On March 01 2012 01:32 Dirkzor wrote:
The reason I only wrote Palmar/Prplhz is beacuse Kita (and BH?) are calling them scumbuddies. So by their logic this team would have 2 scum on it. Not a good start for scum.

Palmar can and HAS coordinated single sabotages from 2-scum teams. I don't know why anyone would consider anything but a 0-scum D1 team to be ideal.

Blazinghand

United States25562 Posts

February 29 2012 18:01 GMT

#640

On March 01 2012 02:46 VisceraEyes wrote:
I think that's what we've got here. Take a look at Palmar's contributions to Resistance 1 Blaze. Unless he's actually started actually giving a shit as scum (I'll believe it when I see it) then he's town this game. prplhz is the one I'm the most worried about on my team, but after reading his filter, I think we're dealing with town prplhz too.

I could be wrong, but I really feel like this is going to work.

Palmar's scum play has come a long way since Resistance 1. Let me point you towards Werewolves II:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=309405
IRC Logs: http://www.palmar.org/mafia/
My backup: http://www.mediafire.com/?umb3hqwwgpb9h0g

In this recent game, Palmar put in a good deal of effort and effectively mirrored his town meta, winning the game for his scumteam. Now, in the other game I've played with him, Purgatory, he was scum and was obviously scum and didn't live long, but I just wanted to point out that anyone assuming that Palmar is incapable of playing a good scum needs to reexamine their assumptions.

He is not a bad player.

Blazinghand

United States25562 Posts

February 29 2012 18:19 GMT

#641

On March 01 2012 01:56 Dirkzor wrote:
What doesn't fit is that he voted Nay to Kita's team (Dirk/BH/VE) if he was scum with BH. The only reason I can think of is that he thought it would look to scummy if he voted yes on a team with me on it after he have been calling me scum all game - and this makes sense.
It could also be because there was more then 1 scum on the team, indicating that BH and VE are scum. This could also make sense.

In the event that Chaos and I were scum together, I don't know why he'd chose to be the vote that tips a 5-4 victory into a 4-5 loss for kita's team. Assuming you and VE are both town and Chaos and I are scum, passing a Dirk BH VE team would have been an excellent D1 team, but Chaos voted Nay. The fact of the matter is a 1-scum D1 team would be optimal. I think your latter explanation makes more sense, if you want to begin with the assumption that I'm scum.

Despite the fact that your latter explanation may make more sense, I think *it* is also total crap. If VE BH Chaos is the scumteam, why on earth would VE and I both yayvote the teams with both of us on it when Sent and Dirk were the thirds, then have VE nayvote it when Nav was the third? Nay you could say "well Chaos13's team was trying to fail, so VE voted against it" but that didn't stop me.

Here's what I think is the case: for the first two VE/BH/X teams, VE thought I was town. Now, VE is less sure (and also suspicious of Nav), so he voted against Chaos13's team, and suggested one without me.

This strikes me as pretty normal town play, not a long-winded distancing strategy. The reason I don't like this team isn't VE, but rather, Palm and Prpl. I think VE could have easily picked some towner players like Nav/Dirk to go on this team and for whatever reason did not. This is not the best D1 team we could send, so I'm voting against it, and so should you.

Blazinghand

United States25562 Posts

February 29 2012 18:22 GMT

#642

If I get the chance to suggest a team today, I'll be suggesting BH/VE/Dirk... I may swap out VE for Nav if people really want, but these two seem the towniest to me.

Blazinghand

United States25562 Posts

March 01 2012 01:07 GMT

#652

Any chance we're gonna get behind BH/VE/Dirk team?

Blazinghand

United States25562 Posts

March 01 2012 01:42 GMT

#656

Navi would you be interesting in a team of BH/VE/Nav, or are you just generally not a fan of BH/VE/X as a team

Blazinghand

United States25562 Posts

March 01 2012 01:42 GMT

#657

Ah okay so you think i'm scum ;_; welp

Blazinghand

United States25562 Posts

March 01 2012 01:44 GMT

#658

So of the two VE/BH teams, we've had one with Sent and one with Dirk.
The one with Dirk was liked by Sent, Kita, VE, and BH.
The one with Sent was liked by Sent, Chaos, VE, BH.

[image loading]

IF we suggest VE/BH/Dirk, you me and possibly Kita will yayvote, but we'll still need two yayvotes from chaos/dirk/palmar/prpl/nav/sent.

I just need to lay down some mad convincing and get TWO more votes (it's not one because Sent now thinks the scumteam is Kita/BH/Prpl).

An alternative team could be VE/BH/Chaos if people are more comfortable with that, but I think the chief contention people have with the team is that I'm on it.

Blazinghand

United States25562 Posts

March 01 2012 03:50 GMT

#660

OK Sent as you know I am not a palmar fan. Would you be able to get behind, say, VE/Dirk/Nav? This is less preferable than VE/BH/Dirk but vastly superior to anything I think Palmar would suggest, and honestly I'm willing to suggest a team without myself if it's composed of the three townest players rather than whatever we'll end up settling for as the draw deadline comes up.

Blazinghand

United States25562 Posts

March 01 2012 04:23 GMT

#662

On March 01 2012 06:44 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm trying to simultaneously push a team through and choose members I think are likely to cause the mission to succeed.

If it fails, we have information. If it succeeds, we just add one for N2. One of Dirk/Kita/Nav imo. Nav only because of his Venn Diagram. Good shit.

It seems VE likes both Dirk and Nav.

We'll be able to get a yayvote from Dirk, since he's yayvoted Nav teams before and has explicitly states he thinks VE is town.

With my yayvote, we're up to 4, and we just need ONE vote from Palm Kita Prpl Chaos Sent.

I'm gonna go ahead with VE/Dirk/Nav and see what happens.

Blazinghand

United States25562 Posts

March 01 2012 04:24 GMT

#663

Team Blazinghand: VisceraEyes, Dirkzor, Navillus

Come at me bros

Blazinghand

United States25562 Posts

March 01 2012 04:25 GMT

#664

##Vote: yay

Blazinghand

United States25562 Posts

March 01 2012 04:28 GMT

#665

And before yall are like "oh blazinghand why aren't you on your own team are you scum or what" well it turns out it's actually gonna go really shitty if no team gets passed and so I went with something that we can actually push through. If it turns out this team fails, we have tons of info and are really set up for a good D2 team imo. I consider a Draw to be a failure to achieve win condition and will work against this. You should all feel the same way.

If you nayvote this team, please explicitly state why you are naying the team, who you think is scum or whatever, etc. It you fail to vote I will personally e-crap on your e-porch and light it on fire. No "failed to vote"s please.

Blazinghand

United States25562 Posts

March 02 2012 03:14 GMT

#681

If you think Palmar is scum why would you think Dirk is scum

Blazinghand

United States25562 Posts

March 02 2012 03:23 GMT

#683

I'm just saying that Dirk being scum is unlikely (but not impossible) if Palmar is scum. He'd want to pick two town players on his D1 team almost certainly, even assuming he can coordinate who's sabotaging (which he definitely could). My interpretation of Palmar's team suggestion was this: Palmar is scum, and he suggested Dirk and Nav who he both knew was town. He suggested Dirk because he wanted to look like he was suggesting a team, and he suggested Nav to be a "fall guy" for when the team failed, making up some bad rationalization of "well scum would care about the game more". I just don't think it would be optimal play for a Palm/Dirk/X scumteam to put both Palm and Dirk on a team together like that with Nav.