Purgatory Mafia

Town Demon Hunter (x1)

You are the latest descendent in a line of legendary demon hunters, who wield their dark powers against them. Each night, you may target a player other than yourself to attack. If your target is not an angel, he or she will be killed. You win with the town.

Town Channeler (x1)

Your study of the dark powers has enabled you to move people and objects across the planes. Each night, you may target a player other than yourself to banish. That player will be sent to purgatory for the night. You may not target the same player three nights in a row. You win with the town.

Town Seer (x1)

Your study of auras has enabled you to use dark powers to differentiate the pure from the sinful. Each night, you may target a player to read. You will receive "Angel" or "Not Angel" as a result. You win with the town.

Note: Please carefully read and consider all elements of the game setup before playing. If you do not understand the game, you may begin pursuing strategies which are not beneficial to your team!

On December 31 2011 07:15 Blazinghand wrote:
Grackoroni, Bluelightz, layabout, xsksc, we meet again-- but this time outsude the classroom.

I am looking forwards to this.

On December 31 2011 07:42 Zephirdd wrote:
Ohohoho alphabetical ordering makes me the last on the list.

Can't wait, see you all on the 2nd. Happy new year festivities!

<edit>
IMO any player should refrain from discussing the game until the game starts(for example, best play for a corrupted player). The reason is that you may and must change your position depending on your role.

On January 04 2012 16:17 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:

You are informed when you are corrupted. If the sage is still alive you say "I got corrupted" and then the sage cleans you of corruption. 2 cycles of demon powers taken care of. (they only get to corrupt every other night) As I said, I am not very worried about them until we lose our demon hunter or sage.

On January 05 2012 04:43 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:

He was useless to town...but he was also scum, so that tells us nothing of his town play. He also played in a way that allowed him to be correctly identified as scum. I see no reason to lynch him for meta purposes alone, and am perfectly content to give him some time to post something useful.


That's always one of those sounds like a good idea things, that then never proves to be as useful as one would hope. It doesn't force angels and demons to be active, it forces them to be on par or more active than the least active townie in the game, and there always seems to be at least one afk townie. Also, lurker lynches don't generate much info since there is nothing very contentious about lynching someone with few posts, nor are they likely to have tied themselves to their teammates in their posts.

On January 05 2012 04:52 Bluelightz wrote:
Okay, im back guys :p

Im gonna start responding to cases and make cases myself.




Anyway, first I clearly said that I wouldn't be available till about now(Flight was delayed ;|)

Anyway, my thoughts on lynching lurkers.

It ends up lynching a townie usually

On January 05 2012 05:03 Zephirdd wrote:


Many times people talk about policy lynches but they are rarely followed. No, I don't like policy lynches. L-A-Lurkers will most of the time target a town, because if a scum is targeted he will instantly become "useful" enough to avoid the lynch. Besides, the amount of information a lurker gives on lynch is nil.

L-A-Liars may be decent, but I'm yet to see a mafia that lied "to help town". For example, Drazerk claimed a retarded role on XLVIII in order to attract mafia shots. A mafia wouldn't try that, ever; However lynching Drazerk there would be wrong, yet he would be a LALiars target. So no, I don't agree with LALiars either.

On January 05 2012 05:54 Zephirdd wrote:


I thought the general rule was Scummy > Lurking Scummy > Lurking > Townie on lynch priority order?

Of course, if by the end of the day-cycle we end up with no real case, we just lynch a lurker. But I really really wish we avoided that.

This town isn't with a bad atmosphere either; discussion is rolling, things are going. I just wish a conclusion on the MrWiggles thing(is he really ingame) and that other players posted more, but I guess they are in different timezones eh.

This post is way more Anti-Angel then my post is being Anti-demon.

On January 05 2012 02:59 Grackaroni wrote:
As you already mentioned the game only started 10 hours ago so I'm sure people would post if they could.
If we can't be sure that a player is an angel/demon I think the safe lynch is bluelightz.

His play in Student mafia was weak and so far this game he has posted nothing but one liners. Hopefully he will have solid content when he returns but I am not too optimistic. I just don't think I will get a good read on him and he's not somebody I would want at lylo, the only downside to lynching him is that it may not give us as much information as many other lynches.

Perhaps he would be a good n1 target for the town demon hunter?

If we can't be sure that a player is an angel/demon I think the safe lynch is bluelightz.

I just don't think I will get a good read on him

it may not give us as much information as many other lynches

Perhaps he would be a good n1 target for the town demon hunter?

On January 05 2012 08:26 Grackaroni wrote:
KK I'm back. I suggested the Bluelightz lynch and it looks like BH took a lot of shit because of me

On January 06 2012 03:01 Blazinghand wrote:


Say what you want about spam, at least you don't have to open THREE spoilers in my posts to see this kind of BS. Cmon man wheres your respect at. I didn't even notice you calling me out the first time I read through this! Stop it with the spoilers it makes it hard to search your posts. Usually my strat is to open a filter then use Control+F to find stuff but if you put everything in spoilers I need to like go through and CLICK THEM ALL.

It's like a game of osu! but instead of fun pop music and video game music it's just the strumming of my tears hitting the desk as I click all these dumb spoiler tags.

On January 04 2012 18:22 Dirkzor wrote:
Hehe... I must admit I didn't think that strat through. It kinda just came to me while writing

On January 06 2012 04:06 Grackaroni wrote:
HarbingerofDoom is my scum pick.

He was one of the first people into the game and took a lot of time to comment on the setup.
(this is what the majority of his posts are about) -a completely null tell
At the start of the game he asks for us to give strategies for demons/angels which to me seemed weird from a town perspective and not beneficial to town.
-asking to not reveal game winning strategies for the other team is weird for town?this strikes me as counter-intuitive

In Newbie mini Mafia he was very active and spent a lot of time scum hunting.
So far there has been no scumhunting done by him -no scumhunting halfway into day 1, applies to a large number of players in this game and isn't necessarily a scummy thing to do.


He seems fairly content with lynching a lurker. (Palmar/Errandorr are the only people he's pushed lynches for)

Together this paints a picture to me, he is one of the earlier players to sign up, he was here right when the game started, he had the time to post quite a few things about the setup which tells us nothing about his allignment. In another game when he is town he is more active and does a lot of scumhunting but in this game he wants a lurker lynch.(granted it did include some meta with it) He has the time to post but chooses not to.
I'll wait for more posts.
-here he accepts HoD's early posting is null tell
-he offers weak "meta analysis" based off of a single game
-decides to wait for more information, likely because the case isn't strong enough to justify voting

On January 06 2012 04:24 Grackaroni wrote:
As for the Palmar question I would shoot Bluelightz because he could easily be mafia, there's much less downside to shooting him than a potentially useful town player who I think is scum and there's no way of knowing his allignment unless he takes a stance on something.

However the lynch is used for Information as well as killing scum, it wouldn't give the most information but more than I previously thought as a lot of people seem split on whether he is scum or not.

Question for Syllogism, Why do you dislike lynching BlueLightz?
Is it because you have gotten a town read on him, (if yes plz do share), or was it just because of the way I presented his lynch.

On January 06 2012 04:26 Grackaroni wrote:

fine. ##Vote: HarbingerofDoom
But with that I am off, Will be back in a few hours though, I promise

On January 06 2012 07:00 Blazinghand wrote:
EBWOP: Ostriches. People are not ostriches

On January 04 2012 23:24 xsksc wrote:
Hi guys.

First multi-factional game for me as well, not really sure how we should proceed strategy-wise. Lynching an angel day 1 would obviously be ideal, although getting a demon is definitely better than a townie.


Yeah, and then he went on to be one of the only useful townies that actually read the game and used his brain.


Syllo, if Palmar does decide to mess around on day one again, would it not be better to wait and see how he behaves later on (like in TLXVIII), rather than just lynching him?

On January 06 2012 22:32 syllogism wrote:
And just like with everything else, you trust people who you think have made themselves look towny and you consider good players. Quoting a person with one post to support your anti-meta stance doesn't make you look particularly good, though I don't otherwise have an issue with your play so far

On January 05 2012 07:05 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Hey guys, I was sick last night, so I didn't bother posting. I took some Dristan and went to bed and feel better now, though, so let's get started. First thing's first, I want to address a couple of posts that I saw as non-optimal play, and something we should be aware of.

---

Just so you know, you should never believe an investigative claim because someone bread-crumbed it. There's no reason to believe it because of bread-crumbs, because there's no proof that they actually did what they bread-crumbed. Breadcrumbs are only useful when a player flips, because you know what role they actually are, and then you know that any breadcrumbs are likely to be sound. If you want a recent example of breadcrumbs killing the town, go read Mini Mafia X, where Wherebugsgo wrote jk three times in a post then claimed jailkeeper, and town believed him.

The only person I think can legitimately breadcrumb and use that to support their claim in this game is the demonhunter, and only if they end up killing a complete innocent, or else it could be the acolyte. Also keep in mind that crumbs should be made before the corresponding day-post.

On January 05 2012 03:02 Blazinghand wrote:
Don't go lynching anyone but Bluelightz if you think he's a legit valid scum. It doesn't matter whether he's an angel or a demon or what. In fact, given that he was staggeringly bad in Student mafia (though he WAS a replacement) it might be good to kill him just because even if he is town he could be useless.

I think we should lynch whoever is the scummiest. If Bluelightz feels scummy to you, put together a case on him and cast your vote like a man. If you think he's probably scummy, and that he'll contribute poorly (as he did in Student mafia), put your money where your mouth is. I can respect that.

This is bad. Killing a useless townie is almost never worth it. A useless townie is still a townie, and they still provide us with a vote and count towards our win condition. It's always better to lynch scum, not lynch someone because he could be scum but it doesn't matter anyways because if he's town he's useless.

In fact, I was leaning town on you at the beginning of the game, but now I think I'm going to have to re-evaluate that somewhat after your recent "case" on Bluelightz. Being bad doesn't make someone scum, so it seems weird that you'd try to attack him for being bad. There's been a lot of talk in the thread so far (though granted, most of it is based on mechanics), so who do you think is scummy? You don't make a case for why bluelightz is scum, just for why he hasn't done anything productive yet.

Regarding Lynch all Lurkers:

If you want to pursue this, you need to make the distinction between lurkers and inactives. Someone who hasn't posted all day cycles is not a lurker. They are an inactive. A lurker is someone who comes in, makes a useless post to appease everyone, and then leaves again, continuing this as necessary to keep pressure off themselves. So, even if you want to lynch all lurkers, you still have to put a modicum of effort into it, to try to figure out who's actually trying to lurk or not. Scum are very likely to be actively lurking if they're lurking. That is, they are reading the thread, and keeping up with new posts and developments while discussing with their scumbuddies, but aren't actually posting in the thread. These are sometimes easy to find, because when pressured, they'll show up nearly immediately to defend themselves before going back to lurking. So, for anyone who wants to lynch all lurkers, are you ready to make the distinction between lurking and being inactive? Someone already brought this up somewhat, when they asked what keeps scum from just staying slightly more active than the most inactive townie, and this is where the distinction comes in. Think about it.

Regarding set-up:

In this game, it feels like the town roles can be used in very versatile ways that people aren't really touching on. For example, the demon-hunter is a vigi for demons, but they can also serve as a detective for angels. There is nothing that protects from attacks besides going to purgatory, so if the demonhunter's target lives without going to purgatory, then they're an angel.

Same thing with the sage. Many people are focusing on the cleansing aspect of the role, but not on the investigative powers. This ties in with the corrupted players as well. While the demons want to corrupt as many townspeople as they can, this also makes it more dangerous for them, as they essentially introduce demon detectives into the game.

What I think a decent strategy would be, for as long as the sage remains alive, is to have corrupted players claim the day after being corrupted, along with their result. This means that as long as we keep the sage alive, the number of corrupted players will always remain at, or below, 1. Obviously, we shouldn't set this in stone, as we should wait until day 3 and see if the sage is still alive, along with the acolyte. From my understanding, demons can't corrupt until night 2, which means that day 3 is the earliest that we have to worry about the votes in the lynch. This means that as town, we should try to play as aggressively as we can on the first two days, when there will be the least confusion and complexity. Ideally, we will be able to kill some sort of angel, and optimally the concealer (This forces the demons to choose between corrupting or using their actions, and gets rid of a powerful anti-town ability).

We also have to keep in mind that in this game, until one faction is eliminated completely, no one can be confirmed innocent. If it comes to light that you aren't a demon, or aren't an angel, and try to use that as proof that you are town, I'll be mad and think you're scum.

I think that early in the game, town will be taking the brunt of the offensive abilities of the angels and demons. However, as the game goes on longer, they will be forced to fight each-other. If the angels only focus on killing the town, the demons will simply be able to lynch them once a day later on, and eliminate their KP to win. When the demons corrupt a player and it is successful, they know this player is town, and so that reduces the pool of player with the angels in it. So, the angels can't let the demons reach this stage of the game, and must use their KP on them as early as possible to reduce this threat. As well, the demons should be helping to find angels to lynch, as it reduces the possible KP against them, keeps the lynch off them, and also makes them less likely to be targeted for investigation or demon-hunter KP, as they look more "pro-town". In fact, I think the best angel strategy would be to use their acolyte to try to target demons, as that will either kill their competition, or let them know who's a townie, and thus who's dangerous.

Any information disadvantages we may incur from the AoD and the Concealer also apply to the other faction, and they should be aware of this as well. Thus, they want to try to eliminate their counterpart's ability to hide information, as this will allow them to maintain perfect information in the game. This also ties into the above paragraph

About voting:

Don't Hammer. While we don't have to worry about corruption until day three, we should still be careful of keeping the lynch under our control. Always check the vote-count before voting, and always vote in the thread along with your PM to ZBot, so that we can see when you voted, as well as who you voted for, before Zbot the count. No one should be hammering a lynch until later in the day if we can help it, as this will give us the most time for discussion and information gathering.

EBWOP: When I say seen him play a game, I mean where I was in it with him, also playing.

On January 06 2012 08:59 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Next, is his altercation with Bluelightz, which I find very odd. Earlier, Palmar noted that he thought "it's unlikely he's scum", but then he felt the need to try to pressure him. So, something that Bluelightz posted must have caused some kind of concern for Palmar. The only thing posted by Bluelightz in this time, was his list of reads, so this must have been what set Palmar off. Pressuring Bluelightz to take a stance was fine, but the way in which Palmar did it was odd. Instead of asking Bluelightz who he would like to lynch, he instead came up with some sort of compulsive vig scenario, which doesn't add anything to the thread, and actually ended up detracting from it (see subsequent discussion with people jumping on the question instead of just discussing the lynch). Also, notice that Palmar is pressuring Bluelightz for giving a list of null and green reads, when this is the exact same thing Palmar has done up to this point in the game. It's hypocritical.

So, after he finally gets an answer from Bluelightz, he still doesn't apply any actual pressure to him. He doesn't vote for him, he doesn't ask for people to vote for him, he just said he might vote for him in the future, which does not create pressure, and is completely different from my experience with town Palmar. Palmar doesn't even attack the bad posts made by Bluelightz, where for example he said he would lynch a lurker instead of naming one. Instead, he acts rather timidly compared to the pro-town Palmar I know. He doesn't even end up answering his own question afterwards, even when asked to, refusing yet again to take a stance on scum.

Bluelightz Indonesia. January 05 2012 21:36. Posts 103 PM Profile Quote #
filter
Okay here's the continuation of my reads

Palmar Iceland. January 05 2012 21:42. Posts 4187 PM Profile Blog Quote #
filter
So who would you lynch Bluelightz?

What if Wiggles is a demon/angel and Palmar is not on his team?
Then Wiggles knows that Palmar is either a townie or the other faction out of Angel/Demon. And that Palmars win condition will require him to kill Wiggles. (except in the True love exception)
If Palmar has a power role and thinks that Wiggles is an angel/demon then he will likely try to investigate or slay wiggles, with his or his team-mates night actions. Alternately he might try to lynch him later on using forced votes and/or make a case against him. None of these actions are good for Wiggles.
As someone regarded as a strong scumhunter Palmar is likely to be the one to figure out that Wiggles is scum and then convince others that wiggles is scum.
In short if Wiggles is scum and Palmar isn't on his team, then Palmar presents a threat to Wiggles and killing him early would help Wiggles team.

On January 07 2012 04:24 risk.nuke wrote:
The thread have really come to a stop since yesterday. I'll write my opinion on who to lynch tonight when I have time to review. You may or may not look forward to it. I don't know if it will be "mindblowing" or "meh".

On January 07 2012 09:04 risk.nuke wrote:
Erandorr is very likely scum. Simply because a non-posting Erandorr is a red Erandorr.

Jackal58 is another person who would likely bleed red. The first thing he does is attack palmar and keeps at it using tunneling and fearmongering, while I am also slightly leaning red on palmar I don't think Jackal would hit him this hard if Jackal was town-aligned, he's just trying to get rid of palmar any means neccersary. He justifys it by saying he always attack palmar day 1 but I think this is just an excuse. He takes a break from his Palmar tunneling to rightfully rage alittle on people listing no-reads but it doesn't mean anything and he haven't contributed anything himself exept tunneling palmar.

On January 07 2012 10:45 Blazinghand wrote:
So, Refallen. Hm. Um, I did some reading.

Reading through your filter it seems like you're acting fairly town. ._. You got some reads and pushed them in a reasonable fashion, and respond to people who talk to you. I have no idea why you're so bad at voting and knowing where to put your vote.

I'm either severely disappointed in your town play or largely convinced by your scum play.

OK so, I think you MIGHT be scum, but you also might be town. I'm substantially more sure of E-dawg being scum because he's hustling us but I still demand explanations for your actions post me-calling-you-out. And if they are insufficient I will devour you.

##Vote: Erandorr

Oh hey blazinghand whats this is your vote announced in the thread?
yeah man it is
oh that's cool that seems like a pro-town thing to do
yeah i would say so
why would you ever not announce your vote in the thread?
dunno.

On January 06 2012 03:52 risk.nuke wrote:
I don't like people posting who they think are town exept when It's in the defense of someone who looks like they are getting lynched. Our job is to find scum. If you think someone is town, you tell them you get a nullread on them or better don't talk about it at all. Belive me bluelightz when I say I don't like a post with a few townreads and no scumreads one bit. There are plenty of reasons why we shouldn't talk about our townreads. It makes it easier for scum to kill our strongest townreads. It makes it harder to discover the motive behind a kill. A scum who belives he is viewed as town won't feel as much pressure. A townie who belives he has confirmed himself might get a bit full of himself and play less optimal.

---

Bluelightz
Bluelightz is playing without a worry in the world. The nature of most of his posts seems completely carefree. When a townie is confronted with suspicious imo they get nervous and tries to find where they messed up and try to explain it. Bluelightz just shrugs it of. + Show Spoiler + Read the top.
+ Show Spoiler +
Going back again to when Palmar asked him who he would like to kill. His initial response was catastrophic. He said "an unspecific lurker" and avoided the pressure of the question. He changes his mind and he changes his target to RoL but on a very weak basis.
Conclusion: He plays carefree, doesn't seem to giving things more then a brief thought before having an opinion which leads to him often changing his mind. Not traits that strikes me as townish in a complicated mafia game.

---

Refallen
What I don't like about refallen is he posts just to look town.+ Show Spoiler +Even though I approve of strategy talk to give us something to talk about day 1 this doesn't fit. This is just empty. There is nothing here that can be of used by town or be discussed about. Fluff.
+ Show Spoiler +
Everyone is not tunneling, coming to the rescue so quickly you don't even properly analyse the situation. Eager to appear protown?
The rest of the post is...
"fluff"
"I don't have a lynch target"
"I Want palmar to start posting"
+ Show Spoiler + This is just a stall post imo. He confirms he knows he is beeing looked at but doesn't write much for a defense. Instead he just says that tomorrow he'll write something usefull.
Conclusion: I don't like his posts so far and I'm suspicious towards his hype followed by nothing but fluff. I'm waiting for his thoughts tomorrow and some better defense wouldn't hurt him.

---

xsksc
xsksc and the meta. What is xsksc up to? I might be wrong but this doesn't feel like the townie xsksc I am used to.

there are two days left why woudl I commit to lynching this soon. I took the topics of the time and wrote my thoughts on them

He plays carefree, doesn't seem to giving things more then a brief thought before having an opinion which leads to him often changing his mind. Not traits that strikes me as townish in a complicated mafia game

On January 06 2012 05:39 risk.nuke wrote:

It depends. If you are having a single one or two people accusing you, you get annoyed. Like I am now now with syllo. Or example in steamship prplhz tried to get me lynched on a bad case. I got annoyed. Then there are situations where you have a majority of people looking suspiciously at you. You've likely messed up and done something to justify their suspicions but you need to defend yourself. If you mess up town mislynch you. There is a situation I would be nervous in.

On January 06 2012 04:18 risk.nuke wrote:
syllo, I started the post about 2 hours ago. I share what I want to share when I want to share it. Don't try and control me and please don't try to meta me. All my games I have a different style because I play varying of my mood.

On January 06 2012 04:56 risk.nuke wrote:
Syllogism, there are two days left why woudl I commit to lynching this soon. I took the topics of the time and wrote my thoughts on them. Then I wanted to see who would comment on it further, what they would say, who would push for their lynch etc. What the hell are you doing? commenting on how useless I am when you don't know my agenda which you just ruined because you didn't think it through. Or were you planning on pushing for my lynch today. Cause if you weren't there is nothing pro-town about calling me out. I'm town and you're forcing me to reveal what I wanted to do. If I had been scum you would had just tipped me off instead of saving it for a case you would write against me.

Blazinghand quit floating around and write something helpfull yourself.

On January 06 2012 12:45 risk.nuke wrote:
I don't want to lynch palmar because first of all he is Palmar and secondly he seems to be missing.
Why should we lynch the (imo) best player in the game in a 2 mafia team setup day 1.+ Show Spoiler +
This is just fearmongering.

@Refallen, it is a townie priority to look town. But what you're doing is not that. You're writing useless posts hoping on a brief glance they will make it look as you're contributing. And when most of your posts are like that I get suspicious. There is nothing wrong or scummy with anyone of your posts. But they are all very easy to make as a scum.

And I have not made a case yet, if you think what I wrote on you and bluelightz are cases I promise you this. When I make a case it will have a conclusion that says this guy is scum and we should lynch his arse.

On January 06 2012 12:51 risk.nuke wrote:
I'm not reading anything that long tonight, it's 5 am and I'm only up because sweden are fucking bosses at hockey!!

On January 07 2012 04:24 risk.nuke wrote:
The thread have really come to a stop since yesterday. I'll write my opinion on who to lynch tonight when I have time to review. You may or may not look forward to it. I don't know if it will be "mindblowing" or "meh".

On January 07 2012 08:40 risk.nuke wrote:
Got bussy writing the daypost for newbie mafia. I'm here now.

On January 07 2012 09:04 risk.nuke wrote:
Erandorr is very likely scum. Simply because a non-posting Erandorr is a red Erandorr.

Jackal58 is another person who would likely bleed red. The first thing he does is attack palmar and keeps at it using tunneling and fearmongering, while I am also slightly leaning red on palmar I don't think Jackal would hit him this hard if Jackal was town-aligned, he's just trying to get rid of palmar any means neccersary. He justifys it by saying he always attack palmar day 1 but I think this is just an excuse. He takes a break from his Palmar tunneling to rightfully rage alittle on people listing no-reads but it doesn't mean anything and he haven't contributed anything himself exept tunneling palmar.

On January 07 2012 09:15 risk.nuke wrote:
Blazinghand what are you on about?

On January 07 2012 11:00 risk.nuke wrote:
Slowly and steadily I'm beeing raised to the top, scumagenda *cough*

On January 06 2012 12:45 risk.nuke wrote:
And I have not made a case yet, if you think what I wrote on you and bluelightz are cases I promise you this. When I make a case it will have a conclusion that says this guy is scum and we should lynch his arse.

@risk.nuke
Isn't carefree play usually a townie trait? How does seeming carefree implicate bluelightz?

I'm not sure what you're meaning here, we're talking about beeing nervous and beeing carefree and I think I answered that. I think your mind is living in a world where mislynches doesn't exist.

@risk.nuke please explain why exactly you felt that those traits do not stike you as townlike?

I don't see the point of lynching palmar in a multiteam setup. Worst case he is town and we just lyched palmar. Best case he is scum and he can't help us find the other scumteam, That's why I got really suspicious of all the vets wanting him out asap, wiggles sort of dodged me because I really liked his initial big post.

I haven't called everyone who votes for me scum wtf?

On January 07 2012 11:00 risk.nuke wrote:
Slowly and steadily I'm beeing raised to the top, scumagenda *cough*

I'm wasn't joking, judging from how I looked it was pretty obvious (or atleast a good chance) scum would slowly push for my lynch to protect their own.

There is no reason not to state what you think, If I were to come in two days and say, well I thought jackal was scummy two days ago people would either not belive me or legitimitly ask me why the hell I didn't say something

Blazinghand was acting high on coffe shouting all over the place how erandorr is hustling us, I didn't much get him.

People doesn't love my townplay

I haven't given any serious contributions because I'm not good day 1 and I know it. And if you want to see one of my case you'll unfortunatly have to wait untill someone says something I can use because I can't magicly spawn cases.

Some people are good at finding scum day1, I'm not so I let them do their thing while I don't them in trying to do something I would probably fail with. Isntead I try to find somehting my own way, and setting a trap isn't scummy. Lying is scummy. Not saying what you were doing afterwards is scummy.

I think your mind is living in a world where mislynches doesn't exist.

If I were a scum why would I not pressure him if as you say I had good reason to, exept if you think I'm refallens scumbuddy

If you think I've contradicted myself you need to go back and reread that or repost it to me so I can correct you

It depends. If you are having a single one or two people accusing you, you get annoyed. Like I am now now with syllo. Or example in steamship prplhz tried to get me lynched on a bad case. I got annoyed. Then there are situations where you have a majority of people looking suspiciously at you. You've likely messed up and done something to justify their suspicions but you need to defend yourself. If you mess up town mislynch you. There is a situation I would be nervous in.

On January 07 2012 11:00 risk.nuke wrote:
Slowly and steadily I'm beeing raised to the top, scumagenda *cough*

On January 08 2012 06:33 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
risk.nuke, does what Palmar say accurately reflect what you had in mind with your "plan"?

On January 08 2012 08:17 risk.nuke wrote:
"Halfhearted defense", what the hell is there to defend myself against? meta, sure let me get my magical metashield of hopes and dreams.

On January 08 2012 09:08 syllogism wrote:

He is going to flip scum, don't worry

On December 28 2011 15:42 ZBot wrote:
Vote count for the Day 1 Lynch.

With 18 alive, 10 votes are required to lynch.

Current votes:

Erandorr (7): Blazinghand, -Blazinghand, Palmar, Blazinghand, Grackaroni, -Blazinghand, Blazinghand, Bluelightz, Tyrran, -Palmar, -Bluelightz, Cwave, HarbingerOfDoom, -Grackaroni, syllogism, risk.nuke, Grackaroni

risk.nuke (7): Blazinghand, -Blazinghand, syllogism, Refallen, Dirkzor, Zephirdd, layabout, Erandorr, Mr. Wiggles, Grackaroni, Palmar, -syllogism, -Grackaroni

Voting System:

This game utilizes the Instant Majority Lynch system. If at any point during the day over half the players alive are voting to lynch a particular player, that player will be instantly lynched, and the night will immediately begin.

On January 08 2012 09:45 ZBot wrote:

Lynched:

Erandorr (10): Blazinghand, -Blazinghand, Palmar, Blazinghand, Grackaroni, -Blazinghand, Blazinghand, Bluelightz, Tyrran, -Palmar, -Bluelightz, Cwave, HarbingerOfDoom, -Grackaroni, syllogism, risk.nuke, Grackaroni, Jackal58, Mr. Wiggles, layabout

Current votes:

risk.nuke (4): Blazinghand, -Blazinghand, syllogism, Refallen, Dirkzor, Zephirdd, layabout, Erandorr, Mr. Wiggles, Grackaroni, Palmar, -syllogism, -Grackaroni, -Refallen, -Mr. Wiggles, -layabout

On January 08 2012 07:02 syllogism wrote:
Day ends in 3 hours, but within an hour or two is fine. I'm fine with lynching either erandorr/risk

On January 08 2012 08:32 syllogism wrote:
How many do we have around? I'm fine with switching to erandorr, I'm virtually certain that erandorr is scum and only very convinced that risk is

On January 08 2012 08:18 Blazinghand wrote:
risk.nuke if you're town, maybe you can pull some amazing argument out of your ass. If you don't think you can, please try to be helpful. Clock's ticking.

On January 08 2012 08:34 Blazinghand wrote:
Man I'm amazed nobody understands that Erandorr is hustlin us as I have been saying

On January 08 2012 08:35 Grackaroni wrote:
I'm still here if we want to re-switch

On January 08 2012 08:36 Blazinghand wrote:
risk.nuke you haven't voted? ._. cmon man.

pm

to: zbot
subject: purgatory
body: ##Vote Erandorr

On January 08 2012 08:41 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
I'm around. Why the change of heart?

On January 08 2012 08:48 Grackaroni wrote:
I'm going to go back to Erandorr then, there's no harm in doing it I'll be here if we can't secure enough votes.

On January 08 2012 08:47 Blazinghand wrote:


OH WOW GREAT ARGUMENT YOU CONVINCE ME NOW

On January 08 2012 08:49 Blazinghand wrote:


You made an argument that consisted of "well you guys shouldn't lynch me because i'm town"

Really? Why would you even say that.

On January 08 2012 08:48 Grackaroni wrote:
I'm going to go back to Erandorr then, there's no harm in doing it I'll be here if we can't secure enough votes.

On January 08 2012 08:58 syllogism wrote:
No I still think risk is scum, but I'm pretty much certain that erandorr is.

On January 08 2012 09:17 Refallen wrote:
Just woke up. Are we switching to erandorr? Why not risk? And how long do we have?

On January 08 2012 09:27 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
If we're going to lynch Erandorr, you still need two more people besides me. Who are they?

I don't want a no-lynch.

On January 08 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote:
No you guys come over to Erandorr we still have like 10ish minutes

On January 08 2012 09:33 layabout wrote:
oh shit it is about 10-15

On January 08 2012 09:33 Refallen wrote:
I'm going to swich in about 5 minutes if its clear no one is switching to risk

On January 08 2012 09:35 Jackal58 wrote:
Since Palmar isn't happening I switched to Erandorr.
Between he and risk I'd rather have risk around another day. Erandorr's alignment will be impossible to determine by his activity.

I think RoL did vote but he spelled it wrong. Dunno if that matters or not.

On January 08 2012 09:36 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
If two people switch to Erandorr, I'll hammer. Otherwise, move back onto risk.

RoL, have you read "the last few pages" yet, it's been a half hour.

On January 08 2012 09:39 layabout wrote:
if you switch back to risk will we have enough?
i am willing to switch to eran if necessary

On January 08 2012 09:39 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
There's 11 minutes left. Zbot will only update two more times. Somebody switch, post, and I'll hammer.

risk.nuke (4): Blazinghand, -Blazinghand, syllogism, Refallen, Dirkzor, Zephirdd, layabout, Erandorr, Mr. Wiggles, Grackaroni, Palmar, -syllogism, -Grackaroni, -Refallen, -Mr. Wiggles, -layabout

Votes are counted in the order they are received, correct?

Yes.

Will Zbot count votes received during the same refresh cycle after majority has been reached?

Once majority has been reached, voting is over and all subsequent votes are ignored.

On January 08 2012 09:45 ZBot wrote:

Lynched:

Erandorr (10): Blazinghand, -Blazinghand, Palmar, Blazinghand, Grackaroni, -Blazinghand, Blazinghand, Bluelightz, Tyrran, -Palmar, -Bluelightz, Cwave, HarbingerOfDoom, -Grackaroni, syllogism, risk.nuke, Grackaroni, Jackal58, Mr. Wiggles, layabout

Current votes:

risk.nuke (4): Blazinghand, -Blazinghand, syllogism, Refallen, Dirkzor, Zephirdd, layabout, Erandorr, Mr. Wiggles, Grackaroni, Palmar, -syllogism, -Grackaroni, -Refallen, -Mr. Wiggles, -layabout

Tyrran (1): HarbingerOfDoom, Bluelightz, -HarbingerOfDoom

RebirthOfLeGenD (0): Blazinghand, Bluelightz, -Blazinghand, -Bluelightz

Palmar (0): Mr. Wiggles, Jackal58, Refallen, Blazinghand, -Blazinghand, -Refallen, -Mr. Wiggles, -Jackal58

Refallen (0): Blazinghand, -Blazinghand

Bluelightz (0): Blazinghand, -Blazinghand, Blazinghand, -Blazinghand

Mr. Wiggles (0): Zephirdd, Palmar, -Palmar, -Zephirdd

Dirkzor (0): Blazinghand, -Blazinghand

HarbingerOfDoom (0): Grackaroni, -Grackaroni

Grackaroni (0): layabout, -layabout

On January 08 2012 09:43 Refallen wrote:
Risk if you're some kind of role you should claim, just pointing ouy

On January 08 2012 09:44 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:

I did and I cast my vote for Erandorr through the PM thing. Here is my reasoning. Switching from target A to target B is highly unlikely to ever hit a scum barring a DT check (This is more true in town/scum no third faction games, but still holds true here) no second bandwagon should gain momentum if its scum because the scum wouldn't let it happen. That being said, since my other post only about 6-7 pages have happened in game iirc and somehow risk.nuke attained a near majority which is insane. There is no way you are going to hit scum with that kind of rapid vote switch and in fact, that somewhat incriminates Erandorr because why else would a vote switch happen so rapidly?

I read some of Risk's posts, admittedly not all, but he didn't seem too bad from my point of view, I don't know what the hell palmar is getting at. But I only inferred that from his posts on pages 34-36ish since I know we are nearing the deadline.

Lastly, I read Blazinghand's analysis of Erandorr which seemed good, in the sense that I agree that Erandorr comes off as a disconcerned scum on D1.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=298603&currentpage=37#723

So I am keeping my vote on Erandorr, anyone on the risk.nuke lynch is suspect for jumping ship so hard, if erandorr flips scum then Palmar deserves a hard look.

I also have a plan I have been considering, I plan on enlightening you all during the night phase assuming I can flesh out all the weird possibilities in this set up.

Suggesting plans, including weird lynching strategies, is a null tell unless the plan in question is very pro town or otherwise demonstrates a pro town mindset.

It can change from null to something else depending on who is saying it. If it's a player who isn't known for great scum play and wouldn't assume that majority of players to react in the same way I did (i.e. thinking that suggesting dumb plans is often towny), then it's probably slightly townly.

If for instance someone is known for always coming up with plans and is smart, and then suggests a rather weak plan, it could be suspicious as then it seems like he is suggesting a plan only because he is known for doing that as town.

I don't think I can generalize it better than that, and as I said I'm not reading the plan or your analysis of the plan. If you aren't sure, it's better to treat it as a null tell.

On January 09 2012 04:16 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:
Are people seriously trying to implicate me on the basis of "soft-defending" risk by voting Erandorr instead?

-HoD makes it 6-6 risk/eran with just over 3 hours to go to avoid a no lynch he votes for Eran which makes 6-6 whilst a risk vote would have made it 7-5
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13044935

On November 17 2011 01:24 risk.nuke wrote:
##Vote Forumite

I'm not okey with you not responding to a direct vote against you.

On November 17 2011 02:21 risk.nuke wrote:

Neither and both. You're FoSing two people on nothing. And then there is a similar thing on Sabini. Add to that letting the vote on you slip by without a hint of defense from your side. I don't know what you are doing but it is not pro-town play and that is why I vote for you.

On November 17 2011 06:32 risk.nuke wrote:
Okey, but isn't this exacly one of those situations where we connected two people and should not lynch both of them incase they are town.

##Vote Kenpachi

On November 17 2011 06:47 risk.nuke wrote:

If kenpachi is green, then lanaia probably isn't scum.
If kenpachi is red we got a scumkill even if that doesn't necessarily mean lanaia is his buddy.

If lanai is green that means nothing for kenpachis alignment.
If lanai is red then kenpachi is scum.

I think we learn more from knowing kenpachis alignment.

On January 09 2012 05:29 Spaackle wrote:
@RofL While I agree that we need a plan for day 2, yours is not the one I would go with. Mass claiming like that will only paint a target on our blues for the scumteams. We'll lose our blue powers so fast that we'll get almost no use out of them, and where will we be then?

@risk


I thought you hated meta arguments?

Eventually he became aggressive, but he wasn't right off the bat. If my meta reason is bollocks, then what, did I magically post that in a prior game to cover my ass in this one? Don't be dense.

Also, if you were in this game, you would know that this is his vote being "thrown around" is the farthest thing from the truth.

On January 09 2012 05:44 Jackal58 wrote:

It doesn't take a 3000 word essay to point out the obvious.
/No sarcasm.

It doesn't take a 3000 word essay to point out the obvious.

No mafia has the opportunity to claim a blue role without instantly getting caught and killed. There is a counter claim, we will figure it out, and the scum faction loses a player and all we lose is 1 confirmed townie and a voting block in the worst case scenario for us, but regardless they lose the mafia.

Why wouldn't the scum team know who there own player is? That's like my mom not knowing who I am when shes sober. The latter half is just asusmign the townies and blues are being dicks and lying when its incredibly anti-town to do.

On January 10 2012 03:16 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:
Why I think I was put in purgatory:
I think Palmar and/or his team mistakenly believed that I was the demon hunter due to these posts:
+ Show Spoiler +
Unfortunately for the demons, and fortunately for us, they were incorrect and Palmar got stabbed in the face. (Yes, it is possible that it was the acolyte, but why would the angels kill someone they could get lynched when lynching is the only way for us to kill the angels?)

fortunately for us, they were incorrect and Palmar got stabbed in the face

The post serves to help clarify the situation and give town some potentially useful information, clarity and information are both valuable to town. Ideally it also lowers suspicion on myself, which seeing as I know I am town, is also good for town. Also, as I said, it is NOT WIFOM if the goal is to roleblock. Not doing it doesn't roleblock me, it isn't like if I was the demon hunter I'd go "better not send in a night action in case I get roleblocked!" Roleblocking stops someone from using their role if roleblock them, and doesn't if you don't do it.

WIFOM is they killed x, he was suspicious of y! Does that mean y is scum, or they want us to think y is scum? Yes, it is possible they wanted to increase suspicion on me as well, and that part is subject to WIFOM'ing. (They wanted to make me more suspicious, so that actually makes me less suspicious, but they would know that so it is more suspicious....etc etc etc)

On January 10 2012 03:08 layabout wrote:
Suspicious bastards:
risk.nuke If you do not know why he is here then you aren't reading the thread
Refallen Some found him scummy day1 but the lie about voting erandorr is one of the most anti-town acts thusfar
Tyrran Not posted a whole lot, persistently called scum but has done nothing to help town nor suggest townie.
Dirkzor I literally just wrote why (he is a fairly new addition)
RoL For suggesting a plan that could easily have caused lylo day 4 with no blues and his actions around lynch-time.
Jackal? His actions around lynch time and lack of justification and lack of willingness to discuss. (least scummy)
(there is town there but i think these players should receive heightened attention)

Care to anything about it?

Lists without reasons are pretty useless filler.

Why would you make chaos on purpose to switch from a guy that you find scummy to a guy you find more scummy?

On January 08 2012 21:46 syllogism wrote:
Hello Dirkzor. Are you scum or just stupid? Do you realize that I'm the one who started the risk wagon and pretty much the reason he was sitting at 9 votes (-1 hammer) for something like several hours? Do you think my plan was to bus my team mate for the whole day, wait until he was almost lynched and then do a last minute switch to someone else? Remember, anyone could have hammered him at any point before the switch. How likely do you think it is for scum to bus a team mate in a setup like this? What was the motivation?

On January 08 2012 21:55 Dirkzor wrote:
I might be stupid... but with a 2 team setup they could both _not_ be on your team. I can just not find any real reason for you to switch unless risk's defence convinced you or Erandorr did something to enhance his case. Neither of which happened.

I realized you have pointed towards risk the whole day and criticized his first post. It only enhanced my question: Why the change?

On January 09 2012 04:45 Dirkzor wrote:
See, all i have is your word for it.

But i guess we can lynch him and if he flips town we lynch you...

On January 09 2012 07:06 Dirkzor wrote:
I don't like his last few posts. I just feel that either syllo, palmar or jackal are scum. (or 2 of the 3) on the account on how they interact.

But I'm way to tired now to try to figure out who.

On January 09 2012 20:32 Dirkzor wrote:
I don't think Risk is a bad lynch target. But I wouldn't mind hitting Cwave.

On January 09 2012 20:37 Dirkzor wrote:
Actually:

##Vote Cwave

Either he is scum with palmar or he is a townie with a bad read (on me).

On January 10 2012 03:30 Dirkzor wrote:


You still think syllo is on palmars team? If yes, so you think I'm on that team aswell? Because thats a crap theory. You just think i'm palmars scumbuddy because he called me town several times the first day - or?

I don't want to lynch Cwave. I wanted him to think for himself! + Show Spoiler + And that he have. Within the last ½ day he have provided not 1, but 3 post with original thoughts. Thats more then he have done before. And the fact that his conclusions are okay (well not one about AoD, but he already pulled that one back) he actually comes out looking good.


It was a pure pressure vote and it worked.

Also i noted that Tyrran came after me. Totally justified since all I did was voting for Cwave with no real reason. But having in mind that he knows he is already under suspicion he wants to find another target.

Lastly I want to look at this post:
+ Show Spoiler +

The first point he makes is the exact same one i made earlier.

How is asking and answering Palmars question buddying up to him? I fail to see that. And the part about risk's plan Refallen actually cut the end of the post from Cwave where he answered the question from Palmar. Palmar never clarified which plan he was talking about - it was kinda obvious what he meant but it could also easily be misunderstood if cwave just went through risk's filter looking for a plan.

Last Refallen conclude that if Risk is demon Cwave must be too. While it is possible that palmar was bussing risk I find it unlikely. So Refallen is just trying to jump an easy wagon? His case just seemed forced as if he wanted Cwave to appear scummy because I already voted for him.

Either way I'm unvoting Cwave. That vote did what was intended.

On January 10 2012 08:55 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Wow, Blazinghand, you beat me to it. (Also sorry for not being around, University just started back up)

I was basically going to post something like:



This is a very weak criticism, as RoL will always say that he thought his plan was good for town, especially if he is scum. What you're saying only holds under the assumption he is town, and we can all know he is town, which we obviously don't. Pushing a bad plan doesn't automatically make you scum, but you have to look at the plan, the player, and how they're pushing it. There's also the difference between a bad plan, and an anti-town plan. A bad plan just won't work, an anti-town plan will hurt the town.

Is active during the night, pushing a plan that is arguably anti-town

On January 11 2012 02:22 Dirkzor wrote:
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK

I had a really long post about RoL, Tyrran and Risk, then i closed the tab it was in on mistake =/. I don't want to write it again now.

The short version. RoL is a bad lynch, Risk is a good lynch, Tyrran is the best lynch.

I'm going to eat now and then i'll try to rewrite it.

@Lay want me to answer your antitown behaviour case? Just seems like we moved on to someelse and an answer to that would disrupt this discussion. I will if you, or others, want me to.

On January 10 2012 19:48 Blazinghand wrote:


You don't know the alignment of the people on the wagon either; but here's the thing-- if RoL is scum, I don't give a dick about who agrees with me or not. Maybe he's the 2nd demon and angels are trying to wipe the demons quick. Maybe he's an angel and the two demons are trying to get back into the game.

Or maybe all that matters is my analysis is spot-on, he's definitely scum, and he still hasn't come here to defend himself.

If you have a problem with my analysis, say it. If not, get out of my way.

On January 11 2012 04:08 Blazinghand wrote:


There's no question he's obvious scum

When i joined that game a lot had happened. I caught one scum and i was trying to find the other. My mindset was very much a case of, he has said X in this post this specific thing could be scummy IF... . I was looking for small things and trying to make them scummy rather than taking an objective approach and using processes such as elimination or trying to look at general behavioural patterns. I had a hard time discriminating between bad, anti-town and scummy

Syllogisms responses essentially changed my approach

I had been looking for reasons that would people scum, i was forcing my analysis. But then i realised that Tunkeg's proposing his anti-town plan was not a scummy action and his subsequent behaviour seemed green. I then turned my full attention back to xtfftc and velinath and BH voted him with me and BL the goon surrendered and we won and there was hip hop.

On January 12 2012 02:08 Jackal58 wrote:

Ya I believe I have apologized for being impulsive before. And wrong. And no I didn't apologize to Erandorr because Erandorr was max derp. If it makes you feel better next time I vote for somebody I'll post DIE MOTHERFUCKER along with it.

On January 11 2012 08:16 Jackal58 wrote:

I'd assume risk.nuke since his vote is on him.

I'm leaving my vote on diz for the moment because he is apparently not going to get hammered anytime soon. Also because he's scum. We have 5 scum left. More than enough to kill either risk or RoL atm. As that hasn't happened yet it's possible we have 1 from each team hanging there. I'm leaving for the evening so please refrain from doing anything stupid for the next couple of hours. Like a massive vote switch. Unless you all want to switch to diz cause like he is scum and all.

On January 11 2012 23:45 Jackal58 wrote:

You are best lynch. But I'm not going to hold my breath. Let's see if there is a reason for voting for somebody nobody else is interested in voting today.
##Vote: risk.nuke.

If you flip town risk I am sorry.
And now I await everybody telling me how scummy I am for hammering you.

On January 13 2012 03:34 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:

If you think this, I don't know what to tell you. Say a day starts with 1 corrupted town, 3 demons, and 3 angels. In this situation, demons win nearly 100% of the time. Given the fact that there are investigative roles and an anti-corruption role, demons are definitely not looking to drag this game out more than they have to so long as those roles are still alive.

On January 13 2012 04:21 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:

What? He said an angel hit on a townie was bad for demons, and that is absolutely false. If demons get down to that scenario, they lynch an angel, 2/3 chance they remove a potential kp and win automatically. Then 1/3 chance they get the observer, then angels need to get both hits through the twisting/sending to purgatory, so they need to hit the only 2 unprotected of the 4. So 1/18 total chance of angel win if it gets down to that scenario, and that is assuming they know which one is town out of the 4. Lower if they don't. So if angels hit nothing but town, which he claims is bad for demons, the demons will very likely win. Hell, even if they don't have a corrupted town left alive and it is a regular vt, town gets a minor victory by killing all angels, so it would be the same result anyway unless the townie decides to ignore that minor win condition.

But just proving the point that demons don't mind townies being dead.

On January 11 2012 23:53 Bluelightz wrote:
._. sorry risk

On January 13 2012 08:24 Spaackle wrote:
I'll be around for a little while, so feel free to ask/tell/compliment/insult me anything.

On January 13 2012 09:07 Grackaroni wrote:
@Layabout: Do you really think that Bluelightz would only post bullshit posts as scum? I think it's just his general style to make posts to say he's reading the thread or that he is going to school/sleep and asking people to ask him questions.
Imagine he is scum this game. Do you think that he would act like this as town as well or is his scum play just worse than his not yet seen town play.

On January 13 2012 11:10 Zephirdd wrote:


Or maybe he had the same logic as me? At least this now confirms syllo as town.

MrWiggles was town as well; He couldn't possibly be Demon(see his Palmar case). We just won't know if he was a blue or not.

TBH that was a poor decision by the AoD, unless he had actually found an Angel and was ready to push him. His last actions were attacking RoL. Apply Occam's Razor(The correct solution is usually the simplest one),

##Vote RoL

I just think it's a waste of game mechanics; Killing someone who people didn't knew would create a bigger confusion, as in "we don't know how many demons live". MrWiggles was obviously not a Demon, so it is kind of a waste of a mechanic. Granted, we don't know if he was a blue, but I don't think it matters as much at this point

On January 14 2012 06:13 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:

This is such sound logic! I am going to kill one of my attackers further implicating me.