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On April 03 2012 14:24 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +syllo chose to immediately believe risk.nuke's claim, but he didn't consider that Cephiro could be scum. Which is demonstrably false and you know who I would have killed yesterday considering I used both of my actions. Why are you asking superfluous questions?
Of course you immediately believed risk's claim. You called Cephiro town very quickly:
On April 03 2012 04:30 syllogism wrote:
You misinterpreted the description, but in a manner that makes you look towny, so that leaves Sbrubbles
##pull Sbrubbles
and then chose to pull Sbrubbles without further ado. You didn't even mention risk's roleclaim.
The fact of the matter is that I find neither of them looks like scum. You look far more scummy than either of them.
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in addition, you haven't explained why you were against random/free for all PoPing but you were the only one who decided to push BM. Indeed, you didn't even bother convincing anyone to push BM and were generally apathetic all day to town affairs.
Why is it that you were against random/free for all PoPing early in the day, but chose to push someone who clearly was not supported by anyone else as a target (BM)?
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I'm not misinterpreting anything you said. You didn't really consider at all that Cephiro could be scum; you took one thing he said and claimed it made him look town, and based on that one piece of evidence decided that Sbrabbles was the scum. From your perspective I think it would have taken a little bit more work than that to determine which player to pull. Indeed, you didn't justify your pull on Sbrabbles beyond that. It seemed like you didn't think about it very much, which is rather odd since PoPs are final.
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On April 03 2012 14:58 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 14:55 wherebugsgo wrote:
in addition, you haven't explained why you were against random/free for all PoPing but you were the only one who decided to push BM. Indeed, you didn't even bother convincing anyone to push BM and were generally apathetic all day to town affairs.
Why is it that you were against random/free for all PoPing early in the day, but chose to push someone who clearly was not supported by anyone else as a target (BM)? Because I had only little time and no one was actually willing to discuss who they would be willing to push? Only VE answered my inquiries, while the others were just talking about irrelevant things. As I pointed out very early, the "lynch" deadline is about 7+ hours too late for me.
you certainly didn't seem to want to put any effort in trying to discuss those subjects.
Indeed your justification for BM's roleclaim being weak was refuted by VE himself, if I remember correctly.
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On April 03 2012 15:49 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 15:03 wherebugsgo wrote:On April 03 2012 14:58 syllogism wrote:On April 03 2012 14:55 wherebugsgo wrote:
in addition, you haven't explained why you were against random/free for all PoPing but you were the only one who decided to push BM. Indeed, you didn't even bother convincing anyone to push BM and were generally apathetic all day to town affairs.
Why is it that you were against random/free for all PoPing early in the day, but chose to push someone who clearly was not supported by anyone else as a target (BM)? Because I had only little time and no one was actually willing to discuss who they would be willing to push? Only VE answered my inquiries, while the others were just talking about irrelevant things. As I pointed out very early, the "lynch" deadline is about 7+ hours too late for me. you certainly didn't seem to want to put any effort in trying to discuss those subjects. Indeed your justification for BM's roleclaim being weak was refuted by VE himself, if I remember correctly. And no, it wasn't refuted by VE; in fact, I convinced him. It can not be "refuted" by anyone other than Ace and it's quite suspicious that few people are agreeing with me given that the logic behind my skepticism is sound. Now that I think about it, BM said he latched on to VE, so it's possible that he is responsible for getting VE killed.
You know what: you're right. I didn't like the manner in which BM roleclaimed, and it's why I said we should ignore him. Perhaps I'm looking too much into you saying that we should be wary of free-for-all PoPing and perhaps I'm wrong about why you thought Cephiro was town as well. In retrospect I seem to recall that you have called people town for similar reasons before. I disagree that BM's roleclaim is implausible but I don't disagree that he could be scum. What Acrofales just said reminded me of that; it is very much a roleclaim that any scum could make (and so no, Acro, VE flipping town tells us nothing about BM's alignment because scum already know everyone's alignment)
This perhaps does mean Sbrabbles is scum (or risk.nuke; I can't see Cephiro being scum). I suppose we'll see tomorrow.
What do you think of prplhz? Of Palmar?
Speaking of Palmar, you around Palmar? What are your thoughts on the game and why have you not done anything useful? You pride yourself on your day 1 reads and yet your game presence is completely lacking.
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On April 03 2012 15:47 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 15:01 wherebugsgo wrote:
I'm not misinterpreting anything you said. You didn't really consider at all that Cephiro could be scum; you took one thing he said and claimed it made him look town, and based on that one piece of evidence decided that Sbrabbles was the scum. From your perspective I think it would have taken a little bit more work than that to determine which player to pull. Indeed, you didn't justify your pull on Sbrabbles beyond that. It seemed like you didn't think about it very much, which is rather odd since PoPs are final. Are you scum wbg? Why do you attempt to know what thought process went into my decision? Why don't you find it odd that many people used/wasted their PoPs very early and attempt to make it look like me using my own PoPs at pretty much the last possible moment, given my local time, is suspicious? I made the reasonable assumption that risk is indeed the dt role he claims to be, as it's a very risky fake claim to do on day 1, especially with the possibility of the "real one" being out there. That left me with two targets for my pull and out of those sbrabbles was the obvious choice given that some of the things cephiro had posted looked town to me.
The idea that plenty of people used their PoPs early just to make you look bad is incredibly far-fetched. Either that or your phrasing here means something else (explain?)
What I was hung up on was why you accepted risk's roleclaim and how little time you spent in calling Cephiro town. On the other hand, you outright rejected BM's roleclaim, though for different reasons than I expected.
I would have done the same, but your reasoning did not make sense to me and that's what made me think you were scum.
To me, BM's roleclaim is less believable than risk's not because of balance concerns but because any mafia can call out two random players and call them both town. Risk's claim included at least one scum among 3, which is potentially verifiable. You chose to focus on the balance aspect, which if you think about it, make risk's and BM's roleclaims identical.
As for the speculation of how VE died, now you become suspicious again. Why assume it was BM who killed VE? Was there a role in the previous game that functioned that way? (if so, please say so) My first thought was that scum had a hidden push power. You seem to have jumped to a more complex conclusion than that.
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Syllo, how many town reads do you have right now?
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prpl you claimed Tobon looked bad but never actually furthered your argument on him. Care to explain why?
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I currently have 0 qualms about killing Tobon.
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No thanks, I don't explain stuff to scum. Especially not at night.
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Who says I won't be explaining it later? There's still plenty of time left in this night.
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Why 20 minutes, layabout?
I explain at the deadline.
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On April 04 2012 06:48 layabout wrote:
Bugs give me all you got within the next 20 minutes!
Find the Mafia:
cephiro
syllo
sbrub
God damn, I just lost everything I was typing.
Long story short:
Syllo I think is most likely to be scum out of the three because he has avoided taking concrete positions and defending them. His push was very weak on BM (he wanted to see if there was approval, and I found that odd). Syllo doesn't look for approval when he searches for scum; he finds them and then asserts his opinion strongly. At no point did I actually think syllo truly believed that either BM or I were scum yesterday. Contrast his day 1 here to Storm and you'll see what I'm talking about.
In addition, he was fixated on the plausibility of BM's claim rather than whether or not it actually made him scum. If you apply even an ounce of critical thinking to the idea that BM's roleclaim is implausible because it could potentially confirm 5 townies, you run into the same problem with risk's roleclaim. So why then did syllo never question risk's roleclaim? Imagine risk activating his ability with one person on his slot and two both above and below, with the result being no scum there. Isn't that the same plausibility problem syllo brought up with risk.nuke's roleclaim?
Cephiro: I don't find him to be scummy at all. I found that he has reached many of the same conclusions I have, and for different and equally valid reasons as well. This is a good sign as a townie. He has also put in plenty of effort in trying to find scum, and has been very transparent throughout.
Sbrubbles: He is partly the reason I am unsure about syllo. Syllo pulled him after deeming Cephiro to be town, and if syllo is actually town then Sbrubbles is definitely the scum among the 3. However, based on what little he has posted, I can't fault him. His points were mostly valid (although the argument "we should kill syllo even if he is null" is rather odd, I didn't follow the logic) and the only reason people have called him scum is for his relative inactivity.
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*with BM's roleclaim
Apologies, on my phone and it took forever to type that all twice
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son of a fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
let's kill Tobon and Bluelightz. I'm up for impulse pushing/pulling both of them rofl.
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oh sbrabbles died too? The hell?
Alright so we need to consider Cephiro and syllo as well.
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let's push Tobon and pull syllo lol
Cephiro why do you want the item?
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On April 04 2012 13:39 Snarfs wrote:
Why would scum kill Sbrubbles unless they want syllo to die? It doesn't make sense....
Scum couldn't have killed Sbrubbles, I don't think, unless they had a KP role. Scum KP is listed at 1.
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On April 04 2012 13:57 Cephiro wrote:
Nemesis, Snarfs, Tobon, wbg, I would already have 5 pushes if you all pushed me towards the lethal zone. Taking into account that stacks are likely, and that the flamethrower is probably bigger, I am fairly sure I should be able to at least get very close to the item if not reach it if you all pushed me.
What I'm wondering right now is whether it's better to trust you and push you toward the item or push someone I think is scum.
First of all, you aren't confirmed town until you die. (if syllo flips scum it's actually still remotely possible you're scum as well, though I find that extraordinarily unlikely). As syllo hasn't flipped yet, what I'd rather do is kill syllo first, then determine whether or not you're trustworthy.
Problem with this?
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Cephiro, if you provide full disclosure of your role and what you plan to do, and it seems plausible, I will probably push you toward the item. I'm not comfortable with not knowing what you're actually going to do; in this situation today I'd much rather kill you both than kill one and push the other toward the item.
The problem with that, of course, is that if risk fake claimed we're killing two townies.
Syllo, if you are actually town, you need to provide us with some reads. Ignore Cephiro, since you know we can kill more than one person today.
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EPT
