Storm Mafia

On February 21 2012 07:18 Blazinghand wrote:


I don't like this sort of policy lynch. I don't like policy lynches in general-- they are/should be a last resort.

On February 21 2012 08:00 redFF wrote:
I know, its just blazinghand seemed to expressing familiarity with them.


I'm not denying that good cases are made day 1. It's just that more often than not, its a townie lynch. I disagree. There are points where a player is so useless and terrible that they are objectively bad.

It creates early day 1 discussion, something I think it has done this game, so that's one good thing. It also forces the person to post and post constructively, something they may not do otherwise. It doesn't only create arguments about whether a policy lynch is justified, it creates discussion about different things, as we have already seen. Yes it is, so why not get rid of dead weight. I don't disagree, a policy lynch is simply a suggestion. No shit, policy lynching doesn't FORCE EVERYONE TO STOP ANALYSING. yes but it helps.


derp

On February 21 2012 08:51 redFF wrote:
No I still like and would be down with a policy lynch but I know realistically it probably won't happen.

On February 21 2012 09:59 wherebugsgo wrote:
VE stfu you suck

Everyone else sucks marginally less ATM. Mostly chaoser is doing the least sucking.

Blazinghand learn to play

I have to program for a few hours so I'll bbl. Till then I suggest you all brush up on Ver's guide since the last page has made my eyes bleed.

On February 21 2012 10:14 redFF wrote:
I don't see how I'm pushing scum agendas. What does that even mean?

Ah, wbg is here, awesome.

I'm remembering why I stopped playing here a couple months ago lol.

On February 21 2012 10:14 VisceraEyes wrote:


Ho boy, this is good play here. GOOD play. Let me count the ways.

1) Throwing out random insults. While I can appreciate the occasional well-deserved jibe, just saying someone "sucks" is...not productive.

2) Buddying up to chaoser. Apparently I suck - but I don't know why and Bugs' post does nothing to explain it. But chaoser is the only one NOT sucking - let's explore that. chaoser was the first one to jump on-board redFF's PL of Tyrran, and besides red himself has been the first one to jump off it as well. Furthermore, chaoser has spent a fair amount of time defending redFF against my accusations by agreeing with him that I am being 'hypocritical'....except, as it turns out this was based on faulty information that stems from APPARENTLY misreading the thread (thinking I said something DocH actually said). So as it turns out, chaoser is doing MORE sucking than several others in-thread already.

3) "I have to program for a few hours so I'll bbl." - WBG I guess this means he wasn't programming before, but is now? So where has he been during all this time? Why not stop by and tell me what a dick I am BEFORE I called him out for not being in-thread yet? Why not come in and defend redFF if my case was so bad last page? Your guess is obviously as good as mine, but I suspect his has something to do with sharing an alignment with a certain someone the last page has been discussing.

4) "...since the last page has made my eyes bleed." - WBG So....I guess he thinks redFF is town or something? Or he just thinks my argument is shit? Or he thinks the last page is some kind of stigmata? I have no idea. He's just tossing doubt around as if he's some kind of authority. Guess what guys - THIS IS HIS FIRST POST. HE HASN'T EARNED THE RIGHT TO CALL ANYONE BAD YET IN THIS GAME BECAUSE HE HASN'T DONE SHIT HIMSELF.

5) (and most importantly)

......NO U

On February 21 2012 10:33 chaoser wrote:


yes. i take it back, i misread. I dunno why WBG is buddying me though. I think I'm playing decently well though, but I think you're doing better (aka I think you're townine ATM).

On February 21 2012 10:43 wherebugsgo wrote:


sup

##vote chaoser

On February 21 2012 10:48 chaoser wrote:
i'm not buddying you? I'm giving a town read. I didn't realize giving out town reads was buddying. we can argue about the usefulness of giving out town reads though.

also, i am watching the knicks game, why am i not scum jackal =[

On February 21 2012 10:54 wherebugsgo wrote:


redFF=bad=I have no idea what his alignment is atm. If you want a general idea of how I deal with redFF, look at Resurrection (in which I call him bad repeatedly and then actually defend him from the onslaught of Ace) or at XLVII where I completely ignore him.

He was opposite alignment in those two games and honestly I could barely tell the difference. I guess part of that stems from not wanting to read/decipher his posts.

Since I believe redFF is going to be comparatively unreadable to some of the other players here (read: syllo, kita, chaoser, you, RoL, Jackal, Toad, risk) I think it's more fruitful for us to be pushing players who will react in ways we expect them to react depending on their alignments.

As of now, yes, that means I think chaoser is scummy because he called it strange for me to buddy him and then turned around and buddied you in the next sentence.

Remember: need to know basis. Why does anyone need to know chaoser's town reads?

On February 21 2012 11:27 redFF wrote:

You are voting me for "using the pushing of a policy lynch as a way of Hollowly Contributing to Thread Attempting to Appear Pro-Town"

Since the whole "Hollowly Contributing to Thread Attempting to Appear Pro-Town" is just your interpretation of me pushing a policy lynch, I'm fairly sure that me saying you are voting me for pushing a policy lynch is accurate.

On February 21 2012 11:42 Jackal58 wrote:
Dear redFF and WBG
You both suck.
Sincerely,
Jackal58

On February 21 2012 11:49 BloodyC0bbler wrote:


I endorse this statement fully and from the bottom of my heart I thank you for letting me know I am not insane.

Why are we debating Policy lynches this early into the day? Seriously? This isn't a game with a player like 2010 bill murray who spams while being a dick, this isn't a game with a mod hating spammer named showtime. Instead we have for the most part a fairly solid crew devoid of spammy trolls. If you want to lynch someone for being bad, wait till they start being bad / scumlike, dont lynch them for shits and giggles.

Policy lynching people on retarded reasoning is worse than RNG votes for early discussion. Cut the nonsense out. Anyone who keeps talking about it from this post on be warned.

as a side note, VE since you are making moderate sense for the first time ever I have to give you props for impressing me two games in a row.

On February 21 2012 12:03 BloodyC0bbler wrote:


Honestly I think he may be suffering from something like a bat to the back of the head. That or a level of arrogance unseen since showtime. As it stands now short of recommending a terrible idea and being a retarded troll (which is a smiteworthy offense if he keeps it up) I see him more as someone to mock / ignore than take seriously. I know I am moderately guilty of this via my last few posts, however anyone continuing the trend of useless discussion / just trading insults with redff are most likely not playing with town interests in heart. There are a few players already guilty of this obviously.

I am currently more intrigued at the people who have let policy discussion run so damn rampant for even this short a duration of a game who (in my mind) should know better.

On February 21 2012 12:12 redFF wrote:
If i made you think i was town doesn't that make me good town?
/food for thought

2 players have been on the 2 major wagons of early day 1, chaoser and kita. Betting there's one scum in there.

On February 21 2012 12:15 BloodyC0bbler wrote:


its what? 5 hours into the day? I would like to believe redff isn't this horrendous as scum to be caught this quickly. However that is wifom with someone of his experience. The only read I have on him as of now is Bad. Bad town or bad mafia. Hell, I think chaoser is also bad for defending posting town reads as a viable move at this stage in the game. It is only at all useful if people are posting clear scum reads along with clear town reads to make them fully accountable rather than "contributing" without doing much.

As for coloring it up to policy discussion, the main point you first raised (I will re-read to see what your entire argument is in exact detail so i stress the first point i saw) was his push on tyrran via policy of being bad. Factor in the mass level of general annoyance with him via his recent behaviour outside of game it is not outside the realms of possibility people are "policy" pushing him based on him being a total wad.

On February 22 2012 03:39 redFF wrote:
Given everything that has happened today, myself Dirkzor and Tyrran are all very safe options. What do you think about kita, toad, and chaoser ve?

On February 22 2012 04:04 Toadesstern wrote:
are you willing to explain and tell me why you want, or at least why you would be okay to lynch me VE?

On February 22 2012 04:04 redFF wrote:
I don't really care about chaoser at this stage, haven't paid much attention to him tbh.

Layabout is bad because he berated dirkzor for not finding 3+scum and hasn't stated a read all game.

On February 22 2012 06:19 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:

101 ways to miss the point by VisceraEyes.


Remember this post? He was jesting at what you said lol about him making fun of you. Way to get pious over something you caused.

On February 22 2012 06:39 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:

Just making an observation d00d, I found it noteworthy. Plus when I was reading it said we were only on page 15, when I posted that it was 19. I thought I had f5ed recently. But hey, care to explain why you created a situation to get indignant in?

On February 22 2012 06:37 wherebugsgo wrote:
syllo can you give me your opinion on redFF?

I think I was completely wrong about him.

On February 22 2012 06:46 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:

Yes actually, that's what I was thinking. But I should probably just assume you didn't realize he was referencing a joke. I think inventing reasons to attack someone is a bit out of your skill range.

On February 22 2012 06:49 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:

JUST SAYING BRO, YOU SACRIFICED YOURSELF IN HAMMER WITHOUT USING YOUR POWER.

On February 22 2012 05:55 redFF wrote:
VOTE DIRKZOR THEN CHOWSER

On February 22 2012 07:05 wherebugsgo wrote:
...but first of all, get the sand out of your crotch and stop thinking everything's a conspiracy to make you confused.

On February 22 2012 07:05 wherebugsgo wrote:
...and yes, I'm going back on everything I said earlier.

On February 22 2012 07:13 redFF wrote:
I don't see how thats scummy VE, chowser has been attacking dirkzor for a while and his attacks on him seem a lot stronger than his attacks on me have been.

On February 22 2012 07:19 wherebugsgo wrote:


about redFF.

he's too much of a liability to town atm to keep him alive, and everything he's been done can actually be explainable from a scu perspective.

Almost none of it can be explained from a town perspective. When I reread the thread this morning I took note to look for redFF's motivations for the things he was posting and I can't really justify anything he's done from town perspectve. I was wrong; I now think he is readable.

Tell me, do you think a blue claim @ 5 votes, 24 hours into day 1 is something town would do?

On February 22 2012 07:25 redFF wrote:

heh, if i claimed roleblocked erryday then feel free to lynch me.


I don't know what else you would want me to do? Not claim and let town lynch a powerful blue role day 1?

On February 22 2012 07:42 redFF wrote:
I usually enjoy mafia but wbg has made this game incredibly unfun. wbg if you're sole goal in playing has been to make me mad, consider it accomplished. im out.

inb4 lol, AtE, drama queen, w/e, you're a fucking dick and you actively drive people from this forum.

peace.

On February 22 2012 11:14 prplhz wrote:
Okay I don't think that redFF is scum because he's been pretty out there. The scummiest he has done in my opinion is his claim which was oddly timed. Right now he's a terribly easy lynch, because we'll have to lynch him at some point. I'd like to see wherebugsgo explain how everything redFF has done can be explained by scum motivation and can not be explained by town motivation. The worst thing about this whole redFF thing is that the lynch is so easy that everybody can just pile onto him and then the day is kinda ruined, we aren't going to find anybody else. I don't think that redFF is scum because he's just been putting himself too much in the line of fire.

BloodyC0bbler isn't taking syllogism's accusations seriously (for some reason, nobody is even though syllogism is pretty good at mafia). There are more in the accusations than just "BloodyC0bbler doesn't have a read 5 hours in", he is saying that your mindset doesn't seem focused on finding scum. I totally agree with this. He specifically quotes this:



You see that the discussion is bad, you say that people should try to find whoever is responsible for this, but you never do this. You are the one guilty of strawman arguing when you insinuate that syllogism's accusation was just based around how you didn't have any reads 5 hours into the game.

Additionally there's plenty of bad stuff in your filter. This post where you complain about what's being discussed without providing anything of an alternative. You were just as guilty in letting the initial discussion get out of hand as those people whose existence you alluded to but never tried to find. I understand that you might not like how redFF was being a douche towards Ace but your comments on that doesn't count as a contribution. You didn't post a single read this entire game, and I don't care if anything is 5 hours into the game or whatever, reads are what push this game foward, AMIRITE?

So, BloodyC0bbler, is redFF scum or is he just best lynch because of the situation he's gotten himself in? Do you have other scum reads?

I'll vote redFF to avoid no lynch. I kinda assume that this is an extended majority lynch where we can end up in a no lynch sitaution, but the OP doesn't really say anything about that. But like, redFF probably isn't scum, come on. There's also plenty good in having him around since scum can't role block anybody else no matter redFF's alignment. The lynch today comes down to "We very likely have to lynch redFF at some point, should it be today or do we have something better?". Right now, I think it's too early to say.

On February 22 2012 12:38 kitaman27 wrote:


It was awful nice of them to turn the bumpers on just for you.

On February 22 2012 16:33 syllogism wrote:
It's not without a question; I've a quite a few town reads and out of the remaining people BC has looked worst, but despite him personally likely not being around to convince me, I will look into others today.

Also, I think that if there is a scum tracker, there is likely a town tracker as well and thus if there is another tracker out there, it might be worthwhile to counter claim redff at some point today. Tracker is a useful role, but not essential and certainly worth outing if it almost guarantees a scum lynch on day 1. Since I believe redff really is a tracker rather than just scum fake claiming, no counter claim would be relatively strong evidence of him being a town aligned tracker. Tracker is also a role that isn't easy to use, so it makes sense to be present in this setup, considering that this is supposedly a challenging one.

Redff while your outburst feels genuine, you should keep posting today.

On February 22 2012 16:47 syllogism wrote:

You are right, that is the possible weak point in the plan. I do not think that it is likely that there are two town aligned trackers, however. It's a setup with only 18 players and knowing palmar/sandroba, I don't think they would have opted to include two identical and relatively uninteresting blue roles.

On February 22 2012 16:56 wherebugsgo wrote:


did you just accuse me of tunneling chaoser?

LOL.

I guess you don't know what tunneling means. If you want to see me tunneling chaoser, look at Steamship.

On February 23 2012 03:17 prplhz wrote:
So what about the timing?

I don't have a lot of time, try read the game carefully, make a ton of notes, see that you're pushing me and I say that I'm here. Would it be more townie of me not to say that I'm here when I'm about to get lynched or what are you getting at?

I don't think that redFF is scum because his claim timing and his lack of activity was announced in the thread beforehand, his activity and putting-himself-outthere seems very townie. The wagon is also rolling too easy. It was stupid of me to say that we'd have to lynch him at some point, you have pointed out that we don't and that's a pretty simple conclusion and I support that. I think BloodyC0bbler is more scummy, but I think there might be better targets today that I'm more comfortable with. This is like Responsibility Mafia! where BloodyC0bbler was just gone, but he has been scummy so far.

On February 23 2012 03:43 Blazinghand wrote:


;_; man I don't see what the issue here is with the redFF lynch

On February 23 2012 05:19 syllogism wrote:
There's no one arguing against the BC lynch, which I guess is bad. Getting the votes hasn't been particularly easy, but still now would be the time for there to start being some resistance in terms of thread activity. I suppose some people may not be around yet and I still think the lynch is better than redff one.

On February 23 2012 05:36 Jackal58 wrote:


Try reading instead of listening to the voices man. I know red has been online since this.

On February 23 2012 05:42 Dirkzor wrote:
I've thought about the whole RedFF thing. Whatever allignment he is doesn't matter right now. There are no indication that he wants to play. When/if he returns we can take a stance on him. Should we lynch him today we gain nothing going forward anyway so I would much rather lynch someone else.

I'm still want BH to hang. I think my case on him was pretty solid and he have done NOTHING to convince me otherwise.

I'll read up on BC now and the posts made against him. (It is Syllo, prp and who else who have made cases on him?)

On February 23 2012 05:50 layabout wrote:

Sheeping you is a vote for hypocrisy.

On February 21 2012 13:06 VisceraEyes wrote:


I'm mulling over this post.

The first thing I noticed about it is that it still doesn't answer my question. I mean, yeah. Okay. I get it. It's early in the game. But you don't even have a read on the guy? Regardless of the fact that he has almost 25% of the posts since the game started? I realize that's a gross exaggeration, but you see what I'm getting at - you should have more of a read on him than "bad" in my opinion.

The next thing I noticed is that you respond to my soft accusation of you coloring the discussion surrounding red as 'policy discussion' by boiling down the argument against him I've made to "his push on tyrran via policy is bad". I get that he's kinda a tool outside this thread, but my argument has to do with his actions/decisions in THIS thread. If anyone is voting for him on policy based on his behavior out-of-thread, that's their thing...but that's absolutely not why I'm voting for him, and that's absolutely not what the discussion for the last few pages has been about. Is it possible that people are voting him on policy? Sure I guess. Has that been the subject of discussion, like, ever? Not so much. This is why I said you "colored" the discussion recently as "policy discussion"...because by my estimation, we've been talking about lynching red because he's scum, and you come in and say "why are we still talking about policy-lynch?"

I mean, am I missing something here?

On February 23 2012 06:25 DoctorHelvetica wrote:


It's like I'm playing with Coagulation all over again. They're obnoxious but this kind of playstyle is hard to get any read from other than "annoying". The only thing that worries me is that BH seemingly hasn't contributed a single original thought or point despite posting prolifically.

On February 23 2012 06:28 BloodyC0bbler wrote:


Ok, i have to take off for work soon but as it seems people are being retarded I have to come in and defend myself. Reasons like this post are reasons I am more or less a dick this game. You just said redff is a non issue because he doesn't want to play? If he is scum he is still going to help his team and guess what else? It means you just gave him a free pass to lurk the fuck out of the game without ever contributing and not die unless he actively posts. There are no activity requirements this game and you are letting someone go with a free pass seriously.

You then paint a bullseye on me for being indifferent and not defending myself? The case against me is terrible. Wasting my time on a case that imo doesn't warrant being lynched on is something I should never have to respond to. The fact that said case is also being pushed by players who know better is even sadder.


Whats even worse is you have those same people pushing my lynch saying I am more likely scum, yet one of the major reasons for their defense (as near all of them have also defended redff), is that there was near no resistance to his lynch. Guess what? I have seen very few people defend me through this lynch yet redff has had a ton defending him.

On February 23 2012 06:30 Blazinghand wrote:
Yeah I'm going back to redFF

On February 23 2012 06:34 layabout wrote:

Saying VE is full of crap, his arguments suck and refusing to sheep VE and BH is not a defense of BC.

On February 23 2012 06:36 BloodyC0bbler wrote:



And I have counted you, syllo, prpl, drH, and more defending redff either directly or indirectly. Your point? There are far less defending me then there are on redff. Aside from general indifference I have done exactly what I said I would. Call out bad play. Redff has outright rage quit the thread after creating a clusterfuck of a day. Yet you are fine with someone actively disrupting and sabotaging a thread, but don't like when someone gets pissed off at bad play. Palmar invited people so that serious play would be done this game. I have yet to be given a game I was promised.

What did you expect me to do day 1? Have an elaborate setup based plan in a closed setup? Did you expect me to post a list of scum reads day 5 hours into the day (when you guys have primarily based your entire argument on me around). Anyone who knows my style knows that I do not do this regardless of alignment. My ability to differentiate bad town from bad mafia or mafia in general is sub par in comparison to foolishness, incog, ver, etc... You can ask them and they will confirm this. Tell me what you expected? I was promised decent play in a game that has for the most part been herp derpy. Do you really want me to pull another pyp3? That was not enjoyable for me or anyone in the game.

On February 23 2012 07:00 DoctorHelvetica wrote:

If he were a mafia tracker role or third party tracker role, it's safer to just claim what you know "your power" and not the name of the role which could be counterclaimed more easily. A scum backed up against a corner might avoid telling more lies than necessary as well.

On February 23 2012 07:10 Jackal58 wrote:
Well that was underwhelming.

On February 23 2012 07:13 wherebugsgo wrote:
I wonder if he knew that would happen and that's why he said nothing?

wtf

On February 23 2012 10:30 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
No it's not bullshit and I do believe that the points I make stand against BC and he is very very much on my radar for scum. I switched my vote because I thought red was more likely scum than BC and that if BC IS scum it'll be much more apparent by Day 2 than by Day 1. There wasn't much else to discuss with redFF and the bandwagon had taken off so much would you have preferred me to beat a dead horse?



Do you fault him for not being the one who came up with the RedFF bandwagon? What is he supposed to say about it? He's been negative and critical and unhelpful and I don't like it at all. I'm not removing suspicion from BloodyC0bbler. He justified a couple of things (his lack of assurance, understandable on day 1) enough for me to move my vote for today and see what he brings to the table tomorrow. It's really that simple.

I expect BC to be helpful and do more work and less complaining. I'm not by any means letting him off the hook. I even told him straight up that he needs to put up or die come Day 2.

On February 23 2012 10:43 wherebugsgo wrote:
I wouldn't say today was a total wash. We ended up getting rid of someone who would've given townies headaches regardless of his alignment.

I'd say that's considerably better than lynching BC and then having him flip ??? and not knowing jack shit about whether we got rid of a dangerous scum or one of the better townies in this game.

Sure, BC probably isn't the best townie ever but he's definitely better than 90% of the players in this game.

On February 23 2012 12:01 wherebugsgo wrote:


from sheerly how bad his play is I'd say he's more likely to be scum.

He's posting less than what I saw him post in purgatory (which is good) but his posts have changed in demeanor enough that I think on meta basis alone I'd call him scum.

On February 23 2012 15:11 syllogism wrote:

That whoever is mafia is really stupid for wasting a power on someone who no one is going to believe was actually mafia

On February 24 2012 06:01 wherebugsgo wrote:
I wasn't wishy washy regarding redFF, I just changed my mind.

Why so many ants in your pants, Dr. H? It seems like you're boiling over but I've given you no reason to be so nervous.

Worried about the pressure? Certainly seems like it.

On February 24 2012 07:40 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
WBG

Check his filter here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=313426&user=60039

You will notice the majority of the first page is spent calling other players bad. He spends many many many long posts describing RedFF's meta, calling him a bad player, only to come to the conclusion that this means RedFF is unreadable and thus not worth really lynching. The page ends with some of the most wishy washy play I've ever seen.



We can lynch RedFF, but it's probably not good, but then again I'm not really opposed to it but let's try something else

If the missing/no-flip/whatever it is thing is indeed a scum power, I don't think scum would unanimously support that lynch, or any lynch in the game for that matter really.



I find this post quite amusing considering WBG has called me scum for having "no backbone" and not making a super strong scum read on Day 1. Apply your own logic to your own play please.



I doubt scum redFF would publically announce "good job i took your bait" but it is a suspect post nonetheless.

WBG seems more interested in upsetting me and keeping me flustered than making a real case. This is literally the exact strategy scum devised to deal with me in Arkham City where he was scum. Radfield knew I would be a threat if somebody didn't distract/harass me because to be honest as town I am horrible under pressure and a threat otherwise. Huge reason I'm trying to slow down and keep it cool this game. Posting so much in Arkham City kept me out of the loop and distracted more than anything and I performed terribly in that game past maybe the first half of the first day.

Quotes from the AC scum QT:
"JJ, if you want to go after DocH, please do. Timezones aren't that important, and neither is getting into direct arguments... motivation is . The important thing is that post you think he is scum(and why), and try to convince others. He needs to be spending his time defending himself, and not spending his time digging around. DocH is very strong if you let him run freely."

"One of us becomes the DocH harasser. They push him from the get go, and ideally even argue with him."

"DocH is extremely solid if you let him get his feet under him, so we need to rattle him and keep him rattled. I think one of our team members goals should be to keep DocH off balance and call him scum at every turn"

(all from radfield directing the other mafia)

This "pressure" you're putting on me is bullshit. I'm asking simple questions (something that you seem to have no problem doing) and you're making it out to seem that I'm really upset and defensive. If, in fact, WBG is scum this does absolutely nothing to clear VE or RoL. In the AC quicktopic you can see WBG and others calling out and criticizing VE's play and he'd make kind of the ideal target for a bus.

It is what it is. I'll be reading more closely to determine where my first vote will go. I'm torn between RoL, WBG, and Dirkzor and really need to see how VisceraEyes and BloodyC0bbler play today.

I hope you have a real response instead of some stupid ass one liner like "you scum bro" or "wow haha so defensive you're scum" while you wait for your team to help you formulate a real response

On February 24 2012 08:13 DoctorHelvetica wrote:


I find all the mafia then second guess myself into oblivion and change all my reads to the wrong ones usually

The first half of this case is more important than the second which is a meta explanation of his behavior and thus less reliable

On February 24 2012 08:33 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Good idea.

On February 24 2012 08:50 Blazinghand wrote:


If you think that's the case, then join me and lynch BC. My case is reasonable. Maybe you think I played scummy D1, but my case is fundamentally reasonable and it cannot be denied.

On February 24 2012 08:52 Jackal58 wrote:

If that's the case cool. I'm incapable of calling you needledickthebugfucker in German.

On February 24 2012 08:54 Blazinghand wrote:


Well, believe it or not I am rather comfortable changing my vote if I should later determine him to be a town player. For now my vote is on the player who I believe is scum.

On February 24 2012 08:56 wherebugsgo wrote:
herp herp herp herp herp?

On February 24 2012 08:59 Blazinghand wrote:


Who was my vote on at the end of the day

On February 24 2012 08:46 VisceraEyes wrote:
I think Blazinghand is scum and his vote on BloodyC0bbler serves as a.....fuck, I don't know, like an ANTI-lightning rod. I think it serves to remove credibility from the wagon by his sheer presence, repulsing votes. I think this was planned.

On February 24 2012 09:07 Jackal58 wrote:

I have a hard time reading people that call me scum continuously. Syllo says I'm playing the way I always play but I need to be lynched. Kita says if he dies I'm scum. Wtf is up with that shit Kita?
Syllo has given me the heebie geebies this entire game. Even before he started calling me scum. He's not playing like the Syllo I'm used to. Townie Syllo makes cases. This Syllo is just oozing bs. Kita is not anywhere as active as I'm used to seeing him. That bugs me too.
Syllo suggested town made saves or vets were hit. I'm assuming scum have more than 1 KP. I have never seen a game here where scum failed on night one. I think the scum team is mostly inactive.
That would be BC, RoL and Kita right off the top of my head.

On February 24 2012 09:38 BloodyC0bbler wrote:


at the moment an aggressive asshat who needs to shape up or ship out.

On February 24 2012 09:51 prplhz wrote:
@VisceraEyes Don't you have better things to do that poke BloodyC0bbler? Do you think he's scum? No? Then move on.

On February 24 2012 09:57 prplhz wrote:
You used to be so mannered VisceraEyes.

On February 24 2012 10:07 wherebugsgo wrote:
VE is scummily annoying but I think BH is more concerning right now.

The fact that BH unvoted BC after one post and has so far done jack shit is indicative that he has no vested interest in actually finding scum. Indeed, in his own post he admits that the case he wrote isn't even his own case. It's like he doesn't want to take heat for pushing BC but wants to be a part of the (now seemingly dead) bandwagon.

Also what's funny is that VE is still saying BC is scum but hasn't voted him yet.

On February 24 2012 10:09 prplhz wrote:
I'm busy and I don't see much reason for me to talk unless people want my opinion in which case I'm very open about it. I have no idea what your problem is, there are several other players who are being more meek and closed and useless and scummy than I am. I don't think BloodyC0bbler is scum because his wagon could easily have gotten rolling in the last hour of yesterday and he was very close to getting lynched and I think scum would have prevented that. How do you feel about that?

On February 24 2012 10:11 wherebugsgo wrote:


if you are town you are fucking retarded for not seeing how scummy BH is right now

On February 24 2012 06:59 wherebugsgo wrote:
Okay deadline soon and class as well (so even if I'm alive I won't be on till much later.
Midterms )

My thoughts ATM:

If I die, 100% kill Dr. H. Last time when he was scum I pressured him (albeit harder and during the day, since I actually had time) and then ended up dying. Right now his actions are weird in that certain things he is saying make sense, but other things do not. I'm not very sure on his alignment and many of the things he said recently (particularly what he pointed out about RoL's stance on BC and his agreement with me about VE) make sense. If I'm alive I'll have to strongly reconsider my thoughts on him. Gut says scum, and I can't figure out why.

VE and RoL are both good lynches for today, IMO. I would also support killing prplhz, who has been completely inactive over the last 24 hours and said some incredibly strange things day 1. He seemed to sheep syllo just to sheep syllo, with no real opinions of his own. Sure, it's great to follow syllo's lead if he's town, but not everything syllo says is infallible (and yes, if I die please please please listen to syllogism. If he's scum he won't keep the charade up long since his scum confidence is low but at this point I doubt he actually is scum.)

VE is a good lynch basically because he said BC was null but then he repeatedly called him scum. His actions don't line up with his words and his scum list, as Dr. h said, looks very similar to the bs he was writing in Arkham City.

RoL is a good lynch because he voted redFF but said BC was scummy.

I hope this gets in on time

On February 24 2012 07:08 wherebugsgo wrote:
Alright I'm not gonna be back till later:

##vote VisceraEyes

Points of note:

-said BC was "null" but also somehow scummy enough to vote
-has written fluff posts that are incredibly similar to those from Arkham City
-calls me wishy washy but deliberately avoids calling me scum or even scummy because of it

On February 23 2012 12:46 VisceraEyes wrote:
FUCK Jackal - I'd had myself convinced it was Thursday all day - your appearance in the thread has reminded me that it's not.

X(

Well, while you're here (smashing all my dreams), how about you help me out with something. Can YOU explain what is townie about BC's behavior/defenses that had everyone unwilling to lynch him? I'm not seeing it. All I see are a few angrily and hastily thrown together posts which doesn't really much indicate town to me, although it does indicate null as fuck to me which taken with his behavior the rest of the day seems incriminating enough....

On February 22 2012 16:57 VisceraEyes wrote:


stfu scum!

(<3)

On February 22 2012 18:56 VisceraEyes wrote:
VisceraEyes Lynch List of Storm's End
BloodyC0bbler - My complaints echo the complaints of players such as DocH and Syllogism...he's had plenty of opportunity to come look for scum - he hasn't. He placed a vote on redFF without saying whether he thought he was scum or not. I was less than satisfied with his responses to my posts, and I've been unimpressed with his effort so far in the game. I voted for this guy in L, and while I was herpin and a derpin, he was finding scum and establishing his innocence.

wherebugsgo - WBG has similarly not been interested in finding scum. He called chaoser scum lightly at the beginning of the day, but it looked more like an excuse to get into a conversation with him than anything. This is directly after he just got done buddying him in his introduction post. Followed up with calling redFF bad ad nauseum. Very clear to not say scum - only very bad. Suddenly this all changes after red sheeps after Jackal? Sheeping is something scum and town do in equal parts - verily, many a veteran townies count on a few sheep to push their agendas. Claims that most of what red has done can be explained 'with scum motivations'. Fails to elaborate or support this idea. Just throws it out there.

RebirthOfLegenD - my weakest read - I'm really only interested in showing RoL rope if he doesn't start looking for scum. This redFF wagon essentially pushed itself, and he's making it his MISSION to make it happen. I don't even know if RoL thinks red is scum or not. But it's pretty clear that he wants red to die. TODAY.

I can support a lynch of any of these three players, my preference is WBG, followed by BC, with RoL being my least favorite choice.

On February 24 2012 07:58 VisceraEyes wrote:
Doc that this doesn't have to be a conspiracy thing - this is WBG's strategy regardless of his alignment as far as I'm aware - get someone flustered, see if they slip up (town)/call their reactions scummy (scum). However, taken with the rest of his play, I agree with you that he's probably scum trying to fluster you this game. Radfield was leading scum unlike I've seen a vet lead a scumteam before, and I've been on a few scumteams here. I probably wouldn't take those quotes to be 'general scum strategy' here...although, I haven't played with you enough to know if you're REALLY that dangerous or not.

I'm aware I haven't responded to your case against me - I'll get around to it. Please keep that in mind regardless of what you perceive my alignment to be...sound observation is sound.

On February 24 2012 11:07 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Boiling down an entire case to "revenge" and writing it off like that is monumentally stupid by the way

On February 24 2012 05:32 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
VisceraEyes

The most obvious choice imo.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=313426&user=117978

I looked far back to find a game with VE as town and did. Responsibility Mafia. I noticed something that immediately stuck out to me as a scum player trying to imitate his own town meta.

In RM VisceraEyes makes catchy posts when he calls out a scum. He will bold/color his posts, say it's some kind of special list, etc.

In RM he is focused. He calls out one scum and backs his case up. It's not a fluff post. It's not a summary. This town VE doesn't bother with that kind of stuff. Scum VE in Arkham City posts similar lists, but instead of filling it with substance and focus he does this:



A long list of players with basic summaries of what may or may not make them suspicious is fucking USELESS. It's not a case, it doesn't start a bandwagon, it doesn't get you anywhere closer to lynching scum, it shows a lack of effort in picking one and making a convincing argument (because you can't) it shows a lack of focus and it seems to me you are just trying to imitate a similar style of play. But the substance is different.

He argues with redFF but doesn't make a post summizing his case, making his points clearly in one spot. Instead he chooses to fill those "list" or whatever posts with more useless filler.



Useless summary. A lynch list is retarded it just makes you look like town. You can really just sum up other peoples arguments too, reword them a little, boom you look like you're helping.



You don't need to announce that you agree with me if you're town. Just expand on my ideas or push them too.



You seem uncertain and wishy washy about BC but at the same time very very upset he wasn't lynched? Why is that? If you're town you only have reason to be disappointed that he wasn't lynched if you are pretty proof-positive he is scum, especially with a player of BC's potential.

The early game behavior I'm not too awfully alarmed by other than your friendly attitude. You are giving out compliments and buddying up with people a lot which isn't something I see a lot of town players take the effort to do. Doubtlessly, you've learned a bit from Arkham City. However, the early game behavior doesn't jump off the page as helpful pro-town shit either and your behavior after the flip is very concerning: very defensive and overreacting to the situation.

I really doubt I'm 3/3 here but I try not to think too much about the scum team as I do about individual scum. When I think about the scum team I worry too much about if they would bus, are arguments fake, etc. etc. etc. and I go insane. It's much easier to just analyze people as individuals and determine whether or not I find them to be scummy.

On February 24 2012 10:17 wherebugsgo wrote:


wtf is this opposite day?

BH JUST CLAIMED SCUM

stop being thick and start reading

On February 24 2012 13:35 wherebugsgo wrote:


So you've stooped to discussing semantics, I see.



If by content you mean repeatedly calling me scum (which I don't consider content because you're wrong) and sheeping syllo's case on BC after contradicting yourself on redFF, sure.

This is incredibly funny since you actually accused me of being wishy washy on redFF...when you basically did the opposite of what I did! You went from calling redFF sure scum to voting BC when the votes on redFF started getting serious.





Quoting a joke post as "calling me scum" lololol



Admittedly I actually never saw this post. That's completely my bad. My bad.



Okay, this is deliberate misrepresentation.

You bring up a post that calls me scum AFTER I say that, and use that as a reference for when you called me scum?

Okay, I was in the process of dropping you as a scum candidate because of some of the things you said, but this is deliberate misrepresentation and it is scummy as fuck. I really highly doubt a townie would try to make another player look bad by taking something that happened AFTER I said something to simply try and prove a point.



I never even read Doctor H's case on you, because quite honestly I stopped paying attention to Dr. H after I stopped pressuring him at the end of the night phase.



the fuck?

I'm pretty sure that's what Blazinghand is doing.

At any rate, what's annoying me is that I can't reconcile the stark differences in your play. You've either become considerably harder to read as scum or you've gone back to being shitty at town.

There's the proving a point thing and your overall stretching to call me scum that makes you look really scummy, but then your overall effort and presence look like what you did in Responsibility.



HOW DOES CHANGING YOUR MIND MAKE YOU SCUM?

If you are actually town, ask yourself that.



Stretching.

That's what you are doing to try and make me look like I'm scum.

It's as if you've assumed I'm scum and then based everything I've said around that assumption, which is quite frankly retarded. That's probably why I'm so annoyed right now, because I can't fathom how stupid someone must be to think I am scum this game.

I'm recalling something Toad said before, and I now feel his pain lol. It was something like "everyone calls me scum when I'm town and when I'm scum I look uber town". roughly

On February 24 2012 13:46 wherebugsgo wrote:

running theme = anyone who calls me scum when I'm town I call atrocious town (even if they don't really deserve it all the time like prpl LOL)

On February 24 2012 13:53 wherebugsgo wrote:


calling them bad usually doesn't equate to calling them scum.

it's a great way to poke people into reacting certain ways.I remember I did it to prpl in PYP:I on day 1 and I basically caught him as scum instantly. But the lucky bastard claimed something in PMs that left him alive till the last day.

I did the exact same thing to chaoser that same game and then harassed him in PMs for a good 4-5 hours. His reaction was almost identical, oddly enough.

On February 24 2012 15:01 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
by the way VE I'm just curious

what purpose would a "lynch list" ever serve a town player to post in a million years

i'm trying to think of things more useless and i'm not coming up with much

On February 24 2012 15:24 DoctorHelvetica wrote:

Seems scummy to me. Absolutely useless fluff, makes you look kinda pro-town while you run around asking questions and poking/prodding people without ever making serious commitments and cases. You format some of your trash pretty nicely though, maybe later you'll do that with some real content or a case ?

On February 24 2012 15:26 DoctorHelvetica wrote:

You're posting a shitton and aren't reading closely enough to know what I've said about BH when I said it many times and you wrote me off and just asked this dumb question instead of making a real response right away

I never told you who or what to vote for so I don't even know what this post is trying to do it's just whiny

On February 25 2012 03:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I never try to make predictions in closed set ups, I always get it wrong and look like an idiot. RoL still hasn't pointed out why redFF is scum other than the fact that he claimed tracker, which is a terrible reason.

VE, how do you expect me to behave toward someone I believe is mafia?

On February 25 2012 04:10 Blazinghand wrote:


Alright, well consider then my vote on BC both at the end of the lynch yesterday and after the start of the day today. Surely if I were going to hide, I'd hide in a successful wagon?

On February 21 2012 09:59 wherebugsgo wrote:
VE stfu you suck

Everyone else sucks marginally less ATM. Mostly chaoser is doing the least sucking.

Blazinghand learn to play

I have to program for a few hours so I'll bbl. Till then I suggest you all brush up on Ver's guide since the last page has made my eyes bleed.

On February 21 2012 10:01 wherebugsgo wrote:


I beg to differ on that first statement, IMO redFF is god awful at this game

On February 21 2012 10:54 wherebugsgo wrote:


redFF=bad=I have no idea what his alignment is atm. If you want a general idea of how I deal with redFF, look at Resurrection (in which I call him bad repeatedly and then actually defend him from the onslaught of Ace) or at XLVII where I completely ignore him.

He was opposite alignment in those two games and honestly I could barely tell the difference. I guess part of that stems from not wanting to read/decipher his posts.

Since I believe redFF is going to be comparatively unreadable to some of the other players here (read: syllo, kita, chaoser, you, RoL, Jackal, Toad, risk) I think it's more fruitful for us to be pushing players who will react in ways we expect them to react depending on their alignments.

As of now, yes, that means I think chaoser is scummy because he called it strange for me to buddy him and then turned around and buddied you in the next sentence.

Remember: need to know basis. Why does anyone need to know chaoser's town reads?

On February 21 2012 14:36 wherebugsgo wrote:


you're still wrong, but whatever.

My contention is that I have no clue what redFF's alignment is because he's capable of being like this regardless. Thus, he very well could be town, yes. Whether he is or not at this point I have no idea. A lynch on someone like that is purely an information lynch (although it would take a detrimental player out, that's true)

I am not insinuating that he is town nor scum because I honestly don't know (and for now, don't care.) if I were a vig and I had no better choice I'd definitely shoot him, though. However I'm certain better choices will appear today. I will flush them out of their caves if they are hiding.

On February 22 2012 06:37 wherebugsgo wrote:
syllo can you give me your opinion on redFF?

I think I was completely wrong about him.

On February 22 2012 07:19 wherebugsgo wrote:


about redFF.

he's too much of a liability to town atm to keep him alive, and everything he's been done can actually be explainable from a scu perspective.

Almost none of it can be explained from a town perspective. When I reread the thread this morning I took note to look for redFF's motivations for the things he was posting and I can't really justify anything he's done from town perspectve. I was wrong; I now think he is readable.

Tell me, do you think a blue claim @ 5 votes, 24 hours into day 1 is something town would do?

On February 28 2012 08:01 wherebugsgo wrote:
I'm jumping on town sentiment...how do you know what town sentiment is?

How am I jumping on anyone's sentiment when my vote is on Toad? Or that I think you're scum? Name another person who is agreeing with me about you right now, since it certainly seems like I'm playing a game with no support at all.

Where have you been the last 48 hours? Clearly not helping town win. And you come in now with a bullshit case, 1/3 of which is based on the first post I made, one which was half troll.

I'm done for a while, this is too frustrating. Now I know why syllo told me he wanted to die.

On February 28 2012 08:11 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Let me get this straight VE. In order to be town you must be the first person to ever make a case on someone? I don't recall you doing much of that

if WBG was scum looking to kill RedFF (and had prior knowledge of the noflip) why would he pussyfoot around it when his scum meta is super confident??

On February 28 2012 08:22 DoctorHelvetica wrote:


I don't think it's scummy to not make first analysis or anything like that. I've hardly been pushing my reads either.

WBG is pretty high on my list of people I think are scummy in this game but your analysis is bad and coupled with your play earlier in the game I'm inclined to think it's more likely that you're scum. I'm going to reread WBG's filter later but I really think we should lynch Toades today. You agree that it's scummy to vote based on town perception right? A main point in your analysis is WBG asking syllo for his opinion before pushing his case, thus implying WBG is more concerned about how town will view his opinions rather than his own instincts.

Toades publically announced his reluctance to vote for BH based on nothing except for how town might view the vote. Nobody at the time was very concerned with Toadesstern and if BH flipped town I would have immediately rechecked BC and Dirkzor but not Toadesstern. The fact that he was so concerned with how town viewed him and also the fact that he was trivial in the BH lynch/case but yet saw himself as important enough to warrant a town reaction is the kind of implicit guilt and fear that mafia reek of. If you are town and you really suspect WBG is scum keep pressuring him and I'll see what happens, but for now Toades is the best lynch. RoL is uninterested in the game and should just be shot at night, I'd rather not waste a lynch on someone who isn't pressured by it and is too immature to play a game in which some people are suspicious of him

On February 28 2012 08:35 wherebugsgo wrote:
Hey VE,

according to your logic based on me talking to syllo, this post makes you scum:



asking BC for his reads

subtly hinting Dr. H is scum.

today, talks to Dr. H as if he's knowingly talking to a townie, trying to convince him I'm scum.

sup scum logic

On February 28 2012 08:47 wherebugsgo wrote:


trololol scum can't handle being owned on his own logic

now you're just making up shit

On February 28 2012 08:57 wherebugsgo wrote:
alright, so here's my post, let's compare it to what VE has said:





Compare that to this shit:











lastly, something slightly different but it gives you an idea of the angle VE is coming from:




This comes from the person who voted redFF 3 different times on day 1.

This comes from the person who is claiming I am following town sentiment when he called at least (by my count) 8 people scum on day 1, trying to find what would stick.

This comes from the person who is trying to lynch me based on being manipulative yet is, without a doubt, trying to manipulate the lynch right now. Proof is above.

On February 28 2012 09:06 wherebugsgo wrote:


1-contradicted himself on logic; calls me scum for one thing when he's done it himself at least 6 times

2-pushes responsibility for day 2 lynch onto me despite supposedly agreeing with the sentiment

3-2 day hole in activity from yesterday, says he'll post before lynch but doesn't

4-makes shit case on me based on my first post and the fact that I can be manipulative as scum

5th and most importantly: talks to people as if he already knows their alignment

On February 28 2012 08:43 VisceraEyes wrote:


What I did: subtly poke an inactive-ish player (BloodyC0bbler) a specific question with clear motivation (is this scummy? are you going to contribute?) regarding a controversial player (DocH) who's absolutely NOT a lynch candidate.

What you did: ask an active player (syllogism) a vague question (what are your thoughts) with unclear motivations (you've already said redFF was bad, you hadn't noted any change of opinion as of this post) of a player who's given his opinion on the player you're asking about (RedFF) who was already a lynch candidate.

They're not the same things. Try again scum.

On February 28 2012 09:26 wherebugsgo wrote:


nope kita's just wrong.

anyway I'm not going to get lynched today, and if scum tries it's going to be hilarious.

I have secrets so go ahead VE, try to lynch me. Really, I feel sorry for you since you have 0 idea what's coming.

On February 28 2012 09:28 VisceraEyes wrote:


Come on WBG - COME ON. You really think I have ZERO idea what's coming? You're ass is going to fake-claim something retarded, claiming scum in the process and you're going to get lynched.

Give me a hard one.

On February 28 2012 09:45 wherebugsgo wrote:


You're calling people scum based on how potentially dangerous they are if they were scum.

This is fucking fearmongering and it isn't even scumhunting. It operates on the basis of the assumption that myself and BC are mafia.

Basically you're saying "these two players are dangerous as scum, so that means they're scum"

good fucking god