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The one thing that has bothered me about you and I have mentioned since you lied and got caught but I want to make clear:
When I claimed DAY VIG it was because Palmar was going to 'shoot me' or so he claimed. I was intrigued by his claim and basically asked him if he was a jack as I am. He didn't react to that at all and now I had a claim in the thread. I shot a worthless lurker that I thought might just be scum. I tried to cover my tracks of being a Jack but apperently that is a super common role on TL. I was hopping that it would be very easy to avoid mafia attention at night if they didn't know I had another possible set of actions to choose from.
When you claimed Jack it was when you were leading the vote count. You claimed it and then you and I played a bit of cat and mouse with me trying to get you to confirm your abilities to me. The other things that were going on in the game up till that point were all focused on me/palmar. Palmar trolling and then getting an over reaction out of me. Those items very much so flavored the timing of your claim.
I had set a pattern of it being acceptable for a player to shoot when under pressure and then be called "very towny" by alot of the players.
You tried to set up a copy of that exact situation. The problem is you were in no why trying to hide you other abilities. You went ahead and said I AM A JACK LIKE V7.
I felt for sure that you were a Jack at that point.
A more town move in your case would have been to establish a mason link with someone and use that to establish your alignment. You instead made sure that you got one more town player killed.
Going through my notes I see that the only reason I was fairly sure about your claim at the time was that you mentioned the ability to mason someone which I had not mentioned in the thread and when I mentioned the night option to cop someone and then asked you if you caught any issues with what I said you said there was something concerning night actions that wasn't correct. [hey palmar read that, thats why i defended him for so long]
That made me willing to overlook your stupidly anti-town way of going about your claim.
Now it is clear that you do not have the same abilities and that you were copying my claim pattern in an effort to confirm yourself to the same level as I had that you are towny. It is only now that your claim has fallen apart, as I knew it would if you were not telling the truth and I continued to ask about your role, that you are turning to attack me.
I was of great use to you and now that that has ended I must die right?
I should have listened to everyone that pointed out the scummyness of your play instead of trying to read into the rules/setup/roles. Now that you have proven that the only reason for you being alive, that of you having the same role as me, is in fact not true, I see you hanging.
I rest my case, time for bed!
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On December 14 2011 16:35 vaderseven wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 15:52 annul wrote:
the difference between BP and vet is everything, it is so crucial because it shows how i am town and you are mafia. to deflect AWAY from this is to play defense when for the first time in the game i can be totally confident in my ability to play offense on somebody else. there is zero chance whatsoever that i am wrong here. zero. It is everything? The difference or the ordering of the claims? I don't get how thats everything. Vet and Bulletproof are common roles that can be on either side of mafia/town. OHH I get it. It is everything meaning that it is the crucial thing that forced your hand and, as such, has to be a part of everything you say concerning you vs me from this point on.I said vet was option 1 and then you said thats wrong and posted your list. You are counterclaiming bulletproof to my vet and saying that vet is anti-town. I say that vet is a fine town ability (lol at saying it isn't, nice use of comparison to create an abstract negative view of something that in reality is a positive). I also say that your counterclaim of bulletproof to my vet is a smoke screen to take attention off the fact that you LIED and said you used option 1 on Refallen. I called you out on that and said option one is a vet and then voted for you. Funny how that difference is 'everything.' I think the lie that you got caught in is everything.
once AGAIN you are arguing against a straw man.
the difference is not in the ORDERING of the abilities. the difference is in the abilities themselves. we have the same abilities (medic, mason, day vig, and a self-defense power) -- except my "self-defense power" is different from yours in a subtle but critical way: mine stops ALL KP at night, yours stops 1 KP. this cant be an accident. therefore, there is no way you are not mafia. the only possible reason to split it up like this is to make me immune to a double stack by the mafia; something you do not need to worry about.
but it has gone so far past this point now; now my case rests primarily in the way you are defending my pressure. you have lied repeatedly, used countless logical fallacies of various types, you have attempted to misdirect the crux of the cases, and you have used the awesome "no u" defense. i am positive that the people not here who wake up and read this will see just how scummy your defenses have been, and realize it is you, not i, who is finally outed as the red jack.
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Okay, I'm good with this.
##Unvote: Drazerk
##Vote: vaderseven
You're right. I haven't voted annul yet. And I'm still not.
I've had a town read on annul all fucking game, and after this revelation, I'm fucking glad. I went back and looked over v7's posts. He's been very VERY careful indeed about going with the flow of town. He's been down with every 'town-decided' lynch that's gone down.
Annul's right, the BP vs Vet thing is huge. It's what's going to land us our first scum lynch today. Scum wouldn't need the extra protection the BP part role provides, so it only makes sense that scum would get Vet instead of BP.
vaderseven is flailing scum guys. His reaction to annul's pressure has me completely convinced.
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On December 14 2011 16:35 vaderseven wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 15:52 annul wrote:
the difference between BP and vet is everything, it is so crucial because it shows how i am town and you are mafia. to deflect AWAY from this is to play defense when for the first time in the game i can be totally confident in my ability to play offense on somebody else. there is zero chance whatsoever that i am wrong here. zero. It is everything? The difference or the ordering of the claims? I don't get how thats everything. Vet and Bulletproof are common roles that can be on either side of mafia/town. OHH I get it. It is everything meaning that it is the crucial thing that forced your hand and, as such, has to be a part of everything you say concerning you vs me from this point on.I said vet was option 1 and then you said thats wrong and posted your list. You are counterclaiming bulletproof to my vet and saying that vet is anti-town. I say that vet is a fine town ability (lol at saying it isn't, nice use of comparison to create an abstract negative view of something that in reality is a positive). I also say that your counterclaim of bulletproof to my vet is a smoke screen to take attention off the fact that you LIED and said you used option 1 on Refallen. I called you out on that and said option one is a vet and then voted for you. Funny how that difference is 'everything.' I think the lie that you got caught in is everything.
I'd argue that it isn't a lie, but instead a slip, if you feel it's a scumslip that's fine. I didn't vote annul because I didn't agree with Palmar's case against him, and I still don't. His flipping town was a surprise to me, I thought for sure he was scum. The only thing I've seen from annul that's been scummy has been his giving away of his dayvig and possibly that slip you're riding him for v7 (which is fine, at this point slips like that are all we have to go on).
The only other people I have scumreads on are Mattchew and hyshes at this point. Since no one is going to vote Mattchew, that leaves me with hyshes and annul. Honestly, I want to vote hyshes because at this point there's no reason for having posted THAT little. I haven't been as active as I wanted to be, but at least I'm trying to help. Hyshes isn't. Mattchew has been posting enough that he's been contributing (even if he's been "horrible" at it) and letting people get reads on him. Again, hyshes isn't.
So I'm left with looking and the only people I have a scumread on are voting annul. Then, the two people I've felt are town are voting hyshes (because of his horrible play, as opposed to what everyone else seems to be doing which is, omg Palmar)
I'm placing my vote on hyshes. If it comes down to lynch annul or don't lynch at all I will move my vote onto him. As it stands, he's getting lynched anyways.
##vote hyshes
Just as an afterthought. I was saying we shouldn't lynch Hier day 1 because we didn't have any posts to go off of and Hier was wayyyy too easy. Now it's day 3 and we have to lynch someone who's been playing scummy. Useless lurker is scummy at worst, horrible town at best. I'm leaning towards scum.
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On December 14 2011 16:50 annul wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 16:15 vaderseven wrote:Oh and ![[image loading]](http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/funny-pictures-bravo-bunny.jpg) You really had me scratching my head for a second with that 5 hours later you post the 2nd list of Jack abilities.I had to re-read both of our filters to make sure that I wasn't crazy and that I really had named that Vet was an ability before you named bulletproof. you named vet 5 hours AFTER i named bulletproof. not the other way around.
Look again bro!
On December 14 2011 04:00 vaderseven wrote:
Annul, you are a LIAR.
Option 1 on Refallen?
You choose to be a vet and target someone?
LYNCH.
##vote annul
GOD i hate being played.
On December 14 2011 05:31 annul wrote:
also, the first listed option altogether is NOT veteran.
On December 14 2011 06:41 annul wrote:
as you wish
ability 1: bulletproof
ability 2: day vig
ability 3: medic
ability 4: mason
"option 1" obviously refers to me using medic and not mason.
On December 14 2011 11:32 vaderseven wrote:
I am 100% sure that annul is a JOAT.
I am fairly sure that the JOAT is a town role.
Abilites:
Vet for one night
Med for one night
Mason for one day/night
day vigi
I just think having that on a scum team wouldn't make sense.
Stop trying to confuse the issue. This is a factual list of the ordering of posts.
also
On December 14 2011 07:12 Lanaia wrote:
Vader, can I ask, did you do anything last night? I understand if that is out of line.
I just noticed this.
It is 'out of line.'
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holy shit you need to solidify your theory of the case
it looks like your last post is going back to the whole "im not really a jack" theory. LOLOLOL.
i never lied once. you misinterpreted what "option 1" meant. aka, YOUR fault, not mine. you were SATISFIED with my explanation (because you typed "##unvote" in the thread AND because you said something like "oh, there were better ways of saying that...") and now you try to push that point once im on you? why not push it then? why unvote?
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I in fact named vet 2 hours and 41 minutes before you named bulletproof.
VEyes, I don't know what to say.
I am not trying to defend myself, should I? I am making a case on Annul after defending him for the entire game. Not the other way around.
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On December 14 2011 17:00 vaderseven wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 16:50 annul wrote:On December 14 2011 16:15 vaderseven wrote:Oh and You really had me scratching my head for a second with that 5 hours later you post the 2nd list of Jack abilities.I had to re-read both of our filters to make sure that I wasn't crazy and that I really had named that Vet was an ability before you named bulletproof. you named vet 5 hours AFTER i named bulletproof. not the other way around. Look again bro! Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 04:00 vaderseven wrote:
Annul, you are a LIAR.
Option 1 on Refallen?
You choose to be a vet and target someone?
LYNCH.
##vote annul
GOD i hate being played. Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 05:31 annul wrote:
also, the first listed option altogether is NOT veteran. Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 06:41 annul wrote:
as you wish
ability 1: bulletproof
ability 2: day vig
ability 3: medic
ability 4: mason
"option 1" obviously refers to me using medic and not mason. Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 11:32 vaderseven wrote:
I am 100% sure that annul is a JOAT.
I am fairly sure that the JOAT is a town role.
Abilites:
Vet for one night
Med for one night
Mason for one day/night
day vigi
I just think having that on a scum team wouldn't make sense. Stop trying to confuse the issue. This is a factual list of the ordering of posts.
saying "so you choose to be a vet and target someone" is not claiming vet. i make a direct claim of powers and five hours later you claim the same powers except youre a vet and im a BP. maybe in some extremely twisted sense of logic you "named" vet here, but it certainly is not a claim, since you have "named" powers that we have had in the past by subtle drops like this that we do not actually have.
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There's something that has been bothering me a lot since Hier was killed. It's his goodbye post.
On December 06 2011 14:45 Hier wrote:
It seems I have underestimated the amount of terrible town players in this game.
I don't lurk, ever. Nor do I plan to. Not as town, not as scum. If I don't post, it's because I can't.
Also, what kind of a pathetic death was that? I'll remember that, WBG.
gg
This isn't relevant now, and it might not be relevant at all. I just wanted to bring to light the part he bolded. Is there a role that makes it so people aren't allowed to post in the thread? Or did he just mean he couldn't post b/c he had real life issues?
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I have no idea what your role is, I really don't. I flip flop mentally from moment to moment on that. I know that you are not the same role as me though.
You didn't even bother to comment on the time line once I clarified it.
Care to do so?
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On December 14 2011 17:03 vaderseven wrote:
I am making a case on Annul after defending him for the entire game. Not the other way around.
the fact you saw it cool to type "##vote annul" without any other content before i managed to type a multiple paragraph case does not make you the aggressor. i think itll be pretty clear to those who read this debate who is the one failing at proper defense.
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On December 14 2011 17:05 vaderseven wrote:
I have no idea what your role is, I really don't. I flip flop mentally from moment to moment on that. I know that you are not the same role as me though.
You didn't even bother to comment on the time line once I clarified it.
Care to do so?
pretty sure ive responded to every post you have made so far.
pinpoint what specifically you want me to comment on; perhaps i have mistakenly missed something. but given how bad your case has been so far, it certainly was not intentional and i will pounce on any chance i get to disprove something of yours
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On December 14 2011 16:59 VisceraEyes wrote:
Okay, I'm good with this.
##Unvote: Drazerk
##Vote: vaderseven
You're right. I haven't voted annul yet. And I'm still not.
I've had a town read on annul all fucking game, and after this revelation, I'm fucking glad. I went back and looked over v7's posts. He's been very VERY careful indeed about going with the flow of town. He's been down with every 'town-decided' lynch that's gone down.
Annul's right, the BP vs Vet thing is huge. It's what's going to land us our first scum lynch today. Scum wouldn't need the extra protection the BP part role provides, so it only makes sense that scum would get Vet instead of BP.
vaderseven is flailing scum guys. His reaction to annul's pressure has me completely convinced.
You need to go reread some of that filter. I'll agree with you that v7 has been following town for the most part, but he shot a townie day 1... he kind of had to. Also, he went AGAINST the annul lynch yesterday, which the majority of people seemed to want until redFF (if you're reading this redFF next time you're town don't fuck around and try to rely on meta, meta is a stupid thing to rely on to vouch for your actions. I'm not saying it's useless, but to rely on it is bad)
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On December 14 2011 17:04 annul wrote:
saying "so you choose to be a vet and target someone" is not claiming vet. i make a direct claim of powers and five hours later you claim the same powers except youre a vet and im a BP. maybe in some extremely twisted sense of logic you "named" vet here, but it certainly is not a claim, since you have "named" powers that we have had in the past by subtle drops like this that we do not actually have.
I made it clear the one time I did that. I was trying to test your claim at that time shortly after you first made it.
I was 100% transparent on that.
Extremely twisted logic?
Annul, you are a LIAR.
Option 1 on Refallen?
You choose to be a vet and target someone?
LYNCH.
##vote annul
GOD i hate being played.
I clearly, CLEARLY, state that the first option is to become a vet. I make it clear that I am voting you at that point because vet isn't an aimable ability. It does takes some insane twisted logic to say that option 1 != 1st listed ability.
You are squirming so hard. You are trying to twist every point I am making.
For a bit there your case was based on me saying Vet 5 hours after you said bulletproof. Where did that go? Oh its insane logic not to understand what I cleared stated in that post I quoted (in this post). Makes sense coming from the person that says Option 1 = 3rd ability.
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On December 14 2011 17:05 annul wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 17:03 vaderseven wrote:
I am making a case on Annul after defending him for the entire game. Not the other way around. the fact you saw it cool to type "##vote annul" without any other content before i managed to type a multiple paragraph case does not make you the aggressor. i think itll be pretty clear to those who read this debate who is the one failing at proper defense.
You are a manipulative one about this whole me vs you thing aren't you?
I saw it cool to type that after you stated you used option 1, an unaimable option, on Refallen.
Annul, you are a LIAR.
Option 1 on Refallen?
You choose to be a vet and target someone?
LYNCH.
##vote annul
GOD i hate being played.
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On December 14 2011 06:54 vaderseven wrote:
wtf why did you set that up like that then man horrible.
##unvote
On December 14 2011 06:55 vaderseven wrote:
It was a horrible way to say things.
just for people to see what i am talking about. here you understood my explanation perfectly, and even though you misinterpreted it, you knew the specific precise piece of information i was trying to deliver to you. that was the goal: get you to understand the message without signaling to the reds what i had communicated. if this was SUCH A MASSIVE SCUMSLIP OMG then why the fuck do you unvote me here? why not immediately pounce on it, the way i immediately pounced on you when i learned you had vet and not BP?
also,
On December 14 2011 07:35 vaderseven wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 07:04 Mattchew wrote:
You couldn't say those 4 ablities? fuck I would have lynched Annul so much faster had I known that was it. All of those are town/scum neutral Thats the abilities I have in the correct order.
On December 14 2011 07:35 vaderseven wrote:
Thats the abilities I have in the correct order.
On December 14 2011 07:35 vaderseven wrote:
Thats the abilities I have in the correct order.
On December 14 2011 07:35 vaderseven wrote:
Thats the abilities I have in the correct order.
but of course this was a lie, wasnt it?
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On December 14 2011 17:10 vaderseven wrote:
For a bit there your case was based on me saying Vet 5 hours after you said bulletproof. Where did that go? Oh its insane logic not to understand what I cleared stated in that post I quoted (in this post). Makes sense coming from the person that says Option 1 = 3rd ability.
On December 14 2011 11:32 vaderseven wrote:
Abilites:
Vet for one night
Med for one night
Mason for one day/night
day vigi
whats that? your list of options is different from mine (which i couldnt have known before saying "option 1" anyway)? ohhhhhhh is that right
so, then, "OMG YOU CANT USE VET ON SOMEONE ELSE" line is irrelevant and distracting? ohhhhh okay
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Vaderseven is not a viable lynch at this point. A vote on him is a pure waste, and at this point we HAVE to lynch mafia. I don't care whether you think he's mafia at this point, we HAVE to get on people who have solid cases. The case against vader is, he shot a townie and his first ability is mafia not town. Wow.... what a case. That's sick.
Make a case against someone else, if we manage to avoid fucking up, we can talk about v7 day 4. I don't see anything that would lead to v7 as mafia, and the one thing that would have (Palmar flipping town) is gone.
Summary: V7 isn't going to get lynched today. Voting on him is pretty much a vote for nolynch because too many people think v7 is town (myself included). Make your case for someone else, this is useless.
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On December 14 2011 17:07 annul wrote:
pinpoint what specifically you want me to comment on
Comment on your choice to shoot and claim jack after what had happened with me on day 1.
Comment on your choice to say option 1 and then call everyone retarded that says 1 does not equal 3. Please take the time to specifically comment on as to why you choose to say this, if it was indeed not a lie, in the most insanely stupid way so that anyone that was checking their role vs your claimed actions would instantly feel as if you had lied.
Comment on to why me saying Vet and then you saying Bulletproof 2 hours and 41 minutes later is not important yet you posting a list that states bulletproof and then me posting a list that says vet 5 hours later is important. Keep in mine that the first of these two events happened first.
Comment on how you are turning this into a lynch Vader not me is in fact not a defensive measure when you are leading the vote count in a huge way.
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the case against vader BEGAN as that, but in the last couple hours it has morphed so far beyond that it is absurd.
the style of defense he employs is tragic. full of flaws, fallacies, and diversions. he goes off the deep end when i put any form of pressure on him that theres no way in hell hes not red.
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EPT
