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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
or in my case: "wtf I wasn't here that lynch was terrible" I can't remember a day 1 lynch I liked. I don't think such a thing exists. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Started playing a couple days ago | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Deutsch exam in an hour, see you guys onthe other side! Hopefully by the time I'm back and exhausted there will be a mafia game to play/troll | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Ich bin Bratwurst? o_O | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Okay, enough chitter chatter, both on my part and all of yours! Let's get to hunting scum. WBG's Awesome Guide to Catching Scum! Step 1: Tell people who are being dumb to stop being dumb. It's distracting, damn it! These people, stop being thick. If you're town, you're hurting more than helping. If you continue to be dumb, I will vote you. Current Dumb List Palmar jaybrundage Mr. Wiggles Step 2: Elaborate! Palmar, as usual, you have started day 1 by being useless. It's quite funny that you call me unreadable and you say this: On November 15 2011 09:41 Palmar wrote: I'm dead serious. WBG is a good lynch. He's probably top 2-3 scum players in this game, but his town play is more middle of the road. He's hard to read because he's loud and arrogant without being right often enough to call him out on it when he's wrong. Top town players like Sandroba or myself can be figured out just based on if we're actually making the right calls or not. when this is quite a hypocritical fabrication. Firstly, I don't know if I should be insulted, or flattered. So...I'll go with indifference. My town play isn't amazingly horrible. I had a very bad performance in XLV and I probably will never live that down, but I have grown to despise PM games because of it and PYP. In PYP most of the scum I caught were caught in the thread and not through PMs. PMs just allowed them to escape off the hook. Recall that my day 1 scumreads in PYP were prpl and chaoser, both scum. They both survived day 1 because they used PMs to convince Rad and Mig that they were town. Prpl had the balls to claim DF and chaoser just guilt tripped us. My third read was sandro, also scum, again surviving because of PMs. My fourth was node, the person Mig and I told Radfield to ultimately lynch. Also scum. Fifth was Wiggles, who was shot by the town circle on n2. Also scum. I would like to think that my performance in non-PM games is better than it is in PM games. Granted, the sample size is tiny so take what you will. I recall you calling me bad repeatedly in PYP. Yet, you were the one shot by another townie, you were the one who tried shooting a townie on n1, and you were the one more detrimental to town that game. And you say that you are in the same league as sandro as town (rofl), a player who routinely rapes scumteams. I don't think so. By all means though, the problem we have right now is that none of this makes you anything other than completely null. You're self-admittedly horrible at scum, but it's anyone's guess what alignment you are right now. (as usual) jaybrundage, I don't know who you are, since you are new. However, as sandro said, this is not how you start a game of mafia. It'll get you lynched sooner than later. Please make an effort to read the thread and push your suspicions with proper logic and reasoning. Reading well is the most important part of this game. If you don't do that, then you will be a distraction to town because you won't know what's going on. Don't be afraid of posting, either. If you disappear randomly at inopportune moments we will be forced to be suspicious of you. On November 15 2011 10:11 jaybrundage wrote: Hm funny thing is that this is my first game so you obviously have the wrong person. And a no lynch would not be good from what i hear so why not? This, for example, is an example of bad logic. A no-lynch is only bad in the case where we have a good scummy target to kill and we benefit more from the information we get from the lynch on day 1 than anything else. In the case where we suspect all the vote candidates close to the deadline are actually townies, a no-lynch is very good because it will extend the game by 1 day. In fact, if we're unsure by tomorrow if we have a scum or not, no-lynching would be a great idea. However, right now that isn't the case, luckily. Of course, if you're scum, go fuck yourself, you're never gonna listen to this anyway. On November 16 2011 03:40 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Wow, this is going really slow. Here's something to get people talking: If you could pick one player (Not yourself) to make mayor (decides day 1 lynch + a couple night's worth of protection), who would it be and why? I would personally pick MZ. He's level headed, and a decent scum-hunter, so I don't think he'd do anything crazy with a day 1 lynch, and the protection would come in handy with letting him live until later when he could scum-hunt more effectively. Back to you guys. Mr. Wiggles, I don't believe I've ever seen you play town. Nonetheless, your first post is moronic. You're obviously not new, and I assume you have a functioning cerebral cortex. Thus, I think you should stop distracting town with a brainless question and an equally brainless answer to your own question. Next time, ask people what their favorite color is, because I'm sure that'll be more relevant to finding scum than what you posted. Step 3: Find things that don't make sense! + Show Spoiler [wallofquotes] + On November 15 2011 10:18 hiro protagonist wrote: No its not. Palmar is spot on about WBG's play. His overly aggressive play does not create good town atmosphere IMO. I would vote on him just on that alone. I would hope that the threat of a meta lynch would change his style. On November 15 2011 10:49 hiro protagonist wrote: Im not trolling On November 15 2011 17:11 hiro protagonist wrote: I know you where trolling  Im with you Erandorr, I would like to start this game off on the right foot. So lets lay down some frame work: Towns goal for day 1 should be to create a good town atmosphere. What is good town atmosphere you ask? Well there is the obvious stuff like dont lurk, post with content etc. But there is less obvious stuff like pointless arguing, spam, and aggressive tunneling that Have haunted TL towns in the past. Those things only further scum objectives. I will be taking a hard stance on anyone that derails positive discussion this game. Lets start off on the right foot! On November 15 2011 18:14 hiro protagonist wrote: How bought this, tell my why its bad to bring up lynch based on logic? How about discussing the merits of such a lynch? A side affect of "Palmars plan" stirs discussion, how is that bad? In your two post so far, you have only commented on other players post, without providing any content of you own. On November 16 2011 05:00 hiro protagonist wrote: I tend not to answer questions about me that can be answered by reading my post  Shout at him? I was just typing 0_o. He ask a question about something I did not do. I did not place a vote on WBG. I agree that It would be dumb to try and lynch someone that has not posted yet. But whats wrong about threatening to lynch someone if they play like they did in past games that have been anti town? I got nothing against bugs, but there is nothing wrong about encouraging him to change his meta a bit for the good of this game is there? hopefully that answers your question. Again, putting words in my mouth. I argued lynching Wbg if he plays like his usually overly aggressive/tunneling self. No where do I say we should blind lynch anyone. 0_o So, with that out of the way, I would like to here more from Meapak, as he is the only one that has not said something game relevant yet. Also jaybrundage, dont be shy, We know your new to the game so we wont hold it against you. tell us what you think of the other player so far ^_^ On November 16 2011 05:06 hiro protagonist wrote: How about the content in your posts before this one 0_0 ? who had more to say? On November 16 2011 05:35 hiro protagonist wrote: Did it attempt to set the tone for the day? Yes. Did it give my feelings on pointless arguing and tunneling? Yes. Does it give a framework for newer players? Yes. I know "game mechanics" type post dont reveal alinement, but that does not make them useless. Why are you trying to say otherwise? On November 16 2011 07:02 hiro protagonist wrote: No shit mafia want to look like town without actually trying to help. They also want a bad atmosphere to hide in. By saying my post is worthless, your saying that its cool to spam, argue, and tunnel, which mafia love. You are pushing pro mafia ideas. So my FoS still stands. On November 16 2011 07:17 hiro protagonist wrote: -__- ill be back in 24 hours On November 16 2011 07:56 hiro protagonist wrote: being loud does not mean your right Meapak. I stand behind everything I said. Just because you say its worthless does not make it so. How am I to start the game then. Troll like everyone else? Im being active and contributing while some players have said next to nothing. "OMG! someone is acting pro town! he must be scum trying to fit in!" This is your logic for lynching me. On November 16 2011 08:06 hiro protagonist wrote: I want to lynch Meapak. I would love to see more/any posts from Sandroba, Palmar, Wiggles, and WBG but there on my radar too. If you were not voting for me, who would you like to lynch? Oh oops... I guess that's every single post hiro has made since the game started. I guess I'll make it easier for everyone in the future and just post his entire fucking filter. Other things that don't make much sense: as previously mentioned, Wiggles's only post and Palmar's hypocrisy. This post by jay: On November 15 2011 08:02 jaybrundage wrote: Because we need to get lynch off and someone else voted for him Very terrible reason to vote someone. Step 4: Piece together the nonsense! Alright, this could be long, since hiro has basically done almost every scumslip imaginable in the span of like six hours. I've spoilered the following with my commentary. I duplicated the quotes from earlier since it's easier for me to keep my train of thought steady when I can see what originally tipped me off as weird. Open when you are ready. + Show Spoiler [hiroanalysis] + On November 15 2011 10:18 hiro protagonist wrote: No its not. Palmar is spot on about WBG's play. His overly aggressive play does not create good town atmosphere IMO. I would vote on him just on that alone. I would hope that the threat of a meta lynch would change his style. First post of the game. Completely agrees with Palmar when Palmar wasn't even correct. He doesn't even agree with Palmar on why I would make a good lynch. Palmar suggests that I'd make a good lynch on the simple fact that I am difficult to read and that I am a bigger threat to town as scum rather than a benefit as town. Hiro thinks I should be lynched because he doesn't like my aggressiveness. There's a huge difference here. Most telling is the fact that hiro agrees without actually knowing what my scum play looks like. Palmar's vote hinges primarily on the assumption that my scum play is good. In fact, you can even smell that hiro reacted in a way that suggests he already knows I'm town. Otherwise, why would he bring up my aggressiveness specifically when I am town on his own accord? On November 15 2011 10:49 hiro protagonist wrote: Im not trolling Shocking. On November 15 2011 17:11 hiro protagonist wrote: I know you where trolling Im with you Erandorr, I would like to start this game off on the right foot. So lets lay down some frame work: Towns goal for day 1 should be to create a good town atmosphere. What is good town atmosphere you ask? Well there is the obvious stuff like dont lurk, post with content etc. But there is less obvious stuff like pointless arguing, spam, and aggressive tunneling that Have haunted TL towns in the past. Those things only further scum objectives. I will be taking a hard stance on anyone that derails positive discussion this game. Lets start off on the right foot! He says that he's going to take a hard stance on anyone who derails positive discussion, and that good posting involves posts with content. The very post in which this is said has no content. Definition of hypocrisy. On November 15 2011 18:14 hiro protagonist wrote: How bought this, tell my why its bad to bring up lynch based on logic? How about discussing the merits of such a lynch? A side affect of "Palmars plan" stirs discussion, how is that bad? In your two post so far, you have only commented on other players post, without providing any content of you own. What's not so surprising here is that hiro doesn't understand what logic actually is. What's sad is that he thinks Palmar's vote reason was an example of good logic. Palmar's plan surely stirred discussion. And you're right hiro, it isn't bad, since you were outed by it. So thanks, Palmar. The funniest part of this post is the end. Hiro gets incredibly defensive on prpl and accuses prpl of making useless posts. Once again, hypocrisy. On November 16 2011 05:00 hiro protagonist wrote: I tend not to answer questions about me that can be answered by reading my post Shout at him? I was just typing 0_o. He ask a question about something I did not do. I did not place a vote on WBG. I agree that It would be dumb to try and lynch someone that has not posted yet. But whats wrong about threatening to lynch someone if they play like they did in past games that have been anti town? I got nothing against bugs, but there is nothing wrong about encouraging him to change his meta a bit for the good of this game is there? hopefully that answers your question. Okay, so first hiro says he doesn't answer questions about himself that can be read in his posts. Yet, he never actually explained why he was okay with pressuring me, but not okay with actually going one step further and being part of that pressure with a vote. Erandorr's question was perfectly valid, and very telling of hiro's alignment. Scum aren't willing to put their money where their mouth is; they tend to be cautious when cementing their thoughts with a vote. Let's keep this in mind, since it comes into play later. On November 16 2011 05:00 hiro protagonist wrote: Again, putting words in my mouth. I argued lynching Wbg if he plays like his usually overly aggressive/tunneling self. No where do I say we should blind lynch anyone. 0_o So, with that out of the way, I would like to here more from Meapak, as he is the only one that has not said something game relevant yet. Also jaybrundage, dont be shy, We know your new to the game so we wont hold it against you. tell us what you think of the other player so far ^_^ Let's also keep this in mind; note how hiro accuses sandro of putting words in his mouth. Remember that. Also what's weird is that he says he wants to hear more from Meapak, who apparently is the only one who has not said anything game relevant. Wtf? What happened to me? Did he just forget about me because Meapak became suspicious of him? On November 16 2011 05:06 hiro protagonist wrote: How about the content in your posts before this one 0_0 ? who had more to say? Hiro responds to the accusation that his posts are useless with a counter accusation. Let's keep this in mind too. On November 16 2011 05:35 hiro protagonist wrote: Did it attempt to set the tone for the day? Yes. Did it give my feelings on pointless arguing and tunneling? Yes. Does it give a framework for newer players? Yes. I know "game mechanics" type post dont reveal alinement, but that does not make them useless. Why are you trying to say otherwise? Okay, you can tell this post is total and utter bullshit just by the fact that he claims he was trying to set a framework for newer players. Newsflash: If anyone actually read the player list for this game, there is only ONE new player. Jaybrundage. Everyone else knows how to play mafia, and this cop out excuse is a total bunch of shit. Nice fail. On November 16 2011 07:02 hiro protagonist wrote: No shit mafia want to look like town without actually trying to help. They also want a bad atmosphere to hide in. By saying my post is worthless, your saying that its cool to spam, argue, and tunnel, which mafia love. You are pushing pro mafia ideas. So my FoS still stands. Alright, remember how I said to keep in mind that hiro accused sandro of putting words in his mouth? Here we see hiro putting words in Meapak's mouth. Once again, blatant hypocrite. Hiro's posts, by all standards, are completely worthless. The jump from Meapak calling hiro's post useless to Meapak encouraging spam, arguing, tunneling, and pro-mafia ideas in general is incredibly illogical. It's also completely dead wrong. On November 16 2011 07:17 hiro protagonist wrote: -__- ill be back in 24 hours Okay, good. On November 16 2011 07:56 hiro protagonist wrote: being loud does not mean your right Meapak. I stand behind everything I said. Just because you say its worthless does not make it so. How am I to start the game then. Troll like everyone else? Im being active and contributing while some players have said next to nothing. "OMG! someone is acting pro town! he must be scum trying to fit in!" This is your logic for lynching me. WAIT WTF I THOUGHT YOU LEFT At any rate, remember how hiro responded to Meapak's accusation that hiro's post was useless? Right, he accused Meapak of writing useless posts. Well, here he suggests that Meapak is throwing around baseless accusations about hiro's post quality. Well, wtf is hiro doing then, if not exactly that? Then he goes and shits himself when trying to make meapak look bad. He accuses meapak of trying to lynch a pro-town player. rofl. On November 16 2011 08:06 hiro protagonist wrote: I want to lynch Meapak. I would love to see more/any posts from Sandroba, Palmar, Wiggles, and WBG but there on my radar too. If you were not voting for me, who would you like to lynch? This is arguably the most telling post that hiro has made the entire game. He says he wants to lynch Meapak, but does not vote him. What kind of townie does that? What kind of townie is afraid to take attention, to take heat for leading a lynch? No townie. Step 5: Conclude! For now since I think hiro is almost certainly scum, let's kill him and then focus our efforts on finding that second guy. Right now there isn't much info, so it could probably be anyone, though if hiro is scum then meapak and prpl are almost definitely not. We need to watch Palmar/Wiggles carefully, IMO. Palmar very rarely posts clearly in the thread, regardless of alignment, though he tends to be lazy scum. He's aware of that, though, so even if he is scum we can't count on it being easy to catch him. I've never played town with wiggles (so if anyone can point me in the right direction on that, that'd be great) but he tends to slip by as scum, I've noticed. People will think he's scummy but then he just won't die, which is weird. For jaybrundage, there are two scum, so we can afford to give him the benefit of the noob doubt and let him live till tomorrow, if he doesn't shape up by then and we think he's scum then we kill him. Lynching a new player on day 1 probably won't lead us anywhere. Step 6: Vote! ##vote hiro protagonist | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On November 16 2011 10:38 Erandorr wrote: I would like to say something about that thing bugs just posted, but since there is a lot of nothing in there i will just focus on the analysis. I will put my thoughts in green I think hiro is looking pretty bad right now but the way WBG argues pissed me off so much that I had to write about it . The worst part is that its a post by post analysis looking to catch scum by slips and ignoring everything else thats going on. I almost have a feeling that he just filters people and then writes his analysis that way . First post of the game. Completely agrees with Palmar when Palmar wasn't even correct. He doesn't even agree with Palmar on why I would make a good lynch. Palmar suggests that I'd make a good lynch on the simple fact that I am difficult to read and that I am a bigger threat to town as scum rather than a benefit as town. Hiro thinks I should be lynched because he doesn't like my aggressiveness. There's a huge difference here. Most telling is the fact that hiro agrees without actually knowing what my scum play looks like. Palmar's vote hinges primarily on the assumption that my scum play is good. But Hiros point is not actually as bad as you make it sound. You are overly agressive and have destroyed games nearly by yourself (XLV comes to mind) Its not about your Scumplay for him it is about your play in general. In fact, you can even smell that hiro reacted in a way that suggests he already knows I'm town. Otherwise, why would he bring up my aggressiveness specifically when I am town on his own accord? because he is not talking about that... Shocking. shut up He says that he's going to take a hard stance on anyone who derails positive discussion, and that good posting involves posts with content. The very post in which this is said has no content. Definition of hypocrisy. This point is debatable. If you are really bad at this game (and hiro never proved differently) its actually possble that this post was made by a townie. That you missed the really scummy parts is kind of funny but I will get to that when I write about Hiro myself What's not so surprising here is that hiro doesn't understand what logic actually is. What's sad is that he thinks Palmar's vote reason was an example of good logic. Now let me ask you. If he actually thinks thats an example of good logic, doesnt that mean you are saying he is dumb. Does being dumb make him scum? Palmar's plan surely stirred discussion. And you're right hiro, it isn't bad, since you were outed by it. So thanks, Palmar. shut up The funniest part of this post is the end. Hiro gets incredibly defensive on prpl and accuses prpl of making useless posts. Once again, hypocrisy. I agree with that one a bit. Okay, so first hiro says he doesn't answer questions about himself that can be read in his posts. Yet, he never actually explained why he was okay with pressuring me, but not okay with actually going one step further and being part of that pressure with a vote. Erandorr's question was perfectly valid, and very telling of hiro's alignment. Scum aren't willing to put their money where their mouth is; they tend to be cautious when cementing their thoughts with a vote. Let's keep this in mind, since it comes into play later. yeah that part is true too Let's also keep this in mind; note how hiro accuses sandro of putting words in his mouth. Remember that. Also what's weird is that he says he wants to hear more from Meapak, who apparently is the only one who has not said anything game relevant. Wtf? What happened to me? Did he just forget about me because Meapak became suspicious of him? what is this retarded shit that you actually just wrote down there? If he was scum and you were town why would he want to ignore another lurker to force attention away from him? The only way this makes sense is if you are actually scum and want to bus your teammate or... he forgot you? Hiro responds to the accusation that his posts are useless with a counter accusation. Let's keep this in mind too. yup thats defensive Okay, you can tell this post is total and utter bullshit just by the fact that he claims he was trying to set a framework for newer players. Newsflash: If anyone actually read the player list for this game, there is only ONE new player. Jaybrundage. Everyone else knows how to play mafia, and this cop out excuse is a total bunch of shit. Nice fail. Thats one point he is adding to make his defence stronger. Hiro is not looking good but this is no way to do an analysis. Alright, remember how I said to keep in mind that hiro accused sandro of putting words in his mouth? Here we see hiro putting words in Meapak's mouth. Once again, blatant hypocrite. Hiro's posts, by all standards, are completely worthless. The jump from Meapak calling hiro's post useless to Meapak encouraging spam, arguing, tunneling, and pro-mafia ideas in general is incredibly illogical. It's also completely dead wrong. Its ultra defensive OMGUS. Scummy but not as harsh as you make it look Okay, good. Wait for it WAIT WTF I THOUGHT YOU LEFT shut up At any rate, remember how hiro responded to Meapak's accusation that hiro's post was useless? Right, he accused Meapak of writing useless posts. Well, here he suggests that Meapak is throwing around baseless accusations about hiro's post quality. Well, wtf is hiro doing then, if not exactly that? Then he goes and shits himself when trying to make meapak look bad. He accuses meapak of trying to lynch a pro-town player. rofl. OMGUS. Hiro is bad at mafia. And you start repeating yourself. Scummy as hell? yeap. Confirmed Scum? Nope. This is arguably the most telling post that hiro has made the entire game. He says he wants to lynch Meapak, but does not vote him. What kind of townie does that? What kind of townie is afraid to take attention, to take heat for leading a lynch? No townie. This pretty much sums it up perfectly. What kind of Mafia player would call not voting for someone you think is supsicius the biggest scumtell a player could make in that situation? WBG. Okay this was just a rant not designed to do anything but convince people not to listen to bugs too much My own analysis will be coming up tomorrow morning its 2:30 AM and I need to get some sleep. Also Sandro Wiggles and Palmar , you guys are actually good at this game so please start doing something of value, yes? Of course calling someone scum and then not voting them is a huge tell. It's a blatant behavioral contradiction. Hiro is pretty scummy as town, sure, but that doesn't excuse him from making scummy posts or doing scummy things. That's about all he's done this game. If you don't want to listen to me, fine, don't lynch hiro. The funniest part about this is that hiro supports pushing a lynch on me to supposedly "correct" my style of play when he doesn't see that he himself plays really bad as town. That's the only downside to lynching hiro; he plays so scummy as town that he might very well be town right now. This is one thing I highlighted in his posts but for some reason forgot to mention. (I highlighted the part where he says it'd be a great idea to pressure me, but didn't comment on it) You can turn almost everything he says back on himself. That's how bad it is. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On November 16 2011 10:38 Erandorr wrote: I would like to say something about that thing bugs just posted, but since there is a lot of nothing in there i will just focus on the analysis. I will put my thoughts in green I think hiro is looking pretty bad right now but the way WBG argues pissed me off so much that I had to write about it . The worst part is that its a post by post analysis looking to catch scum by slips and ignoring everything else thats going on. I almost have a feeling that he just filters people and then writes his analysis that way . First post of the game. Completely agrees with Palmar when Palmar wasn't even correct. He doesn't even agree with Palmar on why I would make a good lynch. Palmar suggests that I'd make a good lynch on the simple fact that I am difficult to read and that I am a bigger threat to town as scum rather than a benefit as town. Hiro thinks I should be lynched because he doesn't like my aggressiveness. There's a huge difference here. Most telling is the fact that hiro agrees without actually knowing what my scum play looks like. Palmar's vote hinges primarily on the assumption that my scum play is good. But Hiros point is not actually as bad as you make it sound. You are overly agressive and have destroyed games nearly by yourself (XLV comes to mind) Its not about your Scumplay for him it is about your play in general. In fact, you can even smell that hiro reacted in a way that suggests he already knows I'm town. Otherwise, why would he bring up my aggressiveness specifically when I am town on his own accord? because he is not talking about that... Shocking. shut up He says that he's going to take a hard stance on anyone who derails positive discussion, and that good posting involves posts with content. The very post in which this is said has no content. Definition of hypocrisy. This point is debatable. If you are really bad at this game (and hiro never proved differently) its actually possble that this post was made by a townie. That you missed the really scummy parts is kind of funny but I will get to that when I write about Hiro myself What's not so surprising here is that hiro doesn't understand what logic actually is. What's sad is that he thinks Palmar's vote reason was an example of good logic. Now let me ask you. If he actually thinks thats an example of good logic, doesnt that mean you are saying he is dumb. Does being dumb make him scum? Palmar's plan surely stirred discussion. And you're right hiro, it isn't bad, since you were outed by it. So thanks, Palmar. shut up The funniest part of this post is the end. Hiro gets incredibly defensive on prpl and accuses prpl of making useless posts. Once again, hypocrisy. I agree with that one a bit. Okay, so first hiro says he doesn't answer questions about himself that can be read in his posts. Yet, he never actually explained why he was okay with pressuring me, but not okay with actually going one step further and being part of that pressure with a vote. Erandorr's question was perfectly valid, and very telling of hiro's alignment. Scum aren't willing to put their money where their mouth is; they tend to be cautious when cementing their thoughts with a vote. Let's keep this in mind, since it comes into play later. yeah that part is true too Let's also keep this in mind; note how hiro accuses sandro of putting words in his mouth. Remember that. Also what's weird is that he says he wants to hear more from Meapak, who apparently is the only one who has not said anything game relevant. Wtf? What happened to me? Did he just forget about me because Meapak became suspicious of him? what is this retarded shit that you actually just wrote down there? If he was scum and you were town why would he want to ignore another lurker to force attention away from him? The only way this makes sense is if you are actually scum and want to bus your teammate or... he forgot you? Hiro responds to the accusation that his posts are useless with a counter accusation. Let's keep this in mind too. yup thats defensive Okay, you can tell this post is total and utter bullshit just by the fact that he claims he was trying to set a framework for newer players. Newsflash: If anyone actually read the player list for this game, there is only ONE new player. Jaybrundage. Everyone else knows how to play mafia, and this cop out excuse is a total bunch of shit. Nice fail. Thats one point he is adding to make his defence stronger. Hiro is not looking good but this is no way to do an analysis. Alright, remember how I said to keep in mind that hiro accused sandro of putting words in his mouth? Here we see hiro putting words in Meapak's mouth. Once again, blatant hypocrite. Hiro's posts, by all standards, are completely worthless. The jump from Meapak calling hiro's post useless to Meapak encouraging spam, arguing, tunneling, and pro-mafia ideas in general is incredibly illogical. It's also completely dead wrong. Its ultra defensive OMGUS. Scummy but not as harsh as you make it look Okay, good. Wait for it WAIT WTF I THOUGHT YOU LEFT shut up At any rate, remember how hiro responded to Meapak's accusation that hiro's post was useless? Right, he accused Meapak of writing useless posts. Well, here he suggests that Meapak is throwing around baseless accusations about hiro's post quality. Well, wtf is hiro doing then, if not exactly that? Then he goes and shits himself when trying to make meapak look bad. He accuses meapak of trying to lynch a pro-town player. rofl. OMGUS. Hiro is bad at mafia. And you start repeating yourself. Scummy as hell? yeap. Confirmed Scum? Nope. This is arguably the most telling post that hiro has made the entire game. He says he wants to lynch Meapak, but does not vote him. What kind of townie does that? What kind of townie is afraid to take attention, to take heat for leading a lynch? No townie. This pretty much sums it up perfectly. What kind of Mafia player would call not voting for someone you think is supsicius the biggest scumtell a player could make in that situation? WBG. Okay this was just a rant not designed to do anything but convince people not to listen to bugs too much My own analysis will be coming up tomorrow morning its 2:30 AM and I need to get some sleep. Also Sandro Wiggles and Palmar , you guys are actually good at this game so please start doing something of value, yes? also rofl Erandorr really... But Hiros point is not actually as bad as you make it sound. You are overly agressive and have destroyed games nearly by yourself (XLV comes to mind) Its not about your Scumplay for him it is about your play in general. My play is not the issue we're talking about here. You're leading yourself in a circle because you think this revolves around me. It doesn't, people just don't know how to deal with tunneling and aggression. And my point is that for Palmar, he was concerned that my scumplay is good and my townplay is meh-making me hard to read. Hiro pretty much just stopped short of calling me bad, which was not really what Palmar was saying. Although me saying that is probably going to invite Palmar in to call me bad (haha) because he is not talking about that... What is he talking about, if not my aggressiveness as town? rofl... Never once did hiro support pressuring me because I'm scum. I don't agree with that. You don't pressure people because you don't like how they play, unless it's actually really detrimental to town. Aggression isn't detrimental to town. Lurking, lying, and bad logic are, however. Take Palmar, for example. Is his tunneling bad for town? No, it's just most people don't know how to handle it, so they end up thinking he's scum. That's dumb and illogical. I thought so myself in XLIV and I was an idiot. This point is debatable. If you are really bad at this game (and hiro never proved differently) its actually possble that this post was made by a townie. That you missed the really scummy parts is kind of funny but I will get to that when I write about Hiro myself You're defending him cause he's bad. Lol. And no, I didn't miss anything. I wrote quite a bit, in going back and reading it I noticed I still had thoughts I hadn't written. In fact, if I mentioned more you'd probably attack me for it, since that seems to be the flavor of your post. Now let me ask you. If he actually thinks thats an example of good logic, doesnt that mean you are saying he is dumb. Does being dumb make him scum? I never said that. However, using bad logic to support a shitty vote is definitely pro-mafia, because that leads to an easy lynch. Being bad doesn't make someone mafia but pushing a mafia agenda does! Alignment doesn't affect skill level much usually (some exceptions obviously) so I don't imagine hiro would magically appear to be 10 times better than he really is if he was scum. As you say, skill level isn't an indicator of alignment, so saying he's bad therefore he's town is concluding something based on inconclusive evidence. Didn't you learn your lesson from PYP? sinani is bad, but he doesn't play any better when he's scum. Thats one point he is adding to make his defence stronger. Hiro is not looking good but this is no way to do an analysis. Aren't you the one who asked why hiro was being so ultra-defensive? Think about it, how can he be trying to "set up a framework for new players" when there really aren't any new players in this game? It really just sounds like a reason he made up after the fact, when someone called out the uselessness of his post. It's fabricated. It's a lie. He's making up things that aren't true to push attention off himself onto other people. 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On November 16 2011 12:28 hiro protagonist wrote: OK, here are my reads so far: 1.Palmar - null read, nothing to go on really. curious how he will play the last half of day 1. 2.Mr Wiggles- null read. His first post was obviously trying to draw out reactions. both scum and town would can do that so it sheds no alignment. His second post has his reads on everyone one that responded to him. He does not give his opinion on the current lynch target. 3.Wherebugsgo- Ill get to him last... 4.Meapak_Ziphh- leaning Red. Its not anything that he said, more its his overall style in the game so far. He jumps on easy targets AKA both my "generic post" and Wiggle's first post. He undercuts my statement of trying to start things on the right foot by saying its worthless, something that is clearly a mafia agenda IMO. Will be watching. 5.Erandorr- leaning town. Wants to lead town. Im all for it. 6.prplhz- null read. asks me alot of questions, and has done very little else. Could be scum wanting to make me more skittish (which he is btw) last post makes me feel more townie about him. 7.hiro protagonist- townie. says scummy things, but has the right intentions ^_^ 8.jaybrundage- Null His last post is considerably better than those before it. His post are hard to read. Needs to be more clear. Needs to step up. 9.Sandroba- nothing. And now for my vote. and I will place it on WBG. here is why: -Bugs still has the same arrogant aggressive Behavior as every other game hes played. He is wrong most of the time as town, and It has cost the town the game on more than one occasion. -I dont think we should allow someone that can be so obtuse and grating a free pass. -I simply am gonna ignore WBGs for the rest of the game, but that will be easier once he is no longer in it. ##Vote: Wherebugsgo What's interesting is that none of the reasons included "I think he's scum." rofl. | ||
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as long as the current activity level persists, there is no better option. Palmar and sandro both have done next to nothing in the past what...24 hours? Jaybrundage is new, and everyone else doesn't have enough posts. I'd like to hear from wiggles, though. Other than you, meapak, Erandorr, hiro, no one is doing anything. Hiro hasn't said one thing yet that makes sense or furthers the town's agenda and the other three of you look town right now. | ||
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However Palmar, I'm not convinced Erandorr is a viable alternative. If he were scum it doesn't make sense for him to even soft defend hiro after pressuring him, unless they're both scum and he started out bybussing. That doesn't sound reasonable so I'm willing to bet it isn't true. What do you see in Erandorr's play that makes him scummy? | ||
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Palmar if you'd like you can go ahead and ask me anything you'd like and I'll do my best to answer when I'm back. | ||
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On November 17 2011 02:11 Palmar wrote: I have three questions, and hopefully you will be able to provide a good and detailed answer to each one. a) What do you think of Wiggles, do you agree he is a good lynch for today? b) What do you think of Meapak, he has very conflicting opinions about him. c) Do you still think Hiro is the best lynch we have today? a.) Yeah I think he's a fine lynch. Like I said earlier, his first post was useless and I don't really agree with his case on Meapak. Erandorr too, but surprisingly some of Wiggles's points are valid, which gives me pause. b) I lean town on Meapak. There isn't anything concrete and I admit there is no real objective reason to believe Meapak is town, but for me I think his behavior has made much more sense from a town perspective than a scum one. He's taken a lot of attention in the thread and he isn't afraid of reiterating his case on hiro repeatedly. I've only played with Meapak once and that was in PYP, which was a PM game, so other than the information we have here there really isn't anything to go on. And by "he has very conflicting opinions on him" do you mean wiggles? c) To be honest with you, I don't know. They're both good lynches. On the one hand, hiro has done nothing pro-town. On the other hand, he doesn't do anything as town either. The thing that is giving me most pause is that both you and sandro think he is town. I made the mistake in PYP of believing the town circle about Foolish, and I'm afraid to do that again here. And again, the other side to this is that I believe other townies for good reasons; I'm not always right and I'm not the best at telling apart bad townies from actual scum. Sandro, for example, is probably much better (IMO) at telling apart bad townies from scum than I am. Of course, if he's scum in this game then this whole argument is worthless and I'm an idiot. For now I'm wary of how easy hiro is getting off from this lynch, and my gut takes preference. My vote stays on hiro. I have a question for you though, Palmar. Do you find it weird, like I do, that neither of these targets has really been defended at all? Other than Erandorr doing some weird shit with my case on hiro and you and sandro thinking hiro is townish there has been no backlash over either of them. | ||
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On November 17 2011 09:13 sandroba wrote: Fuck man, there is not much argument against lynching wiggles. No one is really pushing a second candidate (MZ is pushing hiro, but not too strongly, I would expect him to put a lot more effort into it if he was mafia with wiggles). Jaybrundage is looking real scummy to me and voting wiggles too. =/ damn sandro ninja | ||
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You said you're okay with lynching wiggles or hiro but your vote is on neither of them. Why are you showing so much indifference? | ||
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On November 17 2011 10:08 prplhz wrote: @wherebugsgo Which of Mr. Wiggles points give you so much pause that you will not vote him over hiro protagonist even though most other people agree that hiro protagonist probably isn't scum? You said in a post that you were ready to switch to Mr. Wiggles over hiro protagonist unless Mr. Wiggles posted something of value, but you never said what exactly you thought Mr. Wiggles posted that convinced you not to switch your vote. His points on Erandorr make sense. Unlike Palmar, he provided some decent reasoning as to why he suspects Erandorr. IIRC Palmar didn't really expound on why Erandorr is scummy, even when Erandorr asked him to. Also, Wiggles didn't really post anything of value after I said that. My vote switch wasn't necessary, and I didn't like how hiro came in with this: On November 17 2011 08:43 hiro protagonist wrote: Ok, first off, Meapak: This is his first game relevint post: Solid in calling out people. aggresive. I make a point that my post was not worthless, arguing that posting it early in the day and when most people had not posted much the reason that it had worth. To "set the tone" i said. Meapak disagrees and we argue some back and forth when he responds to something I said with this: His logic his correct and I have to admit that my logic is weak, as well as hypocritical. something that WBG will later bring up. he then disperse's for awhile comes back with this: no changing his mind. My conclusion is that he is actively pushing a lynch based on solid logic. also comments about a few others like wiggles, Erandorr, giving his opinion on them. Giving him a second look, I less inclined to think he is scum, but will be watching him as the days go on. now, on to wiggles: so, other than his "throw out a lure" first post he has only posted twice. spolierd for length + Show Spoiler + On November 16 2011 10:36 Mr. Wiggles wrote: I wasn't active. I'm home now, and before that I was just on at school for a half hour at lunch, so I posted something in hopes of there being discussion when I came home, discussion which up until a little while ago has been largely absent. The "let's lynch random player X" train wasn't exactly full of content when it was completely off-hand and based on nothing. Until recently, no one has really produced any actual content, in my eyes. We had 4 pages which were basically Palmar asking to lynch WBG before he'd even posted and then for RNGing the lynch and people telling him no. Neither of those even needed a response, they were just bad ideas with no discussion value besides giving people something to bash on. It's like when someone comes up with a bad plan for town and we spend 10 pages attacking it. Everyone can do it and it doesn't produce real content. Basically, I wanted something to read (which I got), and my post drew out a few reactions which I liked. Erandorr: He's trying hard to be GMarshal. He wants to lead the town along with generic advice and constant appeals to do what's best for town (activity, etc.). This can be seen by the quick reaction to my post, pointing out that it was useless and wouldn't generate good discussion. This is good in and of itself, but he's someone who has to be watched to see if he actually starts to give concrete information on other players in the game, or just continues to act as the "advising townie". Basically, whether he keeps up with the generic advice or starts to contribute concrete and strong analysis. Meapak_Ziphh: Here's our aggressive player. He jumped on my post a lot more forcefully than Erandorr did, before quickly moving on to Palmar, WBG, and then finally Hiro. I'm interested in seeing how he plays after Day 1, because right now he's just cycling through targets, and that could either be him as a townie trying to pressure and find scum, or as scum trying to elicit a response from a skittish townie or blue and take us to a mislynch. He needs to be watched for how he forms his analysis and what the content of it is. jaybrundage: Right now, he's being a sheep. That's either due to the fact that he's new, or because he's trying to blend in. He got called out early, and after that he's just sort of been going along with majority opinion. Case in point: Something to be aware of as we approach LYLO. Wherebugsgo: This is interesting, because he comes in rather later than everyone else and puts effort into attacking my post after most people had left it. It's a case of people jumping on a bad post and repeating what had already been said, because bashing something bad is easy and gets you brownie-points from town. It was mostly left alone until he brought it up again, so I'm curious as to why he did so. He didn't contribute anything that hadn't been said already, so what's the motivation? I mostly see bad players and scum do this, and I don't consider WBG to be a bad player. So, my post got me some information that I consider valuable and more information on certain players than the rest of the thread did before that (besides maybe Hiro). Too bad no one was really dumb and actually responded to my question though, because most townies here are smart enough to know not to and it would have been an easy scum-tell. Now one thing has caught my eye, and thats the following: first in his post he talks about Meapak: Remember this bolded part. So when there is some heat on, says this: So instead of "watching for how he forms his analysis and what the content of it is" he votes on Meapak for disappearing . thats a bit of a jump from "watch this guys post" to "He is scum". the other thing that has bothered me about Wiggles is that he makes no mention of me at all, when the rest of town has put up there thoughts on me. Why leave me out wiggles when I was looking very scummy? So based on what others have said, as well as my own reads, I am be OK with lynching Wiggles. All the rest: I have a funny feeling about Prphz, and I would be OK with lynching him. WBG is slightly more readable and reasonable so far this game, which in its self makes me feel funny but I cant deny his actions have been protown so far. Ill need more time to read over Sand and Palmar Ill be around till slightly before lynch Pray tell, what in this post actually says anything? Other than that I just think hiro is a better lynch than Wiggles. Wiggles isn't a bad lynch, and like Meapak I'm fine with him dying. It's just weird to me that no one is defending Wiggles at all. Unlike Palmar, I don't believe scum would just autobus in a 2 scum game, particularly day 1. I mean think about it, one dead is half the scumteam gone. On day 1 that's a huge loss, because in this setup that means you have to play the rest of the game by yourself and struggle to catch up. Last game I was in that position, basically, since my other half was sick (<3 Radfield) and Kurumi/RoL were really inactive. Wiggles has received no defense at all and that's incredibly strange. However, while I was typing this post jaybrundage posted this: On November 17 2011 10:10 jaybrundage wrote: i was waiting for who it was decided we would vote for we were gonna vote i dont want to vote hiro for instance and then we cant reach a majority so ##Unvote ##Vote Mr.Wiggles He chose to wait all day until it was ensured that Wiggles was dying, then posted this. He has had no influence on today at all. This vote is meaningless since Wiggles already achieved majority. | ||
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with this flip I think we need to look at jay carefully tomorrow. Hiro's probably still a good bet but I think jay looks worse now. Everyone go back and read with this flip in mind! | ||
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If we use the assumption that scum don't bus then we should look at jay. Meapak why do you think we should consider hiro if we think that scum wouldn't bus? Hiro was the fourth vote on wiggles. Do you think that, if hiro+wiggles were scum and they knew the lynch would come between them, then hiro pushed Wiggles later? Because wiggles was goon? It's a possibility I suppose, but I don't understand why you would say hiro should be a consideration under the assumption that scum wouldn't bus another scum. If you hold that to be true then from your perspective the focus is on me and jay, and probably not hiro. Jay came in and voted Wiggles when it was irrelevant. You and I never voted him. At this point though, I understand why Palmar would say scum would be more likely to bus in this situation. If we subscribe to that notion then the scum is among the rest of the remaining players. At any rate I think this game is locked in. We shouldn't be cocky though, it certainly is still possible we can lose. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + jk jk jk :p | ||
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On November 17 2011 18:52 prplhz wrote: I don't think that any of the first 5 people voting for Mr. Wiggles yesterday is scum. You just get too far behind if you start out by bussing your teammate, 1v7 is not a great situation for scum. This leaves wherebugsgo, Meapak_Ziphh, and jaybrundage. jaybrundage strikes me a genuinely new at this game, and I think a newbie would be more giddy about the QT, about making plans and talking to his scumbuddy before doing something crazy. I don't think a newbie as scum would overplay his newbieness in his very first game. I don't see him voting for wherebugsgo if he were scum, he'd be a lot more worried about getting caught and about his QT. This leaves wherebugsgo, and Meapak_Ziphh. I think this is very hard to decide but I don't think that Mr. Wiggles would have pushed for Meapak_Ziphh if Meapak_Ziphh had been his scumbuddy. This is again the "You don't bus your teammate 2v7 day1" idea, they wouldn't want the lynch to be between them as one of them would clearly get lynched then. I think if Meapak_Ziphh had been scum, Mr. Wiggles would have had better targets for lynch that day, such as hiro protagonist but also jaybrundage and Erandorr. This leaves wherebugsgo. I think it would be very hard to catch wherebugsgo doing anything overly scummy because, as Palmar stated, he is quite good at scum. - He doesn't hammer Mr. Wiggles on a flaky foundation of "liking his points about Erandorr". - He tries to make us focus on hiro protagonist and jaybrundage after lynch, two people who might appear as easy targets but I doubt that either of them is scum. - He needlessly softclaims power role in his very first post. I don't think that this alone is enough to pin wherebugsgo as scum but by the process of elimination, I think he's the player who is most likely to be the last scum. 1. Didn't hammer Wiggles cause I thought hiro was the better lynch. 2. Hiro/Jay are not easy targets, and I am actually not suggesting we pursue hiro. Did you not read my last post where I asked Meapak why he's ignoring the fact that hiro was one of the votes on Wiggles? 3. What? | ||
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On November 18 2011 11:26 prplhz wrote: ##Vote wherebugsgo I feel kinda good about it. I don't ^^ I still think Jay is the best bet. What do y'all think? ##vote Jaybrundage | ||
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also Q: Do people get notified if they are roleblocked? A: No one gets notified, If the cop gets roleblocked his investigations will return no results. So we should treat any roleblock claims as liars unless they claim cop as well. | ||
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Erandorr you here? I would like to hear those thoughts of yours. Sandro please explain about Meapak. | ||
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On November 19 2011 06:50 jaybrundage wrote: And one more think i did call out Mr.Wiggles on his no content first post I really wish someone would explain to me why they think im scummy : ( problem is, everyone did that. Lol. Everyone who is in this game needs to post their thoughts. As I've said already, I think jay is probably our best bet still, but no one really has commented on anything, besides the post Erandorr made a little while ago. Sadly there's very little to discuss right now because everyone is gone. I can't talk to myself ^^ I don't want to be pursuing the wrong person today. Sandro I'd still like to hear from you about Meapak, and it would be good to see Meapak's thoughts as well. | ||
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On November 19 2011 07:17 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Well the activity level is disapointing. Alright I'm going to vote WBG and here's why. I'll address the white elephant in the room. WBG and I are the two people who wanted to lynch hiro over Wiggles. I know that jaybrundage didn't as well but I just don't see him as scum. Wiggles flipped scum which obviously casts tons of suspicion on WBG and I. I know I'm town, the reason I thought WBG was town as well was because he called out the same things I saw in hiro and was generally playing what I considered townie. In hindsight that's because WBG has had some very similar reads as myself so I just assumed he'd be town if he was seeing things I saw. Okay, so right off the bat I can tell you probably don't know my scum play very well, since as scum I tend to push suspicions very hard. When situations like this occur, I jump all over them and waste no time in accusing the people with no thread presence. Also, as scum I'm not afraid of starting a fight. In that case why wouldn't I immediately turn on you, since the logical conclusion, as you state, is for the suspicion to fall on me and you? On November 19 2011 07:17 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: I reread WBG’s posts again and found that he soft defends Wiggles in much the same way I did, in particular this post: Let’s take a look at this post. WBG has now said twice that Wiggles is a good lynch. His reasons are that his first post was useless (generic) and that he doesn’t agree with his case on my. Now this comes up several times, WBG defends me. This felt strange to me at the time however, after thinking about it, it makes sense from a scum perspective. Day one I was the only person with an alternative lynch candidate to hiro, the more people I have subtly defending me the more credibility I gain and thus my lynch gains. At the end of this post WBG throws in the little tidbit that “surprisingly some of Wiggle’s points are valid which gives me pause.” This is a great way for a scum to again, subtly change the conversation. He’s again giving someone credit (Wiggles) while at the same time drawing another name into the conversation (Erandorr, who’s been mentioned before by Palmar so it’s possible that this lynch could take off). How does it make sense from a scum perspective? I gain nothing from defending you. I defended you against a case I thought was dumb. It had no merit, that's all. Occam's Razor. Lastly, if I was trying to give Wiggles credit and then trying to draw Erandorr into the lynch conversation, why is it that I have not pushed Erandorr to be lynched? I don't find Erandorr suspicious, despite the fact that he agreed with my argument on hiro but attacked it on the grounds that he didn't like me. On November 19 2011 07:17 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Now here’s another post after Wiggles has achieved majority but before the end of the day: First he takes time to ever so delicately defend Wiggles while at the same time justifying his vote for hiro. Then he once again calls out hiro and restates that hiro is a better lynch and sows more doubt about the Wiggles lynch. He also ends this post attacking jaybrundage. Now I agree that jay’s vote is absolutely terrible, however if WBG is scum he gains two things out of attacking that post. Not only does he look protown by calling out bullshit, he also sets himself up for day 2 when people are going to be milling around for a target. Jaybrundage is a SUPER easy lynch for that vote and his poor play on day one, WBG is setting the lynch up here. Again, Occam's Razor. I was responding to prpl, that's why I clarified my stance on Wiggles and justified my vote for hiro. And yes, of course I would sow doubt about the wiggles lynch and reinstate that hiro was better, when I genuinely thought that. There is no scum agenda here, just my own thoughts. Lastly, I attacked jaybrundage because no one else seemed to notice what he did. Despite him being a noob, if he said hiro/wiggles were fine lynches all day then why did he keep his vote on me till AFTER wiggles was hammered? He essentially abstained yesterday. Again, you're stretching to call me scum. On November 19 2011 07:17 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Boom more anti jay posting. This brings his earlier post back into mind. If he’s scum, he knows the flip and can start pressuring Jay before the flip essentially. With the flip he can now begin calling for jay’s death a lot more strongly. These are his response to prphlz’s points. Regarding his second point, hiro was the easy target day one, when he and I were arguing hiro slipped and slipped and slipped. Going after him is easy and gives you cheap town credit. Now on day two Jay is an easy target as well for his poor play and late vote on wiggles. If we assume that scum wouldn’t bus scum day one, then that really leaves WBG, jay, and I. Each of us has a very limited number of targets to choose from to advocate a lynch today. Undoubtedly though, jay is the easiest lynch for WBG to push. Now I understand that it's just as easy for WBG to make a similar case against me. Thus if the town decides to lynch me today I'd understand that and tbh I'd be fine with it as long as WBG is lynched tomorrow. tl;dr: WBG is scum. He pushed the easy target day one and soft defended Wiggles throughout, he set himself up to go after jay today, another easy target. He's actually the only player fully soft defend wiggles (the only thing I ever said was that hiro was a better lynch, I never said I actually agreed with some of Wiggle's points). I disagree that jay is easy to lynch. Think about it. Jay is new and almost no one thinks he's scum. Sandro is the only exception and sandro has not been around to really say anything; he has almost no thread presence. If jay were an easy target and I was scum, I would no doubt believe that other townies would suspect him. I don't believe you are scum, Meapak, so in that case you should reconsider your vote and take a second look at jay. | ||
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After I eat some breakfast I think I'll be set haha. I don't think we should no-lynch today, on skimming the last page I keep seeing this idea crop up. | ||
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On November 19 2011 20:23 sandroba wrote: @Errandor I commented on that already in a previous post. I had a town read on hiro day1, but wiggles not going for him when his ass was on the line seems a bit strange. It can be explained if he thought he wouldn't be able to convince me/palmar hiro was scum OR hiro was indeed scum with him. Hiro is missing though, he said 12 hours but it's been way more than that =/. I wanna hear what he has to say about today's lynch.What's your take on today? Who you think is the best lynch? I noticed this as well; although at first I thought it was incredibly unlikely that hiro would be scum since he put the fourth vote on Wiggles, but then both players said some strange things that didn't quite add up either way. It's WIFOM and honestly I think you could make an equally reasonable argument either way. In such a situation I think we'd simply have to lynch him to find out, since, like you said about Jay, I don't think hiro will flip due to a scum shot. The question is, do we have that liberty? Right now Jay is the best bet for being scum. If he somehow flips town then we have: 5v1 after lynch 4v1 or 5v1 after night (medic prot/no medic prot) Then if we lynch someone and they are not scum again: 3v1 or 4v1, night 2v1 or 3v1 or 4v1 (no medic prots, one, two) On the assumption we have no medics/they don't manage to prot anyone we have two mislynches at our disposal. Of course, if we have no medics then we have a cop, if we mislynch twice and he lives to the last day all he has had to do is check one of the players who is left alive and we win. Keep this in mind if you are the cop. On November 19 2011 21:59 Erandorr wrote: Do you honestly think he would be dumb enough as Scum to draw our attention back to that fact?If he was playing his first game as scum, do you really think he would write something like that about you, an established player and specificly point out that he did not vote at the time you thought he did and that makes your supicion of him a lot stronger? Why would he point out that he held his vote? You think he is actually that bad? He's playing his first game as scum, what makes you think that he knows how any of us play? I really doubt he's gone out and read other games, and other than what people have said about my play in XLV I don't think he knows anyone's history. On November 19 2011 23:00 jaybrundage wrote: Ok well i think Sandroba misunderstood me I was ensuring we got majority. I see how you guys think Sandroba is town. Im curious btw can the mafia still talk to each other after one is dead about the game specifically? Well as i see it WBG and Hiro are the best candidates for mafia. Its wierd i wanted to go for Hiro but after Sandrobas read lots of people backed off. The assumption that mafia wouldnt bus day one is one we cant completely rely on. If Hiro was under suspicion and then Mr.Wiggles Hiro has to act quick to obtain town cred. And still the fact that Mr.Wiggles never once called out Hiro as scum. He did just about call out everyone else tho. Hiro seems like the next logic go for mafia. The only reason i have been so vocal is because i am town and all i got are my voice and my vote And i think the other reason people are defending me is because the DT prolly checked me and i showed up green. What's with the bolded question? What would drive a town player to ask that? I know he's new and all, but even curiosity aside, that's a strange question to ask. On November 20 2011 00:23 jaybrundage wrote: 1. 2. 3.Wherebugsgo 4.Meapak_Ziphh Ok so MZ went really strong after Hiro while we didnt find out if hes mafia or not had it been a mislynch it would of looked terrible on him. As he pretty went balls to the wall trying to lynch him. 5.Erandorr Erandorr was one of the first votes on Mr.Wiggles and has seemed like he is always posting pro town imo Erandorr would not be defending me as town because if he was mafia he would be pushing a mislynch 6.prplhz Again was one of the first votes on Mr.Wiggles and always seems like he is very protown putting in good posts active also defending me so there is not mislynch 7.hiro protagonist 8.jaybrundage 9.Sandroba (I guess ill trust you guys) and i do see what you said about changing the vote from hiro to Mr.Wiggles and because everyone else has seen you as town so gotta trust the vets judgment :p It would only be in the mafias advantage to have a easy mislynch thats also why i was suspicious of you and am also suspicious of WBG. Suprising Hiro hasnt said anything about it. Hiro what do you think of lynching me? Why are you calling people town so easily? This is really strange, I can't make heads nor tails of what's going on with this right now. Either he really is a new townie who is overly trusting of other players, and is now downplaying his confusion by sheeping our opinions so that he doesn't get lynched, or he's a new scum who is doing almost exactly the same thing, except it's a charade. As I've said before, distinguishing bad/new townies from scum is often my weakest point, so I really don't know what to say atm. On November 20 2011 01:27 prplhz wrote: @Erandorr At the danger of being ever more of an idiot I don't think that hiro protagonist is scum. I skimmed some of his earlier games and he always looks like this. This post from PYP:I looks the same as his posts here, he never says anybody is scum. He mostly just focuses on who is town. Now, I know that there was a mayoral election on day1 in PYP:I but people still had to scum hunt. Also his logic was way off as illustrated in posts like this. I think his posts in that game looks a lot like his posts in this game, he is trying, in his own peculiar way, to create what he think is is a good townie atmosphere. The most townie tell for hiro protagonist in my opinion is that he voted for Mr. Wiggles as fourth. I don't think the lynch was certain at that point and I don't think that he bussed Mr. Wiggles. While sandroba had said that he liked the Mr. Wiggles lynch he had not voted yet and I don't think that anybody would bus their scum buddy on day1. I don't think scum would want any of them to die on day1 since that would give town 3 lynches to find the last scum, that's really uphill. I would like to lynch wherebugsgo. The simplest explanation is that scum don't want to die day1, don't draw attention to each other, and that overly newbie play is probably because someone is ... very new at this game. This leaves wherebugsgo. Also, I don't hate wherebugsgo's play, I think he's pretty good at mafia both as scum and as town, but whatever. I don't like the no lynch idea. I don't see what you are seeing in those posts, but hiro's posts in this game do not look like that. Also he's not focusing on finding townies in this game, and I don't even think the two games are comparable. Lastly, if the bolded were the case then I am not scum. I wanted Wiggles to be lynched, but I thought hiro was a better choice. If I were scum, I would've acted upon the fact that there were four votes left and hammered Wiggles. I'm very decisive as scum and not afraid of starting arguments, but I am afraid of things that make me look bad long term. Not hammering wiggles, I admit, made me look really bad. I also straddled the fence because I was unsure between hiro and wiggles, though my gut kept saying hiro was the better lynch. Ofc, at this point we don't know if hiro is scum or not, so I could very well still be right. I reasoned after the flip that it was unlikely though, since hiro voted fourth on Wiggles. I was the one who pointed this out to Meapak, who said the focus should be on me+hiro. If I were scum why would I point that out to Meapak, and basically give him a free pass to attack me? If I were scum I would have no interest in giving information to town, that would work against my win condition. I could have simply let Meapak chase after hiro because he missed the fact that hiro was the fourth vote on Wiggles. On November 20 2011 03:38 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Sandroba I don't think no lynching is a good idea. Relying on blues just isn't something I want to do. We don't know for sure if we have any of those roles and even if we do they might get sniped and then that ruins the plan. Other things. Re hiro protagonist: I thought it was already established that he wasn't the most suspicious because he was the fourth vote on wiggles. I dropped my case against him when several people pointed that out. Re jaybrundage: After reading the thread this morning I'm starting to think you're being coached. You make these absolutely TERRIBLE posts but then you come back with one or two decent ones. I wonder if anyone else has this feeling? I'm going to have spotty activity today, I'll do my best to keep up on my itouch. Yes, this is why I thought hiro was not scum, but in rereading after seeing this post by Erandorr: On November 20 2011 00:37 Erandorr wrote:+ Show Spoiler + I think Hiro maybe the other Mafia we are looking for. There are a couple of points worth noting. He agrees with Palmar that he would like to vote WBG, but does not follow up. When I ask him about it he repeats "lets start this game off the right foot" and ignores my question. That is not very like a town player. He then proceeds to give us a generic game mechanic post. THat in itself is not bad, but combined with it being in the same post where he ignored my question, it did look kind of bad. Now everything that he did in the early parts of the game are excusable and in now way make him scum. But there are quite a few ties to Wiggles and some really bad behavior On November 16 2011 12:28 hiro protagonist wrote: OK, here are my reads so far: 1.Palmar - null read, nothing to go on really. curious how he will play the last half of day 1. 2.Mr Wiggles- null read. His first post was obviously trying to draw out reactions. both scum and town would can do that so it sheds no alignment. His second post has his reads on everyone one that responded to him. He does not give his opinion on the current lynch target. 3.Wherebugsgo- Ill get to him last... 4.Meapak_Ziphh- leaning Red. Its not anything that he said, more its his overall style in the game so far. He jumps on easy targets AKA both my "generic post" and Wiggle's first post. He undercuts my statement of trying to start things on the right foot by saying its worthless, something that is clearly a mafia agenda IMO. Will be watching. 5.Erandorr- leaning town. Wants to lead town. Im all for it. 6.prplhz- null read. asks me alot of questions, and has done very little else. Could be scum wanting to make me more skittish (which he is btw) last post makes me feel more townie about him. 7.hiro protagonist- townie. says scummy things, but has the right intentions ^_^ 8.jaybrundage- Null His last post is considerably better than those before it. His post are hard to read. Needs to be more clear. Needs to step up. 9.Sandroba- nothing. And now for my vote. and I will place it on WBG. here is why: -Bugs still has the same arrogant aggressive Behavior as every other game hes played. He is wrong most of the time as town, and It has cost the town the game on more than one occasion. -I dont think we should allow someone that can be so obtuse and grating a free pass. -I simply am gonna ignore WBGs for the rest of the game, but that will be easier once he is no longer in it. ##Vote: Wherebugsgo This was his only post with content, or somethign like that. Palmar gave me shit for a similar post ( correctly, although I did have other intentions behind it) but notice how little Hiro is actually saying ,. First of he has nullreads on nearly everybody and his best target at that point is WBG, still for the same reasons he stated at the start. He does not even seem to think that WBG is playing particularly scummy, just very annoying and he does not want to deal with him. Notice also that he soft defends Wiggles twice. He spins Wiggles first post in a pro-town manner and then defends him again when talking about MZ (I bolded those parts) filter + Show Spoiler + Ok, first off, Meapak: This is his first game relevint post: On November 16 2011 04:59 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: I guess this will be one of Palmar's off games then. Anyway, I'd feel good about lynching Wiggles right now. While it's true that the game has been slow there's still stuff to talk about. Wiggles decided to ignore the whole Palmar thing and told everyone to sit back and talk about completely irelevant things for no appparent purpose. Also I'd feel grand lynching hiro. Show nested quote + This post is so unbelievable worthless that my mind has a hard time comprehending it. This is like a textbook example of contributing without contributing and fluff posting. The part in red had me laughing it was so hypocritical. Solid in calling out people. aggresive. I make a point that my post was not worthless, arguing that posting it early in the day and when most people had not posted much the reason that it had worth. To "set the tone" i said. Meapak disagrees and we argue some back and forth when he responds to something I said with this: On November 16 2011 07:13 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Show nested quote + wow... just wow. This is the worst logic fail I've ever seen. I said your post was worthless because, news flash, it was. Me saying that your post is worthless =/= me promoting spam and tunneling and whatnot. Just because I said you're fluff posting doesn't mean I support "pro mafia ideas." Congrats on becoming a better lynch targer then Mr. Wiggles. His logic his correct and I have to admit that my logic is weak, as well as hypocritical. something that WBG will later bring up. he then disperse's for awhile comes back with this: On November 17 2011 06:22 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: So Wiggles, please show me where I "make multiple aggressive moves towards people before settling on hiro." Your whole little case against me is essentially a rehash of what hiro wrote. It was bad when hiro wrote it and it's bad now. Still, I don't think Wiggles is the best lynch for today. The case against Wiggles started when sandroba decided to start playing the game. Palmar jumped on board and those two got things started. Now the case isn't completely baseless. I've seen Wiggles play third party and scum and his current play does smell suspiciously like that. However I'd rather lynch hiro, who's scummy behavior has only increased since last time I brought him up. Notice that since the case against Wiggles was brought up, hiro has posted ZERO times. This is a huge scumtell in that once the pressure's off he goes back to lurking. A townie would still be contributing, however a mafia would want to get out of the discussion as soon as the pressure is off. no changing his mind. My conclusion is that he is actively pushing a lynch based on solid logic. also comments about a few others like wiggles, Erandorr, giving his opinion on them. Giving him a second look, I less inclined to think he is scum, but will be watching him as the days go on. now, on to wiggles: so, other than his "throw out a lure" first post he has only posted twice. spolierd for length + Show Spoiler + Now one thing has caught my eye, and thats the following: first in his post he talks about Meapak: Meapak_Ziphh: Here's our aggressive player. He jumped on my post a lot more forcefully than Erandorr did, before quickly moving on to Palmar, WBG, and then finally Hiro. I'm interested in seeing how he plays after Day 1, because right now he's just cycling through targets, and that could either be him as a townie trying to pressure and find scum, or as scum trying to elicit a response from a skittish townie or blue and take us to a mislynch. He needs to be watched for how he forms his analysis and what the content of it is. Remember this bolded part. So when there is some heat on, says this: On November 17 2011 00:52 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Meapak_Ziphh on the other hand, has shown that he's definitely scummy. He was trying to play the hyper-aggressive townie, but he hasn't played his role quite well enough. Notice that he makes aggressive moves towards multiple players in a short period of time, before settling on hiro. This is enough to establish himself as "scumhunting", but then he never follows up. There's barely any additional pressure on hiro after his vote, he doesn't try to convince anyone else in the town to vote for hiro, he doesn't respond to what I said about him, and he basically disappears from the thread. This is incredibly scummy, and contrary to everything a townie should be doing after early aggression. ##Vote: Meapak_Ziphh So instead of "watching for how he forms his analysis and what the content of it is" he votes on Meapak for disappearing . thats a bit of a jump from "watch this guys post" to "He is scum". the other thing that has bothered me about Wiggles is that he makes no mention of me at all, when the rest of town has put up there thoughts on me. Why leave me out wiggles when I was looking very scummy? So based on what others have said, as well as my own reads, I am be OK with lynching Wiggles. All the rest: I have a funny feeling about Prphz, and I would be OK with lynching him. WBG is slightly more readable and reasonable so far this game, which in its self makes me feel funny but I cant deny his actions have been protown so far. Ill need more time to read over Sand and Palmar Ill be around till slightly before lynch Then there is the timing of his vote on Wiggles. It was clear that you and Palmar especially seemed to agree that Wiggles was the best lynch. Me Palmar and Prplzh voted Wiggles already and then he decides to show up again with a pretty strong turn and jumps on the Wiggles wagon. He adds some okay-ish arguments and then says that he is "Okay with lynching Wiggles." Is is also "okay" with lynching prplzh but never follows up with that. It is also important to note that he turned on MZ and was considering that he may be town. Same goes for WBG And then there is this post : On November 17 2011 09:54 hiro protagonist wrote: Seems like some people have cold feet? MZ would love to lynch me. Seems like everyone voting wiggles is like "yeah, ok, Ill vote him" wishy washy except Palmar. WBG feels better about lynching me. Jay still has his vote on bugs that was there 5 min into the game lol. Sand has not voted. Anyone have any other thoughts. Meapak, If not me, who would you vote? Anyone here that would rather lynch someone other than me or wiggles? Notice that Hiro voted for wiggles and agreeing that he would make an okay lynch. He never speaks against the lynch directly but still wants to get support for a turnaround away from either him or Wiggles. That post sounds really , really bad to me. He also claims that no one really seems to believe in the lynch, thus carefully stating again that he does not really like it and wants to get it away from wiggles. Yet we never hear a word against the lynch from him. If he was town, wouldn't he still push the targets he believes in? Instead he sort of agrees with the lynch on Wiggles but still does want to get the lynch away from the guy. To me it sounds like a bus where Hiro still tried to get the lynch deflected to someone else. I'm unsure again. On November 20 2011 02:17 prplhz wrote: Meapak_Ziphh is not scum because Mr. Wiggles wrote an analysis on him, I doubt that the scum wanted either of them to get lynched day1, so Mr. Wiggles wouldn't try to make the lynch between the two of them. This is WIFOM, though. I agree with you that Meapak doesn't look scum, but for different reasons than this. You can't simply assume scum won't make other scum look bad, because that's not always true. Think about it, I don't think Palmar would've said he thought the optimal play for scum day 1 was to bus unless it actually has happened. I didn't agree with it earlier but it's certainly possible, we just cannot rule things out based on unbased assumptions. That's how, for example, town often falls into the trap of getting a "confirmed townie" and letting him live. On November 20 2011 02:17 prplhz wrote: jaybrundage is not scum because I think that a newbie would not throw a crazy vote 5 minutes into the game without consulting his much more experienced scum buddy. I don't think Mr. Wiggles would have gone out without giving jaybrundage some advice and I don't think jaybrundage looks coached, his newbieness looks very real. Wait again, how can you assume this? One person thinks jay looks coached, you think he doesn't look coached. Don't you see that there is no room here to just assume those things? We can't have it both ways, since between you and Meapak there's nothing objective that furthers one argument over the other. On November 20 2011 02:17 prplhz wrote: I am never sure that anybody is scum. If I could lynch anybody right now I would lynch wherebugsgo, that's how sure I am but I kinda wanted some input from the rest of you before I made a case and none of you seem too hooked on the idea ... other than jaybrundage. Up till this statement you hadn't said anything scummy, but I find this really strange. You wanted to lynch me, but you didn't push it strongly because you wanted other people's approval? That's backward thinking, you make a case on someone you think is scum and THEN you see how other people react. Waiting to make a case because you want to hear other opinions is rather weird, because you won't usually hear much unless you actually make the case to begin with. On November 20 2011 02:17 prplhz wrote: I don't like the no lynch idea because I don't think it is a good idea to blues. In case we don't have a detective there's going to be a ton of WIFOM involved, also it could all go wrong. And the way it looks, we're going to lynch jaybrundage, the guy who might be the hardest to get a concrete read on. Scum is never going to shoot him and we'll be left with your null tell still in 3 real days.
I like the best case scenarios. I don't like the worst case scenarios. Imagine if we sit here in two days, our doc dead and another townie dead, no one claiming any other blue role and jaybrundage still alive. How would you like that situation? I don't like the idea of putting a huge responsibility on the blue(s) when we have no idea if they have the skill or ability to even further town's goal this game with an additional two nights to perform their actions. Ideally, we win the game but I'd much rather lynch jaybrundage than no lynch. If jaybrundage is at 4 votes at the end of the day I'll switch to him. This isn't all thought out I admit but I'm not a huge statistics buff. I still think it's not a great idea to no lynch. I hope you meant three votes and not four, since four votes means jay would already be hammered and you would be wasting your vote. Most of the rest of the post is rather weird because the best case in all of the situations is that we win the game and the worst case is we lose! (lol wut) I mean, what was the point of all of that? On November 20 2011 03:49 jaybrundage wrote: Maybe im getting better :D yay. MZ the assumption that scum wouldnt bus day one is a mind set thats hurting us. They had a choice either Hiro was going to get lynched. Mr.Wiggles and Hiro tried to get a case against you but it failed. So the only chance Hiro had was to bus Mr.Wiggles. Consider this If Hiro hadnt voted for Mr.Wiggles He would be automatically the next logical target. He didnt have much choice thank you for the compliment :D If you think that mindset is hurting us, why is your vote still on me? On November 20 2011 03:56 prplhz wrote: I had that feeling too Meapak_Ziphh, but I thought he'd actually read some guides and then, Mr. Wiggles isn't in the QT and he hasn't written several posts for jaybrundage. Maybe he pointed out some stuff for jaybrundage that he could do or say, but that doesn't make any sense when jaybrundage elects to go for sandroba, which is a crazy move and I really doubt that Mr. Wiggles told him to do that, I should think that he would have told him to go for somebody else. I'd much rather see jaybrundage hang than a no lynch. He's the second most scummy by far, even though I'd still prefer wherebugsgo. If there are 4 votes on jaybrundage before deadline, I'm gonna switch to him. @sandroba What do you want to do tomorrow then if jaybrundage flips green? You said you had a harder time reading newbies than more seasoned players, and I feel that your jaybrundage lynch isn't as much a scum read as it is a you-will-never-get-a-read-on-him-anyway read. Also, you could be dead tomorrow so I hope that you will be active tonight if jaybrundage doesn't flip scum. As sandro pointed out (sometime yesterday?) sandro actually, from a scum perspective, probably doesn't have much thread cred. Look at it this way; by the end of day 1 he was one of the most inactive players, he was relatively indecisive, and there was never any suspicion on him. Even now there has been no suspicion on him. That's an excellent opportunity for scum to open up an attack, since they love players like that. It makes it look as if they are doing real analysis, they are obviously making an original attack, since no one else found that person scummy, and analysis can be fabricated because the player is relatively inactive. When you think about it like that, it's not so far-fetched that a scum player would attack sandro. The bigger assumption is actually the one you're making, that a new player wouldn't attack sandro since he's a well-known good townie or whatever. That assumption relies on wiggles telling him that, and trying to figure out what scum would do in that kind of situation is very similar to predicting or making sense of night kills; only scum know that. | ||
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On November 20 2011 06:28 Erandorr wrote: Oh shit. I just noticed something. Could all of you guys look at MZ and explain to me why we are not lynching the shit out of him, too? ? | ||
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wherebugsgo
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On November 20 2011 06:50 prplhz wrote: He is focusing on finding townies. Maybe this is because he doesn't trust his own scum hunting abilities and instead he tries to find townies that he can trust. I think he has more confidence as scum, since he knows he's wrong and that he can't possibly he right it's easier to be more assertive. You even complained about it yourself that his list of reads didn't contain a single scum read. Yes, it made you look bad that you didn't hammer Mr. Wiggles. You can say that you wanted him lynched as much as you want. You pointed out something that 6 townies would have figured out eventually (I knew it, I would have stated it if you hadn't). These are easy points for scum to get town credit, you point out something that's important but that's going to be figured out in a short while anyway. There is nothing to suggest that hiro is looking for townies any more than he is looking for scum. I don't know how you can come to this conclusion when hiro hasn't even said anything about it himself. Second, when the hell have you seen hiro play scum? How would you know how he would play scum, or what kind of confidence he would have as either alignment? And I don't believe I complained that it contained no scum reads. He called meapak scum, but he didn't call me scum. That's what I pointed out. I pointed out the fact that he voted me despite never calling me scum. He said he thought meapak was red, so my concern was the disconnect between his thoughts and his vote. Lastly, I wouldn't point out something like that as scum about my own scumbuddy before anyone else noticed it. That's dumb, since it wouldn't further my win condition. If I were scum with Wiggles I would have either bussed him when it was apparent he was going to die or I would have destroyed the thread in my attempt to cover it up and distract you guys. I'm not afraid of causing chaos when I'm mafia, because I know I can get away with it if I have to. And, what's your point? I was the first to point out something important about wiggles, but your excuse is that it would've been figured out anyway, so I'm scum? Your logic makes no sense. I thought wiggles was scummy but hiro was scummier. So I voted hiro. You claim to adhere to Occam's Razor but you ignore the simplest explanation when it's staring you in the face. On November 20 2011 06:50 prplhz wrote: No, it is not WIFOM that two scum do not want a lynch to be between themselves on day1. They want both to make it through day1. Palmar said to ignore everything he said during the night including his hard bussing theory, a theory that also surprised me as I wrote in the thread. I don't propose lynching only between those who didn't vote for Mr. Wiggles, but I think that it is very much more likely that we find scum there so that's where I'm looking. We can think about something else later. Yea, it's hard to be objective about whether someone looks coached or not. Same about whether someone looks genuine or fake or fabricate and all that. I can only say that I doubt Mr. Wiggles would go out without giving some advice to his newbie scum buddy. Mr. Wiggles put a lot of effort into the thread when he was about to get lynched, do you really think he just totally ignored jaybrundage in the QT? That would make no sense. If what you think Wiggles did was effort, then I really have to question what you are talking about. Wiggles rolled over and died, he did next to nothing to save himself. If you think he put a lot of effort into his case on Meapak then I don't really know if you're reading the same game I am. Also, when and where did Palmar say to ignore what he said during the night? He died that night, he certainly couldn't have said it in retrospect unless I missed something. On November 20 2011 06:50 prplhz wrote: Look through my games. I doubt I've ever pushed any lynch harder than this. What? Your defense is that you don't push lynches hard, so...then what? lol. You should have no fear of pushing a case if you're town, your apprehension is what is setting me off. I don't understand why you would be apprehensive when I know as town you push ideas very strongly. Your ideas might not always make sense but you don't wait around for people to agree with you before pushing them, normally. On November 20 2011 06:50 prplhz wrote: Yes, three of course. Yes, it's a weird post. I just wanted to show that I'd thought about it, in the end I arrived at the same conclusion as a lot of other people: it's not worth it. I'm not a statistics buff so I can't give you numbers but it just seems to risky and town is in a good position right now so I don't think it's worth it. sandroba has a lot of town credit, he hammered Mr. Wiggles. I don't think you could pick a worse day2 target than sandroba, especially for a new guy since he's gonna get destroyed no matter what. It's a bit hard to judge since jaybrundage is new but I just think he strikes me as a new guy with a very misguided attack on sandroba. A lot of new players think they've figured it out and that they're batman, that's what he uses to explain his late Mr. Wiggles vote too, a crazy plan that makes no sense. I think newbies like these and it fits on him, while I think that it's hard to overplay the newbie card as a newbie. I disagree with you, sandroba wouldn't be a terrible choice for a scum to attack. He's not the best and I agree with you on that; so then why would we consider optimal cases? Since jay is new he's not going to play optimally regardless of his alignment. It doesn't make much sense to push sandro from either alignment but it makes more sense from a scum perspective. Yes, sandro hammered wiggles, but look at how jay keeps talking about Palmar's idea that it's hindering our thought process to eliminate the possibility scum would bus. | ||
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We have two shots before we need to make a call that will make or break the game. That's a great position to be in, particularly as today and tomorrow will be our information days. We lynch Jay, and if he flips town we brush that off and reevaluate again. We'll probably need to look hard at who might have considered bussing scum, since if Jay is not scum, and since I think Meapak is pretty town, scum would probably be in the prpl/Erandorr/hiro/sandro side. | ||
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On November 20 2011 08:10 jaybrundage wrote: WBG whats your thoughts on lynching hiro? I don't think he's the best lynch for today. Erandorr made some very good points about him, but honestly being the fourth vote on Wiggles, and how he has played since then has given me doubt. When I reread the thread after wiggles and palmar flipped I wasn't confident in my day 1 read anymore. If you are indeed town though, we'll probably need to reconsider hiro again. | ||
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On November 20 2011 08:14 jaybrundage wrote: Eh so nothing can be learned from my death? And you also agreeing with me about scum bussing all of a sudden. Sure something can be learned from your death. If you're scum, we win. If you're town, like I said, we reevaluate again and move on. If you're town and you die, like I said, that probably means we need to heavily reconsider that scum bussed on day 1, because to me it is unlikely that Meapak is scum. I will reread again since Erandorr has posted something (I just kinda skimmed it, sorry) about Meapak and I want to see for myself again if there's anything that I missed. | ||
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On November 18 2011 10:44 Palmar wrote: just ignore the things ive a said during the night. oh found what prpl was talking about. I thought this was in reference to what he said about jay being cute. But, if you think it was game-relevant...then...okay. lol. | ||
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I'll be rereading the thread again and will post my thoughts in the morning when I'm awake. Feel free to discuss, Europeans. | ||
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Prpl you don't make any sense. | ||
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Sandro I'd like to hear your thoughts. Prpl I'd strongly suggest that you build a case, since I really can't say anything other than "I'm not scum" at this point. I've already addressed your earlier points and defending myself will be a further waste of time today. I'll answer any questions you have, but if you are town (which think you are) then you should weigh in on Meapak/hiro. If you don't want to do this, then I really wonder if I've got the wrong read and you're not actually town. | ||
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I'm tired :/ | ||
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On November 21 2011 18:38 prplhz wrote: @Meapak_Ziphh You help me lynch wherebugsgo today, I'll help you lynch sandroba tomorrow. Deal? Also, if there is a cop somewhere he kinda needs to claim today, but yea I agree with sandroba that that is very unlikely. yo this isn't Pokemon card trading, it's mafia. Since I'm town and I'm leaning town on sandro that little trade of yours would, I bet, lose us the game. Hiro is sliding by with no activity. He's done absolutely nothing, never sticks his neck out, never contributes to discussion. IIRC his vote yesterday was useless, it was made after the hammer. He's most suspicious to me because of those reasons. Erandorr also pointed out very good reasons why hiro was scum. So I disagree with you, Meapak, on why Erandorr died. It's certainly possible Erandorr died because hiro is scum. As of now I'm pretty unsure too but I really don't have anything better. ##vote hiro protagonist | ||
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are we going to let scum just slide by today? Wtf??! *pokes thread with a stick* | ||
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/MEwgu.jpg) + Show Spoiler + fwiw, I'm going to cancel at 30 minutes | ||
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On November 22 2011 10:07 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: I'm leaning town on him. He was the 3(?) person to vote for Wiggles. Had he not voted for Wiggles the lynch might have stalled out. He could have voted for Hiro with you and I and suddenly it's Hiro who's close to the majority. Look here's the thing WBG. I am really having a hard time thinking you're scum. You've acted fairly protown in my eyes especially when compared to someone like hiro. Now we could lynch you and then lynch me (or the other way around) but I just have a terrible feeling about that. If you don't flip scum then we lose (I'm town, I'll be the next mislynch if we decide to lynch you and I). I don't think you'll flip scum. This then means that scum voted Wiggles and it's much more likely to be hiro than prp imo. I'd love to hear what sandroba thinks. I actually agree with you, since I think you're town as well. Lynching you and me in any order will lose us the game. Let's kill hiro, and then afterward we'll need to reevaluate. I'm not convinced on the sandro case as of yet but atm anything is a possibility. prpl looks town and he's normally weird, but the things he is saying aren't making any sense at all. Palmar was right in that scum would probably have bussed day 1. | ||
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If your argument is that Wiggles mentioned Meapak, then I don't think you understand the difference between bussing and distancing. | ||
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I should hopefully have adequate time to respond in about 5-6 hours. | ||
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I agree with everything sandro has said. In the amazingly remote chance that hiro is town, we can reevaluate later, with hiro gone it'd be only 4 left. Nothing to do but wait. | ||
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You said all that stuff about sandro only to call him town at the end rofl | ||
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I was gonna post this right before deadline but I was in a LoL match. I'm the jailor. I protted Erandorr night 1 and then prpl night 2. This makes prpl 95% town (the only chance he's not is that I was roleblocked by him). Last night I chose to prot sandro. This either means sandro is the scum, or sandro was hit by Meapak. I don't believe I was roleblocked when I checked prpl because he called me out on my soft blue claim in my first post (though I never asked him how he knew because I was afraid other people would catch onto me being blue if I mentioned it) and since he caught it I'm sure he would have killed me instead if he was scum. So, yeah, prpl pretty much has to be town, it's sandro or meapak. I'll come back with more thoughts later. | ||
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On November 24 2011 10:59 prplhz wrote: On Meapak_Ziphh Right so before Mr. Wiggles died he made this post about some Palmar, me, and more importantly, Meapak_Ziphh. I am saying "scum does not want scum to die on day, so Mr. Wiggles wouldn't push for another scum when he's on the chopping block, because this would mean that scum would die". People are saying "lol haven't u herd about distancing?". I understand the concept but this is not what Mr. Wiggles was doing, he was actually trying to get Meapak_Ziphh. If you don't trust me, then trust Palmar who said it looked like a genuine push in the next post. Now you can say "but this is still all just distancing." but if they had already decided that the lynch was going to be between them, that one of them would have to die, then why the hell didn't Meapak_Ziphh just move his vote over to Mr. Wiggles? If, at this point in the game, they had already decided to distance themselves from each other then why the hell didn't Meapak_Ziphh distance himself from Mr. Wiggles? Meapak_Ziphh's play this game hasn't been totally impressive, but it is very hard to do something impressive in a game this small. He voted hiro protagonist because hiro protagonist was way scummier. I totally agree with him on this actually, the amount of scummyness that hiro protagonist had displayed at this point was way bigger than what Mr. Wiggles had done, but in the light of what you should expect from those players Mr. Wiggles was still the scummier. I don't expect Meapak_Ziphh to know this I don't think he's ever thought very hard about hiro protagonist before. He also very subtly and offhandedly points out very important points throughout the game, but not for the purpose of bringing them up later as a defense or anything. I think this is very townie of him. I had more but ... On wherebugsgo Oh shit it's almost deadline. Well he's scum and I have some points but I can't post them lol. I'll post if I'm still alive in 5 mins. Not only is wherebugsgo the last scum, he's also the role blocker. If there is a role cop and he didn't claim then the guy is a moron, and nobody here is a moron so we can rule that out. This makes this a 2of3 setup. If there is a jailer out there and he didn't claim yet, that's is slightly more understandable, but it is still useless and I think it's very unlikely. This makes this a 2of2 setup. I'd say that there is a 98% chance that town has a doc left and no other blues. wherebugsgo probably knew this way before I even said anything. I think he has a good chance of pulling off a shot tonight though it all comes down to WIFOM. I think he's been enjoying this game so far, keeping me alive knowing that he's scum but not being able to do anything about it like a modern day Cassandra. If I'm not alive tomorrow, which is very likely as nobody would protect me but WIFOM, please please don't make the lynch between you two Meapak_Ziphh and sandroba. Lynch wherebugsgo. The last scum is the roleblocker, what's your point? Either I'm the only blue (the jailkeeper) or there's a doctor/cop with me. In either case, the last scum is between Meapak and Sandro. I really don't know why you still think I'm scum. You don't have a case, and you just keep reiterating that you think I'm scum without actually saying why. You say that scum wouldn't bus, but you don't address the fact that I was one of the first (if not the first? I don't remember) to call out wiggles on his shitty first post. I was fine with hiro/wiggles day 1, I just chose to vote the wrong person that day. I was wrong, and that doesn't mean I am scum. It just means I was wrong. Then, I believe you were the only one who picked up on the blue claim that I seeded in my posts. Were you not? I recall you saying something about it. I ignored it because I didn't want to draw attention to myself. I knew from the start that I would only be of use if I lived to the end. Unfortunately, I chose Erandorr over Palmar (the choice was a close one) for night 1 and Palmar ended up dying. Oh well. For the townie between Meapak/sandro: WBG's Awesome Guide to Catching Scum! I highlighted my own name blue in the first post I made. Literally right at the top. On November 17 2011 17:32 wherebugsgo wrote: also chaoser isn't a doctor, he's secretly a brutal serial killer! + Show Spoiler + jk jk jk :p I said he isn't a doctor, and then in the spoiler said "jk jk jk". This is a breadcrumb. JK=jailkeeper. On November 17 2011 17:30 wherebugsgo wrote: At any rate I think this game is locked in. We shouldn't be cocky though, it certainly is still possible we can lose. Locked in=another jailkeeper breadcrumb. On November 18 2011 15:26 wherebugsgo wrote: Jailkeeper roleblocks too -_- also So we should treat any roleblock claims as liars unless they claim cop as well. I shot down Meapak's idea of people calling roleblocks almost instantly after he posted it. Why? Because I'm a jailkeeper. Then note I mentioned Erandorr several times early that day, asking for his thoughts, mentioning how other than him nothing was happening. | ||
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No blues have flipped yet, from scum perspective it's still equally likely for all setup combinations to be possible. | ||
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If the blue claims he essentially just becomes a vanilla townie the rest of the way. If he found the scum it's game over but if he found a townie the scum basically will just shoot the townie and then roleblock the blue, gg and only vanilla townies left unless you luck out and there's another protective blue. Then even if there is another protective blue he has to figure out who to protect. Use your brain prpl and stop spouting nonsense. | ||
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I could've chosen hiro or jaybrundage n1, true, but I was more concerned with saving n1 than confirming. With Erandorr I could do both (his play was really different this game) I realized my mistake later. And yes, I've not been as aggressive because I've been getting a lot of vibes from players this game (like Erandorr, prpl, Palmar, even hiro) that are telling me my type of play isn't conducive to good town atmosphere. I didn't want to get shot early, or worse lynched because of my play, and I have also been unsure of who is scum all game. My gut hasn't been agreeing with my brain and that makes me pause before posting. In this regard I've played very similarly to XLV. On day 1 in XLV I saw how Palmar was scummy but I was on the wrong end of the lynch. I continually pushed townies for lynch and then town turned around and said, yeah you're scum and lynched me. The difference here is that in XLV I just went for it anyway and attacked with confidence. In this game I have had very little confidence, and it's shown. | ||
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Sandro didn't fake-CC me, sandro has been playing very town-like all game, sandro hammered wiggles. He's been my strongest town read since the end of day 1. Last night Meapak said this: On November 23 2011 11:47 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: dammit Well my guess is prplhz or sandroba will die tonight. WBG it's between you and I. I guess I was an idiot trusting you but at least we've still got one more shot to win. Which means Meapak had the idea of siding with prpl and killing me already before the day began. So, I've been wrong all game about Meapak, not the other way around. He's scum. ##vote Meapak_Ziph | ||
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Wtf? If I was scum why wouldn't I just have shot prpl last night? That would be 100 times easier than trying to pull a fake claim of jailor when someone CCs me. Prpl claiming doctor does not make me confirmed, true, but I don't become scum because of it. Use your brain, I'm not that good at scum. I chose badly n1. I attest to that. I wasn't thinking very much about it until the next night, really. I figured I'd try to confirm Erandorr instead of use my role strictly offensively or defensively because I thought back to last mini where GM suggested using the jailor role offensively. I thought it was a dumb idea both times but I didn't think about how we'd already killed one scum. I also doubted scum would kill Erandorr (I was wrong) so he'd be a good check for confirmed town. I used similar logic for prpl. I should've gone for jay/hiro, but I didn't. I'm dumb. Something about prpl was bothering me so I went for him n2. Turns out he's blue, I was right, something about his play was different because of that. Why do you think I kept brushing him off on day 2? If I were scum I would've attacked him. That's what I do when people suspect me as scum. It's because I'm generally confident I can out argue them. Sandro, you're one of those players I know I can't fool nor outargue. So the fact that you're saying I'm scum based on prpl claiming doctor is surprising. It's shocking. It's completely illogical, since prpl claiming doctor doesn't actually do anything. Yeah, it makes me not 100% confirmed. But as scum why the hell would I take such a massive risk? If I were scum prpl could have been cop or jailor too, and visited me last night. One of you could have been jailor/cop and visited me last night. If I were scum they BOTH could have existed. As scum breadcrumbing jailkeeper 3 days in advance just to claim is ludicrous. | ||
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On November 24 2011 11:32 prplhz wrote: Man, I'm going to look like a fool if wherebugsgo actually is town, but in that case he played like crap. If he is scum he played rather well. What do you think is more likely? Also, I just wrote a bunch of stuff it would be sweet if any of you guys have time to comment on it. Thank you. -_- Didn't notice this before but yeah, if you think I've played bad then yeah lol I've played reallyy bad. I'm sorry :/ even now I'm confused because sandro's being dumb too and Meapak has disappeared. It's thanksgiving though, I guess we need to wait. | ||
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On November 25 2011 04:55 sandroba wrote: Yeah, the fact that you would fake claim at this spot does surprise me, but considering the discussion we had on the previous game I think you are trying to prove a point and you planned to do so since early on. Your night actions make absolutely no sense. From your perspective it was damn near obvious that either me or palmar would get shot night 1. Errandor was not nearly a high priority person to protect. From your perspective the obvious choice would be for me/palmar defensively or hiro/jay/mz offensivelly. Instead you go for errandor then prplhz. Other than that it was the most terrible use of jailer role in that spot with one scum left. I said day 2 how it would be the optimal way of using it, but I'm sure you would have thought of it on your own day 1. You could have gone for people you deemed suspicious and confirm one of them with very high odds and save town from mislynching one of them. Instead you chose to completely waste your role. I simply can't believe you can play so bad having a role that I deemed auto win for town after day1 scum lynch. If you are somehow town and used your role this poorly accept the fact that you lost town this game. However I'm pretty sure you would not play so poorly having such a powerful role with 1 scum down. So again, you're ignoring everything because you think I'm trying to prove a point? This is terrible argumentation and you know it. I wasn't sure of anything d1, I told you that already. I also said, again, I thought about going for Palmar or Erandorr. It was a very close choice but for whatever stupid reason I thought I would magically block a scum hit if I went for Erandorr. When Palmar flipped I realized I was a moron. I did the dumb thing again and didn't go for hiro the next night, I went for prpl. It was based on the same reason I went for Erandorr (he's been playing differently). That was pretty dumb too, in hindsight, since now we know he's the doctor. Your argument comes down to this: 1. I fake claimed jailkeeper at the start of day 4 after breadcrumbing my role and both of my checks multiple times every day cycle before. 2. I fake claimed jailkeeper as scum from a perspective where at least one person would CC me for sure. How does this make sense? 3. I used my role dumbly, and even for me that's dumb so I'm scum (lol) 4. prpl claiming doctor makes me scum. Sandro stop being dumb. If you lynch me and town loses, it won't be entirely my fault this time (like it was in XLV). The burden will also be on you, since you're ignoring a mountain of evidence to call me scum just on the basis that I am dumb. Yeah, I'm dumb. I've been dumb. That doesn't make me scum in the least, it just makes me dumb. | ||
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I intended on posting before the daypost (but I was in a LoL match, hahaha) that if I died you and prpl were confirmed town and Meapak was scum. I knew that if I lived, it didn't matter which one of you I picked to block, the result would be the same. Either I die and you're confirmed town (or if I chose Meapak he's confirmed town) except in the case of roleblock, or I live and one of you two is scum. Do you not see that? I figured scum would not shoot prpl because they can use prpl to mislynch me. He's been going after me for a while and I haven't been able to say "yo prpl I know you're town cause I'm jailor stop tunneling me" because doing so would reveal my role and I would die. Instead I kept telling him to stop being dumb and wasting time. I wouldn't do that if I was scum, I'd beat the shit out of him because I'm 90% sure I'd win over prpl in an argument. Lastly, you're calling this a stunt and saying I'm trying to prove something?!?! this makes me scum? rofl. | ||
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Since Meapak claimed vanilla after you I'm unsure again because I fully expected one of you to CC me. I suppose from either of your perspectives if one of you is scum then it would be a risk to claim after I did, since it was possible I was the only one, or that prpl could be blue too. In that case it makes sense you both would just claim vanilla and attack the other one. Last night I was leaning more toward Meapak being town because I found it weird that you were the last vote on Wiggles, you said very little all day 1 and day 2, and you even pointed out your own lack of activity. I also had agreed with most of what Meapak had done, since obviously I shared most of his views. On daybreak when you claimed vanilla I thought Meapak was more likely to be scum because optimally for scum in that situation would be to wait till everyone posts and then counterclaim any blue who claims. Meapak didn't CC though, he just claimed vanilla. Now he's gone. So there's my confusion. I'm back to square one, either of you could be scum. | ||
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prpl is convinced I'm scum so it really doesn't matter. Even if we no lynch neither of you would ever shoot me, we'd be back in this same situation tomorrow with prpl dead. You RB me, shoot prpl, back to square one. I'm going to think this over for a bit. I am literally torn 50/50 between Meapak and sandro right now. I'll hopefully be done rereading again in about 10-20 minutes (I'm on page 22). | ||
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On November 22 2011 17:54 sandroba wrote: The thing is prpl, wbg is my least likely suspect of being scum after you, based on behavior alone. I already pointed out why I don't think he is scum. I'd rather take my chances with hiro today. Everyone seems very concerned about who to lynch today and people are strugling to make the right choice. Everyone besides hiro. That's since day 1, he only pops in right before the lynch and votes. He is prob the last scum, since everybody else has more things pointing to them being town. ##Vote: Hiro Protagonist okay this post on page 23 did it for me. Sandro goes from me being the least likely suspect for being scum after prpl, to me being scum today. I agree with what Meapak has said about sandro; they are all true and those are things I've thought as well. I just haven't had the confidence to believe in them this game. In addition, Meapak hasn't done anything overtly scummy beyond vote hiro day 1, and I'm guilty of that myself. We both messed up day 1 and I've otherwise thought Meapak has played very town-like. I don't think his play has been sub-par at all. Sandro's play has just been kinda off. He has had bad reads all after day 1. He's using really bad logic today to try to lynch me, disbelieving my claim JUST because prpl claimed doctor and on the assumption that I'm trying to prove something (rofl). If you need to use something personal like that from last game then why make the argument at all? Prpl claiming doctor doesn't make me scum, and saying that I'm trying to prove something doesn't make me scum either. He also delayed till the last possible moment on day 1 to hammer wiggles. He waited until it was obvious wiggles would die, since he probably knew Meapak and I would not let a no-lynch happen on day 1. So he hammered wiggles to give himself a lot of town cred. As Meapak said, after that he pretty much disappeared for quite a while. prpl, this lynch comes down to you. I know you think I'm scum, but you're wrong. You need to seriously rethink everything right now, since most of what you have said is wrong. You said that as scum I would know that the jailor doesn't exist, that's false. You said that a blue would've claimed before now, that's also false. You've said that I'm scum because I was on the wrong side of the lynch day 1, that's also false, by definition, since at least one of Meapak/me cannot be scum. If you think I'm scum for that reason then I really question why you don't have a suspicion of Meapak. Look at the evidence. If you actually believe I'm scum fake claiming jailkeeper after breadcrumbing for 3 days straight then I really don't know what to tell you. ##unvote Meapak Ziphh ##vote sandroba I'd be completely fine with shortening the day to 24 hours, btw. I think I'm the only American left since decon is replacing Meapak, and I have no thanksgiving plans. | ||
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That's just shedding doubt, and that shows you're acting from a scum agenda. If what you say is true, that it wasn't prpl's claim that made me scum, why did you use it in your argument for me being scum? I've gone over multiple times that I made a mistake in my n1 action. I stand by my n2 action because there's no way I could've confirmed prpl otherwise. He caught me on the blue slip and I was afraid that if he was scum he'd shoot me. So I jailed him and turned out he was town. Now you're arguing that scum paid no attention to my breadcrumbs. Breadcrumbs are only useful in the case someone dies. It's hard to find a breadcrumb unless you know what to look for, that's by definition how breadcrumbs work. If I'd died n2 or n3 the townies would've gone back to look for breadcrumbs. I breadcrumbed that I had checked Erandorr and prpl, by the way I called them townies despite having no real reason to think so. I also on one occasion baited (I think it was Meapak, specifically) by seeing what people thought of prpl. If I were scum don't you think I would just take the easy route of saying "I've targetted sandro every night"? In that case all I would have to do today as scum is say prpl is dumb town, sandro is town woot let's lynch meapak. Instead, you have this situation which can only be true if I am town. I breadcrumbed not only my role, but my checks. Your argument is that I faked them in anticipation of doing a fake claim just to do a fake claim 3 days in advance because I have a notion that TL towns will believe claims blindly. That's not true. You even go so far as to use the end game result of last game to try and prove this. The point of last game was NOT that TL towns believe claims. The point of last game was that you lynch confirmed liars. GM was a confirmed liar, the town didn't actually believe his claim. Town knew he wasn't a medic because the medic flipped. The fact that you're trying to say now that the post-game discussion somehow applies here is quite funny and very revealing of your alignment. | ||
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He had an interesting quote of my first post in which he just attacked everything despite agreeing with over half of it. I found that weird, like he was just simply trying to undermine my credibility. Since I leaned town on Palmar I wanted to see if he was right about Erandorr being scum. That ultimately is why I switched to Erandorr over trying to protect Palmar. When the hit went through I immediately thought that jay/hiro had to be scum. Then prpl said something that tipped me off, so I figured I'd check him the next night. He came back town too so I figured it had to be hiro. I was wrong every single time. Oh well. | ||
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On November 25 2011 07:28 sandroba wrote: No, when prpl didn't cc you on the spot I assumed he was vanilla. You couldn't have said you jailed me every night because that would be an even more absurd use of a role, downright impossible to believe. You are saying that you have absolutely no reads this game so far, since you vote both hiro and jay, had no reason to believe errandor was town and had to confirm prpl which by reading the thread should be confirmed by default. Occam's Razor. Why would saying jailing you every night as scum be absurd? You could just say they were trying to protect you because you're the best town player here! Hell, that's what the doctor does, right? So if you simply use the jailor like a doctor that is actually a very good use of the role. The only way it fails and you die is if scum correctly RBs the jailkeeper. I gave you why I targetted Erandorr. It made sense at the time. I should've chosen hiro or jay, but hindsight is 20/20 and in hindsight I'm dumb. I also gave you why I targetted prpl. No one is "obv town." He was attacking me on day 2 for being scummy, and he caught my blue slip. A player is pushing a mislynch with shitty logic and you say it's obvious he was town? Then once it was openly clear that jay was doing very scummy stuff he jumped on the jay bandwagon. He also kept denying that Palmar could have been right that scum would bus on day 1. All of those reasons led me to jailing prpl on n2, and I stand by all of those reasons. Call me dumb all you want if you think my night 1 action was dumb, since in hindsight it was, but my n2 action definitely was not and you attacking me for that is very revealing of your alignment. | ||
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On November 16 2011 09:02 wherebugsgo wrote: Mr. Wiggles, I don't believe I've ever seen you play town. Nonetheless, your first post is moronic. You're obviously not new, and I assume you have a functioning cerebral cortex. Thus, I think you should stop distracting town with a brainless question and an equally brainless answer to your own question. Next time, ask people what their favorite color is, because I'm sure that'll be more relevant to finding scum than what you posted. On November 25 2011 07:32 sandroba wrote: Are you insane decon? I pointed out why wiggles was suspicious before anyone else did. The I moved the discussion to wiggles and palmar is the one who agrees with me. Have you read my posts and do you think wbg's night actions are solid? Sandro you're a liar. I was the first one to point it out, not you. | ||
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PRPL WHERE THE FUCK ARE YOU | ||
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What is different about that situation than this one? The fact that prpl can't vote and you only need 2 for majority? | ||
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We can no lynch for all I care. It's not going to do anything except delay. | ||
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wherebugsgo
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On November 24 2011 11:35 wherebugsgo wrote: For the townie between Meapak/sandro: I highlighted my own name blue in the first post I made. Literally right at the top. I said he isn't a doctor, and then in the spoiler said "jk jk jk". This is a breadcrumb. JK=jailkeeper. Locked in=another jailkeeper breadcrumb. I shot down Meapak's idea of people calling roleblocks almost instantly after he posted it. Why? Because I'm a jailkeeper. Then note I mentioned Erandorr several times early that day, asking for his thoughts, mentioning how other than him nothing was happening. Prpl, my breadcrumbs are in the quote above. They're nested quotes. My breadcrumb that I had visited Erandorr: On November 19 2011 08:01 wherebugsgo wrote: Lastly, if I was trying to give Wiggles credit and then trying to draw Erandorr into the lynch conversation, why is it that I have not pushed Erandorr to be lynched? I don't find Erandorr suspicious, despite the fact that he agreed with my argument on hiro but attacked it on the grounds that he didn't like me. Point being, when do I leave someone alone when I am town for using bad logic to attack me? I never do that, regardless of me being town or scum. Think about it, I get accused of OMGUS all the time, it's because when people use bad logic to attack me and I'm town I think they could be scum. In this case I didn't back off him just because (even though I didn't explicitly state the reasons). This was a hint that I knew more than you guys; I had visited him. I've caught several scum that way in the past, it's not always reliable, but Erandorr was playing really differently. On November 20 2011 08:07 wherebugsgo wrote: There is nothing to suggest that hiro is looking for townies any more than he is looking for scum. I don't know how you can come to this conclusion when hiro hasn't even said anything about it himself. Second, when the hell have you seen hiro play scum? How would you know how he would play scum, or what kind of confidence he would have as either alignment? And I don't believe I complained that it contained no scum reads. He called meapak scum, but he didn't call me scum. That's what I pointed out. I pointed out the fact that he voted me despite never calling me scum. He said he thought meapak was red, so my concern was the disconnect between his thoughts and his vote. Lastly, I wouldn't point out something like that as scum about my own scumbuddy before anyone else noticed it. That's dumb, since it wouldn't further my win condition. If I were scum with Wiggles I would have either bussed him when it was apparent he was going to die or I would have destroyed the thread in my attempt to cover it up and distract you guys. I'm not afraid of causing chaos when I'm mafia, because I know I can get away with it if I have to. And, what's your point? I was the first to point out something important about wiggles, but your excuse is that it would've been figured out anyway, so I'm scum? Your logic makes no sense. I thought wiggles was scummy but hiro was scummier. So I voted hiro. You claim to adhere to Occam's Razor but you ignore the simplest explanation when it's staring you in the face. If what you think Wiggles did was effort, then I really have to question what you are talking about. Wiggles rolled over and died, he did next to nothing to save himself. If you think he put a lot of effort into his case on Meapak then I don't really know if you're reading the same game I am. Also, when and where did Palmar say to ignore what he said during the night? He died that night, he certainly couldn't have said it in retrospect unless I missed something. What? Your defense is that you don't push lynches hard, so...then what? lol. You should have no fear of pushing a case if you're town, your apprehension is what is setting me off. I don't understand why you would be apprehensive when I know as town you push ideas very strongly. Your ideas might not always make sense but you don't wait around for people to agree with you before pushing them, normally. I disagree with you, sandroba wouldn't be a terrible choice for a scum to attack. He's not the best and I agree with you on that; so then why would we consider optimal cases? Since jay is new he's not going to play optimally regardless of his alignment. It doesn't make much sense to push sandro from either alignment but it makes more sense from a scum perspective. Yes, sandro hammered wiggles, but look at how jay keeps talking about Palmar's idea that it's hindering our thought process to eliminate the possibility scum would bus. This big post on that day, day 2, was the big "?" for me. I was beginning to doubt your townieness. I was having second thoughts about Jay, but in the end he was way more scummy. My second choice on day 2 was you, but I never explicitly stated this. When I have scumreads I tend to do this because I can trap scum that way. If I set them off early then they will kill me. So I figured I'd check you that night and if the kill still went through then we'd lynch hiro. On November 20 2011 08:11 wherebugsgo wrote: We lynch Jay, and if he flips town we brush that off and reevaluate again. We'll probably need to look hard at who might have considered bussing scum, since if Jay is not scum, and since I think Meapak is pretty town, scum would probably be in the prpl/Erandorr/hiro/sandro side. One thing I do kind of subconsciously is list my best scumread first in a list. The rest of the list tends to be arbitrary but my best read is nearly always listed first. You are listed first here. On November 20 2011 08:19 wherebugsgo wrote: I value Erandorr's opinion here because he's a confirmed town to me. Now look at my first post the next day, after you called me scum and Erandorr had died: On November 21 2011 14:24 wherebugsgo wrote: Prpl I'd strongly suggest that you build a case, since I really can't say anything other than "I'm not scum" at this point. I've already addressed your earlier points and defending myself will be a further waste of time today. I'll answer any questions you have, but if you are town (which think you are) then you should weigh in on Meapak/hiro. I tell you that defending myself will be a waste of time. I tell you that I'll answer any questions you have. I am completely complacent. I tell you that I believe you are town and that you should focus on Meapak/hiro. This is almost a complete 180 from the previous day/night when I began attacking you and telling you that you didn't make sense. After jay flipped town I wanted to kill you. Then my check returned negative so I said, okay, let's go for hiro. On November 22 2011 09:58 wherebugsgo wrote: Meapak what do you think of prpl? Baiting. I didn't ask if Meapak thought you were scum. I could have easily phrased it that way if I wanted to. On November 22 2011 10:27 wherebugsgo wrote: prpl you just keep saying I'm scummy and your case is terrible. You're wasting our time right now. Again, I don't attack you based on your bad logic even though I could. In fact, in any other situation, whether as scum or regular town, I probably would. But instead I tell you that you're wasting time. On November 23 2011 14:30 wherebugsgo wrote: prpl can you explain the point of that post? You said all that stuff about sandro only to call him town at the end rofl This is like the fourth or fifth time I address you and I don't attack you. Didn't you find it weird that I was attacking you on day 2 and then suddenly I just stopped? I went from "dude I feel weird about you and none of this makes sense" to "stop wasting our time, I'm not scum." Every single time I said something like that I was trying to telegraph to you that I was blue with a town check on you. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
You're both scummy for almost opposite reasons. (ofc not decon particularly, it's all what Meapak did lol) | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Obviously asking sandro or decon will get them to simply attack each other. I need your input on this. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
If we ask one of decon/sandro they just attack the other and there's no real progress. If I ask you, you just say "pick one." Right now my brain says sandro is not scum anymore. 12 hours ago it was saying sandro IS scum. In 3 hours will it think the same? god damn. If you prefer Meapak/decon, explain. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
I take it you think that Meapak was distancing? | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
I guess he didn't come up with it or something, who knows. Everything else makes more sense now from the perspective that Meapak was scum than sandro. Sandro hammered wiggles, which you might think was a bus, but he was influential in getting Wiggles on the lynch candidacy for day 1, so that pretty much rules out a bus. Meapak all game has been soft FoSing me despite having the exact same reads as me, and that has been making me feel strange. It makes some sense but at the same time it's almost like he was setting me up for the fall this entire time. Now of course he couldn't do that because I claimed jailor, so he switched off me into the only thing left that makes sense, attacking sandro. Okay. I'm good with that. Let's lynch decon and win this game. ##unvote ##vote deconduo. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Now we just wait till the flip. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On November 26 2011 06:57 prplhz wrote: I am very uncomfortable with you listening to me. We all know that you're jailer now, you can start being KICKASS again, you can't hide behind your "Oh I'm trying to not attract any scum attention because then maybe they'll kill me and I'm blue!" anymore. I'm not really the best townie around and I can mention 5 things I missed on those points I just made, and it would surprise me if wherebugsgo couldn't mention 500 things more. If deconduo and sandroba find out that they'd rather lynch wherebugsgo I'm still all for that, lol. Also, this has been a very fun game. It's really hard to tie scum to somebody else when he dies night1. I think we wasted 2 lynches just blindly following sandroba on his crusade against newer players. These things have left us in a pretty hard situation here at mylo. lol look at decon now. he's voting me rofl. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
He just said less than 12 hours ago that my claim was really solid and believable, and that sandro was sure scum. Now within an instant of me changing my mind he enters the thread and says he's voting me because he can't convince you that sandro is scum. You realize how bad that is? | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On November 26 2011 07:22 deconduo wrote: I have 2 choices: -I die -You die I know I'm town. I THINK you're town, but I have no way of knowing. 5% chance to win is better than 0% The fact that you're using this false dichotomy is hilarious. Did you completely forget about the choice you had like an hour ago, to convince us sandro is scum? Now you're not even trying to convince us sandro is scum, you're trying to convince sandro that I'm scum, since you know prpl will jump on that lynch faster than you can say "derp." Thanks for making my job easy, now I'm 100% sure you're scum. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
sorry prpl lolololol | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
 made my job so hard lol | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
I couldn't force a lynch of sandro or decon if I didn't claim. If anyone CCed me, I would've instantly pushed their lynch. I knew I could outargue them. I knew the likelihood of there being 2 blues was almost nonexistent. I breadcrumbed in advance because jailor was the only role I knew I could argue for and make it useful even if I had no useful information on the decisive day. It wasn't a useless claim. Without the claim it would've been very gimmicky and hard for me to outargue Meapak. Prpl was on Meapak's side and I couldn't afford having 2 auto votes on me. Sandro could easily at that point decide to attack me. With the claim I put town in a tough spot. I knew prpl would probably still attack me but I knew that if I claimed correctly the argument would eventually come down to sandro+meapak. Also I held my shot on n3, I roleblocked prpl two nights in a row because I thought he was blue. Also on n3 because I knew the argument had to come down between sandro+meapak I figured if either of them is blue it didn't matter so I roleblocked prpl again. I had the best blue read on him after I shot Erandorr. I shot Palmar n1 because he was making sense, but also because I wanted to shift suspicion away from me+Meapak onto people who would've "bussed" wiggles. Chose to roleblock Erandorr because he was playing very differently and so I thought he was blue. N2 I shot Erandorr and RBed prpl for the same reasons, basically. Those two were the only ones giving me a blue vibe so I only focused on them. Sandro and meapak were never really threats because they believed I was town. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Everyone needs to do it, not only scum or town. You reevaluate regardless of the flip. Obviously in this game if hiro flipped scum it wouldn't be necessary. Although I think that first quoted line was said day 1, where it didn't matter if hiro flipped town or scum. We'd have to reevaluate, always. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
What I said happened was actually 100% true. I was planning on saying that prpl was confirmed town and sandro was confirmed town if I died, and that the players would see why if I flipped. Instead, I was in a LoL game that lasted too long and I showed up in the thread at 6:05. I actually hadn't thought about who I would've protected if I was the real jailor, so I went with my reads of "who made sense" and when. Day 1 it was actually Palmar who was making more sense than Erandorr, but I switched it around because obviously Palmar died. (oops lol) Then I said my n2 target was prpl because I thought I could make the most valid argument for him being scummy out of the remaining two players. Only about 5 seconds after I posted did I realize I could've just said I protted sandro every night. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
playing scum is so entertaining. Although it must be frustrating to be misled over and over haha. This game was like a rollercoaster, at times I felt I was really close to being found. Day 4 was the most nerve-wracking for me, I kept f5ing to see if someone had posted something new. Ultimately I had no idea who would get lynched, I just went with the flow. | ||
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