TL Mafia XLVIII

On December 04 2011 22:07 Radfield wrote:



Of course not

I don't expect you to think I am town based on me saying so. I expect you to watch my play and gradually exclude me from being scum based on merit.

On December 05 2011 02:00 prplhz wrote:
@redFF

What motivation could there be for a townie to propose a no-lynch this early on day1 in a closed setup? Do you think TruthBringer is bad enough not to be able to figure this out himself?

Why do you think Palmar looks kinda scummy right now?

On December 04 2011 19:38 Palmar wrote:
Sup.

If we assume the hosts went with the most obvious way of balancing the game, two people out of this list are scum:

Radfield
Palmar
Jackal
sandroba
syllogism
redFF

However I would never agree with lynching based on how we perceive the hosts balance games. They could just as well have randomized it or used some other method to balance it.

What I'm more interested in is that 6/25 seems like an oddly high number of mafia for a normal setup. Do you think this is offset by lower mafia KP or multiple town power roles?

In addition, how would you feel about randomly lynching on day 1. I mean completely random, we just have some kinda rng generator choose our lynch for the day.

On December 04 2011 22:42 Palmar wrote:


Annoying may not be the word you use, but just think about our last game as town together where I was running for mayor. Your approach towards me is not the same.

On December 05 2011 02:51 Palmar wrote:
I'm out for the night

redFF's case is terrible.

VisceraEyes's agreement is a proof it's terrible.

I'll explain why tomorrow, don't have time now.

On December 04 2011 23:09 Palmar wrote:
Establishing your innocence is the first priority over anything else.

If you scumhunt, you might catch scum

If you establish your innocence you won't be lynched. If all townies won't be lynched, then the game has been solved. So yes, that should be syllos and everyone else's main concern.

On December 05 2011 02:56 Corrupt wrote:
Wow~
Some sick investigations going on! I think I'm getting paranoid already.. yet it's my first game. (and first post)
This is not going to be easy... so many suspicious people already.

On December 05 2011 03:05 Zephirdd wrote:


Tell us who is suspicious. Even if you want to say "I just think he is suspicious". It's not bad to be transparent, and don't be afraid to make mistakes and even turn back on your own word, as long as you make sense.

Unless of course you are scum, only scum is afraid of mistakes.


This post is the perfect example of a clueless scum post.

On December 05 2011 01:38 annul wrote:
"Just want to sit around and wait for power roles to do our job"

whoaaaaaaaaaa what

On December 05 2011 06:17 vaderseven wrote:
A no Lynch is awful for the reasons stated AND because it makes reading who voted who and why type info null.

We need everyone to vote and explain every reason they have for their vote because this the one thing Mafai have to lie about everyday. Even bussing is a lie in a sense.

Voting no Lynch is voting to hide relationships, motives, and information.

We are not even discussing nolynch until much later on in the game. It is the worst thing we can do day 1 because it gives us no information and mafia free kills. end of discussion.

On December 05 2011 06:20 Zephirdd wrote:


I don't like his answers at all. It's like he only answers exactly what he was asked for, and then finds a reason to lurk away(his last post exactly). If we are pushing for a day 1 lynch and there is no better target, I'd say we should lynch him. He is either bad newbie scum, or really really really bad newbie town. I'm inclined to the former.

And for the record, I'd have voted him right after his first answer if you hadn't convinced me to vote on him beforehand. It's just that I don't feel very comfortable to do that, but it's not like it was a really big deal anyway.

Windows 60% done and then I can read the thread.

On December 05 2011 06:26 Zephirdd wrote:


As I said, I don't like to vote before at least an answer. Many people did that on Steamship Liquidia, and even as scum that bothered me, even having an argument with chaoser and almost getting caught over that. But I guess it's fine when it is a deadline-style lynch instead of a hammer-style lynch game.

On December 05 2011 08:09 Radfield wrote:
Redff is being aggressive, and I like it.

On December 05 2011 13:11 Soap wrote:
I don't get day start, no one did nothing and we have nothing to analyze. I'm rnging.

##Vote Drazerk

On December 05 2011 13:26 Refallen wrote:
Yeah uh, let's not vote people for no reason

On November 26 2011 10:44 Soap wrote:
Ugh, there's so little information and scum are free to bury any tell under piles of nonsense and fingerpointing, as I'm sure it's being done. This will be most valuable in retrospective and I feel town should simulate a close vote to entice mafia to root for their candidate(s), but Palmer flew away in the popularity contest. So I'm protest voting for sinani206.

On December 05 2011 14:30 Refallen wrote:
I haven't been "jumping on easy votes" at all, I didn't agree with Palmar/Corrupt and said so, and I also laid out my reasoning why I thought Soap was scum. Obviously, I wasn't aware of prior metagame history which makes me think that he isn't so scummy anymore.

On December 05 2011 13:26 Refallen wrote:
Yeah uh, let's not vote people for no reason

On December 05 2011 21:51 Corrupt wrote:

Already wrote about that post in the previous page. I'm curious why you keep making a big deal out of it.
I answered both of your questions and you claim I ignored you? I listed 2 people, not 1.
You convinced Zephirdd to vote against me based on.. let's say.. nothing.
Now all of a sudden you suspend your case on Palmar, unvote and go for me? Sounds like a plan.

On December 05 2011 23:54 hyshes wrote:


Nice way to create a base to try to lynch those guys on day 2..



Anyway, I'm sorry for my current inactivity. It's my birthday and there was a supriseparty yesterday. Today i have dinner with friends so won't be posting much either. I thought i would only lose 1 night due to my birthday (tonight) but a supriseparty made that 2. I read through the thread and have a question. The palmar case seems to be a gathering of little things to me, could someone (preferable one of the voters) explain the case to me?

On December 06 2011 00:14 Mattchew wrote:
Syllogism - This game

Last Game (Town)

Also is a ton more activity and aggressiveness out of Syllogism this game. Scummy

On December 06 2011 00:17 prplhz wrote:
I think TruthBringer and vaderseven are best lynch candidates for today. I will vote TruthBringer over vaderseven because I think he's more likely to flip scum. I don't like lynching Zephirdd or Corrupt.

I think Palmar has been uncharacteristically useless so far but I wouldn't consider him for day1 lynch. sandroba and syllogism are basically confirmed to me and I think that Radfield is looking good too.

@supersoft What do you think about my case on TruthBringer? You commented on one case on TruthBringer but not the other.

On December 06 2011 00:33 Mattchew wrote:

Its not a direct contradiction.. just "feels" different.

Also,
Prplhz, Draz, and redFF were all mafia in the last game and are playing completely different this time around. So far they all come off as town to me.

On December 06 2011 00:34 vaderseven wrote:
@corrupt

By posting style I mean that I have played with people that post short 1-2 liners and then don't scum hunt while voting in a randomish fashion. I was hoping you would vote and put down some real reasons if pressured. At least you joined the conversation.

##unvote

I was waiting for Palmer to post his defense before I pointed out the fallacy of the case (his list was an answer to a question) and I like his defense. I hate his current vote.

Redff-

So your case on Palmer is defunct and was based on a missreading of things. You are now voting corrupt in what I would say was the first true bandwagon vote of the game.

I think you are acting scummy with this set of actions.


About me-

I don't really get the case on me. If someone would spell it out ill reply to it.

Let the day of posting via phone begin (aka good morning thread).

Oh and ##vote redff

On December 06 2011 00:40 vaderseven wrote:
Did draz explain his bandwagon corrupt vote I see in the voting thread?

On December 05 2011 19:28 Palmar wrote:


I know you know how syllogism and I play with each other. If I want him lynched people are going to notice. And not to mention, I have no interest in lynching syllogism day 1 as scum or town, I know he can be lazy as either alignment, and his scumplay isn't particularly scary so far, while his town play is some of the best on TL.

So yeah, this statement doesn't hold any value, your case is irrelevant. Please pull head out of ass.

On December 06 2011 00:47 Mattchew wrote:


in this game he is supporting a veteran naming "zodiac list" where as last game he was against acting on veterans and it seems like his stance on pointing out veterans to new players has changed.

On December 05 2011 14:20 redFF wrote:
haha
he made this post


on page 68 of xlvii, and he was town.

On December 06 2011 02:00 vaderseven wrote:
I assume a fake day action gets you modkilled so yes I'm srs.

I think soap wasn't going to add anything and the Meta on him is weak cuz there isn't thing townhouse about his play last game except his flip.

I think his play last game was a fine motivation for choosing him.

On December 06 2011 02:00 vaderseven wrote:
I assume a fake day action gets you modkilled so yes I'm srs.

I think soap wasn't going to add anything and the Meta on him is weak cuz there isn't thing townhouse about his play last game except his flip.

I think his play last game was a fine motivation for choosing him.

On December 06 2011 02:03 Palmar wrote:
I think the only reasonable way to proceed is to lynch redFF.

On December 06 2011 01:47 supersoft wrote:
no he doesnt. now shoot someone. if you hit scum, you live another day.

On December 06 2011 01:53 supersoft wrote:
lol why soap? :-(

MVP right now... i highly doubt he's scum.

On December 06 2011 04:29 vaderseven wrote:


That's retarded. Lieing to see if someone is lieing doesn't help to clarify anything.

On December 06 2011 06:34 Palmar wrote:


Better than lynching townies (refer to cosmic horror where I forced a no-lynch to save a townie).

On December 06 2011 09:07 syllogism wrote:
It's not rare for town to have a role like that and in a setup with this scum ratio, it makes sense. The fact it is anonymous is slightly scummier, but claiming the role as scum makes little sense except as a gambit.

On December 06 2011 10:07 Erandorr wrote:


Yeah that was smart. Still read it tho and tell me what you think about it for the next day.

On December 06 2011 10:45 Radfield wrote:
Red do you really think Palmar is scum?

What happened to this:



Also:




At this point you surely recognize Palmar is not getting 13 votes today. Hier, with your switch, almost certainly will.

On December 06 2011 10:42 Risen wrote:


Then what's the point of meta at all? Oh he's acting how he did that one time, he must be town. He's acting like he did that one time, makes him more scummy imo. Seems like using meta at all is just WIFOM b/c the person in question has to know he's being looked at. So that means we should just build a case against him based on what he's done in this thread.

On December 06 2011 22:38 Corrupt wrote:



I am with you on this one. There's something fishy about him and lately with all the non-productive one-liners he posts,
I'm starting to have a stronger feeling on him.
Okey so, in the start he did some scumhunting, made a case on Palmar and proved to be very agressive in his search for information. I read this as an attempt of establishing himself as a Green player (which I think he succeeded to do).
Then what he does is switching his vote from Palmar (his original case) to me.



After I ask for his argument, he just ignores me with this line:
<2 people is not "so many">
And never sayis anything in addition to the subject.
Okey, good, but later.. This happens:



He just goes:


..What?

On December 06 2011 23:23 vaderseven wrote:
Ya the fact that I have buyer's remorse over my choice of target makes me start to agree at least a bit that my action was used in haste.

On December 06 2011 09:47 redFF wrote:

it is rare, give me some normal games which have had this type of role

On December 07 2011 01:35 syllogism wrote:
There is a fine line between normal and themed games. Double voter is a standard role and from what I have seen more often town than not. The fact the vote is anonymous is just makes it a variation of it. Do you think the fact whether Flordidian is a town role or not has any relevance as to whether the came is considered themed or not? The answer is no.

I assume you don't believe drazerk's claim at all then either, because that most certainly is not a normal role.

On December 07 2011 04:27 Lanaia wrote:
Can't we all just listen to him?
+ Show Spoiler +

Christ, red, talk more than one line per post. I know you do this all the goddamn time but it's annoying as all hell. I mean, it's more than just red but he's doing it the most from what I can see. A post consisting entirely of "LOL" and a quote is not something that is productive nor is it helpful to the game in any way, shape, or form. Of course, if you fuck up something in your post, I don't blame you for an EBWOP.


And a question...
Is posting your views at night really all that good for town? I mean, it kind of just paints targets (or anti-targets) everywhere, doesn't it?
At daybreak I'll reread the thread and post my scumreads. I won't be active much during the night today because I have a huge accounting project I need to get done.

On December 07 2011 10:43 Zephirdd wrote:


Still on Radfield, I feel that way too but the thing is: if he isn't scum, he is doing a great job. If he is scum, he is playing really well. Should we come to that, Radfield should be our lowest priority in anything.

redFF gives me an odd feeling. He is acting retarded, as if he was trying to be so annoying that people end up ignoring him(see Serejai on XLVII). Any and every all-caps post from him were retarded, and he seems lazy when writing. However, his last response is at very least decent. I'm completely null on him.

On December 07 2011 10:43 VisceraEyes wrote:


All right! Jeez, if I'm gonna have to drag every little thing out of you, just let me know.

So is it fair to assume that at the time, your suspicion of Palmar was still 'there'..as in, you were still AS suspicious of him as you were when you placed your vote on him?

On December 07 2011 11:27 Zephirdd wrote:


retarded posts =/= retarded person. This post I'm quoting is an example of that.

Also, what is the fucking point of double-posting like you do. You can use Ctrl+C/Ctrl+V and browser tabs to consolidate your posts on a single one, you don't need to hit the Post button everytime you want to make a paragraph. This creates a false feeling of contribution when in fact you aren't doing anything.

Shape up please.

(and with that I'm off to bed)

On December 07 2011 13:49 vaderseven wrote:
Does it mean anything that only one of the two players that died had flavor/story behind the death? Does that indicate a non scum kill?

@VisceraEyes I appreciate the effort but Palmar isn't getting lynched today and there are 5 other scum out there for you to catch right? Focus on somebody else.

You should know better than this redFF.

On December 08 2011 01:39 Mattchew wrote:
I am slowly becoming more and more ok with lynching Palmar, and if he flips red following with the lynching V7.

Red and Eran still waiting on the roles you claim to be blocked from doing... One of them could be mafia and had their KP blocked

On December 08 2011 05:37 Mattchew wrote:
I am keeping my ##vote redFF because I have yet to see a case against someone I truly believe in. If someone can start a movement towards erandorr with a little more of a case then I can be swayed that way.

On December 04 2011 22:42 Palmar wrote:


Annoying may not be the word you use, but just think about our last game as town together where I was running for mayor. Your approach towards me is not the same.

In addition, how would you feel about randomly lynching on day 1. I mean completely random, we just have some kinda rng generator choose our lynch for the day.

In the last 7 games I have played as town, I have successfully pushed for mafia lynch on day 1

On December 06 2011 01:02 Palmar wrote:


ok

I'm a dayvig.

Post your notes, every single one, unedited in the next 1 hour or I kill you.

On December 06 2011 01:42 Palmar wrote:
Ok awesome. Now you have to shoot someone. May I suggest you kill Drazerk?

I'm not scum, just look at the people who are on my wagon, only newbies and bad people. Not a single one out of the people that actually try to play mafia with any kind of brain activity are trying to get me killed.

On December 06 2011 06:33 Palmar wrote:


That's because it's logical.

Do you know why people like Radfield, Jackal, Syllo, Sandroba, redFF are the people I listed as good when the game started?

It's because they're capable of reading a situation like this and understanding what the hell is going on.

On December 06 2011 08:49 Palmar wrote:
##Vote Hier

Based on a few things I'd like to vote Hier.

I think voting for syllogism without good reasons early in the game makes no sense. Especially after Hier should've learned that he cannot assume that his logic is solid after XLVII. In addition, I feel the tone/direction of the case is different. His case against me in XLVII looked like it was reasonably genuine, just using naive reasoning. This case on the other hand looks like it's much more forced with a lot less content behind it.

Just read it yourselves, here is his case this game:

And here is his case from XLVII: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12474384

Here's his XLVII filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285690&user=55311&user=55311

Notice that a right after posting the initial case against me, he's around, willing to argue his ideas, keeps pushing it, because he genuinely thinks that this is the correct way to move forward.

However, he didn't even post again after presenting his case against syllogism this game. Never mind actually trying to make something out of that case. I can't help but feel Hier has no actual intention of getting syllogism lynched and is simply content with not being called out.

My vote, and the extra vote, are going on hier

##Unvote
##Vote Hier

On December 06 2011 10:21 Palmar wrote:


I'm town, you're terrible at mafia.

By the way, I need to sleep it's 1am at my time.

If I get lynched. Everyone on this wagon should take a good long hard look at their play, because there is a reason all the players who are commonly considered good have stayed the hell away from my lynch. I know my play hasn't been very productive in this game, I wanted to have a laid back/fun game after the massive pain in the ass that was XLVII. I wanted to play casually and troll around a bit, so I was happy when I got town with a fairly non-important role.

That doesn't change the fact that that nothing about my play has been scummy. Anyone saying that is simply incorrect, a fact that will be proven by my lynch. I want that to sink in. If I do get lynched, you guys are taking active stance against some of the best players TL has to offer, and have the audacity to dare think you're right.

You obviously aren't, but feel free to fail before you believe me. There is no excuse for voting me at this time. You will not be able to say "But Palmar was playing badly", because that doesn't make me scum. Bad != scum. And you will not be able to say that we had no better lynch, because a no-lynch is preferable to killing townies.

Remember that, when/if I flip. This may be the most polarizing lynch I've ever seen in mafia, seperating good players from bad players. I am fully aware I made myself a target. Does that make me mafia? Hell no.

There are only two reasons to be on my wagon when I flip.

a) You're incredibly bad
b) You're scum


Good night.

On December 08 2011 06:44 Mattchew wrote:


once again.. people assuming scum based off accusations on themselves.

@VisceraEyes I appreciate the effort but Palmar isn't getting lynched today and there are 5 other scum out there for you to catch right? Focus on somebody else.

On December 08 2011 07:45 prplhz wrote:
@redFF

He is not getting lynched because he is not scum. How the hell is that even supposed to be a scumslip? Do you think that VisceraEyes is doing any good with his tunneling, or do you think that his opinion becomes tainted by the fact that he can't stop obsessing about Palmar? Do you think it is easy to read VisceraEyes when he is tunneling as hard as I have ever seen anybody tunnel? What do you think about sandroba saying that you're probably town, you just can't form a coherent thought this game? What do you think about Mattchew?

On December 08 2011 19:40 TruthBringer wrote:
##unvote Palmar
I am unvoting Palmar not because his play seems very townie to me, but because as people have pointed out, his role in the hands of the mafia would further unbalance the game. (Access to 7/26 votes at start.) Also, I really feel that his anonymous vote ability would have done a lot more harm to the town if he had kept it anonymous. People would have spent time reading into it, trying to figure out who it was, etc.

One of the nice things about believing Palmar to be mafia was that there was a cascade effect to find the other mafia, certain people having helped him when he was in trouble. I still do feel like lynching him and seeing his flip would provide some clarity about other people's alignments.

I like the case against Erandorr, but what I don't like about lynching Erandorr is that I don't feel like lynching him provides us with much more information. He hasn't really been a hot topic, like Palmar has so we just won't get as much information from lynching him as we would from Palmar.

Nonetheless, Palmar's Floridian role and his willingness to remove the anonymity make me think he is town and therefore, I will

##vote Erandorr

On December 08 2011 23:55 Mattchew wrote:
Palmar, would you go Lynch for Lynch with Annul. If he flips town you get lynched next?

On December 09 2011 10:36 Toadesstern wrote:

I think redFF is a useless townie

On December 09 2011 12:09 vaderseven wrote:
##unvote palmar
##vote redff

redff is teh best choice and I can accept a no lynch over him if desired but Palmar and annul are not good choices.

On December 09 2011 12:07 vaderseven wrote:


I just took this in.

Palmar's role sounds fucking town now.

##unvote

On December 09 2011 12:15 redFF wrote:

thats the traditional mafia wincon...

On December 09 2011 12:16 vaderseven wrote:
No its different.

Traditional is 50% of the players.

This specifically states control the vote.

On December 09 2011 12:18 vaderseven wrote:
Because the win condition specifically is about gaining control of the vote.

Honestly I feel BETTER about a no lynch but you are the one I feel best if we lynch.

First time I have ever said that EVER.

On December 09 2011 12:32 Mattchew wrote:
anyone on palmar looks really scummy v7 just gave concrete proof hes town

On December 09 2011 12:38 Mattchew wrote:
palmar and annul got cleared by v7

On December 09 2011 12:47 redFF wrote:
Please elaborate on how palmar is the "vote that keeps town in the game"
i don't understand that...
.

On December 09 2011 12:56 vaderseven wrote:
The thing is annul is so surely town that a vote for him is a vote for town.

:/

Redff has a posting style justs really isn't helpful at times (the one liners) and his defense seems very much a scummy defense.

On December 09 2011 12:59 bumatlarge wrote:


I think that is the fault of redff's nature, not your scum hunting ability. From what I've read, redff looks sincerely town, and his posts make my eyes hurt.

HAS PALMAR 100% PROVEN HE IS FLORIDIAN?

On December 06 2011 08:27 Mattchew wrote:
Im ##vote redFF his posts are all one liners and offer literally nothing. He originally voted Palmar then hoped off that when others starting voting him. He is now trying to start a corrupt bandwagon leading me to believe that palmar and corrupt are town as well.

On December 07 2011 02:36 Mattchew wrote:

Don't worry red only I am making a case for you... Corrupt is just jumping on because you wanted to vote for him

On December 07 2011 02:37 Mattchew wrote:

This would require more than one line so dont expect a response from red this game

On December 08 2011 05:37 Mattchew wrote:
I am keeping my ##vote redFF because I have yet to see a case against someone I truly believe in. If someone can start a movement towards erandorr with a little more of a case then I can be swayed that way.

On December 08 2011 06:44 Mattchew wrote:


once again.. people assuming scum based off accusations on themselves.

On December 09 2011 10:11 Mattchew wrote:
kill redFF

mason toad

On December 09 2011 11:25 Mattchew wrote:
rad... please look really really closely at redFF

On December 09 2011 12:26 Mattchew wrote:
redFF... annul and refallen and everyone else thats reading this... please look closely at him and his terrible defense of himself

On December 09 2011 12:31 Mattchew wrote:
BUMA LYNCH REDFF AND REF DO IT TOO

On December 09 2011 12:32 Mattchew wrote:
anyone on palmar looks really scummy v7 just gave concrete proof hes town

On December 09 2011 12:38 Mattchew wrote:
palmar and annul got cleared by v7

On December 06 2011 00:43 Mattchew wrote:


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285690&user=122881&currentpage=3

Red's last game where he is mafia. A ton of 1 liners that basically say nothing.

This game he has been hoping all over people aggressively and been contributing a lot more.

On December 06 2011 08:27 Mattchew wrote:
Im ##vote redFF his posts are all one liners and offer literally nothing. He originally voted Palmar then hoped off that when others starting voting him. He is now trying to start a corrupt bandwagon leading me to believe that palmar and corrupt are town as well.

Unless palmar's scumbuddy is a floridian as well

On December 10 2011 00:14 Mattchew wrote:
Palmar your arrogance is making the rest of us seem "ignorant"... How about for 24 hours you assume annul is town. Go after someone, anyone, else please, even if its me.

On December 10 2011 00:53 Mattchew wrote:


Red, I have accused you of being scummy. You are not my ONLY scum read that I speak of in this thread. You can quote me saying vote for red 40 times because they are all within a couple hours of the lynching deadline when I was trying to push for your lynching. I am not calling people names for not voting you I am simply trying to show people what I believe and hoping they come to the same conclusions. You have another 72 hours to convince me that you are not scum.

What do you, redFF, think of these players - this is not my scumlist or townlist its just a list of people being less discussed

Hyshes
Jackal
Sandroba
Truthbringer
Corrupt - now xsksc
Lanaia
Risen
Visceraeyes

On December 11 2011 01:39 Drazerk wrote:


I don't believe you

On December 12 2011 06:52 TruthBringer wrote:
Let's all vote redFF. It doesn't seem like anyone thinks he isn't scummy, whereas there is plenty of reasonable doubt on drazerk and annul.

On December 12 2011 13:09 Mattchew wrote:
I suck at this game.

fuck.