|
Erandorr was scummy to Palmar and because of what Wiggles said about him I wanted to see if he was the other scum. I figured he's either blue or red, probably blue, so I debated between going for Erandorr or Palmar n1 and I chose Erandorr. Dumb decision in the end since Erandorr was neither red nor blue and scum shot him n2 and not n1. So n2 I decided okay let me focus on someone who scum won't kill. I chose prpl.
I could've chosen hiro or jaybrundage n1, true, but I was more concerned with saving n1 than confirming. With Erandorr I could do both (his play was really different this game)
I realized my mistake later. And yes, I've not been as aggressive because I've been getting a lot of vibes from players this game (like Erandorr, prpl, Palmar, even hiro) that are telling me my type of play isn't conducive to good town atmosphere. I didn't want to get shot early, or worse lynched because of my play, and I have also been unsure of who is scum all game. My gut hasn't been agreeing with my brain and that makes me pause before posting.
In this regard I've played very similarly to XLV. On day 1 in XLV I saw how Palmar was scummy but I was on the wrong end of the lynch. I continually pushed townies for lynch and then town turned around and said, yeah you're scum and lynched me. The difference here is that in XLV I just went for it anyway and attacked with confidence. In this game I have had very little confidence, and it's shown.
|
Also I'm far more suspicious of Meapak than sandro atm. I think the scum in this situation would wait till everyone has responded to come up with a counterclaim that makes sense. I had this idea going in, and I wanted to see who would respond first.
Sandro didn't fake-CC me, sandro has been playing very town-like all game, sandro hammered wiggles. He's been my strongest town read since the end of day 1. Last night Meapak said this:
On November 23 2011 11:47 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
dammit
Well my guess is prplhz or sandroba will die tonight. WBG it's between you and I. I guess I was an idiot trusting you but at least we've still got one more shot to win.
Which means Meapak had the idea of siding with prpl and killing me already before the day began.
So, I've been wrong all game about Meapak, not the other way around. He's scum.
##vote Meapak_Ziph
|
So sandro you're saying I fake breadcrumbed jailor on day 1, night 1, AND day 2, then kept dropping hints that I thought both Erandorr and prpl were confirmed town because I wanted to fool you?
Wtf? If I was scum why wouldn't I just have shot prpl last night? That would be 100 times easier than trying to pull a fake claim of jailor when someone CCs me. Prpl claiming doctor does not make me confirmed, true, but I don't become scum because of it. Use your brain, I'm not that good at scum.
I chose badly n1. I attest to that. I wasn't thinking very much about it until the next night, really. I figured I'd try to confirm Erandorr instead of use my role strictly offensively or defensively because I thought back to last mini where GM suggested using the jailor role offensively. I thought it was a dumb idea both times but I didn't think about how we'd already killed one scum. I also doubted scum would kill Erandorr (I was wrong) so he'd be a good check for confirmed town. I used similar logic for prpl. I should've gone for jay/hiro, but I didn't. I'm dumb.
Something about prpl was bothering me so I went for him n2. Turns out he's blue, I was right, something about his play was different because of that. Why do you think I kept brushing him off on day 2? If I were scum I would've attacked him. That's what I do when people suspect me as scum. It's because I'm generally confident I can out argue them.
Sandro, you're one of those players I know I can't fool nor outargue. So the fact that you're saying I'm scum based on prpl claiming doctor is surprising. It's shocking. It's completely illogical, since prpl claiming doctor doesn't actually do anything. Yeah, it makes me not 100% confirmed. But as scum why the hell would I take such a massive risk? If I were scum prpl could have been cop or jailor too, and visited me last night. One of you could have been jailor/cop and visited me last night. If I were scum they BOTH could have existed. As scum breadcrumbing jailkeeper 3 days in advance just to claim is ludicrous.
|
On November 24 2011 11:32 prplhz wrote:
Man, I'm going to look like a fool if wherebugsgo actually is town, but in that case he played like crap. If he is scum he played rather well. What do you think is more likely?
Also, I just wrote a bunch of stuff it would be sweet if any of you guys have time to comment on it. Thank you.
-_-
Didn't notice this before but yeah, if you think I've played bad then yeah lol I've played reallyy bad.
I'm sorry :/ even now I'm confused because sandro's being dumb too and Meapak has disappeared. It's thanksgiving though, I guess we need to wait.
|
On November 25 2011 04:55 sandroba wrote:
Yeah, the fact that you would fake claim at this spot does surprise me, but considering the discussion we had on the previous game I think you are trying to prove a point and you planned to do so since early on. Your night actions make absolutely no sense. From your perspective it was damn near obvious that either me or palmar would get shot night 1. Errandor was not nearly a high priority person to protect. From your perspective the obvious choice would be for me/palmar defensively or hiro/jay/mz offensivelly. Instead you go for errandor then prplhz. Other than that it was the most terrible use of jailer role in that spot with one scum left. I said day 2 how it would be the optimal way of using it, but I'm sure you would have thought of it on your own day 1. You could have gone for people you deemed suspicious and confirm one of them with very high odds and save town from mislynching one of them. Instead you chose to completely waste your role. I simply can't believe you can play so bad having a role that I deemed auto win for town after day1 scum lynch. If you are somehow town and used your role this poorly accept the fact that you lost town this game. However I'm pretty sure you would not play so poorly having such a powerful role with 1 scum down.
So again, you're ignoring everything because you think I'm trying to prove a point?
This is terrible argumentation and you know it. I wasn't sure of anything d1, I told you that already. I also said, again, I thought about going for Palmar or Erandorr. It was a very close choice but for whatever stupid reason I thought I would magically block a scum hit if I went for Erandorr. When Palmar flipped I realized I was a moron. I did the dumb thing again and didn't go for hiro the next night, I went for prpl. It was based on the same reason I went for Erandorr (he's been playing differently). That was pretty dumb too, in hindsight, since now we know he's the doctor.
Your argument comes down to this:
1. I fake claimed jailkeeper at the start of day 4 after breadcrumbing my role and both of my checks multiple times every day cycle before.
2. I fake claimed jailkeeper as scum from a perspective where at least one person would CC me for sure. How does this make sense?
3. I used my role dumbly, and even for me that's dumb so I'm scum (lol)
4. prpl claiming doctor makes me scum.
Sandro stop being dumb. If you lynch me and town loses, it won't be entirely my fault this time (like it was in XLV). The burden will also be on you, since you're ignoring a mountain of evidence to call me scum just on the basis that I am dumb. Yeah, I'm dumb. I've been dumb. That doesn't make me scum in the least, it just makes me dumb.
|
Actually I picked you because I was not sure which one of you was scum.
I intended on posting before the daypost (but I was in a LoL match, hahaha) that if I died you and prpl were confirmed town and Meapak was scum. I knew that if I lived, it didn't matter which one of you I picked to block, the result would be the same. Either I die and you're confirmed town (or if I chose Meapak he's confirmed town) except in the case of roleblock, or I live and one of you two is scum.
Do you not see that? I figured scum would not shoot prpl because they can use prpl to mislynch me. He's been going after me for a while and I haven't been able to say "yo prpl I know you're town cause I'm jailor stop tunneling me" because doing so would reveal my role and I would die. Instead I kept telling him to stop being dumb and wasting time. I wouldn't do that if I was scum, I'd beat the shit out of him because I'm 90% sure I'd win over prpl in an argument.
Lastly, you're calling this a stunt and saying I'm trying to prove something?!?! this makes me scum? rofl.
|
I also realized that if scum correctly knew I was blue then they could roleblock me, which made things even muddier for me than they already were.
|
after rereading last night, yes.
Since Meapak claimed vanilla after you I'm unsure again because I fully expected one of you to CC me. I suppose from either of your perspectives if one of you is scum then it would be a risk to claim after I did, since it was possible I was the only one, or that prpl could be blue too. In that case it makes sense you both would just claim vanilla and attack the other one.
Last night I was leaning more toward Meapak being town because I found it weird that you were the last vote on Wiggles, you said very little all day 1 and day 2, and you even pointed out your own lack of activity. I also had agreed with most of what Meapak had done, since obviously I shared most of his views.
On daybreak when you claimed vanilla I thought Meapak was more likely to be scum because optimally for scum in that situation would be to wait till everyone posts and then counterclaim any blue who claims. Meapak didn't CC though, he just claimed vanilla. Now he's gone.
So there's my confusion. I'm back to square one, either of you could be scum.
|
actually it all comes down to prpl.
prpl is convinced I'm scum so it really doesn't matter.
Even if we no lynch neither of you would ever shoot me, we'd be back in this same situation tomorrow with prpl dead. You RB me, shoot prpl, back to square one.
I'm going to think this over for a bit. I am literally torn 50/50 between Meapak and sandro right now. I'll hopefully be done rereading again in about 10-20 minutes (I'm on page 22).
|
On November 22 2011 17:54 sandroba wrote:
The thing is prpl, wbg is my least likely suspect of being scum after you, based on behavior alone. I already pointed out why I don't think he is scum. I'd rather take my chances with hiro today. Everyone seems very concerned about who to lynch today and people are strugling to make the right choice. Everyone besides hiro. That's since day 1, he only pops in right before the lynch and votes. He is prob the last scum, since everybody else has more things pointing to them being town.
##Vote: Hiro Protagonist
okay this post on page 23 did it for me.
Sandro goes from me being the least likely suspect for being scum after prpl, to me being scum today.
I agree with what Meapak has said about sandro; they are all true and those are things I've thought as well. I just haven't had the confidence to believe in them this game. In addition, Meapak hasn't done anything overtly scummy beyond vote hiro day 1, and I'm guilty of that myself. We both messed up day 1 and I've otherwise thought Meapak has played very town-like. I don't think his play has been sub-par at all.
Sandro's play has just been kinda off. He has had bad reads all after day 1. He's using really bad logic today to try to lynch me, disbelieving my claim JUST because prpl claimed doctor and on the assumption that I'm trying to prove something (rofl). If you need to use something personal like that from last game then why make the argument at all? Prpl claiming doctor doesn't make me scum, and saying that I'm trying to prove something doesn't make me scum either.
He also delayed till the last possible moment on day 1 to hammer wiggles. He waited until it was obvious wiggles would die, since he probably knew Meapak and I would not let a no-lynch happen on day 1. So he hammered wiggles to give himself a lot of town cred. As Meapak said, after that he pretty much disappeared for quite a while.
prpl, this lynch comes down to you. I know you think I'm scum, but you're wrong. You need to seriously rethink everything right now, since most of what you have said is wrong. You said that as scum I would know that the jailor doesn't exist, that's false. You said that a blue would've claimed before now, that's also false. You've said that I'm scum because I was on the wrong side of the lynch day 1, that's also false, by definition, since at least one of Meapak/me cannot be scum. If you think I'm scum for that reason then I really question why you don't have a suspicion of Meapak.
Look at the evidence. If you actually believe I'm scum fake claiming jailkeeper after breadcrumbing for 3 days straight then I really don't know what to tell you.
##unvote Meapak Ziphh
##vote sandroba
I'd be completely fine with shortening the day to 24 hours, btw. I think I'm the only American left since decon is replacing Meapak, and I have no thanksgiving plans.
|
You thought the night actions made me suspicious before prpl claimed, but you didn't point that out until prpl claimed doctor. You even went out of your way to show that prpl claiming doctor doesn't confirm me.
That's just shedding doubt, and that shows you're acting from a scum agenda. If what you say is true, that it wasn't prpl's claim that made me scum, why did you use it in your argument for me being scum?
I've gone over multiple times that I made a mistake in my n1 action. I stand by my n2 action because there's no way I could've confirmed prpl otherwise. He caught me on the blue slip and I was afraid that if he was scum he'd shoot me. So I jailed him and turned out he was town.
Now you're arguing that scum paid no attention to my breadcrumbs. Breadcrumbs are only useful in the case someone dies. It's hard to find a breadcrumb unless you know what to look for, that's by definition how breadcrumbs work. If I'd died n2 or n3 the townies would've gone back to look for breadcrumbs. I breadcrumbed that I had checked Erandorr and prpl, by the way I called them townies despite having no real reason to think so. I also on one occasion baited (I think it was Meapak, specifically) by seeing what people thought of prpl.
If I were scum don't you think I would just take the easy route of saying "I've targetted sandro every night"? In that case all I would have to do today as scum is say prpl is dumb town, sandro is town woot let's lynch meapak.
Instead, you have this situation which can only be true if I am town. I breadcrumbed not only my role, but my checks. Your argument is that I faked them in anticipation of doing a fake claim just to do a fake claim 3 days in advance because I have a notion that TL towns will believe claims blindly. That's not true.
You even go so far as to use the end game result of last game to try and prove this. The point of last game was NOT that TL towns believe claims. The point of last game was that you lynch confirmed liars. GM was a confirmed liar, the town didn't actually believe his claim. Town knew he wasn't a medic because the medic flipped.
The fact that you're trying to say now that the post-game discussion somehow applies here is quite funny and very revealing of your alignment.
|
also I don't know if I mentioned it but a big reason I targetted Erandorr was because I was intrigued by what Palmar was saying in the thread about Erandorr being scummy. In addition, IIRC Wiggles said some things about him as well.
He had an interesting quote of my first post in which he just attacked everything despite agreeing with over half of it. I found that weird, like he was just simply trying to undermine my credibility. Since I leaned town on Palmar I wanted to see if he was right about Erandorr being scum. That ultimately is why I switched to Erandorr over trying to protect Palmar.
When the hit went through I immediately thought that jay/hiro had to be scum. Then prpl said something that tipped me off, so I figured I'd check him the next night. He came back town too so I figured it had to be hiro.
I was wrong every single time. Oh well.
|
On November 25 2011 07:28 sandroba wrote:
No, when prpl didn't cc you on the spot I assumed he was vanilla. You couldn't have said you jailed me every night because that would be an even more absurd use of a role, downright impossible to believe. You are saying that you have absolutely no reads this game so far, since you vote both hiro and jay, had no reason to believe errandor was town and had to confirm prpl which by reading the thread should be confirmed by default.
Occam's Razor. Why would saying jailing you every night as scum be absurd? You could just say they were trying to protect you because you're the best town player here!
Hell, that's what the doctor does, right? So if you simply use the jailor like a doctor that is actually a very good use of the role. The only way it fails and you die is if scum correctly RBs the jailkeeper.
I gave you why I targetted Erandorr. It made sense at the time. I should've chosen hiro or jay, but hindsight is 20/20 and in hindsight I'm dumb.
I also gave you why I targetted prpl. No one is "obv town." He was attacking me on day 2 for being scummy, and he caught my blue slip. A player is pushing a mislynch with shitty logic and you say it's obvious he was town? Then once it was openly clear that jay was doing very scummy stuff he jumped on the jay bandwagon. He also kept denying that Palmar could have been right that scum would bus on day 1.
All of those reasons led me to jailing prpl on n2, and I stand by all of those reasons. Call me dumb all you want if you think my night 1 action was dumb, since in hindsight it was, but my n2 action definitely was not and you attacking me for that is very revealing of your alignment.
|
For me the only thing going in prpl's favor on day 2 was that he voted #3 on wiggles on day 1. Otherwise his play has been different from other games in which he was town, and on day 2 he was shedding doubt and attacking me. I was averse to believing him to be sure town just on the day 1 vote because he did that really risky and unexpected thing of claiming DF in PYP:I, so I didn't put it past him to do something very unexpected.
|
On November 16 2011 09:02 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 03:40 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Wow, this is going really slow. Here's something to get people talking:
If you could pick one player (Not yourself) to make mayor (decides day 1 lynch + a couple night's worth of protection), who would it be and why?
I would personally pick MZ. He's level headed, and a decent scum-hunter, so I don't think he'd do anything crazy with a day 1 lynch, and the protection would come in handy with letting him live until later when he could scum-hunt more effectively.
Back to you guys. Mr. Wiggles, I don't believe I've ever seen you play town. Nonetheless, your first post is moronic. You're obviously not new, and I assume you have a functioning cerebral cortex. Thus, I think you should stop distracting town with a brainless question and an equally brainless answer to your own question. Next time, ask people what their favorite color is, because I'm sure that'll be more relevant to finding scum than what you posted.
On November 25 2011 07:32 sandroba wrote:Are you insane decon? I pointed out why wiggles was suspicious before anyone else did. Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 19:10 sandroba wrote:
I don't like the hiro lynch. I've read his posts and while his logic path is not stellar, his posts seem genuine and doesn't seem like he is trying to hide. I see him arguing controversial issues and not thinking carefully before he posts. Not mafia imo.
People that don't seem genuine to me as of now are Mr.Wiggles (his "atempt" at catching scum was the most optimistic plan ever known to man) and jaydude (seemed intusiastic about mafia, but has posted very little, only one liners without any thought behind and after people's reaction to his posts has gone missing -> good match for inexperienced scum, but a poor choice for a lynch today since I know nothing about his play).
I'm not quite sold on any lynch in particular yet, but I'm against lynching hiro. The I moved the discussion to wiggles and palmar is the one who agrees with me. Have you read my posts and do you think wbg's night actions are solid?
Sandro you're a liar. I was the first one to point it out, not you.
|
|
|
my head is going to explode
PRPL WHERE THE FUCK ARE YOU
|
if we no lynch scum can choose to no-hit and we're back to square one rofl.
|
decon imagine we're in a day 5 situation after no-lynching day 4, and scum has shot prpl, he has flipped doctor.
What is different about that situation than this one? The fact that prpl can't vote and you only need 2 for majority?
|
He can't be scum unless I was RBed on n2.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
