EPT/in
Do the US and USSR have to fight each other at some point?
If the NUKE targets a citizen, is it counted as used?
The Sum of All Fears Mafia
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
/in Do the US and USSR have to fight each other at some point? If the NUKE targets a citizen, is it counted as used? | ||
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gonzaw
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gonzaw
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So if for instance there are 6 players alive, 5 US citizens and 1 Nazi, the Nazi can still win the next day if he survives? Also I think they have a normal win con too, right? | ||
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gonzaw
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Wait, how come Nazis have nukes but the US don't have any? >_> | ||
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gonzaw
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Let's hunt some nazis. On March 27 2012 10:14 EchelonTee wrote: honestly I am treating this game like a standard Mini Mafia, with the knowledge that there is probably a few doods with nukes or powers revolving around nukes. AKA, re-skinned medics/vigs. and if there's anything I learned from minis, it's that there's always scum hiding in the lurkers. In general I'll always argue against policy lynches (because they're bad) but in a Mini, with so few people town simply cannot afford to have non-contributors whose alignment cannot be determined. People lurking scummily (yeah there's a difference between innocent lurking and scummily lurking) should be axed over someone with only a weak case on them. gonzaw! shouldn't you be spamming the thread by now? I doubt I need to ask 100 questions to everybody, considering this is a smaller game, so don't worry about that too much. I'll try not to "hurt your eyes" this time I think it's obvious that nobody likes lurkers, but lurking alone doesn't mean they should be lynched immediately. It just means you need to call them out, make them contribute, and put them under more scrutiny than other players, since they can easily fly unnoticed. @VE: I have to agree with johnny here, why do you prod someone about taking stances 1 post into the game? Even as pressure that doesn't seem very helpful. Also, I'd recomend nobody even slightly hint what nationality they are from. As far as I know, town don't get ANY information whatsoever if someone is US or SU, but scum can use that info to try and get their alternative win-con. So no nationality claims, nor any hint to them. If you have to claim just claim your role and nothing else. | ||
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gonzaw
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On March 27 2012 11:38 VisceraEyes wrote: I'll prod whomever I want whenever I want for whatever reason whether you think it's helpful for you or not gonzaw. Now, let's talk about this generic/obvious advice you gave. I know why you did it (glare @ C_C) but the part that concerns me is bolded in your quote. As a member of town, I happen to know for a FACT that I don't know what "nationality" people are. So that begs the question...why preface your "advice" with the statement "As far as I know..."? It seems to me like you're trying too hard to appear clueless. There may be a hidden town role out there that functions depending if its target is US or SU, or depending on how many there are of each. Maybe there's a mason that can only recruit US players. Maybe there's a medic that can only save SU ones. How would I know if I wasn't one of these roles myself? The point is that I doubt there may be a role like that out there, and if there is it won't do us much good, at least to counteract the advantages scum get by nationality-claiming. | ||
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gonzaw
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I don't know what that initial stupid outburst from yours was about, but it produced some reactions and that's fine, but you need to stop these emotional outbursts of yours since they don't help anyone. If you are scum it's also easy to fake them to instill chaos, so stop. I think I said this in Aperture Mafia as well. I see nothing wrong with johnys posts or his "case" against you, you acted very odd and there's nothing wrong in him calling you out. The subsequent bickering between you two was kind of useless and only cluttered things up. You can't infer johnys alignment from that bickering, you need to let him make other reads, contribute about other topics, and see what he does and how he does it. Continuing an argument based on some pointless thing will make it impossible for anyone to do so. However BH, you were going against Nemensis (for some stupid reason like him waking up to post or something), and then you completely ignored him. Why's that? Do you still think Nemensis is scum for those reasons or were they part of your "show" to "pressure" and shit? I find you are acting like in Aperture, being so confident and aggressive; which makes me think you are likely town. However I haven't seen you be scum (in a non-Resistance game), and you pushing that attitude of yours worries me. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- @VE: So, did that "prodding" of yours help at all or something? You "proded" several people based on some pointless stuff, but you never dwelled back on it again IIRC @Echelon: What's with your weird wording? Saying things like "hip hip hurrah!" or "you are crAAAzy" and that weird attitude of yours? I don't remember you ever playing like that, seems you may be trolling or something. @Bluelightz: You say ET is town and pressed people to post, do you have anything to back that up? Although I see you are posting lists now though P.S: There, I used the "-----" line breaks you guys always love >_> | ||
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gonzaw
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On March 27 2012 23:38 VisceraEyes wrote: The important thing to note is that in his first post, he was sure to give the useless/obvious advice of "don't claim your nationality" but didn't seem interested in the fact that C_C already had. It seems to me that if I had an idea about something that's anti-town to do (claiming nationality) and someone has done this thing in thread (C_C) I'd be interested in hearing his reasons for doing so. He doesn't. Like he didn't even read it or something, when it's a big fat graphic in C_C's (only) post. I don't like the smell of it. It smells like....SCUM Ehmm, did it occur to you that I posted that advice SPECIFICALLY because Cyber_Cheese had hinted at his nationality? Of course I noticed it, which is why I gave the advice. I think that was pretty apparent. If it was an "useless" and "obvious" advice, then I guess C_C didn't get the memo about it. On March 27 2012 23:22 VisceraEyes wrote: I've found the responses to my prods exceedingly helpful in my personal hunt for scum. I've placed a vote on who I think is scum the most so far, and you've failed to comment on or even acknowledge that fact. Please do so. Go look at C_C and tell me what you think before you ask me useless questions again. C_C hasn't posted anything of value yet, or basicly didn't post at all since some hours after the game started. You don't find scum by the 1st posts that only dwell on policy lynches, debate about lurkers, about general town strategy, etc. Anybody can post any opinion about those subjects, both scum and town, so it's entirely useless to use them as an indicator of alignment. I'll wait for him to come and post his thoughts, voting for him now is kind of pointless to be honest. If he goes AWOL and lurking like in Aperture though, I wouldn't mind killing him. @people that have a problem with my spacing: I use spacing to separate different ideas. Instead of making 4-5 posts, I use large spaces to denote the same feeling. The more spaces between 2 sentences, the more apart they are in terms of content. That way you don't see a single huge paragraph that dwells with 4-5 different points. I'll try to us the "----" thing though. On March 27 2012 22:55 Bluelightz wrote: @gonzaw about ET some example of well, not "pressing" but pushing for more people to post There, ET pushes Sinensis to post more of his thoughts. This is one of the reasons why I think he's town. So that makes him absolute town in your eyes? lol this seems exactly like that thing you did to Wiggles on Aperture Mafia. You said you thought he was town because of a seemingly useless question, and now you think ET is town because of a seemingly useless pressure (which I don't think he actually pushed since then). Apart from that "pressure", what makes you think ET is town? What do you think about his wording and style of posting? On March 27 2012 23:30 Bluelightz wrote: I don't like his posts, his first post has lots of fluff( I might say but I'm not so sure on this one). his second is setup speculation, it takes TWO posts to get his point out and clear >_>?, wait a sec on his 3rd post still thinking about On March 27 2012 23:34 Bluelightz wrote: On his 4rd post, gonzaw was trying to get his points across to BH, and some questions, I dont feel this post is scummy. On March 27 2012 23:40 Bluelightz wrote: ...... Agreed lol, If you want to push a lynch on him im fine with it too. So VE's single point convinced you I am scum as well? On March 27 2012 23:51 zelblade wrote: I dont like gonzaw either. His activity is a pretty huge drop from a certain game, and his posts havent really done much in the way of scumhunting, besides generic advice. I also dont like how he dodges the C_C matter completely, and your point is the nail in the coffin. If C_C does indeed flip scum I say theres a huge chance gonzaw is scum too. I played D1 and N1 from Aperture mafia on a weekend I have uni/gym/etc on weekdays, so don't expect me to be the behemoth spammer this game. Also, why would you say this?: If C_C does indeed flip scum I say theres a huge chance gonzaw is scum too. If C_C were to be your scumbuddy for instance, you could get me lynched. Since I flip town, then you can use a reverse inference to determine that C_C is town as well. C_C flipping green or red doesn't say anything about me. On March 28 2012 00:31 MrZentor wrote:He then posts a really suspicious post that goes along these lines. There might be a non mafia role that depends on the target player's nationality. HOW WOULD I KNOW I'M NOT MAFIA I'M A NORMAL TOWNIE STOP LOOKING AT ME I doubt there is such a thing out there, and even if it exists, it doesn't change anything, so I just wasted a bunch of time talking about it. Yes it does. If there was a medic that saved only SU players, then perhaps he would take the chance to save C_C at night (if C_C were actually SU). If not the would only take a shot in the dark. Also I didn't "waste time" talking about it, I pointed it out because VE thought it was such a huge deal. Hey MrZentor, what do you think about Bluelightz? Other people's opinion on him are welcomed too. | ||
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gonzaw
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On March 28 2012 01:17 VisceraEyes wrote: The italicized I disagree with. Here's why. Think about why he's posting it. I'll post it here for convenience. Look at the size of this post sir. Take a good look at it. Now see if you can tell me after reading it again who gonzaw thinks is scum. + Show Spoiler [My Guess] + You can't If you can, it's because you're assuming something based on what he says, but he never actually says that he thinks anyone is scum. Is he suspicious of me? His post seems to be mildly discrediting me (unclear of the point of my posts, asking if it has helped though not apparently interested in the results, negative language like "pointless" and "dwelled"). Not to mention the fact that it's clear that he's not even reading the thread fully, which I'm assuming because he commented @me but didn't comment on my largest contribution OR my vote so far. He's dancing around issues that should matter to actual townies, while spreading doubt simultaneously (read: BH, VE, Blue, ET). This is the most suspicious post he's made so far MrZentor. What do you think about that? I'm trying to figure out if you are doing this on purpose or not. I think some people said you acted like this in C9++ too, but really, this is very bad. Yes, I didn't say who I thought was scum at that moment, because I didn't think anyone was scum at that point. This is Day 1, and only 10 or so hours had passed since the day started. I needed more info to make up my mind, and I thought ET and Blue's behaviour was suspicious so I asked them some questions (I'd like ET to respond as soon as he can as well). Do you seriously think I'm scum because I didn't think anyone was scum at that point? That's a very shitty reasoning. Does this mean that because you FOSed someone 1 hour into the game this makes you confirmed town or something? And no, I'm not spreading doubt, I'm asking people for responses which I'm awaiting. If you were any other player, you would be suspicious as fuck; but I know that you have this weird playstyle as town just like BH. You are being very active and pushing people, even though you don't make much sense with some issues. You made some sense regarding the BH vs jhonny issue, which is why at the moment I think you are just rushing things through and making bad cases. And what do you mean by this?: He's dancing around issues that should matter to actual townies I don't think I "danced around" anything. @Zentor: So you said my post wasn't that suspicious, and now you say it was more suspicious than you thought. Again, did you suddenly change your mind just because of VE's post? Could you stop sheeping and tell us exactly what you think about that post I made? I also want your thoughts on Bluelightz. @sloosh: Good that you are here. Would you mind posting your thoughts on this issue about me? Do you think I'm scum or not? | ||
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gonzaw
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Before this turns into a huge misunderstanding, now that I read it again you didn't FOS anyone at the beginning of Day 1, but you started the whole pushing thing with johnyy | ||
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gonzaw
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Either way I'll answer it nevertheless. I'm waiting for the responses for Blue and Zentor. If none of them respond, or respond very badly, I'd want them lynched, but I'm waiting for both to respond first. If C_C doesn't come here and post his thoughts before the day ends, then he's not a bad lynch either. I'm having some doubts about other players, and I'd want their responses before posting my thoughts on them. PRE-EDIT: @Zentor: No you didn't. Here is the only part where you referenced it: His last post doesn't seem nearly as suspicious as his first two. You never said why it wasn't as suspicious as the other ones, even though you think I'm scum. And now you don't say why now suddenly you think it's suspicious as well, other than saying "I agree with VE". One more thing, before you said this about VE: VE seems to be promoting a good townie environment and being a lot calmer than BH. I am most afraid of him being scum, because if he were, I would never know. Which means you have doubts about his alignment. However, you now decide to take everything he says as true without hesitation, which is the opposite of being "afraid" of him What exactly about Blue's behaviour is pro-town to you? PRE-EDIT2: On March 28 2012 02:33 VisceraEyes wrote: gonzaw, I need you to tell me what you think of Cyber_Cheese, and what do you think of my vote of him? Do I have to repeat myself? Reread my posts if you want to see my stance on him and your vote on him. As far as I can tell, you think that "there's too little information". So to get a pass from you, scum need only not post/post policy discussion exclusively D1? When did I imply anything like that? I always have said since the beginning of dawn in TL that discussion about lurkers, policy lynch, etc is useless to determine someone's alignment. In my games I just post 1 paragraph about it to get it over with and deal with other stuff. Why would you even say something like that if it is obvious I never said nor implied something similar? You said you're "willing to vote him" if he doesn't step up, why not vote him now? You know, in case you can't make it back for lynch or whatever. If he's suspicious enough to vote to lynch then, he's suspicious enough to vote now I'd be willing to vote for him if he lurks througout the whole day, and doesn't post anything or posts anything of no value. Basicly, I'll vote for him if his future behaviour is scummy. I don't find him any more suspicious than say ccalf/Sinensis/players that haven't posted too much since. ...but you're unwilling to even SAY ANYONE IS SUSPICIOUS. A lot has happened in this thread and you should have a firm opinion of at least someone, I don't care who you are. So far everyone (who has posted) has at least a tertiary scum read and has shared it with the thread - you're being overly diplomatic and defensive. Do I need to tell you everything? I thought you were smarter than that. I thought it was obvious that the players I'm pressuring, and asking everybody questions about them are the ones I'm suspicious of. What, do you want me to make a list about who's "suspicious" and who isn't or something? Finding scum isn't a priority for you. Prove me wrong. Vote C_C. I won't do what you want. I want responses, and when I get them I'll assess who is most likely scum and vote for him. I won't try to "prove you wrong" by sheeping you. If my defense so far isn't good enough for you, well, tough luck, I hope other players think otherwise. Anyways VE, what do you think about Blue and Zentor? | ||
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gonzaw
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On March 28 2012 02:59 VisceraEyes wrote: gonzaw, you're using scum defense. You're trying to discredit peoples' reads of you by discrediting me. If they agree that you're suspicious, it's because you're acting suspiciously. Stop trying to blame everything on other people. Townies vote. Townies try and find scum. You're trying to slither out of the spotlight. Just tell us who your teammates are and we'll kill you last. I've only seen your "case", and some points Zentor made. Everybody else is just sheeping you right now. You point a post of mine and say "This is suspicious guys, can't you see it?" and zelblade/Zentor/etc just go "Yep, now that you mention it it's suspicious". Basicly they only agree with your case and don't really present any of them own (except Zentor at times). Defending myself against your case is the only thing to do, so if that's your definition of "discreting you" then well, yeah I'm discrediting you, but I'm just discrediting your bad case against me. On March 28 2012 03:23 MrZentor wrote: You only asked what I thought of it, not why I thought what I thought of it. Are you kidding me? I think it's suspicious for the reasons VE has stated. It wasn't as suspicious as the second one I cited, because in that one it seems like you're scared of us thinking you're mafia. It's suspicious that everybody in this thread has ideas on who is scum, except for you. Actually, I analyze everything VE says, and, so far, I've agreed with *almost* everything he has said. So why did you say you were "afraid" of him (VE)? Okay, I don't want to clog this too much up, but can someone explain this to me please?: It's suspicious that everybody in this thread has ideas on who is scum, except for you. 1-What makes you think I don't have ideas on who is scum? I already stated this several times. 2-At the time I made the posts you guys mention, why was it suspicious for me not to be 100% sure someone was scum? Gonzaw, why was your spacing so strange on your first post? @people that have a problem with my spacing: I use spacing to separate different ideas. Instead of making 4-5 posts, I use large spaces to denote the same feeling. The more spaces between 2 sentences, the more apart they are in terms of content. That way you don't see a single huge paragraph that dwells with 4-5 different points. I dunno, it's the way I post. After Aperture I'm trying to improve it as I can. On March 28 2012 06:31 EchelonTee wrote: what does "being a new Jackal" mean in context of froggy's posting? oh and ur doing that thing where u call everyone townie. would be more helpful if you focused on your scum reads tyvm ^^ response to ppls about my posting: 1. after I tanked hard in my last town game trying to play "serious aggresive asshole town leader", i'm looking for a new, hopefully less fail-whale town playstyle and you guys are the lucky testing grounds. problem? I'm being way more clear with my "weird wording" than you and you big posts. So you are jumping on this bandwagon as well, huh? What do you mean by the bolded part then? You think I'm scum? Why not say it outright if you do? If so, what else makes you think I'm scum? You never mentioned me other than saying you wanted my lynch as well. On March 28 2012 06:53 slOosh wrote: As for C_C, still waiting for him to post something. I've looked at gonzaw and I do agree with this post from VE,. (From what I understand) He thinks Bluelightz is scum but he hasn't actually posted a case on him. Gonzaw could you just post the case on him instead of asking people to look at him? So, you "agree" with a post VE made. ...so? Do you think I'm scum? Or not? I'm getting tired of people just quoting VE and saying "I agree" and nothing else. If you ever find someone suspicious, state your own reasons for thinking so, or at least some thoughts of your own. Don't just COMPLETELY sheep someone else. @C_C: You are being very useless right now. I'm actually considering lynching you as well. Do you have anything to say about anything? You posted a case on Bluelightz, but even though I agree about him it wasn't even a good one. You say sloosh and me are scum, and provide 0 reasoning. You say jhonny is scum just for defending you there. So, is that why I'm scum as well? Because I "defended" you at one point? Okay Bluelightz, I was hoping that if you were town you would respond to my posts and try to be as helpful as possible. I found your reaction to be the worst one possible. You are playing just like Aperture Mafia. Post oneliners, appear "confused", post smileys, etc. You were sheeping VE's read on me too: On March 27 2012 23:30 Bluelightz wrote: I don't like his posts, his first post has lots of fluff( I might say but I'm not so sure on this one). his second is setup speculation, it takes TWO posts to get his point out and clear >_>?, wait a sec on his 3rd post still thinking about On March 27 2012 23:34 Bluelightz wrote: On his 4rd post, gonzaw was trying to get his points across to BH, and some questions, I dont feel this post is scummy. On March 27 2012 23:40 Bluelightz wrote: ...... Agreed lol, If you want to push a lynch on him im fine with it too. So at first you just don't "like" my posts, but you even found one of them wasn't scummy, then suddenly VE posts his bad case about how I'm scum because I "forgot" about C_C, and you suddenly agree with him? Also, you totally ignored my post as well. I asked for your response, and you completely ignored it, just like you ignored my case on you in Aperture Mafia. Really, I find your play here almost exactly the same as in Aperture, you lack confidence (wtf was that ET vote and unvote thing?), appear as a "confused newbie", and contribute almost nothing at all. ##Vote: Bluelightz | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
BH, I quite like this new style of yours, at least it's better than the one you started with in this game. What do you think about Blue BH? And what do you think about me? We have 24 more hours (or so) to lynch, we have time to look at new possibilities and lynch someone else. I want to lynch Blue, he's the most confident read I have at the moment. @ccalf & froggy: You guys almost haven't posted at all. Inactivity is what kills Minigames, at least most of the ones I played/observed. I'm waiting on you guys' thoughts. | ||
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gonzaw
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On March 28 2012 20:16 zelblade wrote: To whoever poked me about the my view of "If C_C flips scum im quite sure gonzaw is his scumbuddie" or something along those lines, I'll explain it here. Gonzaw says that he posted regarding not claiming nationality stuff only because c_c soft claimed his nationality. But if you look at this post below... + Show Spoiler + Also, I'd recomend nobody even slightly hint what nationality they are from. As far as I know, town don't get ANY information whatsoever if someone is US or SU, but scum can use that info to try and get their alternative win-con. So no nationality claims, nor any hint to them. If you have to claim just claim your role and nothing else. I cut out the irrelevant stuff but nothing relevant has been excluded. Here you will see him saying "Alright guys no nationality claims", and he claims he did it in response to C_C's actions. But why didnt he call him out on it? I dont know but if I thought something was suspicious/bad I would actually quote it, or at the very least point it out and question why he did it. Instead gonzaw doesnt even mention that C_C did something like that - he conveniently skipped that part. As can be seen he conveniently skips out on C_C's supicious post. Why? I believe that C_C is scum, and gonzaw is his scumbuddy. Which is why I said that. I also believe that if C_C somehow flips town (im highly doubting it considering how little he is caring at this point), gonzaw would seem to be a little more townie. Scum love to cherry-pick stuff, and the fact that he didnt actually do that whilst calling C_C out shows that he could be town assuming C_C is town. Actually this is pretty weak considering that its based off a couple of posts, but this is what I feel of the situation at hand. Im also still most comfortable with a c_c lynch since he has essentially given up. Does he do this as town? Because him hinting at his nationality isn't a scum trait...? Okay people, I'll be as clear as I can with this so we don't get any more misinterpretations: I saw C_C softclaiming SU. That alone, for me isn't a tell of nothing. Could be scum confusing town or fishing for nationalities, could be SU getting too excited and breadcrumbing his nationality, could be US trying to confuse scum. If it was the 2nd one however, it would be very bad, and I posted the advice so everybody else knew not to do it again. His flag post isn't something I "called him out", because: 1)I didn't find it suspicious 2)He already did it, meaning he already softclaimed, so my advice wouldn't do shit to him. I hope this clears this misunderstanding. On March 28 2012 14:02 Bluelightz wrote: Hi guys back after eating lunch ^_^ on gonzaw's case, wtf? I didn't sheep, That was my own opinion on your post after reading your filter. Ehmm yes you did. You said and I quote: "Agreed lol, If you want to push a lynch on him im fine with it too". The only time you hinted I was suspicious was just the "I don't like his posts". That was a very subtle suspicion, but you never called me scum. After VE made his post, which rested on the whole "I didn't call C_C out for his flag" (which is a very weak point), you instantly agree with him, not commenting on said post at all, and want me lynched all of a sudden. I'd call that sheepiing. How does ONE seemingly good post deters my overall read of you of being scummy? You just said you didn't like my posts, but then you say one of them was not suspicious. So, if you liking and analysing each specific post of mine is what made you suspicious of me, then yes, you thinking 1 post of mine is "fine" crumbles your whole case on me. What the hell with "confused newbie"? I have played lots of games(lolz) and I have contributed, stayed active, and helped the discussion That's the point, you played so many games, yet in Aperture and in this game you act like a "confused newbie". Obviously you are not a newbie, so either you are doing this on purpose or you are scum and this is your scumplay. I believe the 2nd one is the case Some more reads, I think that Nemesis is town, he has been following discussion, not lurking, has provided reason for his vote on Cyber_Cheese. Why did you put a town read like this out of the blue (pun intended)? What was the purpose of this? @Everyone: This is one of those times where I agree with C_C. Doesn't it seem suspicious that nobody is suspicious of Blue and they defend him? A LOT of people are resisting the Blue lynch, don't you think that if he was townie some scum would jump on his bandwagon? So people, please consider this and take a better look at Blue, we have time to get him lynched instead of C_C. @froggy: Good that you are contributing again. What do you think about VE's case against me? What do you think about my case against Blue? P.S: I'd like the people who I responded to to respond back, for instance sloosh/C_C/etc | ||
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gonzaw
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On March 29 2012 01:00 zelblade wrote: @Gonzaw. No. Thats not what I mean. You find something bad, and you want it to stop. What I find wierd is that you dont even mention C_C when stating that line, and it seemed to basically be generic advice. IF cc's flag motivated you to do that post, wouldnt you at the very least point it out? I find it supicious that despite you finding his flag bad for town and felt troubled enough to make a paragraph on why its bad, wouldnt you quote it or say something along the lines of "Dont do what c_c did?", or at the very least question his motivations for his soft-claim (which is personally what I would do if I think something is a bad play, or is scummy as hell)? I fail to see how it's suspicious. Did I just have to say "C_C be bad" or some shit to magically make it a good post in your eyes? Bullshit. I already said why I didn't specifically point C_C out, because he had already done it and it wouldn't have done much good to tell him to stop or something (because he already did it). That's not how you hunt scum, you don't hunt scum because of wording (which should have been pretty apparent anyways). On March 29 2012 01:02 zelblade wrote: And if youre town go skim a few of bluelightz's town games. Purgatory and Wiggles mini mafia II for instance. No, if you are town go and skim Purgatory and Aperture. | ||
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gonzaw
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On March 29 2012 02:18 froggynoddy wrote: @gonzaw Re your case against blue: he's sheeping... that seems to be basically all you are saying. Day 1 has so little info to work with that it's normal to agree what's been said before. That said in Werewolves II he was much more aggressive early game. But I don't like relying on meta as am such a new player... seems a flimsy way of going about hunting scum. He is sheeping indeed, but a lot of other players did it as well (Zentor, zelblade, etc). I'm talking about his behaviour. His behaviour is not like Purgatory at all, not even like Normal Mini Mafia I (the most recent game he was town I think, or at least that I remember). His play and behaviour is just like Aperture mafia, and I already explained why. This is what made me think he was scum in Aperture, and is what makes me think he's scum now. I wasn't wrong then, I am not wrong now. I think my reasoning is as follows, C_C's flip will, at this point in time give us the most information: 1. he flips scum --> gonzaw's likelihood of being scum increases 2. he flips town --> VE and Blue likelihood of being scum increases I don't like this type of reasoning at all. Zelblade mentioned it as well. If C_C flipped scum, what would it tell you about me? If I'm town I don't know shit about C_C's alignment, so C_C can flip town or scum and it will still mean I'm town. So if C_C were to flip scum, why would that mean I'm not town as well? And if C_C flips town? Does that mean I'm not scum either? This type of reasoning is what justifies senseless bandwagons on townies and clouds everybody's judgement. If you are trying to find connections between players then fine, but the most important thing is to pinpoint individuals as scum, and after other players flip determine his interactions with them, not before. Anyways, this is pointless, I can't believe everybody is just assuming Bluelightz is town with almost no reason at all. Killing C_C isn't bad either, once he was called out he hasn't contributed anything at all, and when he did he did so poorly. I don't think he's town so I'm willing to lynch him to avoid NL. I'm going to uni in a few minutes, and won't be back until a few hours after the lynch, so I'll change my vote now. Still people, I'm not convinced by you guy's defense on Blue, I suggest you check him out again. I still want responses from ET/sloosh/Zentor/BH/etc. ##Unvote: Bluelightz ##Vote: Cyber_Cheese | ||
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gonzaw
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@ET: Please respond to my previous post here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686¤tpage=21#407 Also, what do you think about Blue ET? | ||
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gonzaw
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VE, will you stop being a bully and start making some sense? Your "Prove yourself town to me and vote C_C" shit was retarded and you should have known it. On March 29 2012 06:58 EchelonTee wrote: RE: gonzaw's inquiries That comment was a jab at your overall playing style; i've already said that i don't like your super large posts but that's irrelevant to alignment. do i think you're a scummy scum from scumville? no. do I think you're suspicious? yep, mostly for your tone and the subjects you are choosing to talk about. am I going to put up a case on you right now? nope. I don't like your case on blue, b/c as a bunch of ppl have said, he's not acting like he did in Aperture perse and that's the basis of your argument. him writing "one liners" and looking "confused" isn't convincing enough, and I feel that you were just trying to push forward a new wagon on a player that lots of people criticize. Wtf is up with the 2 bolded points? You don't think I'm scum in the 1st point, but you think I'm pushing a wagon on a player as if was scum in the 2nd one? Make up your mind, am I scum or not? On March 29 2012 06:42 Nemesis wrote: His main case against bluelightz is that he is sheeping and playing like he did in Aperture Mafia. I checked his filter in aperture mafia, no he is not playing the same way. Bluelightz is giving out his reads in here, while in Aperture he just posted a bunch of fluff. Gonzaw, can you explain what is similar between bluelightz's player there as mafia, and his play here right now, because frankly,I don't see it. Maybe people are resisting, because there isn't a strong case against him? In both games he posts "innocent" stuff like smileys, for instance "O_O" or ":O" or "D:" or whatever. He doesn't look confident, he posts just to look active, etc. The important thing for me is that this is the next game he plays since Aperture, and I think he's playing very similarly. He's recent posting hasn't done anything to convince me otherwise either. And to those that say "Oh Blue is always scummy bla bla bla", well, there are plenty of games where he acts "scummy", but if you look closely you can see he's town. That's not one of those games. Apart from his bad posting, sheeping, flip-flopping regarding that ET vote, then yes, I'm basing my argument on meta, but I think that's enough. On March 29 2012 06:06 slOosh wrote: Gonzaw, out of the people who have called you out, who do you think is most suspicious? I'm most suspicious of Zentor. After rereading his filter, there are a few things that caught my eye: On March 27 2012 23:34 MrZentor wrote: *cough* you're *cough* EchelonTee seems to be behaving rather erratically. He starts by being helpful and explaining how he would treat the game. He continues his good townie streak by questioning BH's play with reasons. He then starts to go crazy. He then transitions from crazy back to normal good townie in this post. He does this a few times throughout his posts. To be honest, I can't decide if this is town or mafia behavior. He could be a town who is mixing BH's and VE's styles. He could be scum trying to make it seem like he is helping town while sowing chaos. I'll let somebody else decide. :/ What is this? He just points out ET's style of play, and puts a bunch of quotes; only to say that this doesn't matter later? Okay, I could let this pass, since he was just asked about his thoughts on ET, but what catches my attention is the bolded part. Not only he's wishy washy against him (a simple "He's null to me" would have sufficed), but he asks somebody else to decide? What possible motivation would he have to post that? His next post is just a rehash of VE's case against me, pointing out the "flag" stuff and the spaces from my posting (which as you have seen, I'm trying to improve). He then posts this referencing my post: His last post doesn't seem nearly as suspicious as his first two. Then after VE just points out some stuff about said post (which was weak stuff again), he immediately posts this: I will admit that it is more suspicious than I thought it was, but I still think the second post I cited is the most suspicious. When I asked why he suddenly thought it was suspicious, only by sheeping VE's post, he posts: He pointed out that it was suspicious. I agreed. I told you what I think about that post you made. Now this is clearly a lie since he never mentioned anything about that post, so when I call him out he posts: You only asked what I thought of it, not why I thought what I thought of it. ?? Seriously, that last sentence is so wrong. So if someone asks you what you think, then you shouldn't justify it just because they didn't specifically ask you why you think what you think? Really? It's obvious that when someone asks pressures you for your thoughts, you not only post your thoughts but also post the reasons for thinking that; that's the point of asking in the first place, to get people to post their thought process and reasoning. What's worse is even though he posted that, he never said why he thought about it either, he just points out I didn't ask him why he thought that, and instead of clearing doubts and posting exactly that, he just ignores it completely. Another thing that caught my eye, and he never responded either was this: In one of his earlier posts, he posted this: VE seems to be promoting a good townie environment and being a lot calmer than BH. I am most afraid of him being scum, because if he were, I would never know. He says he is afraid of VE being scum. I suppose this means he will put everything VE says under scrutiny, pressure him and keep an eye out on him in case he's scum, right? But then the only thing he does is agree with VE about everything, and not even hint at him being scum, not ever putting him under scrutiny, nothing. He only posts this (when I pressured him to): Actually, I analyze everything VE says, and, so far, I've agreed with *almost* everything he has said. I never saw anything that implied he was "analyzing" VE, nor his thoughts about him, nothing. He just immediately agreed on VE, sheeped his case on me, and when asked about said behaviour said he "analyses everything VE says". That seems bullshit to me. Him defending Bluelightz and saying he played "pro-town" isn't very good either. Oh, here's the kicker: On March 28 2012 23:18 MrZentor wrote: ##Vote Cyber_Cheese I'm voting for reasons I explained very early in the thread. Please search his filter for those "reasons". Didn't find them? here: I do agree that his initial accusation looks suspicious. The flag is really bizarre, because I couldn't imagine posting it as mafia or towns person. If I were mafia, why would I call attention to myself with a conspicuous flag? If I were a towns person, why would I give the mafia a hint at my nationality? Currently, he does seem like the scummiest player, because of the subtle accusation accompanied with his other posts. The ONLY time he posts his thoughts on C_C, which is basically at the start-middle of Day 1, and they are not very strong. He basically says he "looks suspicious" because of his accusation, and nothing else (even says the flag thing is a null tell to him). He never posted any of his thoughts on C_C's recent posting either. I'd be willing to lynch either him or Blue tomorrow, if a vig doesn't want to do me the favour and shoot one of them tonight. I don't like Sinensis' lack of participation and activity though. Will ccalf get replaced? He doesn't look good at all with that ninja-vote. If he doesn't post anything at all this night, then yes a vig should just shoot him, if not we will waste all D2 on him. Blazinghand my dear, would you make my day and respond to that post I made eons ago? Basically, what do you think about me? What do you think about the case made against me? Most importantly, what do you think about Blue and Zentor? | ||
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gonzaw
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On March 29 2012 13:26 VisceraEyes wrote: Sorry for being a bully guys, I'll try to stop. I make no guarantees. I'm taking a look at the C_C wagon. At the very least 2 and probably more scum are on the wagon. Cyber_Cheese (12): VisceraEyes (1): cccalf (1): Blazinghand ....are you kidding me? >_> lol | ||
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gonzaw
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I still want to know what you think about Blue, I don't think you ever stated what you thought about him previously. | ||
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On March 29 2012 18:19 cccalf wrote: I understand that given my D1 lack of involvement that I am #1 on the town's "people to kill" list. Furthermore the ninja vote for C_C, who turned out to be innocent, certainly didn't make me look like a great guy. It was just following the bare minimums of the rules, which looks bad, but I swear this was due to RL time constraints. Had you even read the thread by that point? Why did you vote him and not another one? Generally when one makes a placeholder vote, you make it on yourself or on a random person, which clearly wasn't the case. What were your reasons for voting C_C? Just because he had the majority? If so, can't you see how bad that is? Now that I have had time to do some investigating, I am certain that I'm not the only one with a really bad feeling about VE. He ran a hard "lynch C_C" campaign on D1. Turns out 12/14 voted incorrectly, but VE isn't bothered by it. He later changes his tone, but only slightly. I know that I'm already a prime target, so I don't think I'm losing a friend by bringing this up, and certainly not hurting the town. VE ran a pretty vicious witch hunt, and will probably do the same again. So what do you think about other players and cases against other players? What do you think about my case against Blue and Zentor? Final question: Why shouldn't a vig just shoot you tonight? You need to become way more active and contribute more than this if you want to even help us. You've already skated by 1 whole cycle, we can't allow you to do the same on D2. | ||
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On March 30 2012 01:25 MrZentor wrote: What case against me? I wasn't aware of this injustice! Can you take this seriously please? *sigh* @sloosh: good find, I didn't notice that first post of his regarding C_C. @BH,VE: Why the hell don't you guys do something more productive than this pointless bickering? Here, I made a program that exactly defines the last 3 pages: int main() { while(BH && VE==retarded) { BH: VE, be sure to post your reads before the deadline; VE: You are scum and I'll get shot tonight; BH: No you wont, you are useless; } return 0; } I'm going to uni right now, will be back after night ends, so hopefully see you later. | ||
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Why would scum risk using the nuke on N1? On March 30 2012 05:38 Nemesis wrote: As for gonzaw, I still don't see the stupid similarity between his play here and aperture. Your example of using smileys are horrible. I don't think you are scum but your case is terrible. Here's a counterexample for when bluelightz is town from Mr Wiggles mini Mafia II and he uses stupid smileys too. Here's what you don't get. I noticed his odd style of play on Aperture, and I was right. What does this mean? That that style of play is his scum play. He played Aperture AFTER Mr Wiggles mini Mafia II (I think I'm right though). I can't tell you more than yes, the styles are VERY similar, and the way he posted (remember, he starts making town reads out of a sudden, doesn't act confident, ignores my case against him in the beginning) was similar too. I find it strange how nobody can see the similarities. *sigh* Okay people, if ANY of you wants to lynch Blue, then I'll be 100% on it, but it seems I can't convince anyone to vote him not even in 72 hours or so. I find his unusual fixation with killing cccalf, someone totally inactive, suspicious as well. He just went against him since the beginning, and that would be pretty easy on someone that didn't have any posts. Either way, cccalf, if you don't contribute anything worthwhile this D2 you should hang, I'm amazed how no vig shot him yesterday. I am suspicious of Sinensis. I noticed his lack of commitment and activity, and found it suspicious. BH and others made some other points I hadn't considered by that point, he's a good candidate for a lynch as well. However, I think there are a few other people more likely to flip mafia. One is Blue, but I guess nobody will be convinced of him being scum by now, so I'll try and spend my efforts hunting the remaining scum and urge you all to take a VERY CLOSE look at Blue, and see when and how he posts his thoughts, seeing if he tries to fly under the radar, etc. Another guy that should die is this one: On March 30 2012 01:25 MrZentor wrote: What case against me? I wasn't aware of this injustice! On March 30 2012 08:08 MrZentor wrote: To be honest, I don't see an actual case against me, and a lynch bandwagon on me has already started. You guys are really going easy on the mafia; I am starting to see what VE was so angry. On March 30 2012 10:56 MrZentor wrote: Oh yes, he criticizes me for defending Bluelightz. On March 30 2012 11:05 MrZentor wrote: Also, he's just mad because I know he's scum. Okay, this guy is not even taking this seriously anymore. You don't even attempt to defend yourself, NOR post anything constructive, post any other thoughts of your own, NOTHING. Just die for christ's sake. ##Vote: MrZentor | ||
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gonzaw
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On March 30 2012 11:24 Sinensis wrote: It isn't Nemesis, I am actually pretty sure about this. It's froggy, he's the one who sheeped me for an irrelevant reason after Nemesis's original vote and case. cccalf, froggy, and gonzaw. I am okay with lynching any of these players today, though I will prefer cccalf unless he posts something. Why don't you post cases against those players and me? So far this Day 2 you have just been defending yourself and bickered with Nemensis, you haven't posted any cases, or thorough reads or thoughts. Froggy is scum just because he "sheeped" you? When, where, how? Point out his post, call him out, post more thoughts about him. On March 30 2012 11:50 MrZentor wrote: I like how you say I don't defend myself after quoting a post in which I defend myself. Let me interpret this post. dusfgpiutserlnmgszrbcwidanfioftlnldhtubmhnrnoeozneeoniaushfdIAMSCUMLYNCHMRZadsjfioajdsfdoijioasdfggghtrtrjgsdgfafsdxjn ....is this a joke? Saying "Oh yes, he criticizes me for defending Bluelightz." is a defense? Really? Who do you expect will buy this bullshit? *sigh* Okay people, I want people to post their thoughts on this. Froggy, jhonny, ET, zelblade, Blue, etc, tell me what you think about Zentor, and tell me if you would be okay lynching him or not. | ||
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gonzaw
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On March 30 2012 08:02 Sinensis wrote: cccalf is probably mafia. If you want to vote for a useless townie, this is the guy to vote for. If you want to vote for someone who's only case has been against the dead "town leader" who flipped blue, cccalf is the one to vote for. If cccalf flips scum, I believe his probable scum team mates are: zelblade, MrZentor, and froggynoddy. These are the only players not to lash out at cccalf for his inactivity. If you have more specific questions for me, please ask them. On March 30 2012 11:24 Sinensis wrote: It isn't Nemesis, I am actually pretty sure about this. It's froggy, he's the one who sheeped me for an irrelevant reason after Nemesis's original vote and case. cccalf, froggy, and gonzaw. I am okay with lynching any of these players today, though I will prefer cccalf unless he posts something. Sinensis, why are your reads so different here? You conclude that cccalf is mafia on both. However, in the 1st one you say that zelblade and Zentor are likely his scumbuddies, but on the 2nd one you don't mention them at all, and it even seems like you try to buddy up with Zentor there. If in the 1st post you think ccalf is scum, and Zentor/zelblade are his scumbuddies, then since nothing important happened between these 2 posts, if in your 2nd post you think cccalf is scum, then you should still think Zentor/zelblade are his scumbuddies. If something changed your mind, then you specifically state so, you don't casually talk with the guy you thought was scum earlier like if nothing happened. Also, remember basic logic: P1)If A is scum, then B and C are scum P2)I think A is scum T)I think B and C are scum | ||
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gonzaw
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And no, you didn't say you were suspicious of Zentor nor zeblade in your second post. This wouldn't have been important, if it wasn't for the fact that you seemed to try and buddy up with the guy that supposedly was suspicious to you. | ||
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gonzaw
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On March 30 2012 23:57 MrZentor wrote: It's not my fault you are a retarded scum that doesn't know what a defense is. I won't let you derail the discussion with ad hominems and misdirections Get serious or I'm ignoring you until you die. Rofl, I have been just waiting for an idiot to say this. Because a lot of people were talking about the flag, I had to show them why it was unhelpful and should be ignored; I was also showing why it wasn't part of my case. I also like how you bolded everything but the most important part: "Currently, he does seem like the scummiest player, because of the subtle accusation accompanied with his other posts." I explicitly state the crux of my argument and why I'm ignoring part of the "evidence" other people were using. And you think the evidence I'm ignoring is the crux of my arguement? Scum or idiot? The point is that is the only time you mention C_C. And that was at the beginning of Day 1, and only dwelled with C_C's first posts. You never stated what you thought about C_C's newer posts, you never stated what you thought about his case on Blue and if you thought his new actions made him more scummy or not. Your reasons for voting C_C were ONLY based on his first 3-4 posts, and you completely disregarded his later ones Zentor, could you even try to care about this game? You call everybody that accuses you "Scum or idiot/stupid?", you don't defend yourself against the points I brought up, and you didn't respond before in N1 either. You don't even try to post your thoughts on other people, or pressure anybody: You haven't voted yet, so what are you waiting for? Who will you vote? Wtf are you doing if it's not trying to figure out who is scum, and vote them if you think they are? You are just coasting and trolling everybody. I guess your scumteam thinks they've already won by killing both VE and BH, right? This place is deserted atm people, that's bad. I'm still expecting other players thoughts on Zentor, and hopefully their votes. On March 30 2012 13:55 johnnywup wrote: my read on zentor: he started off really helpful but got progressively less helpful. don't know if that entails scum, but don't think he should be a prime target atm unless someone can point out some explicitly scummy posts of his to me What do you think about my case on him? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686¤tpage=28#547 @ET: So, do you think I'm scum or not? You haven't answered that question from mine before. | ||
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gonzaw
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On March 30 2012 12:50 Sinensis wrote: I am not buddying up I am trying to come eventually come to a mutual lynch agreement with someone. Yes I am suspicious of him. Yes I am okay if he votes for someone on my scum list. Hell, he could vote for himself and I'd be happy. So it's not suspicious to you, that a guy you think is scum is tunneling another guy you think is scum? That's just so "cool" to you that you casually talk to him? How about this: You think Zentor is scummy/scum, then vote him. A vig can take care of cccalf tonight; or more importantly, a vig SHOULD take care of cccalf tonight. Like some people said before, we don't need to waste all D2 discussion about him, and let the thread stagnate. | ||
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On March 31 2012 02:23 froggynoddy wrote: Sorry for late reply, manic day at work. @ Gonzaw: Please do not defend me, I don't need your buddying. I had the same gripe with VE defending JW and Blue. I'm not buddying you. If Sinensis thinks you are scum, I want him to make a case and post more than just "he sheeped on his vote on me". Also froggy, my case doesn't rest on his vote on C_C (although it's an important factor). Read my case, and come back and tell me your thoughts. I linked to it in my response to JW a little while back. | ||
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So what are you waiting for? Are you waiting to see if a bandwagon against me forms first, so you can jump on it later? Are you waiting to see if you can vote for someone else later? | ||
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Also, I'd like to see why you think I'm scum. Is it because of my first 3 posts? Just like you thought C_C was scum ONLY because of his first 3 posts but disregarded the rest? | ||
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gonzaw
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We caught you, now stop talking and wait to die while we find your remaining scumbuddies. We've been asking him for his thoughts, defense and cases against me since the beginning of Day 2, he won't start doing it now, he's trolling us @Sinensis: I'm still waiting. Make a stance about Zentor NOW. Do you want to lynch him or not? You think he's "scummy" and he's in your suspects list, so logically you would want him dead and would vote for him, right? If you are town, then you MUST post your reads and cases against froggy and me (since we are in your "Top 3" scumlist). Stop this tunneling of cccalf to get away with posting nothing at all; you can still push a ccalf lynch and still post your thoughts on other players. @Echelon: You too, you still haven't answered my question. Do you think I'm scum or not? If so, then why aren't you pushing me by now and agree with me on Zentor? If not, then why did you always post trying to discredit me and paint me suspicious? @Blue: I see you are still not doing anything constructive at all. You will die tomorrow. I think the scum team at this moment is Blue, Zentor, Sinensis, and someone else, perhaps ET, or maybe even zelblade or someone else. If cccalf is scum, I don't see the sense in both Blue and Sinensis pushing for his lynch and avoiding all other discussion just to bus their scumbuddy. Not to mention that if cccalf is town, we would waste all D2 discussion on him, agree on an unanimous lynch on him which will give us absolutely no info, and will leave us on D3 LYLO/MYLO with nothing to work with. Scum would love that; but sadly maybe that has to happen on D3 if ccalf continues being inactive and doing nothing at all, and we don't have any vigs. We'll deal with that once Zentor dies. | ||
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I do think that scum killing both VE and BH, and getting the doctor on N1 may have made them think they already won, which is why I think they are all doing nothing at all, trolling, etc. | ||
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gonzaw
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On March 31 2012 09:54 Bluelightz wrote: Basically I admitted that so yes. So you admit you sheeped VE then? That means you think I'm "scummy" just because VE told you at the beginning of the game, right? What do you think about me other than my first 4 posts? They don't matter or something? On March 31 2012 12:07 EchelonTee wrote: @gonzaw+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lm0fowt5wK1qdlkgg.gif) you'll have your due time gonzee; i've got my plate full with current lynch candidates. @MrZentor post your case on gonzaw, don't do something stupid What the hell is that supposed to mean? Okay, there are quite a few people here that think I'm scum, but no one is even trying to explain why. If you think I'm scum and don't make a case, then you can't convince anyone to vote me. If you think I'm scum, then by not making a case against me you don't allow me to defend myself and convince you that I am in fact town. If you don't make a case, then we can't know if your reasons for thinking I'm scum are legit and you are town, or if they are not and you are scum. You guys are hurting town by doing this one way or the other, so either make a case against me or pressure me, or just shut up about it and focus on more important things. Of course, if you are scum just keep doing what you are doing, so it's easier to kill you later. This includes: Sinensis, Zentor, ET, Blue, someone else I may have forgotten about. On March 31 2012 12:45 Sinensis wrote: I'm more inclined to go MrZentor's way and just not co operate with you guys, if that means getting lynched so be it. My vote is staying on cccalf. Period. If you don't help town you should die. There's ABSOLUTELY no reason for you not to try to cooperate with town and win if you are a townie. There's no reason for you to not post your thoughts, reads and cases, even if you think all of us are "idiots or scum". Seriously, ever since D2 started, you haven't posted almost any reads, and posted almost 0% reasoning behind the ones you did post. And this doesn't have anything to do with your vote on cccalf. | ||
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On March 31 2012 13:05 Sinensis wrote: Because zentor has contributed more than cccalf. What do you think about his behaviour on this Day 2 then? You can't really say he contributed more than c3 on D2, even though c3 hasn't posted anything yet. | ||
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@jhonny: He said froggy, zentor and zelblade are likely scum because they never mentioned cccalf or called him out. That is a valid point, but not enough to think someone is scum, specially since we don't know if cccalf is in fact scum or not. But again, that's not enough, and he should post more thoughts about them. I still don't know why he thinks I'm scum though. | ||
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gonzaw
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So Zentor, let me get this straight: Since the middle of N1, you decide to "act" as stupid scum, so throughout that night and subsequent day, you would : -Get ALL attention on you and have almost ALL discussion be made about you and not finding the ACTUAL scum -Get a bandwagon formed against you barely HOURS before the day ends And all this just so you can make a shitty PBPA analysis of everbody that doesn't even explain why you think some of them are scum or town, and is instead a "retelling" of their actions, and the reason you think they are scum are shitty as hell? (seriously, it seems you gave random ratings to some players, which you never stated ANY opinion regarding them) Then you claim Doctor? All of this HOURS before the day ends? You are going to tell us, that our DOCTOR, one of our most important power roles, would do this stupid gambit to get a bandwagon going against him? Are you kidding me? One more important thing: You never responded to the case I made on N1. People didn't think you are scum just because you acted retarded (if not people would think Kenpachi/etc would be scum every single game), people thought you were scum because of how you acted on D1 and N1 I thought you were scum because of the points I made in my case, if it was for me I would have lynched you there myself without you doing all this "act" of yours. Yet you still fail to acknowledge that, and you keep ignoring my case. Seriously, you HAVE to be mafia, this doesn't make any sense if you are town. If you are scum, then great, you spend ALL D2 acting stupid so your buddies can jump easily on your wagon, and so ALL discussion on D2 is stopped and all scumhunting is stopped as well. Then right before the day ends, you make a half-assed big-assed post explaining your "act", and then claim Doctor to draw the real doctor out; or if the doctor isn't active when you claimed, then switch the lynch to an inactive and waste us ALL D2 Your claim my be true, but if someone else claims doctor you die. *sigh* We don't have time to create another lynch candidate, meaning we can't lynch Sinensis or Blue.. I'd consider a NL, if it wasn't for the fact we would still get to a D3 MYLO with it ##Unvote: MrZentor ##Vote: cccalf | ||
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If none of those happen, then his claim is legit, as much as it pains me to say. What he did made absolutely no sense, and has so much scum agenda written on it it's not funny; and it makes me want to automatically lynch him right now. But if there is no cc then it's very likely he's telling the truth. If cccalf is in fact the SU Doctor, well we are pretty much screwed, considering he doesn't even have the time to post here. | ||
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gonzaw
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Now that I think about it, if I was SU Doctor I would never claim at this point, no matter if someone else (in this case Zentor) claimed it as well. Once I get killed at night (and scum have a 100% chance of hitting me, assuming there are no other doctors), then it would reduce the number of SU players by 1, and rid town of any Doctors. So yeah, the real doctor wouldn't counterclaim. @froggy: If he's mafia, he got pinned down by me on N1, and decided to troll the hell out of D2 and fake-claim SU Doctor to draw the real doctor out, and survive one more day. This would mean that once the real doctor claims, they can off him and we will waste all D3 in lynching Zentor as well. sloosh, I really hope you are right. ##Unvote: cccalf ##Vote: MrZentor | ||
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There's also the chance scum are already on cccalf (Blue+Sinensis I'm looking at you). Actually guys, I think Zentor is scum now, vote him | ||
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Also, if he's scum, he has now read this and will be sure to vote/post at :59. If he does that we let a vig shoot him tonight, and if we don't have vigs we lynch him tomorrow. | ||
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If I'm just using the mouse and the keyboard is away, I'm too lazy for that and just push the "reload" button ctrl+r seems too complex lol! | ||
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fuck | ||
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MrZentor, you are SU Doctor! Every night you may choose to protect one player other than yourself from NK. However, it takes great effort to protect someone which is why your protection will only work when you and your colleague - US Doctor - pick the same target. This restriction is removed when SU Doctor is killed, but you will become one-shot (be able to protect someone only once in the game). Your protection will also not be refunded if you fail to save someone. Neither you or the target will be informed upon the successful protect. Don't forget you have to PM both Hassybaby and me. You win when all threats to town are eliminated. Shouldn't it say "US Doctor" in the bolded part? | ||
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gonzaw
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Damn it DYH, you need to step up A LOT. I fully expect you to contribute and cooperate with us on D3, you need to make up for the 2 days ccc wasted Since there are no medics left (I assume), tomorrow we are at LYLO almost 100%. If there are any vigs left, then you ONLY should shoot if you are VERY confident your target is scum. If not, you will automatically lose us the game. I think tonight the DTs should step up (maybe there is one SU DT and one US DT?), they may be the only thing that can make us win this game considering we still lose if the remaining 2 SU townies die as well. I think it's clear that if you are SU, you don't claim your nationality under ANY circumstance. If a US DT/vet/vig/something dies, and in his role PM it's revealed that he has a SU counterpart, then if you have the counterpart roel you shouldn't claim your role at all, since it would imply you are SU. If you are SU DT and have a scum check on someone, push him, make convincing cases and DON'T reveal you are DT, in the case the US DT dies. This is assuming the power roles come in pairs, and if you are a SU power role you are informed of your pair in your role PM. If you aren't then feel free to claim your role if the situation needs it. Even if we are on a roll and start lynching scum each day, all they need to do to win is kill 2 SUs in the span of 4 nights. We need all the effort possible to win this after these past aweful days/nights, including from our remaining blues. On April 01 2012 07:25 slOosh wrote: This game is just depressing. We lynch a town vet because he is busy, the two other town vets go at each others throats and both die, one to a nuke I have no idea how it landed, and then another town decides to troll town hard and ends up flipping the last doctor. If you guys think I'm scum let's play it out now. Otherwise we still have scum to hunt. On April 01 2012 07:54 slOosh wrote: All my reads were built upon the premise that MrZentor was scum. As you can imagine, I currently have absolutely no motivation to play and reconstruct reads, and the fact that D2 is half troll doesn't help either. All I know how to do is explain myself - anything more I would have to read to give proper anything. Wait, you say you have no motivation but you incite others to have enough motivation to catch the remaining scum? Start "reconstructing reads" now. You haven't posted many reads on D2, other than you thought Zentor was scum. Would you be willing to lynch Blue or Sinensis tomorrow? Other than those two, who do you find suspicious? Even if both Blue and Sinensis are scum, and even if ccalf was scum (so DYH is too), there would be 1 scum remaining. | ||
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You can shoot Bluelightz tonight. He's very likely scum, and even though we risk automatically losing if he's town; it's not like we are in a much better position if you don't shoot him. | ||
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gonzaw
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You've been tunneling cccalf since the beginning of D2, and haven't posted a single properly founded read nor any cases on the players you think are scum (or well, that are "suspicious" since you never stated you thought any was scum, with the exception of froggy/ccalf), and now you are telling us you will just keep your vote on DYH and do nothing on D3? I can't believe Zentor said you were 38% scum or something. Come on people! We can win this! Post reads and start discussion! My 100% win streak is on the line At least do me the favour and care more about the game guys | ||
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@Sinensis: What "analysis" are you talking about? | ||
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What about behaviour? What about posting style? What about people's reads and the reasoning they put behind them? | ||
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There is a SU one and a US one, and both of them have to target the same guy to make a kill. In which case, if there is a US/SU vig, shoot Blue. We don't want the SU one shooting him but the US one not, and viceversa. C_C's case wasn't that good, here is mine: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686¤tpage=21#407 I don't have much to add to this case, considering Blue didn't do anything worthwhile since D1 (just check his filter) Here is something I haven't noticed before: On March 28 2012 14:06 Sinensis wrote: Every game I have played with Bluelightz this happens. I would go so far as to say voting for Bluelightz day 1 is a scum tell on TL mafia. On March 31 2012 13:44 Sinensis wrote: Look. There are 7 votes for zentor. So unless me and/or Bluelightz are scum, which for the sake of this argument we are not, then there are three scum voting for MrZentor right now. Would mafia vote for mafia? On April 01 2012 14:55 Sinensis wrote: The votes have been so bad there is absolutely no way to get an alignment read on anyone. I am pretty sure Bluelightz is town, and I am pretty sure cccalf was noob mafia. That's it. Everything else is so beyond screwed up there is no sense to be made out of anyone. At this point johnnywup, Nemesis, and gonzaw could easily be scum too. Who the f knows. Seriously? Both tried VERY HARD to get cccalf killed, avoided ALL other disscussion, and either defend themselves without any justification(Sin->Blue), or are completely wishy washy regarding the other (Blue->Sin) This is the plan then: -Vig shoot Blue tonight -We lynch Sinensis tomorrow. | ||
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The thing is that we need to be VERY careful right now. We can't start spouting whole scumteams at this moment, since only 1 of them needs to be town for us to lose. Check what happened on Newbie IV, everybody started posting whole scumteams, which were wrong, making the townies in those think the ones that posted were scum, and basicly losing town the game. I think we need to focus on Sinensis (once Blue is vigged hopefully), and see how other people react to it. Remember that scum win with only 1 misslynch, so they might as well try their hardest to make that misslynch tomorrow. | ||
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Although I think that if a SU flips tonight, we have practically lost >_> p.s Happy birthday too! | ||
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The thing is that if it's a SU, then it's almost impossible that we can win, EVEN if we successfully lynch all scum. | ||
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On April 02 2012 05:46 EchelonTee wrote: Want to hear my opinion of gonzaw? The fact that he writes really big posts every time means it is hard to dissect his reads. The fact that other people have acted wildly anti-town (sinensis/MrZ sigh...) means that he gets a free pass to look townie if he writes look townie for no good reason. He has also been pushing, in my opinion, townies all game. But is this hard evidence? Nope! am I willing to bet losing this game? Nope!!!! So I push people who I see as more scummy. You calling me suspicious for playing optimally isn't you being dumb; you're smarter than this. You're pulling the strings lol. Wait, if you don't think I'm scum, why do you even point this out? Apparently you think sloosh+DYH+froggy are scum, so why did you even post that? Saying "he looks townie but he could be scum just having a free pass" isn't valid at all. If you find me suspicious then point out things that make me suspicious, if not then do EXACTLY what you said we should do and "focus on a handful of candidates". He has also been pushing, in my opinion, townies all game So you think Blue is town? Why? Prove it to us What do you think about Sinensis? | ||
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Just checked: On March 30 2012 14:13 EchelonTee wrote: I disagree that sinensis's play is "quite different" in normal mini mafia I. The only difference I see is that when people are now accusing sinensis, he doesn't fly into a relentless rage; that's the experience that sinensis has gained. If you look at his filter this game, he commented on a lot of different topics throughout the day and put a stance down. did he make big fat posts? nope. sinensis just works off a different diet, and it doesn't sound poisonoues to me. Ex: there's a difference between there's these two posts: says why he wants to vote and does it decisively. references earlier, very intangible reasons. makes it look like he put forth a decent case on C_C when he never rly did. both are short votes, but you have to read into tone. Sinensis has been decently forthright Doesn't seem too convincing to me ET, if you still think Sinensis is a "hapless" townie, then what do you think about the cases brought against him now? | ||
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Okay, we have like 1% chance of winning this, and the only way we can do it is by this: IF YOU ARE THE US DT DON'T CLAIM AT ALL! Why? Because scum will know NOT to kill you, since you are US. They have to kill the remaining SU from 4 remaining townies in 3 nights, in which case they will most surely get him even if we lynch all of them. Also, it seems there are 2 Godfathers, meaning his checks will most likely be useless: Will Godfathers return "Innocent" to both the KGB Agent and the US DT? Okay people, Blue was not shot, meaning we certainly don't have a vig. Do we kill him or Sinensis today? @DYH: Please reread all filters and the thread and tell us exactly who you want lynched. Out of Blue or Sinensis, who do you prefer to lynch? | ||
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Ah fuck this. We might get more support of a Sinensis lynch right now, considering even some people think Blue is town. ##Vote: Sinensis | ||
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He was pretty vocal, and was pushing the people that are likely scum, so killing him to have less "opposition" makes sense from their POV. Apart from that there's no much to say. ET did go against sloosh last night, why would he FoS him if he was going to kill him at night? Like you said, it's WIFOM. I'm waiting for his response to sloosh's death. Who do you think is scum now ET? | ||
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Also I doubt a scum DT had anything to do with the 2 SU townies we got lynched. Either way, ET respond my question, who do you think is scum now? | ||
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Seriously, it's like you don't even care anymore. If you were town, your misslynch would cost us the game. I guess your team would just want to try and snipe the remaining SU townie then and not even care about trying to defend themselves, etc? You may though, your chances of doing so are great, but there's also the chance you miss; and there we win. Finding the 4th scum will be harder though. @zelblade, what do you think of this? Will you vote Sinensis or look at another candidate? If so, who other players do you think are scum? @DYH: Do something dude, I think you've had enough time to read the thread and filters, tell us your thoughts. | ||
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Okay then, I await both of your thoughts. Mods, isn't 5 considered majority this day? Because Sinensis only has 4 votes on him, yet he is still marked as red in the OP | ||
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Okay, it seems we arrived at an agreement. If you are a townie DON'T VOTE ANYONE ELSE OTHER THAN SINENSIS! If you are a townie, and the day ends with you voting another townie, then scum can make a last-minute switch towards this player and instantly win the game. This happened on Newbie IV where I was scum, and I'm sure scum already thought about it, so ALL of us need to be on Sinensis by the time the day ends. If one of us IS NOT on Sinensis, but Sinensis is still lynched and flips red, it either means you are scum, or your target is scum (since scum wouldn't switch their votes at the last minute). So unless your vote is on Bluelightz or lucky enough to be on one of the other 2 scum, then just don't risk us the game and keep your vote on Sinensis. @Blue: I'm wondering what explanation you could give that I'm scum by this point lol | ||
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I agree that we have plenty of time finding the remaining scum though lol (assuming Blue is scum and we lynch him tomorrow). | ||
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Don't let this game go yellow | ||
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Really, you keep nitpicking the wording of my posts to discredit me or something, say I'm on "your plate" or something, but you don't even think I'm scum? Seems to me that you and Blue are doing this to try and get me lynched later. I think you are bussing Sinensis at this point, and you are even bussing Blue. At least that gives you 2 more nights to snipe the remaining SU and if you don't you could convince people you are town because you were on 2 scum lynches. But I wouldn't want to deal with that now, we need to focus ENTIRELY on very few candidates (Sinensis+Blue at this moment) if we ever want to win this at all. | ||
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Also, it's not about presenting "cases". I don't need to put a gigantic post explaining why I find you scummy, if I don't plan on voting you right now and having people follow it. I pressured you since D1, asked you questions which you responded pretty sub-par; and constantly said why I find you suspicious these days. That's enough. However, you haven't done any of the sort against me, yet you still think I'm "suspicious" somehow (which again is one of the reason I find you scummy). I am leaning towards froggy or zelblade as the remaining scum; but I will look at it better at Night. | ||
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Although I advice not taking things from outside the game into consideration, since it's against the rules right? Anyways, I'm going away for some time in 1 hour or so, but hopefully I'm back before the flip. | ||
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So, isn't the flip in 10 minutes or not? There's nobody around lol | ||
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Or am I getting this wrong? :S | ||
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Told you Blue was scum >_> | ||
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EDIT: I guess my case was "shitty" enough to make people think that right?  | ||
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That seemed like a taunt to us, and if he was medic he would protect you knowing scum would fall to that trick. But well, luckily he didn't. P.S: We are still waiting for you to eat your hat BH | ||
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I was always thinking "Damn, maybe the Obs QT figured all 4 of us out by now " or something EDIT: Was my case on Blue that bad? lol I would have probably pushed him by the same reasons even if I was town. Like, I think I linked (in the scum QT) to a post that I was gonna make, where Blue posted EXACTLY like in Aperture. Poor Blue convinced me not to post it | ||
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Apart from sloosh I didn't see a town leader that could break us, and thankfully sloosh wasn't that active or pushed us too much when he was alive. But meh I think I've explained everything in the Scum QT, so if you guys have the time read it. EDIT: Would this be a bad case against Blue? And I didn't go against him because he was easy. I thought I was justified in going against him because I did the same thing on Aperture and I was right, so I would be "emotionally" biased against thinking Blue was scum because of the same reasons Here + Show Spoiler + Okay Bluelightz, I was hoping that if you were town you would respond to my posts and try to be as helpful as possible. I found your reaction to be the worst one possible. Okay people, this is why I think we should lych Blue: Here, take a look at his filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686&user=235418 And now look at the one from Aperture Mafia (he was scum there): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319120&user=235418 See any similarities? Here: Aperture Mafia (scum): On March 17 2012 10:21 Bluelightz wrote: My eyes O_O, I think that Wiggles is town and trustable for the elections, vote for the wiggul cause! On March 17 2012 09:39 Bluelightz wrote: Adding to the discussion Should the person that gets elected should claim the power or not? I think that he should claim the powers if its anti-town but im open to other opinions :D. On March 17 2012 10:53 Bluelightz wrote: Its tempting to believe this because Kenpachi does this every game :O, any thoughts? Sum of All Fears: On March 27 2012 09:42 Bluelightz wrote: O_O AFAIK, I don't have nuff' information yet to make an educated guess at who is scum :p I can take a look at anyone if you want to, just ask On March 27 2012 14:38 Bluelightz wrote: Sinensis, what do you think of Blazinghand now with his vote on Johhny? also srsly cool down we're all friends ==". On March 27 2012 23:46 Bluelightz wrote: Alright guys gonna go sleep for tonight, cya in the morning as a summary, C_C and cccalf, and possibly gonzaw I will vote for if you guys want to lynch him in the morning when I wake up, other lynch candidates I will review before voting.He has similar post patterns, like posting similes, being "friendly", not knowing what to do or acting disoriented. Here is his filter from Purgatory Mafia (town): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=298603&user=235418¤tpage=2 Actually, here, here's my "case" on him from Aperture, it's almost the same: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319120¤tpage=53#1054 Here are more similarities: Aperture(scum): On March 17 2012 10:32 gonzaw wrote: Ehmm, don't see how asking that questions makes it feel he's not coordinated with other people. Seems like a question that's totally unrelated to his alignment. Apart from that I don't see how you can think he's town. Also, where is Paperscraps? He just disappeared shortly after VE's death. Could be a time-zone thing, but either way I want to know why he was convinced VE was 3rd party, and why he suddenly went AFK when he was "Excited to get started". On March 17 2012 10:24 Bluelightz wrote: @gonzaw Would mafia ask this question? I think that Wiggles is town based on that he is posting like not being coordinated with other people. Sum of All Fears: On March 27 2012 22:32 gonzaw wrote: @Bluelightz: You say ET is town and pressed people to post, do you have anything to back that up? Although I see you are posting lists now though On March 27 2012 22:55 Bluelightz wrote: @gonzaw about ET some example of well, not "pressing" but pushing for more people to post There, ET pushes Sinensis to post more of his thoughts. This is one of the reasons why I think he's town. Again, he posts a random town read on someone nobody would ever think is town by that point, and justifies it using very bad reasoning. You know what's the most damning? In Aperture you COMPLETELY ignored my case on you, you never mentioned it nor addressed it, not even when I was alive. Now you are doing the same, you are ignoring my case as well, you are ignoring my questions and my pressure. I think you should have tried to change your scum play, it would have been a little bit harder for me to find you: ##Vote: Bluelightz I messed up some quotes though. | ||
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See ET? :D | ||
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We didn't have a RBer for instance, so I don't know if it was that favored towards us. The Doctor thing seemed pretty weak though, but I think it was meant to be used when the other doctor died as 1-shot, not having both doctors alive through ALL the game blindly choosing who to save and hoping both choose the same target, and hoping scum kill that target themselves. | ||
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So what would have happened if we killed froggy? We would have killed the US DT that's what. That wouldn't have been too shabby for a N1 kill either don't you think? >_> | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686¤tpage=49#967 Gonzaw confirmed town. EDIT: On Obs QT sloosh wrote: P.s. gonzaw you can do it! don't let ET get away w that crap. I'd just lynch him over bluelightz since you might die overnight. I found this support from the Obs QT quite comforting :D | ||
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On April 04 2012 13:38 EchelonTee wrote: @sloosh yeah I actually planned to go down scummily by attacking you and such, because in the off chance that Sinensis made a turn around, there was almost 0 chance that gonzaw was going to be lynched. GJ catching it, though more people really should've >< bringing up that meta could've helped I spose, but D1 lynches are always hard to tell. If I was actually townie it would've been pretty hard to defend C_C after the train started chugging along. lmao at gonzaw getting more support from town/obs QT then from his scumbuddies xP love you gonzo Yeah, I think I would have been better switching my allegiance mid-game to town, at least they defended me and didn't FoS me without giving ANY reason > : ( | ||
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>_> Of course that will change whenever I get to play a Mini as town | ||
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I was FoSed as soon as I made my 1st post, how is that hiding under the radar? lol | ||
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On April 05 2012 07:33 Probulous wrote: That was post prior to that. The point being that whilst Gonzaw had been FOS'd he clearly wasn't concerned with contributing. He was responding to stuff that related to him and nothing else. You however were lurking but pointing out little things that peope were missing. You were clearly paying attention whilst Gonzaw looked like he was trying to be active without contributing. Flying under the radar to me is not about not posting or not being FOS'd, it is about being in the thread with no-one paying attention to you. The fact that world war III was happening and he jumped in with this post (Klicky) which was just a big distraction especially that it was focused on Bluelightz who is really difficult to read day 1. Then the only thing he says about the whole BH/VE thing was It was like this stuff didn't matter. Every other townie was confused and trying to work out the whole BH/VE/C_C thing and he jumps in with a case on Bluelightz of all people. It just seemed really weird to arrive on the scene of a massacre and comment on the drapes. Even when I'm town I don't care about the massive (petty) arguments people have, specially if BH is involved in one. If I think both players involved are town I just insult both of them tell them to stop and dwell on something else (I think I did the same on Aperture). Yeah, I know I didn't "take part" of that discussion that much, but really what would you expect I was scum >_> I still don't see how everybody thought I was scum because I FoSed Blue "out of all people"...I mean, I would have done the same if I was town I think I caught him as scum one game, and see he acts EXACTLY the same in the next game, I actually found it odd how many people were defending him. Of course that made things better for us. | ||
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EDIT: Being "aweful to read" isn't that offensive this game. I mean, that's good for scum isn't it? | ||
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When I ask people questions or pressure them, I don't really want "other" people to read it and reflect on it or anything; I just want the guy I'm pressuring to read it, and if someone else reads and it wants to pressure that guy then great. Could you give specific examples from this game where my posts were "aweful to read"? I will most likely continue to use the [ hr ] linebreaks, so well, I guess I will get misslynched very often in the future >_> I don't think anybody complained at all after I started using them though | ||
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Although there are posts of mine that have a lot of linebreaks (and are quite big), so maybe I can put a headline in each section of it to make it better to read (unless I flip scum again >_> ). EDIT: Wait, what cases are you guys talking about? My Zentor case or my Blue case (which I posted recently)? | ||
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Like I said, maybe I should put some headlines, like some people put Re: [stuff] and the like Second, you are aware I was scum right? >_> Yes I could have defended myself against VE concisely, but the more I dragged out the issue and the more I posted things just because the better | ||
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On April 05 2012 11:30 Probulous wrote: I will  He has made it clear that he didn't want to be clear and concise because he was scum. So when we play again if he doesn't make an effort in this regard I will have to assume he is scum again. One day there will be an Adam, Gonzaw, Sloosh, ET, Mattchew, Cephiro and Probulous team and it will be glorious. Until that day... ##Vote: Gonzaw Fairwell buddy Oh don't worry, I will go against your throat as well if I see you are not being as helpful as you are when you are town  ##Nuke: Probulous But yes, that scum team will be glorious  | ||
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On April 05 2012 11:38 slOosh wrote: Haha, reading the game with knowledge of all roles is funny. And really instructive - should've suspected gonzaw when he straight up cooperates with ET D3. I've been toying with this idea of (should I have been alive or there was more time for discussion), just switching things up and suggesting a bluelightz lynch before Sinensis, to see if there would be resistance. Do you guys think that would have worked? Pfff I would have 100% supported a Blue lynch, I would have been glad to take him off our scum QT. ... ..lol jk you are awesome Blue don't worry | ||
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...I guess playing so much as scum has corrupted me a little bit >_> | ||
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I can be all like "I'm a day vig muthafockers; scum, you will FEAR me right now Hey Probulous, tell me why I shouldn't just shoot you right now? Huh? Nothing to say? ##Shoot: Probulo... Sorry, something got caught up on my trigger. But it won't happen again Prob, so I want some answers!" :D | ||
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lol I was kind of slow here, I played 1 game and then didn't join another one in like 2 months lol I'm making up for it now though | ||
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On April 05 2012 15:16 slOosh wrote: lol! actually gonzaw and I did some IRC mafia when we would wait around near lynch deadlines and stuff. Seriously, I never knew mafia did so much waiting. Which is one reason why I love rolling town - no need to wait to discuss stuff with people, just play whenever you feel like it. Yeah. Town Bus Drivers ftw!! | ||
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