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On November 17 2011 07:32 hyshes wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 07:21 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:
I'm going to hold off voting on Lanaia for now. While double voting or anti-voting is certainly powerful for both scum and for town, it is a lot less useful for scum if it is prominently announced for all to see on the vote list. If Lanaia is town, presumably scum will eventually settle the issue. If Lanaia is scum, it will be hard for her to use her ability without blatantly giving things away later on. Also, unless she thought her anti-vote would be hidden, I find it hard to believe scum would be so brash on day 1.
That being said, I am going to vote for Drazerk. I said if he didn't give a good reason for his vote I'd be voting for him, and I intend to follow through on that. He seems to like trumpeting the fact that he has generally sucked as town, and overall I think his contributions have not exactly been helping to create a good town atmosphere. His repeated mentions of how much he has screwed up as town in the past combined with his plethora of 1 liners and votes with little reason behind them makes it seem like he is trying to play anti-town and get away with it because it's just his meta.
Vote: Drazerk
Now I'm going to reread the thread some and see if there is someone else I'd like to place a vote on as well. You make a good point about lanaia. If she knew it would be public, it would be very weird that she did it as scum.
Yeah but what would a scum say when specifically asked? No?
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On November 17 2011 07:34 Cyber_Cheese wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 07:32 hyshes wrote:On November 17 2011 07:21 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:
I'm going to hold off voting on Lanaia for now. While double voting or anti-voting is certainly powerful for both scum and for town, it is a lot less useful for scum if it is prominently announced for all to see on the vote list. If Lanaia is town, presumably scum will eventually settle the issue. If Lanaia is scum, it will be hard for her to use her ability without blatantly giving things away later on. Also, unless she thought her anti-vote would be hidden, I find it hard to believe scum would be so brash on day 1.
That being said, I am going to vote for Drazerk. I said if he didn't give a good reason for his vote I'd be voting for him, and I intend to follow through on that. He seems to like trumpeting the fact that he has generally sucked as town, and overall I think his contributions have not exactly been helping to create a good town atmosphere. His repeated mentions of how much he has screwed up as town in the past combined with his plethora of 1 liners and votes with little reason behind them makes it seem like he is trying to play anti-town and get away with it because it's just his meta.
Vote: Drazerk
Now I'm going to reread the thread some and see if there is someone else I'd like to place a vote on as well. You make a good point about lanaia. If she knew it would be public, it would be very weird that she did it as scum. Yeah but what would a scum say when specifically asked? No?
Quoted the wrong post, someone asked if Lanaia knew about the anti-vote appearing.
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On November 17 2011 07:47 ZBot wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 07:45 Lemonwalrus wrote:
I think ZBot might be on the fritz, it didn't count my vote on Kenpachi, but it has counted HoB's vote on Drazerk which happened afterwards. I am looking into this right now.
ITS SELF AWARE!
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On November 17 2011 08:18 sinani206 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 18:14 Drazerk wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 16 2011 17:33 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:Calling out lurkers? Sure thing! And then we have hyshes: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=282366&user=132738As mentioned above, there is also Coagulation. I may very well be missing some, but hyshes and risk stood out to me since I played with them in my previous game. If we want to include people with more posts that are just all useless...well then the list becomes much longer :-) Hyshes is still very new I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't post much on day one + Show Spoiler +On November 16 2011 17:31 sinani206 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 17:27 wherebugsgo wrote:Coag is also a pretty good player, so if he's scum, he's capable of lurking and surviving. For the same reason he doesn't make a good day 1 lynch because if he's not scum, then scum will want to shoot him. On November 16 2011 16:26 sinani206 wrote:On November 16 2011 13:16 wherebugsgo wrote:
to clarify again, each person go for whoever they think is scummiest. That doesn't mean all of us go for the same person. This is completely stupid because some people have more than one read at a time. Why focus when you can divide (your attention) and conquer? No. yes No yes
No. Why are you discussing it still, and frankly, how are you this useless?
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On November 17 2011 08:32 sinani206 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 08:22 Drazerk wrote:On November 17 2011 08:18 sinani206 wrote:On November 16 2011 18:14 Drazerk wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 16 2011 17:33 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:Calling out lurkers? Sure thing! And then we have hyshes: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=282366&user=132738As mentioned above, there is also Coagulation. I may very well be missing some, but hyshes and risk stood out to me since I played with them in my previous game. If we want to include people with more posts that are just all useless...well then the list becomes much longer :-) Hyshes is still very new I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't post much on day one + Show Spoiler +On November 16 2011 17:31 sinani206 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 17:27 wherebugsgo wrote:Coag is also a pretty good player, so if he's scum, he's capable of lurking and surviving. For the same reason he doesn't make a good day 1 lynch because if he's not scum, then scum will want to shoot him. On November 16 2011 16:26 sinani206 wrote:On November 16 2011 13:16 wherebugsgo wrote:
to clarify again, each person go for whoever they think is scummiest. That doesn't mean all of us go for the same person. This is completely stupid because some people have more than one read at a time. Why focus when you can divide (your attention) and conquer? No. yes No yes no Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 08:24 Cyber_Cheese wrote:On November 17 2011 08:18 sinani206 wrote:On November 16 2011 18:14 Drazerk wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 16 2011 17:33 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:Calling out lurkers? Sure thing! And then we have hyshes: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=282366&user=132738As mentioned above, there is also Coagulation. I may very well be missing some, but hyshes and risk stood out to me since I played with them in my previous game. If we want to include people with more posts that are just all useless...well then the list becomes much longer :-) Hyshes is still very new I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't post much on day one + Show Spoiler +On November 16 2011 17:31 sinani206 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 17:27 wherebugsgo wrote:Coag is also a pretty good player, so if he's scum, he's capable of lurking and surviving. For the same reason he doesn't make a good day 1 lynch because if he's not scum, then scum will want to shoot him. On November 16 2011 16:26 sinani206 wrote:On November 16 2011 13:16 wherebugsgo wrote:
to clarify again, each person go for whoever they think is scummiest. That doesn't mean all of us go for the same person. This is completely stupid because some people have more than one read at a time. Why focus when you can divide (your attention) and conquer? No. yes No yes No. Why are you discussing it still, and frankly, how are you this useless? yes
Instead of repeatedly refreshing the page and making us correct you, go back, form some opinions, and tell us how you came to them.
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And by the way
##Unvote: Prplhz
##Vote: Sinani206
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On November 17 2011 08:36 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 08:35 Cyber_Cheese wrote:On November 17 2011 08:32 sinani206 wrote:On November 17 2011 08:22 Drazerk wrote:On November 17 2011 08:18 sinani206 wrote:On November 16 2011 18:14 Drazerk wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 16 2011 17:33 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:Calling out lurkers? Sure thing! And then we have hyshes: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=282366&user=132738As mentioned above, there is also Coagulation. I may very well be missing some, but hyshes and risk stood out to me since I played with them in my previous game. If we want to include people with more posts that are just all useless...well then the list becomes much longer :-) Hyshes is still very new I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't post much on day one + Show Spoiler +On November 16 2011 17:31 sinani206 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 17:27 wherebugsgo wrote:Coag is also a pretty good player, so if he's scum, he's capable of lurking and surviving. For the same reason he doesn't make a good day 1 lynch because if he's not scum, then scum will want to shoot him. On November 16 2011 16:26 sinani206 wrote:On November 16 2011 13:16 wherebugsgo wrote:
to clarify again, each person go for whoever they think is scummiest. That doesn't mean all of us go for the same person. This is completely stupid because some people have more than one read at a time. Why focus when you can divide (your attention) and conquer? No. yes No yes no On November 17 2011 08:24 Cyber_Cheese wrote:On November 17 2011 08:18 sinani206 wrote:On November 16 2011 18:14 Drazerk wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 16 2011 17:33 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:Calling out lurkers? Sure thing! And then we have hyshes: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=282366&user=132738As mentioned above, there is also Coagulation. I may very well be missing some, but hyshes and risk stood out to me since I played with them in my previous game. If we want to include people with more posts that are just all useless...well then the list becomes much longer :-) Hyshes is still very new I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't post much on day one + Show Spoiler +On November 16 2011 17:31 sinani206 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 17:27 wherebugsgo wrote:Coag is also a pretty good player, so if he's scum, he's capable of lurking and surviving. For the same reason he doesn't make a good day 1 lynch because if he's not scum, then scum will want to shoot him. On November 16 2011 16:26 sinani206 wrote:On November 16 2011 13:16 wherebugsgo wrote:
to clarify again, each person go for whoever they think is scummiest. That doesn't mean all of us go for the same person. This is completely stupid because some people have more than one read at a time. Why focus when you can divide (your attention) and conquer? No. yes No yes No. Why are you discussing it still, and frankly, how are you this useless? yes Instead of repeatedly refreshing the page and making us correct you, go back, form some opinions, and tell us how you came to them. Or just kill him so he stops being distracting
Usually I'd like to wait for something that looks scummy to me, but it's making for a very anti-town atmosphere so it'll have to do.
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On November 17 2011 08:43 sinani206 wrote:
Chaoser:
It's kind of sad how people disagree with me when I say he's scum. So obvious. His play this game is very very terrible and stuff.
Lanaia and Kenpachi: obvscum. Let me explain in case you are stupid. Kenpachi getting usual votes for being Kenpachi. Lanaia (scumbuddy) uses power to try to save him without realizing that it will show up on the vote list. Quickly removes anti-vote, but not before people see and you can even still see the anti-vote on the list. Epic fail by both.
Chaoser, specifics. What about his play made him seem like obvious scum to you?
Kenpachi, is getting votes for being himself, and that makes him scum?
Lanaia, This one makes sense, but do we need to kill both, just because we can?
Which of these two is more important than the other, and why?
Is there anyone outside of this whos play seems strange? And more importantly, do you have anything original to add to any cases on the people you suspect?
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I'd like to know what WBG thinks about Chaosers defeatism after his analysis. And for as long as I'm at it, his thoughts on Lanaia using her ability, and Kenpachi's defeatist attitude after being protected by Lanaia.
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On November 17 2011 08:58 Kenpachi wrote:now that i proved that you guys are indeed retards, i have no regrets. implies i have a role
On November 17 2011 08:59 Kenpachi wrote:
didnt want to. im against claiming
On November 15 2011 13:29 Kenpachi wrote:
real long day ok.
hi i am Kenpachi and i am a Townie
welcome to TL mafia to those who are just starting and i hope you have a good time here.
That is two lies in a game where we should be lynching all liars.
##Unvote: Coagulation
##Vote: Kenpachi
Typing ## and : is a pain.
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On November 17 2011 09:12 Drazerk wrote:
Yeah but Cheese voted for him so he is still dead
LaL is in effect. If he is townie, he's experienced and knows better than to be a dumbass, or needs to learn it pronto.
The whole issue we had with Kenpachi was lurking. If he chooses to fix that with self-sacrifice instead of actually helping, he deserves the appropriate response.
I brang him to 13 because his self-vote doesn't count apparently. Not that I knew that.
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On November 17 2011 09:20 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 09:19 Cyber_Cheese wrote:On November 17 2011 09:12 Drazerk wrote:
Yeah but Cheese voted for him so he is still dead LaL is in effect. If he is townie, he's experienced and knows better than to be a dumbass, or needs to learn it pronto. The whole issue we had with Kenpachi was lurking. If he chooses to fix that with self-sacrifice instead of actually helping, he deserves the appropriate response. I brang him to 13 because his self-vote doesn't count apparently. Not that I knew that. It's at 14 with your vote. He was at 13 and then he self voted.
is nobody else keeping track of the game?
On November 17 2011 09:11 Zona wrote:Shit, sorry, Kenpachi's self-vote shouldn't count, fixing...Show nested quote +During the day, any player may vote for as many other players as he or she wishes.
My vote was #14 yes, but the vote on himself was illegal, so we need one more.
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And here I thought I was the only one able to track the votes... derp.
Now instead of us mass derping around waiting for an new day, lets talk other candidates.
Kenpachi's fault was lurking originally. I think we're at a crossroads here where we could lynch another lurker or go for someone active.
I'm going to keep a vote on Chaoser, it'll take something short of a miracle to convince me that random voting wasn't just him putting suspicion everywhere and muddying the waters to make the place more anti-town.
Do we aim for three lynches?
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On November 17 2011 09:36 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 09:30 Lanaia wrote:
I really don't think we need to kill three people on the first day.
YES, I SCREWED UP...
But we already have one person dead because of something I did.
We really should not be lynching three people on the first day, or at least WE SHOULD MAKE ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE ONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE SAID VERY LITTLE SO FAR.
Wouldn't it be a pity if kenpachi, chaoser and I are all town? I know I'm town, kenpachi's actions since he've died feel town, and chaoser does not feel as scummy as some other people do. Do we really want to lose three town on a first day lynch?
I just looked through the OPs and I'm having trouble finding something. Is this like other TL mafia games in which mafia has more than one KP or is this like games I'm used to on MS where mafia only has one KP?
you're the one that needs to die, kenpachi wasn't a must, but getting rid of him is fine anyway. and chaoser is scum, so we need to kill him.
Wait for Kenpachi to flip before killing both of them, just in case.
On November 17 2011 09:39 Lanaia wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 09:36 Palmar wrote:On November 17 2011 09:30 Lanaia wrote:
I really don't think we need to kill three people on the first day.
YES, I SCREWED UP...
But we already have one person dead because of something I did.
We really should not be lynching three people on the first day, or at least WE SHOULD MAKE ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE ONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE SAID VERY LITTLE SO FAR.
Wouldn't it be a pity if kenpachi, chaoser and I are all town? I know I'm town, kenpachi's actions since he've died feel town, and chaoser does not feel as scummy as some other people do. Do we really want to lose three town on a first day lynch?
I just looked through the OPs and I'm having trouble finding something. Is this like other TL mafia games in which mafia has more than one KP or is this like games I'm used to on MS where mafia only has one KP?
you're the one that needs to die, kenpachi wasn't a must, but getting rid of him is fine anyway. and chaoser is scum, so we need to kill him. I'm sorry, but can you 100% explain to me why I need to die still? I've explained everything. I knew the antivote was going to appear, and does it really matter, CONSIDERING I could remove it? Or is it something other than that?
Stop apologising. Give us your opinion on how we should proceed with the rest of the day. Staying in the 'Kenpachi actually got lynched' mindset when we could be scum hunting is detrimental.
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On November 17 2011 09:42 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 09:41 DCLXVI wrote:On November 17 2011 09:32 chaoser wrote:On November 17 2011 09:28 DCLXVI wrote:really kenpachi? I don't know you but I didn't expect you to whine so much and give up. Even if the town is bad, you can at least try pointing out their errors instead of just bitching. @Zona can he be put on the banlist for this? I certainly don't want to play with him again: Play to win. Make your posts, and choose targets for your actions in order to help your team achieve its win condition. How can you say he didn't play to win? His case prompted a lot of discussion and activity. Get off your high horse; you're sure as hell not good enough to be bitching about Kenpachi "whining and giving up". since when is it a prerequisite to be good at this game to say that this means someone gave up? + Show Spoiler +On November 17 2011 06:41 Kenpachi wrote:
lol town sucks On November 17 2011 06:44 Kenpachi wrote:
alright, tell me. Where is this day going? its going to shit. you know why? you guys are lynching me.
Fact: When town lynches a town Kenpachi, they lose. you know why? because town sucks.
Killing off inactives with lynches is just so bad. lrn2play On November 17 2011 06:48 Kenpachi wrote:
im going to fucking shoot myself. Walrus and risk.nuke need more experience because this is ridiculous On November 17 2011 06:55 Kenpachi wrote:
i can do better than that. you guys are just so demoralizing On November 17 2011 07:06 Kenpachi wrote:
very well.
gg i surrender
you win mafia On November 17 2011 07:07 Kenpachi wrote:
"gg i surrender" On November 17 2011 08:51 Kenpachi wrote:
No i want to piss you all off On November 17 2011 08:57 Kenpachi wrote:
##Vote: Kenpachi
Im the Doctor that can only protect greens. oh and i also function as a watcher.
On November 17 2011 08:58 Kenpachi wrote:now that i proved that you guys are indeed retards, i have no regrets. implies i have a role On November 17 2011 09:06 Kenpachi wrote:
This is the first in a long time since i went defeatist. the first time, i was really bad. this time, you deserved the punishment. srs and it goes on.... Kenpachi is way better than you are. I don't think he's missed a single vigi shot at mafia and I'd sure as hell rather have him at end game than you.
When he flips scum who was relying on his reputation, you'll be eating those words.
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On November 17 2011 09:48 wherebugsgo wrote:
rofl @ people not understanding what LaL is, guess Ace was right.
Cyber you don't vote chaoser because of LaL. Chaoser has not yet been confirmed to lie. I really don't understand what your agenda is atm, and that's not good.
My best reads at this point of the game are chaoser/bum. I'm not going to bother voting Lanaia for at least a day or two, since I can't make head nor tail of what the anti-vote business was about.
Also Lanaia this is really bothering me, but for whatever reason I feel inclined to use female pronouns whenever I refer to you. It's completely irrelevant to the game but unless you have a preference I'm just going to keep calling you by your name lol.
I didn't vote Chaoser purely because of LaL. Read my posts, that was not the important part of my reasoning.
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On November 17 2011 09:48 Lanaia wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 09:42 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
Stop apologising. Give us your opinion on how we should proceed with the rest of the day. Staying in the 'Kenpachi actually got lynched' mindset when we could be scum hunting is detrimental. We should probably get the lurkers to post, really. I'm sure that would help us out a bit. I mean, it's fairly hard to read people who don't talk and compare behaviour when a fairly sizable chunk of the game is saying next to nothing (and has very few posts). Generating conversation is good; however, it tends to be better when the conversation isn't simply focusing on 2/3 people when there are a ton who aren't speaking.
So in your opinion, do we kill another lurker, or wait for them to react to Kenpachi's lynch. If so, do you advise we go after another person to be proclaimed 'good' as a lurker choice, or do we go after someone newer, and why. If not, who do we go after and why. These are the things we should be getting people to say right now.
I don't want to see another experienced player that is lurking dead, I feel the point was to send a message, and in this case Kenpachi was the lurker that spread the message. We also managed to enforce LaL in the process. I wouldn't be adverse to a lurker lynch, but it would be someone like Sinani, so we aren't losing too much potential on day 1.
I would prefer to go after someone that has been fairly active and looks scummy, for instance we should still be lynching Chaoser.
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On November 17 2011 09:51 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:@Cyber_CheeseShow nested quote +I'm going to keep a vote on Chaoser, it'll take something short of a miracle to convince me that random voting wasn't just him putting suspicion everywhere and muddying the waters to make the place more anti-town. You've voted for 5 different people so far, and are still voting for 3 of them. Palmar is voting for 5 people currently. Chaoser has voted for 5 different people so far, and is still voting for 4 of them. The only difference I see is that you and Palmar are mostly on the bandwagons while Chaoser's votes are more fringe votes. However, you were also the first and only vote to go on prplhz and the second vote, after only Palmar, to vote on Coag, so even you have cast some votes to the fringe. Why is his voting muddying the waters, and your's and Palmar's not?
In a game with mutli-lynch, it's harder to define the boundaries of what is muddying the waters and what is legitimate contribution.
He was voting without reasoning, on people he never mentioned. And we know it was on purpose because he did it twice.
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On November 17 2011 10:06 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 10:00 Cyber_Cheese wrote:On November 17 2011 09:51 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:@Cyber_CheeseI'm going to keep a vote on Chaoser, it'll take something short of a miracle to convince me that random voting wasn't just him putting suspicion everywhere and muddying the waters to make the place more anti-town. You've voted for 5 different people so far, and are still voting for 3 of them. Palmar is voting for 5 people currently. Chaoser has voted for 5 different people so far, and is still voting for 4 of them. The only difference I see is that you and Palmar are mostly on the bandwagons while Chaoser's votes are more fringe votes. However, you were also the first and only vote to go on prplhz and the second vote, after only Palmar, to vote on Coag, so even you have cast some votes to the fringe. Why is his voting muddying the waters, and your's and Palmar's not? In a game with mutli-lynch, it's harder to define the boundaries of what is muddying the waters and what is legitimate contribution. He was voting without reasoning, on people he never mentioned. And we know it was on purpose because he did it twice. So what? That was almost 2 IRL days ago. Why focus on just his first posts when he has posted so much after that?
I'm failing to see how his actions on Day 1 are irrelevant on Day 1.
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On November 17 2011 07:49 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 13:43 Hiroruby wrote:On November 15 2011 12:55 LSB wrote:
come to think about it, that does seem like a nice icebreaker. So everyone! How about lets talk about how you think mafia should be played, the importance of blues, what should we do with lurkers, and what majority lynch means. Well, this is my first game so I'll give my elementary assessment of the afformentioned topics. <Fluff+Contradictions> Specifically: Show nested quote +Playing Mafia: I think mafia lurking and lying are weak strategies. Following those guidelines you set will guarantee the mafia get a few free town lynches if they play smart and be active at the beginning as I'm pretty sure we will have some inactive townies. Show nested quote +Lurkers: should be killed, and that should be made clear right away. If you know you will die if you lurk, then you will not lurk unless you are mafia, and that should just get you killed. Mafia will be pushing for lurkers to be lynched in the first few days. Lurkers should be killed! Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 05:21 Hiroruby wrote:On November 16 2011 05:13 Drazerk wrote:##Vote: Sabin010
Bad vibes also this - On November 16 2011 00:22 Sabin010 wrote:
I have seen to many games where we lose our cop or doc first day and end up wasting our time as the mob picks us off. On November 16 2011 01:06 Sabin010 wrote:
This is my first game and im not sure of all the terms. I thought scum, mob, and mafia are the same. That appears to be a very blatant lie. Looking at it, I can really see nothing that can redeem this. LaL. ##Vote: Sabin010 Shitty reasoned vote for Sabin010? Doesn't post for 24 hours to explain or push for it. Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 07:34 Hiroruby wrote:
I don't have time to post much right now, but I've read the thread, and really don't like what went down between Lana, and Ken.
##Vote: Lanaia
##Vote: Kenpachi
I need to do a more in depth read of Chao before I vote him, because he is getting very close to over 50%. Once again, doesn't explain his vote, saying it's due to "don't like what went down"##vote: Hiroruby
At this point, he's already done that twice.
On November 17 2011 09:22 chaoser wrote:
##vote bumatlarge
Knowing full well it's scummy, he does it again. But why?
On November 17 2011 08:00 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 07:56 Palmar wrote:
I always play like that... my biggest weakness as a town player is telling the difference between terrible townies and scum. Probably should brush up on this weakness given how shitty towns are... Here, I'll help http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=147475Show nested quote +The worst way to play day 1 is with apathy and disinterest and lynch the most outspoken/controversial player, who is never going to be mafia. Lynching inactives is generally fruitless, but slightly less so; the mafia will always be able to deflect it to some bored townie but they might be forced to step up and do something that reveals their true colors. Note that forcing a mafia to expose information they would not have done so in ordinary circumstances is exactly what I mean for point 3.
He's been intentionally playing to be outspoken/controversial so he could bring that up on purpose.
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EPT
