EPTSo the traitor guessing mafia and mafia guessing traitor are separate guesses correct? What I mean is, say the mafia guess who the traitor is and they get it wrong. The traitor can still guess the mafia team and they will be joined together yeah?
Responsibility Mafia!
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Foolishness
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So the traitor guessing mafia and mafia guessing traitor are separate guesses correct? What I mean is, say the mafia guess who the traitor is and they get it wrong. The traitor can still guess the mafia team and they will be joined together yeah? | ||
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wherebugsgo bumatlarge Ver L | ||
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On December 21 2011 09:07 wherebugsgo wrote: what do you think of LSB, Foolishness? Same question to everyone else, but particularly Palmar. Not a good day 1 lynch (at this point at least) | ||
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On December 21 2011 10:06 Mr. Wiggles wrote: I wanted to wait for LSB to respond, but I agree that the OP including something else does seem to imply the possibility of third parties or other, similar roles. We know the traitor is one of these, but there's the possibility of a role like SK or Survivor, as well. I've never seen Survivors in any games here, though, but SKs are (were?) fairly common. Also, Foolishness, do you have any other thoughts you'd like to share? From my experience playing with you, you avoid posting a lot as scum, and also try to avoid having to contribute. This makes you look like an apathetic or busy townie, but in my games with you, you turned out to be scum. So, I'd rather you remain more active than that, so I can get a better read on you. Gonna re-read LSB's posts and WBG's case on him. Ignore Chezinu, silence bugs, kill L | ||
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Filter LSB's posts. Filter LSB's posts from any game he's town. Notice the similarity? | ||
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Now I see you counter voting him based on day 1 lynch ratio's, and seemingly nothing else. | ||
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On December 22 2011 03:35 L wrote: So, from the get go I'd eliminate most of the players who have been voting for others, those who are aggressively asking questions of others as potential targets for the day 1 lynch. Additionally, I'd put more suspicion on players who are overly apologetic at this stage in the game. That said, i wouldn't link suspicion to post count or length directly because there's an impetus from everyone to minimize their exposure to triggers. That said, voting is less of a town-tell than aggravating people; voting is important insofar as it establishes a rivalry. ... I'm somewhat more conflicted with respect to Palmar because he fit this profile to a T prior to me going to sleep last night, then he started contributing. I'm not sure if that's because people started singling him out as a bullshit one-line poster and actually voting for him on that basis, but if the above is correct he'd probably not have been willing to engage VE for that long as mafia, and consequently VE is probably town because he pushed through an overt warning of Palmar's regarding him becoming annoying and kept on him to the point of voting for him. VE is essentially the green/bluest person in the town in my eyes at the moment because of this. He already thought you were suspicious since the start, you can read the rest of his post for the full story, I just took out the relevant parts. | ||
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On December 22 2011 05:00 Palmar wrote: Are you trolling me Foolishness? In your text L even concludes I'm probably not mafia. Again, what has his read on VE to do with anything? What the fuck? Just forget it, we're wasting each others' time. | ||
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On December 22 2011 05:03 Palmar wrote: No, now you explain why you don't want to vote for L based on this. no On December 22 2011 05:04 Jackal58 wrote: What do you think of Palmar Foolishness? You seem to be quite willing to comment on others reasoning to this point while providing none of your own. If you had to vote this very moment who would you vote for and why? Actually you've said damn little this game so far. With regards to Palmar, this is the most important post he's made thus far: On December 21 2011 18:53 Palmar wrote: Are you around for a bit syllo? I really need someone to talk to. Yes I do agree that GM would be a pretty good lynch today. I tried to get him to explain why all he had to offer was policy lynches but he hasn't posted since. I don't think we should be lynching prplhz though, he's marginally more useful than most people in this thread. Did you notice that BloodyC0bbler came into the thread and the one thing he focused on was the RNG idea, something that had been out of the discussion for a long while by then. I still believe it's a good idea if a town would roll with it from the start, but at the point his post is completely irrelevant to the discussion, to the point that this post is basically a huge pile of nothing. We know absolutely nothing about BC from that one post. In addition I've had a problem with L's posting since the very beginning, I don't know if this was how you posted back when he was playing but in today's environment that's almost enough to just lynch him by default. And finally, what do you think about WBG's case on LSB? Do you agree with me that it felt a bit forced, especially the part where he basically flat out accused LSB of being a SK? There's no way any mafia would make a post like that. | ||
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On December 22 2011 05:30 Jackal58 wrote: So are you defending L or Palmar? You say Palmar can't be mafia yet you can justify L's vote on him. I'm confused. I've never played with L before that I can recall but I did play as L in personality mafia. He apparently has issues with Bill Murray. Yes, I think L justified his vote. He explained himself in his above post. As I implied I do not think Palmar is mafia nor will I be voting for him anytime in the near future. L even agrees with me that Palmar's post that I pointed out is not something a mafia would make. | ||
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I will be back before day ends to change if necessary. I'm still against but as always I'd rather lynch than no lynch. + Show Spoiler + Estimated number of people who will quote this post and call me mafia cause of it: 4 Estimated people: Palmar, Jackal, Curu/sandroba, kitaman | ||
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##Vote: GMarshal aaawwwwwww yeah! | ||
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On December 22 2011 13:36 prplhz wrote: I'm going to venture asking Foolishness a question. Is LSB town? I don't know. What I do know is that LSB is being responsible, and GMarshal is not. | ||
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On December 22 2011 13:41 prplhz wrote:
I numbered my question so it would be very easy for you to answer! How kind of you! 1) I don't know and don't care. This is a game of logic, not emotion. I am not swayed by emotional arguments so his "I've been busy" means nothing to me. It doesn't mean I think he's mafia, I just don't take it into account and ignore it. 2) You are correct. Order of events and time stamps are very important. GMarshal's breadcrumb should not be factored into anything because he's done it plenty of times before and it's not unreasonable to think he would do it as either alignment. Now consider you are a suicidal vigi (basically what GM claims to be). You see LSB claim the exact role except with a different title. Are you going to blatantly counter claim without giving it a second thought? No of course not. Ver could have made two different names for the same role (someone already mentioned this). You would at least think about it before counter claiming. But most importantly, LSB was still going to get lynched. Nobody had said anything about being convinced by his claim. It is reasonable to assume that we would have still lynched LSB for lack of better target. If GM thought he might be replacement lynch, he would at least wait until people started voting for him. This is what I mean when I say he isn't being responsible. I've gotten confirmation from Ver though. The mafia are given a list of roles AND role descriptions. This changes things a little. | ||
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On December 22 2011 14:19 bumatlarge wrote: Well gee. LSB was telling the truth, so there is definitely some tricky host business with where GM got the iea to make that counter-claim. I don't think that alone shows his colors one way or another. It's okay, he'll be shooting you tonight so we'll end up ahead anyways. | ||
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On December 22 2011 15:01 wherebugsgo wrote: well GM will shoot if he's town. Scum will die, or GM will die. It's that simple. we should choose who GM should shoot. Sandro what do you think? Who should be shot? No. Assume GM is town. Most likely he'll choose to shoot tonight. If we pick for him (even give him an approved list) and give him a town to shoot, mafia will just let him shoot the town and kill himself. If we give him a mafia to shoot, mafia will just roleblock/kill him. If we let GM decide for himself, then mafia are left debating on how to handle the situation. | ||
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On December 23 2011 07:56 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm lonely guys, come play with me! Allowed to fester, I'll just keep coming up with crazy paranoid shit. I need guidance. Don't worry broski, I got your back | ||
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On December 23 2011 13:28 bumatlarge wrote: I'm scratching the plan chezinu, my research is inadequate. Best of luck if I get shot. I have to go to bed an I have my 5th tenhour workday. And I think it's effecting my game. Hell, I'm on the same page with chezinu, so I must be pretty messed up. I think palmar is more likely town then L is. It's kinda annoying that I can't just rely on my role flipping to explain things, but I think it's better to hold off claiming, even if I was more certain I would get shot. Foolishness scares me more then BC. If I had to guess, GM is town and mod's are cool. But I'm as sure of that as I was of LSB being scum. Activity levels are unsurprising, but it wouldn't hurt to have one of the many less talkative people start yapping. o.O Trying to figure out the motivation for that post and I'm struggling | ||
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My suspicions first started near the end of yesterday. I was reading through Steamship mafia (bugs was townie there) and I noticed that bugs posts and obscene amount of one-liners, something that is mysteriusly absent from this game. Upon reading Mini Mafia X (bugs was mafia this time), I observed the same thing as this game: the number of one liners he posted was not up to par with his normal town play. Of course this is not enough to warrant an accusation in itself. Upon further analysis it is immediately apparent that bugs is completely out of character this game. The biggest thing is the lack of definite aggression that is typical of wherebugs go. Let's observe: From this game, here is a post against me on day 1: On December 22 2011 06:28 wherebugsgo wrote: @Foolishness, I realize your town meta is "be useless day 1 into rape scumteam day 2" but if we are not afforded the luxury of having you around day 2 I would love to hear your thoughts and opinions on who is scum as soon as you can give them to us. You are a valuable asset to town, and the day 1 lynch is as important as any other. This isn't a town full of new players, so lurking day 1 isn't going to afford you any protection. Can you explain why you are choosing to lurk and post relatively little anyway? What is the disadvantage of you posting a lot? + Show Spoiler + I can see one, and that's you being scum and not wanting to post. Now take a look at this attack on day 1 against Chaoser in Steamship. Bugs was green in this game. On November 16 2011 09:46 wherebugsgo wrote: Then, your attacks on Zephirrd are really bad too. He's a new player, and most of what he's saying makes sense. That's better than a lot of other new players. You even admit to making cases "out of nothing" as an attempt to create reactions from other players. That's not a good way to play town and you know it. You should be posting a case on someone after you have subtly pushed them for a while, instead of voting them the instant you think they've said something scummy. That's not reliable. The difference in tone should be immediately obvious here. When bugs is town, his attacks are solid and concrete, just like the one against chaoser. To paraphrase, he says to chaoser, "yo, you're fucking up, fix your shit or else". This is the bugs we all know (and maybe love). He does not take shit from anyone and isn't afraid to call people out on their shit. Yet this game we see a remarkable difference. It is not news to anyone that bugs wants to kill me, he's been after me for almost the entire game. That's fine on it's own. What's important is how he has been after me, as that does not fit his usual style of play. Take another post he's made regarding myself: On December 22 2011 07:51 wherebugsgo wrote: The weird thing about Foolishness, for me, is that he should know that lurking today should offer him no protection. In a game full of people who KNOW he's good, why would he lurk day 1 as town? How does that further the goal of surviving to crush the scum day 2 onwards? I fully understand why he does it in other games. However, I've asked for his opinions several times and he doesn't give much. He says LSB's meta fits his town meta, but then Jackal says the opposite. I really don't like how Foolish is playing right now. Again we see the same thing as above (and the rest of his posts against me aren't any better either!) Note how he's calmly drawing suspicion towards me without actually saying anything concrete (and he never votes for me either). This is a common mafia ploy: he wants to plant the idea in your mind that I'm suspicious and then wait for someone else to jump the gun and straight out accuse me. That way he is not accountable for me and he can claim that he was suspicious of me the whole time, all the while blending in perfectly as an honorable townsperson. The above post is a perfect segway into my next item of interest in that bugs has been quite the question talker this game. Take a few examples: On December 22 2011 05:55 wherebugsgo wrote: overslept o_O current votecount says this: So clearly a lot of people have not voted yet. Palmar, what makes you confident L is scum? Foolishness, if you want to kill L, why is your vote not on him? Or has your opinion changed since I was last here? Jackal, can you explain what makes you suspicious of LSB? All the people who haven't voted yet: why are you not contributing to discussion? On December 22 2011 06:59 wherebugsgo wrote: What part about me calling LSB timid isn't saying he lacks confidence? Did you even read my case? Did you read the posts other players have made about LSB? I don't like the vibe you're giving off. On December 22 2011 07:37 wherebugsgo wrote: sandro was it you or curu who initially agreed with the LSB case I made? Can you explain your current thoughts on the game? What do you think of Palmar/L? RoL? Foolishness? Now I got no problem with someone asking questions, but I bring this up because it's very noticeable. wherebugsgo has been on the forefront of trying to get information out of other people (which is definitely a good thing), but it appears that is all he is trying to do. I'm not saying he's completely useless or hasn't provided his own analysis (he has justified the majority of his actions this game), but there's the obvious sense that he's trying hard to use other peoples' thoughts as his own. More importantly, looking through a few of his past games you'll find that the amount of questions he is asking is really out of character for him. And this makes incredible sense too. When you think about bugs's playstyle, what do you think of? Actively calling people bullshitters and mass typing "loooool" as he proceeds to call you a retard. He is not the type of player who figures things out by asking questions and judging reactions. ---- But also, where is the retard calling bugs that we are used to seeing? Certainly not in this game that's for sure. The posts I've already quoted should serve as enough evidence that we are playing with a different bugs than we are all used to. Of course he's made a few posts that are typical of him, but on the whole something is definitely off. A few specific things he says stick out in my mind: On December 21 2011 10:44 wherebugsgo wrote: Foolishness you're mean! He sounds like a child! On December 22 2011 06:28 wherebugsgo wrote: We need more information up in here. A lot of people haven't voted and the thread is relatively inactive. Most of those who have voted have not provided many reasons for their votes, but not all of them can be scum. So, let's get some information flowing! "So, let's get some information flowing!" Does this sound like something bugs would normally say? I would expect a "we need to fucking kill these inactives before they lose us the game". These sentences are extremely out of character for him. ---------- Another interesting tidbit is that bugs is one of the most vote-happy people in the game. Take any game where he's town (Steamship is my favorite example) you'll see his vote switch between 3-4 people on any given day, usually on gut whims. In the past two games I found of him as mafia he's much more cautious with his vote and does not toss it around (although these were both mini games so there weren't as many players). For example, in Steamship he changes his vote to lemonwalrus because he (lemonwalrus) made two sketchy posts. + Show Spoiler + On November 17 2011 10:09 wherebugsgo wrote: ##unvote chaoser ##vote Lemonwalrus Reason: Sorry, but I can't let away with you calling out another player for an unreasoned vote and then pulling an unreasoned vote yourself. I shouldn't need to remind you that we haven't seen any of this in the current game yet. As I'm writing this, he's said we should lynch me and yet he hasn't even voted for me. ---------------------------------------------------- This is a small thing in comparison to my arguments above, but when GM made his post about shooting RoL, I immediately posted the following: On December 23 2011 14:06 Foolishness wrote: noooo not RoL! You could have shot bugs! Which is the first thing I have ever said regarding wherebugsgo. Roughly 45 min later, bugs makes this post: On December 23 2011 14:58 wherebugsgo wrote: ... however, we lost a LOT of townies last night. We need to hit scum today. I say we kill Foolishness. This almost seems like the textbook case where you vote for a mafia and they immediately counter-vote you. I'm curious though. Before I made that post I had said absolutely nothing regarding bugs, then I make my one liner post after GM's long post. I expected him (or anyone for that matter) to take this as another one of my troll posts that I am apparently famous for. Instead he takes it as a legitimate threat and says that we need to kill me. Note that this is the first time he has directly said that I need to die. I've quoted the majority of posts he's made about me already, but yes, this is the first time. As I said above all of his posts have been casting doubt and suspicion upon me, and never has he concretely said that I need to die. All of this, coming from the person who will switch votes to someone because they made a stupid post. Something's wrong. Let's swat this bug away! ##Vote: wherebugsgo | ||
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On December 24 2011 07:33 L wrote: RE: You RoL, there's a difference between mildly not understanding logic and implying that I'm saying the opposite of what I'm saying. I said there CANNOT be a bus, specifically on the mafia team, because given the roles that have been claimed thus far it would be off the charts ridiculously powerful. Seriously, what the shit. Stop debating nonsense. It's clear that nothing you or RoL have said today is going to lead anywhere except distraction land. On December 24 2011 07:44 wherebugsgo wrote: Foolishness I have a question for you: If you truly believed LSB was town day 1 why did you not speak up? Why did you put in near 0 effort to show to us that he was town? Why did you defend him on meta grounds but not offer examples of the games he's played? Foolishness, why are you so damn lazy? Because I did not truly believe he was town. I thought that GM was a much better lynch given the events that had transpired (I talked about this in a post I made at the end of the day). And I wouldn't go so far to say I put in near zero effort, I certainly moved my vote to GMarshal and explained my reasoning. Though at this point it was already very late in the day and there was much more interesting things to observe (such as who was bandwagoning LSB and what not). And I defended him on meta grounds relatively early in the day, not anywhere near the claim (correct me if I'm wrong though). And I certainly didn't do anything concrete; I just filtered his posts in this game and one of his mafia games and didn't see anything glaringly similar. Then I checked one of his townie games and this game looked more similar to that. There wasn't any rigorous deduction there. And also, I'm willing to hold everyone else accountable for being lazy at this point. Let us both recap what has happened day 2. Wiggles makes a very very safe accusation against Sheth. Sheth has hardly done anything in response. L is writing text walls. RoL and a few others are debating what happened to GM which is clearly not leading anywhere. chaoser is clearly bored out of his mind. Day is like 20 hours over and there have been 2 votes, my vote for you and a very odd case against Chezinu. Clearly the mafia are shaking in their boots /sarcasm. | ||
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2) - 3) I already stated that I would rather lynch than no lynch. You wouldn't? Cool. I don't care, that's your opinion and that's something we could spend days arguing about. That's not what this is about. If you don't want to nitpick about what I thought LSB was, then don't nitpick about my actions on whether or not I tried to save him. I moved my vote off of him and gave reasoning why GM was the better lynch. That's 100% more than the majority of people in this game (including yourself I might add). The last thing we need right now is a bandwagon vote onto the inactive Sheth. | ||
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On December 25 2011 08:33 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: We have 5 dead, two hits we can reasonably explain. Chaoser claimed killing Palmar who could be a traitor/third party according to the rules and Gmarshal killing himself by hitting me. So that leaves 3, VE, Jackal58, and SamuelLJackson (Curu/Sandroba). You claimed that you did not take a hit last night. LSB confirmed that if he shoots a green both the green and him die. Thus you should be dead, as GM dying is accounted for now. But I am also curious why you would say what I highlighted in your post if you were town. Seems like you wrote that because you have extra information on some sort of night events happening. | ||
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Why RoL is still alive is the biggest problem at the moment. If GM breadcrumbed his real target (which most people seem to think he didn't) I haven't been able to figure out the real target. Pretend that you are RoL and you are mafia. You got shot last night but you survived due to whatever reason (medic, veteran, etc). What would you say in the thread? You are highly suspicious cause you were inactive day 1, so claiming that you took a hit isn't going to do anything for you since it will just make the town lynch you anyways. But if you claim that nothing happened to you during the night, suddenly you might be saved since everyone is now distracted with what really happened during the night. And perhaps GM's suspicions of you were just a farce to hide his real shot. We should still kill bugs at some point though. | ||
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The only explanation so far I've seen for why RoL is still alive is that GM lied about his hit (not likely) or that GM was roleblocked. Obviously GM being roleblocked makes a ton of sense, except Chezinu claimed to be roleblocked. I don't see the reason for Chezinu to lie about being roleblocked, so it does not make sense that Chezinu is mafia. I didn't think RoL was mafia cause he was active day 2 (after he promised he would be), but nothing adds up still. That said, I'm relatively certain that bumatlarge and GGQ are both innocent based on analysis. I do not think kitaman is mafia either. | ||
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On December 28 2011 14:03 bumatlarge wrote: High five for Team Clever foolishness. ##Fistpound: bumatlarge | ||
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