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On November 19 2011 03:50 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
Why is he active as soon as he dies?
He was active before he died too, you guys were just too dumb to see it. (well, by his standards) Hopefully he's learned his lesson, though.
We still need to hear from Coag. Apart from reading the thread for like 10 seconds and then making some reads he hasn't done anything. If this persists we need to consider killing him tomorrow.
On November 19 2011 02:11 Lanaia wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2011 23:50 Palmar wrote:
I was under the impression Lanaia has played quite a bit on globalgamers (IRC mafia) I recall something about that from PTP2. If I'm wrong, well then I'm sorry I guess.
IRC mafia is not the same as forum mafia. I am a hell of a lot better at IRC mafia than at forum mafia. Also, I'm really sorry if I don't post much within the next... 12 hours (unless the highway is shut down, I'll be working tonight). I hate this feeling I have. I want everyone who is currently active to be town (though that is highly unlikely). Right now, I feel that only one of chaoser and Palmar can be scum (leaning Palmar); however they could technically be both town, but I get the feeling scum would not try to bus day one, am I correct in thinking this?
You should either reinforce your leaning read or just not post something like this at all. Do not ever say "only one of these two players could be scum" unless you want scum to come in and hammer that false dichotomy like there is no tomorrow.
We know nothing about their alignments until one of them flips.
Also, I disagree with you, chaoser is more likely to be scum. Far more likely, IMO.
On November 19 2011 02:33 Cyber_Cheese wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 02:11 Lanaia wrote:On November 18 2011 23:50 Palmar wrote:
I was under the impression Lanaia has played quite a bit on globalgamers (IRC mafia) I recall something about that from PTP2. If I'm wrong, well then I'm sorry I guess.
IRC mafia is not the same as forum mafia. I am a hell of a lot better at IRC mafia than at forum mafia. Also, I'm really sorry if I don't post much within the next... 12 hours (unless the highway is shut down, I'll be working tonight). I hate this feeling I have. I want everyone who is currently active to be town (though that is highly unlikely). Right now, I feel that only one of chaoser and Palmar can be scum (leaning Palmar); however they could technically be both town, but I get the feeling scum would not try to bus day one, am I correct in thinking this? Knowing Palmar, he's already tried to bus his whole team, but Chaoser wouldn't have. If I'm not around tomorrow, keep in mind that starting all this 'people I think are town' during the night is painting targets for the mafia, and Palmar started it. I have a very busy weekend so my contributions will of a lower quality until Monday.
Both chaoser and Palmar are well known for bussing their teammates.
Palmar is also self-proclaimed to be terrible as scum. Chaoser is not bad at scum IMO but for me it's easy to tell when he is. His hyperaggressiveness in defending himself by continually berating Palmar is a scum defense of his he usually employs. He did it to me and Mig in PYP when I was on his back for being scummy.
Finally, use your brain. If Palmar wanted to paint targets for scum he'd do it in their QT. He wouldn't out to the entire thread who he think would make good doc prots. Most of his reads are fine, too.
On November 19 2011 02:38 GreYMisT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 01:08 xsksc wrote:On November 19 2011 00:30 risk.nuke wrote:On November 19 2011 00:23 xsksc wrote:
Well Palmar, here's my thoughts.
I think the Kenpachi/Sinani lynches were silly. The only real scum read I have right now is on Drazerk. I'm not sure about Chaoser, I don't know his meta so it's harder for me to form an opinion on his town play. There are a couple of others I'm undecided on.
People I think are town :
wherebugsgo
palmar
risk.nuke
harbingerofdoom
lanaia
forumite
People I think are scum/I'm suspicious of :
prphlz
chaoser
drazerk
lemonwalrus
That's my current opinions, I have nothing solid to go on with chaoser/prphlz/lemon though.
Also, I'm really surprised I made it onto your vig list. I actually made a case on someone and stuck with it, I didn't join those ridiculous bandwagons that got two of our blues killed day 1.
Okey I think I just specifically said I don't want to see lists without reasoning. So xsksc your next post better explain that list with arguments. Sure. People I think are town :wherebugsgo His posts seem very pro-town to me, he made a convincing case on chaoser, he didn't join the silly lynches. I don't think he's scum. palmarSame as wherebugsgo basically. I agree with most of his reads, he's made some pretty strong cases imo. His posts seem townie to me. risk.nukeI could definitely be wrong here, your agressiveness towards people I think are scummy makes you look town. However you voted in BOTH of the lynches, so I'm not too sure about you. harbingerofdoomAlready said it in my other post. He was pretty agressive to drazerk early on, before he got a lot of votes, and if I'm correct and drazerk is red, HoD looks pretty town to me. lanaiaI wasn't sure before kenpachi flipped, but I think she just made a mistake in revealing her role day 1. forumiteHe made some pretty weird cases early, I don't think scum would make such blatantly obvious attempts at starting a bandwagon, I think he was just trying to get information. He also seemed eager for a drazerk lynch, which makes me think he's town. I don't have solid cases on my scum list apart from Drazerk, and if you want to see my case on him just filter me. A lot of my list is just general vibes and feelings at the moment, some of the townies could be scum, and vice versa. Town reads don't really help us at all, What are your scum reads? If you think palmar is town, then do you agree with his case against chaoser? Similarly because you arediscounting LSB's arguments against palmar, do you think he is misguided? or is there something more sinister going on.
I'd like to hear your opinion, Grey, on who is most likely to be scum right now.
You made the mistake of being on both wagons yesterday, we can't afford things like that to happen again.
You could be scum for all we know, and I've been leaning town on you so far, but I want to see some well reasoned reads from you.
On November 19 2011 03:01 Drazerk wrote:
People who I think are scum -
Lanaia
Palmar
Coagulation
Nisani201
Forumite
Try to use your brain and tell me why Palmar+Nisani or Palmar+Lanaia doesn't work.
Just...really...wow.
On November 19 2011 04:19 DCLXVI wrote:Why don't I appear on any lists  I would rather wait until morning to start discussing again so I can start throwing down votes, I trust the remaining blues to use their roles wisely.
If you're town and you think you have something valuable that needs to be said before day, then now is the time to do it (or 10 minutes before daybreak.)
However, I doubt there's anything like that after day 1.
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On November 19 2011 01:40 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 00:57 Palmar wrote:On November 19 2011 00:46 Forumite wrote:On November 19 2011 00:24 Palmar wrote:On November 19 2011 00:23 xsksc wrote:
Well Palmar, here's my thoughts.
I think the Kenpachi/Sinani lynches were silly. The only real scum read I have right now is on Drazerk. I'm not sure about Chaoser, I don't know his meta so it's harder for me to form an opinion on his town play. There are a couple of others I'm undecided on.
People I think are town :
wherebugsgo
palmar
risk.nuke
harbingerofdoom
lanaia
forumite
People I think are scum/I'm suspicious of :
prphlz
chaoser
drazerk
lemonwalrus
That's my current opinions, I have nothing solid to go on with chaoser/prphlz/lemon though.
Also, I'm really surprised I made it onto your vig list. I actually made a case on someone and stuck with it, I didn't join those ridiculous bandwagons that got two of our blues killed day 1.
well, to be fair, maybe it's just best if vigis hold their shots. I can relate to your list though I don't agree with all the reads (pending re-reading I'd say harbringer could be scum, and prplhz could be town). I´m ticked off by this. Of course prplhz COULD be Town, but I don´t think it´s very likely after some of his actions around the sinani lynch and earlier. Is there something specific in his play that makes you want to defend him, have you found a solid breadcrumb among his posts, do you have a strong hunch about him, or is it something else? pending re-reading, as I already said. Notice the list-formatted posts I'm doing, I have a couple of 180's on reads in them, those are the result of me re-reading the thread. I just had a town gut on him early, remember that he was one of the people I did my initial alignment analysis on. I can understand that, I wrote him off as Town early too, but that changed. I am looking forward to hearing your opinion once you recheck him. I don´t know if I like people putting me on the townlist or not. Feels like a I get a gold medal, while simultaneously a huge target is painted on my forehead.
so funny
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@Wherebugsgo (not quoting for the sake of readability)
With the two people I voted for flipping town, I have to reevaluate a lot of my thoughts, but what I do want to call everyone's attention to is prplhz. Some of us voiced our suspicions of him during the day, but I would like to bring them to light once again.
1st off over half of his posts focus on lurkers, well beyond the time the discussion should have been over with. Like I said earlier these posts are very easy to do as mafia, so while it is not a "scumtell" persay, it definatly raises a red flag in my book.
I decided to keep my eye on him, and this is what I saw.
His reason to vote kenpachi:
On November 16 2011 18:23 prplhz wrote:
Yea I like Kenpachi as a lynch too
##Vote Kenpachi
And his subsequent votes later in the day.
+ Show Spoiler +On November 16 2011 23:52 prplhz wrote:
I AM GOING TO VOTE FOR DRAZERK BECAUSE HE IS SCUM
##Vote Drazerk On November 17 2011 00:12 prplhz wrote:
NO CASE NEEDED DRAZERK IS SCUM On November 17 2011 11:18 prplhz wrote:
START VOTING DRAZERK HIRORUBY AND CYBER_CHEESE
STOP VOTING LANAIA AND CHAOSER
##Vote Cyber_Cheese
ALSO WTF ABOUT KENPACHI GG SON SORRY FOR MY VOTE On November 18 2011 10:53 prplhz wrote:
##Vote bumatlarge
oh my god you suck
MORE PEOPLE ON DRAZERK, HIRORUBY, AND CYBER_CHEESE
LESS PEOPLE ON SINANI206
THANK YOU
i dont know if this is his attempt to appear as an aggressive townie, or if this is just him being bad, but If he doesnt shape up when the night ends he has my vote.
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Also, I disagree with you, chaoser is more likely to be scum. Far more likely, IMO.
Calling out to all vigis, if you want to shoot me, I'm perfectly cool with that. When I flip townie, ask yourself why Palmar thought I was 90% scum but still decided I should be checked and not shot. Even after a full 70+ hours of pushing for my lynch and trying to make a case (a ludicrous one) against me.
And when asked about why he wanted a check on me instead of a shot, merely said "I respect you and want you to be given a trial and lynched over being shot".
Cause clearly if I was mafia, giving me another day to muck my influence around and cause a mess in thread if I wanted to, is totally an ok thing according to him.
If you go read my exchanges with him you'll clearly see he's pushing an agenda.
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While we're all here twiddling thumbs and throwing around lists of people who we think are scum/town, let's analyze this Palmar/chaoser business, shall we?
Follow along with me, starting on page 58.
On November 18 2011 23:40 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +Another example is Lanaia, she's not new to mafia, and anyone who gives the issue half a thought should understand why what she did was bad. That didn't stop her The fuck? How is Lanaia not new? She's played under 5 games here. The first time I played with her (Insane 2 mafia), she accidentally leaked that she was king and then died for it. She didn't do so well in the next normal game she played in either, posting this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=204956¤tpage=54#1069and then getting replaced. So how is Lanaia not new again? And how does being not new or being new relate to whether someone is good or not? I started playing in like 2009 or so and I didn't get better than shit until recently in relative time. GM decided it was a good idea to fake claim medic on the night before LYLO and he's been here forever/played way more when compared to Lanaia. This is such bad logic of "she did something bad, she deserves to die" Oh and also: Show nested quote +We should be voting to lynch at least one person based on analysis, and that person should be chaoser. Show nested quote +my attention is completely on chaoser, whom I consider very likely to be scum at the moment. Show nested quote +I accuse chaoser of not playing optimally for being a vanilla town, and because that's his claim and his play doesn't match, therefore he must be scum You're on my dick for the whole day and when you decide it's time to direct blue roles you decide the best thing for me is: Show nested quote +If we have investigative roles, we should be checking into this group of players
chaoser ??? Why didn't you put me in the: Show nested quote +If we have vigilantes they should be focusing on people who are hellbent on being useless and scummy to boot. list?
Look at how chaoser makes a mountain out of a molehill. Palmar is saying that good players should not do pro-scum things as Lanaia has done, on the assumption that Lanaia is good/vet. This assumption apparently is wrong, since Lanaia is fairly new.
Chaoser attacks Palmar over this but doesn't attack his logic. Notice there is nothing in this post about how Palmar's logic is bad or how he is trying to make something up. This is because chaoser knows that he can't attack Palmar's logic, so he must resort to attacking Palmar on other grounds. Here he chooses a mistake (that pretty much anyone could make) and makes into something gigantically bad, something he tends to do as scum in order to make his accuser look bad.
In the second part of the post, look at his outrage over being classified as a check target instead of a vig target. Most vets play with the idea of vigging lurkier scum and getting the more active ones lynched, since this creates bigger discussion and adds pressure to the other scum.
When we lynch active scum, other scum are forced to discuss the lynch, which often incriminates them instead. When we vig active scum, the opposite effect is true; the guy dies, and we have no discussion about it. This is why it's almost always optimal to kill scummy lurkers or scum who will never get lynched. This is not true for chaoser; he can get lynched. It won't be easy, but that's because chaoser is good. In addition, it will hopefully be a big topic of discussion, as plenty of people will ask why or will demand to know how chaoser is scum.
On November 18 2011 23:50 Palmar wrote:
I was under the impression Lanaia has played quite a bit on globalgamers (IRC mafia) I recall something about that from PTP2. If I'm wrong, well then I'm sorry I guess.
Because chaoser, believe it or not, my entire case against you is based on the assumption that you're very good at mafia, I said right at the start of the game that you are a top 5 player in this game. If I happen to be wrong, I would like to minimize the damage town takes from me being wrong. Now I don't think I am wrong, but I am playing to win, not playing to prove myself awesome.
You will not be useless if you're town, I trust that. So I see no reason you should be shot like any common scummy fucker, you deserve a trial and a lynch.
Look at Palmar's response to chaoser. Is it reasonable? Yes. Does it make sense? Yes.
Chaoser is mad because he's on the check list and not the vig list. Trust me, chaoser would have been mad regardless of what Palmar said. This is what chaoser does when people think he's scum. More often than not, if he tries to mischaracterize a post like this as scummy, chaoser is trying to manipulate town into seeing something that doesn't exist.
On November 18 2011 23:44 chaoser wrote:
Since, according to you, I've been useless as well as scummy to boot
This is a mischaracterization, and it's really funny that chaoser is trying to say this. Chaoser has been scummy and loud; useless is a side effect of his loudness. People who get vigilante'd often aren't loud. There are some exceptions with day vigges, who often shoot in the middle of an argument, but night vig shots are generally reserved for scummy lurkers on the first couple days. (often n1 they don't shoot, too)
On November 18 2011 23:53 chaoser wrote:
lol...so the reason you don't want me shot, even though you think i'm like 90% mafia is because you respect me...and thus I deserve a trial and lynch instead of a bullet?
On November 18 2011 23:55 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +Because chaoser, believe it or not, my entire case against you is based on the assumption that you're very good at mafia, I said right at the start of the game that you are a top 5 player in this game. If I happen to be wrong, I would like to minimize the damage town takes from me being wrong. So you're saying your case has no weight in it at all since it's entirely based on the fact that in your mind I'm not playing "good" (I think you mean well). And was that a backhanded insult lol?
More mischaracterizations. It doesn't get better than this lol.
It's not about respect, it's about optimal play. Calling a vig shot on you is not optimal play. Calling a lynch on you is.
To all of you reading this; please let me know what kind of scum would actually want attention on themselves by calling for a lynch of someone instead of a vig shot. A vig shot is the easy way to kill someone. It takes a lot of effort to try to lynch someone. Would Palmar, who is self-proclaimed to be a lazy bastard as scum, really want to lynch chaoser if he was?
On November 19 2011 00:01 chaoser wrote:
Cause I don't think I've ever seen someone say, hey I think you're scum! But I respect you so I want you to die by lynch instead of getting shot by vigi!
If someone thought someone else was mafia you 100% call to shoot the fuck out of them. Pretty sure most people will find this exchange we just had interesting though.
Yeah I find it interesting, because chaoser makes no distinction between a lynch and a vig shot, which is again a mischaracterization.
Keep 'em coming, chaoser.
On November 19 2011 00:05 chaoser wrote:
Oh also, you never answered my question about why you thought kenpachi was a good lynch but sinani wasn't an equally good lynch.
Actually people answered this about five hundred times, just chaoser keeps pretending like he never saw it.
Lanaia did something that was extremely pro-scum if one or both of them were scum. We needed to lynch one of them to deal with that, we chose kenpachi. Her reactions since then have been better and more pro-town.
What's funny is that if chaoser truly thought Lanaia made a town-mistake, why did he wait until now to post that she did a similar mistake in a previous game? If he was town and he had the full-interest of town at heart he wouldn't have made a half ass attempt to stop people from voting kenpachi. He would've disclosed all the relevant information and told everyone that this is something that Lanaia had done before. Instead, he waited till it was convenient for him to use the "Lanaia has done this before" card to accuse Palmar of being scum. That makes chaoser look pretty bad.
On November 19 2011 00:15 chaoser wrote:Oh and also: Show nested quote +Thing is, he's throwing around one-liners. Drazerk generally at least tries to look town when he's town, but maybe this is the latest development in town play, a lot of players (myself, for example) get a bit cocky once they're over their newbie phase.
However, we know Drazerk isn't dumb. The only attack he's actually made in the game is against a newbie, which is a safe attack (attacking a veteran as scum is risky, cause they will call you out), and he wasn't completely convinced by my case on chaoser. (He never does until he's asked about it again...a day later) Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 23:29 Palmar wrote:On November 17 2011 23:24 xsksc wrote:
Palmar, what are your thoughts on Drazerk?
While I agree that Chaos would be a decent lynch, I see Drazerk as way more suspicious at the moment and I'd rather lynch him. Drazerk has done some extremely bad things this game, the most hilarious of all was when he went through his own games go convince us he's bad at this. I mean... I have no words, his actual defense is that he is terrible at mafia? I would be fine with lynching Drazerk or even Bumatlarge. I just want another lynch outside of Kenpachi, and I have been convinced that Lanaia should be left alive for now, mostly by risk.nuke and tyrren whom I both consider town. I don't have time right now to build a case against Drazerk, and because I only think we should lynch one person outside of Kenpachi today, my attention is completely on chaoser, whom I consider very likely to be scum at the moment. We need a single lynch for today based on analysis. We've already achieved a Kenpachi lynch, and we're ruling out Lanaia for now. I think this lynch should be chaoser, but I encourage people to make a case for someone else. (He still doesn't do it) (Unvotes the guy?) Show nested quote +If we have vigilantes they should be focusing on people who are hellbent on being useless and scummy to boot.
Nisani201
Drazerk
xskxc (But then wants to shoot him?) Show nested quote +Click your own filter, you have 1 post that consists of more than 5-ish lines, and even that has very little information. Your primary responsibility as town is to establish your innocence and being transparent, with almost nothing to go on except you chasing after Drazerk you look pretty bad.
In fact, the fact that you question it so genuinely is probably the most townie thing you've done the entire game. That doesn't change the fact that while we are aware you want to lynch Drazerk, you haven't done much to share any of your other reads. (Then bitches at xskxc for "only going after Drazerk" when he himself has predominately only gone after me?) I is confused
What?
Most of this post doesn't make sense because chaoser says Palmar kept forgetting to comment on Drazerk, although all of the quotes contain analysis of Drazerk...
I think the "I is confused" line should be used by anyone reading chaoser's post, which is ironic.
Chasing only Drazerk is scummy because there are dozens of other things that happened yesterday. Myself and Palmar posted a case on chaoser, the Lanaia/kenpachi business blew up, Coag voted an already-hammered person, sinani was taking votes for no apparent reason, and LSB was active at the beginning only to competely disappear later.
Saying that Palmar only went after him is another mischaracterization, since he responded to the other things that were going on yesterday and was rather transparent with other players. Unlike, of course, chaoser.
On November 19 2011 00:26 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2011 18:56 Palmar wrote:
Sinani206's play is so far from optimal for town that it's borderline disgusting, that doesn't change the fact I deduced he wasn't mafia and did not vote for him. I did not expect sinani206 to play well, he never does.
You didn't expect sinani to play well and yet you somehow expected Lanaia and Kenpachi to play well and because Lanaia made a mistake/didn't play well she needed to be lynched? Mind blown
lol.
I shouldn't have to say anything here, with everything that I've already said in mind, all of you should read these posts by chaoser and come to your own conclusions:
On November 19 2011 00:34 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 00:29 Palmar wrote:On November 19 2011 00:25 chaoser wrote:On November 19 2011 00:23 Palmar wrote:
Cause I'm only 90% confident in my reads, like, I know I'm on something like a 8-9 game streak of pushing mafia as day 1 lynch when I'm town, but that doesn't give me the right to be cocky or arrogant about it. Now go read the rest of the game, you're getting boring. wow...I didn't realize being 90% confident in your reads would still mean you doubt them so much that you'd want someone to be investigated instead of killed on the spot. So that must mean you're more then 90% confident that Drazerk and such are mafia? Since you asked for them to be shot? Please stop the ridiculousness already. You are active and smart enough to be properly interrogated, you're going to provide cases and you will show your true colors. Shitty people will probably just respond with oneliners and useless stuff, so they're better dealt with by vigilantes. You know this. And yet on day one you wanted to outright lynch me and to deny me the chance to "show my true colors" while coag gets a pass because he would "show his true colors" as the game went on.
+ Show Spoiler +pushing for a lynch doesn't deny someone the right to "show your true colors" because if you manage to prove yourself an asset to town you won't get lynched. Yay logic.
On November 19 2011 00:46 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 00:43 Palmar wrote:On November 19 2011 00:34 chaoser wrote:On November 19 2011 00:29 Palmar wrote:On November 19 2011 00:25 chaoser wrote:On November 19 2011 00:23 Palmar wrote:
Cause I'm only 90% confident in my reads, like, I know I'm on something like a 8-9 game streak of pushing mafia as day 1 lynch when I'm town, but that doesn't give me the right to be cocky or arrogant about it. Now go read the rest of the game, you're getting boring. wow...I didn't realize being 90% confident in your reads would still mean you doubt them so much that you'd want someone to be investigated instead of killed on the spot. So that must mean you're more then 90% confident that Drazerk and such are mafia? Since you asked for them to be shot? Please stop the ridiculousness already. You are active and smart enough to be properly interrogated, you're going to provide cases and you will show your true colors. Shitty people will probably just respond with oneliners and useless stuff, so they're better dealt with by vigilantes. You know this. And yet on day one you wanted to outright lynch me and to deny me the chance to "show my true colors" while coag gets a pass because he would "show his true colors" as the game went on. yes, and if I had managed to convince enough people to lynch you, we'd have had great discussion about it on day 1, but you were never in enough danger for that to emerge. Are you being intentionally thick chaoser? I didn't want to lynch you with no discussion, I wanted people to read my arguments and agree with me. Maybe that'll happen on day 2. So you're saying your wanting to outright lynch me is needed to create "great discussion" and thus it was a ploy to make me "show my true colors". Then what was with saying coag would "show his true colors" and giving him a pass? Shouldn't you have also wanted to outright lynch him and then that would in turn create "great discussion" and make him show his "true colors"?
Compare these two responses, and look at who provides more information:
On November 19 2011 01:00 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 00:53 risk.nuke wrote:
Palmar & Chaoser, what do you think of xsksc. null tell right now, he's been on Drazerk since the beginning of the game. A DT check on him would be nice but not needed, mafia always come out by end game (see LOTR)
On November 19 2011 01:06 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 00:53 risk.nuke wrote:
Palmar & Chaoser, what do you think of xsksc. I already gave a little bit of insight into my thoughts on him in this post here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12326737His opening post isn't terrible, although it is very generic. It doesn't add anything meaningful to the discussion, but I have seen townies act like this before. I would say this gives him a few scum points, but not too much. Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 16:50 xsksc wrote:On November 15 2011 16:28 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
People should post opinions on 1) Tunneling people, 2) Use of the multilynch system and 3) The use of the multilynch system in regards to lurkers. 1) I'm assuming this means focusing solely on getting 1 person lynched? If it does, we obviously want to avoid that and keep an open mind. 2) I think the multi-lynch system looks really interesting, and could be a great help if we use it properly. If we have a couple of people who are posting suspiciously then we don't have to decide which one is scummier, because we're not limited to one lynch, we can judge them seperately and lynch them both (if it comes to that). 3) We shouldn't go overboard with the use of this on lurkers, maybe lynch 1 lurker a day with it, in addition to the people we think are scum. His case against Drazerk is very weak, and I find it interesting that he can have such a strong scumread on someone who has done so little in the game. He is basically accusing Drazerk of posting one-liners which is well.. correct. Does that have anything to do with Drazerk's alignment? I'm not sure it does. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12312721Yes Drazerk has acted like a complete idiot this game, but generally speaking it's more likely townies act like idiots. He keeps the pressure on Drazerk, which is also interesting, and doesn't really give much thought on anything else happening in the game. Again, the tunnelvision on one thing and one thing only can be attributed to both newbie town and scum. Forumite and I have both put on pressure on him, and he hasn't slipped in his defense yet, which gives him town points. I guess the verdict on him would have to be: Slightly scummy, but not conclusive.
Remember, scum don't like giving reads on people and the last thing they want to do is give town information, since mafia is a game about mafia starting with more information and town racing to catch up.
It's a game of attrition; if town can achieve the same level of information as mafia before they are outnumbered, town wins. If not, mafia wins. Always be wary of who is unwilling to disseminate information.
On November 19 2011 05:32 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +Also, I disagree with you, chaoser is more likely to be scum. Far more likely, IMO. Calling out to all vigis, if you want to shoot me, I'm perfectly cool with that. When I flip townie, ask yourself why Palmar thought I was 90% scum but still decided I should be checked and not shot. Even after a full 70+ hours of pushing for my lynch and trying to make a case (a ludicrous one) against me. And when asked about why he wanted a check on me instead of a shot, merely said "I respect you and want you to be given a trial and lynched over being shot". Cause clearly if I was mafia, giving me another day to muck my influence around and cause a mess in thread if I wanted to, is totally an ok thing according to him. If you go read my exchanges with him you'll clearly see he's pushing an agenda.
lol.
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On November 19 2011 05:28 GreYMisT wrote:@Wherebugsgo (not quoting for the sake of readability) With the two people I voted for flipping town, I have to reevaluate a lot of my thoughts, but what I do want to call everyone's attention to is prplhz. Some of us voiced our suspicions of him during the day, but I would like to bring them to light once again. 1st off over half of his posts focus on lurkers, well beyond the time the discussion should have been over with. Like I said earlier these posts are very easy to do as mafia, so while it is not a "scumtell" persay, it definatly raises a red flag in my book. I decided to keep my eye on him, and this is what I saw. His reason to vote kenpachi: Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 18:23 prplhz wrote:
Yea I like Kenpachi as a lynch too
##Vote Kenpachi And his subsequent votes later in the day. + Show Spoiler +On November 16 2011 23:52 prplhz wrote:
I AM GOING TO VOTE FOR DRAZERK BECAUSE HE IS SCUM
##Vote Drazerk On November 17 2011 00:12 prplhz wrote:
NO CASE NEEDED DRAZERK IS SCUM On November 17 2011 11:18 prplhz wrote:
START VOTING DRAZERK HIRORUBY AND CYBER_CHEESE
STOP VOTING LANAIA AND CHAOSER
##Vote Cyber_Cheese
ALSO WTF ABOUT KENPACHI GG SON SORRY FOR MY VOTE On November 18 2011 10:53 prplhz wrote:
##Vote bumatlarge
oh my god you suck
MORE PEOPLE ON DRAZERK, HIRORUBY, AND CYBER_CHEESE
LESS PEOPLE ON SINANI206
THANK YOU i dont know if this is his attempt to appear as an aggressive townie, or if this is just him being bad, but If he doesnt shape up when the night ends he has my vote.
yeah at the moment I'm wary of prpl as well. There are bigger fish to fry though, for the most part we can just ignore him. He has no influence on town and if he is town (which is certainly possible) we just ignore him till he gets fed up of it and starts contributing.
You can go ahead and vote him if you'd like tomorrow. I personally will not focus on him because there is nothing to focus on. I'd prefer that players choose more influential players and focus on analyzing them instead. We need to consider players who will generate more discussion, such as chaoser, LSB, and bumatlarge, all of whom I think at this point are likely to be scum. Once the last part of the day starts coming around we can begin consolidating votes on the best candidates.
Nisani is a good vig shot tonight and LSB/chaoser/bum are all good DT checks.
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what are your thoughts on prp WBG? my response to your earlier question is above.
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lol.
Ignoring prpl for now, who would you push as scum tomorrow?
Who are you interested in analyzing and looking more into?
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Why are you calling for a vig shot on me when you just said in your last post that it's better to get lynched so we can get discussion?
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On November 19 2011 05:55 Nisani201 wrote:
Why are you calling for a vig shot on me when you just said in your last post that it's better to get lynched so we can get discussion?
I read this post and laughed. I'll respond to it, I guess.
No one cares if you get lynched. You're also mountains of useless as town, so honestly if we try pushing your lynch and you don't contribute to finding scum then we still don't know your alignment.
Chaoser is the opposite. People will care if we start pushing his lynch, and as town he is useful. Thus, if he actually is town he will hopefully contribute to us finding scum. If chaoser is scum we'll get good reactions out of other scum too.
If you're scum, you're easy as hell to bus. If I were scum, for example, I'd bus the fuck out of you as soon as you had suspicion. You're more of a liability to your team than a benefit. That makes you a better vig target than a lynch target, since the discussion created in your wake will be completely useless.
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Here's a transcript of our hole conversation for anyone that wants to read
+ Show Spoiler [Palmar 1] +On November 18 2011 23:03 Palmar wrote:
@risk.nuke:
Expecting town to stop playing like shit is pretty futile. Did you read sinani206's role? He could easily have claimed that and then stopped actions for one night to prove that at least he was telling the truth about his role. However, sinani206 doesn't actually want to win as town, so he chooses to troll instead.
Another example is Lanaia, she's not new to mafia, and anyone who gives the issue half a thought should understand why what she did was bad. That didn't stop her.
Still, there is a marked difference between the apathy of Sinani206 and for example the aggressive uselessness of Nisani201, which is why I concluded the former wasn't mafia, and the latter was.
As for townies, any medics should be protecting into this group of players:
Forumite
Tyrren
risk.nuke
Palmar
Wherebugsgo
If we have investigative roles, we should be checking into this group of players
chaoser
Lemonwalrus
Greymist
Bumatlarge
Zephirdd
If we have vigilantes they should be focusing on people who are hellbent on being useless and scummy to boot.
Nisani201
Drazerk
xskxc
etc
etc
Yes, i'm directing blues, what about it bitches?
+ Show Spoiler [Chaoser 1] +On November 18 2011 23:40 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +Another example is Lanaia, she's not new to mafia, and anyone who gives the issue half a thought should understand why what she did was bad. That didn't stop her The fuck? How is Lanaia not new? She's played under 5 games here. The first time I played with her (Insane 2 mafia), she accidentally leaked that she was king and then died for it. She didn't do so well in the next normal game she played in either, posting this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=204956¤tpage=54#1069and then getting replaced. So how is Lanaia not new again? And how does being not new or being new relate to whether someone is good or not? I started playing in like 2009 or so and I didn't get better than shit until recently in relative time. GM decided it was a good idea to fake claim medic on the night before LYLO and he's been here forever/played way more when compared to Lanaia. This is such bad logic of "she did something bad, she deserves to die" Oh and also: Show nested quote +We should be voting to lynch at least one person based on analysis, and that person should be chaoser. Show nested quote +my attention is completely on chaoser, whom I consider very likely to be scum at the moment. Show nested quote +I accuse chaoser of not playing optimally for being a vanilla town, and because that's his claim and his play doesn't match, therefore he must be scum You're on my dick for the whole day and when you decide it's time to direct blue roles you decide the best thing for me is: Show nested quote +If we have investigative roles, we should be checking into this group of players
chaoser ??? Why didn't you put me in the: Show nested quote +If we have vigilantes they should be focusing on people who are hellbent on being useless and scummy to boot. list? On November 18 2011 23:44 chaoser wrote:
Since, according to you, I've been useless as well as scummy to boot
+ Show Spoiler [Palmar 2] +On November 18 2011 23:50 Palmar wrote:
I was under the impression Lanaia has played quite a bit on globalgamers (IRC mafia) I recall something about that from PTP2. If I'm wrong, well then I'm sorry I guess.
Because chaoser, believe it or not, my entire case against you is based on the assumption that you're very good at mafia, I said right at the start of the game that you are a top 5 player in this game. If I happen to be wrong, I would like to minimize the damage town takes from me being wrong. Now I don't think I am wrong, but I am playing to win, not playing to prove myself awesome.
You will not be useless if you're town, I trust that. So I see no reason you should be shot like any common scummy fucker, you deserve a trial and a lynch.
In palmar 2 he actually admits to LSB's point against him that it's all based on his belief that I'm "good at mafia" and currently he doesn't think I am being good.
+ Show Spoiler [Chaoser 2] +On November 18 2011 23:53 chaoser wrote:
lol...so the reason you don't want me shot, even though you think i'm like 90% mafia is because you respect me...and thus I deserve a trial and lynch instead of a bullet?
+ Show Spoiler [Palmar 3] +On November 18 2011 23:56 Palmar wrote:
yah, do you have a problem with that?
Like, I'm almost just as certain that nisani201 is scum, and I don't care if some hero of the town shoots him and leaves him dead in a ditch, he's not going to be useful anyway. Even if he's town nothing of value was lost. On November 18 2011 23:58 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2011 23:55 chaoser wrote:Because chaoser, believe it or not, my entire case against you is based on the assumption that you're very good at mafia, I said right at the start of the game that you are a top 5 player in this game. If I happen to be wrong, I would like to minimize the damage town takes from me being wrong. So you're saying your case has no weight in it at all since it's entirely based on the fact that in your mind I'm not playing "good" (I think you mean well). And was that a backhanded insult lol? The case does of course have weight in it, but yes, if someone else had done exactly what you did I may have drawn a different conclusion. Why do you care so much?
+ Show Spoiler [Chaoser 3] +On November 18 2011 23:55 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +Because chaoser, believe it or not, my entire case against you is based on the assumption that you're very good at mafia, I said right at the start of the game that you are a top 5 player in this game. If I happen to be wrong, I would like to minimize the damage town takes from me being wrong. So you're saying your case has no weight in it at all since it's entirely based on the fact that in your mind I'm not playing "good" (I think you mean well). And was that a backhanded insult lol? On November 19 2011 00:05 chaoser wrote:
Oh also, you never answered my question about why you thought kenpachi was a good lynch but sinani wasn't an equally good lynch.
+ Show Spoiler [Palmar 4] +On November 19 2011 00:10 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 00:05 chaoser wrote:
Oh also, you never answered my question about why you thought kenpachi was a good lynch but sinani wasn't an equally good lynch. Cause I'm awesome, also, as risk.nuke pointed out, lynching Kenpachi was a good way of handling the Lanaia/Kenpachi situation. sinani206 didn't look like scum, I said it in the the thread that the easiest explanation was that he was town. Of course town went ahead and lynched him anyway, but hey... that's what towns tend to do.
+ Show Spoiler [Chaoser 4] +On November 19 2011 00:15 chaoser wrote:Oh and also: Show nested quote +Thing is, he's throwing around one-liners. Drazerk generally at least tries to look town when he's town, but maybe this is the latest development in town play, a lot of players (myself, for example) get a bit cocky once they're over their newbie phase.
However, we know Drazerk isn't dumb. The only attack he's actually made in the game is against a newbie, which is a safe attack (attacking a veteran as scum is risky, cause they will call you out), and he wasn't completely convinced by my case on chaoser. (He never does until he's asked about it again...a day later) Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 23:29 Palmar wrote:On November 17 2011 23:24 xsksc wrote:
Palmar, what are your thoughts on Drazerk?
While I agree that Chaos would be a decent lynch, I see Drazerk as way more suspicious at the moment and I'd rather lynch him. Drazerk has done some extremely bad things this game, the most hilarious of all was when he went through his own games go convince us he's bad at this. I mean... I have no words, his actual defense is that he is terrible at mafia? I would be fine with lynching Drazerk or even Bumatlarge. I just want another lynch outside of Kenpachi, and I have been convinced that Lanaia should be left alive for now, mostly by risk.nuke and tyrren whom I both consider town. I don't have time right now to build a case against Drazerk, and because I only think we should lynch one person outside of Kenpachi today, my attention is completely on chaoser, whom I consider very likely to be scum at the moment. We need a single lynch for today based on analysis. We've already achieved a Kenpachi lynch, and we're ruling out Lanaia for now. I think this lynch should be chaoser, but I encourage people to make a case for someone else. (He still doesn't do it) (Unvotes the guy?) Show nested quote +If we have vigilantes they should be focusing on people who are hellbent on being useless and scummy to boot.
Nisani201
Drazerk
xskxc (But then wants to shoot him?) Show nested quote +Click your own filter, you have 1 post that consists of more than 5-ish lines, and even that has very little information. Your primary responsibility as town is to establish your innocence and being transparent, with almost nothing to go on except you chasing after Drazerk you look pretty bad.
In fact, the fact that you question it so genuinely is probably the most townie thing you've done the entire game. That doesn't change the fact that while we are aware you want to lynch Drazerk, you haven't done much to share any of your other reads. (Then bitches at xskxc for "only going after Drazerk" when he himself has predominately only gone after me?) I is confused
+ Show Spoiler [Palmar 5] +On November 19 2011 00:18 Palmar wrote:
Accusing me of changing my mind?
And what are you implying with "doesn't do it"? I forgot to write an analysis on Tyrran, but I later delivered (and was pleasantly surprised by what I found).
Stop posting this bullshit, I'm trying to read through everyone's filter.
+ Show Spoiler [Chaoser 5] +On November 19 2011 00:21 chaoser wrote:
pst, btw, if you really thought I was scum and wanted me dead for it, you'd shoot me cause clearly, going by my vote numbers on day 1, I'm nowhere close to being suspected as scum. So if I'm actually as good a player as you say I am, surely if I was mafia I could avoid being lynched for a few more days while "mucking things up" as you say I've been doing day one. Why allow me that chance when you could have just asked for someone to shoot me?
TL,DR: If I'm scum then surely allowing me a chance to "stand trial and be lynched" would be more trouble and more of a mess for town than just asking a vigi to shoot me. So why are you doing that?
+ Show Spoiler [Palmar 6] +On November 19 2011 00:23 Palmar wrote:
Cause I'm only 90% confident in my reads, like, I know I'm on something like a 8-9 game streak of pushing mafia as day 1 lynch when I'm town, but that doesn't give me the right to be cocky or arrogant about it. Now go read the rest of the game, you're getting boring.
+ Show Spoiler [Chaoser 6] +On November 19 2011 00:25 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 00:23 Palmar wrote:
Cause I'm only 90% confident in my reads, like, I know I'm on something like a 8-9 game streak of pushing mafia as day 1 lynch when I'm town, but that doesn't give me the right to be cocky or arrogant about it. Now go read the rest of the game, you're getting boring. wow...I didn't realize being 90% confident in your reads would still mean you doubt them so much that you'd want someone to be investigated instead of killed on the spot. So that must mean you're more then 90% confident that Drazerk and such are mafia? Since you asked for them to be shot? On November 19 2011 00:26 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2011 18:56 Palmar wrote:
Sinani206's play is so far from optimal for town that it's borderline disgusting, that doesn't change the fact I deduced he wasn't mafia and did not vote for him. I did not expect sinani206 to play well, he never does.
You didn't expect sinani to play well and yet you somehow expected Lanaia and Kenpachi to play well and because Lanaia made a mistake/didn't play well she needed to be lynched? Mind blown On November 19 2011 00:28 chaoser wrote:Why are you afraid of the pressure Palmar? I'm just trying to be a good player like you said I was
+ Show Spoiler [Palmar 7] +On November 19 2011 00:29 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 00:25 chaoser wrote:On November 19 2011 00:23 Palmar wrote:
Cause I'm only 90% confident in my reads, like, I know I'm on something like a 8-9 game streak of pushing mafia as day 1 lynch when I'm town, but that doesn't give me the right to be cocky or arrogant about it. Now go read the rest of the game, you're getting boring. wow...I didn't realize being 90% confident in your reads would still mean you doubt them so much that you'd want someone to be investigated instead of killed on the spot. So that must mean you're more then 90% confident that Drazerk and such are mafia? Since you asked for them to be shot? Please stop the ridiculousness already. You are active and smart enough to be properly interrogated, you're going to provide cases and you will show your true colors. Shitty people will probably just respond with oneliners and useless stuff, so they're better dealt with by vigilantes. You know this.
+ Show Spoiler [Chaoser 7] +On November 19 2011 00:34 chaoser wrote:
And yet on day one you wanted to outright lynch me and to deny me the chance to "show my true colors" while coag gets a pass because he would "show his true colors" as the game went on.
+ Show Spoiler [Palmer 8] +On November 19 2011 00:43 Palmar wrote:
yes, and if I had managed to convince enough people to lynch you, we'd have had great discussion about it on day 1, but you were never in enough danger for that to emerge. Are you being intentionally thick chaoser? I didn't want to lynch you with no discussion, I wanted people to read my arguments and agree with me. Maybe that'll happen on day 2.
+ Show Spoiler [Chaoser 8] +On November 19 2011 00:46 chaoser wrote:
So you're saying your wanting to outright lynch me is needed to create "great discussion" and thus it was a ploy to make me "show my true colors". Then what was with saying coag would "show his true colors" and giving him a pass? Shouldn't you have also wanted to outright lynch him and then that would in turn create "great discussion" and make him show his "true colors"?
+ Show Spoiler [Palmar 9] +On November 19 2011 00:50 Palmar wrote:
Whatever, I'm going to ignore you for now.
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On November 19 2011 06:01 chaoser wrote:Here's a transcript of our hole conversation for anyone that wants to read + Show Spoiler [Palmar 1] +On November 18 2011 23:03 Palmar wrote:
@risk.nuke:
Expecting town to stop playing like shit is pretty futile. Did you read sinani206's role? He could easily have claimed that and then stopped actions for one night to prove that at least he was telling the truth about his role. However, sinani206 doesn't actually want to win as town, so he chooses to troll instead.
Another example is Lanaia, she's not new to mafia, and anyone who gives the issue half a thought should understand why what she did was bad. That didn't stop her.
Still, there is a marked difference between the apathy of Sinani206 and for example the aggressive uselessness of Nisani201, which is why I concluded the former wasn't mafia, and the latter was.
As for townies, any medics should be protecting into this group of players:
Forumite
Tyrren
risk.nuke
Palmar
Wherebugsgo
If we have investigative roles, we should be checking into this group of players
chaoser
Lemonwalrus
Greymist
Bumatlarge
Zephirdd
If we have vigilantes they should be focusing on people who are hellbent on being useless and scummy to boot.
Nisani201
Drazerk
xskxc
etc
etc
Yes, i'm directing blues, what about it bitches?
On November 18 2011 23:40 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +Another example is Lanaia, she's not new to mafia, and anyone who gives the issue half a thought should understand why what she did was bad. That didn't stop her The fuck? How is Lanaia not new? She's played under 5 games here. The first time I played with her (Insane 2 mafia), she accidentally leaked that she was king and then died for it. She didn't do so well in the next normal game she played in either, posting this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=204956¤tpage=54#1069and then getting replaced. So how is Lanaia not new again? And how does being not new or being new relate to whether someone is good or not? I started playing in like 2009 or so and I didn't get better than shit until recently in relative time. GM decided it was a good idea to fake claim medic on the night before LYLO and he's been here forever/played way more when compared to Lanaia. This is such bad logic of "she did something bad, she deserves to die" Oh and also: Show nested quote +We should be voting to lynch at least one person based on analysis, and that person should be chaoser. Show nested quote +my attention is completely on chaoser, whom I consider very likely to be scum at the moment. Show nested quote +I accuse chaoser of not playing optimally for being a vanilla town, and because that's his claim and his play doesn't match, therefore he must be scum You're on my dick for the whole day and when you decide it's time to direct blue roles you decide the best thing for me is: Show nested quote +If we have investigative roles, we should be checking into this group of players
chaoser ??? Why didn't you put me in the: Show nested quote +If we have vigilantes they should be focusing on people who are hellbent on being useless and scummy to boot. list? On November 18 2011 23:44 chaoser wrote:
Since, according to you, I've been useless as well as scummy to boot On November 18 2011 23:50 Palmar wrote:
I was under the impression Lanaia has played quite a bit on globalgamers (IRC mafia) I recall something about that from PTP2. If I'm wrong, well then I'm sorry I guess.
Because chaoser, believe it or not, my entire case against you is based on the assumption that you're very good at mafia, I said right at the start of the game that you are a top 5 player in this game. If I happen to be wrong, I would like to minimize the damage town takes from me being wrong. Now I don't think I am wrong, but I am playing to win, not playing to prove myself awesome.
You will not be useless if you're town, I trust that. So I see no reason you should be shot like any common scummy fucker, you deserve a trial and a lynch. In palmar 2 he actually admits to LSB's point against him that it's all based on his belief that I'm "good at mafia" and currently he doesn't think I am being good. + Show Spoiler [Chaoser 2] +On November 18 2011 23:53 chaoser wrote:
lol...so the reason you don't want me shot, even though you think i'm like 90% mafia is because you respect me...and thus I deserve a trial and lynch instead of a bullet? On November 18 2011 23:56 Palmar wrote:
yah, do you have a problem with that?
Like, I'm almost just as certain that nisani201 is scum, and I don't care if some hero of the town shoots him and leaves him dead in a ditch, he's not going to be useful anyway. Even if he's town nothing of value was lost. On November 18 2011 23:58 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2011 23:55 chaoser wrote:Because chaoser, believe it or not, my entire case against you is based on the assumption that you're very good at mafia, I said right at the start of the game that you are a top 5 player in this game. If I happen to be wrong, I would like to minimize the damage town takes from me being wrong. So you're saying your case has no weight in it at all since it's entirely based on the fact that in your mind I'm not playing "good" (I think you mean well). And was that a backhanded insult lol? The case does of course have weight in it, but yes, if someone else had done exactly what you did I may have drawn a different conclusion. Why do you care so much? On November 18 2011 23:55 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +Because chaoser, believe it or not, my entire case against you is based on the assumption that you're very good at mafia, I said right at the start of the game that you are a top 5 player in this game. If I happen to be wrong, I would like to minimize the damage town takes from me being wrong. So you're saying your case has no weight in it at all since it's entirely based on the fact that in your mind I'm not playing "good" (I think you mean well). And was that a backhanded insult lol? On November 19 2011 00:05 chaoser wrote:
Oh also, you never answered my question about why you thought kenpachi was a good lynch but sinani wasn't an equally good lynch. On November 19 2011 00:10 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 00:05 chaoser wrote:
Oh also, you never answered my question about why you thought kenpachi was a good lynch but sinani wasn't an equally good lynch. Cause I'm awesome, also, as risk.nuke pointed out, lynching Kenpachi was a good way of handling the Lanaia/Kenpachi situation. sinani206 didn't look like scum, I said it in the the thread that the easiest explanation was that he was town. Of course town went ahead and lynched him anyway, but hey... that's what towns tend to do. On November 19 2011 00:15 chaoser wrote:Oh and also: Show nested quote +Thing is, he's throwing around one-liners. Drazerk generally at least tries to look town when he's town, but maybe this is the latest development in town play, a lot of players (myself, for example) get a bit cocky once they're over their newbie phase.
However, we know Drazerk isn't dumb. The only attack he's actually made in the game is against a newbie, which is a safe attack (attacking a veteran as scum is risky, cause they will call you out), and he wasn't completely convinced by my case on chaoser. (He never does until he's asked about it again...a day later) Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 23:29 Palmar wrote:On November 17 2011 23:24 xsksc wrote:
Palmar, what are your thoughts on Drazerk?
While I agree that Chaos would be a decent lynch, I see Drazerk as way more suspicious at the moment and I'd rather lynch him. Drazerk has done some extremely bad things this game, the most hilarious of all was when he went through his own games go convince us he's bad at this. I mean... I have no words, his actual defense is that he is terrible at mafia? I would be fine with lynching Drazerk or even Bumatlarge. I just want another lynch outside of Kenpachi, and I have been convinced that Lanaia should be left alive for now, mostly by risk.nuke and tyrren whom I both consider town. I don't have time right now to build a case against Drazerk, and because I only think we should lynch one person outside of Kenpachi today, my attention is completely on chaoser, whom I consider very likely to be scum at the moment. We need a single lynch for today based on analysis. We've already achieved a Kenpachi lynch, and we're ruling out Lanaia for now. I think this lynch should be chaoser, but I encourage people to make a case for someone else. (He still doesn't do it) (Unvotes the guy?) Show nested quote +If we have vigilantes they should be focusing on people who are hellbent on being useless and scummy to boot.
Nisani201
Drazerk
xskxc (But then wants to shoot him?) Show nested quote +Click your own filter, you have 1 post that consists of more than 5-ish lines, and even that has very little information. Your primary responsibility as town is to establish your innocence and being transparent, with almost nothing to go on except you chasing after Drazerk you look pretty bad.
In fact, the fact that you question it so genuinely is probably the most townie thing you've done the entire game. That doesn't change the fact that while we are aware you want to lynch Drazerk, you haven't done much to share any of your other reads. (Then bitches at xskxc for "only going after Drazerk" when he himself has predominately only gone after me?) I is confused On November 19 2011 00:18 Palmar wrote:
Accusing me of changing my mind?
And what are you implying with "doesn't do it"? I forgot to write an analysis on Tyrran, but I later delivered (and was pleasantly surprised by what I found).
Stop posting this bullshit, I'm trying to read through everyone's filter. On November 19 2011 00:21 chaoser wrote:
pst, btw, if you really thought I was scum and wanted me dead for it, you'd shoot me cause clearly, going by my vote numbers on day 1, I'm nowhere close to being suspected as scum. So if I'm actually as good a player as you say I am, surely if I was mafia I could avoid being lynched for a few more days while "mucking things up" as you say I've been doing day one. Why allow me that chance when you could have just asked for someone to shoot me?
TL,DR: If I'm scum then surely allowing me a chance to "stand trial and be lynched" would be more trouble and more of a mess for town than just asking a vigi to shoot me. So why are you doing that? On November 19 2011 00:23 Palmar wrote:
Cause I'm only 90% confident in my reads, like, I know I'm on something like a 8-9 game streak of pushing mafia as day 1 lynch when I'm town, but that doesn't give me the right to be cocky or arrogant about it. Now go read the rest of the game, you're getting boring. On November 19 2011 00:25 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 00:23 Palmar wrote:
Cause I'm only 90% confident in my reads, like, I know I'm on something like a 8-9 game streak of pushing mafia as day 1 lynch when I'm town, but that doesn't give me the right to be cocky or arrogant about it. Now go read the rest of the game, you're getting boring. wow...I didn't realize being 90% confident in your reads would still mean you doubt them so much that you'd want someone to be investigated instead of killed on the spot. So that must mean you're more then 90% confident that Drazerk and such are mafia? Since you asked for them to be shot? On November 19 2011 00:26 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2011 18:56 Palmar wrote:
Sinani206's play is so far from optimal for town that it's borderline disgusting, that doesn't change the fact I deduced he wasn't mafia and did not vote for him. I did not expect sinani206 to play well, he never does.
You didn't expect sinani to play well and yet you somehow expected Lanaia and Kenpachi to play well and because Lanaia made a mistake/didn't play well she needed to be lynched? Mind blown On November 19 2011 00:28 chaoser wrote:Why are you afraid of the pressure Palmar? I'm just trying to be a good player like you said I was On November 19 2011 00:29 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 00:25 chaoser wrote:On November 19 2011 00:23 Palmar wrote:
Cause I'm only 90% confident in my reads, like, I know I'm on something like a 8-9 game streak of pushing mafia as day 1 lynch when I'm town, but that doesn't give me the right to be cocky or arrogant about it. Now go read the rest of the game, you're getting boring. wow...I didn't realize being 90% confident in your reads would still mean you doubt them so much that you'd want someone to be investigated instead of killed on the spot. So that must mean you're more then 90% confident that Drazerk and such are mafia? Since you asked for them to be shot? Please stop the ridiculousness already. You are active and smart enough to be properly interrogated, you're going to provide cases and you will show your true colors. Shitty people will probably just respond with oneliners and useless stuff, so they're better dealt with by vigilantes. You know this. On November 19 2011 00:34 chaoser wrote:
And yet on day one you wanted to outright lynch me and to deny me the chance to "show my true colors" while coag gets a pass because he would "show his true colors" as the game went on. On November 19 2011 00:43 Palmar wrote:
yes, and if I had managed to convince enough people to lynch you, we'd have had great discussion about it on day 1, but you were never in enough danger for that to emerge. Are you being intentionally thick chaoser? I didn't want to lynch you with no discussion, I wanted people to read my arguments and agree with me. Maybe that'll happen on day 2. On November 19 2011 00:46 chaoser wrote:
So you're saying your wanting to outright lynch me is needed to create "great discussion" and thus it was a ploy to make me "show my true colors". Then what was with saying coag would "show his true colors" and giving him a pass? Shouldn't you have also wanted to outright lynch him and then that would in turn create "great discussion" and make him show his "true colors"? On November 19 2011 00:50 Palmar wrote:
Whatever, I'm going to ignore you for now.
lol.
he currently thinks you're not being good as town.
If you're scum you're not playing so bad, half the town doesn't suspect you yet.
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On November 19 2011 05:53 wherebugsgo wrote:
lol.
Ignoring prpl for now, who would you push as scum tomorrow?
Who are you interested in analyzing and looking more into?
Aside from prpl I would like to take a more in depth look at Bumatlarge. I felt like earlier forumite made a good point about scum probally only wanting to be on one of the lynches, and I feel kenpachi's lynch is where we are most likely to find them if what he said is true. Bum was on the kenpachi wagon, however very close to the end of the day (10 minuteish remaining) he was saying he was unsure about pushing sinani and he wanted to look more into it. While that is fine earlier on with 10 mintues left there really is no time for such delays. If he was scum that would have been the perfect way for him to distance himself from someone he knew would flip town.
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On November 19 2011 06:03 GreYMisT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 05:53 wherebugsgo wrote:
lol.
Ignoring prpl for now, who would you push as scum tomorrow?
Who are you interested in analyzing and looking more into? Aside from prpl I would like to take a more in depth look at Bumatlarge. I felt like earlier forumite made a good point about scum probally only wanting to be on one of the lynches, and I feel kenpachi's lynch is where we are most likely to find them if what he said is true. Bum was on the kenpachi wagon, however very close to the end of the day (10 minuteish remaining) he was saying he was unsure about pushing sinani and he wanted to look more into it. While that is fine earlier on with 10 mintues left there really is no time for such delays. If he was scum that would have been the perfect way for him to distance himself from someone he knew would flip town.
Right, Nisani did something very similar with Kenpachi. He kinda went "wait can I unvote him?" as soon as Kenpachi got hammered.
I wouldn't be terribly shocked if all three of nisani+bum+chaoser are scum, their personal interactions are quite sparse.
Chaoser what do you think of Nisani?
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Chaoser attacks Palmar over this but doesn't attack his logic. Notice there is nothing in this post about how Palmar's logic is bad or how he is trying to make something up. This is because chaoser knows that he can't attack Palmar's logic, so he must resort to attacking Palmar on other grounds. Here he chooses a mistake (that pretty much anyone could make) and makes into something gigantically bad, something he tends to do as scum in order to make his accuser look bad.
In the second part of the post, look at his outrage over being classified as a check target instead of a vig target. Most vets play with the idea of vigging lurkier scum and getting the more active ones lynched, since this creates bigger discussion and adds pressure to the other scum.
When we lynch active scum, other scum are forced to discuss the lynch, which often incriminates them instead. When we vig active scum, the opposite effect is true; the guy dies, and we have no discussion about it. This is why it's almost always optimal to kill scummy lurkers or scum who will never get lynched. This is not true for chaoser; he can get lynched. It won't be easy, but that's because chaoser is good. In addition, it will hopefully be a big topic of discussion, as plenty of people will ask why or will demand to know how chaoser is scum.
Wronggg. I shot the fuck out of Radfield. People shoot the fuck out of vet players all the time because it's easier to shoot them than have to try to convince a whole town with mafia included in them to lynch a vet player.
since this creates bigger discussion and adds pressure to the other scum.
I want you to give me ONE SINGLE INSTANCE where when mafia was suspected, instead of shooting them at night, they were let free to somehow allow for their fellow mafia members to incriminate themselves the next day. Oh wait, that's right, YOU CAN'T.
And are you kidding me? Tiny mistake? The guy was on my ass all day trying to lynch me and all of a sudden he's calling for a check? Thanks for admitting it was a mistake on his part though.
Oh, and I'm not attacking his logic cause 1) LSB did a great job and 2) Palmar had no logic
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yawn, really WBG, you're pretty bad as mafia.
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You did the same thing in Team Melee with your shitty forced arguments against me btw
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On November 19 2011 06:00 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 05:55 Nisani201 wrote:
Why are you calling for a vig shot on me when you just said in your last post that it's better to get lynched so we can get discussion? I read this post and laughed. I'll respond to it, I guess. No one cares if you get lynched. You're also mountains of useless as town, so honestly if we try pushing your lynch and you don't contribute to finding scum then we still don't know your alignment. Chaoser is the opposite. People will care if we start pushing his lynch, and as town he is useful. Thus, if he actually is town he will hopefully contribute to us finding scum. If chaoser is scum we'll get good reactions out of other scum too. If you're scum, you're easy as hell to bus. If I were scum, for example, I'd bus the fuck out of you as soon as you had suspicion. You're more of a liability to your team than a benefit. That makes you a better vig target than a lynch target, since the discussion created in your wake will be completely useless.
So you're saying I should be vigged instead of a lurker?
loooool
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On November 19 2011 06:07 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +Chaoser attacks Palmar over this but doesn't attack his logic. Notice there is nothing in this post about how Palmar's logic is bad or how he is trying to make something up. This is because chaoser knows that he can't attack Palmar's logic, so he must resort to attacking Palmar on other grounds. Here he chooses a mistake (that pretty much anyone could make) and makes into something gigantically bad, something he tends to do as scum in order to make his accuser look bad.
In the second part of the post, look at his outrage over being classified as a check target instead of a vig target. Most vets play with the idea of vigging lurkier scum and getting the more active ones lynched, since this creates bigger discussion and adds pressure to the other scum.
When we lynch active scum, other scum are forced to discuss the lynch, which often incriminates them instead. When we vig active scum, the opposite effect is true; the guy dies, and we have no discussion about it. This is why it's almost always optimal to kill scummy lurkers or scum who will never get lynched. This is not true for chaoser; he can get lynched. It won't be easy, but that's because chaoser is good. In addition, it will hopefully be a big topic of discussion, as plenty of people will ask why or will demand to know how chaoser is scum. Wronggg. I shot the fuck out of Radfield. People shoot the fuck out of vet players all the time because it's easier to shoot them than have to try to convince a whole town with mafia included in them to lynch a vet player. I want you to give me ONE SINGLE INSTANCE where when mafia was suspected, instead of shooting them at night, they were let free to somehow allow for their fellow mafia members to incriminate themselves the next day. Oh wait, that's right, YOU CAN'T. And are you kidding me? Tiny mistake? The guy was on my ass all day trying to lynch me and all of a sudden he's calling for a check? Thanks for admitting it was a mistake on his part though. Oh, and I'm not attacking his logic cause 1) LSB did a great job and 2) Palmar had no logic
Yeah except you weren't playing as town when you shot Radfield, did you? Why didn't the actual town vigilantes, like sandroba, shoot Radfield?
Why are you using selective evidence to further your case? It might be easier for scum to shoot people than lynch them, but town cannot rely on vigilantes to do our job of killing scum. You actually start with the assumption that town have no blues. In this case this whole discussion is pointless, since if we don't have vigilantes you're just moaning about some completely irrelevant issue about why you should be lynched instead of vigged.
[quote]
[quote]since this creates bigger discussion and adds pressure to the other scum. [/quote]
Sure.
XLIV. Town vig didn't shoot Mig, we got a lot of discussion on day 2 that painted Foolish as sure-town and I used the reactions in the thread to suspect BB/bumatlarge, whom I later correctly accused of being scum.
If Mig had been shot instead of lynched I probably wouldn't have seen the way BB/bum reacted to the lynch.
On n1 when you have multiple scum targets you can't shoot them all. Some are better off being shot, some are better off being lynched. So, you direct the vigilantes to target the ones who are probably never going to do anything during day, so trying to lynch them will create no forward movement, but need to die because of that reason.
You can change the movement of a lynch at any time. If we think you are town we can avoid making the mistake of lynching you. If you are town we cannot control the vigilante to not shoot you. We can influence the vig but once the vigilante decides (generally on his/her own accord) there's no turning back. That's why you want to get rid of useless people with vig shots, since they won't be missed even if they are somehow town.
However if we have a vig shoot you and you're actually town we lose a lot, because there is no discussion in that effort to kill you, and we lose a bunch of contribution time. With a lynch there's a full 72 hours where, if you are town, you can contribute to finding the scum we are missing.
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EPT
