EPTSandroba, of the people ON the Jackal wagon, who do you feel is most likely to be scum?
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VisceraEyes
United States21171 Posts
Sandroba, of the people ON the Jackal wagon, who do you feel is most likely to be scum? | ||
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johnnywup
United States3858 Posts
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sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
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sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
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Tobon
United States372 Posts
On March 21 2012 11:10 VisceraEyes wrote: Sandroba, of the people ON the Jackal wagon, who do you feel is most likely to be scum? Hope you don't mind if I answer as well. sandroba - obviously town mason. Dirkzor, Snarfs - both pushed by Jackal, both long before they voted for him. likely town. xsksc - we may know a lot more here depending on whether slOosh flips town or scum. (if slOosh is scum, xsksc is likely town, if not, harder to tell). Toad_In_Pink_Dress, VisceraEyes - null. (I mean, they are both assumed town because of the Jackal wagon, but if we're taking a scum-on-Jackal-wagon as a given...) I like TIPD for scummy slightly more than VE because VE has helped drive discussion so much. johnnywup - Newb, sure, but it's interesting how Jackal and most of the rest of our potential scum were the ones who were reading him as new town and slowing down VE's early pressure. To people who know him better, is Jackal the sort of person who'd tell his scum pals at the end of the day "I'm too suspicious because of my Internet troubles, go ahead and let them lynch me"? Because I don't see johnny bussing on his own, if he was scum, but I could see it if he was directed to. (Jackal's internet troubles also fits with the johnny defense that if he's scum his buddies would've told him to shut up long before - if scum was having trouble communicating and weren't hearing from Jackal, johnny could've been nearly on his own...) That's all theory rather than evidence (but the johnny evidence has been pointed out before by others, it all depends on whether you buy it as newbieness or not). But those are my feelings right now. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
You guys are blowing this sheep / not sheep thing out of proportion. I made it clear (or at least gave my best shot at explaining it here) On March 21 2012 00:02 slOosh wrote: Lastly is the hop off the Jackal - bandwagon issue: I looked at his filter and from what I understand from the mafia games I have read, jackal himself admits that his reads are really bad day 1. Combine that with the factors that I mention and I saw that it could just be that. The reason I didn't want to sheep Sandroba was because the bandwagon was forming really fast and I was scared that he could have been mafia pulling off an easy mislynch with no repercussions. I was willing to sheep on Snarfs because I could see how he could be mafia and that wasn't a 10 minute before deadline bandwagon, which allowed for additional information input and discussion and a possible change in vote. I didn't have that luxury with Jackal and so I decided no lynch was better than a null read lynch. Now with the Jackal flip I'd be totally content in letting him direct votes and such. But before that he didn't really respond to my questions with his xsksc read and so I was unsure if this was just his style or intentionally not giving his reads, hence the hesitation to do a total sheep (opposed to partial sheep when I could see for myself why Snarfs looked somewhat suspicious). It was driven by fear that on the off chance Sandroba was scum that a Jackal mislynch would lead to a dead townie with no voting patterns. I see the same thing with the lynch on me. Everyone hopping on. Basically it becomes a game of is Sandroba right or not, and people can sheep without any reason (and are in fact doing so). People are misconstruing my stance by assuming that Sandroba was confirmed town before the night flip - I didn't know that. If it was stupid to suspect that than I guess I'm stupid - but that doesn't make me scum. As promised are my reads on Nemesis and Tobon: Nemesis: I really like his play early D1. He calls out VE for a weird case on johnny and was one of the first people to defend him. On March 18 2012 10:28 Nemesis wrote: Mind explaining your vote? I think that right now you guys are jumping on an easy bandwagon. johnnywup is a new player and this is his first game. Newbie mafias are more likely to lurk and be wishy washy with their post as you say. But he did take a stance that he thought jackal was town, which means that he is not avoiding the issue at all. Pushes for information, notes who is inactive and points out bad logic when he sees it. On March 19 2012 01:39 Nemesis wrote: UMM NO, that is very horrible reasoning. People get defensive no matter what their role is when put under pressure. Take a look at chaoser in Mafia Factory where he was town and got lynched for being overly defensive. You are doing the same stupid shit here. On March 19 2012 07:35 Nemesis wrote: ##Vote: Probulous As I said before, you are usually a lot more helpful as non-scum, and you are usually a bit spammy with your posts. But in here you've only posted once. Furthermore he had a scum read on VE, one of the more active posters, and is very vocal and clear about it. With his last post where he suspects me, I don't think that is indicative of scummy bandwagoning. I think scum have done a decent job painting the situation in an unfavourable light to me and he is reading it wrong. Or that I could have done something very stupid and it would be reasonable to suspect me on that I suppose. Tobon: Newbie town feeling. Often posts and responds to questions / things that aren't directly addressed to him, giving off a feeling of enthusiasm and transparency. Asks questions when confused - not afraid to post his thoughts. Concerns right now: TIPD is lurking hard and threw a vote on me without any reasoning. As it is I think the whole town is lynching me, so you will find scum on that list - and this is the same concern I had about jackal lynch - there isn't any voting pattern analysis but people sheeping and bandwagoning without repercussions. Actually if anything I ask you guys start pressuring those bandwagoning hard. Seriously I don't know what to do when confirmed town Sandroba wants to lynch me and everyone is bandwagoning without much reasoning; if my death will help clear the air and get town refocused again than so be it. But don't let scum bandwagon for free. Pressure them. | ||
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johnnywup
United States3858 Posts
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johnnywup
United States3858 Posts
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Dirkzor
Denmark1944 Posts
On March 21 2012 07:13 VisceraEyes wrote: Also I was roleblocked. Apparently having massive thread-presence is some kind of blue-tell. lmao Got to go now, but bringing this back to light! 2 roleblocks now... | ||
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Toad_in_Pink_Dress
United States50 Posts
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johnnywup
United States3858 Posts
and either sloosh or VE are basically confirmed scum now, right? | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21171 Posts
From town to scummy, going down. Green indicates no doubt. VisceraEyes - towniest town that ever towned a town sandroba - obviously mason, made Jackal lynch happen Snarfs - secured Jackal lynch. johnnywup - constant activity, not cracking under pressure indicating sincerity, hasn't raised a fuss about being called "jdub" Dirkzor - Jackal came back and, in my opinion, attempted to shift the vote to a townie. I don't think given his activity that he would have tried to shift the vote onto a scumbuddy to save himself. TIPD - second most vocally suspicious of Jackal D1. Switch to Jackal felt like genuine townie consolidation. xsksc - not afraid to give opinions, interacts with SlOosh and myself the most... So I guess the most likely to be scum would either be xsksc or TIPD? It's a tough call, everyone on the Jackal lynch is a SHINING STAR after going back with knowledge that Jackal is scum. Ultimately, I'm now more convinced that scum were playing for no-lynch yesterday. Several people on the wagon expressed doubt, and it would have been just too easy to cite "fear of speed/lack of resistance" and jump off. All the remaining scum can be found off the Jackal wagon. Tell me if this is too much of an intuitive leap. | ||
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xsksc
United Kingdom1044 Posts
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johnnywup
United States3858 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21171 Posts
This isn't so much about the fact that you didn't sheep sandroba. Games don't have that many blind sheep. Jackal made himself suspicious enough to gather that many votes by being inactive. The fact that you were willing to "sheep" sandroba on a Snarfs lynch "because town sandroba is boss", yet when sandroba calls for someone else, you vote for "no-lynch" over a null read is suspicious no matter what you give as your reasoning. Jackal was suspiciously silent, and this lynch didn't happen just because sandroba waved a magic wand. Your reasoning for not being on the lynch is inconsistent with your previous votes. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21171 Posts
On March 21 2012 16:03 johnnywup wrote: What's everyones take on TIPD? They haven't contributed that much and have been fairly inactive.. As I said, TIPD was one of the first to actually agree that Jackal is at least moderately suspicious this game. The only thing I'm put off by is how little actual effort appears to be coming from the hydra - like, a bunch of their posts imply that they've been in communication and have reached a conclusion, but there's never any reasoning behind it...just the conclusion. | ||
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johnnywup
United States3858 Posts
On March 20 2012 04:08 Toad_in_Pink_Dress wrote: We disagree about johnnywub, (BL thinks he scummy LB thinks the case against him was empty and that he is not scummy) We both think Jackal looks about as scummy as he typically does BL thinks Tobon looks scummy and LB cant find a reason to disagree LB thinks that scum tend to call out bullshit on claims and that we should lynch one of the first people to respond to a Vanilla town or mason claim, so that is Nemesis or Probulous. + Show Spoiler + laya was also pissed that BL called johnwubs vt claim suspicious I am sure BL agrees about this last point /laya this post was the first post by TIPD indicating suspicion on jackal...only 2 hours before the "bandwagon" started.. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21171 Posts
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johnnywup
United States3858 Posts
so yeah, sandrobas vote. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21171 Posts
On March 19 2012 19:03 Toad_in_Pink_Dress wrote: My town reads atm are VE - Contributing lots, active and pushing discusson sandro & jcarl - mason layabout - ofc what the hell is with me I'm not sure of Probulous but I think a DT should check him I think, Scummy in my opinion reads: Tobon - Look at his filter, he took easy potshots at the lurkers, ezpz way for reasonning as to reads and avoiding attention, oh and planning to sheep =_=. On the lurkers, I think we should keep on the pressure, I'm waiting on Jackal cause I never get a correct read on him(except in purgatory mafia mwahahahhaha) I'm gonna read up some past games of him as town and scum to compare, for reference to anyone that is going to compare Mafia, I will use MLP Mafia for his town games and TL Mafia XLVIII as for his scum games. I'm gonna talk about this with my other part as soon as I can. I'm gonna vote Tobon for now, I'm willing to switch to another person if a better on arises but for now, my eyes are on Tobon. ##Vote: Tobon /blue <3 <3 <3 I was referring to the bolded, but I did think the post you quoted was earlier in the day too. | ||
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