
On May 04 2012 02:43 WhySoMuch wrote: What I meant is to pretend that you are the angel that protected someone from getting killed, If you are the angel, you are now sure that whoever you protected is a town, therefore leave some sort of subtle clue on who you "protected".
Okay, angel=medic, I get what you were saying now. But, isn't that kinda detrimental to the town if the angel/medic does that? I mean the best we gain is a confirmed townie through the clues. But if the mafia reads up on these clues, then they have an easy target (the medic). Also, if we, as a town, try to help cover it up by throwing out decoy clues, then doesn't that just muddy up everything and give the mafia a chance to throw out decoy clues that could be really misleading to us? Anyway, this could be arbitrary as there could be a veteran that took the hit.
Is Golden definitely out? I'm sort of worried that he's saying that he's just saying he's going to leave so we don't vote for him, and I'd love a host to explain what the situation is, just so we all know everything that's happening.
If golden is definitely out, I see no reason to lynch him. If he isn't out, then I'll have to read Marv's case closer and read through his filter myself.
Ok, let me get this straight. You are convinced Lazer is mafia because he went to bed (read: he did not say asleep) and caught up on the thread on his phone and because he criticised Zen's play but doesn't have a mafia read on him (which he explained subsequently).
Yet you think Golden is mafia, you agree with everything I said in my case, yet Lazer is still the best target? I don't get it.
I don't believe Lazer is town necessarily, I just don't think the burden of evidence on him is higher than that of Golden.
Why do you think Lazer is more likely given you have thought of Golden as scum + you agree with my case?
He said he went to bed and couldn't change his vote. Therefore I assumed he meant went to sleep. I'm sorry if this is wrong to assume.
Because you're assuming Quantity of Evidence is better than Quality of Evidence. Yes, there are lot of suspicious things Golden has done, I have pointed them out myself, but people said I used stupid logic to get there. So I see where you're coming from. I think he's mafia.
But, this one slip-up from Lazer is huge. Like a Town never does this. He purposely lied in order to escape suspicion. That is Mafia slip 99% of the time. So yes, I think Lazer is more likely to be mafia than Golden. I don't need a fancy case to say so.
When have you ever seen a town lie about where he was when a mafia got lynched in order to escape suspicion? It doesn't happen. It doesn't even happen when a town gets lynch. Town don't lie about this stuff.
On May 04 2012 02:43 WhySoMuch wrote: What I meant is to pretend that you are the angel that protected someone from getting killed, If you are the angel, you are now sure that whoever you protected is a town, therefore leave some sort of subtle clue on who you "protected".
Okay, angel=medic, I get what you were saying now. But, isn't that kinda detrimental to the town if the angel/medic does that? I mean the best we gain is a confirmed townie through the clues. But if the mafia reads up on these clues, then they have an easy target (the medic). Also, if we, as a town, try to help cover it up by throwing out decoy clues, then doesn't that just muddy up everything and give the mafia a chance to throw out decoy clues that could be really misleading to us? Anyway, this could be arbitrary as there could be a veteran that took the hit.
Right they do, but the medic is going to be leaving a clue anyways, so it's the best that we can do.
And no it doesn't really muddy everything up, mafia can't really give clues that will mislead us because the only way the clues come in to play is if they are Night killed, and Mafia won't be night killed
On May 04 2012 02:43 WhySoMuch wrote: What I meant is to pretend that you are the angel that protected someone from getting killed, If you are the angel, you are now sure that whoever you protected is a town, therefore leave some sort of subtle clue on who you "protected".
Okay, angel=medic, I get what you were saying now. But, isn't that kinda detrimental to the town if the angel/medic does that? I mean the best we gain is a confirmed townie through the clues. But if the mafia reads up on these clues, then they have an easy target (the medic). Also, if we, as a town, try to help cover it up by throwing out decoy clues, then doesn't that just muddy up everything and give the mafia a chance to throw out decoy clues that could be really misleading to us? Anyway, this could be arbitrary as there could be a veteran that took the hit.
This conversation is interesting, because after the day post I was quite close to suggesting that the medic claim.
Because barring a counter-claim, having 2 very likely townies is very useful for narrowing down the search.
In the end my plan was to ask the medic to claim right at the end of the next night - that way he still gets his actions in, can tell us what he's done, and as we'll have 1 less (probably 2 less after night) players, narrowing down the field is very helpful.
I hadn't actually realised Veteran was possible in this setup - probably Veteran shoud just be quiet and take the hits I guess.
Re: breadcrumbs/'subtle clues' - the point is that you shouldn't be able to find them easily by just reading posts, but once pointed out the pattern is clear.
Mordanis - marv is fine. We should lynch him because he's scum and not worry about if he's getting mod-killed.
WSM - My evidence was both quantity and quality. "I don't need a fancy case" does NOT persuade the rest of town to vote along with you, and if you really think someone is scum, you should want town to vote with you.
I also don't put as much faith into this 'lie' as you put it.
My other half regularly goes to bed and reads twitter/other shit on his phone before he sleeps.
I don't like the idea of lynching someone for what may or may not be a 'lie' when my case brings recurring and hard evidence of golden's failure to scumhunt.
Yes, I know, I go to bed and spend 30 min on my phone, but he said he couldn't change his vote. That is the whole part that makes this scummy. You can't follow along and then not be able to change his vote.
On May 04 2012 03:15 WhySoMuch wrote: Yes, I know, I go to bed and spend 30 min on my phone, but he said he couldn't change his vote. That is the whole part that makes this scummy. You can't follow along and then not be able to change his vote.
I obviously hadn't looked at your post clearly enough. I thought the lie was simply he went asleep but also followed the thread.
Right, it looks pretty bad.
At the very least he needs to respond to it, which he has not.
On my phone so excuse brevity. Look at what I posted/quoted on Lazer.
Initially states he is out (not home) and following on mobile. Then, when making his case on why he was one of the ones who didnt vote Veriat, says he was home, and didnt follow it as he went to bed early.
On May 04 2012 03:46 Pure-SC2 wrote: On my phone so excuse brevity. Look at what I posted/quoted on Lazer.
Initially states he is out (not home) and following on mobile. Then, when making his case on why he was one of the ones who didnt vote Veriat, says he was home, and didnt follow it as he went to bed early.
This is a massive difference.
Unless I'm mistaken, he didn't say he was home - he just said he went to bed early.
But yes, I do agree with you/WSM that it looks pretty nasty.
On May 04 2012 03:04 Mordanis wrote: Is Golden definitely out? I'm sort of worried that he's saying that he's just saying he's going to leave so we don't vote for him, and I'd love a host to explain what the situation is, just so we all know everything that's happening.
If golden is definitely out, I see no reason to lynch him. If he isn't out, then I'll have to read Marv's case closer and read through his filter myself.
can only assume that he PMed artanis about this, as i have recieved nothing. therefore, we will have to wait for artanis to give an answer as to whether or not he will be modkilled or replaced. in the OP are rules regarding cheating, including getting yourself modkilled to benefit your team. just something dor everyone to note. Later there is playing for your win condition. do it. if anyone needs to PM a host related to complaints in the game or modkills or having to leave, I would appreciate it if you would PM me as well, to avoid situations like this..
I have been PMed about it and we're looking for a replacement. If none will be found, he will be modkilled after the lynch takes effect. Apologies for not posting this earlier, I missed the question.
On April 27 2012 04:33 Jailbreaker wrote: with all this nonsense talk about scheduals and lynch/no lynch, we're forgetting about the real issue here:
THERE'S MAFIA SCUM AMONG US.
I know it is day one, but does it have to be so passive? I don't want to vote for the wrong person based on three posts
But yet your own post doesn't really contribute much at all. If you think not enough people are posting or that they are posting useless stuff, wouldn't it be better if you did some analysis yourself? I think everyone are conscious about that we have mafia among us and everyone would like to avoid dumb misslynches. You are stating the obvious here.
Your post is even a bit counterproductive in that you discouraging people from making posts about lynch/no lynch. Afaik there isn't much else to talk about atm but please let us know if there is something. Talking about peoples opinions about lynching gives us a tell on their gameplan/motives etc. so I find nothing bad with it.
I'm off to bed now. There is a chance that I will not be able to post to much untill 20:00 CEST tomorrow.
so reading through, I dislike this post from lazermonkey
he attacks known townsperson jailbreaker for trying to start some real discussions on the ppls roles instead of just talking about mechanics. he's not even discouraging the advice, he's just pointing out some perceived hypocrisy in his post. The problem with that is that his post is jailbreakers post is ACTUALLY helpful. It's most likely role neutral, but a townsperson is more likely to see the good with the bad. Mafia see the bad and ignore the good.
He also says "i think everyone are conscious..." which can be a mafia tell sometimes. The reasoning behind it is that his post looks over edited, and if I had to guess, I would say that he replaced "everyone" for "townspeople" and mafia would be more likely to remove that in fear they might get attacked for it in some way
I vote for Yomi because I feel like you are starting a bandwagon against whysomuch so early in the game then he asks why i voted for him. I think that is suspicious.
- On top of that you've tried to shut down valid discussion on no lynch, and have stated you don't care if we miss-lynch because collateral damage happens.
I'm not sure about you. Seems too aggressive to be scummy, but something seems off.
I don't like the last sentence from Pure
can someone tell me a little bit about Pure's game?
If he's a good towny then the last sentence is scummy. He obviously sees the aggression of the dude he's quoting as towny but is reluctant to give the read. It almost reads angry, like he knows he can't get away with pushing him because he's clearing himself with aggression
reread some of acesanoka/marvellosity and think he's a likely townsperson based on the fact that he said it was his first game and a comment he made that showed how he was thinking about how ppl perceive themselves in the game, and things they do to not get lynched. (we lynch ppl right? I can say that?)
whysomuch is likely a villager too based on my experience with him and what I've seen from him so far in the thread
On April 28 2012 04:53 Lazermonkey wrote: Reading through the thread more closely this time.
@AcesAnoka - His posts are just scummier and scummier. Something to add on the case against him are the last posts before he goes to bed. He first is very suspicious about yomi, but when both Golden and Splinter posts some good cases against him he quickly responds with:
I haven't thought of it the way you just posted, Yomi.
I need nreekay to explain himself though.
I understand that he needs to go to bed but basically what he does is fleeing from all the allegations by saying '' this case was bad, hope u forget about it till tomorrow''.
@The_Zen_Man Must say that he is acting way to defensive atm. At least if he is in fact a towine. Up untill just an hour ago all he had posted was defensive posts in response to WhySoMuch. He then makes a summary posts which just made me even more puzzled. His conclusions just seem to be way off. The one I was most suprised about was:
On April 28 2012 03:05 The_Zen_Man wrote: AcesAnoka: You seem suspicous to me. You're first comment was rather strange, but i know you shoulnd't judge someone too much based on what they first wrote. I think it was a good thing you put that pressure vote on yomi, after all it did give a response from him.
It's almost like you didn't read anything but the very first pages. Alot of people, me including, have been thinking that AcecAnoka's behavior was more then just strange. This is NOT only due to his first post but mostly due to the yomi-debate. And I don't understand what you mean with I think it was a good thing you put that pressure vote on yomi, after all it did give a response from him.. The only thing yomi said was what everyone was thinking: that he was just trying to start a discussion.
Now this is alot WIFOM. But it IS possible that AcesAnoka were trying to go for a cheap bandwagon on yomi and when he realized that it all failed utterly he was quick to abandon the ship. His scumbro The_Zen_Man tries to to cover his teammate by giving him a relativelynice review in his summary post.
Imo The_Zen_Man seems like a confused townie tho and not lynch worthy at all atm. AcecAnoka on the other hand seems quite a bit suspicious to me still.
reread a little more of lazermonkey because of that other post I quoted earlier and cus I saw whysomuch voting him and think this post is interesting.
Lazer post is a defence of zen_man with an attack on aces (who I think is a likely towno). It's interesting because both cases are very thin and he has fairly strong opinions in opposite directions on each of them.
If Lazer is a scummo, he's very unlikely to take this position if aces and zenman are both towndawgs. It's too viable for ppl to go either way on both of these ppl for him to take such a hard stance on them if they were both townspeople. Scum will either back off on these ppl to let the townsos make a bad decision, or they will chose the line of reasoning that makes either of them more likely to be scum.
SOOO given my initial reads on lazer and aces, if lazer flips scum, we can probably turbolynch thezenman the next day
On April 28 2012 03:05 The_Zen_Man wrote: If i have seemed inactive, i will try to make up for it now. Below i will give my opinions on a few players.
WhySoMuch: I still find it strange that you were so aggresive towards me early in the game after i had only posted one post. I also find it strange that you barely mentioned Veriat who's first post was very similliar to mine. Said this before, but can you please explain you're actions here? Also, why didn't you aske yomi for further explination on his vote on you? Instead you voted on me and had some few posts where you conversed with yomi. This also seemed strange to me. Please explain.
Yomi: Not 100% sure on you, but you seem to aggressive for being mafia. Maybe you should have given a better explanation than the one you gave when you voted.
LazerMonkey: You seem to be very busy irl, but you could try to contribute a little. So far, i don't think you have contributed much at all.
AcesAnoka: You seem suspicous to me. You're first comment was rather strange, but i know you shoulnd't judge someone too much based on what they first wrote. I think it was a good thing you put that pressure vote on yomi, after all it did give a response from him.
Veriat: I find it strange that you posted a very similliar post just after mine. I do however like your post where you explain how we would gain information if nolynch. Try to contribute more.
O.Golden_ne: I like your playing style. You encourage everyone to stay calm when they seem emotional and explain themselves when they seem suspicous.
Pure-SC2: You have very good analytical posts, and you are one of the players that contribute the most. Keep it up!
nreekay324 : Im not sure if you are lurking or just not able to post, but you seem really suspicious at the moment. Please explain yourself, and also your vote.
##Vote: The_Zen_Man
this dude is nearly always a wolf
skimmed all of his posts. super defensive and super concerned with how he's coming across. All his defences are him basically saying stuff like "why would I do that as a scum" when the answer to that is obviously so that you could say that when being pushed.
as for the actual post I quoted, it's a common things scum do. They make a list with a bunch of ppl on it and say a sentence or 2 about each of them. The problem is that there aren't any reads there. They're all summaries or suggestions or questions.
On May 04 2012 09:58 SexDoll wrote: I see there are a bunch of claimable roles
whysomuch, has anyone claimed or anything?
are there any specific rules you think I might not know that I should?
No one has claimed anything yet. Angel protected the right person yesterday or the town has a veteran.
1) You have to get a Majority on someone in order for them to be lynched. This is insanely prowolf so I have no idea how town are suppose to win these things
2) They don't like lists.
3) They don't like short posts
4) You can talk during night
5) You don't have to f5 the thread, I assure nothing has happened. Could go 6 hours without a post.
On April 26 2012 22:51 The_Zen_Man wrote: Hey guys!
This is my first game of maifa, but i have been following other games a bit. I also think that the "no lynch" option could prove useful early in the game to avoid misslynch. The other game i was following misslynched on the first day simply because they didn't have enough information.
On April 27 2012 19:16 The_Zen_Man wrote: First, i would like to say that the reason for the time it took for this respond is beacause school/sleep. Im currently still in school, but i found time to post this.
WhySoMuch: I understand that my first post would seem suspicous, but i think u misunderstood me. I simply don't want a lynch just for the sake of lynch. If we have information, or if we are sure we would gain some information by lynching then we should do it. But if we just lynch someone because we don't have anyone else, that would probably result in a townie dead. Early in the game that kind of information might not be available, that is why i said nolynch could be useful early. Also, i understand that u voted for me to pressure me to respond, but if you still choose to keep voting on me you should give me a better explination.
I can't post for a few hours, but when i get home i will post some more including my thouhts on some other people.
And from that point on you're on the defensive, not added to the discussion but simply defending your self in multiple posts. To me this just looks scummy, you open being pro "no lynch" because you're scared it might hit you our one of your fellow scum. And then you're playing defensive trying devirt the attention somewhere else, like just now that i vote for you, you panic vote me back, and try to divert the attention to me, now that i've called you out.
And on a side note i know i shared your opinion on the whole D1 lynch discussion, but i my previous posts i note that from reading some of the arguments on the topic, and this being my first forum mafia, i change my mind slightly on the subject.
And i apologize if my first post on why i found you scummy lacked content, upon prof reading it (after posting it ofc /facepalm) i do see SC2's point on it looking kinda scummy.
@ Sexdoll- Welcome to the game, I don't know if you were informed but this began as a newbie game (under 3 games played on teamliquid). Marvellosity is the only one with more than 3, but that's because he replaced AcesAnoka for inactivity, and WhySoMuch is from another site with a lot of games.
Where do we go now??? I still think the case Marvellosity made against Golden is the most solid case we have. But we can't really push Golden to answer for the case against him because, well, now it's sexdoll? And have zenman and mordanis checked out too
Okay so I have somewhat of a confession to make regarding the Phone-Veriat thing. I wasn't following in on my phone, I did not go to bed 22:00. Why did I write this? Well, I was fucking scared of the possiblity to get lynched. Last game I several times posted stupid thing all the time which resulted in me getting misslynched D2(aka I was townie). Before the D1 lynch I was not convinced at all that Veriat was scum. So I wanted to apear good townie in not voting for him as 95% of D1 lynches end in a misslynch. After Veriats flip I understood that my I understood that my Vote on Aces would look rather suspicious so I decided to ignore the Veriat-case for quite some time in order to avoid suspicion. When I posted my case before the night post I wanted to underline the fact that I was unable to change my vote, which of course wasn't true.
Because I'm scum or because I don't remember things. you choose!
Was just a really something I wrote in panic-mode, trying to throw of the suspicion of me. I'm sorry for this!
This is rapidly becoming impossible with people arbitrarily leaving, replacements, huge swings of luck, etc.
@ SexDoll Thanks for coming in, and welcome.
Anyways, my thoughts: Lazer has only played one game on TL before, and that game he was (mis)lynched on the first day. IDK if that will excuse everything, but for me for this cycle, I see his previous excuse post as valid.
There has been little talk of Nreekay. There has been little talk from Nreekay. I'm suspicious of him, but I'll still hold on to my reasoning about him. Definitely worth looking into if things don't work as we'd like them to.
Golden/Sex Doll, I've felt some suspicion for you for quite a while. IDK, there was never really any response to Marv's case, and now its sort of hard to have one person defend another based on simply inheriting the same role.
In short, with still two mafia and 6 town, I'll likely vote Golden because Marv had a pretty decent case and replacements make the game so much more annoying.
Anyways, I've been trying to figure out the implications of mafia voting for/against Veriat, and what mafia would be trying to do right now. I haven't really checked out, I'm just re-evaluating. As I stated earlier (and no hate to the replacements), replacing players makes it nearly impossible to figure out the orientation of the combined player. This has temporarily discouraged me, but I should have a lot more time tomorrow to wade through things.
On April 28 2012 04:53 Lazermonkey wrote: Reading through the thread more closely this time.
@AcesAnoka - His posts are just scummier and scummier. Something to add on the case against him are the last posts before he goes to bed. He first is very suspicious about yomi, but when both Golden and Splinter posts some good cases against him he quickly responds with:
On April 28 2012 02:24 AcesAnoka wrote: ##unvote
I haven't thought of it the way you just posted, Yomi.
I need nreekay to explain himself though.
I understand that he needs to go to bed but basically what he does is fleeing from all the allegations by saying '' this case was bad, hope u forget about it till tomorrow''.
@The_Zen_Man Must say that he is acting way to defensive atm. At least if he is in fact a towine. Up untill just an hour ago all he had posted was defensive posts in response to WhySoMuch. He then makes a summary posts which just made me even more puzzled. His conclusions just seem to be way off. The one I was most suprised about was:
On April 28 2012 03:05 The_Zen_Man wrote: AcesAnoka: You seem suspicous to me. You're first comment was rather strange, but i know you shoulnd't judge someone too much based on what they first wrote. I think it was a good thing you put that pressure vote on yomi, after all it did give a response from him.
It's almost like you didn't read anything but the very first pages. Alot of people, me including, have been thinking that AcecAnoka's behavior was more then just strange. This is NOT only due to his first post but mostly due to the yomi-debate. And I don't understand what you mean with I think it was a good thing you put that pressure vote on yomi, after all it did give a response from him.. The only thing yomi said was what everyone was thinking: that he was just trying to start a discussion.
Now this is alot WIFOM. But it IS possible that AcesAnoka were trying to go for a cheap bandwagon on yomi and when he realized that it all failed utterly he was quick to abandon the ship. His scumbro The_Zen_Man tries to to cover his teammate by giving him a relativelynice review in his summary post.
Imo The_Zen_Man seems like a confused townie tho and not lynch worthy at all atm. AcecAnoka on the other hand seems quite a bit suspicious to me still.
reread a little more of lazermonkey because of that other post I quoted earlier and cus I saw whysomuch voting him and think this post is interesting.
Lazer post is a defence of zen_man with an attack on aces (who I think is a likely towno). It's interesting because both cases are very thin and he has fairly strong opinions in opposite directions on each of them.
If Lazer is a scummo, he's very unlikely to take this position if aces and zenman are both towndawgs. It's too viable for ppl to go either way on both of these ppl for him to take such a hard stance on them if they were both townspeople. Scum will either back off on these ppl to let the townsos make a bad decision, or they will chose the line of reasoning that makes either of them more likely to be scum.
SOOO given my initial reads on lazer and aces, if lazer flips scum, we can probably turbolynch thezenman the next day
Please make a better explanation to why i should be "turbolynched" if lazer flips scum?
Also, try to read all of the thread before forming a opinion.
I feel like we're being messed with here. Sexdoll signs up to the forum Tuesday, his first ever post is offering himself up as a replacement in this game.
Then we get this whole charade? WhySoMuch "knows" Sexdoll from some other site, they have this nice little byplay - oh he's actually younguns there lol lol, heyya babe, and of course Sexdoll knows him and he is likely a villager based on his experience with him.
Isn't that sweet, the internet suddenly seems like such a small happy place, where two people who played something similar on another site manage to not only end up in the same game on this site, but have all this experience playing together.
I think it's one of two things. 1). They are the same person and totally fucking with us. This was my first impression based on Sexdolls posts. 2). They are friends who are communicating out of band and acting like they aren't.
I don't like it at all.
Marv, I'm going to spend the next bit going over your case on Golden. It read good the first time but there were a few things I wanted to look at closer. Don't you think it's weird that WhySoMuch has dropped his number 1 scum read on Golden? His reason initially was that he didn't think anyone would support it, so now you've made a good case, why the hell isn't he even pushing it?
I'm conflicted though, as I was the person that led the lynch against Lazermonkey in my first mafia game for similar reasons, i.e., he had made what appeared to be obvious scum tells, and he became the obvious lynch (like Jailbreaker this game) and then he flips town.
I think that gives me enough doubt right now, that if I'm convinced in the case against Golden, will be pushing for that lynch.
I'll post more once I've done some work and had a chance to go through the case again.
On May 04 2012 18:38 Pure-SC2 wrote: I feel like we're being messed with here. Sexdoll signs up to the forum Tuesday, his first ever post is offering himself up as a replacement in this game.
Then we get this whole charade? WhySoMuch "knows" Sexdoll from some other site, they have this nice little byplay - oh he's actually younguns there lol lol, heyya babe, and of course Sexdoll knows him and he is likely a villager based on his experience with him.
Isn't that sweet, the internet suddenly seems like such a small happy place, where two people who played something similar on another site manage to not only end up in the same game on this site, but have all this experience playing together.
I think it's one of two things. 1). They are the same person and totally fucking with us. This was my first impression based on Sexdolls posts. 2). They are friends who are communicating out of band and acting like they aren't.
I don't like it at all.
Marv, I'm going to spend the next bit going over your case on Golden. It read good the first time but there were a few things I wanted to look at closer. Don't you think it's weird that WhySoMuch has dropped his number 1 scum read on Golden? His reason initially was that he didn't think anyone would support it, so now you've made a good case, why the hell isn't he even pushing it?
Vague nods to this whole post. The whole situation is retarded. I'm afraid I've stopped thinking about this game in any way, so I will not be able to answer any questions you have.
I've gone through Marv's Golden case again, and believe it's the most concrete case we have, and I follow his reasoning that leads him to his conclusion.
I really don't feel good about the SexDoll replacement based on what I've read so far, and I've posted what I think about this.
So yea.
##Vote: SexDoll
Additional concerns, Lazer's made an admitted lie in order to alleviate suspicion to avoid being lynched. On its own this seems really bad to me.
The_Zen_Man needs to contribute.
Also, someone out there knows some concrete evidence. I'm in two minds about this, because I think the info can be used now. If it's not going to be, then it has to be used at the end of the night. That's my opinion anyway.
On May 04 2012 18:38 Pure-SC2 wrote: I feel like we're being messed with here. Sexdoll signs up to the forum Tuesday, his first ever post is offering himself up as a replacement in this game.
Then we get this whole charade? WhySoMuch "knows" Sexdoll from some other site, they have this nice little byplay - oh he's actually younguns there lol lol, heyya babe, and of course Sexdoll knows him and he is likely a villager based on his experience with him.
Isn't that sweet, the internet suddenly seems like such a small happy place, where two people who played something similar on another site manage to not only end up in the same game on this site, but have all this experience playing together.
I think it's one of two things. 1). They are the same person and totally fucking with us. This was my first impression based on Sexdolls posts. 2). They are friends who are communicating out of band and acting like they aren't.
I don't like it at all.
Marv, I'm going to spend the next bit going over your case on Golden. It read good the first time but there were a few things I wanted to look at closer. Don't you think it's weird that WhySoMuch has dropped his number 1 scum read on Golden? His reason initially was that he didn't think anyone would support it, so now you've made a good case, why the hell isn't he even pushing it?
hey, we both play a ton of werewolf on 2p2 and 2p2 is probably the biggest site to play ww. It's also a fairly tightknit community. 2p2 was hacked last week and has been down. We aren't the samer person. My 2p2 name is Aksdal and I have like 14k posts there. Youngunz has a ton of posts too.
On May 04 2012 18:38 Pure-SC2 wrote: I feel like we're being messed with here. Sexdoll signs up to the forum Tuesday, his first ever post is offering himself up as a replacement in this game.
Then we get this whole charade? WhySoMuch "knows" Sexdoll from some other site, they have this nice little byplay - oh he's actually younguns there lol lol, heyya babe, and of course Sexdoll knows him and he is likely a villager based on his experience with him.
Isn't that sweet, the internet suddenly seems like such a small happy place, where two people who played something similar on another site manage to not only end up in the same game on this site, but have all this experience playing together.
I think it's one of two things. 1). They are the same person and totally fucking with us. This was my first impression based on Sexdolls posts. 2). They are friends who are communicating out of band and acting like they aren't.
I don't like it at all.
Marv, I'm going to spend the next bit going over your case on Golden. It read good the first time but there were a few things I wanted to look at closer. Don't you think it's weird that WhySoMuch has dropped his number 1 scum read on Golden? His reason initially was that he didn't think anyone would support it, so now you've made a good case, why the hell isn't he even pushing it?
hey, we both play a ton of werewolf on 2p2 and 2p2 is probably the biggest site to play ww. It's also a fairly tightknit community. 2p2 was hacked last week and has been down. We aren't the samer person. My 2p2 name is Aksdal and I have like 14k posts there. Youngunz has a ton of posts too.
I can confirm (I had a staff member do an IP check) that SexDoll and WhySoMuch are NOT the same person. This is a very serious cheating accusation (we permaban people for playing on 2 accounts at the same time in the same game). Please don't throw around this accusation so lightly in the future. If you really think this is happening, contact the host of your game.
so I just read Marv's case on me/golden. I appreciate his effort but the problem with it is that I think he's confusing sub-optimal/bad play with scummy play. It's an important distinction that a lot of ppl get confused about. I'm not going to read all of Golden's posts because it really doesn't make sense for me to do so, but I imagine that most of the factual things that marv said about golden's play this game is probably true. He probably fluffed a lot, probably didn't push his "top" reads very hard, and probably made some contradictions. It sucks that he can't respond to any of that now, but since I know that he was a townsperson, I will try to shed some light on what was most likely going on.
First of all, the fluff/post length thing is pretty role neutral and will be determined more on the players personality/style than his role.
Also, when ppl say stuff like, x,y and z are my top scum reads atm, then proceed to push z over x, that doesn't mean theyre complacent to lynch whoever or that they're contradicting themselves by not pushing x super hard. It just shows a slight lack of confidence in all of the reads, which is totally normal. This is a game of vague information.
I want to talk about something specific in marv's case that was brushed aside when he made his case, but is actually super important. When he said, my scum leads are Aces, x and Veriat, then he says he's fine with lynching veriat, Marv says taht this is super scummy, which doesn't make any sense. Scum in that scenario say stuff like, "Veriat is fine but I prefer Aces." They don't volunteer their bros to get lynched like that.
On 2p2 we call it bussing when one scum pushes another so that's what I'll call it here. The way that went down is NOT how scum bus each other. It makes no sense. There are 2 approaches that make sense in s/s interactions like that. 1 he would agree that veriat is probably a wolf but try to get aces lynched over him and 2 he would push him in a way that would be clearing for HIM. Golden got 0 credit for the veriat lynch because he deserved 0 credit for it. It makes no sense for him to have pushed Veriat like that if they were s/s.
Further, saying stuff like, "if veriat flips town I'm coming after these ppl tomorrow" or w/e he said just makes him look even worse. Scum are more calculated than that because they have to be. And based on what I gather from his posting style, Golden would be an exceptionally calculated scum.
Please make a better explanation to why i should be "turbolynched" if lazer flips scum?
Also, try to read all of the thread before forming a opinion.
Re the turbolynch comment, lazer's position on you and the other dude (i forget who it was) makes you and the other guy very unlikely town/town if lazer is scum. the fact taht you're likely a townsperson based on veriat's case on you actually makes lazer a more likely villager.
Don't take it personally if I think you're a scum. It's probably more beneficial for you if I give you my thoughts as I go along so you can see how I'm thinking more clearly. I should read teh whole thread all at once but I feel like i would forget too much about who said what because I don't know anyone and am not super familiar with this platform for it to be worthwhile. I'm basically going to read ppl through filters and if I see something important, I'll look at entire conversations around posts.
On May 04 2012 23:40 SexDoll wrote: I want to talk about something specific in marv's case that was brushed aside when he made his case, but is actually super important. When he said, my scum leads are Aces, x and Veriat, then he says he's fine with lynching veriat, Marv says taht this is super scummy, which doesn't make any sense. Scum in that scenario say stuff like, "Veriat is fine but I prefer Aces." They don't volunteer their bros to get lynched like that.
On 2p2 we call it bussing when one scum pushes another so that's what I'll call it here. The way that went down is NOT how scum bus each other. It makes no sense. There are 2 approaches that make sense in s/s interactions like that. 1 he would agree that veriat is probably a wolf but try to get aces lynched over him and 2 he would push him in a way that would be clearing for HIM. Golden got 0 credit for the veriat lynch because he deserved 0 credit for it. It makes no sense for him to have pushed Veriat like that if they were s/s.
Agreeably, Golden's concise and clear posting is indicative of him being clever/calculated. But does this really mean that he's a mastermind mafia as well? If the mafia had intentionally planned for veriat to be bussed from the start, and they were all clear about this, then it makes sense that the mafia wouldn't be the last vote (more likely the first vote). But this is making many assumptions about Golden, and the mafia. This leads me to wonder things like, what if Veriat opted-out mid-day1 and Golden decided he'd rather be on the bandwagon when he flips then off? Sure, he didn't get definitive credit for the veriat lynch, but what if he was just trying to get (at least some) town credibility in general? What if he was just annoyed at veriat, and as the opportunity presented itself, he just decided to boot him?
I'll re-read the case against Golden, Jailbreaker's response/apology, and try looking at WSM again; but I think Marv's case against Golden is the best lead right now. This replacement stuff is really confusing reads though (not directed at you specifically sexdoll, but as there have been two replacements, it's annoying.)
On May 05 2012 00:40 nreekay324 wrote: Agreeably, Golden's concise and clear posting is indicative of him being clever/calculated. But does this really mean that he's a mastermind mafia as well? If the mafia had intentionally planned for veriat to be bussed from the start, and they were all clear about this, then it makes sense that the mafia wouldn't be the last vote (more likely the first vote). But this is making many assumptions about Golden, and the mafia. This leads me to wonder things like, what if Veriat opted-out mid-day1 and Golden decided he'd rather be on the bandwagon when he flips then off? Sure, he didn't get definitive credit for the veriat lynch, but what if he was just trying to get (at least some) town credibility in general? What if he was just annoyed at veriat, and as the opportunity presented itself, he just decided to boot him?
I'll re-read the case against Golden, Jailbreaker's response/apology, and try looking at WSM again; but I think Marv's case against Golden is the best lead right now. This replacement stuff is really confusing reads though (not directed at you specifically sexdoll, but as there have been two replacements, it's annoying.)
If there is ever a plan for scum to bus each other, they're going to make sure that they are the ones who get credit for lynching their bro. They do this by pushing them hard and leading the lynch. If a strategy was involved, tacking on was not part of it.
On May 04 2012 23:40 SexDoll wrote: I want to talk about something specific in marv's case that was brushed aside when he made his case, but is actually super important. When he said, my scum leads are Aces, x and Veriat, then he says he's fine with lynching veriat, Marv says taht this is super scummy, which doesn't make any sense. Scum in that scenario say stuff like, "Veriat is fine but I prefer Aces." They don't volunteer their bros to get lynched like that.
On 2p2 we call it bussing when one scum pushes another so that's what I'll call it here. The way that went down is NOT how scum bus each other. It makes no sense. There are 2 approaches that make sense in s/s interactions like that. 1 he would agree that veriat is probably a wolf but try to get aces lynched over him and 2 he would push him in a way that would be clearing for HIM. Golden got 0 credit for the veriat lynch because he deserved 0 credit for it. It makes no sense for him to have pushed Veriat like that if they were s/s.
Agreeably, Golden's concise and clear posting is indicative of him being clever/calculated. But does this really mean that he's a mastermind mafia as well? If the mafia had intentionally planned for veriat to be bussed from the start, and they were all clear about this, then it makes sense that the mafia wouldn't be the last vote (more likely the first vote). But this is making many assumptions about Golden, and the mafia. This leads me to wonder things like, what if Veriat opted-out mid-day1 and Golden decided he'd rather be on the bandwagon when he flips then off? Sure, he didn't get definitive credit for the veriat lynch, but what if he was just trying to get (at least some) town credibility in general? What if he was just annoyed at veriat, and as the opportunity presented itself, he just decided to boot him?
I'll re-read the case against Golden, Jailbreaker's response/apology, and try looking at WSM again; but I think Marv's case against Golden is the best lead right now. This replacement stuff is really confusing reads though (not directed at you specifically sexdoll, but as there have been two replacements, it's annoying.)
A bunch of supersolid points that I didn't have the energy to make for myself.
An extra one being
Also, when ppl say stuff like, x,y and z are my top scum reads atm, then proceed to push z over x, that doesn't mean theyre complacent to lynch whoever or that they're contradicting themselves by not pushing x super hard. It just shows a slight lack of confidence in all of the reads, which is totally normal. This is a game of vague information.
One of the main points of the case was that Golden took so damn long making up his mind, constantly stating that he wouldn't make scumreads until he was sure. But then when he did he changed them immediately. Bad.
Re: replacements. I totally agree with you, and I know it must have been really hard for the rest of you when I replaced in (especially as Aces had already been suspicious). Imo replacing someone at the end of day 1 for not voting is just about acceptable (although difficult for everyone), replacing midway through Day 3 is simply not.
On May 05 2012 00:40 nreekay324 wrote: Agreeably, Golden's concise and clear posting is indicative of him being clever/calculated. But does this really mean that he's a mastermind mafia as well? If the mafia had intentionally planned for veriat to be bussed from the start, and they were all clear about this, then it makes sense that the mafia wouldn't be the last vote (more likely the first vote). But this is making many assumptions about Golden, and the mafia. This leads me to wonder things like, what if Veriat opted-out mid-day1 and Golden decided he'd rather be on the bandwagon when he flips then off? Sure, he didn't get definitive credit for the veriat lynch, but what if he was just trying to get (at least some) town credibility in general? What if he was just annoyed at veriat, and as the opportunity presented itself, he just decided to boot him?
I'll re-read the case against Golden, Jailbreaker's response/apology, and try looking at WSM again; but I think Marv's case against Golden is the best lead right now. This replacement stuff is really confusing reads though (not directed at you specifically sexdoll, but as there have been two replacements, it's annoying.)
If there is ever a plan for scum to bus each other, they're going to make sure that they are the ones who get credit for lynching their bro. They do this by pushing them hard and leading the lynch. If a strategy was involved, tacking on was not part of it.
You seem to be missing what nreekay is saying. Specifically the bit in bold.
People do not always behave in either the optimal way or the way you would expect them to.
One thing I thought about yesterday, was how Golden opted out the moment the pressure really came on, i.e, 40 minutes after Marv states:
On May 03 2012 21:30 marvellosity wrote: At this stage golden is my main scum-read. You may understand why this is extremely time-consuming to put together
40 minutes later, Golden posts that he's pulling out of the game. That's one way to avoid the pressure on you and meaning you don't have to answer a case I suppose.
On May 05 2012 00:53 SexDoll wrote: I'm making assumptions because of my experience and my intuition. I like to think I'm a pretty good judge of character
Yes, and my experience has taught me that making assumptions such as those can lead you to the wrong results. "It's my intuition" is neither an offence nor a defence.
the best way to determine ppls roles is to try to find their motivations and thought processes. There are situations where if you put yourself in the shoes of the scum, you will see that there is a clear and easy decision for them to make in certain circumstances. The assumption that I'm making is that scum tend to think more about how their interactions/cases/votes will make them look to the townspeople. This is a perfectly reasonable assumption. Once this assumption is made, the rest of what I said about bussing is just common sense
On May 05 2012 00:54 Pure-SC2 wrote: One thing I thought about yesterday, was how Golden opted out the moment the pressure really came on, i.e, 40 minutes after Marv states:
On May 03 2012 21:30 marvellosity wrote: At this stage golden is my main scum-read. You may understand why this is extremely time-consuming to put together
40 minutes later, Golden posts that he's pulling out of the game. That's one way to avoid the pressure on you and meaning you don't have to answer a case I suppose.
Pure - WIFOM territory here, but did you notice Nova Terra specifically pointed out that it was cheating to get yourself mod-killed for nefarious reasons?
Pretty pointless speculation actually, but there we go
My apathy is starting to disappear. Let's lynch SexDoll.
On May 05 2012 00:58 SexDoll wrote: the best way to determine ppls roles is to try to find their motivations and thought processes. There are situations where if you put yourself in the shoes of the scum, you will see that there is a clear and easy decision for them to make in certain circumstances. The assumption that I'm making is that scum tend to think more about how their interactions/cases/votes will make them look to the townspeople. This is a perfectly reasonable assumption. Once this assumption is made, the rest of what I said about bussing is just common sense
Yes, but not everything is always as planned as that, and things move fast.
Take this as a scenario:
1 - Aces was leading the lynch by 4-2 (5-2?) and so was looking likely to be lynched. Scum are quite happy 2 - Golden makes his 3 scumread cases, not including Veriat 3 - Suddenly pressure is heaped on Veriat and he starts receiving votes 4 - Golden changes his 3 scumreads to include Veriat 5 - As he'd been forced to include Veriat as a scumread, he couldn't just hop on to the wagon straight away as Aces was his strongest read, so he waited until later when it appeared Veriat was the only viable option
EBWOP: I'm not even sure that was exactly the order of things, but see how easy it is to come up with likely scenarios that don't fit your bill of perfect preplanning?
On April 29 2012 04:50 O.Golden_ne wrote: It's 5:38am where I am, i'm pulling an all nighter to correct my horrible sleeping patterns! Laddering hard to try to get to masters (ugh my ZvP is horrid). I'll be here for the lynch it seems. Though my comprehension at the moment is a little sub-par i'll try and function coherently!
On April 29 2012 04:03 WhySoMuch wrote: Golden, Mordanis, Lazer: Would you be willing to switch to Veriat? The_Zen has posted his case, and also if you go back and read his posts on your own, what do you think?
Veriat is my current 3rd scum-read, i would be happy to see him lynched. His behaviour and activity level isn't great as stated by several of the others. I cannot tell if he is town or mafia, but as a lurker i find him useless in the debate. In his inactivity lies his downfall, however with AcesAnoka and Nreekay it is their activity that has brought about my suspicions. Which leads me to question everyone in particular those voting for Veriat. If it comes down to AcesAnoka and Veriat do we lynch the flip-flop impulse voters who lurk and post fluff, or the absent veriat who 'stands firm' in his vote with the_zen_man and has otherwise done little.
I will change votes only until you can show me AcesAnoka is less of a threat than Veriat.
a very sleepy Golden.
This post is hella sketch.
Your happy to see him lynched but you won't vote him?
As far as I know only 1 person is voting him becuase of his lack of activity. I am not. When he has been in the thread, his posts have been extremely wolfy as I and others have pointed out.
On April 29 2012 05:50 O.Golden_ne wrote: WhySoMuch,
What's 'hella sketch' about my post exactly if you don't mind me asking?
I've already stated the reasoning behind my lynch vote for AcesAnoka, I personally find his activity to be alot more suspicious than the inactivity which is what is making Veriat a suspect.
"Your happy to see him lynched but you won't vote him?" is answered here "I will change votes only until you can show me AcesAnoka is less of a threat than Veriat."
I will vote for him if we need too, but answer me this. Is Veriats 'wolfy' posts more detrimental to the team than AcesAnoka's?
Everyone please pay note to the response to this: @WhySoMuch What is your read on me? Is my steadfast view on AcesAnoka more 'hella sketch' than your own flip flop voting? 3 Votes in such a short period has me curious.
Golden
I explained in my post why it was sketch. You saying you won't change your vote to Variat even though you are happy to see him lynched.
There are no detrimental posts, idk what you mean by that. Are Veriats posts more scummy than Aces? Yes, a lot more.
The bolded: Why are you so against voting him, like it's going to pain you to vote him, but if it's absolutely necessary you will when you said you would be happy to see him lynched. It doesn't make sense. If Veriat flips mafia, I am coming after you for being his partner.
And to answer your bolded question:
My read on you is that you are a mafia if Veriat flips mafia. Yes your steadfast view on Aces is more sketch than me flip flopping, what is so bad about flip-flopping? I'm showing I'm analysing posts in real time and drawing conclusions, then going back rereading and switching my stance. You are hesistant to vote someone you are "happy to lynch" and that's what makes your steadfast stance scummy.
On May 04 2012 18:38 Pure-SC2 wrote: I feel like we're being messed with here. Sexdoll signs up to the forum Tuesday, his first ever post is offering himself up as a replacement in this game.
Then we get this whole charade? WhySoMuch "knows" Sexdoll from some other site, they have this nice little byplay - oh he's actually younguns there lol lol, heyya babe, and of course Sexdoll knows him and he is likely a villager based on his experience with him.
Isn't that sweet, the internet suddenly seems like such a small happy place, where two people who played something similar on another site manage to not only end up in the same game on this site, but have all this experience playing together.
I think it's one of two things. 1). They are the same person and totally fucking with us. This was my first impression based on Sexdolls posts. 2). They are friends who are communicating out of band and acting like they aren't.
I don't like it at all.
Marv, I'm going to spend the next bit going over your case on Golden. It read good the first time but there were a few things I wanted to look at closer. Don't you think it's weird that WhySoMuch has dropped his number 1 scum read on Golden? His reason initially was that he didn't think anyone would support it, so now you've made a good case, why the hell isn't he even pushing it?
You may not like me and you may think I'm a tool. But I would never compromise game integrity like that. That is just wasting everyone's time. I assure you we are not the same person. I was the one that told SexDoll about this site, he had no idea what my screen name was on this site, and therefor had no idea what game I was in, I didn't even tell him that we needed a sub and that he should join. We occassionally talk outside of this game, but we know the rules and we do not discuss this game at all. We talk about sports or random other things, or how much we miss poker, and stuff like that. We have a policy that everyone knows where you never talk about ongoing games.
And yes, we do have a lot of experience together, and joke around a lot with each other, I do it with most players I know, as do a lot of players on 2p2.
But Seriously, yes we are from the same site. No we aren't the same player. Yes, we talk outside of this game, but we do not discuss this game.
On May 04 2012 23:39 Qatol wrote: I can confirm (I had a staff member do an IP check) that SexDoll and WhySoMuch are NOT the same person. This is a very serious cheating accusation (we permaban people for playing on 2 accounts at the same time in the same game). Please don't throw around this accusation so lightly in the future. If you really think this is happening, contact the host of your game.
I didn't see this posted before, thank you for addressing it.
On May 04 2012 23:40 SexDoll wrote: I want to talk about something specific in marv's case that was brushed aside when he made his case, but is actually super important. When he said, my scum leads are Aces, x and Veriat, then he says he's fine with lynching veriat, Marv says taht this is super scummy, which doesn't make any sense. Scum in that scenario say stuff like, "Veriat is fine but I prefer Aces." They don't volunteer their bros to get lynched like that.
On 2p2 we call it bussing when one scum pushes another so that's what I'll call it here. The way that went down is NOT how scum bus each other. It makes no sense. There are 2 approaches that make sense in s/s interactions like that. 1 he would agree that veriat is probably a wolf but try to get aces lynched over him and 2 he would push him in a way that would be clearing for HIM. Golden got 0 credit for the veriat lynch because he deserved 0 credit for it. It makes no sense for him to have pushed Veriat like that if they were s/s.
Oh common, You know people say (the bolded) all the time as m/m.
And as for Golden's vote, I've already said so, but he said "I happy to lynch Veriat" at some point in the day. At that point, he has to vote Veriat every time even if he's m/m with veriat. Because if he doesn't he just outed 2 of the mafia.
You got put in a crappy situation and you're prolly a mafia. Sorry Bro :/
Well, we obviously need to keep moving forward, and Golden/SexDoll are probably the best vote right now. As much as I hate easy lynches, I don't see any other option right now.
Golden/SexDoll is starting to look more and more suspicous to me as more people post cases against him and not only WhySoMuch. Before i thought of him as a good townie, who made some cases and encouraged others to do the same. But his leave from the game is very strange, especially since he left not long after marvellosity said he was compiling a post about him. Also, much of what sexdoll says confuses me. Either he is using advanced logic all the time or he is using fail logic all the time. He has gone up to a big spot in my scum reads. I will wait and observe SexDoll some more before i can form a proper opinion, but for now i can say that i am suspicous of him.
On May 05 2012 02:08 Mordanis wrote: Well, we obviously need to keep moving forward, and Golden/SexDoll are probably the best vote right now. As much as I hate easy lynches, I don't see any other option right now.
Two additional points I noticed about Golden; 1) I only quoted a part of his post, but the part where Golden consistently mentions WhySoMuch. There’s WIFOM about mafia’s nightt shot, a defensive discredit of WhySoMuch’s claims against Golden, and general comments about suspicion towards WSM’s play. + Show Spoiler +
On April 30 2012 10:27 O.Golden_ne wrote: Day Two: This is a solid read, please re-read it as it has alot of analysis and i don't want any of it missed....
I think that the reason they shot him was because while he may not have been a provider of new idea's, he was a provider of solid voting. Shooting an idea-provider would be greatly substantial for the Mafia in the early game so why didn't they? WhySoMuch could have been an ideal target and he even noted it himself so he binged out idea's in the night time. I thought that perhaps if WhySoMuch was shot than i would consider his idea's posted to be given a little more credence than i have (read below), but that is moot as he hasn't been shot.
THIS the fact that he wasn't shot makes him slightly suspicious, as who would be able to spew ideas in the night time and not get shot? Perhaps a Mafia who want's to incriminate someone who has been contributing to the group with a 'legitimate nightime argument' without any contest. This is highly strange behaviour. He wasn't sniped, and his idea has gone uncontested. If WhySoMuch was mafia and his position on me was known in Day 1 and i was sniped he would be considered suspicious. So he gave his idea's hoping they will be absorbed on the record, but unchallenged and so he could use them for his benefit at a later date ("oh woops we sniped a townie, what? justify why he's my target? WELL, i commented about him at night, surely he would have sniped me") all the while sniping a solid voter town.
My opinion of WhySoMuch and his vote on me.
You've tried very hard to set yourself up as the 'Champion of the Veriat lynch', however as i see it you voted 3 times yesterday within rapid succession. Then by admitting 'your townies' had voted for another player you jumped on a bandwagon, which i see as very loose play. By doing that you 'won over' a cheap sort of allegiance with these players, you seem to be trying to foster some surface level friendships with these players and then persecute me for not quickly jumping between 'bandwagons'. My vote on AcesAnoka was reasoned and explained and you've belittled it with this style of play. Yes, Veriat was mafia. Yes, i didn't change vote quickly. Is it more suspect to change votes quickly just before lynch time if you've explained your stance in great detail previously? I feel my style has been efficient in gathering information on players. I also feel that had i changed quickly you would have found me suspicious also. I was going to change votes in due course and i did, which was explained in my posts which you never seem to comprehend.
You worry me, you don't read very deeply into the game or into other peoples posts. I have had trouble with many of your responses to questions asked of you in regards to content and your stubborn attitude. I've answered your suspicions of me and you seem very against me. This stubborn attitude should be alleviated and you should read deeper into everyone's posts not just people who don't emerge on your core group of villagers. Please keep your vote on me until you decide with a little more consideration who is Mafia, because i assure you with 100% conviction i am Town, and that i am an asset to the Town.
On a side note that you've said there is a 'core group of villages emerging' with little explanation of this town list (Bar the_zen_man) compared this to the depth your 'explanation' of your vote for me. This could be worrisome as mafia could easily slip into your Town list. Your initial justification of your vote against Veriat was fairly slim which you rectified with some loose quoting, but lynching him wasn't because of your pressure on me. If you create a group of innocents in your mind please dont let this cloud your 'bull in a china shop' analysis of players.
Under the spoiler, there’s a lot of stuff. I personally thought that Golden was leading up to a vote/FOS at this point. Here it is; + Show Spoiler +
@WhySoMuch: I am not suspicious of you as mafia. I think you are a very surface level thinking, stubborn and aggressive town. Please explain N1 to me. @People who may consider WhySoMuch suspicious: In his defence, while he may have some contradictory and flip-flop opinions towards the end of day one and had a very strong conviction to get a lynch he was much more active and aggressive than i would expect even of an aggressive mafia....
So Golden took all that typing to get here. WSM is suspicious but don’t be suspicious of him because we shouldn’t be suspicious he's actually unsuspicious? ??? What’s the point of throwing all that guesswork “re-read this analysis” around, if there was no point to it? I asked Golden to clarify his stance on WSM, but he never did. I think this is scummy, because what's the point? A vote or FOS would force WSM (or others) to defend at the very least. But all it does is pull the reader in a circle, and Golden can stick with a safe read.
On May 01 2012 10:36 marvellosity wrote: As it appears I will fail in my bid to make you see common sense, I shall stop this back and forth with you.
The worst part for me is that i get a town read from him, i've wasted a lot of my input trying to get his head in the game.
Thoughts...
Here are some queries i have before i do another mind-splurge on this thread.
1. Nreekay324
You posted a decent argument against Jailbreaker in a spoiler on your D1 Summary post. Nreekay324's Filter What would it take to change your vote from AcesAnoka (marvellosity) in the same post, to Jailbreaker? I feel like your argument against Jailbreaker looks stronger than this one against AcesAnoka (marvellosity):
A number of arguments have been made, and not much to add to them because he hasn’t been posting much. He, like other lurkers, should be pressured D2. What got the successful D1 lynch was from pressuring lurkers (yomi called out veriat for this very reason). We need to keep this up.
2. marvellosity
You've shown a much deeper level of perception that AcesAnoka ever did, and it's exactly what you'll need to keep doing to stay in the game. I feel if you can maintain few solid posts with little contradiction you may have earnt your character's standing in the game. You've certainly grilled WhySoMuch on a fair portion of his logic, however i can't help but wonder if this is scapegoating because you do need to establish yourself within the team and he is certainly an unusual character. I have my own thoughts on him which i've shared, and i think he holds a unique position within the group as a finger pointer now that yomi's voice has been nullified.
3. Mordanis
I want your analysis of Nreekay324's connections to other players.
4. WhySoMuch
Can you explain Jailbreakers connections to other players in the group in a list? thx
Thank you in advance for your timely responses.
Golden.
^This is after marvellosity joins us, before Jailbreaker's lynch. He nudges me to shift my vote to Jailbreaker (using my own argument nonetheless) and then points at people to do stuff. Again, where's his stance on anything? He's just pushing people to make analyses for him to look at so he can chose the best (perhaps, safest?) case to vote for. It seems like he feels he's established himself as a sort of town leader, and doesn't even need to add input at this point. Especially when people are saying stuff like this,
On May 01 2012 16:00 Mordanis wrote: Yes, sir, mister Golden, sir First things first, I just realized that nreekay = Enrique... Yeah... Anyways Nreekay has only really posted three things which can be evaluated, and of course I can analyze his vote. I'll begin with his first analytical post.....
(not a blow to you mordanis, i totally answered anything golden direected at me too)
What's his next post? Well this round's an easy mislynch for him, so let's vote and get on with it.
On May 01 2012 20:18 O.Golden_ne wrote: ##Vote: Jailbreaker
Can we get a vote count?
Then jailbreaker mislynches, oh no;
On May 02 2012 10:24 O.Golden_ne wrote: damnit, I'm less pissed off about lynching jail breaker as I am splinter going MIA....
RIP yomi RIP jailbreaker RIP splinter Golden
After getting some heat from D1 lynch, Golden had an opportunity to coast D2 (I don't think he said anything directly to/about jailbreaker the whole D2) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ @puresc2- I found this interesting. Do you have any comments about lazer's previous play that will give a better feel for his play/personality in general? I was comparing these two posts,
On May 04 2012 18:40 Pure-SC2 wrote: I'm conflicted though, as I was the person that led the lynch against Lazermonkey in my first mafia game for similar reasons, i.e., he had made what appeared to be obvious scum tells, and he became the obvious lynch (like Jailbreaker this game) and then he flips town.
On May 02 2012 04:18 Jailbreaker wrote: NO NO NOOOOOO Yes, I am a lurker. Barely have time to post with my boatload of homework!
Mordanis - Whats with all the hate?!? "if we're wrong and he turns out to be town, we aren't going to lose much." Well yeah, if you are MAFIA.
Pure-SC2 - I've been in full panic mode when players started to point at me with suspicion. I have literally no idea how to defend myself. "and no response at all to the cases made against him in conjunction with lurking, he makes by the far the best lynching candidate we have."
Splinter[eP] hasn't posted at all either, yet I'm the one with all the votes?
Lazermonkey - NOOOOOOOO You're vote still matters bro. Just because i have majority, doesn't mean that you should just jump on the bandwagon.
On May 03 2012 06:34 Lazermonkey wrote: Okay so here we go!
I've been thinking about the D1 lynch alot. What is puzzling me is the fact that we actually got a scum on the very first day,aka very rare in mafia. Looking at the people voting we can see that:
So Veriat was scum and Jailbreaker was townie. Now if we assume that noone that voted On Veriat was scum then two of me, nreekay324 and AcesAnoka/Marvellosity must be scum.
Now as for myself, I was seriously thought that Aces was looking way scummier than Veriat at the point of the lynch. I went to bed at about 22:00 and at that point where I left there were alot of indecisiveness on who to lynch. Thus I wasn't able to change my vote, although I'm not trying to archive town cred as I still think Aces looked more scummy in D1.
While I can't be 100% sure that Marv/Aces is town, it makes alot of sense. nreekay324 could very well be scum tho. I still think that the odds of BOTH this players being scum is relativly low. + Show Spoiler +
However, it is possible now that I am actually checking filters. During the 3 pages Marv posted this far he BARLY mentions nreekay324. nreekay324 himself is at first very suspicious against Aces, although when Marv replaces him he suddenly change his mind on him to town. This is somewhat strange to me...
This means that someone in the inner circel, the ones who voted for Veriat in the first place must be scum. I still have a hard time seeing, Pure or Mordanis being scum as they were the ones who pushed for the vote at Veriat.
Note that I'm in fact not including The_Zen_Man. I'm not sure what to think anymore about him. Yes it is true that he posted the first case on Veriat but he didn't actually push the case at all after that. It was Pure and Mordanis who did. during D2 he have posted not much at all. He states that he still think that WhySomuch is scum. I feel he is tunneling a little bit to hard atm and abusing the fact that he is "forever town" after D1. This is alot of WIFOM but for me he has at least lost his never-vote status. I'd say it's most likely he is town atm but not 100%.
The other people in the circel: Golden: Still leaining town here. WhySoMuch: I'm not sure about this guy at all. As I'm lazy I will not post any evidence and such of this tho : ).
I'm thinking that one out of Golden, The_Zen_Man and WhySoMuch is probebly scum. The most likely one is WhySoMuch but I don't want to be too fast on dissmissing the others!
Conflicting tone in this post.
You are sure that there is one scum on Veriat, and you go on to say that 4 of the 7 people (2 are dead) are some degree of town reads, and yet, you are "Not sure about this guy at all" at me. Shouldn't you be fairly sure I am a mafia? And as such shouldn't you be willing to make a case on me.
And then you go on to not limit your options by adding the underlined clause.
I have you as my highest scumreads atm.
What limits do you want? I'm 63% sure that you are scum atm?
On May 03 2012 06:34 Lazermonkey wrote: Okay so here we go!
I've been thinking about the D1 lynch alot. What is puzzling me is the fact that we actually got a scum on the very first day,aka very rare in mafia. Looking at the people voting we can see that:
Now as for myself, I was seriously thought that Aces was looking way scummier than Veriat at the point of the lynch. I went to bed at about 22:00 and at that point where I left there were alot of indecisiveness on who to lynch.Thus I wasn't able to change my vote, although I'm not trying to archive town cred as I still think Aces looked more scummy in D1.
*Snip*
Can I ask you something sir.
How can you follow all the drama on your phone if you are asleep?
If you weren't asleep, then you very well could have changed your vote but you didn't.
Either way you are lieing somewhere here. So why are you lieing?
I can already feel today being a good day. This is gonna get better btw. this is just the start
Because I'm scum or because I don't remember things. you choose!
On April 28 2012 06:30 Lazermonkey wrote: @The_Zen_Man + Show Spoiler +
On April 28 2012 05:41 The_Zen_Man wrote: @Lazermonkey In that post a merely stated some of my opinions on some players.I posted several other similliar opinions on some other players. And concerning how i like how AcesAnoka put a pressure vote on yomi is because i liked it. We were all thinking why yomi voted, but we needed a statement from him. Also, the vote would tell us more why nreekay324 voted for whysomuch. + Show Spoiler +
On April 28 2012 05:41 The_Zen_Man wrote: @Lazermonkey In that post a merely stated some of my opinions on some players.I posted several other similliar opinions on some other players. And concerning how i like how AcesAnoka put a pressure vote on yomi is because i liked it. We were all thinking why yomi voted, but we needed a statement from him. Also, the vote would tell us more why nreekay324 voted for whysomuch. And if AcesAnoka would want to go for a bandwagon on someone, why not whysomuch, who already had 2 votes on him? That seems to me like a town behavior. Also, if i was his "scumbro", wouldnt i support his voting on yomi before? Not vote with him or something, just some few posts about it. And yet i haven't done that.
The reason for my defensive stance is beacuse i've had to explain some suspicions on me, not really any more than that. If you read my filter, you would know that. It seems like you are trying to find suspicious behavior on me, and you are not afraid on going far in your accusations. You did manage to inflate a few comments on AcesAnoka to me being his "scumbro" .Is it because on of your scum-buddies got some heat and you are trying to direct eveyones attention elsewhere? nreekay324 for example has been getting some heat lately.
Atm im not sure about you, you haven't posted enough for me to be sure of you.
That seems to me like a town behavior. Also, if i was his "scumbro", wouldnt i support his voting on yomi before? Not vote with him or something, just some few posts about it. And yet i haven't done that.
The reason for my defensive stance is beacuse i've had to explain some suspicions on me, not really any more than that. If you read my filter, you would know that. It seems like you are trying to find suspicious behavior on me, and you are not afraid on going far in your accusations. You did manage to inflate a few comments on AcesAnoka to me being his "scumbro" .Is it because on of your scum-buddies got some heat and you are trying to direct eveyones attention elsewhere? nreekay324 for example has been getting some heat lately.
Atm im not sure about you, you haven't posted enough for me to be sure of you.
I feel you are just not reading/being stupid once again here. Alot of things in this post are plain wrong.
And if AcesAnoka would want to go for a bandwagon on someone, why not whysomuch, who already had 2 votes on him?
Both of the votes on AcesAnoka(or at least Yomi's, can't say too much about nreekay324 yet) were not serious. There was never a possibilty of bandwagoning here.
Also, if i was his "scumbro", wouldnt i support his voting on yomi before? Not vote with him or something, just some few posts about it. And yet i haven't done that.
No you wouldn't. Having two people out of a sudden sharing their opinions on a weak case would make you look scummy as hell. It's a common way to play scum, you split your opinions. So this doesn't prove your innocence.
You did manage to inflate a few comments on AcesAnoka to me being his "scumbro" .Is it because on of your scum-buddies got some heat and you are trying to direct eveyones attention elsewhere? nreekay324 for example has been getting some heat lately.
I even said in my post that my case on you and AcesAnoka being scumbros were a weak one. But the fact that you are still seem to think highly of Acec just makes me wonder more.
Once again you post a somewhat confused post. It's like you aren't reading the posts well enough because you seem to miss alot of what is happening. You are still being overly defensive imo, which is not standard town play. And you always attack the one who are suspicious of you. First WhySoMuch, then nreekay324 and last me. Have it actually struck you that we might not be suspicious of you because we are scum but rather that we actually think your play is strange?
Overall I still think your just town. I don't think your play looks like town, but it doesn't look like scum either.
Going to bed now, will be much more active tommorow!
You just made an extremely long post criticizing everything that The_Zen_Man had done, You even say that he is being "overly defensive imo which is not standard town play" and yet your conclusion is that he is "just town". How is that possible?
Then your last line you say you " don't think his play looks like town, but it doesn't look like scum either", yet you still call him a town. Why are you afraid to call him mafia, you laid out almost a whole case on him and still you think he's town? it doesn't make sense.
Also your phrasing of "just town". What do you mean by this?
Because while his play was confusing in the start, I strongly felt his motives didn't match the ones of scum. And if he were townie, which I still think although I'm not as certain as I was one day ago, I think he should step up his posting alot.
I mean, I don't know how much I should be reading into this here, but both seem to be pretty upset about being voted/targeted, and they both throw out suspicions at other people. What I'm trying to figure out is, how genuine is Lazer's apologetic post? I'm not sure what to make of it. I'm leaning towards believing it because his this post really felt panicky. Was he panicky for being scum or town or blue, I'm not sure... but I think I'm starting to walk into WIFOM; ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On May 05 2012 01:22 marvellosity wrote: Yeah. The problem comes because Golden can't defend himself. So we're left with:
1) we lynch sexfiend/golden on the strength of my case (and other's suspicions) and that's that 2) we let him off because he isn't golden
Both scenarios are a long way from ideal.
Indeed, but I think 2 is worse, or further from ideal, than 1. The way I see it is the case against the guy before Marv, Aces was that he was a lurker. And although Aces were suspicious, it was agreeable that there wasn't a strong enough case on Aces to pursue Marv (lurking was bad, but it was only the beginning). However, I think the case against golden is pretty solid, AND if we let sexdoll off and golden/sexdoll IS mafia, then we have roughly a day for misguiding/distraction by sexdoll.
I'll re-examine WSM when I get another block of time, i didn't think i'd get into the last post for so long.
@thezenman- Indeed sexdoll hasn't been with us for that long, but if he went up on your scum reads you should probably try to analyze/ post your thoughts sooner than later. The current argument is really against Golden, and so your thoughts on scumminess of sexdoll could be pretty useful.
[QUOTE]On May 05 2012 01:49 WhySoMuch wrote: [QUOTE]On May 04 2012 23:40 SexDoll wrote: I want to talk about something specific in marv's case that was brushed aside when he made his case, but is actually super important. When he said, my scum leads are Aces, x and Veriat, then he says he's fine with lynching veriat, Marv says taht this is super scummy, which doesn't make any sense. Scum in that scenario say stuff like, "Veriat is fine but I prefer Aces." They don't volunteer their bros to get lynched like that.
Oh common, You know people say (the bolded) all the time as m/m.
And as for Golden's vote, I've already said so, but he said "I happy to lynch Veriat" at some point in the day. At that point, he has to vote Veriat every time even if he's m/m with veriat. Because if he doesn't he just outed 2 of the mafia.
You got put in a crappy situation and you're prolly a mafia. Sorry Bro :/[/QUOTE]
the bold part is gross tonewise
[QUOTE]On May 05 2012 02:09 The_Zen_Man wrote: Golden/SexDoll is starting to look more and more suspicous to me as more people post cases against him and not only WhySoMuch. Before i thought of him as a good townie, who made some cases and encouraged others to do the same. But his leave from the game is very strange, especially since he left not long after marvellosity said he was compiling a post about him. Also, much of what sexdoll says confuses me. Either he is using advanced logic all the time or he is using fail logic all the time. He has gone up to a big spot in my scum reads. I will wait and observe SexDoll some more before i can form a proper opinion, but for now i can say that i am suspicous of him. [/QUOTE]
nobody else has posted any cases on golden, and the fact that you think im using advanced logic or failed logic shouldn't give you a lean one way or the other, so it's weird that it does.
It seems that ppl are confused about the assumptions I'm making about why Golden did certain things. I can make these assumptions because I know he was a townsperson. My job now is to convince you of the merits for his decisions as a townsperson. I will not be able to conclusively explain why he's a townsperson because I don't know exactly why he did the things he did. I can only guess and try to convince. I'm sure there are logical explanations as to why he would do certain things he did as a scum and all I can do is try to explain why my reasons are more likely.
if my timezone math is correct, night is at 6pm EDT so I'll still be at work. Defending myself anymore probably won't be very useful so I'll spend the rest of the time I can trying to find the last scum.
I'm fully retracting my whysomuch = towny read btw
On April 28 2012 05:51 Mordanis wrote: Ummmmmmmmm, Right now Veriat is looking very supsicious. He has only 5 total posts (here is a link right here to his posts)
First off, he has one of the fewest post-counts. Secondly, He's bandwaggoning quite a bit. He goes from his post from the start saying
As Pure-SC2 said, i share his opinion on the "no lynch" vote since this is a game full of newbies like myself, and there isn't all that information up in the air the first day, which we can use to base good lynches on.
You make a good point Golden, lynching luckers would be a good alternative. We might also want to keep an eye out for people who make contentless posts, and as you said act "scummy"
I noticed the same yomi, they are currently lurking. And back to the "lynch, no lynch" topic, yomi you make a good point is your previous 2 post. we can't just lynch for the sake of lynching, it needs to benefit the town. And just lynching a townie and not learning anything is just a waste. so personally i'd say lynch if suspicion be, and if not? i see no point in random lynching.
Lol no it wouldn't make me happy, but the information we gain from it outweighs the negative.
We don't get information from No Lynch because no one dies. The only way we get information is if there is a competing wagon against it, and in that case, that information isn't useful until that said competing wagon dies.
Even if nobody is lynched day1, we still gain a ton of imformation through our discussion. Even as we are discussing now, we are starting to get a picture on peoples view points, and where they stand. Sure we get more information when lynching, because we can start to analyse those who were for and those who were againts the lynch. But saying that no information is gained if we don't lynch is just false. Because we still get to anylase peoples behaviour.
Unfortunately, a blanket anti-lynch platform seems very scummy to me. It gains the town nothing to wait and see who the mafia kills given how much time we have been given before the first day ends. If there were absolutely no way to guess who was scum, I'd agree that a no lynch is better than a totally random lynch. However, the first day seems a bit long so that we can have a very good discussion before our decision.
Yes, I have essentially flipped entirely from my earlier stance on lynching. I was however, under the impression that we were almost half-way to the first decision point when I first posted. I will do my best act on better information.
On April 28 2012 18:26 Veriat wrote: Ok here are my thoughts on who are the scum:
The_Zen_Man nreekay324 Jailbreaker
The_Zen_Man You're stance on the "lynch no lynch" discussion has left me a little puzzled, and your overall playstyle seem fishy to me, so you're getting my vote.
nreekay324 All your posts just seem off and scummy. Many of them seem rushed or flawed, and you basically just jumped the bandwagon with your early vote on Why_So_Much. On a side note i did find Why_So_Much's playstyle kind of off, but i don't think he's scum, because then why would you vote for him?
Jailbreaker You've my number 3 due to consistent flaws in your previous posts.
how likely is it that veriat puts 3 townspeople in his scum list right before he dies?
this is the only mention he makes of nreeky that I could find in his filter.
@nreekay - the case I made against Lazer last game revolved around him soft sponging onto other peoples reads, a vote flip as soon as I had made a case against someone and linked him to it, and him leading a lynch of a townie that he stated he thought was a townie (but still voted for him anyway), confessed his play was suspicious, and made some weak scum read cases. He flipped town after being lynched, and it went down similar to jailbreakers lynch this game.
Overall his play has been much better this game, but then he goes and lies in such a way that is impossible to deny, and then admits it (which he had no choice). He has a reason for doing it (which it's good he's posted) and I can believe him. I'm not sure if I do though, so he needs to get very involved in what's going on now - I don't think we can accept any lurking at all from him.
On April 27 2012 13:33 O.Golden_ne wrote: Good Morning.
I'm going to give my opinion on the recent voting events. My initial opinion on a first day lynch was that it was a bad idea to avoid a lynch for the sake of being scared of a mis-lynch. This opinion still stands, however i feel that with such little posting from everyone its very hard to get a good read on anyone making it very easy to mafia to twist the voting without seeming suspicious. I would postulate to everyone who hasn't voted yet to hold off until closer to the deadline and let everyone who has voted thoroughly explain themselves.
I'm not against anyone's votes yet, however i am against voting without any obvious critical analysis out in the open. I want to see where you're coming from. Please show me.
When i open filters, for example nreekay's; I see very little posting or speculating and then the start of a bandwagon against Whysomuch.
I've seen yomi's play before and i understand he likes to be aggressive, and i like his aggression.. i just hope it isn't misplaced aggression and i want him to explain to me why he has picked WhySoMuch other than for his pro-first-day-lynch attitude and his contrary views on the percentages of lynching. i think you have to pick your battles and maybe lynching people with opposing views might not be the key, opposing views lead to discussion, which leads to correct eviction.
@Jailbreaker - why the vote for yomi? please explain. @yomi - can you explain to me your position on whysomuch @nreekay - you have confused me greatly with such an unreasoned vote, please explain @whysomuch - i understand your suspicion for the_zen_man, but do you think it is grounds for a lynching? how strongly do you feel he is mafia? @the_zen_man - please rebut to why_so_much not with a vote but with a clear explanation of your innocence and your views on the people voting for whysomuch.
Golden
This was O.Golden_ne first post were he posted about other players. It may have been because of the early game, but he is not really contributing much here at all, just asking for peoples opinions and answers. He also tries to be the mediator, someone who posts a lot, but is not really adding much.
On April 27 2012 15:05 O.Golden_ne wrote: I agree Jailbreaker, we definitely need some more discourse on people actions. If you feel this voting for yomi will pressure that conversation to happen then i'm happy for you to do that. I also see this vote as a defence of WhySoMuch from Nreekay and Yomi's 'vampires&werewolves' related votes. I really need to hear from these two as soon as possible, with as much detail as they can provide. I want these votes to have a basis rather than being emotional or defensive votes.
Nreekay and Yomi if you two are town you've a strange way of showing it. To me Town is represented by clear, concise and reasoned posts with references and the goal of enlightening the group. Voting for the sake of voting creates an atmosphere of defensive attitudes and alot of misplaced suspicions, please explain your motive.
Still waiting from answers from several people.
Golden.
Here golden tries to make his mediator role more solid, as he is advicing yomi and Nreekay on how a townie should act. Again, not adding much, just asking for others opinions.
On April 27 2012 16:27 O.Golden_ne wrote: Thank you for posting Jailbreaker.
Okay so you feel yomi's vote is for WhySoMuch is due to his lurking.
Just to shed some light on the matter, is it your opinion that an agressive stance towards lurkers (yomi) is less favourable than someone who would jump on a bandwagon such as that so easily? (nreekay). Perhaps the small shred of logic yomi has shown in his lurking argument makes him less suspicious than Nreekay?
I'm just speculating at the moment, still a while to go before i cast any personal judgement.
Golden
Again, he is not contributing that much, only asking for other peoples opinions. He acts like someone who is contributing much, and although he post more than most players he does not add much. This probably led many players to see him as one of the "leaders" of this game.
On April 28 2012 01:54 O.Golden_ne wrote: Hi everyone,
So i've sat back and had a thought about how things are looking and here is my current read. I'm going to post my opinions before bed now, and then cast my vote tomorrow based on any discussion that ensues in the next few hours.
Reasoning: Nreekay has been very elusive. He has lurked, and then jumped on someone else's vote in a fashion that leads me to think he was aiming for a bandwagon. He has had ample time to rebut to any accusations and explain his position on WhySoMuch but has still yet to be heard from. Lurking and impulse voting, i would be happy to lynch him if he can't seriously change his act.
AcesAnoka opened with some confusing statements, then lurked hard. While i understand one can't be active 24/7 i still feel like everything he has posted has been fairly fluffy with not much of substance to it. My read on his vote on yomi is that of the two (arguabley) most suspicious player (atleast, most talked about so far) yomi and nreekay, he would prefer to pick yomi: perhaps because if nreekay is mafia he wants to keep him alive. I feel nreekay appears far more scummy than yomi, and there may be a slight correlation between these two characters.
JailBreaker's stance on yomi is reasoned on his assault on "lurkers". I felt this to be fairly aggressive play for mafia, thats why he is below the previous two. However the logic in his argument against yomi seems flawed, it appears he has targeted him solely for bandwagoning. His largest post to date appears that he is trying to appear helpful (a recurring theme) without doing a whole lot. For Jailbreaker to 'break' out of my 3rd place scum it wouldn't be hard, he would need to add a little more depth to his posting.
Thoughts everyone?
I'm reserving judgement on yomi at the present time, though his aggro play leads me to believe him to be town. His style is similar to Jailbreakers albeit it more active than re-active. The active nature makes him less suspicious to me then Jailbreakers. Currently i'm probably skeptical on yomi and he's probably next under JailBreaker.
@Splinter, @WhySoMuch, @PureSC2 i get town vibes from you three, don't let me down.. @Mordanis you seem town though i'm watching you very closely as you appear very guarded.
@Veriat @LazerMonkey You puzzle me. Get active or i'll start scrutinizing you alot harder and get a proper read on you.
This post might seem like he is adding stuff, but he is really just sumarizing or writing facts that are known to most players. He is adding very little. Also, he complains on others not contributing, and although he has posted much he has not helped much either.
He later post about his hesitation in voting for Veriat, but in the end he post this:
On April 29 2012 06:12 O.Golden_ne wrote: @Mordanis I am willing to vote for Veriat. I've said this several times. Look, we've got one hour left.. as Veriat is on my list so i'll change my vote. I am happy to lynch him based on his general lack of team play, evident in his posts and mainly his lurking. To make this last hour easier for town i'll post my vote now so that it is confirmed. However before i do this remember that no matter what the outcome of todays lynch we have to consider Nreekay and AcesAnoka. I still have strong reads on these players and i will cross-reference their actions to how the lynch pans out when i am better rested.
If Veriat flips town i will want to question those pushing for Veriats lynch over AcesAnoka. If Veriat flips mafia perhaps our town will be a little more unified.
Either way, we will have one less voter and one less lurker.
Here comes the end of our first day.
##Unvote AcesAnoka ## Vote: Veriat
It is true that he voted for Veriat, but that does not make him clear from suspicions. Golden might have seen Veriat as dead anyways (he did have 6 votes already) and decided to vote for him as a late vote would look better than a vote on someone else. He later says that his reason fot the late vote was because he was more suspicous of Aces.
On April 29 2012 13:38 O.Golden_ne wrote: Holy crap,
I was just away from my computer and I'm not sure if im delirious from these strange hours I've been keeping but I've had a thought and rushed back to check the thread. Please hear me out, I know it's night and it makes it a very dangerous time to be posting something like this for fear of getting shot but i really want to put it out there regardless. Here goes.
So AcesAnoka wasn't modkilled, perhaps this is because it would have led to TWO mafia being killed in the first day which is almost unheard of.
Leaves me open to a snipe tonight but I will be asking everyone for their support In a lynch of AcesAnoka in day 2.
Thoughts?
Golden
Then comes this. I am not sure why he posted this at night. He did not push much for Veriats lynch, and voted for him reluctantly in the end, so you can't blame it on him getting his thoughts out in fear of getting killed. Maybe this is an attempt to get a mislynch, as suspicouns of Aces was already high since the vote.
Then there is a lot of going back and forth with him and WhySoMuch, which i will not get into.
And then:
[B]On May 03 2012 22:09 O.Golden_ne wrote: Sorry guys, personal life has been crazy the last few days and i'm afraid i have to pull out of this Mafia game. i'm sorry everyone, things have just been crazy at home and i'm starting my new job this week and i really didn't realise how much thinking this game takes up. sorry, i hope a replacement can be found. I've PM'd artanis/
It is very strange for people to leave this late in the game, as most of those people often leve early. Maybe this is a action done out of fear from the suspicoins that was rising against him. Maybe his scum bro convinced him that a replacement of him would benefit the mafia, as suspicoins of him might decreace.
Making this post has made me more suspicous of golden, and in turn sexdoll. That is why i will vote for him now.
I'm very confident that nreekay is scum but will have a tough time convincing anyone. At best just trust me that my read is bangin after I die.
Read through all of his posts and the element of trying to figure things out isn't there. He's going through the motions and doing what he can to appear like he's hunting scum. Some things that stuck out for me were that:
1) he doesn't mention Veriat AT ALL on d1 2) once Veriat flips scum he tries to do a spew analysis which is a very easy thing for a scum to do because a lot of it will be very very subjective and it allows him to tailor his reads very easily to his own agenda. Not that reading for spew is inherently scummy, it's just that it's often the case that if the bulk of someone's work is spew analysis, theyre more likely to be scum. 3) he does stuff where he goes back and explains what he was thinking at a prior time. This is ANOTHER thing that scum can and will do often. This allows him to do something for a scummy reason, then go back and reverse engineer an explanation for his actions that evidence him being towny. 4) his weird vote on whysomuch at the very start of the game and his subsequent jokey explanation once he got heat for it. (he first gave some cursory explanation, then said it was just because he doesn't like twilight)
But really the read comes from a lack of genuine participation in scum hunting.
I also get teh feeling that the only person actually entertaining the idea that I'm not scum is the guy who made teh big case on golden, Marv. And that's not very good
[QUOTE]On May 05 2012 04:07 The_Zen_Man wrote: [QUOTE]On April 27 2012 13:33 O.Golden_ne wrote:
[QUOTE]On May 03 2012 22:09 O.Golden_ne wrote: Sorry guys, personal life has been crazy the last few days and i'm afraid i have to pull out of this Mafia game. i'm sorry everyone, things have just been crazy at home and i'm starting my new job this week and i really didn't realise how much thinking this game takes up. sorry, i hope a replacement can be found. I've PM'd artanis/ [/QUOTE]
It is very strange for people to leave this late in the game, as most of those people often leve early. Maybe this is a action done out of fear from the suspicoins that was rising against him. Maybe his scum bro convinced him that a replacement of him would benefit the mafia, as suspicoins of him might decreace.
Making this post has made me more suspicous of golden, and in turn sexdoll. That is why i will vote for him now.
##Vote: SexDoll [/QUOTE] Wouldn't this be like, as much WIFOM as it could possibly get?
Reading through the thread I see most people are suspicious of Golden/SexDoll. I wasn't sure that he was scum before but reading what everyones been posting I feel more convinced now than before. I havn't really been able to find any new things on him tho. I'm okay with voting him tho, as I still feel he have passed WhySoMuch on my scum-list.
Regarding The_Zen_Man - I feel my post was very rushed two days ago. What I meant to say was that The_Zen_Man didn't deserve his "untouchable" status he gained after D1. While it may be WIFOM to discuss I feel it is a great possibilty that he posted a case on Veriat in order to look contrubuting and all. That was how I feelt two days ago. After the day one lynch he have always been the one who jumps on teh bandwagon. First with WhySoMuch, when the vote then swang he quickly were in favor of a lynch Jailbreaker. He then jumps on SexDoll woth only a few hours left to post. His only arguement against Golden seems either to be WIFOM or saying that he wasn't contributing. All in all, if SexDoll flips scum I will be convinced that he is town. If not, I am quite positive to that he is scum.
On May 05 2012 05:18 Lazermonkey wrote: Reading through the thread I see most people are suspicious of Golden/SexDoll. I wasn't sure that he was scum before but reading what everyones been posting I feel more convinced now than before. I havn't really been able to find any new things on him tho. I'm okay with voting him tho, as I still feel he have passed WhySoMuch on my scum-list.
Regarding The_Zen_Man - I feel my post was very rushed two days ago. What I meant to say was that The_Zen_Man didn't deserve his "untouchable" status he gained after D1. While it may be WIFOM to discuss I feel it is a great possibilty that he posted a case on Veriat in order to look contrubuting and all. That was how I feelt two days ago. After the day one lynch he have always been the one who jumps on teh bandwagon. First with WhySoMuch, when the vote then swang he quickly were in favor of a lynch Jailbreaker. He then jumps on SexDoll woth only a few hours left to post. His only arguement against Golden seems either to be WIFOM or saying that he wasn't contributing. All in all, if SexDoll flips scum I will be convinced that he is town. If not, I am quite positive to that he is scum.
give examples about the bolded as quickly as possible please
On May 03 2012 06:34 Lazermonkey wrote: Okay so here we go!
I've been thinking about the D1 lynch alot. What is puzzling me is the fact that we actually got a scum on the very first day,aka very rare in mafia. Looking at the people voting we can see that:
So Veriat was scum and Jailbreaker was townie. Now if we assume that noone that voted On Veriat was scum then two of me, nreekay324 and AcesAnoka/Marvellosity must be scum.
Now as for myself, I was seriously thought that Aces was looking way scummier than Veriat at the point of the lynch. I went to bed at about 22:00 and at that point where I left there were alot of indecisiveness on who to lynch. Thus I wasn't able to change my vote, although I'm not trying to archive town cred as I still think Aces looked more scummy in D1.
While I can't be 100% sure that Marv/Aces is town, it makes alot of sense. nreekay324 could very well be scum tho. I still think that the odds of BOTH this players being scum is relativly low. + Show Spoiler +
However, it is possible now that I am actually checking filters. During the 3 pages Marv posted this far he BARLY mentions nreekay324. nreekay324 himself is at first very suspicious against Aces, although when Marv replaces him he suddenly change his mind on him to town. This is somewhat strange to me...
This means that someone in the inner circel, the ones who voted for Veriat in the first place must be scum. I still have a hard time seeing, Pure or Mordanis being scum as they were the ones who pushed for the vote at Veriat.
Note that I'm in fact not including The_Zen_Man. I'm not sure what to think anymore about him. Yes it is true that he posted the first case on Veriat but he didn't actually push the case at all after that. It was Pure and Mordanis who did. during D2 he have posted not much at all. He states that he still think that WhySomuch is scum. I feel he is tunneling a little bit to hard atm and abusing the fact that he is "forever town" after D1. This is alot of WIFOM but for me he has at least lost his never-vote status. I'd say it's most likely he is town atm but not 100%.
The other people in the circel: Golden: Still leaining town here. WhySoMuch: I'm not sure about this guy at all. As I'm lazy I will not post any evidence and such of this tho : ).
I'm thinking that one out of Golden, The_Zen_Man and WhySoMuch is probebly scum. The most likely one is WhySoMuch but I don't want to be too fast on dissmissing the others!
Lazermonkey, i don't know exactly what to make of this. I will leave the d1 lynch part for anylyzing later, now i want to answer to your "suspicions agansit me. Basically, you say that altough i made a case and voted for Veriat early i am suspicous because i didn't push for the lynch. This makes no sense, why would i write a case and vote for him if i didn't want him lynched?
Also, i have only posted one post about WhySoMuch, not tunneled him that hard. The reason i choose him is because i dind't have that strong scum reads on anyone else. But if you want me to go on other people too i can do that. I can start with you. Pure wrote a post including many suspicous things, and reading it made me very suspicous of you. Also, reading this post made me suspicous as well. I, like pure and WhySoMuch, also saw the "Watched the drama on the phone" thing, and now you say that you went to sleep 22.00?
As for the D1 lynch it could be explained in two ways. 1). You were were throwing suspicion at basically everyone at this point. You wanted to look like you were contributing and thus you posted at Veriat aswell, thinking that noone would care about your case. And if Veriat eventually would flip scum you could have some sort of insurance that you would look like town. 2). It was planed all along with Veriat himself.
As for analysing other players, you never posted anything after this post. And yes, I know the phone-thing was noobish like hell but you are quoting Pure atm. Is this your only analysis of me?
On May 05 2012 05:18 Lazermonkey wrote: Reading through the thread I see most people are suspicious of Golden/SexDoll. I wasn't sure that he was scum before but reading what everyones been posting I feel more convinced now than before. I havn't really been able to find any new things on him tho. I'm okay with voting him tho, as I still feel he have passed WhySoMuch on my scum-list.
Regarding The_Zen_Man - I feel my post was very rushed two days ago. What I meant to say was that The_Zen_Man didn't deserve his "untouchable" status he gained after D1. While it may be WIFOM to discuss I feel it is a great possibilty that he posted a case on Veriat in order to look contrubuting and all. That was how I feelt two days ago. After the day one lynch he have always been the one who jumps on teh bandwagon. First with WhySoMuch, when the vote then swang he quickly were in favor of a lynch Jailbreaker. He then jumps on SexDoll woth only a few hours left to post. His only arguement against Golden seems either to be WIFOM or saying that he wasn't contributing. All in all, if SexDoll flips scum I will be convinced that he is town. If not, I am quite positive to that he is scum.
give examples about the bolded as quickly as possible please Basically marv's case.
Lazermonkey: It seems like this post is rushed as well. First tell me this, what is more scumlike, posting a case that convinces several people to vote for a scum, or voting for the other guy and lie about the circumstances of the voting?
Regarding my vote on Jailbreaker, that was done so that we would reach a majority.
Also, i was asked of an opinion of Golden/SexDoll, and when i was investigating him to form a opinion i found him suspicous.
Frankly, i feel like it is a waste of time to be answering to all of these accusations from you Lazermonkey, as they are often weak and lacking in many things. If you really want to prove that you are town, try to contribute with some analysis and cases.
On May 05 2012 05:18 Lazermonkey wrote: Reading through the thread I see most people are suspicious of Golden/SexDoll. I wasn't sure that he was scum before but reading what everyones been posting I feel more convinced now than before. I havn't really been able to find any new things on him tho. I'm okay with voting him tho, as I still feel he have passed WhySoMuch on my scum-list.
Regarding The_Zen_Man - I feel my post was very rushed two days ago. What I meant to say was that The_Zen_Man didn't deserve his "untouchable" status he gained after D1. While it may be WIFOM to discuss I feel it is a great possibilty that he posted a case on Veriat in order to look contrubuting and all. That was how I feelt two days ago. After the day one lynch he have always been the one who jumps on teh bandwagon. First with WhySoMuch, when the vote then swang he quickly were in favor of a lynch Jailbreaker. He then jumps on SexDoll woth only a few hours left to post. His only arguement against Golden seems either to be WIFOM or saying that he wasn't contributing. All in all, if SexDoll flips scum I will be convinced that he is town. If not, I am quite positive to that he is scum.
give examples about the bolded as quickly as possible please Basically marv's case.
that case was made a while ago and you said didn't find Golden scummy before, and you also just said that you're read on me changed because of "what everybody's been posting about me". EVERYBODY and HAS BEEN. plural and present tense.
it's likely that lazer is just jumping on me because I'm a very possible mislynch
On May 05 2012 05:35 The_Zen_Man wrote: Lazermonkey: It seems like this post is rushed as well. First tell me this, what is more scumlike, posting a case that convinces several people to vote for a scum, or voting for the other guy and lie about the circumstances of the voting?
Regarding my vote on Jailbreaker, that was done so that we would reach a majority.
Also, i was asked of an opinion of Golden/SexDoll, and when i was investigating him to form a opinion i found him suspicous.
Frankly, i feel like it is a waste of time to be answering to all of these accusations from you Lazermonkey, as they are often weak and lacking in many things. If you really want to prove that you are town, try to contribute with some analysis and cases.
Obviously lying is. But that is not the point.
And majority would've been reached with or without you vote. It didn't matter. Sure if we were one vote short and it was 15 minutes to lynch-time. But this was not the case.
I don't think it's a waste of time. You've been 100% confirmed town since D1 and have had an insanly easy time to blend in. Yet if you ignore your case on Veriat I'd say you would be a very strong scumread for me.
On May 05 2012 05:18 Lazermonkey wrote: Reading through the thread I see most people are suspicious of Golden/SexDoll. I wasn't sure that he was scum before but reading what everyones been posting I feel more convinced now than before. I havn't really been able to find any new things on him tho. I'm okay with voting him tho, as I still feel he have passed WhySoMuch on my scum-list.
Regarding The_Zen_Man - I feel my post was very rushed two days ago. What I meant to say was that The_Zen_Man didn't deserve his "untouchable" status he gained after D1. While it may be WIFOM to discuss I feel it is a great possibilty that he posted a case on Veriat in order to look contrubuting and all. That was how I feelt two days ago. After the day one lynch he have always been the one who jumps on teh bandwagon. First with WhySoMuch, when the vote then swang he quickly were in favor of a lynch Jailbreaker. He then jumps on SexDoll woth only a few hours left to post. His only arguement against Golden seems either to be WIFOM or saying that he wasn't contributing. All in all, if SexDoll flips scum I will be convinced that he is town. If not, I am quite positive to that he is scum.
give examples about the bolded as quickly as possible please Basically marv's case.
that case was made a while ago and you said didn't find Golden scummy before, and you also just said that you're read on me changed because of "what everybody's been posting about me". EVERYBODY and HAS BEEN. plural and present tense.
it's likely that lazer is just jumping on me because I'm a very possible mislynch
Yes, but like I said I've been super busy IRL. The only thing I've had time to write theese two days was a hasty apology post.
On May 05 2012 05:35 The_Zen_Man wrote: Lazermonkey: It seems like this post is rushed as well. First tell me this, what is more scumlike, posting a case that convinces several people to vote for a scum, or voting for the other guy and lie about the circumstances of the voting?
Regarding my vote on Jailbreaker, that was done so that we would reach a majority.
Also, i was asked of an opinion of Golden/SexDoll, and when i was investigating him to form a opinion i found him suspicous.
Frankly, i feel like it is a waste of time to be answering to all of these accusations from you Lazermonkey, as they are often weak and lacking in many things. If you really want to prove that you are town, try to contribute with some analysis and cases.
Obviously lying is. But that is not the point.
And majority would've been reached with or without you vote. It didn't matter. Sure if we were one vote short and it was 15 minutes to lynch-time. But this was not the case.
I don't think it's a waste of time. You've been 100% confirmed town since D1 and have had an insanly easy time to blend in. Yet if you ignore your case on Veriat I'd say you would be a very strong scumread for me.
it's veriat's case on zen more than zens case on veriat for me that makes him a likely villager
On May 05 2012 05:35 The_Zen_Man wrote: Lazermonkey: It seems like this post is rushed as well. First tell me this, what is more scumlike, posting a case that convinces several people to vote for a scum, or voting for the other guy and lie about the circumstances of the voting?
Regarding my vote on Jailbreaker, that was done so that we would reach a majority.
Also, i was asked of an opinion of Golden/SexDoll, and when i was investigating him to form a opinion i found him suspicous.
Frankly, i feel like it is a waste of time to be answering to all of these accusations from you Lazermonkey, as they are often weak and lacking in many things. If you really want to prove that you are town, try to contribute with some analysis and cases.
Obviously lying is. But that is not the point.
And majority would've been reached with or without you vote. It didn't matter. Sure if we were one vote short and it was 15 minutes to lynch-time. But this was not the case.
I don't think it's a waste of time. You've been 100% confirmed town since D1 and have had an insanly easy time to blend in. Yet if you ignore your case on Veriat I'd say you would be a very strong scumread for me.
I am still conflicted on wether to vote on you or SexyDoll, as you are equally scummy. Could some other people post their views on Lazer and SexyDoll?
On May 04 2012 14:33 Lazermonkey wrote: Okay so I have somewhat of a confession to make regarding the Phone-Veriat thing. I wasn't following in on my phone, I did not go to bed 22:00. Why did I write this? Well, I was fucking scared of the possiblity to get lynched. Last game I several times posted stupid thing all the time which resulted in me getting misslynched D2(aka I was townie). Before the D1 lynch I was not convinced at all that Veriat was scum. So I wanted to apear good townie in not voting for him as 95% of D1 lynches end in a misslynch. After Veriats flip I understood that my I understood that my Vote on Aces would look rather suspicious so I decided to ignore the Veriat-case for quite some time in order to avoid suspicion. When I posted my case before the night post I wanted to underline the fact that I was unable to change my vote, which of course wasn't true.
that case was made a while ago and you said didn't find Golden scummy before, and you also just said that you're read on me changed because of "what everybody's been posting about me". EVERYBODY and HAS BEEN. plural and present tense.
it's likely that lazer is just jumping on me because I'm a very possible mislynch
EBWOP: nreekay324 also posted a case on you. The_Zen_Man aswell although I thought his case was weaker. All in all, I thought marv made the best one and thus why I mentioned him first. Yes, but like I said I've been super busy IRL. The only thing I've had time to write theese two days was a hasty apology post.
On May 05 2012 05:35 The_Zen_Man wrote: Lazermonkey: It seems like this post is rushed as well. First tell me this, what is more scumlike, posting a case that convinces several people to vote for a scum, or voting for the other guy and lie about the circumstances of the voting?
Regarding my vote on Jailbreaker, that was done so that we would reach a majority.
Also, i was asked of an opinion of Golden/SexDoll, and when i was investigating him to form a opinion i found him suspicous.
Frankly, i feel like it is a waste of time to be answering to all of these accusations from you Lazermonkey, as they are often weak and lacking in many things. If you really want to prove that you are town, try to contribute with some analysis and cases.
Obviously lying is. But that is not the point.
And majority would've been reached with or without you vote. It didn't matter. Sure if we were one vote short and it was 15 minutes to lynch-time. But this was not the case.
I don't think it's a waste of time. You've been 100% confirmed town since D1 and have had an insanly easy time to blend in. Yet if you ignore your case on Veriat I'd say you would be a very strong scumread for me.
I am still conflicted on wether to vote on you or SexyDoll, as you are equally scummy. Could some other people post their views on Lazer and SexyDoll?
On May 05 2012 05:35 The_Zen_Man wrote: Lazermonkey: It seems like this post is rushed as well. First tell me this, what is more scumlike, posting a case that convinces several people to vote for a scum, or voting for the other guy and lie about the circumstances of the voting?
Regarding my vote on Jailbreaker, that was done so that we would reach a majority.
Also, i was asked of an opinion of Golden/SexDoll, and when i was investigating him to form a opinion i found him suspicous.
Frankly, i feel like it is a waste of time to be answering to all of these accusations from you Lazermonkey, as they are often weak and lacking in many things. If you really want to prove that you are town, try to contribute with some analysis and cases.
Obviously lying is. But that is not the point.
And majority would've been reached with or without you vote. It didn't matter. Sure if we were one vote short and it was 15 minutes to lynch-time. But this was not the case.
I don't think it's a waste of time. You've been 100% confirmed town since D1 and have had an insanly easy time to blend in. Yet if you ignore your case on Veriat I'd say you would be a very strong scumread for me.
I am still conflicted on wether to vote on you or SexyDoll, as you are equally scummy. Could some other people post their views on Lazer and SexyDoll?
WTFLOL? You havn't been posting anything suspicious on me at all. Why do you post a super long case on Golden/Sexy not even mentioning me and now when I first point at your actions as scummy you immediatly respond by saying that we should vote me? Can you please tell me what you think is so suspicious about me? And why do you say you want other people to post their views but yet you don't post your own.
So as far as voting goes, we don't have a majority on SexDoll yet, rite? And with the The_Zen_Man climbing miles in my Scum-O-meter in an instant I don't even know WTF to think anymore.
I kinda want to go to bed atm, going up like rly early next morning. I'm sticking with SexDoll. If he flips mafia -> The_Zen_Man is probebly just bad. If he flips town ->The_Zen_Man is probebly scum.
Secondly, Lazermonkey, i did express my suspicions here:
QUOTE]On May 03 2012 21:57 The_Zen_Man wrote:
On May 03 2012 06:34 Lazermonkey wrote: Okay so here we go!
I've been thinking about the D1 lynch alot. What is puzzling me is the fact that we actually got a scum on the very first day,aka very rare in mafia. Looking at the people voting we can see that:
So Veriat was scum and Jailbreaker was townie. Now if we assume that noone that voted On Veriat was scum then two of me, nreekay324 and AcesAnoka/Marvellosity must be scum.
Now as for myself, I was seriously thought that Aces was looking way scummier than Veriat at the point of the lynch. I went to bed at about 22:00 and at that point where I left there were alot of indecisiveness on who to lynch. Thus I wasn't able to change my vote, although I'm not trying to archive town cred as I still think Aces looked more scummy in D1.
While I can't be 100% sure that Marv/Aces is town, it makes alot of sense. nreekay324 could very well be scum tho. I still think that the odds of BOTH this players being scum is relativly low. + Show Spoiler +
However, it is possible now that I am actually checking filters. During the 3 pages Marv posted this far he BARLY mentions nreekay324. nreekay324 himself is at first very suspicious against Aces, although when Marv replaces him he suddenly change his mind on him to town. This is somewhat strange to me...
This means that someone in the inner circel, the ones who voted for Veriat in the first place must be scum. I still have a hard time seeing, Pure or Mordanis being scum as they were the ones who pushed for the vote at Veriat.
Note that I'm in fact not including The_Zen_Man. I'm not sure what to think anymore about him. Yes it is true that he posted the first case on Veriat but he didn't actually push the case at all after that. It was Pure and Mordanis who did. during D2 he have posted not much at all. He states that he still think that WhySomuch is scum. I feel he is tunneling a little bit to hard atm and abusing the fact that he is "forever town" after D1. This is alot of WIFOM but for me he has at least lost his never-vote status. I'd say it's most likely he is town atm but not 100%.
The other people in the circel: Golden: Still leaining town here. WhySoMuch: I'm not sure about this guy at all. As I'm lazy I will not post any evidence and such of this tho : ).
I'm thinking that one out of Golden, The_Zen_Man and WhySoMuch is probebly scum. The most likely one is WhySoMuch but I don't want to be too fast on dissmissing the others!
Lazermonkey, i don't know exactly what to make of this. I will leave the d1 lynch part for anylyzing later, now i want to answer to your "suspicions agansit me. Basically, you say that altough i made a case and voted for Veriat early i am suspicous because i didn't push for the lynch. This makes no sense, why would i write a case and vote for him if i didn't want him lynched?
Also, i have only posted one post about WhySoMuch, not tunneled him that hard. The reason i choose him is because i dind't have that strong scum reads on anyone else. But if you want me to go on other people too i can do that. I can start with you. Pure wrote a post including many suspicous things, and reading it made me very suspicous of you. Also, reading this post made me suspicous as well. I, like pure and WhySoMuch, also saw the "Watched the drama on the phone" thing, and now you say that you went to sleep 22.00?
[/QUOTE]
What made me really suspicous is the lying part, as i stated in my post.
On May 05 2012 06:20 Lazermonkey wrote: I kinda want to go to bed atm, going up like rly early next morning. I'm sticking with SexDoll. If he flips mafia -> The_Zen_Man is probebly just bad. If he flips town ->The_Zen_Man is probebly scum.
Lazermonkey, explain to me how SexDoll flipping town makes me scum too?
Lazermonkey: I don't know where you got thw whole "If he flips town ->The_Zen_Man is probebly scum", but if SexDoll flips town i would say you are a more probable scum.
On May 05 2012 06:24 Pure-SC2 wrote: I'm not really here (got 5 minutes before I have to go). I've just quickly read though the latest posts and it's moving really quick.
@Sexdoll - what do you find suspicious about me?
POE
I haven't read you much and have reasons to call the others townspeople
On May 05 2012 06:56 marvellosity wrote: Please try to go into it
post that sticks out is one where he was talking about someone's role and was afraid of getting owned because he thought something they did was villagery but he thought if that person was good enough he could do it as scum. it shows a legit fear that new townspeople often have. haven't seen similar thought patterns in this game. not specifically that thought, but towny thoughts
Final vote count Lazermonkey (1): WhySoMuch SexDoll O.golden_ne Sexdoll (7): Marvellosity, Pure-SC2, The_Zen_Man, WhySoMuch, Lazermonkey, nreekay324, Mordanis The_Zen_Man (0): SexDoll nreekay324 (0): SexDoll SexDoll will be lynched. Apologies, the Night post will be slightly later. Expect it up in about 10 minutes. Please do not post during this time.
My bad, my mistake that mafia is so easy that town wins 100% of the time because reads are 100% correct and the game isn't pointless to play at all because town always wins
The crew went out happily knowing that no one had died today, but knew they still had work to do to find the remaining Simulants. They wanted to make sure to use this time well with idle conversation about the attractiveness of the characters in the Flintstones. Though this did not reveal whom the Simulant was, it did provide a vital clue.. Okay, it didn't. Let's just admit that they wasted their time doing nothing. Holly called upon the crew to inform them that although he was amused at the thought of drawn cartoons being attractive in any way, he'd prefer to discuss about the threat that was threatening the crew.
Red Dwarf's crew nodded and though there was a lot of brainstorming, none of them could come up with a good plan to truly tell whom a Simulant was, as they could take someone's identity with ease. Eventually, they said "fuck it" and pointed out SexDoll. SexDoll proceeded to tell everyone how wrong they were and that they should learn to play, but unfortunately this didn't help in saving his own life. Holly used sleep powder to prevent SexDoll from escaping as Kryten the mechanoid threw him through the Waste Disposal Unit, calling SexDoll a Smeeeeee Heeeeeee (Kryten's attempt at saying Smeghead) before noticing he was, in fact, innocent.
SexDoll the Village Townie has been lynched! It is now night! You have 24 hours to PM me your night actions. Remember that coaching is available from Adam4167, Mementoss and prplhz should you desire it. PM's must be sent to both me and Nova_Terra.
The sad thing is that I thought Sexdoll did a good job of answering the case against Golden, but I couldn't take it seriously because of the case against Golden, the way he left (right after it was clear a case was being made against him), and the unsurity I had about Sexdoll coming in as a replacement.
On May 05 2012 19:19 Pure-SC2 wrote: The sad thing is that I thought Sexdoll did a good job of answering the case against Golden, but I couldn't take it seriously because of the case against Golden, the way he left (right after it was clear a case was being made against him), and the unsurity I had about Sexdoll coming in as a replacement.
Yes, agreed. What are you supposed to do with a replacement though, the whole thing sucked.
Angel should be randing his save between himself and his last night target (if that's allowed). If you don't save yourself make sure you claim before day is posted, if you did save yourself, still claim and try and draw the nk.
On May 05 2012 02:09 The_Zen_Man wrote: Golden/SexDoll is starting to look more and more suspicous to me as more people post cases against him and not only WhySoMuch. Before i thought of him as a good townie, who made some cases and encouraged others to do the same. But his leave from the game is very strange, especially since he left not long after marvellosity said he was compiling a post about him. Also, much of what sexdoll says confuses me. Either he is using advanced logic all the time or he is using fail logic all the time. He has gone up to a big spot in my scum reads. I will wait and observe SexDoll some more before i can form a proper opinion, but for now i can say that i am suspicous of him.
So much in this post is strange... You first think of him as a good townie but you change your mind. Your arguments for this seems to be kind of weak. You think the way he left the game was strange, but that's just to discuss WIFOM at insane levels. And then some random things about advanced logic. Yes, Golden/SexDoll were scummy at the time but not for the reasons you said.
On April 28 2012 04:53 Lazermonkey wrote: Reading through the thread more closely this time.
@AcesAnoka - His posts are just scummier and scummier. Something to add on the case against him are the last posts before he goes to bed. He first is very suspicious about yomi, but when both Golden and Splinter posts some good cases against him he quickly responds with:
On April 28 2012 02:24 AcesAnoka wrote: ##unvote
I haven't thought of it the way you just posted, Yomi.
I need nreekay to explain himself though.
I understand that he needs to go to bed but basically what he does is fleeing from all the allegations by saying '' this case was bad, hope u forget about it till tomorrow''.
@The_Zen_Man Must say that he is acting way to defensive atm. At least if he is in fact a towine. Up untill just an hour ago all he had posted was defensive posts in response to WhySoMuch. He then makes a summary posts which just made me even more puzzled. His conclusions just seem to be way off. The one I was most suprised about was:
On April 28 2012 03:05 The_Zen_Man wrote: AcesAnoka: You seem suspicous to me. You're first comment was rather strange, but i know you shoulnd't judge someone too much based on what they first wrote. I think it was a good thing you put that pressure vote on yomi, after all it did give a response from him.
It's almost like you didn't read anything but the very first pages. Alot of people, me including, have been thinking that AcecAnoka's behavior was more then just strange. This is NOT only due to his first post but mostly due to the yomi-debate. And I don't understand what you mean with I think it was a good thing you put that pressure vote on yomi, after all it did give a response from him.. The only thing yomi said was what everyone was thinking: that he was just trying to start a discussion.
Now this is alot WIFOM. But it IS possible that AcesAnoka were trying to go for a cheap bandwagon on yomi and when he realized that it all failed utterly he was quick to abandon the ship. His scumbro The_Zen_Man tries to to cover his teammate by giving him a relativelynice review in his summary post.
Imo The_Zen_Man seems like a confused townie tho and not lynch worthy at all atm. AcecAnoka on the other hand seems quite a bit suspicious to me still.
reread a little more of lazermonkey because of that other post I quoted earlier and cus I saw whysomuch voting him and think this post is interesting.
Lazer post is a defence of zen_man with an attack on aces (who I think is a likely towno). It's interesting because both cases are very thin and he has fairly strong opinions in opposite directions on each of them.
If Lazer is a scummo, he's very unlikely to take this position if aces and zenman are both towndawgs. It's too viable for ppl to go either way on both of these ppl for him to take such a hard stance on them if they were both townspeople. Scum will either back off on these ppl to let the townsos make a bad decision, or they will chose the line of reasoning that makes either of them more likely to be scum.
SOOO given my initial reads on lazer and aces, if lazer flips scum, we can probably turbolynch thezenman the next day
Please make a better explanation to why i should be "turbolynched" if lazer flips scum?
Also, try to read all of the thread before forming a opinion.
It might be because you just don't understand what he meant but frankly, what was it that you didn't understand with this? And you once again take a super defensive stance right of the bat.
On May 05 2012 05:35 The_Zen_Man wrote: Lazermonkey: It seems like this post is rushed as well. First tell me this, what is more scumlike, posting a case that convinces several people to vote for a scum, or voting for the other guy and lie about the circumstances of the voting?
Regarding my vote on Jailbreaker, that was done so that we would reach a majority.
Also, i was asked of an opinion of Golden/SexDoll, and when i was investigating him to form a opinion i found him suspicous.
Frankly, i feel like it is a waste of time to be answering to all of these accusations from you Lazermonkey, as they are often weak and lacking in many things. If you really want to prove that you are town, try to contribute with some analysis and cases.
Obviously lying is. But that is not the point.
And majority would've been reached with or without you vote. It didn't matter. Sure if we were one vote short and it was 15 minutes to lynch-time. But this was not the case.
I don't think it's a waste of time. You've been 100% confirmed town since D1 and have had an insanly easy time to blend in. Yet if you ignore your case on Veriat I'd say you would be a very strong scumread for me.
I am still conflicted on wether to vote on you or SexyDoll, as you are equally scummy. Could some other people post their views on Lazer and SexyDoll?
...
On May 05 2012 06:31 The_Zen_Man wrote: Lazermonkey: I don't know where you got thw whole "If he flips town ->The_Zen_Man is probebly scum", but if SexDoll flips town i would say you are a more probable scum.
In what way? Your jumping on the bandwagon and change your opinion on who is most likely scum 3 times in 24 hours. You got super defensive when I just started to pressure you. If he would've flipped scum I still would've thought you were town as I have a hard time to belive that you bussed both of your teammates.
All this in just a couple of hours. The_Zen_Man could very well be playing a very tricky game here. He is by far my strongest scumread atm.
To Lazer: I have Zen marked as a townread due to how day 1 went down. Do you have opinion on the Zen/Veriat interaction that seemingly cleared Zen? I'd like an answer before I consider him
Pre-day scumreads: 2 of WSM, Mordanis, nreekay
For some reason my gut says Lazer is town but I don't quite know how to explain it
Hi guys. I just shot Nreekay. SexDoll thought he was scum, and he had a lot more experience than I, so I hope this turns out well. If not, We are probably dead. Here's to hope *toasts the residents of Red Dwarf*.
As was suggested that i should do, i will now reveal that i am a medic. If there is no veteran then i am pretty sure that the seconds nights save was thanks to me. The person i saved was Marvellosity. I have decided to treat him again tonight, as i would think that mafia would not expect that. If there is no veteran we can also assume that Marvellosity is town.
Now, i would like to reveal my scumreads. Lazermonkeys has been tunneling me hard the whole game for some reason. His recent activity, including his lie, has also made me suspicous of him. Although i did not find the time to post a case against him, if i live trough the night i will be sure to do that.
After a wake up call that they were still killing innocent people, the crew of red dwarf had become a bit... Crazy. Drinking out of medical equipment became commonplace and monsters were seen everywhere. This due to the fact that they found out that a polymorph was on board which could change its shape into anything and would not stop until the entire crew was devoured. What happened to Pure-SC2, well, watch the youtube video.
Fueled with vengeance against this monster, Kryten in an act of bravery jumped up on the monster and managed to grab it by the tail. After tossing it around the room the polymorph turned into its original shape. Kryten then realized it was in fact one of their old crewmembers, and quickly opened the airlock and threw Nreekay324 into space. He then entered Smug Mode. Unfortunately, they didn't notice something from the pod the Polymorph came in. They would, however, soon find out.
Pure-SC2 the Village Townie has been murdered! Nreekay324 the Mafia Goon has been tossed out of an airlock! It is now Day! You have 48 hours to make your vote. Remember that voting is mandatory. Not voting will result in a modkill. Coaching is also available from prplhz, Adam4167 or Mementoss should you want assistance.
the only other time it would have been good was the first night, and I didn't feel like randomly shooting. IDK, what other time would have been better?
WhySoMuch: Lazermonkeys case against me is built around that he thinks i bussed Veriat, but it is as Mordanis said. If i wanted to buss someone, why not a mafia goon rather than a roleblocker?
Also, i just claimed i was a medic, and since no one else has claimed either veteran or medic i think we can assume that i saved night 2 and i am a medic.
It is as you said wsm, this game is locked. The only people who are not confirmed townies are you and Lazermonkey. Lazermonkey seems more suspicous to so i will vote for him.
Exactly, there are 5 people left, with 2 lynches and you lynch Me/Lazermonkey in any order and we win. Therefore Lazermonkey should save us some time and concede
nreekay not having voted for Veriat day 1 perhaps suggests mafia did everything day 1 to try to prevent the Roleblocker (as someone pointed out above me) lynch, so despite my gut read Lazer is probably the best lynch target for today
However sometimes they are correct (gut read in LIII was that Ottoxlol was town despite everyone but one believing he was scum). But yes, I may be incorrect. I'm pretty bad at finding scum as it happens.
P.S. I invite anyone to examine the claims at the end of the night.
I don't like to take these things for granted, so at some point (where I am not quite drunk and not at home) I will do so to make sure they check all the boxes
For a while I was suspicious of whether Zen was actually medic or not. Then I realized that if scum fake roleclaimed it'd and could choose who to protect with the roleclaim, it'd probably be the other scum. Since Zen claimed that he protected Marv, and there's only one town left, I think they are both cleared. On the other hand, if there's a veteran then the mafia may have tried to kill him and Zen's protection may have been wasted. This seems like a fairly small probability though. Time to read through Lazer's filter and WSM's filter. after work though. gj everyone!
Yeah, the only other thing that could have happened is that, they didn't send in a NK on night 2 and therefor there was no kill. This seems very unlikely and very poor play by the mafia but it is possible
Endgame Frantically, the last polymorph looked around and noticed it had lost his buddy. It was just him against Rimmer, Lister, The Cat and Kryten, (well, and Holly, but no one counts the ship's AI anyway.) a formidable team. After turning into a can of beans, he managed to get the cat close enough to drain him of all his coolness, turning him into... Dwayne Dibbley.
Unfortunately for him, the rest of the crew heard the shouts and screams of the Cat, and instantly followed the creature into the depths of the ship. The polymorph tried to hide in the cargo hold but it couldn't escape from Kryten's heat seeker. Lazermonkey, the polymorph, decided to change himself into human form and tried to reason with the crew, but Kryten instantly shot LazerMonkey's head off the moment he came close. They used some DNA from his corpse to turn Dwayne Dibbley back into the Cat, and could now rest safely knowing the alien threat was no more, and they were free to go back home. LazerMonkey the Mafia Goon concedes! Town Victory! Post-game analysis to follow.
Roles: 01. Vigilante Mordanis 02. Medic The_Zen_Man 03. Mafia Roleblocker Veriat 04. Mafia Goon nreekay324 05. Mafia Goon Lazermonkey 06. Village Townie AcesAnoka - Marvellosity 07. Village Townie Pure-SC2 08. Village Townie WhySoMuch 09. Village Townie O.Golden_ne - Sexdoll 10. Village Townie Splinter[eP] 11. Village Townie Yomi 12. Village Townie Jailbreaker
I can write a long post-game analysis later, but the main problem this game was Mafia did absolutely nothing in Day 1 which led to Town lynching a Mafia by chance, which near-confirmed a ton of people and made it near impossible to win from there. The rest of the game was neigh impossible from that starting point for Mafia.
On May 07 2012 02:10 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I can write a long post-game analysis later, but the main problem this game was Mafia did absolutely nothing in Day 1 which led to Town lynching a Mafia by chance, which near-confirmed a ton of people and made it near impossible to win from there. The rest of the game was neigh impossible from that starting point for Mafia.
Yeah, I found it impossible to believe Mafia would just sit there and let Veriat get lynched, but apparently that's what happened o.o
First off, Thank you to the Mods, Artanis and Nova, for modding this game. I know you had a lot of things to worry about with all the subs and that nonsense but the game still progressed smoothly. I also know it's time-consuming to Mod so thank you for taking time to do it for us.
Few things:
1) How is town normally suppose to win these things with majority lynch in effect? On day 1 it takes 7 of 9 town's to lynch a mafia, that's nearly unheard of. And if your wrong, then subsequent days it becomes even harder needing 6 of 7 towns to lynch a mafia. There's no point in the mafia bussing at any point in the game, if they just make cases against other players. The only way to balance it out is to add insane power roles for the village. We got super lucky with our power role games and lynching the RB'er d1
2) If you have a one-time vig, it is best to use it early rather than later. Yes it was good shot and was key to allowing us to win this game, but what if you were nk'ed one of the nights.
3) Wtf is with the hate on lists? Yes I made a list and everyone was on that list for a reason, it wasn't random.org. Lists are good.
I dunno about the vig thing, i think night 2/3 is best time. night 3 can pretty much be a guaranteed kill on mafia, so it can be hugely advantageous. if you have someone who is absolutely awful day 1 though and you just want him gone, that can be a good vig shot too.
I dont like lists. its easy for scum to make an ez list with their scum bros anywhere on it and point it out later as contributing. Filter analysis is the way to go. (at least in my opinion)
They weren't random. And maybe posting them at night is a bad thing, I've never played where you are allowed to talk at night so that might be fair but to say lists are bad in general I disagree with
whysomuch is so annoying I love how he said I posted "kind of towny". I'm the first one to vote veriat. mafia picked up on it. bunch of donks. looking forward to not noob game big time.
@ Yomi: You did nothing but vote. Yes you were right, but it was early in the day, and you didn't push the lynch. It could easily have been a bus that you wouldn't think catch on. It's not like I called you mafia for it, it just wasn't lock clearing like some of the others. No one voted Veriat cause you voted him. I think the n1 kill was not good so I wouldn't flatter yourself saying "mafia picked up on it". PureSC/THe_Zen_Man looked way better than you did.
@thezenman- what was your reasoning for prot marvel? did you really have a town read on him or did u just think he was likely target.
TBH I really wasn't around for the deadline D1 lynch. If i hadn't fked up my ##unvote i woulda been under not voting. And when I showed up later, I was like WTF QQ.
nreekay324: I figured that you would not want him in the game, as he jumped in mid game and contributed a lot right of the start. He seemed like a mafia target.
i do agree with WSM that vigs should be used as early as possible. getting killed before you get a chance to use it hurts a lot.
To explain a little further, assume that after d1, you have a list of players and arrange them from most towny to most scummy. Scum will be making their kills from the top of the list. If you take your shot at someone at the bottom of the list, even if you don't kill a scum, you'll likely kill a mislynch, which is almost as important. You're still increasing your chances
What killed us was the D1 lynch preatty much. Yes, The_Zen_Mans save and Mordanis shot was nice too but I think you guys would've won even without them. I really didn't get Veriat's play at all. He basically saced himself and got us suspicious just after the first day. The reason I lied about not being able to switch vote was simply way for me to save him. But I really think I should've either bussed him hard or at least try to save him.
I'd like to hear some opinions about my play, pref from Nova and/or Pure as they were in my last game. Did you think I played well?
Thanks very much to the hosts, I really loved the theme - it added a lot to the game My death video made me laugh
Lazer - I thought you played a lot better as "town" this game right up until the lie. I'm annoyed at myself because I knew it was really sus, and especially with you not voting Veriat day 1. I was certain that the other 2 scum were in you 3 who didn't vote Veriat, but both you and nreekay did quite a good job like I said up until that lie. During the night (before I died) I had gone through the filters and saw the way nreekay was just easy bandwagoning on to the other votes and figured he was scum, then it was down to you and marv.
Marv did a great job coming in like he did, I found it really hard to trust him at first but definitely had a town read on him, and I almost think that The_Zen_Man coulda claimed the save that day, but its still likely golden/sexdoll woulda got lynched.
I'm a bit annoyed I went with the Golden over Lazer lynch, because I really didn't see it in marvs case against Golden, I had him, TZM and mord as my town reads from early on, but I liked marv and his style and let that rule me a bit, and then with the replacement thing I really didn't feel like I could trust anything sexdoll said so kinda just went with that. In hindsight, we had Lazer dead to rights after that blatant lie and he shoulda been voted in place of Golden/Sexdoll.
Mord, I think you played really well and pulled out that vigi shot at the perfect time. I know there is a risk that you coulda been taken out without shooting, but I'd rather that over killing off a townie (e.g. golden) and helping the mafia. I also had a good town read on you from early.
The_Zen_Man - you were my main town read after the case against Veriat and the save you pulled on Marv was great. I'm kinda in two minds as I think there coulda been some benefit of claiming that night, but also maybe not, and since it turned out right, it was a good thing to do. Shoulda saved me the next night
WhySoMuch - sorry I was a bit hard on you. I was getting a really mixed read on you and with your last minute sign-up, was pretty convinced you were a smurf account or something, playing this elaborate deception, and I really couldn't shake that perception, especially after Sexdoll joining and your interaction with him. My biggest gripe was that you have this strongly ingrained sense of you know exactly what is what, and felt that you actually caused more confusion than was good for town, so I'd say if you want to help town more, be a bit more circumspect in how you post and the reasons you go after people (e.g. against TZM and Golden this game specifically).
Going to read through the obs+scum qt threads now gg everyone
I think I might call it quits with mafia now, as it's so time consuming and ultimately frustrating when other people don't put the time in and/or just pull out early.
As of now we have about 56 hours untill lynch time, so we are in no hurry. However it's always nice to get the discussion going as fast as possible.
As for lynching, I think we shouldn't be to fast to judge based upon what they say in the very beginning, especially since this is a noob game. Alot of people are inexperienced and WILL ''scumslip'' even tho they are townies. I'm not saying that you shouldn't analyse what people are saying, but rather that you shouldn't tunnel someone just because you thought something they said in one of their very first posts was suspicous.
Step up and post now : )
Your first post is a big scumtell, pretty much saying 1 thing and then clarifying it and repeating, and adding stuff so that nobody can use anything you say againt you. looks like you're afraid of saying anything solid for fear of people disagreeing with you, it just turns into a bit of a fluff mess while it looks like contributing. If i was in the game, there is a good chance i would have rode you hard for a while after that (like solohan)
when comparing this to your last games first post, that one seemed to have some confidence and willingness to make a decision, so overall i would have lynched you day 1 on meta and not willing to make a solid opinion
Later in the game you had some good moves, but it didnt matter at that point as all blues were still in the game, and both you and nreekay had 0 town credit as a result of not lynching veriat (why didnt you?) and lurking most of the game. Your play got better and better, but you were pretty screwed after your early game play.
after day1/2, it was becoming apparent that you and nreekay would die, so you should have tried to hard bus eachother and blue snipe. Blues are immensely powerful at late stages of the game. Also you never mentioned either of your scum buddies until after veriat died. you shouldnt be afraid of talking to and calling out your scum friends, especially day 1 where it is likely that a vote can be switched around very easily.
Was not expecting this. BTW, all of the credit for my shot has to go to SexDoll. I was leaning towards marvelosity, and it was his post which convinced me to shoot nreekay. And of course, thanks to the hosts, you guys were amazing!
I think you waited until the right moment Mordanis. If you shot the night before, you could've caused a mislynch or lose situation where it'd basically be taking the town from having another lynch. Taking the shot on day 3 meant it was either LYLO or 4-1 which was a good decision. I think you played your role perfectly.
Artanis, how much do you think the town's victory was due to luck? I feel like the lynch of Veriat was pretty lucky as a scum lynch, and I'd say my shot was fairly lucky (just sort of trusted the intuition of Sexdoll.)
On May 07 2012 05:02 Nova_Terra wrote: Also you never mentioned either of your scum buddies until after veriat died. you shouldnt be afraid of talking to and calling out your scum friends, especially day 1 where it is likely that a vote can be switched around very easily.
Thanks for the tip` I personally was really timid about actually talking to lazer in the thread, and only really mentioned him after i was forced to.
On May 01 2012 16:00 Mordanis wrote: This is the prime example of the illogical world that Nreekay has been posting from. Final read from this: This paragraph exudes illogic and dumb-townie. Almost too much so. It feels, somehow, contrived
^ I have to say I laughed when I read this, but this read also really made me think about my posts from an outside perspective
On May 07 2012 14:23 Mordanis wrote: Artanis, how much do you think the town's victory was due to luck? I feel like the lynch of Veriat was pretty lucky as a scum lynch, and I'd say my shot was fairly lucky (just sort of trusted the intuition of Sexdoll.)
I would say a combination of luck and bad play from scum's side. After Veriat got lynched with none of the mafia voting for him it was going to take some serious misplay from town's side to still lose at that point.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n99/chuiu/TLmafia_new.png)
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