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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On December 24 2011 07:33 L wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 01:20 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On December 23 2011 16:32 L wrote:On December 23 2011 15:42 chaoser wrote:
Ok, you bring up a good point. I'll have to retread the whole claiming part of day 1 tomorrow but I still don't understand why gm would feel the need to lie at midnight, when all the actions have been set in stone and a lie would just confuse the town instead of being clean and simple. I feel like a more valid reason for the kills would be that a bus driver bussed his kill but that's also just speculation. RE: Bus driver Bus driver's possible, but the end result with respect to who mafia killed doesn't change, so it becomes entirely irrelevant whether or not he lied, only whether or not he shot Visc. If anyone bussed Visc/RoL they're either delusional or mafia, which means mafia has a bus driver. Which means this game is fucking broken. We can't call shots to confirm anyone. Roles like GM and LSB's can be rerouted with mafia knowledge of who's innocent to change a shot against mafia to a double townie kill. The only way of obtaining proper information about a shooter would be to have at least 3 people shoot during a night. But that's kinda beyond the fact. A driver is an assured +3 for mafia with a single night action. I hope you recognize that even hatters typically don't have that much firepower (3 bomb hatters are a +2 swing and take the entire game to set up). The only night action I've seen do more than a 3 kill swing for a team was the Murrayitis plague, but there were at least five plague related roles acting across 3-4(5?) days in the game that had to engineer the beautiful destruction that we set up for that one. RE: RoL I'm not claiming EITHER lied about their role. If LSB's role wasn't the same as GM's GM wouldn't have had a need to continue pushing him and would have said "oh shit, we DONT have the same role". But that's not the case. Nothing in ANY of LSBs or GMs post indicate that their vig shots do not work vs townies, with LSB basing his plea on the very fact that it does. GM replied to this very point without commenting on it. RE: GGQ So, you have VE shooting GM, who would die or confirm himself as green during the night. No. You also have 3 mafia KP per day which leads to LyLo on day 2 with a single missed justice vig. Double No. I don't like what you are doing. Its blatant fear mongering with insane theorizing behind this games set up. We can assume the mafia probably has a RB, and probably a GF, at most I'd give them one more power role which would probably be a medic which would encourage the idea of responsibility by allowing the mafia to punish the town trying to coordinate publicly. A bus driver makes the game crazy on so many levels while serving the same effect that a medic would by allowing them to disrupt hits, but would do it in a much more destructive manner. You go even farther to say that there must be a bus driver and this game is fucked. Stop talking about crazy shit and be productive, I will just kill you if I see you fear mongering and not being productive one more time, its scummy as shit L and its not going to fly. RE: You RoL, there's a difference between mildly not understanding logic and implying that I'm saying the opposite of what I'm saying. I said there CANNOT be a bus, specifically on the mafia team, because given the roles that have been claimed thus far it would be off the charts ridiculously powerful. Seriously, what the shit.
Stop debating nonsense. It's clear that nothing you or RoL have said today is going to lead anywhere except distraction land.
On December 24 2011 07:44 wherebugsgo wrote:
Foolishness I have a question for you:
If you truly believed LSB was town day 1 why did you not speak up? Why did you put in near 0 effort to show to us that he was town? Why did you defend him on meta grounds but not offer examples of the games he's played?
Foolishness, why are you so damn lazy?
Because I did not truly believe he was town. I thought that GM was a much better lynch given the events that had transpired (I talked about this in a post I made at the end of the day). And I wouldn't go so far to say I put in near zero effort, I certainly moved my vote to GMarshal and explained my reasoning. Though at this point it was already very late in the day and there was much more interesting things to observe (such as who was bandwagoning LSB and what not).
And I defended him on meta grounds relatively early in the day, not anywhere near the claim (correct me if I'm wrong though). And I certainly didn't do anything concrete; I just filtered his posts in this game and one of his mafia games and didn't see anything glaringly similar. Then I checked one of his townie games and this game looked more similar to that. There wasn't any rigorous deduction there.
And also, I'm willing to hold everyone else accountable for being lazy at this point. Let us both recap what has happened day 2. Wiggles makes a very very safe accusation against Sheth. Sheth has hardly done anything in response. L is writing text walls. RoL and a few others are debating what happened to GM which is clearly not leading anywhere. chaoser is clearly bored out of his mind.
Day is like 20 hours over and there have been 2 votes, my vote for you and a very odd case against Chezinu. Clearly the mafia are shaking in their boots /sarcasm.
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On December 24 2011 08:04 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 07:33 L wrote:On December 24 2011 01:20 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On December 23 2011 16:32 L wrote:On December 23 2011 15:42 chaoser wrote:
Ok, you bring up a good point. I'll have to retread the whole claiming part of day 1 tomorrow but I still don't understand why gm would feel the need to lie at midnight, when all the actions have been set in stone and a lie would just confuse the town instead of being clean and simple. I feel like a more valid reason for the kills would be that a bus driver bussed his kill but that's also just speculation. RE: Bus driver Bus driver's possible, but the end result with respect to who mafia killed doesn't change, so it becomes entirely irrelevant whether or not he lied, only whether or not he shot Visc. If anyone bussed Visc/RoL they're either delusional or mafia, which means mafia has a bus driver. Which means this game is fucking broken. We can't call shots to confirm anyone. Roles like GM and LSB's can be rerouted with mafia knowledge of who's innocent to change a shot against mafia to a double townie kill. The only way of obtaining proper information about a shooter would be to have at least 3 people shoot during a night. But that's kinda beyond the fact. A driver is an assured +3 for mafia with a single night action. I hope you recognize that even hatters typically don't have that much firepower (3 bomb hatters are a +2 swing and take the entire game to set up). The only night action I've seen do more than a 3 kill swing for a team was the Murrayitis plague, but there were at least five plague related roles acting across 3-4(5?) days in the game that had to engineer the beautiful destruction that we set up for that one. RE: RoL I'm not claiming EITHER lied about their role. If LSB's role wasn't the same as GM's GM wouldn't have had a need to continue pushing him and would have said "oh shit, we DONT have the same role". But that's not the case. Nothing in ANY of LSBs or GMs post indicate that their vig shots do not work vs townies, with LSB basing his plea on the very fact that it does. GM replied to this very point without commenting on it. RE: GGQ So, you have VE shooting GM, who would die or confirm himself as green during the night. No. You also have 3 mafia KP per day which leads to LyLo on day 2 with a single missed justice vig. Double No. I don't like what you are doing. Its blatant fear mongering with insane theorizing behind this games set up. We can assume the mafia probably has a RB, and probably a GF, at most I'd give them one more power role which would probably be a medic which would encourage the idea of responsibility by allowing the mafia to punish the town trying to coordinate publicly. A bus driver makes the game crazy on so many levels while serving the same effect that a medic would by allowing them to disrupt hits, but would do it in a much more destructive manner. You go even farther to say that there must be a bus driver and this game is fucked. Stop talking about crazy shit and be productive, I will just kill you if I see you fear mongering and not being productive one more time, its scummy as shit L and its not going to fly. RE: You RoL, there's a difference between mildly not understanding logic and implying that I'm saying the opposite of what I'm saying. I said there CANNOT be a bus, specifically on the mafia team, because given the roles that have been claimed thus far it would be off the charts ridiculously powerful. Seriously, what the shit. Stop debating nonsense. It's clear that nothing you or RoL have said today is going to lead anywhere except distraction land. Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 07:44 wherebugsgo wrote:
Foolishness I have a question for you:
If you truly believed LSB was town day 1 why did you not speak up? Why did you put in near 0 effort to show to us that he was town? Why did you defend him on meta grounds but not offer examples of the games he's played?
Foolishness, why are you so damn lazy? Because I did not truly believe he was town. I thought that GM was a much better lynch given the events that had transpired (I talked about this in a post I made at the end of the day). And I wouldn't go so far to say I put in near zero effort, I certainly moved my vote to GMarshal and explained my reasoning. Though at this point it was already very late in the day and there was much more interesting things to observe (such as who was bandwagoning LSB and what not). And I defended him on meta grounds relatively early in the day, not anywhere near the claim (correct me if I'm wrong though). And I certainly didn't do anything concrete; I just filtered his posts in this game and one of his mafia games and didn't see anything glaringly similar. Then I checked one of his townie games and this game looked more similar to that. There wasn't any rigorous deduction there. And also, I'm willing to hold everyone else accountable for being lazy at this point. Let us both recap what has happened day 2. Wiggles makes a very very safe accusation against Sheth. Sheth has hardly done anything in response. L is writing text walls. RoL and a few others are debating what happened to GM which is clearly not leading anywhere. chaoser is clearly bored out of his mind. Day is like 20 hours over and there have been 2 votes, my vote for you and a very odd case against Chezinu. Clearly the mafia are shaking in their boots /sarcasm.
Right, so here's the problems I have:
#1. You say that you found that there were very interesting things to observe late in the day yesterday, specifically regarding who was willing to bandwagon LSB. Yet, your concern is not with the bandwagoners but with me, who started the case. Your words here don't line up with your actions.
#2. You didn't 'truly' believe he was town. Why nitpick here? I am not asking for semantics. I am asking whether or not you believed LSB to be town yesterday. Everything you said and did suggested that you believed LSB was town, yet you did next to nothing to stop the lynch. You were apathetic as fuck when it came to LSB. These posts:
On December 21 2011 09:45 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2011 09:07 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 21 2011 08:34 Foolishness wrote:
List of people who have made a post that's a giant wall of text:
wherebugsgo
bumatlarge
Ver
L what do you think of LSB, Foolishness? Same question to everyone else, but particularly Palmar. Not a good day 1 lynch (at this point at least)
On December 21 2011 13:51 Foolishness wrote:
I will support BC in everything at this point because he used the word asshattery.
Filter LSB's posts. Filter LSB's posts from any game he's town. Notice the similarity?
On December 22 2011 09:51 Foolishness wrote:##Vote: LSBI will be back before day ends to change if necessary. I'm still against but as always I'd rather lynch than no lynch. + Show Spoiler +Estimated number of people who will quote this post and call me mafia cause of it: 4
Estimated people: Palmar, Jackal, Curu/sandroba, kitaman
were the only posts you made about LSB yesterday prior to the claim, all suggesting you already knew what LSB would flip, but were not willing or concerned enough to stop us from going the extra length to kill him.
#3. My whole point was that you didn't do anything concrete! This is lazy and bad play. You, lazy and bad? Yeah, that really sounds like what you'd do as town. Why would you just let a good townie like LSB get lynched if you thought he was unlikely to flip scum?
What about that bullshit excuse that you'd rather have a lynch than a no lynch? I would rather no-lynch if it ensured a townie survived. You even thought that GM was more likely to be scum than LSB, but clearly you were wrong about him too. Instead, you voted off LSB very late in the day onto GM. Now it looks like you were simply trying to absolve yourself of responsibility for voting LSB and watching idly as he died.
#4. With that in mind, this:
On December 24 2011 08:04 Foolishness wrote:
And also, I'm willing to hold everyone else accountable for being lazy at this point. Let us both recap what has happened day 2. Wiggles makes a very very safe accusation against Sheth. Sheth has hardly done anything in response. L is writing text walls. RoL and a few others are debating what happened to GM which is clearly not leading anywhere. chaoser is clearly bored out of his mind.
Day is like 20 hours over and there have been 2 votes, my vote for you and a very odd case against Chezinu. Clearly the mafia are shaking in their boots /sarcasm.
is incredibly damning.
You're not willing to take on the responsibility of your actions yesterday, but are more than willing to blame everyone else for what happened. Yeah, that's a great way to play. Who cares about what you did, right? Cause obviously your play was so much better than all of ours. Maybe we should've listened to you and lynched GM instead!
Oh but wait, the end result would've been the same. And you knew that. That's why you took your vote off LSB and put it on GM. However, I don't think you anticipated GM would die. You talked about the RB as if you knew GM would get RBed, as if you knew what would happen. You knew GM would live and you knew you could lock the lynch down today on GM. Miscalculation on your part, and now you've been outed as scum.
##vote Foolishness
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I find prplhz to be null-scummy. In a lot of his posts he flips flops or tries to be as noncommital as possible, asking people about their opinions or just plain questions.
I think VisceraEyes needs to get off Palmar's back. Right now the town is in a state where I don't think we're likely to catch scum. A lot of people are lurking instead of trying to establish themselves as scum. I think VisceraEyes has a valid point that a lot of the veterans here play like Radfield plays, he likes to sit back and watch the show and then get his reads from unsuspecting scum who think they're doing all fine. We can't all do that though, for obvious reasons.
That being said there's a ton of people on LSB right now so I think he's likely the best lynch. I'll be around until deadline reading up on the thread and then it's back to bed.
but I'll have more time when I get home, maybe someone can point out a couple of people I could look into? Preferably lurkers like GGQ.
I'd say we keep a watch on him for now. He continues to ask a ton of questions about other people's opinions and so at this moment he's leaning towards null. This is because a mafia tries to hide the fact that they're trying to be noncommital while I sense prphlz is being very open about his questioning. I disagree with his poorly thought out case against chenizu. Hopefully time will tell.
syllogism, however, is my main target for the day.
He's posted almost nothing of value:
What does this even mean? The theme is to punish bad play, not to punish weird play and how do we "think outside the box to counter his methods"? Not making sense is bad play, will you take responsibility?
Is this Curu? Tag your posts. I've a hard time believing that you actually think chezinu couldn't do that regardless of his alignment. Oh no Chezinu may destroy his credibility!!
He responds to a post bum made with:
There is no need to play any differently than you normally do and in fact you shouldn't as that will only make it more difficult to potentially establish your innocence.
when he himself stated early on in the thread:
I'll be trying a new style so if there's something off with my play, that's probably it
He himself also never actually makes any cases and continues to complain about how "people accepted the invite despite being too busy to actually play the game as they can't all be mafia. Just look at the length of the replacement queue; I would wager the vast majority of them would be willing to put more effort into the game than the people currently playing."
whene, if you look through his posts, he's barely put in much effort (merely commenting on other people's posts without adding much himself)
He also switches his vote from GM to LSB while posting:
I'm still partial to GM if that's all he has got. It seems strange that he decided to spend his time writing more setup analysis when we've 6(?) hours until lynch. Lurking by bc/rol/ggq et al seems more of a null tell based on Ver's post, so I'm now less inclined to lynch someone who is clearly completely away.
into:
On December 22 2011 07:56 syllogism wrote:
Anyway, I'm starting to consider LSB the better lynch out of GM/LSB, despite finding WBG's initial case quite stupid. GM's post is a bit strange, but I think him not reading carefully is more of a null or even slightly leaning town read. In a situation where he is already being pressured I think he would be more careful as scum. I do however agree with your points on LSB and even GM's point about him lacking confidence.
##vote LSB
but then bitches at bum about not explaining why he found LSB scummy when he himself barely did it either.
##vote: syllogism
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I am also open to a Sheth lynch
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also, I should note, that because of this, I now very strongly believe either Chezinu is lying about that RB, or that there exist at least two roleblocking roles in the game. From what Foolishness has said, I am certain scum roleblocked GM.
Chezinu might have been roleblocked by a town roleblocker yesterday, if this is true. He could also be scum. As of now I don't believe Chezinu is scum.
To the players who believe Chezinu is scum: (i.e. prplhz) please provide a detailed case as to why you believe he is scum and not town. I will do my own rereading of Chezinu's posts, to see if I have missed anything. I don't think I have, though, seeing as I've read the thread at least 3 times now (not hard, seeing as no one is doing anything)
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
1) Yes, I already explained why I was interested in your in my earlier accusation of you. You claim to have been watching me this entire game (although you haven't done anything until now) yet you've spent your time against LSB too.
2) - 3) I already stated that I would rather lynch than no lynch. You wouldn't? Cool. I don't care, that's your opinion and that's something we could spend days arguing about. That's not what this is about.
If you don't want to nitpick about what I thought LSB was, then don't nitpick about my actions on whether or not I tried to save him. I moved my vote off of him and gave reasoning why GM was the better lynch. That's 100% more than the majority of people in this game (including yourself I might add).
The last thing we need right now is a bandwagon vote onto the inactive Sheth.
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On December 24 2011 08:37 Foolishness wrote:
1) Yes, I already explained why I was interested in your in my earlier accusation of you. You claim to have been watching me this entire game (although you haven't done anything until now) yet you've spent your time against LSB too.
2) - 3) I already stated that I would rather lynch than no lynch. You wouldn't? Cool. I don't care, that's your opinion and that's something we could spend days arguing about. That's not what this is about.
If you don't want to nitpick about what I thought LSB was, then don't nitpick about my actions on whether or not I tried to save him. I moved my vote off of him and gave reasoning why GM was the better lynch. That's 100% more than the majority of people in this game (including yourself I might add).
The last thing we need right now is a bandwagon vote onto the inactive Sheth.
#1. Yes, I have been watching you the entire game. You weren't the best lynch day 1 because I thought LSB was far more likely to be scum. I know your play better than his, and your play day 1 was poor, but that was perhaps still explainable.
However, after you didn't die n1 and you were wrong about GM too I realized that either you shape up today, or you're scum. So far today you have not been impressive; indeed, you are wrong again.
#2 . I am not nitpicking about whether or not you tried to save him. Voting is only one step in trying to convince people. Merely voting and saying "oh I think the GM lynch is better" with barely any time left in the day, after all the Euros have gone to sleep, is not enough. You know that very well yourself; this game is as much about convincing others of your opinion as it is about being right.
For the record, you failed on both accounts; you were wrong, and you didn't convince anybody.
#3. I didn't try to convince people that LSB wasn't scum because I didn't believe he was town! So why are you accusing me of not taking action when I didn't agree with you in the first place?
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The vote counter will be out of action for awhile as I make some changes.
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@Chaoser: That "new style" post was done pre-game and it was basically an inside joke. There is nothing inconsistent with my switch from GM to LSB and stating you agree with someone else's reasoning is the same (or actually better) as repeating it word by word. Then what are those two post quotes intended to demonstrate? Laziness? Yes, that is how I play. The notion that you have to add to the existing case or even make up your own reasons to support a lynch is erroneous. All that is required is a "paper trail" so you can for instance be held accountable for inconsistencies and such. Bum voted without saying anything at all and also did the same with his other reads. This may be an indication of his alignment or of his laziness, but regardless I would be very interested to hear his reasoning.
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On December 24 2011 07:33 L wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 01:20 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On December 23 2011 16:32 L wrote:On December 23 2011 15:42 chaoser wrote:
Ok, you bring up a good point. I'll have to retread the whole claiming part of day 1 tomorrow but I still don't understand why gm would feel the need to lie at midnight, when all the actions have been set in stone and a lie would just confuse the town instead of being clean and simple. I feel like a more valid reason for the kills would be that a bus driver bussed his kill but that's also just speculation. RE: Bus driver Bus driver's possible, but the end result with respect to who mafia killed doesn't change, so it becomes entirely irrelevant whether or not he lied, only whether or not he shot Visc. If anyone bussed Visc/RoL they're either delusional or mafia, which means mafia has a bus driver. Which means this game is fucking broken. We can't call shots to confirm anyone. Roles like GM and LSB's can be rerouted with mafia knowledge of who's innocent to change a shot against mafia to a double townie kill. The only way of obtaining proper information about a shooter would be to have at least 3 people shoot during a night. But that's kinda beyond the fact. A driver is an assured +3 for mafia with a single night action. I hope you recognize that even hatters typically don't have that much firepower (3 bomb hatters are a +2 swing and take the entire game to set up). The only night action I've seen do more than a 3 kill swing for a team was the Murrayitis plague, but there were at least five plague related roles acting across 3-4(5?) days in the game that had to engineer the beautiful destruction that we set up for that one. RE: RoL I'm not claiming EITHER lied about their role. If LSB's role wasn't the same as GM's GM wouldn't have had a need to continue pushing him and would have said "oh shit, we DONT have the same role". But that's not the case. Nothing in ANY of LSBs or GMs post indicate that their vig shots do not work vs townies, with LSB basing his plea on the very fact that it does. GM replied to this very point without commenting on it. RE: GGQ So, you have VE shooting GM, who would die or confirm himself as green during the night. No. You also have 3 mafia KP per day which leads to LyLo on day 2 with a single missed justice vig. Double No. I don't like what you are doing. Its blatant fear mongering with insane theorizing behind this games set up. We can assume the mafia probably has a RB, and probably a GF, at most I'd give them one more power role which would probably be a medic which would encourage the idea of responsibility by allowing the mafia to punish the town trying to coordinate publicly. A bus driver makes the game crazy on so many levels while serving the same effect that a medic would by allowing them to disrupt hits, but would do it in a much more destructive manner. You go even farther to say that there must be a bus driver and this game is fucked. Stop talking about crazy shit and be productive, I will just kill you if I see you fear mongering and not being productive one more time, its scummy as shit L and its not going to fly. RE: You RoL, there's a difference between mildly not understanding logic and implying that I'm saying the opposite of what I'm saying. I said there CANNOT be a bus, specifically on the mafia team, because given the roles that have been claimed thus far it would be off the charts ridiculously powerful. Seriously, what the shit.
Why are you even talking about it then? No one mentioned it to begin with, the way you were wording it was strange and I see what you meant but why are you even analyzing what the fuck could of happened so hard? You are talking about elaborate scenarios that have no relevance.
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Okay, ZBot should now handle votes correctly even if one player's name is a substring of another's. Voting will resume whenever the host enters the vote counter inputs again. (I don't know what inputs they used.)
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On December 24 2011 09:25 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 07:33 L wrote:On December 24 2011 01:20 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On December 23 2011 16:32 L wrote:On December 23 2011 15:42 chaoser wrote:
Ok, you bring up a good point. I'll have to retread the whole claiming part of day 1 tomorrow but I still don't understand why gm would feel the need to lie at midnight, when all the actions have been set in stone and a lie would just confuse the town instead of being clean and simple. I feel like a more valid reason for the kills would be that a bus driver bussed his kill but that's also just speculation. RE: Bus driver Bus driver's possible, but the end result with respect to who mafia killed doesn't change, so it becomes entirely irrelevant whether or not he lied, only whether or not he shot Visc. If anyone bussed Visc/RoL they're either delusional or mafia, which means mafia has a bus driver. Which means this game is fucking broken. We can't call shots to confirm anyone. Roles like GM and LSB's can be rerouted with mafia knowledge of who's innocent to change a shot against mafia to a double townie kill. The only way of obtaining proper information about a shooter would be to have at least 3 people shoot during a night. But that's kinda beyond the fact. A driver is an assured +3 for mafia with a single night action. I hope you recognize that even hatters typically don't have that much firepower (3 bomb hatters are a +2 swing and take the entire game to set up). The only night action I've seen do more than a 3 kill swing for a team was the Murrayitis plague, but there were at least five plague related roles acting across 3-4(5?) days in the game that had to engineer the beautiful destruction that we set up for that one. RE: RoL I'm not claiming EITHER lied about their role. If LSB's role wasn't the same as GM's GM wouldn't have had a need to continue pushing him and would have said "oh shit, we DONT have the same role". But that's not the case. Nothing in ANY of LSBs or GMs post indicate that their vig shots do not work vs townies, with LSB basing his plea on the very fact that it does. GM replied to this very point without commenting on it. RE: GGQ So, you have VE shooting GM, who would die or confirm himself as green during the night. No. You also have 3 mafia KP per day which leads to LyLo on day 2 with a single missed justice vig. Double No. I don't like what you are doing. Its blatant fear mongering with insane theorizing behind this games set up. We can assume the mafia probably has a RB, and probably a GF, at most I'd give them one more power role which would probably be a medic which would encourage the idea of responsibility by allowing the mafia to punish the town trying to coordinate publicly. A bus driver makes the game crazy on so many levels while serving the same effect that a medic would by allowing them to disrupt hits, but would do it in a much more destructive manner. You go even farther to say that there must be a bus driver and this game is fucked. Stop talking about crazy shit and be productive, I will just kill you if I see you fear mongering and not being productive one more time, its scummy as shit L and its not going to fly. RE: You RoL, there's a difference between mildly not understanding logic and implying that I'm saying the opposite of what I'm saying. I said there CANNOT be a bus, specifically on the mafia team, because given the roles that have been claimed thus far it would be off the charts ridiculously powerful. Seriously, what the shit. Why are you even talking about it then? No one mentioned it to begin with, the way you were wording it was strange and I see what you meant but why are you even analyzing what the fuck could of happened so hard? You are talking about elaborate scenarios that have no relevance.
RE: Irrelevance
No, see, they do have relevance because they constitute the biggest piece of evidence that we've got: Figuring out who the mafia killed and why.
I think mafia killed Hydra/Jackal. I think that hydra can largely be explained based on his stature as a dangerous townie. I think Jackal cannot be.
If that's the case, then something in Jackal's posting history made him a lynch target. Which means that he probably indicated that he was suspicious of a mafia member. But going through Jackal's post history to try and find something important becomes kinda irrelevant if the reason why his death is evidence would be constestable.
So no, Foolishness and RoL. Its not irrelevant. I've asked for someone to come up with a better explanation regarding what happened. None have surfaced. So granted that there's no better explanation for what happened during the night, I'm going to start looking through Jackal's history.
There's another issue here with respect to Chez and the RB: given my analysis he's probably not lying which makes me think he's green.
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So L, you have a lot to say about trying to figure out who killed who, and how the night actions went down. Do you have anything to say about who you want to lynch, today?
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United States2095 Posts
On December 24 2011 08:27 chaoser wrote:
I am also open to a Sheth lynch
I'd really rather you not. I'm sorry for being inactive lately. However I'd understand if you want to, however realize your just hurting town with it.
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On December 24 2011 12:50 Liquid`Sheth wrote:I'd really rather you not. I'm sorry for being inactive lately. However I'd understand if you want to, however realize your just hurting town with it.
How am I hurting town? You have done almost nothing. Unless you actually start contributing, I'm totally up for a lynch on you.
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United States2095 Posts
I didn't say you specifically were. Just that lynching me off in the end would be bad for us. And yes I understand Chaoser, I'm working on it.
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On December 24 2011 12:48 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
So L, you have a lot to say about trying to figure out who killed who, and how the night actions went down. Do you have anything to say about who you want to lynch, today?
RE: Lynch choice.
I don't have one quite yet because the day's going super slow and my suspicions aren't confirmed.
But GGQ is the only person who Jackal's filter throws suspicion onto but I haven't had time to look through his posts properly yet. Also seems conflicting that his analysis, if I recall correctly, said that jackal was mafia killed. He wouldn't want to give that answer if that's why mafia hit jackal.
So I'm kinda looking through posts atm to see if anything else pops up.
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
I was planning on writing an analysis on Foolishness, but essentially it came down to the fact that he wasn't putting any effort in and didn't care about the direction the town was taking. Looking back at his past games on day one, they all seem pretty similar, with minimal posting and a bit of trolling regardless of alignment. I'm still learning scum on him based on his general attitude and would probably be willing to lynch him today, but I'm having trouble coming up with a strong case against him from the current set of posts. As for his case against bugs, I'm leaning town on bugs at the moment. bugs was one of the leaders of the LSB lynch and I don't think its likely that as scum he would be willing to focus himself as the center of attention on day one causing the green flip.
The person I think we should focus on today as one of our main lynch candidates is prplhz.
In Team Melee Mini , I was able to pick out prpl as town relatively early because he clearly wasn't ever hesitant before pushing the post button. He would post the first thing that came to his mind, without double checking if it would get him in trouble. One-liners are extremely common from him and prpl has always had trouble coming off as a scummy town in the games I have played with him, with the exception of election mafia. In addition, he is always willing to directly argue with a player or call them out for the questionable logic.
Now take a look at his most recent game as scum, TL Mafia XLVII. He starts off with a monster post about town behavior and his campaign for election. He follows by sharing his opinion on all the other candidates and presents the town with his own gameplan. The most striking difference is the effort he puts into being seen as someone who is making a contribution.
Just take a look at these two filters, so see how different the approach is.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=281403&user=126438
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285690&user=126438&user=126438
So far this game, prpl has extremely few one-liners or overly aggressive posts that could get him in trouble. Instead, he is getting by with a series of posts that attempt to pass as a contribution, however, are actually rather bland in content. Most noteworthy is the fact that he has managed to get by without causing conflict or directly engaging any other players.
One of the only people he references on day one is GMarshal, bringing up a post that appears scummy to him. However, after commenting on it, he mentions that there are better lynch candidates, without specifying who they are or what they have done to be better. He brings up GGQ, but simply mentions that he is a lurker.
He shows back up before the lynch and questions the legitimacy of the analysis on LSB, yet votes for him anyways. He mentions that LSB is the best lynch, without actually providing a reason supporting his claim. This is also the first time he has brought up LSB all day.
After voting, again he brings up how the case on LSB is weak, without moving his vote. He brings up how GMarshal would never claim a suicide vig as scum, yet ignores the fact that LSB just did the same exact thing.
The only major analysis prpl has done so far has been on the three posts of BC.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=295384¤tpage=36#715
To me it seems more like a summary, rather than an analysis. The biggest offense he makes with this post is that he doesn't actually come to a conclusion. He posts that BC has been hostile, but doesn't indicate how that reflects his alignment. prpl mentions how he would rather lynch BC over LSB, but never actually explains why he thinks BC is scum. Furthermore, when day two along, he switches his vote to Cheiznu, only referencing BC.
As for his explanation for voting Chezinu, he makes a huge jump from "Chezinu claims roleblock" to "Chezinu is a lying scum". He explains that Chezinu could be claiming rb as scum as an attempt to gain town cred, but doesn't appear to consider the fact that Chezinu could actually have been roleblocked, which is extremely weird.
Overall, prpl has been skating by without getting in peoples faces and has failed to bring up any new ideas the entire game. I think he is scum.
##Vote prplhz
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On December 24 2011 04:26 syllogism wrote:
If that's a waste of time, could you tell us who you would lynch? You placeholder voted yesterday and I don't see a single hint in your filter of you even implying who you find scummy
Who do you find scummy syllo? So far today, the only thing you have done is show up to defend yourself about the change in play style comment. What do you think about prplhz?
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@kitaman27
You use my town meta from Team Melee Mafia. A game where I was town and managed to get myself lynched day1. I thought I'd change my game since I was apparently doing something really wrong. It's cool that you thought that I was town in that game but not a lot of other people did, so I wanted to change my game.
Why aren't you using my meta fro XLVIII or from Election Mafia? These are recent games where I play in a different way and I get killed by scum early on instead of getting lynched by town early on. Isn't it more likely that I would want to play like I did in XLVIII and Election Mafia instead of how I played in Team Melee Mafia? chaoser has already brought up how I'm not playing like I usually do and I redirected him to a post where Radfield uses the same argument in XLVIII. We were both town in that game.
I woke in the middle of the night to participate in the lynch as well as I could. I didn't really think that LSB was scum but I wanted to lynch somebody and by the time I was up to date on the thread I felt like it was way to late for me to try to get somebody else lynched. I was tired and I just wanted to see if I was needed or if I could contribute anything but I didn't feel like I could and so I just left my vote and I went back to bed.
I haven't been skimping on giving my opinion on anybody this game. I don't know what you mean about "not getting in anyone's face", I have been in BloodyC0bbler's face. Whose face have you been in besides Liquid`Sheth's? Also, I do come to a conclusion in my post, what are you talking about?
As for me changing my opinion, I don't think I am the greatest scum hunter ever. The most valuable thing I can contribute is my own opinion, but I think that can be wrong. That's why I throw ideas out there and then I see if people latch on to them. There are 10 other townies in this game, if what I am saying is prudent then some of them will listen to it and back me up. For the BloodyC0bbler analysis I got feedback from like three people, one of them turned out to be the traitor, and wherebugsgo didn't like it. That's why I dropped it, it's probably not a good lynch if nobody likes it as a lynch. I still find him scummy though and I'd like to lynch him if people come around, because people will come around if they realize he's a good lynch.
The same thing with Chezinu. I thought it was weird that he said "I was roleblocked, and I don't want to play anymore because this game is imbalanced", ESPECIALLY IN A CLOSED SETUP. What the hell does he know about the setup? Also his entire game has been a weird rebellion against Ver or something, he's making sense sometimes but it's hard to read, in XLVII VisceraEyes did a similar thing, he tunneled Palmar all day long and he didn't have to contribute a lot because of that. Chezinu tunnels Ver or something like that, while making obscure posts and weird claims, it is impossible to get a read on him but then he said something concrete that I felt didn't add up so I wanted to lynch him. People didn't latch on to it so now I am looking into RebirthOfLeGenD.
As for the "he has failed to bring up new ideas" thing, that doesn't matter. An idea isn't good just because it is new and it is better to support existing good opinion than supporting your own original bad opinion. I have tried to do this in this game, I have taken inspiration from other people while I have tried to contribute myself, it is debatable whether I have brought anything good into this game and it doesn't matter if I have brought anything new into this game.
Do you really think that I am scum?
I feel like you are a bit lost in this game, then you fall back on some meta you have with me from ages ago when I played terribly and then you just write up an analysis to conclude that I'm scum. Either that or you are scum, maybe I should finish reading RebirthOfLeGenD in TMM and Personality Mafia and read some of your games, can you direct me to a recent game of yours where you were scum and one where you were town?
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EPT
