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On April 24 2012 21:58 Bluelightz wrote:
Dear Toady:
First, MrZentor is scum for contributing minimally(Not saying that I've contributed more then him though), I'm not very sure of this however cause this is his normal trolling :/
Secondly, prp seems scummy, well, because I think that his pushing against MrZentor seems like him trying to distance himself with him.
I've got a problem with this line of thinking. On the first day of the game why would prphlz try to distance himself from Zentor when the guy was never really close to getting lynched? If both of them are Scum and it's the first day of the game that would be a pretty dumb thing to do. prp would have no need to distance himself from Zentor, especially since it wasn't until the end of the Day that many people really seemed to believe the guy was Scum.
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On April 24 2012 22:07 Bluelightz wrote:
Toad, could you elaborate in why you disagree with my reads? <3
nope
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On April 24 2012 22:16 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 21:58 Bluelightz wrote:
Dear Toady:
First, MrZentor is scum for contributing minimally(Not saying that I've contributed more then him though), I'm not very sure of this however cause this is his normal trolling :/
Secondly, prp seems scummy, well, because I think that his pushing against MrZentor seems like him trying to distance himself with him.
I've got a problem with this line of thinking. On the first day of the game why would prphlz try to distance himself from Zentor when the guy was never really close to getting lynched? If both of them are Scum and it's the first day of the game that would be a pretty dumb thing to do. prp would have no need to distance himself from Zentor, especially since it wasn't until the end of the Day that many people really seemed to believe the guy was Scum.
Good point...... So, I guess prp is town. He has contributed more as well.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On April 24 2012 20:33 prplhz wrote:
@Bluelightz, Radfield
Can you give me some more input on MrZentor please. I still think that he is the scummiest in this thread. I know that you guys think that it's not mafia like to draw attention to themselves with an overly aggressive style like that, but I'm arguing that it looks forced and fake (and it's not townie style either!).
With the amount of ad hominem jabs he's taken at me and Forumite he's either scum or an asshole and from the communication I just had with him in Space Station, he seemed like a really cool guy. He's just ignoring me now which makes absolutely no sense to me, I imagine that a townie would either try to explain stuff to me (since I'm actively trying to understand) or he would call me scum but he does neither and it seems really fake. I'm really angry with myself for not just pushing his lynch harder yesterday and getting it over with, he's going to be such an annoying factor in this game for me from now on no matter what his alignment is.
What do you think about the no-lynch? Isn't it weird that town didn't just scramble for "information lynch" or whatever? I see it as a huge mistake that we didn't just lynch MrZentor yesterday. I should just have pushed his lynch harder.
I think Zentor is town. His posting was casual and confident to start the game, he seems unafraid of consequences in his posting and is not looking to make friends. He is also seemingly shooting from the hip, posting whatever seems to come to him when it comes to him. Additionally he has been confident and cocky about his own towniness, above and beyond what I would expect of a mafia player.
On the flip side, his case on you prplhz was somewhat stretched and fabricated. Of course any case made a few hours into Day 1 will look like that but it still didn't look great.
I see him as pretty surely town, and a bad Day 2 target.
Ace, if we're both alive on Day 2 we can discuss this further, but I'm not going to devote any more time to it right now.
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I have a question for you, Radfield.
How do you go from this:
On April 24 2012 05:19 Radfield wrote:
I don't think sbrubbles or snarfs are very good lynches.
Honestly, I don't really feel like doing the last hour scramble, and I don't think we will net scum doing that anyways. I'd be fine with a marvellosity or bluelightz lynch, but I doubt that gets us anywhere either.
However, no-lynching doesn't really do us any good. Right now we have lylo on day 4(assuming no SK), and if we no-lynch we still have mylo on Day 4. However, if there IS a serial killer in the mix, every extra townie will count.
To this:
On April 24 2012 06:55 Radfield wrote:
##vote no lynch
catching up
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EBWOP: Emphasis mine in the first quote.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
I was saying I was ok with a marvellosity or bluelightz lynch, but didn't really see either of them as particularly likely to flip scum. ie, I was not going to push either, but I was willing to be swayed.
My comments regarding no-lynch is that we don't get any truly tangible benefits from a no-lynch. For instance, imagine if by no lynching yesterday we would give ourselves an extra mislynch down the stretch(ie, push lylo from Day 4 to Day 5). In that situation, a no-lynch has tangible real benefits.
When I said " it doesn't really do us any good", I did not mean that a no-lynch is bad. Simply that it literally doesn't do us a lot of good. In this situation, I think a no-lynch was better than a mislynch(which is not always the case).
Not to mention that I was voting 5 minutes before the deadline in an obvious no-lynch situation 
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On April 25 2012 01:33 Radfield wrote:I was saying I was ok with a marvellosity or bluelightz lynch, but didn't really see either of them as particularly likely to flip scum. ie, I was not going to push either, but I was willing to be swayed. My comments regarding no-lynch is that we don't get any truly tangible benefits from a no-lynch. For instance, imagine if by no lynching yesterday we would give ourselves an extra mislynch down the stretch(ie, push lylo from Day 4 to Day 5). In that situation, a no-lynch has tangible real benefits. When I said " it doesn't really do us any good", I did not mean that a no-lynch is bad. Simply that it literally doesn't do us a lot of good. In this situation, I think a no-lynch was better than a mislynch(which is not always the case). Not to mention that I was voting 5 minutes before the deadline in an obvious no-lynch situation
I don't think it was that obvious. We had 4 votes on marv with all three of VE, prpl and yourself saying that you are willing to lynch marv. VE voted Sbrubbles to prove his willingness to lynch a lurker / marv (?!?!) and said he was fine with lynching marv. You because you were fine with it for whatever reason, I don't recall something specific there (!) and prpl because he wanted to avoid a no-lynch and out of nowhere 15 minutes before the deadline VE gets in here telling people he had a change of heart, you get in here voting a no-lynch as well, Ace gets in who had no proper clue about what was going on either, therefore voting some random guy who never was up for lynch.
You understand that I think the last 30 or so minutes before the deadline yesterday were pretty weird, don't you?
Not to mention that I still think marv is / was a good plan B, at least better than a no-lynch.
So basicly we were in a Situation were you (rad) tell people it's stupid to lynch a vet because they could be a strong town asset. Next thing happening is VE posting some crap like this:
On April 24 2012 06:20 VisceraEyes wrote:
Rad made me rethink voting marv - I went back and reread the beginning of his newbie game that I read and he did find himself the victim of early suspicion.
I'm willing to no-lynch in this situation. In my opinion a no-lynch is better than a mislynch in this situation and I'm not confident enough in any of the lurkers anymore - there has been a lot of activity here toward the end, and it's hard to tell if it's because there's a scum candidate or because no one wants a no-lynch or what.
What do you think Toad? Do you think we should lynch a lurker or no-lynch? I'm okay with no-lynching to be frank.
which basicly tells us that we don't lynch lurkers either, which brings me to the question:
Are you the bad guy manipulating VE when he is uncertain or is VE the bad guy using your uncertainty to get out of this for whatever reason (hint: in this explanation marv would be mafia)
It feels a little like you're behaving like blue, who's most recent post has to be the biggest troll ever, because I told him to stop calling EVERY SINGLE GUY in this game a townie and that we eventually have to lynch someone to get rid of mafia which finally gets him to post a scumread just to answer that one with another "yeah I guess I was wrong, that guy is a townie as well".
The difference here is that you are not blue. Neither is VE and one or the other is being manipulative imo.
--- Toad
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Okay. Another one.
If you're town then you're likely to die tonight anyways, so why save your reads for the next 5 hours rather than give them now? If you're going to die, I would like a chance to discuss your reads with you before that happens.
Also, it seems more likely that scum would let you live if you were wrong than that they would be more inclined to kill you if you're right. They're probably going to assume you're right until you say something wrong. Just WIFOM, I know, but a thought 
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+ Show Spoiler +On April 25 2012 02:00 SamuelLJackson wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 01:33 Radfield wrote:I was saying I was ok with a marvellosity or bluelightz lynch, but didn't really see either of them as particularly likely to flip scum. ie, I was not going to push either, but I was willing to be swayed. My comments regarding no-lynch is that we don't get any truly tangible benefits from a no-lynch. For instance, imagine if by no lynching yesterday we would give ourselves an extra mislynch down the stretch(ie, push lylo from Day 4 to Day 5). In that situation, a no-lynch has tangible real benefits. When I said " it doesn't really do us any good", I did not mean that a no-lynch is bad. Simply that it literally doesn't do us a lot of good. In this situation, I think a no-lynch was better than a mislynch(which is not always the case). Not to mention that I was voting 5 minutes before the deadline in an obvious no-lynch situation I don't think it was that obvious. We had 4 votes on marv with all three of VE, prpl and yourself saying that you are willing to lynch marv. VE voted Sbrubbles to prove his willingness to lynch a lurker / marv (?!?!) and said he was fine with lynching marv. You because you were fine with it for whatever reason, I don't recall something specific there (!) and prpl because he wanted to avoid a no-lynch and out of nowhere 15 minutes before the deadline VE gets in here telling people he had a change of heart, you get in here voting a no-lynch as well, Ace gets in who had no proper clue about what was going on either, therefore voting some random guy who never was up for lynch. You understand that I think the last 30 or so minutes before the deadline yesterday were pretty weird, don't you? Not to mention that I still think marv is / was a good plan B, at least better than a no-lynch. So basicly we were in a Situation were you (rad) tell people it's stupid to lynch a vet because they could be a strong town asset. Next thing happening is VE posting some crap like this: Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 06:20 VisceraEyes wrote:
Rad made me rethink voting marv - I went back and reread the beginning of his newbie game that I read and he did find himself the victim of early suspicion.
I'm willing to no-lynch in this situation. In my opinion a no-lynch is better than a mislynch in this situation and I'm not confident enough in any of the lurkers anymore - there has been a lot of activity here toward the end, and it's hard to tell if it's because there's a scum candidate or because no one wants a no-lynch or what.
What do you think Toad? Do you think we should lynch a lurker or no-lynch? I'm okay with no-lynching to be frank. which basicly tells us that we don't lynch lurkers either, which brings me to the question: Are you the bad guy manipulating VE when he is uncertain or is VE the bad guy using your uncertainty to get out of this for whatever reason (hint: in this explanation marv would be mafia) It feels a little like you're behaving like blue, who's most recent post has to be the biggest troll ever, because I told him to stop calling EVERY SINGLE GUY in this game a townie and that we eventually have to lynch someone to get rid of mafia which finally gets him to post a scumread just to answer that one with another "yeah I guess I was wrong, that guy is a townie as well". The difference here is that you are not blue. Neither is VE and one or the other is being manipulative imo. --- Toad
Toad, I've been wondering this myself.
VE says he's up for lynching lurkers, votes me -> Rad says me and snarfs would be a bad lynch but would accept lynching marv or blue -> VE is convinced by that post that a no-lynch is better (huh?), votes no lynch -> Rad votes no lynch -> marv doesn't get lynched by 3 votes
The thing is, even though I can see both of them as suspicious, I was getting the vibe (from the interactions between them) that they couldn't both be mafia, but I'm starting to rethink that. If one of them flipped red, do would think that would clear the other?
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On April 24 2012 06:47 Ace wrote:
@phagga: I guess you didn't see Bluelightz play in DFM 2.
I did see it, but forgot about it. Point taken.
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On April 25 2012 02:20 Sbrubbles wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 25 2012 02:00 SamuelLJackson wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 01:33 Radfield wrote:I was saying I was ok with a marvellosity or bluelightz lynch, but didn't really see either of them as particularly likely to flip scum. ie, I was not going to push either, but I was willing to be swayed. My comments regarding no-lynch is that we don't get any truly tangible benefits from a no-lynch. For instance, imagine if by no lynching yesterday we would give ourselves an extra mislynch down the stretch(ie, push lylo from Day 4 to Day 5). In that situation, a no-lynch has tangible real benefits. When I said " it doesn't really do us any good", I did not mean that a no-lynch is bad. Simply that it literally doesn't do us a lot of good. In this situation, I think a no-lynch was better than a mislynch(which is not always the case). Not to mention that I was voting 5 minutes before the deadline in an obvious no-lynch situation I don't think it was that obvious. We had 4 votes on marv with all three of VE, prpl and yourself saying that you are willing to lynch marv. VE voted Sbrubbles to prove his willingness to lynch a lurker / marv (?!?!) and said he was fine with lynching marv. You because you were fine with it for whatever reason, I don't recall something specific there (!) and prpl because he wanted to avoid a no-lynch and out of nowhere 15 minutes before the deadline VE gets in here telling people he had a change of heart, you get in here voting a no-lynch as well, Ace gets in who had no proper clue about what was going on either, therefore voting some random guy who never was up for lynch. You understand that I think the last 30 or so minutes before the deadline yesterday were pretty weird, don't you? Not to mention that I still think marv is / was a good plan B, at least better than a no-lynch. So basicly we were in a Situation were you (rad) tell people it's stupid to lynch a vet because they could be a strong town asset. Next thing happening is VE posting some crap like this: Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 06:20 VisceraEyes wrote:
Rad made me rethink voting marv - I went back and reread the beginning of his newbie game that I read and he did find himself the victim of early suspicion.
I'm willing to no-lynch in this situation. In my opinion a no-lynch is better than a mislynch in this situation and I'm not confident enough in any of the lurkers anymore - there has been a lot of activity here toward the end, and it's hard to tell if it's because there's a scum candidate or because no one wants a no-lynch or what.
What do you think Toad? Do you think we should lynch a lurker or no-lynch? I'm okay with no-lynching to be frank. which basicly tells us that we don't lynch lurkers either, which brings me to the question: Are you the bad guy manipulating VE when he is uncertain or is VE the bad guy using your uncertainty to get out of this for whatever reason (hint: in this explanation marv would be mafia) It feels a little like you're behaving like blue, who's most recent post has to be the biggest troll ever, because I told him to stop calling EVERY SINGLE GUY in this game a townie and that we eventually have to lynch someone to get rid of mafia which finally gets him to post a scumread just to answer that one with another "yeah I guess I was wrong, that guy is a townie as well". The difference here is that you are not blue. Neither is VE and one or the other is being manipulative imo. --- Toad Toad, I've been wondering this myself. VE says he's up for lynching lurkers, votes me -> Rad says me and snarfs would be a bad lynch but would accept lynching marv or blue -> VE is convinced by that post that a no-lynch is better (huh?), votes no lynch -> Rad votes no lynch -> marv doesn't get lynched by 3 votes The thing is, even though I can see both of them as suspicious, I was getting the vibe (from the interactions between them) that they couldn't both be mafia, but I'm starting to rethink that. If one of them flipped red, do would think that would clear the other?
Disagree with you rethinking. It's like you (and I) just said, probably one of them is mafia and the other guy is town but yeah, both are suspicious and I'm not sure who's the townie and who's the mafia.
Both being mafia just makes no sense for some other reasons.
--- Toad
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You have around 3 Hours left to Submit Night actions
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Do you two want to discuss anything before the deadline? I´ve been spacing out since the lynch, got to get back into the game.
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On April 25 2012 05:31 Forumite wrote:
Do you two want to discuss anything before the deadline? I´ve been spacing out since the lynch, got to get back into the game.
what do you think happened yesterday
--- Toad
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On April 25 2012 05:35 SamuelLJackson wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 05:31 Forumite wrote:
Do you two want to discuss anything before the deadline? I´ve been spacing out since the lynch, got to get back into the game. what do you think happened yesterday --- Toad
For me what went wrong was getting back too late, and not fully examining the different cases being discussed at the time. I stayed on MrZentor, and I don´t regret that, but I should have pushed it more.
I´d like to think that MrZentor survived the lynch because his scumbuddies made sure there was a no-lynch, but with 7 votes required to vote, I don´t think scum needed to do much to help us with that. What went wrong was us not deciding for ourselves who to lynch. It´s much harder to get a lynch going if you need a majority.
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EPT
