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On April 20 2012 09:14 ArcticFox wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2012 09:12 Xatalos wrote:On April 20 2012 09:10 ArcticFox wrote:On April 20 2012 09:07 Xatalos wrote:On April 20 2012 09:04 ArcticFox wrote:On April 20 2012 09:02 Xatalos wrote:On April 20 2012 08:56 ArcticFox wrote:On April 20 2012 08:55 Xatalos wrote:On April 20 2012 08:51 sandroba wrote:
lol seriously? How in hell you guys don't lynch into the DT or DT check?
It's lylo and you trade 1 out of 2 for 2 out of 6. Really guys, this should be basic math. I'm also quite baffled as to why I was lynched in the end... And I still can't believe Willz was town! How in the... His play was SO scummy it had no bounds. I agree. I had willz as scum right up until yomi made the switch off of Dittert. Then I was like "fuuuuuuck. it's KB + yomi + allin. fuuuuuuuck." Willz was like 4th scum with his play though. It just made no sense. WHY was the vote between KB/Xatalos instead of KB/Dittert? ONE of those two had to be scum, no way town would claim vs. town there. I should have seen the signs when suddenly KharadBanar and imallinson voted for me out of nowhere. At first I thought KharadBanar was in some huge trap of illogical thinking, but the more he posted, the less I started to trust him. Like I said in ObsQT, Dittert didn't make it exactly easy to believe he was town with his posting. If it had been like...func who said it, or even vK, town would have just insta-lynched KB without a second thought. But with that logic, if you think for a few minutes, it has to be an either/or between Dittert/KB. Either Dittert's fakeclaiming or he's not. Then it makes 0 sense for mafia to fakeclaim there and the rest of his QT wouldn't let him do it. It's an easy KB lynch. Yeah... It seems like Dittert's strategy was to make himself too suspicious to be shot at night, but it backfired hard, since nobody trusted him anymore. To be fair, until like 12 hours ago I had you pegged as scum too, so I'm not too great at my reading yet. XD When did you come to the conclusion I would be Mafia? And how did you figure out I was actually town? Inexperience mostly. What I was reading as "wild logic and random accusations" was just active townie behavior. I came to my senses when Matt set me straight for like the 4th time that I should be looking for motivations, and not tunneling on perceived scumslips. When I re-read your filter today, it finally all clicked together. Never clicked for me on willz though. willz play had me confused all fucking game.
We can do this... we can learn to do better.
I thought my coaching subjects played well dittert and acro did some unconventional shit that i would have advised against but i wanted my coaching to be more general. Artic and VonKlaust played very very well i thought. Idk if i actually coached yomi and broodking cause of the one and done responses.
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On April 20 2012 09:29 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2012 09:14 ArcticFox wrote:On April 20 2012 09:12 Xatalos wrote:On April 20 2012 09:10 ArcticFox wrote:On April 20 2012 09:07 Xatalos wrote:On April 20 2012 09:04 ArcticFox wrote:On April 20 2012 09:02 Xatalos wrote:On April 20 2012 08:56 ArcticFox wrote:On April 20 2012 08:55 Xatalos wrote:On April 20 2012 08:51 sandroba wrote:
lol seriously? How in hell you guys don't lynch into the DT or DT check?
It's lylo and you trade 1 out of 2 for 2 out of 6. Really guys, this should be basic math. I'm also quite baffled as to why I was lynched in the end... And I still can't believe Willz was town! How in the... His play was SO scummy it had no bounds. I agree. I had willz as scum right up until yomi made the switch off of Dittert. Then I was like "fuuuuuuck. it's KB + yomi + allin. fuuuuuuuck." Willz was like 4th scum with his play though. It just made no sense. WHY was the vote between KB/Xatalos instead of KB/Dittert? ONE of those two had to be scum, no way town would claim vs. town there. I should have seen the signs when suddenly KharadBanar and imallinson voted for me out of nowhere. At first I thought KharadBanar was in some huge trap of illogical thinking, but the more he posted, the less I started to trust him. Like I said in ObsQT, Dittert didn't make it exactly easy to believe he was town with his posting. If it had been like...func who said it, or even vK, town would have just insta-lynched KB without a second thought. But with that logic, if you think for a few minutes, it has to be an either/or between Dittert/KB. Either Dittert's fakeclaiming or he's not. Then it makes 0 sense for mafia to fakeclaim there and the rest of his QT wouldn't let him do it. It's an easy KB lynch. Yeah... It seems like Dittert's strategy was to make himself too suspicious to be shot at night, but it backfired hard, since nobody trusted him anymore. To be fair, until like 12 hours ago I had you pegged as scum too, so I'm not too great at my reading yet. XD When did you come to the conclusion I would be Mafia? And how did you figure out I was actually town? Inexperience mostly. What I was reading as "wild logic and random accusations" was just active townie behavior. I came to my senses when Matt set me straight for like the 4th time that I should be looking for motivations, and not tunneling on perceived scumslips. When I re-read your filter today, it finally all clicked together. Never clicked for me on willz though. willz play had me confused all fucking game. We can do this... we can learn to do better. I thought my coaching subjects played well dittert and acro did some unconventional shit that i would have advised against but i wanted my coaching to be more general. Artic and VonKlaust played very very well i thought. Idk if i actually coached yomi and broodking cause of the one and done responses.
Matt <3
It was SO hard watching from the QT because NOBODY WAS PUSHING THE LURKERS. Any of KB, func, allin, Dittert (pre-DT claim), Hiro (pre-lynch) or vK (pre-Day 3) could have been scum and nobody would have known. The only reason I zeroed in on Hiro as blue was because when he posted, it was posts that actually said something.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
I still have no idea how KB got away with what he did and how he posted last day there O.o
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From scum QT:
KharadBanar
04-13-2012
01:58 PM ET (US)
OK to your comments about Xatalos. Also ArcticFox is looking to be more dangerous now, he's got us practically figured out.
If the Yomi lynch had proceeded as planned, imallinson was my next target.  KB was blending well, I didn't have him figured out until much later.
Of course after that lynch screwed up and the fallout from it my reads went all over the place. x.x
Edit: If anyone around is still qualifying as a nub like me, join http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=329508 so we can have more fun! =D
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As a psychology major, I think I can say that a lot of newbies suffer from what is called "conformation bias." You think "X is scum" and then you do everything in your power to find ways to make that statement true, ignoring all evidence to the contrary. Its ok to be wrong as town, as long as your aren't maliciously wrong.
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ps. syllo and sand why did you have a scum read on willz, he was so aggressive and willing to put himself in the forefront. Although him and Xata made up the best scum team out, neither of them should have read as scum. Willz for being willing to put his neck on the line day 1 and xata for being so transparent despite being all over the place. If you read Xata's filter its literally his exact thought process throughout the game
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On April 20 2012 09:52 GreYMisT wrote:
As a psychology major, I think I can say that a lot of newbies suffer from what is called "conformation bias." You think "X is scum" and then you do everything in your power to find ways to make that statement true, ignoring all evidence to the contrary. Its ok to be wrong as town, as long as your aren't maliciously wrong.
HOW HARD DID I CALL PEOPLE CALLING OUT DITTERT AS A FAKE CLAIM.
NANNY NANNY BOO BOOO YOU SAID IT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN :D
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On April 20 2012 09:40 marvellosity wrote:
I still have no idea how KB got away with what he did and how he posted last day there O.o
I had no idea either right after the fake DT claim, and the "post crazy shit mode" didn't exactly help
But one thing I realised was the following:
willz22912 was very very set on seeing Xatalos lynched that day.
I just had to vote for Xatalos and willz would see me as confirmed town; everybody else could see me as willz's scumbuddy all they wanted as long as Xatalos received 4 votes before me. I proceeded to go balls to the wall with this strategy, which descended into "post crazy shit mode" when Xatalos realised my willz defense was worth nothing, but I intuitively knew that willz himself was far too biased from me actually defending him to see that my play was essentially a huge chewbacca defense. Also note the frantic posts in the scum QT at the time ("yomiiiiiiiiiii vote xat as fast as you can plz" and that stuff") which show how much I was focused on just a voting race and keeping willz' vote where it was.
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I could equally as well have gone with Xatalos and voted against willz and it would probably not have occurred to Xatalos that something fishy was afoot, but I was afraid that willz could probably make a bit too much sense with his defense and I decided for Xatalos.
I also plan to post a detailed story about this game from my point of view which you can show to your friends to convince them why mafia is such an epic game. Maybe the things I did will make more sense to you then.
Much fun was had in this match. GG!
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On April 20 2012 09:59 KharadBanar wrote:
I could equally as well have gone with Xatalos and voted against willz and it would probably not have occurred to Xatalos that something fishy was afoot, but I was afraid that willz could probably make a bit too much sense with his defense and I decided for Xatalos.
I also plan to post a detailed story about this game from my point of view which you can show to your friends to convince them why mafia is such an epic game. Maybe the things I did will make more sense to you then.
Much fun was had in this match. GG!
But if you were really town then Dittert was 100% scum. A KB town wouldn't settle for anything other than a Dittert lynch, and you barely pushed for it. It should have been so transparent :x
Edit: especially given the town is at lylo and must lynch scum...
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On April 20 2012 10:04 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2012 09:59 KharadBanar wrote:
I could equally as well have gone with Xatalos and voted against willz and it would probably not have occurred to Xatalos that something fishy was afoot, but I was afraid that willz could probably make a bit too much sense with his defense and I decided for Xatalos.
I also plan to post a detailed story about this game from my point of view which you can show to your friends to convince them why mafia is such an epic game. Maybe the things I did will make more sense to you then.
Much fun was had in this match. GG! But if you were really town then Dittert was 100% scum. A KB town wouldn't settle for anything other than a Dittert lynch, and you barely pushed for it. It should have been so transparent :x Edit: especially given the town is at lylo and must lynch scum...
This is what confused me, from both a town and scum perspective -- Why, in either case, would you push so hard for a Xatalos lynch, when it's obvious that either one or the other of Dittert or KB absolutely 100% *MUST* be scum. Then from there, Xatalos took it the rest of the way with the Dittert needing to be actual DT or the claim makes no sense, and KB has to be scum.
Simple -- if you think Dittert is fakeclaiming, you lynch Dittert. If not, lynch KB. I have absolutely no idea how you swung a Xatalos lynch out of that. We figured you just thought you had town outplayed so hard that you were just showing off or something.
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Sigh, I should have seen a lot of this in hindsight.
My apologies to town, Dittert claiming DT when he did should have resulted in either lynching Dittert or KB, one of the two HAS to be lying, and I was suspicious of KB because like I said, I saw him in Newbie VI and he was doing nothing similar to that here.
I was actually willing to switch to KB at some point because people kept bringing up Dittert's claim being possibly true, but Xatalos kept insisting I was Mafia nothing would have convinced him in my mind, and I had my reasons for thinking he was Mafia as well.
Any advice appreciated, I really bungled this game, need to back off Mafia for a bit.
I knew Dittert had to be town but his behavior especially as DT was so erratic all game that I couldn't keep that line of thinking without going WHY?
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EBWOB: To be honest as well, I also sort of gave up trying to figure things out with all the confusion. Reading the obsqt is both funny and sad. Sorry for the terribleness all around.
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Well, like poker, mafia is a stamina game as much as a logic game. Personally I tend to crash out under pressure and lose the ability to read or post. Other players can carry on making 30 posts a day but their thinking process becomes totally warped. I'm not sure what you can do about it. In my case, strong sedatives would probably be effective 
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Read through all of OBSqt, I should have taken a break after certain amounts of posts and came back with a clear head, think I'll do that in the future more often than sitting around re-reading the thread.
Also very sad that my intention in this last newbie game was to play really well and I did the exact opposite, "4th scum" indeed.
It all looks so obvious now jesus, I was on Yomi between rabidly defending myself to Xatalos for just jumping in and voting, and then imallinson makes the random decision to support me after he contradicts himself. And KB was acting really really silly considering he was on the opposite end of a DT check. Sometimes I really hate missing the obvious.
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Its important to remember the Assasin's creed
Nothing is True, Everything is premited.
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Hey Greymist, if you need a co-host I think I'd like to do one of those things before taking another stab at a full fledged Mafia games.
Thanks to all your hard work in hosting these games, and for designing Aperture, you really are awesome. Also, a psychology major, you have an advantage over us mere mortals =(
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On April 20 2012 11:40 willz22912 wrote:
Hey Greymist, if you need a co-host I think I'd like to do one of those things before taking another stab at a full fledged Mafia games.
Thanks to all your hard work in hosting these games, and for designing Aperture, you really are awesome. Also, a psychology major, you have an advantage over us mere mortals =(
pro-tip, when the first scum gets lynched, reveal his teammates
On April 20 2012 11:30 willz22912 wrote:
Read through all of OBSqt, I should have taken a break after certain amounts of posts and came back with a clear head, think I'll do that in the future more often than sitting around re-reading the thread.
Also very sad that my intention in this last newbie game was to play really well and I did the exact opposite, "4th scum" indeed.
It all looks so obvious now jesus, I was on Yomi between rabidly defending myself to Xatalos for just jumping in and voting, and then imallinson makes the random decision to support me after he contradicts himself. And KB was acting really really silly considering he was on the opposite end of a DT check. Sometimes I really hate missing the obvious.
Most of my best mafia is played when I am driving after pouring over the thread for hours. Walking away from the game is always a good idea at points
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what did you guys think about my play this game?
I thought my biggest tell was vouching for willz for no reason and there was one other thing I was really regretting after I did it but I don't remember atm
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You played pretty well as scum, you played lurky enough that no one could use your posts against you, but you stayed more active than the bored townies. I like how you guys saw my fail of an anti-mafia post as "divine intervention"
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EPT
