EPTStorm Mafia - Page 8
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On February 24 2012 15:24 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Seems scummy to me. Absolutely useless fluff, makes you look kinda pro-town while you run around asking questions and poking/prodding people without ever making serious commitments and cases. You format some of your trash pretty nicely though, maybe later you'll do that with some real content or a case ? Maybe. Wait and see. You're wasting your time arguing with me about it. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On February 24 2012 15:26 DoctorHelvetica wrote: You're posting a shitton and aren't reading closely enough to know what I've said about BH when I said it many times and you wrote me off and just asked this dumb question instead of making a real response right away I never told you who or what to vote for so I don't even know what this post is trying to do it's just whiny You're just being a jerk to everyone you encounter. I'm done responding to you Doc. Good luck with your VE wagon. I'm sure it's going to bring you lots of success in this game. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
DocH, I will say - there's a reason you were on the "danger to town" list in BCAC. It's for stupid nonsense like this - like, I came to the same conclusion as you without posting a huge wall of text. OBVIOUSLY that means I'm scum. You don't like the way I scumhunt? That's cool. Doesn't mean I'm scum. You don't like my lynch-list? Think it's useless because you don't see a purpose? Neat. Doesn't mean I'm scum. The good part of all this is I'm sure you're town. So congrats on assholing your way to establishing your innocence. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
I'll admit that I lost it last night - but look at the reasoning. DocH is just calling everything I do scummy. I don't know why, and I don't know what he expects. This is how I play Mafia. But I'm not going to apologize for trying to find scum. It should be clear to anyone reading the thread that I'm trying to find scum. Move your vote somewhere useful Toad. I'm rereading, so I don't really know where that would be...but take it off me. You'll only end up disappointed. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
If we assume that redFF was Tracker, we can assume scum have a RB because unless their shots are person-person (which IS possible beeteedubz) we can assume that the Tracker is in place to catch RB or some other targeted role (role cop or framer come to mind). | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On February 25 2012 03:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I never try to make predictions in closed set ups, I always get it wrong and look like an idiot. RoL still hasn't pointed out why redFF is scum other than the fact that he claimed tracker, which is a terrible reason. VE, how do you expect me to behave toward someone I believe is mafia? You don't have to be a dick. I think Blazinghand is mafia, do you see me repeatedly calling his posts worthless or shitty or whatever the fuck? No. Because I want Blazinghand to enjoy the game IN SPITE of being on the opposite team as him. But you know, I wouldn't expect you to think that way. Just leave me alone Doc. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
But as a side-note, your posts ARE useless, but because I don't find that indicative of alignment, merely of skill, I've left that out. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On February 25 2012 04:10 Blazinghand wrote: Alright, well consider then my vote on BC both at the end of the lynch yesterday and after the start of the day today. Surely if I were going to hide, I'd hide in a successful wagon? Unless you're trying to save your scumbuddy. You never acted like you actually wanted to lynch BC. I got the feeling you were just trying to make it LOOK like you wanted to lynch BC. Where was your vote when BC was like a vote away from being lynched? Oh that's right, on redFF. Anyway, arguing with me isn't accomplishing anything. If you really want to clear your name, you should be explaining why risk.nuke should die (if that's really who you want to lynch.) | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
   Srsly tho I wish I had a gun. XD :D | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
Too many haters. It's a chore to contribute to a thread when people trash your contributions. I'll be back later with my thoughts and vote. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
/facepalm I'm about to go on a posting spree about a few people, and I'd appreciate some leeway to finish my posts before we just start calling everything I'm saying scummy. I'm going to be examining the following people - previous scumreads BloodyC0bbler, wherebugsgo and RoL and new interestings Toadesstern and layabout. I'm not sure who I'll support a lynch of, but if it's not one of these people, I'll cerrtainly provide reasoning explaining why. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
From the beginning of the game, the play of WBG can be summed up with one word. Adaptive. On February 21 2012 09:59 wherebugsgo wrote: VE stfu you suck Everyone else sucks marginally less ATM. Mostly chaoser is doing the least sucking. Blazinghand learn to play I have to program for a few hours so I'll bbl. Till then I suggest you all brush up on Ver's guide since the last page has made my eyes bleed. This was WBG's first post in-game. I've bolded the line I find to be incriminating. I brought this up earlier, but this post is indicative of one of two things: 1) WBG is not reading the thread closely 2) WBG is reading, but ignoring facts to buddy chaoser. Whatever is your opinion of chaoser's play up until this point, he was certainly not doing "the least sucking". He made a decent point on Dirkzor and then fixated on something DocH had said (I think) that he had attributed to me. Was calling me to respond to it and stuff. In fact, the one doing the 'most' sucking up to that point wasn't even me, as he implied (jokingly I assume.) It was in fact redFF, the one he was notoriously wishy-washy on. Posts like this: On February 21 2012 10:01 wherebugsgo wrote: I beg to differ on that first statement, IMO redFF is god awful at this game …and this: On February 21 2012 10:54 wherebugsgo wrote: redFF=bad=I have no idea what his alignment is atm. If you want a general idea of how I deal with redFF, look at Resurrection (in which I call him bad repeatedly and then actually defend him from the onslaught of Ace) or at XLVII where I completely ignore him. He was opposite alignment in those two games and honestly I could barely tell the difference. I guess part of that stems from not wanting to read/decipher his posts. Since I believe redFF is going to be comparatively unreadable to some of the other players here (read: syllo, kita, chaoser, you, RoL, Jackal, Toad, risk) I think it's more fruitful for us to be pushing players who will react in ways we expect them to react depending on their alignments. As of now, yes, that means I think chaoser is scummy because he called it strange for me to buddy him and then turned around and buddied you in the next sentence. Remember: need to know basis. Why does anyone need to know chaoser's town reads? …and this: On February 21 2012 14:36 wherebugsgo wrote: you're still wrong, but whatever. My contention is that I have no clue what redFF's alignment is because he's capable of being like this regardless. Thus, he very well could be town, yes. Whether he is or not at this point I have no idea. A lynch on someone like that is purely an information lynch (although it would take a detrimental player out, that's true) I am not insinuating that he is town nor scum because I honestly don't know (and for now, don't care.) if I were a vig and I had no better choice I'd definitely shoot him, though. However I'm certain better choices will appear today. I will flush them out of their caves if they are hiding. …all very clearly illustrate that WBG was unwilling to commit to a read on redFF. It wasn't until his next post, On February 22 2012 06:37 wherebugsgo wrote: syllo can you give me your opinion on redFF? I think I was completely wrong about him. …that he actually alludes to what read he might have on redFF, but note the actual language he uses: I think I was completely wrong about him. Up until this point, wherebugsgo had only made one solid statement about redFF: he is bad. He makes it very clear to everyone that he wasn't calling red town or scum (because he's capable of being bad regardless of his alignment). So which part was he wrong about? It implies, subtly, that he used to have a badTown-read on redFF, but that he's having second thoughts and wants a second opinion because he then goes on to vote for redFF because he's "scum". But he was VERY clear about his stance on redFF: Just Bad. Interestingly enough, his very point on redFF proves that he's being manipulative in this post: On February 22 2012 07:19 wherebugsgo wrote: about redFF. he's too much of a liability to town atm to keep him alive, and everything he's been done can actually be explainable from a scu perspective. Almost none of it can be explained from a town perspective. When I reread the thread this morning I took note to look for redFF's motivations for the things he was posting and I can't really justify anything he's done from town perspectve. I was wrong; I now think he is readable. Tell me, do you think a blue claim @ 5 votes, 24 hours into day 1 is something town would do? While it's true that "scum motivations" could feasibly explain some (all) of redFF's actions, it's equally feasible to explain them with simply "bad town play". I can absolutely see redFF playing that poorly as town, and anyone who says otherwise hasn't played many games with redFF. Regardless, he even throws in there that "he's too much of a liability to keep around" even if he's somehow mistaken in his "read" and redFF flips town. This is just evidence from D1, and his manipulation only intensifies. He's manipulating town, from the background. He's jumping on town sentiment rather than push his major scum-reads. wherebugsgo is scum | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On February 28 2012 08:01 wherebugsgo wrote: I'm jumping on town sentiment...how do you know what town sentiment is? How am I jumping on anyone's sentiment when my vote is on Toad? Or that I think you're scum? Name another person who is agreeing with me about you right now, since it certainly seems like I'm playing a game with no support at all. Where have you been the last 48 hours? Clearly not helping town win. And you come in now with a bullshit case, 1/3 of which is based on the first post I made, one which was half troll. I'm done for a while, this is too frustrating. Now I know why syllo told me he wanted to die. Blazinghand. "RebirthOfLegenD". redFF. All pushes you made AFTER suspicion had been on them from other players in-game. Don't worry about where I've been. It's irrelevant because I'm here now, and my case on you is strong. Your redFF push was a fucking joke bugs, and while I was with you on Blazinghand, your little "lynch-limiting" move where you can "guarantee hitting scum" is a fucking farce because I'm included in them and I know I'm fucking town. Your manipulation ends. Today. We're lynching you. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On February 28 2012 08:11 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Let me get this straight VE. In order to be town you must be the first person to ever make a case on someone? I don't recall you doing much of that if WBG was scum looking to kill RedFF (and had prior knowledge of the noflip) why would he pussyfoot around it when his scum meta is super confident?? DoctorHelvetica falling back on meta? Say it isn't so Doc. I don't know why - maybe he's aware of his 'super-confident' meta and wanted to subvert it? Maybe he thought redFF was the very best mislynch possible and didn't want to spook townies by building a wagon too fast? There are a lot of factors coming into play as scum - take your pick as to why he wouldn't "follow his scum-meta". | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On February 28 2012 08:22 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I don't think it's scummy to not make first analysis or anything like that. I've hardly been pushing my reads either. WBG is pretty high on my list of people I think are scummy in this game but your analysis is bad and coupled with your play earlier in the game I'm inclined to think it's more likely that you're scum. I'm going to reread WBG's filter later but I really think we should lynch Toades today. You agree that it's scummy to vote based on town perception right? A main point in your analysis is WBG asking syllo for his opinion before pushing his case, thus implying WBG is more concerned about how town will view his opinions rather than his own instincts. Toades publically announced his reluctance to vote for BH based on nothing except for how town might view the vote. Nobody at the time was very concerned with Toadesstern and if BH flipped town I would have immediately rechecked BC and Dirkzor but not Toadesstern. The fact that he was so concerned with how town viewed him and also the fact that he was trivial in the BH lynch/case but yet saw himself as important enough to warrant a town reaction is the kind of implicit guilt and fear that mafia reek of. If you are town and you really suspect WBG is scum keep pressuring him and I'll see what happens, but for now Toades is the best lynch. RoL is uninterested in the game and should just be shot at night, I'd rather not waste a lynch on someone who isn't pressured by it and is too immature to play a game in which some people are suspicious of him This isn't pressure Doc, I think WBG is much more sinister as scum and FAR prefer a WBG lynch today. His post to syllo wasn't so much "fear of how town will view his change of heart" in my opinion. That's simply the point where he went from "redFF is bad" to "redFF is scum". The fact that it was appealing to syllogism, or that he was trying to justify changing his reads aren't really a part of my case at all, but I'm glad you mentioned them. Toadesstern thinks he's the most important player in any game regardless of alignment. I know, because I've been there and I've been that guy. It's not that he's wrong, in his game he is the star of the show - it's that he expects town to agree with him and either praise him on high when his reads are correct, or think he's instantly suspicious when he's wrong and go immediately on the defensive. Also, like with I said on D1 of Blazinghand before him...if he's scum, he's FAR more likely to slip up and out some of his team than WBG is. Toadesstern is just next in a long line of easy lynches. You should really give that WBG filter a good going-over. I think he's vastly better for today's lynch. | ||
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