Responsibility Mafia!

On December 21 2011 02:05 GMarshal wrote:

Sure, it is because I hate hydras, with a burning passion.

On December 21 2011 02:46 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
Don't do it!

Chezinu its fine to keep acting weird for a bit, but realize your not helping town by confusing things.
I'm not down for killing the hydra, curu and me are buds.

On December 17 2011 12:44 ZBot wrote:
[b][blue]
L (0): kitaman27, -kitaman27

On December 21 2011 12:33 LSB wrote:
I'm against the Foolishness lynch simply because it's a bad idea to lynch a vet day 1. Typically vets are the ones shot first, so there is a high probability that even if we don't lynch a vet, the vet still won't live to see day 2.

On December 21 2011 13:51 Foolishness wrote:
I will support BC in everything at this point because he used the word asshattery.

On December 22 2011 09:28 wherebugsgo wrote:
yeah, while I think GM is probably scum too I don't think we should get off LSB. A lot of people have said GM is scum. I really doubt all of them are wrong, but we realistically can't afford to try to lynch GM so little time left in the day.

On December 22 2011 09:51 Foolishness wrote:
##Vote: LSB

I will be back before day ends to change if necessary. I'm still against but as always I'd rather lynch than no lynch.

+ Show Spoiler +

On December 22 2011 10:22 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
##Vote: LSB

I sped read through the posts. I have a general picture of things going on. I don't feel that we have a great case against LSB, but I'd rather lynch then not. I have feelings, but no hard evidence. I'm one of those guys who needs a bit extra time, and yes I'm being apologetic about it. Sorry I didn't have the proper amount of attention to spend on this today. I will only get better, I doubt its possible to get worse then I've posted today. Unless I was Chezinu...

On December 22 2011 10:31 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm with ya Kita, but what can ya do? Apparently I'm an idiot who doesn't make any sense, so I'm certainly not going to be convincing anyone. Do you think your half-hearted pseudo-case is going to convince people? If you do, count me in the number of "Absolutely Willing To Switch to GM".

On December 22 2011 10:35 Jackal58 wrote:
Are they both scum Kita? or just LSB? Others have been willing to vote elsewhere but I'm imploring them to consolidate on LSB. If somebody needs to take responsibility for this lynch I will do so. I am going to push everybody to LSB. Even you Kita. If I'm wrong I'm wrong. If you guys feel a need to exact retribution from me if I'm wrong so be it. But I'm taking responsibility. Vote LSB. Don't split the lynch. I did everything I could to make sure that happened in 48. You're not emulating me are you Kita? Vote LSB.

On December 22 2011 13:33 Foolishness wrote:
##Unvote: LSB
##Vote: GMarshal

aaawwwwwww yeah!

On December 22 2011 13:51 SamuelLJackson wrote:
I'm inclined to believe GM's claim. He has no reason to counterclaim at this point if he is scum, there's no real gain to it for scum to fake that.

Likewise LSB's claim makes no sense for scum either unless he has a night role that he want to use before death. That their role names are different should absolutely not be factored in as you can be sure Ver would have named identical roles different things especially after the debacle of the previous Incognito game where people were using role names and abilities to try to determine alignment.

What they've both claimed is a role that is impossible to fulfil as scum.

At this point I'd rather lynch Chezinu or Foolishness, both of whom have shown that despite prodding neither is posting with Town's interests at heart. Chezinu is being blatantly anti-Town with his posting still under the disguise of "Chezinu is Chezinu."

On December 23 2011 02:24 VisceraEyes wrote:
What about my Traitor theory guys? Hey! Hey! What about my Traitor theory? Everyone's ignoring it!

On December 23 2011 02:39 SamuelLJackson wrote:


I'd rather a lynch of him than a no lynch or we just have a repeat of day 1 with no lynch information. Of course I would've preferred Foolishness or Chezinu more but unfortunately by the time I got home it was too late to solidly put something together. I wasn't even expecting to be here for the lynch since the game had started at 11:30 EST and I wasn't expecting to be home until after that but the deadline was pushed back half an hour.

Is Sheth still on your radar kita? What about GMarshal?

/Curu

On December 23 2011 03:02 VisceraEyes wrote:


Unless they're just expecting him to die tonight to town KP.

How likely do you think it is that scum KP go up if they add the Traitor to their number Kita?

On December 23 2011 05:35 VisceraEyes wrote:


Would you say that you're willing to lynch GM if scum doesn't die tonight Kita?

On December 23 2011 14:14 Foolishness wrote:
Please note all the players who have now decided to call me town right before day ends. And please note wherebugsgo

On December 23 2011 14:32 L wrote:
GM seems to have lied about his target in order to lessen the chance that his shot would be medic'd/intercepted/roleblocked/whatevered. His target was probably one of his greens to throw off suspicion, so he probably didn't shoot Jackal. Palmar's shot was claimed.

This means GM either shot VisceraEyes or SamuelLJackson

I'm gonna go back and look through his post list to see if he gave any indication of suspicion with respect to either of them.

On December 23 2011 15:01 L wrote:

Why wouldn't he? Withholding the information until the last second is a hyper pro-town move. Mafia don't need any additional information and his list is perfectly legible when you recognize that he lied about the RoL shot.

On December 24 2011 04:26 syllogism wrote:
If that's a waste of time, could you tell us who you would lynch? You placeholder voted yesterday and I don't see a single hint in your filter of you even implying who you find scummy

On December 24 2011 16:43 prplhz wrote:
As for me changing my opinion, I don't think I am the greatest scum hunter ever. The most valuable thing I can contribute is my own opinion, but I think that can be wrong. That's why I throw ideas out there and then I see if people latch on to them. There are 10 other townies in this game, if what I am saying is prudent then some of them will listen to it and back me up. For the BloodyC0bbler analysis I got feedback from like three people, one of them turned out to be the traitor, and wherebugsgo didn't like it. That's why I dropped it, it's probably not a good lynch if nobody likes it as a lynch. I still find him scummy though and I'd like to lynch him if people come around, because people will come around if they realize he's a good lynch.

On December 24 2011 19:25 syllogism wrote:

This looks exactly like his town play and would be pretty much the last person I would lynch today. I would like to lynch one of the people who have apparently decided not to play the game as by this point it's far more likely that they aren't just busy but rather are using it as a cover. Out of them BC would be my #1 choice.

On December 25 2011 20:11 wherebugsgo wrote:
prpl are you seriously still this bad or are you actually scum this game?

On December 24 2011 14:46 L wrote:

RE: Lynch choice.

I don't have one quite yet because the day's going super slow and my suspicions aren't confirmed.
But GGQ is the only person who Jackal's filter throws suspicion onto but I haven't had time to look through his posts properly yet. Also seems conflicting that his analysis, if I recall correctly, said that jackal was mafia killed. He wouldn't want to give that answer if that's why mafia hit jackal.

So I'm kinda looking through posts atm to see if anything else pops up.

On December 28 2011 14:10 prplhz wrote:
I claim wherebugsgo.

GOD THAT FELT GOOD

On December 29 2011 04:11 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
Right off the bat early on in the game he noticed the vote count was off. And he had already voted something. For me when I'm town I never look at the voting count amount until much later.

On December 29 2011 04:11 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
He also "Expects more" from Foolishness, BC and GM" So, so far he has been curious or expected more from 4 confirmed townies and myself who is a townie as well.

On December 29 2011 04:11 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
When the Vigilante showdown AKA "LSB vs GM two vigilantes of different names" occurred his solution was terrible from a town point of view. He wanted them to have one shoot the other one and for the other one to shoot someone who "appears townie". This was I believe the first time I really looked at Kita as Scum . This seems to me silly, because it ends up killing everyone, not really helping us by giving us information and in the end is just a bad idea. We'd like our vigilantes to stay alive as at that point we really didn't know how many we had. I'm sure you can figure out the other reasons this was a bad idea.

On December 22 2011 12:13 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
I'd say leave them both alive, and only let them shoot each other. Clearly the one who really was vigilante prevails. Or if there both vigilante they both die. o.o; This seems like a solid idea to me. And we could use our lynch today on someone else.

On December 22 2011 12:13 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
He then says that he wouldn't mind putting 7-8 votes on a lurker (Sheth, myself), but then really never tries to do that at all. He almost instantly changes his thought process and goes after someone else. Honestly I think it would have been smart to try and put more votes on me. I wouldn't have answered, but if I was just scumlurking then it would have pressured me out into at least saying something.

On December 22 2011 12:13 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
He is then very curious about GM and his role and if he is roleblocked. I think it VERY likely that GM was in fact roleblocked. He was the obvious best choice for mafia to role block hands down. Kitaman27 then proceeds to ask "Would your bullet be refunded?" He is very curious about this townies power and what would happen if he was roleblocked. Just an interesting point for sure.

On December 22 2011 12:13 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
He then proceeds to say in his big list that he is "leaning town on bugs" and that his main lynch candidate is on Prplhz. I don't know why he stopped pressuring the lurker (myself) or why he instantly went onto Prplhz here. I was very happy with what I'd seen from prplhz at this point. Syllogism was as well, pointing out that "prplhz has appeared very protown". Bugs then proceeded to try and start suspicion against Prplhz by asking if he was just bad in general or only as scum. Something I also thought was out of place. This didn't go anywhere and then he Bugs proceeds to switch his case onto BC when no one else agrees with voting out Prplhz. Kitaman27 has never really caused ANYONE major pressure. He hasn't had a passion of scum hunting. He has in the end done very nearly nothing for us. He should have at least kept up his pressure on the lurker (Myself) and been more passionate against Prplhz if he truly felt he was scummy.

On December 22 2011 12:13 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
After Prplhz reveals that he had killed WhereBugsGo Kita says sorry for accusing Prplhz. He was very against apologizing early and one of the reads early that we had was that in most cases here scum would be apologetic and simply try not to die by lynch or agravating someone by trigger or simply vig shot.

On December 29 2011 07:09 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
What do you think about me saying I'm sure RoL is telling the truth and thus town? I can prove this, so please be careful on how you answer.

On December 29 2011 07:09 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
L / Syllogism / Chezinu / Bumatlarge would be the 4. Do you think this situation isn't possible? I veer off point here.

On December 29 2011 07:42 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
Would you please just answer this one thing for me? (What do you think about RoL saying he shot BC and is thus town?)

On December 29 2011 07:42 Liquid`Sheth wrote:

And I never said those 4 were scum. I said 3/4 would have to be scum, you didn't really read my post very well you kind of just chopped my post into small quotes and answered them out of context.

On December 29 2011 07:42 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
Would you please just answer this one thing for me? (What do you think about RoL saying he shot BC and is thus town?)

On December 21 2011 13:48 L wrote:
Why would I ever give a blue read like that? Because there are 6 people in this game that I consider substantially better than me at reading roles (its really never been my strong point), and given that 25% of the game or more is anti-town, the probability of anti-town having 1 or 2 of those people is excessively high.

List of people that I think are better than me at reading roles for future reference:

1. Foolishness
4. kitaman27
6. SamuelLJackson
13. Chezinu
16. BloodyC0bbler
17. LSB

On December 22 2011 00:47 L wrote:
RE: Metric
I was hoping to be able to say it when I woke up, but the thread's been confirming how I thought the game would roll out since I went to sleep, so I want the trap to sit out there a bit more. Give it another hour and a bit.

On December 29 2011 09:55 L wrote:
RE: Votes on me.

I just read through the thread, and the argument for shooting me is that someone crumbed a shot, then didn't shoot me, ergo I must be mafia.

This is odd for two very short reasons:

1) The exact same thing happened for RoL, who has a mountain of lies and bullshit to his name.

2) It would be very easy to RB foolishness if I was a townie to attempt to train on me the next day and secure the win.

So we're in a position in which mafia needs a SINGLE person from town to disbelieve an open and closed mafia case in front of them in order to defuse the lynch. Who steps up to the plate and tries to softpush me, then realizes he's an idiot and needs to go balls in because his case is terrible? bumatlarge. Who's his mafia cohort in this, a person who was ostensibly going to get vig hit tonight? Kitaman. Both of them have done relatively little for the entire game, both played very concilliatory day 1. Everything fits.

Welp, Kitaman/bumatlarge/RoL for mafia fits pretty well. If Sheth was mafia he'd probably have been replaced quite a while back. Thanks for outting yourselves, buddies.

On December 22 2011 06:33 L wrote:
15. bumatlarge -- Huge content filled posts designed to spur discussion and an early vote. Very town.

On December 31 2011 00:43 syllogism wrote:
Leaning scum based on my last read, I'll probably have time to reread him later today

On December 31 2011 14:00 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Calling my shot on Syllogism

On December 31 2011 14:20 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
Why didn't you call it Kita ? o.O Also, I shot Meapak, Chezinu, but I was roleblocked. So ended up not mattering. Wow, crazy night.

On December 31 2011 14:23 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
Kita, why would you shoot syllo? Just cuz he made a case against you? =X

On January 01 2012 14:47 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Bum please think for a second. No one has claimed a hit on prp. Therefore either Kita or I have to be telling the truth. I already have confirmation from Ver that I no longer have my shot. It's really simple. Kita confirms/denies he still has his shot. If he still has his shot then we lynch Sheth and win. If he claims to not have his shot he's lying but I'm more than happy to flip town to prove him wrong since we have one mislynch. So until kita comes in and gives us a status about his shot we should be voting Sheth since he's scum (I think kita is town but maybe he'll surprise me and lie about his shot).

So reread and rethink bum because atm you're on the wrong track.

And bum your sitaution having both Sheth and I claim rb if syllo doesn't die is extremely flimsy. I shot syllo. Let's wait for kita to give us status on his shot before you decide I'm scum.

On January 02 2012 00:58 chaoser wrote:
Happy New Years Guys!

On December 29 2011 04:11 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
KITAMAN27
This is purely many little things, some bigger things and everything I find even remotely fishy about "Kitaman27"


Right off the bat early on in the game he noticed the vote count was off. And he had already voted something. For me when I'm town I never look at the voting count amount until much later.

He was curious about both "chaoser and gm" for quite a big part of the early game. Pretty much his only post besides worrying about a lurker (Sheth, myself).

He also "Expects more" from Foolishness, BC and GM" So, so far he has been curious or expected more from 4 confirmed townies and myself who is a townie as well.

He then proceeds to say that it is tough to make a serious case against someone who only has two posts containing information he then says though that it is "not half-hearted". This is a blatant contradiction, its very hard to tell anything from just two posts and I find it weird that he wants to push someone based off of two posts. He then uses the words "would like to see him dead"

When the Vigilante showdown AKA "LSB vs GM two vigilantes of different names" occurred his solution was terrible from a town point of view. He wanted them to have one shoot the other one and for the other one to shoot someone who "appears townie". This was I believe the first time I really looked at Kita as Scum . This seems to me silly, because it ends up killing everyone, not really helping us by giving us information and in the end is just a bad idea. We'd like our vigilantes to stay alive as at that point we really didn't know how many we had. I'm sure you can figure out the other reasons this was a bad idea.

He then is not suspicious of RoL, but says that he "hopes to hear from RoL". This doesn't seem at all negative and if RoL is mafia as well as Kita it points to Kita reminding RoL to post here more.

He then says that he wouldn't mind putting 7-8 votes on a lurker (Sheth, myself), but then really never tries to do that at all. He almost instantly changes his thought process and goes after someone else. Honestly I think it would have been smart to try and put more votes on me. I wouldn't have answered, but if I was just scumlurking then it would have pressured me out into at least saying something.

He is then very curious about GM and his role and if he is roleblocked. I think it VERY likely that GM was in fact roleblocked. He was the obvious best choice for mafia to role block hands down. Kitaman27 then proceeds to ask "Would your bullet be refunded?" He is very curious about this townies power and what would happen if he was roleblocked. Just an interesting point for sure.

He then proceeds to say in his big list that he is "leaning town on bugs" and that his main lynch candidate is on Prplhz. I don't know why he stopped pressuring the lurker (myself) or why he instantly went onto Prplhz here. I was very happy with what I'd seen from prplhz at this point. Syllogism was as well, pointing out that "prplhz has appeared very protown". Bugs then proceeded to try and start suspicion against Prplhz by asking if he was just bad in general or only as scum. Something I also thought was out of place. This didn't go anywhere and then he Bugs proceeds to switch his case onto BC when no one else agrees with voting out Prplhz. Kitaman27 has never really caused ANYONE major pressure. He hasn't had a passion of scum hunting. He has in the end done very nearly nothing for us. He should have at least kept up his pressure on the lurker (Myself) and been more passionate against Prplhz if he truly felt he was scummy.

He then lists his ideal scumteam of -Foolishness, BC, Prplhz and L. 2 of which are confirmed town. Prplhz is just about confirmed town to me and then L. So he scum team is already been proven 2/4 wrong and almost 3/4 wrong. He also doesn't think I'm scum at all in these posts. Again going along with the theme of not really pressuring anyone, but merely putting some small spotlight onto these 4.

After Prplhz reveals that he had killed WhereBugsGo Kita says sorry for accusing Prplhz. He was very against apologizing early and one of the reads early that we had was that in most cases here scum would be apologetic and simply try not to die by lynch or agravating someone by trigger or simply vig shot. As town is somewhat killing itself by shooting itself (vig shots). So at this point this post could be dangerous as well.

Any, one or some of these posts taken separately wouldn't strike a chord. However all of them together ring in my ears. KitaMan27 is Scum

On December 29 2011 04:17 Liquid`Sheth wrote:


Yes I read the thread prplhz. I've read your argument against RoL. L and syllogism just went onto your bus and accepted him quietly. Chezinu hasn't posted yes, I see that.

Thanks for posting some more against RoL though, thats what I was looking for. I agree that RoL should definetly be fighting much harder to not be killed here. As this is pretty much our last thought. I agree, with your logic on this and I'm happy to be voting RoL here. I'll put me vote for him right here as well. Foolishness did have some very good calls, I'll give him that.

##Vote: RebirthOfLegend

On December 29 2011 03:19 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
If one of Syllogism / L are mafia then the other is town.

On December 29 2011 03:19 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
L You've had good logic. You voted for Palmar day one which I find weird. I have a null read on you as well. Other then thinking that either BOTH you and sylogism are town or 1 is town 1 is mafia I really don't have a great read. I think there is very likely no chance your both mafia.

On December 29 2011 06:40 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
As already said, I don't think L and Syllogism are both mafia together. Meaning one of RoL, yourself or Chezinu is mafia in place of them.

On December 31 2011 13:40 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
Syll you are also pretty much confirmed town.

On January 03 2012 00:40 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:

Wait, you both claimed the hit? Both of you claimed you targeted him AND used your hit? As in neither were refunded?

On January 03 2012 04:44 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
...........It sounds like something Chezinu would do. Which sucks for us. This means we should ignore facts for analysis because they don't help at all.

That being said, who do you guys think the last scum is? I am doing an analysis now and cleared one person, I believe the other is leaning town.

On December 23 2011 14:42 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
That would also explain why GM released all his reads. If you believe my analysis of this, then congrats. I am now confirmed town by GM's death, or at the very least, confirmed not mafia. If only he said specifically how his role worked, oh well.

On December 23 2011 14:39 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
He's apologizing in case he dies. I am guessing he has some sort of conscience where if he doesn't target a mafia then he dies. This post reads like a last will and testament because GM knew he was going to die. This could also explain why I didn't die or get notified of getting hit at all. His hit is only successful if its on a mafia, or he dies instead. This would also fit nicely with the theme of the game too.

On December 23 2011 15:16 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
More likely, the mafia was going to let GM kill himself/whoever else since it wasn't them, and as a result GM hit me and killed himself because I am town aligned.

On January 04 2012 05:31 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
In terms of real time questioning I'm around right now, I have something at 5pm PST until 9:30pm PST but if you're still awake after that we could talk then as well.

On January 04 2012 17:35 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Right off the bat he starts putting soft pressure on Sheth. Super easy target this is like Sheth’s second game, it’s not gonna be hard at all to get a ball rolling against him if you want to.

On January 04 2012 17:35 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
In his subsequent posts he continues to call out BC, and Foolishness and Sheth. This pattern continues for the rest of the day until we get to the lynch. At this point, Kita keeps his wording vague. Using phrases such as “I'm leaning scum on GM and uncertain/null on LSB” Kita keeps his reads very muddy and uncertain. If either GM or LSB are lynched and flip town then you certainly aren’t going to be able to associate it with him. This is important in two ways, one because mafia never want to be in the center of attention, and the other is to distance himself from WBG who is one of the pilots of the day one lynch. Kita first votes for GM saying “I know it may look like an OMGUS, but this really isn't the GM town play that I'm used to, so that is where my vote is going for the moment.” With this enourmous vote of confidence (sarcasm) kita finishes this post by once again asking people if they would like to lynch foolishness. With 20 minutes left in the day, kita completes his distancing of himself from a lynch that would have killed a townie either way and votes for foolishness.

In his post lynch thoughts, kita comes up with this gem “Chezinu or Foolishness obviously wasn't going to get lynched” -_- dot dot dot, guess who had his vote on foolishness at the end of the day. He then bashes RoL for putting a placeholder vote on chez but if he’s angry about worthless votes then there’s someone a lot closer to home who needs some attention

On January 04 2012 17:35 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Now we’re on to the next day, you’d think we’d be ready to hear more about foolishness however Kita punts on this one, “Looking back at his [foolishness’s] past games on day one, they all seem pretty similar, with minimal posting and a bit of trolling regardless of alignment. I'm still learning scum on him based on his general attitude and would probably be willing to lynch him today, but I'm having trouble coming up with a strong case against him from the current set of posts. As for his case against bugs, I'm leaning town on bugs at the moment. “ This is just terrible. Not only do we have continued shots at foolishness’s credibility, we also have kita calling WBG likely town after the LSB debacle. It’s actually not so much the lynch itself that kita is defending WBG against, it’s foolishness’s accusations which have a history of being chillingly accurate.

This is actually a pretty big deal right here. Foolishness was a huge threat to the scum team this game, he nailed half of it. Kita has spent the entire game trying to discredit him and here he
is directly defending a confirmed scum, and not only that, a scum that foolishness named.

On December 24 2011 23:36 kitaman27 wrote:


What exactly has he done so far that "looks exactly like his town play"? Could you be more specific?

As for BC, what makes him different than another lurker, say GGQ?

On January 04 2012 17:35 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
So syllo (who is scum) shoots down his idea of lynching prplhz. He then suggests that he’d like to lynch a lurker and BC would be his number one choice. What does kita say? If you all guessed “he says yeah I’ve been calling BC scummy all game long let’s do it” you’re wrong. Instead he says “lol wut about GGQ.” -_-. Here’s what I think happened. Kita isn’t agreeing with syllo just to be on the safe side and it doesn’t appear that they are buddying. Kita read syllo’s post and decided to just deflect the topic about BC so he doesn’t get associated with syllo. This is the only explanation I can think of. A townie who hears someone agree with them generally goes “yeah me too, let’s look into it” a townie doesn’t know the alignment of who they’re talking to, all they know is that someone else thinks they’re right so why not explore this option. But Kita doesn’t do this. He instead casually distances himself with syllo by not fully engaging him.

On January 04 2012 17:35 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Seriously? He just flat out says that BC made the vig shot. Nothing like “oh he’s lying about the vigi shot, he’s only mentioning it now because it seems like a safe claim.” No arguments like that. Instead he’s gonna lynch him because he made a bad vig shot. That’s just plain pants on head retarded if you’re town, kita admits in his post that BC made the shot sooooo doesn’t that make him a confirmed townie? No one cc’d him. It’s just poor reasoning. A better argument against BC would have been that he’s lying about the vigi shot because that would at least mean there’s a possibility of being BC being scum.

However from a scum perspective this slip actually makes sense. Kita knows that BC made the shot and he can truthfully say that it was a stupid shot. He’s forgotten along the way however is that a) BC could be lying about the shot and b) if he’s not then the shot is confirmed. So as a tl;dr there are two problems with his reasoning. One is that he’s attacking BC from a non townie angle. The second is that if he does accept that BC is telling the truth (which according to his post he did) then he’s blatantly voting for someone who is confirmed (at least according to his logic).

On January 04 2012 17:35 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:


Look at his scum team. He’s got his favorite targets of the entire game, but look who else made the list (drum roll fanfare) L! now other than a briefly directed question, Kita has never called out L at all. This is an extremely random scum suspect. What is the motivation for putting L here? I admit that I don’t know how kita thinks, but my bet would be that he felt like he should put one mafia on his list to make it more believable. It’s the same reason syllo made his secondary list. The thing is, none of the town know that L is mafia so putting him there really serves no purpose except it plays into the inherent guilt of scum. It doesn’t matter that we don’t know L is scum, kita knows and in a subconscious attempt to make his list more believable he’ll put in L. It also gives L (and to a lesser extent syllo) something to go back to and quote if Kita gets killed at some point.

On January 04 2012 17:35 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Next up is Kita’s current claim to town fame, his lynch on L. Here’s the thing, he’s not actually the first person to go after L on day 3. Bum is actually the first person to call out L with his very first post of the day. Kita isn’t even the second person to mention L as possible scum, prplhz, and RoL call L scum. Even Syllo beats around the bush saying that “In terms of balance L is probably scum but I don’t think we should kill him today” (paraphrase( and this is the main reason why I killed syllo for posterity sake)). The pressure on L doesn’t stop there, Bum continues to call him out going so far as to flat out say that L is scum. Keep in mind, this has all happened before kita does his analysis on L. Even Sheth manages to call L mafia and since Chez was absent, that’s every player in the game who is not L or Kita who has called L scum or at least hinted at it on day 3. Bum starts the voting on L, everyone in the game has called L scum at least once except for kita.

On January 03 2012 06:27 bumatlarge wrote:


I'm not certain on anyone right now. Kita has been constantly active this entire game, and reading his posts more, he has quite a few hiccups in his reads. He goes all over the place, calling Sheth, Foolishness, prphlz, BC, then actual scum in L. I think I need to read more into the L lynch to see if mafia were really "Fuck it, vote L", like syllo did as the 5th person on the wagon. Kita made his read on L very clear an hour after I voted L.



This is a few hours before anyone even mentions L as a lynch target, and it was after a whole response to Sheth's kita analysis. Kita as scum could have just put his vote on Sheth after calling him scummy, but he decides to push L instead. If the scum team was Kita/L/syllo, I don't understand why kita didn't take the easy way out with pushing sheth which I proabably would have gotten behind or jumping on RoL. It explains sheth being roleblocked, if they feared him shooting Kita, but that's all I can reason out. I believe kita did shoot syllo, though Kita didn't mention that he had a strong read on syllo before the shot. Kita has not been posting scared, and all his actions have a very townie perspective, even though he only started getting results late-game, and then he posted everything I was thinking. I'm gonna say Town.

Meapak/Chezinu has been a rough read, because a relevant part of the game was played by chezinu who I can't really decipher well, and I pride myself in being a good judge of random posters. Meapak's reads thus far in the game have been a claimed shot on syllo (there was no in-thread analysis, but there was only a night cycle for him to do this), and a sheth lynch, which all of us are guilty of. Other then that, I'm not mustering much townie points in his favor.

The abscence of his vote at a lylo scum lynch; a non-refunded shot dual claim on, in my opinion, a less prominent scum; and a random Roleblock claim that has zero reason behind it. Suspicious shifty shit shapes scummy standards.

I just need to review RoL again. I'm still hazy on the roleblock thing and what not. L went ballsdeep on RoL (sexy) the day he got lynched. I think we are basing RoL being confirmed based on his BC hit right? Hmmm. It does seem pretty straightforward if during the night you make me out to be superduper town and then shoot me because you aren't a roleblocker. If there was a scum medic, then that would explain both GM and Foolishness missing their hits. No, I am not content in throwing that in the trashcan.

Mostly I'm certain Kita is town. If he's not he deserves to win. Kita, I think it's gonna be down to you deciding who is scum between Cheazpak and RoL. I'd probably go with Cheeseypak, because RoL being scum does require him to be a scum-vig (or some awful townie vig) and having a scum medic.

On December 22 2011 05:53 kitaman27 wrote:
lol what you are you two even arguing about? How is the percentage of games that scum get lynched day one even relevant? Who cares what the percentages are on MS or how the last 20 games have gone? Even if it was really poor odds, you still try to find scum regardless.

L, your Metric post is nice and all, but who exactly did you catch? It's not a very good trap if you don't mention anyone that has fallen for it.

On December 23 2011 01:15 kitaman27 wrote:
There were also several other people who disappeared from the discussion, such as L and BC.

On December 23 2011 14:39 kitaman27 wrote:


If that was the case, why in the world would GM not inform us who he really shot after the 12:00 deadline? He had around 20 minutes to share who he really would have shot, during a time which the scum team wouldn't be able to change their actions. Are you purposely trying to shift focus away from RoL or something?

On December 23 2011 15:07 kitaman27 wrote:


That doesn't make sense at all. GM knows he is a suicide vig, so why would he leave it a mystery to who he really shot? He knows that it is highly likely that he will die if his shot is wrong. He wouldn't leave us in the dark knowing that he would likely never have a chance to reveal his true target. That wouldn't be a hyper pro-town move in the slightest.

On December 27 2011 13:35 kitaman27 wrote:
@L, have you been looking through posts for three days straight or do you just not care? Why does it matter who jackal was suspicious of? I want to know who you are suspicious of.

On December 28 2011 14:03 kitaman27 wrote:
L- Seems to be discussing a lot of things that aren't very relevant distracting town. Hasn't given us any solid analysis.

On December 29 2011 07:25 kitaman27 wrote:
I think L is scum, either chez or RoL is scum, and either you or syllo is the third.

On December 29 2011 09:22 kitaman27 wrote:


First off, when L is asked about fishing for blue roles, he responds that he did it because other players would have likely caught on. He then proceeded to list the six players better than him at role reading "for future reference". This list is completely irrelevant. He states that 25% of the game being scum means 1-2 of them on the list are probably scum. That is equivalent to selecting six random players and saying 1-2 are scum. He lists me and curu/sandro as being people with better blue reads than him, yet I've only ever played one game with him as a newbie and curu/sandro haven't even played any. He is likely just listing six of the most experienced players and immediately casting doubt on them from the start of the game.



Next L comes up with this extremely long post about some Metric he came up with for catching scum. He acts as if he set up a trap to catch scum. The one problem? He never mentions anyone that he actually caught. This reminds me exactly of my "trap" in LotR mafia, where I tried to explain that I was trapping scum with the knowledge that I was Radfield's mason partner, yet never actually brought up anyone that I caught.

He then proceeds to argue with Palmar about the win rate of town on day one. This is a common theme of L's play this game. He is more than willing to argue about things that have absolutely no impact on the game, yet when it comes to scum hunting, he really doesn't seem to care at all.

After that, L decides to give his reads on every single player in the thread. It looks as if he is making a contribution, but he never follows through with any of his reads.

The weirdest point comes when L insists that GM lied about his vig target. This makes absolutely no sense. GM posted his shot target when night actions would have been locked. Scum couldn't react to his target, so there is no reason not to post who he was targeting. He argues with me and chaoser that keeping the town in the dark was a good thing, but in reality L is only distracting the town with misdirection. He cares more about figuring out the night actions than finding who is scum. He tries to get himself out of it by asking other people to present a valid explanation of night actions, while knowing that only scum have the ability to know how everything turned out.

When pressed for delivering a scum suspect, he promises to contribute later, but never does. He says he was looking through jackals filter and explains who Jackal thought was scum, but never explains who he thinks is scum. He mentions me as a good vig target on night two, without ever bringing me up previously, with his only reasoning being that my posts are "careful".

Overall, L is more than willing to talk about things that don't matter, yet has no interest in finding scum.

##Vote L

On December 29 2011 11:18 kitaman27 wrote:


oh so now we're the scum team because we decided to vote for you? How about this one:



bum goes from huge content and very town to doing relatively little and playing very conciliatory? Do you have no comments on the case made against you rather than just calling us scum for bringing it up? You seem to try to pass it off as being the target of Foolishness's shot, but there has been much more than you never address.

On January 04 2012 01:51 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Then I look at Kitaman, he started the lynch on L, but that's not really the important part. Look at the mafias position going into that, it was a 5v3 situation and they needed one last mislynch, L was reaming into me hard trying to force my mislynch it doesn't REMOTELY look like he was setting himself up to get bussed, he was pushing for the end game right there. Instead Kita pushes his lynch and it gets flipped on L. I read him yesterday, but it would require an impeccable scum game from Kita for this read to be wrong and all the things he did be setting up the illusion of being town.

With those two reads I had the process of elimination and that leaves bumatlarge, I could only hope his filter didn't disagree with me, and it didn't. But I have work, so the rest of that comes later.

On December 21 2011 08:34 Foolishness wrote:
List of people who have made a post that's a giant wall of text:

wherebugsgo
bumatlarge
Ver
L

On December 21 2011 13:51 Foolishness wrote:
I will support BC in everything at this point because he used the word asshattery.

On December 22 2011 09:51 Foolishness wrote:
##Vote: LSB

I will be back before day ends to change if necessary. I'm still against but as always I'd rather lynch than no lynch.

+ Show Spoiler +

On December 22 2011 13:33 Foolishness wrote:
##Unvote: LSB
##Vote: GMarshal

aaawwwwwww yeah!

On January 06 2012 15:30 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
If you really want to talk about this more bum I suppose we can, but I don't feel like rehashing every point that's been made against kita, its redundant. You were all for killing him a page ago.

On January 07 2012 00:35 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
I was scum in this game, I kept it as something to post in case of emergency since its counter intuitive for mafia to need to keep a reads list, but keeping this list also allowed me to keep track of players I wanted to kill.

On January 06 2012 15:43 bumatlarge wrote:
He also accuses RoL in that same post, but I'm interested in the hits. Mafia would have to have some real manpower to pull off these hits AND BC. RoL was claiming the BC hit forever. I know for a fact the last mafia is a roleblocker. Was RoL's positioning really such that they would have their roleblocker claim the hit that another mafia made? It doesn't fit right with me.

On January 06 2012 15:43 bumatlarge wrote:
Though I'm still boggling over the GM > BC, then Fool > L. Both survived. The fuck. No one has come up with a better explanation then roleblocks.

On January 07 2012 02:01 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Kita, we now know as fact that Chezinu was never roleblocked, which means there was a roleblock and chances are it was mafia RBing Gmarshal to set him up for the next days lynch when he failed to follow through on his promise to kill someone. They didn't count on BloodyC0bbler killing Gmarshal instead. This explains where that roleblock went and why I didn't die and has been realized as a possibility since Meapak said Chezinu wasn't really roleblocked. Now we KNOW Chezinu is town and we can infer that the roleblock was actually on GM the same time BC hit him, hence why I am still alive and GM is dead.

On December 23 2011 15:16 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
GM Couldn't of been roleblocked because then he wouldn't of been dead. So if he faked his hit to mislead mafia then changed it last minute to try to kill me and he was roleblocked then he wouldn't of killed himself, which means the mafia would of had to RB + hit him, which means there would be 4 hits unaccounted for, which is bad and probably not possible since we know someone claimed killing palmar, that would leave 4 other hits in mafia hands.

More likely, the mafia was going to let GM kill himself/whoever else since it wasn't them, and as a result GM hit me and killed himself because I am town aligned. This would leave 3 hits unaccounted which could be an SK kill and 2 mafia, or just mafia kills. Much more reasonable.

Either way, we can be certain that GM was NOT roleblocked, otherwise it leaves an absurd amount of KP unaccounted for, so he must of killed himself. Any other explanation would be elaborate as shit and confusing therefore, we defer to Occam's and we have our answer.

Then I look at Kitaman, he started the lynch on L, but that's not really the important part. Look at the mafias position going into that, it was a 5v3 situation and they needed one last mislynch, L was reaming into me hard trying to force my mislynch it doesn't REMOTELY look like he was setting himself up to get bussed, he was pushing for the end game right there. Instead Kita pushes his lynch and it gets flipped on L. I read him yesterday, but it would require an impeccable scum game from Kita for this read to be wrong and all the things he did be setting up the illusion of being town.

On December 29 2011 07:07 syllogism wrote:

Very possible, but nothing in above is related to that. Why are you making these bad logical leaps in LYLO?

On December 29 2011 19:20 syllogism wrote:
Sheth: That's not "proof" at all, but I agree with L being the safest lynch today

##vote L

On January 07 2012 04:00 bumatlarge wrote:
-Claiming hit after it happens, and meapak the townie has claimed it.

On January 07 2012 04:00 bumatlarge wrote:
-Likes to take credit.

On January 07 2012 04:00 bumatlarge wrote:
-Has kita ever considered me as scum?

bum (good manner vig)
-responsibility points???
-soft defends chez, mason?
-unvotes hydra, seems unconfident
-claims trigger/blue
-supports GM's claim over LSB's, doesn't want to let both shoot
-Wishy-washy analysis of wiggles, no real conclusion
-only person around before lynch
-timing of role claim is weird

On January 06 2012 15:13 kitaman27 wrote:
If you're the scum, please just let me know so we can save everyone some time. I'd be willing to hammer myself if that were the case. Otherwise, let me write up my final case tomorrow.

On January 07 2012 04:00 bumatlarge wrote:
-The syllo thing looks pretty solid, but it would have been much better if it was included in your list, or if you had posted that reason immediately after you shot him. It looks like you just found out that link. Are you just saying that to show how messed up the scum teams position was during day 3?
Explain your reasoning for hitting syllo. I'd like a little more then the below post.

On January 07 2012 04:00 bumatlarge wrote:
-I seriously doubt he wasn't the reason for BC dying. The remaining scum is a roleblocker. Seems rather convoluted.

On January 07 2012 04:00 bumatlarge wrote:
-Day 3 seems extrordinarily bad on mafia's part if RoL is scum. They seriously couldn't bus properly at lylo? L and RoL would have thought this out better I feel.

On January 07 2012 04:00 bumatlarge wrote:
For both of you, explain why I am not scum. You both have thoroughly accepted this, and I am pretty neurotic about people assuming I'm town. One of you knows it, and the other has guessed it. RoL has looked into why I could be scum, and kita just seems like he can't argue I am scum, so he doesn't bother.

On January 08 2012 15:33 Ver wrote:
The biggest WTF part of the game was the roleblocker. Let's look at what the roleblocker did specifically.

N1:

roleblock Gmarshal (shooting RoL , being shot himself anyway by other vigis)

N2:

roleblock Foolishness (shooting L, shot by mafia)

N3: Roleblock Sheth (shooting Meapak , would have committed suicide too)

N5: Roleblock Bum (shooting RoL )

Basically mafia roleblocks always hit the mark except the no shot/no lynch cycle and over the course of the game saved 4 townies and 1 mafia from death! Some of the roleblocks made sense (foolishness), while others were bizarre (gmarshal).

On January 09 2012 06:06 Qatol wrote:
One mistake I think the mafia made is they were too afraid of triggering someone's shot. They went out of their way to make sure that under no circumstances could they be shot by the trigger vigis they knew about. This caused them to change the way they played the game and it stuck out. The problem with this style of play is that townies will naturally trigger the conditions in some circumstances. You shouldn't be afraid to trigger these abilities too as long as you're in a crowd of townies. It's only when you're the only one who triggers a shot that you should be worried.

On January 09 2012 06:06 Qatol wrote:
Also, I absolutely hated kita's claimed shot on syllogism. I thought he was going to win the game before that, but it stuck out as being really weird because he hadn't said anything about shooting syllogism before that. Plus Meapak had called a shot on Syllogism beforehand, which made it even weirder that kita would also shoot him (he could blame this on sleeping, but it's just one more thing that adds to the case).

On January 09 2012 17:21 L wrote:
Because our original plan was to have our RB stay up until the deadline, f5 the shit out of the page as the time came up, then stay on GM till he crumbed he was shooting a townie, then switch off onto someone else with a pre-written pm message to save time.

Then we didn't.

So I operated most of that day thinking that someone was lying through their ass about who hit who.