TL Mafia LII: JubJub Mafia

On March 09 2012 11:36 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Hmm... it's a bit complex setup but nothing too hard.

I'm looking forward to this, I'll clear some time for Saturday night.

On March 11 2012 13:19 Jitsu wrote:
That meme is some good stuff. I love you Jackal.

So, let's get this ball rolling, then.

I'm not sure I want to comment on Lurkers or anything yet. Looking at the player list, I think everyone will have a decently good job of staying active enough to contribute to a pro-town atmosphere. No one really stands out to me as a lurking player, so enough of that.

Also, this is going to be pretty much a direct rip from my first post in Storm. It's something that I think should set the mood for town discussion.

I hate liars, unless there is a clear and logical reason to do so (blue prolonging his anonymity, ect.), anyone lying should (and will) be 100% held accountable for the actions they decided to run with. Does anyone in anyway disagree with this, and if so, why?

I will hold myself to the same standard, and anyone who is found blatantly lying, crossing stories, anything of that sort is going to be pushed by me, and i'd like to assume that the majority of the town players can agree with me on that.

On March 11 2012 14:05 Mattchew wrote:
i will not be using the pm function until atleast day 2 or 3 when I have a better feel for everyone.

I will be announcing to the thread who I decide to PM with when I do, and if someone adds me I will announce that as well. I think we should all partake in this practice

On March 11 2012 14:09 gumshoe wrote:


I dont think we should have to announce who were pming, but I do think we should all say when we have at least two people who have decided to pm us. Why? Because I dont think everyone should be pming the one guy who we all think is a great townie, everyone should have 4 contacts ideally, that way the spread of information is even and we have a better chance to gain more information as opposed to having everyone pming one guy. Of course that is optional and I wont suggest that you announce who has decided to pm you, just tell us when you have two contacts so we can keep the spread of pm lines even.

On March 11 2012 14:44 Mattchew wrote:
why not sheth... go something to hide? don't wanna slip that you said something to your scum teammate?

he instead first brings up a list of random people that he thinks would be lynchable in my shitty circumstance

On March 12 2012 08:30 VisceraEyes wrote:
Don't worry everybody, I've arrived. The game can start now.

I'm reading through, but I can already tell that Caller is going to rub me the wrong way. I see we've moved past the LaL discussion, that's a plus.

At a glance I'd say I'm disinclined to vote Jackal today.

Further details to come. Just letting everyone know I'm here and that I'm lurking hard. Smooches.

On March 12 2012 15:03 Bill Murray wrote:
@doctorh, what are the reasons you like from curu? I'm catching up, and I value your opinion. That is also why I am sort of sheeping you. You saw what I saw out of gumshoe, switched when that wagon wasn't going anywhere for some reason, and probably found a good one here.

I remember Caller's posting earlier on in the day being suspect. He came in like a bull, china flying everywhere, and the broken glass and debris are making it easy to see a case on him being valid.

tl;dr: catching up, asking questions, can see caller being scum

On March 12 2012 15:36 Bill Murray wrote:
top 2 suspects are jitsu and layabout, but i'm voting for caller... hmmm... sorry to spam, but something must be wrong with my brain. I'm going to switch my vote to jitsu, actually.

On March 13 2012 05:42 prplhz wrote:
I see no particular reason to believe or disbelieve Jackal58's claim, it hasn't changed how I think that he's scum.

I'd really like to be around for deadline but I'm going to bed soon. I expect Jackal58 to be dead tomorrow.

@Curu There's probably a role blocker since that's the most common scum role around, and all other common bases are covered with they funky KP powers.

On March 13 2012 06:37 gumshoe wrote:
any thoughts on my bm case?

also Dh I noticed you posted a case against me way back, do you still want me to address it?

On March 13 2012 08:25 Caller wrote:

DoctorH this is why nobody is listening to you.

On March 13 2012 08:33 layabout wrote:
So this is how it is:
If Jackal is lying about his role, it should be exposed fairly soon and we would be able to lynch him if this were to happen.

If Jackal is not lying then whether his role is beneficial to town or not, he is town and we should not lynch him.

So we really do not have to lynch him.

The main problem that we face is that we are running short on time and the other candidates look green.

I think Jitsu is town. I think caller is town.
I also think that i need to sleep.
I want to post this
+ Show Spoiler [click for win] +
but it is too late for that.

Instead: DocH who of the current lynch targets would you least like to lynch?

On March 13 2012 08:29 Caller wrote:

Just because I threw a bullshit reason at you to bait scum doesn't mean you're off the hook. Just try me.

That yells sarcasm to me a lot more then it screams scum.

Wiggles brings up a good point. prphlz is a player that wouldn't just happen to miss the name of someone that posted. It's almost like prphlz was waiting for Curu to post something, realized he fucked up, then tried to cover it.

It's not surprising that prphlz mistakes Curu for Caller, and then 10 minutes later, Curu ACTUALLY comes out with a small little case against Jackal as well.

Shit reeks.

##vote prphlz

Not voting: Jitsu, Mr. Wiggles, [UoN]Sentinel, deconduo

On March 14 2012 03:40 Palmar wrote:
hey drh, who did you mason and why?

On March 14 2012 03:52 prplhz wrote:
So what did you find out about VisceraEyes in PMs?

On March 14 2012 03:58 Palmar wrote:
prplhz asked a valid question, why do you not answer it?

On March 14 2012 07:14 prplhz wrote:
Jackal58 you fucking shoot tonight if you're actually town.

On March 14 2012 10:49 Mattchew wrote:

when have you ever seen him not spam or atleast with a lot of posts?

On March 14 2012 13:32 Curu wrote:
Why wouldn't scum claim Dreamflower? BECAUSE THEY CAN'T FAKE IT. IF DREAMFLOWER SHOOTS THEY CONFIRM THEMSELF.

Jackal refuses to shoot. Is it that fucking hard to understand? He is refusing to do the thing that makes the role believable.

Like I don't understand how this can be made any clearer to you.

On March 15 2012 04:55 Jitsu wrote:
Hey DocH, why are you voting for Kurumi and not prplhz?

On March 15 2012 04:50 prplhz wrote:

What is a scumslip?

I involuntarily cringe every time someone says "scumslip".

On March 15 2012 05:31 Jitsu wrote:


Yet, you thought prplhz had an equally telling scumslip, where he was near "confirmed," and this is also the same game where you wanted to hang me for posting against what I perceived as a scumslip as well, right?

Cool.

On March 14 2012 07:19 DoctorHelvetica wrote:


Confirmed scum?

He said a bunch of times he's gonna shoot you. This means you both die if you're town since you have no guaranteed means of protection. If you're scum you can block and hit jackal which means you don't die and he never gets to claim his hit implicating you. Nice slip bro.

On March 15 2012 09:22 prplhz wrote:
DoctorHelvetica is a guy who has a set of opinions that he considers unequivocally true and consequently the people who disagree with him the loudest has to be scum.

I don't really think you're scum anymore.

On March 15 2012 11:21 gumshoe wrote:
caller do you have a dt ability like sentinal say?

On March 16 2012 04:54 Caller wrote:
of course he's mad he's mad that he's getting caught and is trying to cover it up with indignant anger

On March 16 2012 13:38 Mr. Wiggles wrote:

What role?

On March 16 2012 13:52 Mr. Wiggles wrote:

He said VE was a kingmaker, and made him king for the day. That means he gets to pick a lynch of someone on the day where he's king. It's not his role, unless this is a different kind of kingmaker, and even then, it doesn't say anything about his alignment, as VE made him.


What did you say to him to get him to think that Jackal was a good lynch? Why did you think Jackal was a good lynch? Did it have anything to do with Kurumi's roleclaim? Why do you think he believed you? Would you mind sharing the relevant chat logs?

On March 18 2012 01:41 Abenson wrote:
Well, Caller looks like the best choice atm...
Voting now.

On March 21 2012 05:15 sandroba wrote:
From what I gather the most accepted theory is that kurumi was claimed traitor that mafia found and thus flipped red.

@docH how come you never claimed you pm'ed kurumi and he kept trolling when you were pushing for his lynch? Didn't you think that would make the case stronger? Do you have any reasoning to have kept that info hidden until decon outted it in thread?

I wouldn't mind a abenson lynch instead of wiggles.

On March 21 2012 07:04 jaybrundage wrote:
Curu no one is confirmed town till they die including you. People may have a town read on you but its just that a read

On March 21 2012 07:09 jaybrundage wrote:
hey doc get on Abenson stop trolling

On March 21 2012 11:03 sandroba wrote:

docH what exactly is your reason for thinking JB is scum. I get that you think he is not confirmed town, but I filtered you and saw no reasons as to why JB is scum.

On March 21 2012 11:05 sandroba wrote:
Also this reasoning for not voting abenson because you think JB is scum for no clear reason goes directly against what you said in your previous post that mafia may be bussing left and right. Shouldn't you, according to your own beliefs, look at abenson individually and decide whether he is likely scum or not, and vote accordingly?

On March 21 2012 12:33 Mattchew wrote:
with the way abenson has played i wouldnt be surprised... bussing him wouldn't shock me at all

On March 22 2012 06:18 layabout wrote:
when did drH pick him?

On March 21 2012 15:43 jaybrundage wrote:
I haven't called my self confirmed town in ages. And to be frank I don't care if you think I'm town or mafia at this point. You're playing sloppy, tunneling a townie all game is really making you look bad. Read my post's from the perspective of a townie or mafia and see which one makes the most sense. You tunneling like this is really hurting your play.

I think I have done well to establish what I want to do this game, and that is lynch scum. Unless you think I'm willing to bus every single one of my teammates. Then it's unlikely I'm scum. You have been tunneling me hard just like Matt.

Doc do you not think that Abenson is scum. Do you think he has been a contributing townie?

In response to ET I PM'd prplhz which I claimed already and posted the PM's to Prlphz and JayBrundage's Pms I also PM'd Curu and claimed to him. Because why not.

ET I was looking thru Layabout's PM's because I wasn't sure if he might be scum. But at the moment I'm getting a null-read.
And then there was BM but Palmar checked him. But I still stand by my read's on Abenson and Katina. And Katina was my original read silly XD. She has been scummy from the get go. And her case just gets clearer and clearer. I'm pretty damn certain she is scum. Ill be posting a compilation of my cases on Katina soon. I think we should all just go for Abenson and then start talking about who we should lynch next. We can't the discussion die down.

On March 21 2012 13:14 EchelonTee wrote:

this

I'm the one who prty much initiated the Abenson lynch (even though a lot of people agreed with me without expressing mcuh on the topic earlier...), so JB being on it isn't so much a bus, as a "vote for nearest lynch".

btw when I said @layabout any scum hunting, that was meant to be @jaybrundage, mbad. JB you said last night that you were going to be looking through filters, dyou have any original reads, or is it still Katina-Abenson at this point?

On March 22 2012 07:07 jaybrundage wrote:
I know I'm town. So your tunneling a townie is bad. But your right me lynching scum and pushing is my reads is really scummy >.>

I haven't played meek at all this entire game. My first post was voting for Rg because i didn't like his play. You call me sheeping Palmar? Lol I thought Palmar might be scum for a long while.

Doc you act like im confirmed scum. When this game ends and I'm town. You can just see how bad your read was.

I have pushed lynches on Kurumi and I was one of the first to vote for Caller (wasn't to sure on him tho)

The funniest part is that we have the same reads and you still think im scum. Pretty funny stuff.

We are not lynching me period get over it. Would you be willing to lynch Katina tomorrow? Because that's the lynch i would like.

Almost forgot Ill try to compile a case on Katina. Im so tired tho

On March 22 2012 09:14 sandroba wrote:
@docH you promised you'd explain why you think JB is scum and I still see nothing. All I see is useless argument going in circles. If you think the guy is scum you don't need to convince him, you present a case for us. Please be more objective.

Mafia have a one time guess to figure him out and if correct, can communicate with him. The traitor also has a one time guess to join the mafia as well. If at any point he can pm the host with one less than the total mafia count mafia correct out of the total count (i,e 3 mafia correct out of 4 guesses with 4 mafia alive), he will join with the mafia

On March 23 2012 12:27 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Did Caller claim both of his picks, or only Sentinel? Also, I think scum might have been PMing people fishing for the traitor, just look at Caller and Sentinel.

On March 24 2012 04:27 deconduo wrote:


Regardless of whether you think I'm town or not, my role has been pretty much confirmed. On top of that, no one has said anything in the spreadsheet is wrong, so you can check it yourself.

As for Kurumi, I find it very difficult to believe that he wasn't the traitor.

-He thought Jackal was scum, so he made up the dreamer role to defend him from getting lynched. This would absolutely never have happened if he was scum, as he would know Jackal was town.
-His made up dream was riddled with grammatical errors. Why not get Caller or any other teammate to spellcheck it first if he was scum. Why would his team even LET him post it.
-The rattata post which was blatantly claiming traitor.

Also given how Caller tried to recruit sentinel, its fairly obvious that scum were going to pm the traitor to make sure before recruiting them.

On March 25 2012 03:15 Curu wrote:
I think there's a very solid reason sandroba was shot and I was left alone. sandroba is a better player, definitely, but he was quite disinterested in the game. I had considered DrH almost certain Town while sandroba was getting pretty suspicious of him in thread and in PMs.

That I haven't been shot yet I think shows that I was on the wrong track so I'm going to with sandroba's read.

On March 25 2012 03:25 Bill Murray wrote:
Dr.H have you claimed?

On March 26 2012 02:46 Curu wrote:
I feel like Katina is Town now, considering the Abenson/Wiggles flips.

It's a bunch of things. DrH's PM explanation is awful, considering he Masoned VisceraEyes as well who he felt was likely Town. There is absolutely, positively, 100% no reason for any Town player to ever want to Mason Kurumi who is going to be the most useless player in any game not containing sinani.

His sudden and random hostility towards jaybrundage with no reason whatsoever besides that he was calling himself Town. He can come up with no reason to actually call jaybrundage scum when asked about it.

There was also a KP missing the second night, originally I had thought it was because Palmar got hit and prplhz Medic protected him (prplhz was a Busy Medic thus didn't know if he protted his target or not) but I think it's very probable Bill Murray was covered. His sudden influx of activity, the fact that DrH didn't show any of this downright hostility towards him for calling himself confirmed Town, and his retarded reasoning.

He voted DrH following Katina/deconduo/etc, as well as following the popular vote without any reasoning or posts on every other candidate, but all of a sudden come lylo he wants to lead the Town? Not happening.

jay Katina is probably Town, if we lynch her we lose. As I said I am not moving my vote, I am 100% certain DocH is scum, as certain as I was on Kurumi/Caller. Palmar and sandroba both suspected DrH, please trust us on this one.

On March 26 2012 04:04 Katina wrote:


You are wrong about your last sentence. Not every person I have pushed has been town. That will be clear once DrH flips. That's not really an indicator of whether someone is mafia or not.

I think Jay might be mafia because he has been pushing for me all game and basically ignoring everything else that is going on. I think the mafia is probably telling Jay to keep pushing me so he doesn't mess anything up. He really hasn't done anything else and has ignored all the big cases. Jay also said he would make a case against me.... I have yet to see one.

Jay is mafia or big JubJub,

On March 26 2012 12:18 deconduo wrote:
Dr. H is scum, he never picked to PM Kurumi:




##Vote DoctorHelvetica

USA USA USA

On March 27 2012 06:08 layabout wrote:
Doc, why don't you tell us what you would like to do today?

Would you like to comment on the pile of bodies that told us to lynch you?

On March 28 2012 01:53 Katina wrote:
DrH only has two votes at the moment? We need the votes on him to start coming in.

DrH hasn't been defending himself. He first shrugged off my case against him then he said it was the only one with a genuine analysis. As said before he is throwing around a lot of doubt. He hasn't been contributing anything useful even in the most recent days. DrH said his life was hectic but he posted about forty posts on day one. For someone who claims to have an active life he had time to make ~40 posts day 1 and continues to be one of the most active players. His actions are inconsistent and don't add up.

On March 28 2012 03:09 layabout wrote:
Dr.H when you realised that we were likely at lylo what did you resolve to do to ensure town's victory?

On March 12 2012 09:01 jaybrundage wrote:
Responding to Layabout

There's nothing wrong with putting a vote out there just for the hell of it.

I dont like Rg playstyle (lying like 6 times as town) He even expressed he lied alot
as town so he could get away with lying alot as mafia. We are unlikely to get a mafia day one
So lynching a bad townie isn't to bad IF we choose to lynch him. I was mostly fishing for reactions. Didn't get to many sadly

I say i do agree with lynching liars and Lurkers. However i suggest we use them as guidelines. TL towns dont lynch liars often enough and pushing lurkers to talk and contribute forces mafia to contribute. And in the process mess up

Sharing PMs or not Sharing PMs both have pros and cons. To act like one is simply pro mafia is dumb. I think they both are viable ways to proceed.

Also I put the list of players out. To try to elicit responses from them. I dont want to lost because half our player base isn't contirbuted it doesn't matter if they town or mafia. A town that contributes is a good town. (not spam tho)

I want the lurkers to come out T_T

I dont know about the jackal lynch we could of found a scum. Ill have to go over him. I dont know his meta to well tbh tho.

On March 12 2012 15:18 jaybrundage wrote:
Doc I understand where you coming from. I am not scumhunting. I honestly don't do well day 1.

And i as you dont feel confident in my reads to push anything atm. I still think the jackal lynch makes sense even if mostly based on meta. I also think that our lurkers need to speak up a bit more.

On March 14 2012 08:40 jaybrundage wrote:
Hm if this is Town VE I don't know quite what to say I have only seen VE's scum play. XD

Glad Palmar is here funny thing i only seen Palmar's town play XD (And one pro town third party)

Palmar are you going to claim your DT check or not :o.

Tommorow I think we should shoot into one of the scummy lurkers.

On March 15 2012 08:01 jaybrundage wrote:
Hey Doc are you scum?

You should PM and tell me your role

On March 16 2012 13:49 jaybrundage wrote:
Doc I started the Kurumi lynch are you kidding me?

At this point i should be confirmed town. I was the first to try to lynch kurumi.

ROfl if you think im scum im dont knwo what to say

On March 16 2012 14:23 jaybrundage wrote:
WAIT how is Palmar getting cred for the lynch i pushed. This doesnt make any sense. You guys are delusional. You are assuming Palmar is town based on nothing. He hasn't dont shit this game. Besides kill two townies.

Saying Palmar is confirmed town is pretty retarded. He's not He needs to start pushing good lynches and start doing work as town.

DocH i think your town because you were pushing the Kurumi lynch with me. But your not making sense.

Cant a get a single townie that can be transparent.

I want to lynch Katina next. She was trying to kill node. who was green. And then she tried to get people to look at cases and not lynch Kurumi.

If people think im scum rofl moslty you DocH you think im scum for what reason. Starting a lynch on a scum?

Post a case on me. This case will probably determine to me if your scum or not. So please put some work in it.

On March 16 2012 16:46 jaybrundage wrote:

First off I'm not begging for town cred. I'm demanding it.
I did push Kurumi. But don't worry hopefully I'll get another scum tomorrow. Speaking of scum your looking pretty scummy there buddy. Want to go on the docket?

Lets see didnt vote for Kurumi check. Trying to discredit a townie check.

Let me ask you think ET do you think Katina is scummy and why.

Im assuming your answer is going to be no because you know your her scum buddy.

And um yea thats about it :D

On March 28 2012 08:11 Katina wrote:
To address some random issues. I have not been activitly lurking and I have not been playing in pm land as I said above anyone who I have been pming with thinks I'm mafia. Thus my willingness to talk to people in pm's has deminished.

I have contributed my reads the entire game not just when I have been pressured. My case against DrH came way before I was even a candidate for being lynched.

Infact Billmurray. DrH is the one who has posted analysis under pressure. As seen by his recent case against Jay. As Layabout pointed out his case is very convoluted and desperate. DrH had promised analysis in the past three days and have only chosen now to give it.

The problem with DrH is that he has refuted nearly all the arguments against him with the fact that he's been busy. He has done little to respond to the points that he's been inconsistent and clearly not acting the way he usually does when he is town. It's not the fact that he says he's been busy because everyone has a life. It's the fact that it's really all he has said. As I mentioned before he never really responded to my case. At first he just brushed it off as whatever and just recently just claimed it was a good analisys.

On March 29 2012 02:22 Kurumi wrote:

A Coroner spin-off. Considering it was a half-flip game, an information role checking dead people was likely(or, in that case confirming roles being present). The Dreamflower knowledge was logical - I defended Jackal D1 without a claim and backed it up D2. Nothing wrong here.