EPTStudent Mafia (New/Newish players welcome) - Page 65
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flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
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BroodKingEXE
United States829 Posts
On December 15 2011 21:12 Blazinghand wrote: Btw, JB-- this has bothered me for some time. Did you actually miss the day post, or was that a gambit? EDIT: Also, BKEXE, no hard feelings. Your posting did improve towards the end there. I won't viciously go after you in the next game we have together  Yeah, I played pretty bad. Thanks though.  Sorry to anyone I name called in the game. It was uncalled for should not have done it. GG guys !!!! Brood  EXE | ||
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ey215
United States546 Posts
On December 15 2011 16:08 Velinath wrote: Well, for what it's worth, I guess I can roleclaim now. I was the DT - hence my inexplicable tunnelling on xtfftc last day (I investigated him). It wasn't the best play, I suppose, but it was the best I could do with what time I had the last couple of days. This was also the reason I was suddenly so very very confident that ey215 was town for the last two days. I felt the suspicions on him were somewhat well-founded, but him coming up town meant that I could at least try and give something that I could refer back to later in the thread. Meh. Well played, all. A little bit unsatisfying conclusion, but c'est la vie I suppose. For what it's worth when I saw you post on me early Day 3 I actually said out loud, "Don't say that!" I can't believe they didn't catch it. | ||
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ey215
United States546 Posts
I think you were wrong on the roleclaim call, here's why: We were at 5-1 if you roleclaim and Vel has 1 town that is still alive we win. Mafia kills you 4-1, Vel investigates someone else and either returns Scum of Town. We now have 5 people in the game, 1 DT, 2 investigated towns and 2 unknowns. Lynch one unknown Day 5 and if he flips town lynch the other Day 6. Game is over. If we don't have a doctor no one roleclaims and we're in the same place that we were before. There's a small risk there but I think a roleclaim at that point is +EV. | ||
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Grackaroni
United States9856 Posts
Thx for hosting Zona! | ||
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ey215
United States546 Posts
Did you like having a veteran in the newbie game? I think overall it was good. I would like to have seen it play out longer to really decide whether it was good or not. Would you prefer the veteran did not smurf? No, I think smurfing is the way to go. If the vet does not smurf they are a huge target and also it would potentially lead to too much following of the vet. Would you prefer giving both factions a veteran? I don't know, I think it might be a huge advantage to mafia but I'm really not sure. Palmar question for you: You said that we were very transparent and good as town, what made it that way? | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
Having palmar smurf into a game that is being coached without informing the coaches is extremely distasteful. It means that we are expected to treat every player in the game exactly the same in how we coach our respective students while missing a huge vital piece of information. When coaching the mafia it becomes extremely harder. This is because I have a higher chance of figuring out who the smurf is (I did accurately spot palmar fairly quickly). Depending on who that smurf is depends on how you deal with the player. Someone who is aggressive and analysis heavy is going to be far more likely to get shot than someone who is far more passive who focus' on plans or the like. As there was a townie vet smurfed into the group, rather than having a mafia coach, a member of the mafia should have been a smurfing vet. In this case the "coach" is actually their vet player who via their QT or pms just responds on their reg account while playing on the smurf. Overall the mafia did alot without my input and did fairly well for a first game so I am proud of their play. I just wish jay had thrown some of his posts by me to edit or the like during day 2 to prevent all dem scumslips. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
On December 16 2011 00:42 ey215 wrote: Can you guys please answer these questions: Did you like having a veteran in the newbie game? I think overall it was good. I would like to have seen it play out longer to really decide whether it was good or not. Would you prefer the veteran did not smurf? No, I think smurfing is the way to go. If the vet does not smurf they are a huge target and also it would potentially lead to too much following of the vet. Would you prefer giving both factions a veteran? I don't know, I think it might be a huge advantage to mafia but I'm really not sure. Palmar question for you: You said that we were very transparent and good as town, what made it that way? Honestly, most of the townies were active and constantly posting analysis. Because of this analysis basicallly every vote made sense. If someone voted oddly after everything they wrote on x player you could spot them as red. If they posted such neutral reads all game and seemed to just sheep it looked odd etc... Forcing people to contribute in this game was actually insanely solid play for town to figure out who was who. | ||
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BByte
Finland49 Posts
Unfortunately I couldn't make a bigger contribution in the game. I was caught by a perfect (RL) storm towards the end of Day 1. And while I may not agree with all that happened, I certainly don't blame anyone but myself for getting lynched. I was going for a strict no-fluff style, trying to say something meaningful in every post. Unfortunately my low post count + making a controversial case and not being around to defend it (or agree to drop it more likely) did me in. Good thing at least something good came out of my lynch (BH's initial read on jay). And day 1 was really active, so lynching someone who contributed rather little makes some sense. Of topics discussed in the observer QT (might as well continue here if needed?): I don't think I'll play in another game here too soon. At least I'd have to clear two weeks in my calendar first + make some time in the morning to comment on what the US players have posted. I also spent way too much time at work thinking about the game. Maybe I'll take a vacation to play some more mafia.  Thanks to syllogism for coaching! I got quite a few practical tips on how to actually play / what to do in various situations. The stickies are pretty good for learning about tactics and how to read people, but it'd be hard to get started in your first game based on just those. Having someone to discuss things with is definitely a great help. And thanks to Zona and Forumite for hosting! | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
I think it may have made sense for the coaches to know that there was a Vet player, even if it wouldn't make sense for the players to know, btw. Or at least for the mafia coach to know. In some hypothetical situation where BC hadn't noticed Palmar, perhaps because he didn't know to keep an eye open, the town would have won pretty handily, since each town player had a coach, whereas there was only 1 coach for the 2 Mafia. That's another thing-- and I know there's only so many coaches-- maybe 2 coaches for 3 mafia? It seems from reading the thread like BC wasn't always awake at the right times to help at crucial junctures, and he had partying and work and stuff to do. | ||
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BByte
Finland49 Posts
On December 15 2011 19:20 Palmar wrote: Did you like having a veteran in the newbie game? Would you prefer the veteran did not smurf? Would you prefer giving both factions a veteran? I think overall having a veteran in the game is a good idea. In this game it probably wasn't actually needed because there was a lot of quality discussion from the start, but that wasn't guaranteed pre-game. Making sure everything is balanced is of course something of a concern. I think smurfing is better than not. The newbies are not very likely to catch it too quickly, but the coaches might. I'm not entirely sure how the information would come into play then. The only problem I see with giving mafia a veteran is that if the veterans identify each other too easily then Day 1 could be spent just deciding on which one to lynch. Maybe it'd work a bit better in a larger game, with more vets thrown in? I don't think giving mafia a veteran is in itself a huge benefit compared to having a good scum player coach them. One thing I wasn't entirely sure of was how to handle discussing specific players with my coach. With coaches coaching more than one town player, they inherently have more information about the game than you do. How should you react to any mention of a specific player in the discussion, or for example advice regarding pushing a case against a player (who just might be another townie your coach is also helping)? Edit: Or am I wrong about there being multiple town players per coach? I think I at least read an earlier game where that was the case and assumed the same was true here. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
On December 16 2011 01:32 Blazinghand wrote: D: Sorry for lynching you first day BByte. I hope to see you in another game at some point. I think it may have made sense for the coaches to know that there was a Vet player, even if it wouldn't make sense for the players to know, btw. Or at least for the mafia coach to know. In some hypothetical situation where BC hadn't noticed Palmar, perhaps because he didn't know to keep an eye open, the town would have won pretty handily, since each town player had a coach, whereas there was only 1 coach for the 2 Mafia. That's another thing-- and I know there's only so many coaches-- maybe 2 coaches for 3 mafia? It seems from reading the thread like BC wasn't always awake at the right times to help at crucial junctures, and he had partying and work and stuff to do. jay was the only one in my time zone. He is also the one who provided me with the mafia QT. Had he not done so I would never have talked at all to xtc all game, and barely at all to blue. Jay was honestly the only one that pm'd me alot, but with the inclusion into the QT it was far easier to work via there as my work schedule / time zone issues were primarily the reason for never being on at the same time. I was usually dropping thoughts and coming back 12 hours later to maybe be able to answer things and vanish again and have a 12 hour difference between them and me. Was majorly balls. And each member of the town had a different coach? meanwhile I was coaching 3 people? the fucking balls? | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
On December 16 2011 01:42 syllogism wrote: No, I was coaching 3 townies at least ok, that makes me feel marginally better lol | ||
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Forumite
Sweden3280 Posts
On December 16 2011 01:43 BloodyC0bbler wrote: ok, that makes me feel marginally better lol I´m not following, are you saying it was too much to coach 3 players? | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On December 16 2011 02:22 Forumite wrote: I´m not following, are you saying it was too much to coach 3 players? wait wait waaaaait ok so I was totally thinking that each town coach had only one townie. heh. Well, that makes more sense. I mean, it sounds like manpower was fairly limited regarding coaching so my suggestion wasn't realistic anyways. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
On December 16 2011 02:22 Forumite wrote: I´m not following, are you saying it was too much to coach 3 players? BH implied every townie had a unique coach. Which led me to go "all townies had their own individual coach who only coached them?" In that situation it would be a little much to be responsible for 3 if everyone else was responsible for 1. Syllo already cleared that issue. The major issue for me was that I am in the US eastern time zone whereas blue and xtf were a 12 hour time difference with myself. Giving live feedback in that situation is very very difficult as it limits the ability to help a player deal with a situation as it arises. How can you direct a player on how to escape scrutiny if you are sleeping while they are active and the situation arises? I did what I could and in the qt you will notice xtf wanted to play with as little coaching as possible, and had jay never given me the QT I most likely would never have spoken to xtf, spoken only a few times to blue and with jay dying so early basically done nothing for the last few game days. Edit: I cannot fault players for not coming to me as it is ultimately their decision, however the ability to approach someone who's only online when you are not is kinda daunting. For next time with a setup like this, having a coach who has a similar time zone to the coached players will most likely be far more helpful for the mafia. I have no idea how harmful it is for town to have this similar situation as I have not coached towns in ages. | ||
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BroodKingEXE
United States829 Posts
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Forumite
Sweden3280 Posts
On December 16 2011 02:32 Blazinghand wrote: wait wait waaaaait ok so I was totally thinking that each town coach had only one townie. heh. Well, that makes more sense. I mean, it sounds like manpower was fairly limited regarding coaching so my suggestion wasn't realistic anyways. We went with 3 for Town, and 1 for Scum. That way we only need 4 coaches, and coaches only know the alignment of 3 players each, to prevent slips. | ||
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Forumite
Sweden3280 Posts
On December 16 2011 02:41 BloodyC0bbler wrote: The major issue for me was that I am in the US eastern time zone whereas blue and xtf were a 12 hour time difference with myself. Giving live feedback in that situation is very very difficult as it limits the ability to help a player deal with a situation as it arises. How can you direct a player on how to escape scrutiny if you are sleeping while they are active and the situation arises? I see what you mean. All roles were random, but if the scumteam is full of europeans, then an european coach is preferable. | ||
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