Responsibility Mafia! - Page 4

wherebugsgo

Japan10647 Posts

December 23 2011 03:42 GMT

#738

at what point did BC pop in "just to defend himself"?

All I remember is him calling out Palmar on bad play, not posting to defend himself. This is a legitimate question (posting from phone atm) though, I'm just wondering where you're getting this.

wherebugsgo

Japan10647 Posts

December 23 2011 05:12 GMT

#754

On December 23 2011 14:06 Foolishness wrote:
noooo not RoL! You could have shot bugs!

what the

wherebugsgo

Japan10647 Posts

December 23 2011 05:58 GMT

#781

On December 23 2011 10:09 wherebugsgo wrote:

Show nested quote +

yeah, as town. I'm pretty sure one of the best scum players on this forum wouldn't fall to basic scumtells that prplhz pointed out.

one of prpl's points was that "maybe BC doesn't enjoy playing scum," which is just ludicrous, given his reputation.

What's bothering me more is not that prpl made the case, since prpl probably doesn't know BC's play that well, but the fact that Palmar said he agreed with everything he said. That's weird.

On December 23 2011 12:04 wherebugsgo wrote:

Show nested quote +

nope, I just have a problem with bad arguments.

prplhz's arguments for BC being scum are bad, but his effort is town-like.

Your arguments have been bad and your effort is not town-like. You agree with bad arguments for BC being scum despite knowing BC better than prplhz. What gives?

bam son.

however, we lost a LOT of townies last night. We need to hit scum today. I say we kill Foolishness.

wherebugsgo

Japan10647 Posts

December 23 2011 06:03 GMT

#783

oh wait wtf RoL didn't die?

If GM shot at a townie does it mean he would kill both the townie and himself? Or would GM just die and the townie would live?

If GM would have simply died and RoL would've survived then we know nothing about RoL's alignment. However in the former case we have to lynch him.

wherebugsgo

Japan10647 Posts

December 23 2011 09:56 GMT

#810

On December 23 2011 18:41 prplhz wrote:
Hey guys

I like GGQ's explanation of night actions. VisceraEyes bombed bumatlarge in Election Mafia on a somewhat flimsy reasonable, he's crazy like that. I think he shot GMarshal. I don't think mafia would shoot VisceraEyes on day1, which is why VisceraEyes shouldn't shoot on day1 if he's blue but again, he's crazy like that.

I think GMarshal was roleblocked last night, because who else would mafia roleblock? If he was roleblocked and he survived there could have been massive chaos day2 and he's a claimed blue who said he'd shoot somebody in the face, scum knows that he isn't kidding around so he's absolutely their best target for roleblock. I think that Chezinu is lying about his roleblock, consequently making him mafia. What do you guys think about that?

I'd post more about him but he's kinda hard to read you know.

so in order for your version of events to be true, Chezinu has to be lying, or there must be two roleblockers.

Which one is it? Is Chezinu lying, or are there two roleblockers?

wherebugsgo

Japan10647 Posts

December 23 2011 10:11 GMT

#813

On December 23 2011 18:57 prplhz wrote:
Okay why the hell would Chezinu claim roleblocked as scum?

First of all it gives you some town credit if the guy who was roleblocked, and if nobody claims roleblocked today we'd know tomorrow that one of the dead was roleblocked (if scum has a roleblocker). Second of all, if Chezinu was roleblocked then GMarshal wouldn't have been roleblocked and he would have shot someone. This would severely mess up our flip analysis if we think that GMarshal actually shot one of VisceraEyes/Jackal58/SamuelLJackson. I don't think he shot any of those, I think he shot RebirthOfLeGenD, because he said he would in his 14:00 KST post.

So yea, lets kill Chezinu? What do you feel about that bumatlarge?

##Vote Chezinu

I'm still not over BloodyC0bbler by the way, and I'd like wherebugsgo to show me why we should kill Foolishness.

I'll explain more in detail once I've slept, but essentially just look at Foolishness's filter. In general, Foolishness has been very apathetic toward town events and he sheeped the LSB vote despite saying earlier he did not like the case. What has he contributed?

Why is he behaving like this in a game full of vets who all know how good he is as town? Why did he call Palmar town when there wasn't much for him to say that the post Palmar made "would never be made as scum?"

This isn't the town Foolishness I know. Even when I asked him questions he clarified next to nothing. His thoughts are not clear and I don't like it. I'd like to give him an opportunity to redeem himself, since he is by far the best asset we have if he is town, but at this point I have no reason to believe he is town and very many to believe he is scum.

As for BC, I really doubt he's scum. Your case on him is weak. This is why I was particularlyI confused Palmar supported it. He knows BC's play better than you do, so why would he support such a bad case?

Obviously, we now know it was because he wasn't town.

wherebugsgo

Japan10647 Posts

December 23 2011 21:17 GMT

#837

Foolishness, I'm not calling people retards because I was warned not to say the word "fuck." tbh, I'd call you all idiots right now because this entire town is playing horribly, you included, but that's against the spirit of this game. I'd never called for you to die until it was obvious you'd be useless. If you are town, you are the best asset we have. So why the hell would anyone want to kill you day 1? Now, you're alive day 2 and all you've provided is a terribad case on me. You're not town.

I don't understand GGQ's rationale for automatically assuming Chezinu is lying about the roleblock. There's only one way to really find out, and that's to lynch him. However, at the moment Chezinu is not a very good lynch at all.

I'll elaborate more when I'm back; posting from my phone ATM.

wherebugsgo

Japan10647 Posts

December 23 2011 22:44 GMT

#840

Foolishness I have a question for you:

If you truly believed LSB was town day 1 why did you not speak up? Why did you put in near 0 effort to show to us that he was town? Why did you defend him on meta grounds but not offer examples of the games he's played?

Foolishness, why are you so damn lazy?

wherebugsgo

Japan10647 Posts

December 23 2011 23:20 GMT

#842

On December 24 2011 08:04 Foolishness wrote:

Show nested quote +

On December 24 2011 07:33 L wrote:

On December 24 2011 01:20 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:

On December 23 2011 16:32 L wrote:

On December 23 2011 15:42 chaoser wrote:
Ok, you bring up a good point. I'll have to retread the whole claiming part of day 1 tomorrow but I still don't understand why gm would feel the need to lie at midnight, when all the actions have been set in stone and a lie would just confuse the town instead of being clean and simple. I feel like a more valid reason for the kills would be that a bus driver bussed his kill but that's also just speculation.

RE: Bus driver

Bus driver's possible, but the end result with respect to who mafia killed doesn't change, so it becomes entirely irrelevant whether or not he lied, only whether or not he shot Visc. If anyone bussed Visc/RoL they're either delusional or mafia, which means mafia has a bus driver.

Which means this game is fucking broken. We can't call shots to confirm anyone. Roles like GM and LSB's can be rerouted with mafia knowledge of who's innocent to change a shot against mafia to a double townie kill. The only way of obtaining proper information about a shooter would be to have at least 3 people shoot during a night.

But that's kinda beyond the fact. A driver is an assured +3 for mafia with a single night action. I hope you recognize that even hatters typically don't have that much firepower (3 bomb hatters are a +2 swing and take the entire game to set up). The only night action I've seen do more than a 3 kill swing for a team was the Murrayitis plague, but there were at least five plague related roles acting across 3-4(5?) days in the game that had to engineer the beautiful destruction that we set up for that one.

RE: RoL

I'm not claiming EITHER lied about their role. If LSB's role wasn't the same as GM's GM wouldn't have had a need to continue pushing him and would have said "oh shit, we DONT have the same role". But that's not the case.

Nothing in ANY of LSBs or GMs post indicate that their vig shots do not work vs townies, with LSB basing his plea on the very fact that it does. GM replied to this very point without commenting on it.

RE: GGQ

So, you have VE shooting GM, who would die or confirm himself as green during the night. No. You also have 3 mafia KP per day which leads to LyLo on day 2 with a single missed justice vig. Double No.

I don't like what you are doing. Its blatant fear mongering with insane theorizing behind this games set up. We can assume the mafia probably has a RB, and probably a GF, at most I'd give them one more power role which would probably be a medic which would encourage the idea of responsibility by allowing the mafia to punish the town trying to coordinate publicly. A bus driver makes the game crazy on so many levels while serving the same effect that a medic would by allowing them to disrupt hits, but would do it in a much more destructive manner.

You go even farther to say that there must be a bus driver and this game is fucked. Stop talking about crazy shit and be productive, I will just kill you if I see you fear mongering and not being productive one more time, its scummy as shit L and its not going to fly.

RE: You
RoL, there's a difference between mildly not understanding logic and implying that I'm saying the opposite of what I'm saying.

I said there CANNOT be a bus, specifically on the mafia team, because given the roles that have been claimed thus far it would be off the charts ridiculously powerful.

Seriously, what the shit.

Stop debating nonsense. It's clear that nothing you or RoL have said today is going to lead anywhere except distraction land.

Show nested quote +

Because I did not truly believe he was town. I thought that GM was a much better lynch given the events that had transpired (I talked about this in a post I made at the end of the day). And I wouldn't go so far to say I put in near zero effort, I certainly moved my vote to GMarshal and explained my reasoning. Though at this point it was already very late in the day and there was much more interesting things to observe (such as who was bandwagoning LSB and what not).

And I defended him on meta grounds relatively early in the day, not anywhere near the claim (correct me if I'm wrong though). And I certainly didn't do anything concrete; I just filtered his posts in this game and one of his mafia games and didn't see anything glaringly similar. Then I checked one of his townie games and this game looked more similar to that. There wasn't any rigorous deduction there.

And also, I'm willing to hold everyone else accountable for being lazy at this point. Let us both recap what has happened day 2. Wiggles makes a very very safe accusation against Sheth. Sheth has hardly done anything in response. L is writing text walls. RoL and a few others are debating what happened to GM which is clearly not leading anywhere. chaoser is clearly bored out of his mind.

Day is like 20 hours over and there have been 2 votes, my vote for you and a very odd case against Chezinu. Clearly the mafia are shaking in their boots /sarcasm.

Right, so here's the problems I have:

#1. You say that you found that there were very interesting things to observe late in the day yesterday, specifically regarding who was willing to bandwagon LSB. Yet, your concern is not with the bandwagoners but with me, who started the case. Your words here don't line up with your actions.

#2. You didn't 'truly' believe he was town. Why nitpick here? I am not asking for semantics. I am asking whether or not you believed LSB to be town yesterday. Everything you said and did suggested that you believed LSB was town, yet you did next to nothing to stop the lynch. You were apathetic as fuck when it came to LSB. These posts:

On December 21 2011 09:45 Foolishness wrote:

Show nested quote +

Not a good day 1 lynch (at this point at least)

On December 21 2011 13:51 Foolishness wrote:
I will support BC in everything at this point because he used the word asshattery.

Filter LSB's posts. Filter LSB's posts from any game he's town. Notice the similarity?

On December 22 2011 09:51 Foolishness wrote:
##Vote: LSB

I will be back before day ends to change if necessary. I'm still against but as always I'd rather lynch than no lynch.

+ Show Spoiler +

Estimated number of people who will quote this post and call me mafia cause of it: 4
Estimated people: Palmar, Jackal, Curu/sandroba, kitaman

were the only posts you made about LSB yesterday prior to the claim, all suggesting you already knew what LSB would flip, but were not willing or concerned enough to stop us from going the extra length to kill him.

#3. My whole point was that you didn't do anything concrete! This is lazy and bad play. You, lazy and bad? Yeah, that really sounds like what you'd do as town. Why would you just let a good townie like LSB get lynched if you thought he was unlikely to flip scum?

What about that bullshit excuse that you'd rather have a lynch than a no lynch? I would rather no-lynch if it ensured a townie survived. You even thought that GM was more likely to be scum than LSB, but clearly you were wrong about him too. Instead, you voted off LSB very late in the day onto GM. Now it looks like you were simply trying to absolve yourself of responsibility for voting LSB and watching idly as he died.

#4. With that in mind, this:

On December 24 2011 08:04 Foolishness wrote:
And also, I'm willing to hold everyone else accountable for being lazy at this point. Let us both recap what has happened day 2. Wiggles makes a very very safe accusation against Sheth. Sheth has hardly done anything in response. L is writing text walls. RoL and a few others are debating what happened to GM which is clearly not leading anywhere. chaoser is clearly bored out of his mind.

Day is like 20 hours over and there have been 2 votes, my vote for you and a very odd case against Chezinu. Clearly the mafia are shaking in their boots /sarcasm.

is incredibly damning.

You're not willing to take on the responsibility of your actions yesterday, but are more than willing to blame everyone else for what happened. Yeah, that's a great way to play. Who cares about what you did, right? Cause obviously your play was so much better than all of ours. Maybe we should've listened to you and lynched GM instead!

Oh but wait, the end result would've been the same. And you knew that. That's why you took your vote off LSB and put it on GM. However, I don't think you anticipated GM would die. You talked about the RB as if you knew GM would get RBed, as if you knew what would happen. You knew GM would live and you knew you could lock the lynch down today on GM. Miscalculation on your part, and now you've been outed as scum.

##vote Foolishness

wherebugsgo

Japan10647 Posts

December 23 2011 23:29 GMT

#845

also, I should note, that because of this, I now very strongly believe either Chezinu is lying about that RB, or that there exist at least two roleblocking roles in the game. From what Foolishness has said, I am certain scum roleblocked GM.

Chezinu might have been roleblocked by a town roleblocker yesterday, if this is true. He could also be scum. As of now I don't believe Chezinu is scum.

To the players who believe Chezinu is scum: (i.e. prplhz) please provide a detailed case as to why you believe he is scum and not town. I will do my own rereading of Chezinu's posts, to see if I have missed anything. I don't think I have, though, seeing as I've read the thread at least 3 times now (not hard, seeing as no one is doing anything)

wherebugsgo

Japan10647 Posts

December 23 2011 23:45 GMT

#847

On December 24 2011 08:37 Foolishness wrote:
1) Yes, I already explained why I was interested in your in my earlier accusation of you. You claim to have been watching me this entire game (although you haven't done anything until now) yet you've spent your time against LSB too.

2) - 3) I already stated that I would rather lynch than no lynch. You wouldn't? Cool. I don't care, that's your opinion and that's something we could spend days arguing about. That's not what this is about.

If you don't want to nitpick about what I thought LSB was, then don't nitpick about my actions on whether or not I tried to save him. I moved my vote off of him and gave reasoning why GM was the better lynch. That's 100% more than the majority of people in this game (including yourself I might add).

The last thing we need right now is a bandwagon vote onto the inactive Sheth.

#1. Yes, I have been watching you the entire game. You weren't the best lynch day 1 because I thought LSB was far more likely to be scum. I know your play better than his, and your play day 1 was poor, but that was perhaps still explainable.

However, after you didn't die n1 and you were wrong about GM too I realized that either you shape up today, or you're scum. So far today you have not been impressive; indeed, you are wrong again.

#2 . I am not nitpicking about whether or not you tried to save him. Voting is only one step in trying to convince people. Merely voting and saying "oh I think the GM lynch is better" with barely any time left in the day, after all the Euros have gone to sleep, is not enough. You know that very well yourself; this game is as much about convincing others of your opinion as it is about being right.

For the record, you failed on both accounts; you were wrong, and you didn't convince anybody.

#3. I didn't try to convince people that LSB wasn't scum because I didn't believe he was town! So why are you accusing me of not taking action when I didn't agree with you in the first place?

wherebugsgo

Japan10647 Posts

December 24 2011 20:58 GMT

#869

Activity this game is depressing

I guess we knew we'd have to deal with this because of the holidays, though. Oh well.

I'm on my phone ATM; can everyone who is here explain who they would like to lynch and why? By my last vote count we had a half-dozen single votes on people.

wherebugsgo

Japan10647 Posts

December 25 2011 06:10 GMT

#882

BC just claimed he shot GM o_O

sup confusion

wherebugsgo

Japan10647 Posts

December 25 2011 11:11 GMT

#887

prpl are you seriously still this bad or are you actually scum this game?

wherebugsgo

Japan10647 Posts

December 27 2011 07:23 GMT

#924

Don't talk to Foolishness, he's scum.

wherebugsgo

Japan10647 Posts

December 27 2011 12:53 GMT

#925

Alright, it's 5 am and this thread sucks so I figured I'd try to jumpstart it before sleeping. I have jury duty today; luckily, it's night and not day so it doesn't matter too much.

I suppose people will excuse themselves for the inactivity yesterday and the day before because of Christmas and stuff. Well, we wasted a lot of time, but one good thing happened: BC wasn't lynched, and that's great since I don't actually believe he's scum.

We need information, and we need discussion. We have next to nothing following the events of n1. No one commented on my case on Foolishness. No one did anything except bandwagon BC, really. Five/six of you can't all be scum. Surely there are probably multiple scum on the BC wagon, but we are actually not in a great position to find out who, since a bunch of the votes were literally identical. And by identical, I mean terrible.

We are also not in a position to lynch all of them in the attempt to simply wipe out scum, in hopes that all of them were on the BC wagon. 10v4 going into n2 with one scum flipped and he probably wasn't even connected to the mafia team. Not a great position for us.

I will post specific thoughts right before deadline in case I get shot. We should perhaps use this time for discussion, since we've lacked it so far, but I'm wary because it can easily affect night actions as well. Thus, since I'll be done with jury duty in time, I'll just seed all my thoughts on scum into the thread right before deadline.

wherebugsgo

Japan10647 Posts

December 28 2011 02:11 GMT

#933

I'm around now, what's up?

wherebugsgo

Japan10647 Posts

December 28 2011 02:54 GMT

#936

feel better about him than I do about Foolishness or Chezinu!

Upon rereading I think RoL has been acting rather town-like. The GM business doesn't make sense unless GM was RBed. We don't know that for sure unless Chezinu is lying or trolling. This is the problem atm.

So, we lynch one of Foolishness/Chezinu tomorrow IMO. I guess if there's a convincing argument for RoL being scum I'd be willing to lynch him too. Chezinu very well could be lying/trolling. He did nothing today, though he did more day 1. His activity dropped off like a scum's would. At first I didn't believe he was lying. Now I'm more willing to entertain that idea.

also my bad, I'm playing LoL :p I got back from jury duty and I feel lazy.