EPTcan you at least make an effort to understand what i am saying rather than throwing away you vote.
TL Mafia 'Area' LIII - Page 2
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
can you at least make an effort to understand what i am saying rather than throwing away you vote. | ||
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layabout
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He flipped town in the end but he did manage to do a lot of damage on the way. So i don't think he is off. I think he might be town. | ||
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layabout
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##unvote marvellosity BH's case was good when you consider how early on it was posted. The case was centred around the idea that marvellosity was actively lurking (at the beginning of the game. Marvellosity is no longer actively lurking I think that marvellosity has tried to be more open and has reacted to BH's increasingly ridiculous pressure in a very town like way. This BM wagon doesn't appear to have any grounding. It is a mindless vote on a lurker, the sort that usually hits town and is easy for scum to hop onto. If you are on that wagon please consider that there are definitely town lurkers and if you pick one at random you are likely to pick town. If somebody else picks a lurker and you support them then there is not only the chance that they will pick town by chance but the chance that they are scum and they are deliberately picking tow. Thirdly, The only reason to not vote for VisceraEyes is the following: You believe that he is telling the truth about his claim. If you believe that then you also have to believe that VisceraEyes would make that appalling move as the real town Jailkeeper. | ||
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layabout
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layabout
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On April 22 2012 22:38 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm frustrated because rather than read my posts, you'd rather just vote for me because someone else told you "I'm better than this." I disagreed with gonzaw's plan because it demanded cooperation of ALL of the town power roles. It ties up THE ENTIRE TOWN FORCE in directing vigs (which are one-shot by the way) toward their one target each in the hopes of killing one scum each (if town is lucky). A mass-claim would be viable if the vigs weren't 1-shot, but they are. So no, I don't agree with using MY role according to town's wishes because at this point, there's no way to know if town sentiment is being swayed by scum. Since I know my own alignment, I'm going to trust my own judgement on how to use my power. Now, you disagree with the manner in which I claimed. Cool story bro. I don't care. If you want to lynch me for claiming a town PR then go for it - you're not the only person on TL who feels like D1 claims are BS. BC comes to mind - he insta-lynches D1 claims. I don't care about that either. I care about town winning - and if you lynch me and I flip JK, you're going to take my suspicions more seriously because you know my alignment. And town will win. And vicariously, I will win. So do what you wanna do ottox. As of right now, I'm beyond caring. I've told you who's scum. Either vote with me today or vote in my name tomorrow after I flip - either way, I get to win. Why did you claim in response to a plan that received more negative feedback than good, that was no longer being discussed and had next to no chance of being implemented? The only cooperation that would have be needed would be for the jailkeeper to not act on two specific players, that really is not a lot to ask, especially when interfering would cause confusion. What's more you don't even seem to understand the goal of the plan which was to prevent fake vig claims. You later pretend that you claimed because "I die N1 in almost every game I play in." While it's true that scum are less likely to kill me with votes on me, you've never played a game with me and you don't know how often I die N1. I die N1 in almost every game I play in. Now, here's a little secret: by claiming and having votes on me, I actually expect to live the night now so that scum can attempt to push me tomorrow. This is fine and expected - but it's a bridge I'll cross when I get to it. Now i have played quite a few games with you and this claim seemed off so i checked, and it is! + Show Spoiler + you replaced into space station during the night and were shot but you had a vet item and survived-town you died night 3 in bastard - SK you were in lynched day2 in TL mafia LI which ended the game - mafia you died on day1 in Death Factory 2 mafia after you took a big risk and ended up being killed by a hidden mechanic because of that - town you were killed night 1 in the sum of all fears mafia - town you were killed night 1 in jubjub mafia- town you lived to the end in C9++ mafia- town you lived to the end in storm mafia- SK So you have died night one in 2/7 games you have been shot by mafia in 3/7 either way you are lying. If you disagree feel free to go back further. Also, the notion of claiming you role for no reason to become a viable lynch target, so that mafia will not hit you at night is dumb on so many levels. Claiming a town power role in response to a case against you when you have 3 votes (BM marv slOosh) is most definately a move. | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
On April 22 2012 23:48 VisceraEyes wrote: ##Unvote: Bill Murray ##Vote: VisceraEyes For anyone concerned about me "playing to my win-condition", D1 discussion is ruined and I can accept my part in that. Lynch me, flip me, and do what you will with the information. You'll win with it. And therefor, I'll win. I'm playing to my win-condition. gg They are criticising me..... better throw a tantrum! + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/p5k7N.png) | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
On April 23 2012 00:03 VisceraEyes wrote: Not a tantrum - just not interested in defending myself further. If anyone wants to listen to reason I can feasibly get down on a scum lynch, but I'm not going to waste any more time defending myself when it's useless. But you know, continue to be a jerk about it laya...that's about par for the course where you're concerned. Why should i vote for anyone else when you have made a nonsensical claim and have not responded to any of my criticisms called me scum, told me to "Fuck off", martyred yourself and refused to further defend yourself. + Show Spoiler [Also] + If you are a jail keeper then you cannot even confirm you power to the thread since Players will not be notified if they are jailed. | ||
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layabout
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On April 23 2012 01:05 Mattchew wrote: we should lynch BM cause he claimed scum in thread by ninja voting he did not claim scum in the thread. | ||
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layabout
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A Bill Murray lynch is easy to hop on and that is for a good reason. He seemed eager to play before the game starts but he has done nothing to show that he even cares about town winning. The problem with VE is that lynching him is high risk, but since his reaction to questionng has been to martyr himself i think that right now we should take that risk. | ||
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layabout
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On April 23 2012 02:11 PaqMan wrote: And what if Bill Murray is a GF? What should our vigi do after BM is shot but doesn't die? There is no need to worry about that now, it isn't helpful. | ||
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layabout
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We don't need another candidate right now. No doubt there are people that will not be back again before the deadline and there are people (Europeans) that will only be around for a few more hours. We need to consolidate our votes. We have two candidates in "danger": ViceraEyes who has 6 votes - one of which is him so that's only really 5 votes + Show Spoiler + slOosh marvellosity Bill Murray Ottoxlol layabout VisceraEyes BillMurruay who has 4 votes + Show Spoiler + Mattchew Janaan St. Daniel johnnywup We now have two people with two votes that stand an outside chance of being lynched Risen + Show Spoiler + gonzaw Mementoss marvellosity + Show Spoiler + BlazingJitsu BroodKingEXE We also have 4 players with a single vote Mattchew + Show Spoiler + PaqMan layabout + Show Spoiler + Risen +the OMGUS twin's [UoN]Sentinel he didn't change his vote to VE in the thread + Show Spoiler + ghost_403 ghost_403 + Show Spoiler + [UoN]Sentinel Anybody voting for somebody that stands no chance of being lynched needs to switch their vote. If the number of players on the leading candidates are so small then we as a town will have wasted our numbers advantage and given mafia the opportunity to control the lynch. | ||
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layabout
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On April 23 2012 03:32 Mementoss wrote: The more I think of it, the more I agree and like Gonzaws points on why lynching Risen is better than VE or BM. VE very well could be JK, his claim doesn't make sense either side. If we don't lynch him and his claim is true, scum will most likely take care of him either tonight or the next night. Maybe by then he can somehow prove his claim. I think its best to wait it out. Worse case by lynching him we take out our own blue. Let mafia waste KP on that. BM should be vigged if we have a vig, claim the shot before you shoot. If he doesn't die, We know that, either the shooter or BM is GF. Hes lurking and acting scummy, but hard to tell cause he has like 3 posts. Lynching him doesn't tell us anything if hes town, shooting him is the better option. Also I like gonzaws case on Risen. His posts lack meaning and consistency. He has a hard time to commiting to anything and his emotions are all over the place. Im happy with a Risen lynch over the other two. Risen looks scummy, and the other two cases will hopefully work themselves out with night actions/ VE somehow confirms his claim then gets killed by mafia KP. ##Unvote: VisceraEyes ##Vote: Risen If we don't lynch him and his claim is true, scum will most likely take care of him either tonight or the next night. If VE was right about anything it's that he is not a good shot for mafia. Saying let's not lynch this guy that people are willing to lynch because if he is town the mafia will kill him for us is crazy. If VE is town they his a a walking mislynch tying his own noose. Since mafia's greatest threat is the lynch, townies that might get mislynched are townies that the mafia benefit from keep alive.Maybe by then he can somehow prove his claim Please come up with a scenario in which this could happen. I can't think of one. If he doesn't die, We know that, either the shooter or BM is GF. no we don't (cough jailkeeper or a liar cough ) Lynching him doesn't tell us anything if hes town, shooting him is the better option. wtf?who is lynching him for information? point them out so that we can all say that you never lynch for information because that is dumb, you lynch to hit scum. I don't get this "I want us to vig BM not lynch him" the lynch is reliable but a vig shot in a game that might not have vigi's could have multiple Jailkeepers and has 2 bulletproof mafia is not garanteed to get us a flip. | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
On April 23 2012 04:39 Mementoss wrote: 1]Wat. Why wouldn't mafia wanna kill the JK? They probably won't tonight. But they eventually will have to. You really think they are going to leave a potential JK alive all game? If he can't prove his claim/ mafia doesn't kill him we can eventually lynchhim. 2]He can prove his claim by JKin a person and if we have a tracker tracks him, then if we have a tracker they can correctly say he did. Or if he happens to JK someone that was going to be hit by mafia and successfully saves him, aka only 1 KP goes through. I think your just being ignorant with this statment lol. 3]What JK is going to JK BM? None. None that want town to win. Also, as town why would you lie? You claim your shot before hand and then if it doesn't go through on BM its either a fake claim or GF. Lynch them both and we get 1 for 1. No reason for vig to lie at all. Also can you really tell someone is scum off of 3 lines of post/ action? I doubt it. Thats why it seems like a complete guess if hes scum or not. That is why he is a good vig shot. Lets lynch someone with the best case against them that is most likely to flip scum. 1]>insert didn't read gif< you ask me a question in response to something which answer that very question. My point is that scum will be in no hurry to kill VE if he is a Jailkeeper, because they can quite easily get him mislynched which protects them and because they can legitimately call him out for being scummy and because attention on him is attention that isn't on them. 2]Oh right. We can prove his claim if somebody whos role we cannot verify without killing them claims tracker and tells us that he visited them. Nobody is confirmed until they flip. we can only verify that he visits somebody if a player tells us he visited them and then flips tracker. We then know he visited them. We cannot know if he protected them until we know for certain that the player he visited was not a Godfather and was not visited by a jailkeeper, because it is still possible that he is a goon or a vig. Even then it would still be possible (but pants on head retarded) that he is a tracker. 3]My point is that if he does not die after somebody claims to have shot him there are a number of possibilities.You said that if he didn't die we would know that either the shooter of BM was a Godfather. But not only would we not know but we have a player that claimed uncooperative jailkeeper. If you were a jailkeeper with a townread on BM would you let him get shot? Probably not. Well what if a vig claims a shot on a godfather? If the mafia kill him then there should be no vig shot and we cannot infer anything about the target. You insisted that we don't lynch BM but vig him instead. I have explained why we cannot rely on vigi's to kill players for us. If you believe that as town you shouldn't lie and you believe that VE and Johnny are scumbuddies then i think your vote is on the wrong person | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
On April 23 2012 05:06 johnnywup wrote: I wouldn't worry about me MG. I'm always sheepy unfortunately. Does that mean I'm scum? No. It just means I'm bad and can't find arguments myself easily. But yeah, BM definitely is scummy in that he's here but he's not posting...but we won't get any information out of lynching him, so a vig shot would be better for him, like others said. Zephirdd looks scummy as hell though. + Show Spoiler + Zephirdd has hardly any posts so this should be a simple case. All of which are scummy. On April 21 2012 12:58 Zephirdd wrote: /confirm Usually millers have to claim as soon as they realize they are millers; However in this case the millers are also vigilantes, and we can't really protect them without RBing them. I also will see a problem when, for example, one person claims vigilante; as in, the GFs didn't claim. Suddenly all the info we got from these "claims" is that our only vigilante is outed and mafia got a target on his head. gonzaw didn't seem to care about this one possibility; I don't like that. I didn't read much past page 10 tho, and gotta go to sleep and go into my inactive mode(as I said before the game). That's all. ~cya Here, let me provide you information that you already know! On April 22 2012 06:10 Zephirdd wrote: k, too much to catch up on, too little time. I see gonzaw arrived a reasonable way to "plan" vigilantes here. That is, a vigilante should just play as a normal vigi. I still can't be sure who I should vote. I see marvellosity is leading the votecount, can someone provide me a link to a case of his, or even a page where I can find it? I know it's silly to ask for that, but I am really busy atm and as much as I can condense what is happening, the easier it will be to catch up. I promise I'll do better day2 onwards Indecisive, not scumhunting, doesn't want to put in effort to help town (even though he's busy he should be able to look for at least that), apologetic about his inactivity. all simple scum tells. I'm busy I'm busy, please, try make more excuses. On April 23 2012 00:17 Zephirdd wrote: God damnit layabout. I was about to post how VE's claim made sense and how he was town, but then you convince me the opposite. Geez. And this martyring post from VE only makes sense from two PoVs: - He really is a JK and he will let town use his flip information to deal with what happened during the day - He is scum trying to sound like that. Also, right now, I see no reason to lynch Bill Murray - he should be vigged, not lynched if he doesn't contribute soon. VE, what is your stance on gonzaw, especially after his series of (Seemingly) drunk posts? Also, please make the case against the certain scum you are talking about. Should you flip JK, we got something solid to work from. In fact, I'll take you are claiming scum if you don't do that. this post is just ridiculous. layabouts post seemingly made him drop all of his opinions and run the opposite direction in order to stay with the crowd. gives information we've already taken into account. asks questions and asks ve to make a case when he still hasnt made any of his opinions known besides that he thinks ve may be scum because he claimed. wow what an original opinion he arrived at. then goes on to say VE is scum if he doesnt comply with his own wishes...lol. On April 23 2012 02:07 Zephirdd wrote: Gonzaw, please tell me why should we lynch risen over VE right now. There was a post RIGHT before that that zephirdd was referring to...which answered that question. If he saw the post, why didn't he read unless he's trying to ask questions to fit in? On April 23 2012 02:13 Zephirdd wrote: I thought it was common sense that vigis claim their shot beforehand in order to allow JKs to coordinate themselves and especially because scum shouldnt NK a vigilante.. okay thats great but do you have anything new to add? a scum case? because as far as I'm concerned you're not doing anything pro-town at all. this post just makes himself look confused or smart or whatever in order to fit in. just ridiculous. ##unvote ##vote zephirdd you put your vote on a real candidate now and stop trying to spread confusion | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
@People that unvoted VE why would you unvote a player that knows better than to do this as town but did it anyway: On April 22 2012 23:48 VisceraEyes wrote: K this game is no longer interesting to me. I'm not interested in defending myself. ##Unvote: Bill Murray ##Vote: VisceraEyes For anyone concerned about me "playing to my win-condition", D1 discussion is ruined and I can accept my part in that. Lynch me, flip me, and do what you will with the information. You'll win with it. And therefor, I'll win. I'm playing to my win-condition. gg | ||
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layabout
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On April 23 2012 05:17 Mementoss wrote: EBWOP: Last minute claims would solve this though. If they die, we know the shot didn't go through. If not we can realize that they are either lying or BM is GF. Then we can still lynch into them and go 1 for 1. So I retract what I said. Also JK is not going to JK BM. I don't think anyone has a "good" town -read on him as you say. Again a large part of my point is that you were telling us that we could draw certain conclusions when in fact we could not. | ||
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layabout
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On April 23 2012 05:25 Mementoss wrote: Alright maybe I am misunderstanding you on multiple occasions. But Im pretty sure WE CAN draw conclusions from this. Im pretty sure its agreed on. Ill go through the situations: 1. Vig last minute claims and shoots. He dies. His shot didn't go through. Inconclusive. 2. Vig last minute claims and shoots. The other person comes up town. Cause of the claim and extra KP we can assume he isn't lieing and is town. 3. Vig last minute claims and shoots. The other person doesn't die. We lynch into them, because either a) The shot hit a GF or was faked. So we lynch them first. Then if they don't flip GF the other person is lying, and we lynch them and they flip GF. b) The target was JK'd. But you should be able to pick a target that you know won't be JK'd so we can ignore that. you wrote this: If he doesn't die, We know that, either the shooter or BM is GF. I pointed out that this was incorrect. I think you have acknowledged it on some level. So can you put some of your newfound effort into looking at the play of all the players yo are willing to lynch? | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
On April 23 2012 05:33 Risen wrote: Honestly johnnywup is my biggest scumread atm Pac. I have no idea why he thinks forwarding another lynch candidate at the last second is a good idea, and it just shits up the thread. Do we take the case against him seriously? Do we try and organize everyone to swap their votes over to zeph even though no one else has mentioned zeph as a serious candidate thus far? We can't do that, we don't have the time. I know I was against it before, but I don't see how marvel could be pushing a lynch on VE right now. We can't lynch our claimed JK. It's been stated in the thread but I'll state it again. You don't lynch a claimed doctor, and we shouldn't lynch the closest thing we have to a doctor. Is it possible VE is lying? Yup. He might be lying and be a vigi, or a tracker, or scum, or vanilla. Doesn't matter. The only shitty thing is that the person who is jailed doesn't know they were jailed, so I don't know how to confirm his claim. Regardless, a vote on VE is stupid. It's just like everyone who voted for me when I claimed a guaranteed sane detective with a red check. Only an idiot would vote for said blue unless it was LYLO. It's applicable here. We can't lynch someone who claims such a powerful blue role right now. Is it a shitty claim? Yeah. I don't think it was smart, but we have to roll with it now that it's in the open. Any trackers watch him, I guess. I'm voting marvel. Pre-EBWOP I just looked at the voting thread prior to hitting post. What the hell is going on? How can you lynch a claimed blue? This is so stupid. If need be I'll vote BM b/c I'm all for lynching someone who's being useless, but for now my vote is resting on marvel. ##vote marvellosity You are aware that if you act like this then mafia are 100% safe from your vote? The time you were lynched it was also because you had been shitting up the thread for days and nobody trusted you. Plus when you flipped they had a confirmed red check, so the loss was not so bad. The situations are not particularly comparable. This is far more like day1 of storm mafia. | ||
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layabout
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If you believe that he is lying then there is next to no chance that he is town and lynching him is in town's best interests. | ||
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layabout
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