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We need more information up in here. A lot of people haven't voted and the thread is relatively inactive. Most of those who have voted have not provided many reasons for their votes, but not all of them can be scum. So, let's get some information flowing!
On December 21 2011 22:03 Chezinu wrote:
Red colors!
My new eyes seems to see colors very well!
##Vote: Palmar
Chezinu, can you explain this vote?
What about Palmar or his posting do you find scummy?
Clarity would be nice, since we can't read your mind.
On December 21 2011 13:25 bumatlarge wrote:@Palmar: I never claimed blue, I just said I had a triggered ability. It's a semi-claim that I think town needs to be aware is in the game. Show nested quote +On December 21 2011 10:04 Palmar wrote:
Actually, upon re-reading... are you claiming mason with Chez bum? I wouldn't say mason, but I'm a Chez-Whisperer if you will. LSB has been spouting non-sense. I would revoke any vet protection day 1 he might garner just on what I've seen. In a game where we have too many candidates to lynch I would be against lynching a vet, but every player in the roster can play very well. I think we have to judge on present performance to get our best day 1 result. Foolishness is no plum pudding either. L has been mad poignant this game, I want to keep him around as long as possible from what I can tell. Oh shit, there is BC as well, and he's mad poignant too. Chez, I think LSB>Foolishness>Palmar on the Scumdar-dar. What you think?
Bum, I want more.
You say LSB>Foolishness>Palmar on the scumdar-dar (what does the second dar mean lolol)
Okay, so if LSB has been spouting nonsense and he is ahead of Foolishness and Palmar on your list, why are you voting Palmar instead?
What makes Palmar and Foolishness scummy? I agree that Foolishness looks relatively bad from his posting alone. However, from my time with him in PYP:I, I recall that he said he doesn't usually do anything day 1. This was true in XLIV too, where he did very little day 1. I can't see anything that would suggest he is town or scum at this point, and I think we have better targets.
Palmar, on the other hand, has been playing to his normal town self. His vote reason for L is really dumb, as even town players stretch LaL a lot.
@Palmar, remember we stretched LaL in XLVII with respect to youngminii and we were both wrong. This doesn't mean that L using LaL on you is an indication that he is scum. What, beyond the "stretch," as you say, makes L scum?
Finally, L is also likely to be town, IMO. All of the votes on Palmar right now are really dumb, but L at least had been making sense prior to his relatively stupid post on probabilities leading to Palmar being scum.
@L, why are you focusing so much on Palmar? Can you explain what, besides the lynch rates you claim he is lying about, makes Palmar mafia? If no, then why are you still voting him? Why do you not consider other people for lynch today, such as LSB?
@Foolishness, I realize your town meta is "be useless day 1 into rape scumteam day 2" but if we are not afforded the luxury of having you around day 2 I would love to hear your thoughts and opinions on who is scum as soon as you can give them to us. You are a valuable asset to town, and the day 1 lynch is as important as any other. This isn't a town full of new players, so lurking day 1 isn't going to afford you any protection. Can you explain why you are choosing to lurk and post relatively little anyway? What is the disadvantage of you posting a lot?
+ Show Spoiler +I can see one, and that's you being scum and not wanting to post.
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On December 22 2011 06:23 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2011 05:55 wherebugsgo wrote:
Jackal, can you explain what makes you suspicious of LSB? Simple. His reason for not wanting to lynch somebody is ludicrous. Particularly in this game. The person he chose as a bad lynch target was Foolishness. Simply because he's a vet. I'm pretty sure I saw Annul receive the same defense day 1 in 48. Ya I know I did. I did it. He has also completely ignored my comment and my vote. You know what? I do the same thing when I'm scum and a single person fos's me or votes me. I ignore it. Why draw attention to it if everybody is ignoring it? I think LSB is scum. He tries to deflect a lynch target with bs reasoning. I think the target he was deflecting from - Foolishness is also scum. Foolishness is not a person that gimps through day one as a townie.
yeah, I saw that just now when I went back to read what transpired while I was asleep, and I agree.
Indeed the fact that he doesn't want to lynch a vet in a game full of vets is really incredibly strange. He told me to read the OP but apparently he missed the fact that this was an invitation game? Why would Ver invite people who are not vets? Lol.
What do you think of Foolishness? He appeared keen to defend LSB by saying that his meta fits. Have you played with LSB before, and would you say that this is accurate?
Earlier in the game I asked for explanation of L's, LSB's, and Chezinu's metas. I got none. So far I have that Chezinu makes obscure posts and is hard to understand. Other than that, I know very little about L and LSB. Can you explain what you know about them?
On December 22 2011 06:23 Jackal58 wrote:
GGQ is another that has 1 real post in the game. He stated in that post that he's ok with a the case on Chezinu and would support his lynch. Except there is no case on Chez. Just some early policy lynch talk but he has no votes. Then GGQ says he would support an LSB lynch but the case is really weak but hey I'll kill him anyways but it's a bad idea.
Palmar and L are either both townies or both scum. I know Palmar loves to have pissing contests with his scum buddies on day 1. I've been the other half of that duo with him before. And their argument is so fucking inane it's well within the realm of possibility they are both scum. I'm undecided on both as yet. But I'll wager whatever the one flips the other will as well.
So ya right now I'd be cool with everybody consolidating their votes on LSB. He should be the first domino to fall for team red.
Yes; Chezinu is definitely the easy target for people to want to lynch based on actually not reading anything in the thread, since his playstyle so far has been that of obscurity.
I tend to agree with you as well on Palmar+L, although I think they are far more likely to both be town than both scum.
Wow, this is fucking weird. I agreed with you with almost everything. I think the world is ending.
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On December 22 2011 06:19 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
##Vote: Chezinu
Working on finals stuff. Consider it a placeholder if you will.
what the
you scum, bro? you were this inactive in couple's therapy too. Every now and then you'd pop in and say "hey I'll be back later"
...
Anyone else find RoL suspicious, or am I seeing things?
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What about his scum meta?
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On December 22 2011 06:55 GMarshal wrote: Part 2: Picking and Choosing. Who to lynch day 1 LSB: Well, he hasn't come up with a mega plan yet, but I find wbg analysis against him to be quite weak. The fact is I expect better play from LSB overall. One point I didn't see brought up is that LSB seems to be lacking confidence, Town LSB is supremely confident, I don't get that "feel" here. his defense seems ok. I wanted to comment on him since he was a lynch target at some point.
What part about me calling LSB timid isn't saying he lacks confidence?
Did you even read my case? Did you read the posts other players have made about LSB?
I don't like the vibe you're giving off.
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On December 22 2011 07:10 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2011 10:28 LSB wrote:
Well that concludes that debacle
wherebugsgo: Greenish read. He sounds far to much like a tunneling townie than a calculated bus. Especially since he grasp at any straws to try to get his push through, rather than abandoning a hopeless case.
WBG, do you consider the bolded word in LSB's ultimate read of you post your case to be a slip? He's referring to your case on him as tunneling, why would it be a 'bus' unless he were considering you to be scum making a case on him (who he knows is scum?) I know I argued that vet players don't typically make this kind of slip, but...read it. If he were town, why would he phrase it that way? Why would he not say something like "...too much like tunneling townie than scummy attempt to push a mislynch"? I still don't like the slips you found, but what do you think of mine? The rest of LSB's posts since your case have been pretty bad universally, and I'm ultimately willing to add my token to his kettle. ##Vote: LSB
what are you implying? That I am scum with LSB based on one word he said? That LSB is trying to sacrifice himself if he can get me mislynched afterward?
I didn't actually notice this. It probably means LSB is indeed scum, has no confidence in his play anymore, and is trying to do as much damage as he can before he falls by subtly calling this a bus.
I can assure you that LSB and I are not scum together. I have always hated bussing, except in extraordinary circumstances where it is absolutely necessary. Indeed, if you don't believe me on that, go check out Mini X, where I basically soft defended Wiggles all of day 1 and actually messed up by not bussing him, because I really didn't want to and I thought there were other ways of approaching the game in self-preservation than killing my own teammate.
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On December 22 2011 07:28 VisceraEyes wrote:WBG, that's not what I was implying at all. If I thought that, I wouldn't have directed the question at you would I? Never does any good to try and convince scum that they're scum, amirite? No, I wanted your opinion. It looked like a slip to me, and you've proven to be keen on looking for slips, so I wanted your opinion on it. It read to me as an accident...like, he posted what his actual thought process was instead of what his revised, "town"-persona thought-process should have been. I've got you as a pretty strong town read atm, don't fuck it up with paranoia. 
No worries, that was a very good catch. I agree with you somewhat on that; I think it's actually an intentional slip.
The term "bus," afaik, only means one mafia player who pushes his own teammate to lynch. Throwing his teammate under the bus, if you will. In this case LSB used it such that he wanted someone to catch it and think it was true. Thus, I think it was intentional, and I think he wanted people to think I am scum bussing him.
Not subtle enough, LSB! You die now.
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On December 22 2011 07:27 SamuelLJackson wrote:
@GMarshal I want to you to answer this honestly: How carefully are you reading the thread?
/sandroba
sandro was it you or curu who initially agreed with the LSB case I made?
Can you explain your current thoughts on the game? What do you think of Palmar/L? RoL? Foolishness?
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On December 22 2011 07:46 SamuelLJackson wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2011 07:37 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 22 2011 07:27 SamuelLJackson wrote:
@GMarshal I want to you to answer this honestly: How carefully are you reading the thread?
/sandroba sandro was it you or curu who initially agreed with the LSB case I made? Can you explain your current thoughts on the game? What do you think of Palmar/L? RoL? Foolishness? It was me. I think I signed that post. I don't want palmar/L lynched. I don't like how foolishness is playing, but I've seen him play like this as town. Even in this roster he is likely to get shot if he is town night 1, because he usually engages turbo mode day2 onwards, so I don't agree with lynching him today either. Whoever is here day 2 should hold foolishness to a high standard day 2 though if he survives. RoL isn't doing shit and I wouldn't mind seeing him gone.
Yeah, I agree with you.
The weird thing about Foolishness, for me, is that he should know that lurking today should offer him no protection. In a game full of people who KNOW he's good, why would he lurk day 1 as town? How does that further the goal of surviving to crush the scum day 2 onwards? I fully understand why he does it in other games. However, I've asked for his opinions several times and he doesn't give much. He says LSB's meta fits his town meta, but then Jackal says the opposite. I really don't like how Foolish is playing right now.
Do you think GM is more likely to be scum or town at this point?
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GGQ do you plan on being useful?
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On December 22 2011 07:59 SamuelLJackson wrote:
Well despite the fact that it is clear that he is not reading the thread carefully, the fact that he pointed out several "scummy" things in our behavior coupled with his previous inclination to getting us killed for being hydra alone and NOT voting for us, but voting kita very late without even trying to get him lynch seems much more likely to be scum. I'm also getting cold feet on LSB since there is no one REALLY pushing him and no fail proof case and yet he is pilling up votes like they are nothing.
yep, the only thing that is giving me pause about LSB is how many easy votes he's received recently.
I'd be completely fine with lynching GGQ or GM, as well. Neither of them seem to have any intention of actually doing anything. GGQ just pointed out that GM apparently repeated him, which is simply an indication that they both are dead weight at this point.
The case on LSB is stronger than either of these two other players, though. I'd rather lynch LSB. If someone can make a good convincing reason why we shouldn't lynch LSB, please do so now. I'd be willing to switch to GGQ or GM if it is convincing enough.
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On December 22 2011 08:02 GGQ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2011 07:57 wherebugsgo wrote:
GGQ do you plan on being useful?
To the best of my abilities.
So the best of your abilities is repeatedly posting one liners and not actually contributing to useful discussion?
What do you think of LSB? Of GM? Foolishness? RoL? Palmar/L?
How do you feel about the fact that I want to kill you?
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On December 22 2011 08:15 Palmar wrote:
I don't understand why GGQ would be a better lynch target than BC, if we're defaulting to a lurker.
I'm going to read LSB's filter before I go to bed, I found WBG's initial case dumb/forced. That doesn't say anything about LSB's alignment though.
I'd love to hear what your actual criticisms of my case are, instead of repeatedly saying that it is dumb/forced.
At no point did I accuse LSB of being an SK, either. I actually just thought that mafia could be given information about the existence of one. Qatol's answer to my question does not further anything on that front, so only mafia know what mafia know.
Thus, at best, the whole part about LSB mentioning the SK is irrelevant. That doesn't detract from the actual case I made, which is that LSB is being timid, misconstruing people's posts (such as Chezinu and syllogism) and not actually doing anything.
Has LSB tried to scumhunt? Has he put up a convincing defense of himself? Has he provided useful things to town discussion other than simply claiming he has done so?
Since the answers to all of those questions are no, I want him to die.
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On December 22 2011 08:32 Palmar wrote:
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.
Whenever people revert to using real life excuses for not contributing I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt to prove themselves another day, reason is that I'd like to be extended the same opportunity (which I was, for example in early experimental haunted mafia), if it ever comes up in games.
I would have preferred he just straight up told us he didn't have time and sheeped his strongest townread instead of throwing out that case, but I'm not sure GM would ever do that.
I won't directly oppose a lynch on him, if that's what you're asking, but I'd prefer lynching someone that is around to defend himself. Unless of course GM has the time to play now, in which case I'll stay up for an hour more to get a better read on him.
Did this work in PYP:I with chaoser?
Why the hell should we believe anything anyone says just because it's possibly a RL excuse?
Did it work for me in XLV when Dropbear claimed real life excuses for being replaced, so Curu+I thought he was more town?
Why are you using out-of-game things to defend GM when you accused L of using a non-game-relevant reason to vote you?
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One thing I've noticed about Palmar this game is that a few people have called him out on bad/scummy play but he has not actually been drawing much attention. So far, he's looked like his normal town to me, but this GM business is worrisome.
Check this out:
On December 22 2011 06:39 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2011 18:53 Palmar wrote:
Are you around for a bit syllo? I really need someone to talk to.
Yes I do agree that GM would be a pretty good lynch today. I tried to get him to explain why all he had to offer was policy lynches but he hasn't posted since. I don't think we should be lynching prplhz though, he's marginally more useful than most people in this thread.
Did you notice that BloodyC0bbler came into the thread and the one thing he focused on was the RNG idea, something that had been out of the discussion for a long while by then. I still believe it's a good idea if a town would roll with it from the start, but at the point his post is completely irrelevant to the discussion, to the point that this post is basically a huge pile of nothing. We know absolutely nothing about BC from that one post.
In addition I've had a problem with L's posting since the very beginning, I don't know if this was how you posted back when he was playing but in today's environment that's almost enough to just lynch him by default.
And finally, what do you think about WBG's case on LSB? Do you agree with me that it felt a bit forced, especially the part where he basically flat out accused LSB of being a SK?
Did anyone notice that aside from a post about rng, random accusations with no merit and posting random fluff posts talking generalities about things Palmar had provided nothing of any substance in any town way, including this post? Hell up to this post most of them were total spam posts. Has anyone noticed he made a few more fluff posts then followed it up on a case against GM for wanting to policy lynch a Hydra? Account sharers have proven to ruin games and have an advantage other players don't. Starting a game off before any information is gleaned by saying "lets off the hydras" is not a terrible post. Had he been actively pushing it and bullying people to do so maybe. He then makes a post to "further incriminate" gm then again attacks me based off my post I made saying that I only covered 3 points. One of those points is "vague" to only players who aren't seriously reading this thread, one point was on talking about something that was so obviously scummy and was something palmar said was pro town (its not) that I had to comment. Even if someone says something ages before you post, if it scummy you comment on it. People do not get a free pass on old comments. I then told him to stop making vague posts. He was doing so till that point and only started giving somewhat non shite posts after I called him out. So apparently 3 valid points. Now, I only respond to these posts as he was tossing shit my way for my play. Up until I called him out Palmar was playing like shite. However he is actively playing so I am inclined to let him continue posting to give us a better read on him. As for the game at hand as it is now. LSB should be hanged. Anyone go filter him. He hasn't really defended himself at all from any heat given, nor has he provided any real analysis on anyone. Near every post of his seems to be quoting people asking questions of clarification on shite rather than contributing in any meaningful manner. Near none of his posts say fuck all about himself and most of them are short as the "long ones" are only long due to quote usage. So until he comes out with anything substantial to keep him alive im voting him. ##vote lsb
BC suspects Palmar, but ultimately suspects LSB more and votes him. Still, suspicion of Palmar.
Chezinu: votes Palmar, but isn't viewed seriously (at least by me) because he had no reasoning for his vote. I asked him for one, but he hasn't been around and hasn't provided one.
Bum: same thing as Chezinu.
L: voting Palmar, albeit his vote reason is shit.
There are three things that are troubling me right now:
1. LSB has disappeared and he is drawing votes very easily. This makes me unsure of him being scum.
2. Palmar defends GM on game-irrelevant grounds, but attacks L with the accusation that L is using game-irrelevant reasons to vote him.
3. At least four other people right now suspect Palmar, but he has received no real attention all game. We so far have just been saying "oh he looks like his normal town," which is certainly true, but isn't conclusive of his alignment. With a lack of pressure, if Palmar is scum he could do anything he wants.
sandro, what do you think of Palmar in light of what he said about GM? Same question to anyone else who is willing to contribute to town discussion.
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Palmar is there a reason you have been ignoring me for the last page but been responding to VE?
You're beginning to cause me to suspect you. And you were pretty townie to me up till very recently.
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yeah, while I think GM is probably scum too I don't think we should get off LSB. A lot of people have said GM is scum. I really doubt all of them are wrong, but we realistically can't afford to try to lynch GM so little time left in the day.
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On December 22 2011 09:16 SamuelLJackson wrote:
Really I feel like giving GM another day, he is acting too weak and I think as scum he would be able to get something together quickly just to get us off him. The feeling I get from his posting right now is that he can't really come up with something useful and doesn't want to give us something random that might hurt the town just to get off the hook.
Palmar seems okayish to me, the only thing that is bothering me a bit is that he is focusing too much on arguing with people for no real benefit.
Right now I feel the best move is to go ahead and lynch LSB, because any quick bandwagons we can come up with this late have very little chance of actually hitting scum.
this sandro?
I agree with this post almost in entirety; VE, this is essentially my opinion about LSB/GM right now.
Basically, while I'm not 100% comfortable with lynching LSB right now, there is nothing better to do but to carry out the lynch, since a GM lynch would be arguably shakier and there is not much time left to actually build voting support for it.
What troubles me is that there are many players who so far have not yet voted, or who voted someone earlier in the game but haven't changed yet.
Examples include prpl, bum, and Chezinu, just off what I remember. Prpl especially has done nothing all game, he even "RNGed" you, VE.
Upon rereading the thread I keep having second thoughts, but I might just be paranoid.
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On December 22 2011 09:42 VisceraEyes wrote:Yeah, it's buyer's remorse. Okay guys, let it be known that I'm compromising and my preferred lynch is GM at this point. ##Unvote: GMarshal##Vote: LSBI hope you're wrong about this WBG, because I find myself also wary of chicanery during the building of this wagon. And let it be known that even with my vote, we're like around 35% short of what we actually need to lynch. Basically, I'm ashamed of the activity of this town. For shame, vets.
wait, you hope I'm wrong about LSB being scum?
good god that's a terrible thing to say
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Let it be known that Foolishness and Sheth have not voted yet.
Also bum doesn't appear on the voting list from what I can tell, but I think he voted. Wrong format, perhaps.
Foolishness, Sheth, any explanation for your lack of vote so far? Late votes and vote reasons make it difficult for town to read you.
Foolishness, you of all people should know this.
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EPT
