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VE, I find your '2 phase' case against Toad to be unconvincing.
The first section does a really good job of highlighting why Toad is Toad, not why Toad is scum. He waffles, it's kind of his thing. You claim he is not scum hunting yet in some of the posts you have quoted to make your case, he is telling us who he finds suspicious (WBG) and why that is so (because of his early actions in the thread).
Accusing him of being 'unfocused' on a single target during D1 is ridiculous. Adapting to new information as it arises in the thread and changing direction accordingly is not a sign of scummyness, as long as his reasons are made apparent.
On April 11 2012 22:15 VisceraEyes wrote:
Wha the fu...Kenpachi?! What happened to Risen? You mentioned Bugs again, but Risen has been at the top of your list with Bugs until THIS POST. And don't worry - he doesn't think Kenpachi is scum either - he clearly states that Kenpachi is "null" for him...but wants to shoot him anyway. That's horribly anti-town, because killing someone for being useless is fucking anti-town. Period.
This is a contradiction. You want to kill Toadesstern for being anti-town, because he wants to kill Kenpachi for being anti-town.
The second 'phase' of your case is mostly confirmation bias, you've started with your conclusion that toad is mafia, then fitting the facts in around it. I do not think saying "I can dish out some town reads" is a 'scum slip' at all.
The rest is just repeating more of the same from 'phase 1' - saying that toad is unfocused because he has so many targets, and that he waffles. Neither of which I find to be proof of him being scum.
As for your claim, I really do not know what to make of it. I cant fault the timing as others are, you are getting close to the majority, but what good does it do us from here? You will no doubt be shot or role-blocked for the remainder of the game, so if you are telling the truth, we just lost our cop just as surely as if you were lynched anyway.
Toad, trying to prove you are confirmed town through the night actions is asinine and completely irrelevant. No one is confirmed town through night-kills unless they are shot, dead and flipped. Trying to prove your towniness through that is just wasting time, spend your time hunting down the remaining scum instead.
BH, good to see you've reappeared, why are you ignoring what I said about you. Are you even reading the thread? You really don't seem to give a shit about tracking down scum.
On April 12 2012 04:40 Blazinghand wrote:
If you don't like my playstyle, lynch me. Or are you too afrad??? I'm an aggressive player. Deal.
Are you seriously are goading a player into lynching you... You are trying to incite more drama into an already wrecked-up thread.
You claim that VE has 'basically claimed scum', yet fail to put together any kind of case against him. For comparison, look at some of the cases he posted in Purgatory mafia (filter) or one from Storm (link). I know I already posted the purgatory filter previously but I really do think it needs to be restated since no one seemed to really take notice before (during all the chaos -_-). The difference is literally night and day, he has ZERO drive to scum hunt in this game. No cases, just bickering with Fourface or talking about VE's claim or sanity.
This is not town BH. Not a chance.
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EBWOP:
Fuck, yeah of course leave the suffix out as well.
I already made a post about BH's behaviour since he came back into the thread. He only commented on VE based on that "sanity" argument of his claim, and nothing else.
On D1/N1 he tunneled ST and 4Face, and didn't comment about anything else. Literally anything.
Compare it to his play in Soaf (he was town)...got it? Yeah, BH is either Traitor (could be likely) or scum.
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Mementos's filter in the OP links to ghost's filter. Fix pls
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VE wants to kill johnnywup now LOL
you jubjubs say you want to consolidate, then name like seven different people you want to lynch.
If this is the way the rest of the game is going to go I might be better off just trolling, since I'd probably still be playing more seriously than some of you are right now.
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On April 12 2012 14:52 gonzaw wrote:
EBWOP:
Fuck, yeah of course leave the suffix out as well.
I already made a post about BH's behaviour since he came back into the thread. He only commented on VE based on that "sanity" argument of his claim, and nothing else.
On D1/N1 he tunneled ST and 4Face, and didn't comment about anything else. Literally anything.
Compare it to his play in Soaf (he was town)...got it? Yeah, BH is either Traitor (could be likely) or scum.
I suppose you're right. We could lynch him. Anyone else agree?
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I didn't say I want to lynch him, I said he's the only one I'd be supportive IF we were to do so, which it's not really an option.
Unless someone posts convincing evidence that both VE and Toad are town, we lynch one of them. They will continue their little feud between them, and I'm sure they'll continue being scummy (in their own ways) and not contribute as we'd like them to do if they were town.
Unless someone has a master plan to avoiding lynching VE or Toad that benefits town in any way, then go ahead and say it.
The thing is that for now I don't really know which one of them to lynch first 
At least now both of them have made "stupid" claims (I still want Toad's answer, if he has one).
I need people to post their thoughts on the "bigger picture", not just specific thoughts about Toad and specific thoughts about VE.
Yes, Katina said that maybe both are scum planning a bus. Wbg and Tunkeg said that they found Toad town (wbg not so much I think) and VE is scum, and presented reasons for that "scenario".
I don't remember other people posting their thoughts about it.
Because, like everybody knows, there are 4 scenarios: Both are scum, both are town, Toad is scum/VE is town, or Toad is town/VE is scum.
I want to know which one of them is likely considering all the shit that's been going on, and that's the thing that bothers me.
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@wbg I'm sharing thoughts with gonzaw. Sorry if you think that's anti town. It doesn't mean I'm straying away from VE/Toad.
Nisani, let's go with no. KK? VE or Toad. Is it bad that I keep on quoting advice from other people? Like Ace said:
In fact if I was playing this game I'd refuse to do anything for the Town unil this situation is resolved. Look at the big picture, fix the easy stuff first. Worry about everything else later or until more information comes through.
I'll do a re-read tomorrow. But I'm starting to think VE's play is more scummy than not. Sorry for being a wishy washy idiot, town =/
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I'll vote after Toad explains his shitty claim.
I'll go to sleep too.
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They're feud is incredibly stupid.
The only reason it got started is because ve wanted toad dead to see his sanity. It's very possible that they're both town.
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I'm running into a problem. I'm seeing more scum than there are town.
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On April 12 2012 13:02 gonzaw wrote:Toad, why did you claim right now? Dude, the votes are almost equal with you and VE. You don't have an information role with new information to give to town. Another thing: If you live today, and you are really a vet, you become useless! Scum will know you are a vet and will never shoot you. If you didn't claim and VE got lynched, then perhaps scum would shoot you and your role would be useful. Even if you are getting lynched, then claiming your role is useless like I said before, so even then it's better for you not to claim. Show nested quote +I know the claim does basicly nothing (like VE's !) but in case people actually want to lynch me I just feel obligated to give out every piece of information I have. What? You acknowledge the claim is bad yet you still claim? And General out of all roles? That's the easiest role for scum to claim, it even justifies them surviving each night (because of what I said earlier).
II know I become useless when you guys lynch VE, however lynching into a townie today is game over considering that the mafia out of us two will read himself ouf f the lynch the next day because apparently you guys believe every ridiculous claim there is, no matter how much it is impossible / contradicting itself / unlikeky.
It was something like 3 votes on me an 12 votes on wbg earlier. Clearly is has gotten worse over the course of action simply because of VE's abyssal bad blueclaim.
And no, it's not the easiest role to claim because mafia have to send in kills according to our OP. So basicly tracker on me and I am instantly dead as mafia.
The roles that are the most easy to claim for mafia are DT and watcher because mafia have all the information needed to make those claimes.
I'm posting as I'm catching up
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On April 12 2012 15:45 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 13:02 gonzaw wrote:Toad, why did you claim right now? Dude, the votes are almost equal with you and VE. You don't have an information role with new information to give to town. Another thing: If you live today, and you are really a vet, you become useless! Scum will know you are a vet and will never shoot you. If you didn't claim and VE got lynched, then perhaps scum would shoot you and your role would be useful. Even if you are getting lynched, then claiming your role is useless like I said before, so even then it's better for you not to claim. I know the claim does basicly nothing (like VE's !) but in case people actually want to lynch me I just feel obligated to give out every piece of information I have. What? You acknowledge the claim is bad yet you still claim? And General out of all roles? That's the easiest role for scum to claim, it even justifies them surviving each night (because of what I said earlier). II know I become useless when you guys lynch VE, however lynching into a townie today is game over considering that the mafia out of us two will write himself ouf f the lynch the next day because apparently you guys believe every ridiculous claim there is, no matter how much it is impossible / contradicting itself / unlikeky. It was something like 3 votes on me an 12 votes on VE earlier. Clearly it has gotten worse over the course of action simply because of VE's abyssal bad blueclaim. And no, it's not the easiest role to claim because mafia have to send in kills according to our OP. So basicly tracker on me and I am instantly dead as mafia. The roles that are the most easy to claim for mafia are DT and watcher because mafia have all the information needed to make those claimes. I'm posting as I'm catching up
EBWOP
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wtf. It's 9 am in my place. How am I awake, that's only 6 hours of sleep
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On April 12 2012 15:45 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 13:02 gonzaw wrote:Toad, why did you claim right now? Dude, the votes are almost equal with you and VE. You don't have an information role with new information to give to town. Another thing: If you live today, and you are really a vet, you become useless! Scum will know you are a vet and will never shoot you. If you didn't claim and VE got lynched, then perhaps scum would shoot you and your role would be useful. Even if you are getting lynched, then claiming your role is useless like I said before, so even then it's better for you not to claim. I know the claim does basicly nothing (like VE's !) but in case people actually want to lynch me I just feel obligated to give out every piece of information I have. What? You acknowledge the claim is bad yet you still claim? And General out of all roles? That's the easiest role for scum to claim, it even justifies them surviving each night (because of what I said earlier). II know I become useless when you guys lynch VE, however lynching into a townie today is game over considering that the mafia out of us two will read himself ouf f the lynch the next day because apparently you guys believe every ridiculous claim there is, no matter how much it is impossible / contradicting itself / unlikeky. It was something like 3 votes on me an 12 votes on wbg earlier. Clearly is has gotten worse over the course of action simply because of VE's abyssal bad blueclaim. And no, it's not the easiest role to claim because mafia have to send in kills according to our OP. So basicly tracker on me and I am instantly dead as mafia. The roles that are the most easy to claim for mafia are DT and watcher because mafia have all the information needed to make those claimes. I'm posting as I'm catching up
It doesn't matter what other blue does to you.
If another DT checks you and you are not the GF it's the same thing, he will get a "Guilty" Result whether you claimed DT or Vet and you are dead as mafia.
If a tracker tracks you, he will see you visiting a dead guy whether you claim DT or Vet. Perhaps being DT you can say "Oh I tried to check this guy but he died", but nobody will believe you and you know it, you are still dead mafia.
Also town is not stupid (I would try to guess), if you ever claim DT/Watcher/Tracker in a situation like this, we tell you:
"Don't visit anybody tonight at all; trackers, track Toad"
That way if a tracker sees you visiting someone, you HAVE to be mafia because if you were town you wouldn't be visiting anyone (because of that ultimatum town gave you).
*sigh* I guess you couldn't have thought about this though when you tried to find reasons to claim.
However, if you claim DT, and you are not dead by tomorrow nor RBed, then you'll be instantly lynched (there's no reason for scum not to do something with you if you claim DT as town).
If you claim vet however, you can justify being kept alive because scum will never shoot a claimed vet (unless it's Foolishness/BC/etc who did it, and they double-stack him).
Anyways gonna go to sleep now for sure, let's hope I don't have to read 15 more pages when I woke up.
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On April 12 2012 16:01 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 15:45 Toadesstern wrote:On April 12 2012 13:02 gonzaw wrote:Toad, why did you claim right now? Dude, the votes are almost equal with you and VE. You don't have an information role with new information to give to town. Another thing: If you live today, and you are really a vet, you become useless! Scum will know you are a vet and will never shoot you. If you didn't claim and VE got lynched, then perhaps scum would shoot you and your role would be useful. Even if you are getting lynched, then claiming your role is useless like I said before, so even then it's better for you not to claim. I know the claim does basicly nothing (like VE's !) but in case people actually want to lynch me I just feel obligated to give out every piece of information I have. What? You acknowledge the claim is bad yet you still claim? And General out of all roles? That's the easiest role for scum to claim, it even justifies them surviving each night (because of what I said earlier). II know I become useless when you guys lynch VE, however lynching into a townie today is game over considering that the mafia out of us two will read himself ouf f the lynch the next day because apparently you guys believe every ridiculous claim there is, no matter how much it is impossible / contradicting itself / unlikeky. It was something like 3 votes on me an 12 votes on wbg earlier. Clearly is has gotten worse over the course of action simply because of VE's abyssal bad blueclaim. And no, it's not the easiest role to claim because mafia have to send in kills according to our OP. So basicly tracker on me and I am instantly dead as mafia. The roles that are the most easy to claim for mafia are DT and watcher because mafia have all the information needed to make those claimes. I'm posting as I'm catching up It doesn't matter what other blue does to you. If another DT checks you and you are not the GF it's the same thing, he will get a "Guilty" Result whether you claimed DT or Vet and you are dead as mafia. If a tracker tracks you, he will see you visiting a dead guy whether you claim DT or Vet. Perhaps being DT you can say "Oh I tried to check this guy but he died", but nobody will believe you and you know it, you are still dead mafia. It's not even only about being on the wrong guy, it's about being on someone at all that's enough to get me killed if I am a VET in this situation. If there was someone claiming I visited SOMEONE, not matter who that guy was I'd be dead imo.
You are telling me that after VE contradicted himself about his reasons, put up a nice to conveniently fit his motives and you guys are all buying it switching back to me?
I am sorry, yes I believe that VE saying "sry I was on the dead guy" won't get him killed due to the sheer stupidity of what he posts making townies think he can't be a mafia because according to them it's more likely that town-VE suddenly took a nosedive in his skillset than mafia-VE who JUST, AS PROVEN, SCREWED UPAlso town is not stupid (I would try to guess), if you ever claim DT/Watcher/Tracker in a situation like this, we tell you: "Don't visit anybody tonight at all; trackers, track Toad" Mafia get to decide who does the kill in basicly every game as far as I know. They're simply let someone else do the job and have the guy look like a confirmed townie. That's like the worst thing you could suggest, everThat way if a tracker sees you visiting someone, you HAVE to be mafia because if you were town you wouldn't be visiting anyone (because of that ultimatum town gave you). Remember how I said if I were a VET visiting somene, no matter who that guy were I'd be dead as well? Newsflash: it's exactly the same situation yet you say as a vet you're only dead if visiting someone who got killed but as a tracker you're dead if visiting someone else as well? Why is there a difference?*sigh* I guess you couldn't have thought about this though when you tried to find reasons to claim. However, if you claim DT, and you are not dead by tomorrow nor RBed, then you'll be instantly lynched (there's no reason for scum not to do something with you if you claim DT as town). Exactly and he knows that. Obviously he knows that, his mates however won't shoot him so he will claim RB from now on to the end of the game for an eternity. He knew that before he claimed as wellIf you claim vet however, you can justify being kept alive because scum will never shoot a claimed vet (unless it's Foolishness/BC/etc who did it, and they double-stack him). idk. Killing a confirmed town is pretty nice for mafia. And if VE get's lynched and flips mafia I am looking pretty decent, so they might have to anywaysAnyways gonna go to sleep now for sure, let's hope I don't have to read 15 more pages when I woke up.
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Just got home from work. Long ass night shift.
Caught up just to get a gift of the thread. I'll read more thoroughly tomorrow. Too tired right now to have any really awesome coherent thoughts.
I think Toad should hang.
Night.
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On April 12 2012 13:54 gonzaw wrote:Here's a funny thing I noticed, but it's probably nothing: The dead blue roles, sputnik, Jackal and Midnight had these role names: ST - Baron Vladimir Harkonnen
Jackal - Lord Marcus Aster the fifth, of the noble line of Aster
MG - Alexander ScottThese are VE's and Toad's claims: VE - Charles Williamson
Toad - Robert Boscawen, Viscount of FalmouthNo confirmed blue had any mention about their political role in their role name. Jackal's one says "of the noble line of Aster"; but that's not a political name, it's about his lineage. For istance, michaelthe's one was " Lord Keith , the Earl Marischal", and sloosh's one was " Lady Anabel Grey, the Countess De Grey" (Janaan didn't have one though, he was VT too). They have "Earl" and "Countess", and Toad's one has "Viscount" (also lol sloosh was a lady!) Yet the other 3 dead blues don't have one, and VE's claim doesn't have one either. Is it completely random, or could it be that blue roles don't have political names? (in which case VE most likely says the truth or was lucky with his fake-claim, and Toad is lying and is scum). Also maybe it's fair to assume scum will get fake-claims. I wonder what VE's role flavour is though. Anyways ET, could you respond to what I posted earlier perhaps? I need to clear my mind regarding this subject, it's fucking drilling my head 
It probably has something to do with me being a General? You know, because it IS something political.
I mean I am from Germany, I had to read your post like 3 times because I didn't understand what it's about. I think I now did but I don't even know what a Viscount or something like that means lol.
dict.cc says it is viscount in german as well but I never heard of that word before. Never, ever.
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On April 12 2012 15:32 Risen wrote:
I'm running into a problem. I'm seeing more scum than there are town.
I am seeing more bad players than I am seeing scum. In fact I am sort of siding with you in your "screw it we are doomed no matter what". Because to me it is fairly easy either I am right about VE, and then the majority of players saying VE is town bad (not all, some on the other side I think are playing a decent/good game regardless of VE's flip). Or I am wrong and then I suck, and don't have a clue and are truly lost at this game. If scenario a is right I will have to resist the urge to gloat and rub it in everyones face, if scenario b I will have to resist the urge to just go überlurkmode for the rest of the game...
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Blazinghand
United States25558 Posts
Or you could man up and just play like a normal person rofl
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On April 12 2012 17:40 Blazinghand wrote:
Or you could man up and just play like a normal person rofl
Who me?
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EPT
