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Erandorr
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
2283 Posts
November 19 2011 12:59 GMT
#342

Do you honestly think he would be dumb enough as Scum to draw our attention back to that fact?If he was playing his first game as scum, do you really think he would write something like that about you, an established player and specificly point out that he did not vote at the time you thought he did and that makes your supicion of him a lot stronger? Why would he point out that he held his vote? You think he is actually that bad?
Erandorr
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
2283 Posts
November 19 2011 14:23 GMT
#352
On November 19 2011 22:12 sandroba wrote:
I think no matter what alignment it's already established that he is not the greatest mafia player. However, despite inexperience, I can only explain his actions so far if he is scum. Even in the very begining of the game I got that impression when he threw in the wbg vote and after that it only got worse. If being scum somehow makes you better at mafia in your first game than maybe I'm mistaken, but I don't think it's the case.


You are missing my point. Your general play will be shit in your first game, but that first vote may have been him being completely clueless and not scum. If you have not played before and see 2 people voting for someone in the first 5 posts or something, don't you think that its possible that he thought that is how we play this game? As Scum, wouldn't you be more likely to shut up and do nothing, instead of pushing somone you know is town?

You are talking about the "clueless card" and you think he is not "that " bad but if he is not , why would he point something out to you that makes you even more certain that he is scum?
Erandorr
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
2283 Posts
November 19 2011 14:29 GMT
#354
On November 19 2011 23:29 jaybrundage wrote:
Erandorr what do you think about a lynch on Hiro today


Excellent question!
Erandorr
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
2283 Posts
November 19 2011 15:07 GMT
#356
Give me a couple of minutes and then tell me what you think about it .
Erandorr
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
2283 Posts
November 19 2011 15:37 GMT
#362
I think Hiro maybe the other Mafia we are looking for.
There are a couple of points worth noting.


He agrees with Palmar that he would like to vote WBG, but does not follow up. When I ask him about it he repeats "lets start this game off the right foot" and ignores my question. That is not very like a town player. He then proceeds to give us a generic game mechanic post. THat in itself is not bad, but combined with it being in the same post where he ignored my question, it did look kind of bad.

Now everything that he did in the early parts of the game are excusable and in now way make him scum.


But there are quite a few ties to Wiggles and some really bad behavior

On November 16 2011 12:28 hiro protagonist wrote:
OK, here are my reads so far:

1.Palmar - null read, nothing to go on really. curious how he will play the last half of day 1.

2.Mr Wiggles- null read. His first post was obviously trying to draw out reactions. both scum and town would can do that so it sheds no alignment. His second post has his reads on everyone one that responded to him. He does not give his opinion on the current lynch target.


3.Wherebugsgo- Ill get to him last...

4.Meapak_Ziphh- leaning Red. Its not anything that he said, more its his overall style in the game so far. He jumps on easy targets AKA both my "generic post" and Wiggle's first post. He undercuts my statement of trying to start things on the right foot by saying its worthless, something that is clearly a mafia agenda IMO. Will be watching.

5.Erandorr- leaning town. Wants to lead town. Im all for it.

6.prplhz- null read. asks me alot of questions, and has done very little else. Could be scum wanting to make me more skittish (which he is btw) last post makes me feel more townie about him.

7.hiro protagonist- townie. says scummy things, but has the right intentions ^_^

8.jaybrundage- Null His last post is considerably better than those before it. His post are hard to read. Needs to be more clear. Needs to step up.

9.Sandroba- nothing.

And now for my vote. and I will place it on WBG. here is why:

-Bugs still has the same arrogant aggressive Behavior as every other game hes played. He is wrong most of the time as town, and It has cost the town the game on more than one occasion.

-I dont think we should allow someone that can be so obtuse and grating a free pass.

-I simply am gonna ignore WBGs for the rest of the game, but that will be easier once he is no longer in it.

##Vote: Wherebugsgo


This was his only post with content, or somethign like that. Palmar gave me shit for a similar post ( correctly, although I did have other intentions behind it) but notice how little Hiro is actually saying ,.

First of he has nullreads on nearly everybody and his best target at that point is WBG, still for the same reasons he stated at the start. He does not even seem to think that WBG is playing particularly scummy, just very annoying and he does not want to deal with him.
Notice also that he soft defends Wiggles twice. He spins Wiggles first post in a pro-town manner and then defends him again when talking about MZ (I bolded those parts)
filter

+ Show Spoiler +
Ok, first off, Meapak:

This is his first game relevint post:
On November 16 2011 04:59 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
I guess this will be one of Palmar's off games then.

Anyway, I'd feel good about lynching Wiggles right now. While it's true that the game has been slow there's still stuff to talk about. Wiggles decided to ignore the whole Palmar thing and told everyone to sit back and talk about completely irelevant things for no appparent purpose.

Also I'd feel grand lynching hiro.

Show nested quote +


This post is so unbelievable worthless that my mind has a hard time comprehending it. This is like a textbook example of contributing without contributing and fluff posting. The part in red had me laughing it was so hypocritical.


Solid in calling out people. aggresive. I make a point that my post was not worthless, arguing that posting it early in the day and when most people had not posted much the reason that it had worth. To "set the tone" i said. Meapak disagrees and we argue some back and forth when he responds to something I said with this:

On November 16 2011 07:13 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Show nested quote +

wow... just wow. This is the worst logic fail I've ever seen. I said your post was worthless because, news flash, it was. Me saying that your post is worthless =/= me promoting spam and tunneling and whatnot. Just because I said you're fluff posting doesn't mean I support "pro mafia ideas."

Congrats on becoming a better lynch targer then Mr. Wiggles.


His logic his correct and I have to admit that my logic is weak, as well as hypocritical. something that WBG will later bring up. he then disperse's for awhile comes back with this:

On November 17 2011 06:22 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
So Wiggles, please show me where I "make multiple aggressive moves towards people before settling on hiro." Your whole little case against me is essentially a rehash of what hiro wrote. It was bad when hiro wrote it and it's bad now.

Still, I don't think Wiggles is the best lynch for today. The case against Wiggles started when sandroba decided to start playing the game. Palmar jumped on board and those two got things started. Now the case isn't completely baseless. I've seen Wiggles play third party and scum and his current play does smell suspiciously like that. However I'd rather lynch hiro, who's scummy behavior has only increased since last time I brought him up. Notice that since the case against Wiggles was brought up, hiro has posted ZERO times. This is a huge scumtell in that once the pressure's off he goes back to lurking. A townie would still be contributing, however a mafia would want to get out of the discussion as soon as the pressure is off.


no changing his mind. My conclusion is that he is actively pushing a lynch based on solid logic. also comments about a few others like wiggles, Erandorr, giving his opinion on them. Giving him a second look, I less inclined to think he is scum, but will be watching him as the days go on.

now, on to wiggles:

so, other than his "throw out a lure" first post he has only posted twice. spolierd for length

+ Show Spoiler +


Now one thing has caught my eye, and thats the following: first in his post he talks about Meapak:

Meapak_Ziphh:

Here's our aggressive player. He jumped on my post a lot more forcefully than Erandorr did, before quickly moving on to Palmar, WBG, and then finally Hiro. I'm interested in seeing how he plays after Day 1, because right now he's just cycling through targets, and that could either be him as a townie trying to pressure and find scum, or as scum trying to elicit a response from a skittish townie or blue and take us to a mislynch. He needs to be watched for how he forms his analysis and what the content of it is.

Remember this bolded part. So when there is some heat on, says this:

On November 17 2011 00:52 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Meapak_Ziphh on the other hand, has shown that he's definitely scummy. He was trying to play the hyper-aggressive townie, but he hasn't played his role quite well enough. Notice that he makes aggressive moves towards multiple players in a short period of time, before settling on hiro. This is enough to establish himself as "scumhunting", but then he never follows up. There's barely any additional pressure on hiro after his vote, he doesn't try to convince anyone else in the town to vote for hiro, he doesn't respond to what I said about him, and he basically disappears from the thread. This is incredibly scummy, and contrary to everything a townie should be doing after early aggression.

##Vote: Meapak_Ziphh


So instead of "watching for how he forms his analysis and what the content of it is" he votes on Meapak for disappearing . thats a bit of a jump from "watch this guys post" to "He is scum". the other thing that has bothered me about Wiggles is that he makes no mention of me at all, when the rest of town has put up there thoughts on me. Why leave me out wiggles when I was looking very scummy?

So based on what others have said, as well as my own reads, I am be OK with lynching Wiggles.

All the rest:

I have a funny feeling about Prphz, and I would be OK with lynching him. WBG is slightly more readable and reasonable so far this game, which in its self makes me feel funny but I cant deny his actions have been protown so far.

Ill need more time to read over Sand and Palmar Ill be around till slightly before lynch


Then there is the timing of his vote on Wiggles. It was clear that you and Palmar especially seemed to agree that Wiggles was the best lynch. Me Palmar and Prplzh voted Wiggles already and then he decides to show up again with a pretty strong turn and jumps on the Wiggles wagon. He adds some okay-ish arguments and then says that he is "Okay with lynching Wiggles." Is is also "okay" with lynching prplzh but never follows up with that.

It is also important to note that he turned on MZ and was considering that he may be town. Same goes for WBG

And then there is this post :

On November 17 2011 09:54 hiro protagonist wrote:
Seems like some people have cold feet? MZ would love to lynch me. Seems like everyone voting wiggles is like "yeah, ok, Ill vote him" wishy washy except Palmar. WBG feels better about lynching me. Jay still has his vote on bugs that was there 5 min into the game lol. Sand has not voted.

Anyone have any other thoughts. Meapak, If not me, who would you vote? Anyone here that would rather lynch someone other than me or wiggles?


Notice that Hiro voted for wiggles and agreeing that he would make an okay lynch.
He never speaks against the lynch directly but still wants to get support for a turnaround away from either him or Wiggles.
That post sounds really , really bad to me.
He also claims that no one really seems to believe in the lynch, thus carefully stating again that he does not really like it and wants to get it away from wiggles. Yet we never hear a word against the lynch from him. If he was town, wouldn't he still push the targets he believes in? Instead he sort of agrees with the lynch on Wiggles but still does want to get the lynch away from the guy.
To me it sounds like a bus where Hiro still tried to get the lynch deflected to someone else.
Erandorr
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
2283 Posts
November 19 2011 15:38 GMT
#363
Zzz look sandro, i found something. Also hiro is missing ^.^
Erandorr
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
2283 Posts
November 19 2011 15:41 GMT
#365
huh? ooh thats for Jay right?
Erandorr
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
2283 Posts
November 19 2011 15:56 GMT
#368
I will be back in like 4 hours so plenty of time before the lynch. Everyone else look at what I wrote and also the evidence on jay and tell us who you would like to lynch please.
Erandorr
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
2283 Posts
November 19 2011 16:20 GMT
#371
What do you think about the way Wiggles talked about Hiro? (Also im afk for a couple of hours for real now ^.^ )
Erandorr
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
2283 Posts
November 19 2011 21:22 GMT
#394
On November 20 2011 01:27 prplhz wrote:
@Erandorr

At the danger of being ever more of an idiot I don't think that hiro protagonist is scum. I skimmed some of his earlier games and he always looks like this.

This post from PYP:I looks the same as his posts here, he never says anybody is scum. He mostly just focuses on who is town. Now, I know that there was a mayoral election on day1 in PYP:I but people still had to scum hunt. Also his logic was way off as illustrated in posts like this. I think his posts in that game looks a lot like his posts in this game, he is trying, in his own peculiar way, to create what he think is is a good townie atmosphere.

The most townie tell for hiro protagonist in my opinion is that he voted for Mr. Wiggles as fourth. I don't think the lynch was certain at that point and I don't think that he bussed Mr. Wiggles. While sandroba had said that he liked the Mr. Wiggles lynch he had not voted yet and I don't think that anybody would bus their scum buddy on day1. I don't think scum would want any of them to die on day1 since that would give town 3 lynches to find the last scum, that's really uphill.

I would like to lynch wherebugsgo. The simplest explanation is that scum don't want to die day1, don't draw attention to each other, and that overly newbie play is probably because someone is ... very new at this game. This leaves wherebugsgo.

Also, I don't hate wherebugsgo's play, I think he's pretty good at mafia both as scum and as town, but whatever.

I don't like the no lynch idea.


Hey man, I would never call you an idiot if you actually make sense( If I did at all then I am sorry, thats not a nice thing to do) . Unfortunatly you seem to have missed the point i was trying to make. I said that the points you are talking about make him in no way scum, like others before me seemed to think. Could you give me your thoughts on my actual points against him?
The bus is debatable. Think about the position he was in at that point. The only real targets where him and Wiggles. Do you think that there was any point where someone other then those two could have been lynched? It also would (sort of) explain why no one really seemed to defend Wiggles.



Now Sandro , I have a couple of questions for you

1) You said that you thought MZ was most likely to be scum but that you were to lazy to write it out. What happened to that?
2) Did you factor in the Roleblocker into your no lynch plan? He sort of could fuck that over. Also we could just get unlucky and have nothing that is in any way investigative.


On November 20 2011 01:07 sandroba wrote:
The thing that bothers me about lynching hiro is that they were both on the chopping block yesterday and they made no real effort to get the lynch moved elsewhere. Like wiggles had no thread presence while the pressure was on hiro and it seemed like he might have ended up being lynched. Wiggles only really makes an appearance when he gets called out. Occam's razor says that one of the main lynch targets ytd ought to be town, but then again it has failed me before (merc mini mafia).


The issue I have with that is that there was actually not really anyone else ever up for discussion. The activity has not been exactly strong and they both sooort of went after MZ. Hiro is not exactly a strong player and had the worst standing possible at that point. Wiggles played very poorly this game so I have no clue how much we should read into that.
Erandorr
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
2283 Posts
November 19 2011 21:22 GMT
#395
On November 20 2011 06:14 hiro protagonist wrote:
Im back, sorry for being gone for so long. gonna read the thread, and give my thoughts/vote in a sec.


Hi Hiro !
Erandorr
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
2283 Posts
November 19 2011 21:28 GMT
#396
Oh shit. I just noticed something. Could all of you guys look at MZ and explain to me why we are not lynching the shit out of him, too?
Erandorr
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
2283 Posts
November 19 2011 21:55 GMT
#399
On November 20 2011 06:44 wherebugsgo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2011 06:28 Erandorr wrote:
Oh shit. I just noticed something. Could all of you guys look at MZ and explain to me why we are not lynching the shit out of him, too?


?

!

Can you tell me why you don't think he is scum? Could very well be that I am overlooking something.
Erandorr
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
2283 Posts
November 19 2011 22:12 GMT
#400
I would just like to add that we are heading fast towards a no lynch.
Don't like that because of the roleblocker

##Vote Hiro
Erandorr
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
2283 Posts
November 19 2011 22:19 GMT
#402
Can we get a votecount (yeah I am lazy)
Erandorr
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
2283 Posts
November 19 2011 23:01 GMT
#407
Shit Meapak, I am really tired and sort of don't want to write another wall of text right now so I will keep this short and probably not well written out.

1) You tried to push Hiro over Wiggles and get the pressure away from him.
2) You made it sound like the alternative to lynching Hiro would be a no lynch
3) You were very non commital about Wiggles but in ultra tunnel mode on Hiro without saying anything about anyone else for a very long time.
4)you set up Hiro for day2 lynch but never follow up and don't exactly comment on it
5)you say bugs is town then you are convinced he is scum and then go back to him being off the hook.
6) You call jay a super easy lynch and then lynch him because you are done with the newbie excuse... wait what? also you get away from a kind of hard lynch target in WBG
7) i hate the fact that you never explain the decisions , such as not going for hiro anymore, but instead just drop it. you only reply to that kind of stuff when you get asked about it specificly

There are points in your favor too and this is all very poorly formulated, but I would still appreciate if you could answer this.
Erandorr
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
2283 Posts
November 19 2011 23:03 GMT
#408
Yo Hiro, could you read my thoughts about you and answer them, please ?
Erandorr
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
2283 Posts
November 19 2011 23:28 GMT
#425
On November 20 2011 08:27 chaoser wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2011 08:23 jaybrundage wrote:
wait 24 hours left in the day i though it was 4 ok so im not dead yet


2 and half more hours till day ends

it's hard to edit on iphone


not your best day, huh ?
Erandorr
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
2283 Posts
November 19 2011 23:32 GMT
#427
On November 20 2011 08:29 jaybrundage wrote:
way to break a mans spirits ouch


you scum?
Erandorr
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
2283 Posts
November 19 2011 23:42 GMT
#432
On November 20 2011 08:35 hiro protagonist wrote:
also,

#Vote: jaybrundage


The sad thing is that there actually is a possibility that this is town Hiro
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