|
On November 15 2011 13:43 Hiroruby wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 12:55 LSB wrote:
come to think about it, that does seem like a nice icebreaker. So everyone! How about lets talk about how you think mafia should be played, the importance of blues, what should we do with lurkers, and what majority lynch means. Well, this is my first game so I'll give my elementary assessment of the afformentioned topics. Playing Mafia: I think mafia lurking and lying are weak strategies. Following those guidelines you set will guarantee the mafia get a few free town lynches if they play smart and be active at the beginning as I'm pretty sure we will have some inactive townies. As I said, straight up lying is a bad move, because it could come back to haunt you. Better to just have convoluted, strangely worded, ambiguous answers to peoples questions. It's all true, but people will waste time trying to figure out what you meant. That is when you go "afk" for a few hours while people decipher it, then when they have sufficiently wasted their time, change something you said. Nothing big, just say it was a slight mistake or that you changed your mind about a portion of what you said. Following wheels like this whenever they present themselves is a good move, because if ever people follow the wheel to a towny, you can either hint to try and get a band wagon on him, or just let the town try and hang eachother. I think sacrificing a mafia member is a great move as well. Have one mafia member call out another, get him killed because people will follow the logic train of: One is mafia, and one is town. No matter who gets lynched, it is very possible the town is left with a "sleeper cell" if you will. A trusted member who will influence us for the rest of the game, possibly without suspicion until several mislynches are made. In my opinion, Mafia's biggest goal should be to become a trusted towny, by whatever means necessary. I'm not too indepth with the subtle nuances of Mafia and their roles, so I'm eager to learn how those effect the game from other peoples posts. Blue roles: are of course game changers, but I've read a lot of posts about town and their over reliance on blues to win the game. I believe Ace has been very vocal about this, perhaps I'm wrong on that, but I don't think we should hinge our strategy on verifying a few blue names and hoping they win before we all get killed. Again as with Mafia roles, I don't know too too much about the subtleties on how some of the roles like vet get played out in game. I'm again, eager to see what my fellow boatsmen have to say. Lurkers: should be killed, and that should be made clear right away. If you know you will die if you lurk, then you will not lurk unless you are mafia, and that should just get you killed. Lurking helps no one, gives nothing to either validate or disprove a person, just leaves a cloud of ambiguity and distrust. Lurkers simply must die as they are either town that are usless, thus hurting us, or are mafia. Majority Lynch: I'm not sure why you asked what Majority Lynch means when the game rules are Majority multi lynch or something of that sort. But regardless, from what I read as soon as one member exceeds or equals 50% of the vote in a single day, he will die at the end of said day. This means you should be very careful about ever just "leaving" a vote on someone. Especially toward the later game. It will allow mafia to all jump on and possibly kill someone , or multiple townies, if too many floating votes are around. They can easily pass it off as voting for him by following the same logic you did. Can you write a small report like this as well, LSB? I would like to see your take in an easy to read format, so that I can see an established players views on the topics.
Over half of this post is thoughts on how to play as mafia, when the source question was about the game as a whole.
On November 15 2011 13:45 Hiroruby wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 13:29 Kenpachi wrote:
real long day ok.
hi i am Kenpachi and i am a Townie
welcome to TL mafia to those who are just starting and i hope you have a good time here.
Thanks, I'll do my best! I too am a townie, kind of glad since I don't have to figure out how to use special abilities and such.
The throwaway townie reveals weren't just Kenpachi.
FoS Hiroruby
On November 15 2011 12:55 LSB wrote:
come to think about it, that does seem like a nice icebreaker. So everyone! How about lets talk about how you think mafia should be played, the importance of blues, what should we do with lurkers, and what majority lynch means.
Majority lynch + Multi lynch essentially allows us to kill everyone we have good reason to believe is scummy each day. We should restrict it to 1-2 lurkers per day and 1-2 scummy looking players (max 3).
Treat it like there's still a single lynch system in place when making arguements and voting, but at the same time don't let it go to waste. In other words, don't let the system fool you into thinking individual votes are not as important as usual.
The multilynch system seems to combat tunneling, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't tunnel. Be open to voting on other lynches, but remember how hard it can be to get scum voted on the stand without tunneling before saying we shouldn't.
Blues, we should more or less forget about. If they exsist, great, but realistically we can win without them.
The mafia should be played thing seems to be a very broad topic.
People should post opinions on 1) Tunneling people, 2) Use of the multilynch system and 3) The use of the multilynch system in regards to lurkers.
|
As far as I know Kenpachi always claims vanilla town, every game, day one, regardless of aliengment. So I wouldn't put much stock in it.
I think i saw this earlier but i would like to bring it up again here, With the multi-lynch mechanic what do people think about lynching an additional lurker for the first few days? usally the problem with the day1 lurker lynch is town doesnt scum-hunt when they are determined just to kill a lurker. however with this settup we can "tack on" another target to the lynch.
|
On November 15 2011 16:28 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
People should post opinions on 1) Tunneling people, 2) Use of the multilynch system and 3) The use of the multilynch system in regards to lurkers.
1) I'm assuming this means focusing solely on getting 1 person lynched? If it does, we obviously want to avoid that and keep an open mind.
2) I think the multi-lynch system looks really interesting, and could be a great help if we use it properly. If we have a couple of people who are posting suspiciously then we don't have to decide which one is scummier, because we're not limited to one lynch, we can judge them seperately and lynch them both (if it comes to that).
3) We shouldn't go overboard with the use of this on lurkers, maybe lynch 1 lurker a day with it, in addition to the people we think are scum.
|
On November 15 2011 16:50 xsksc wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 16:28 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
People should post opinions on 1) Tunneling people, 2) Use of the multilynch system and 3) The use of the multilynch system in regards to lurkers. 1) I'm assuming this means focusing solely on getting 1 person lynched? If it does, we obviously want to avoid that and keep an open mind. 2) I think the multi-lynch system looks really interesting, and could be a great help if we use it properly. If we have a couple of people who are posting suspiciously then we don't have to decide which one is scummier, because we're not limited to one lynch, we can judge them seperately and lynch them both (if it comes to that). 3) We shouldn't go overboard with the use of this on lurkers, maybe lynch 1 lurker a day with it, in addition to the people we think are scum.
Tunneling refers more to putting intense pressure on a single player, with the hope that they slip up in some way if they are mafia. When done well it can be quite good. but too often it only serves to sidetrack the town, and makes people think you are scum because of that.
Cyber with regards to your 2nd point, as i think i answered both 1 and 3, this whole multi lynch concept is a risk, I think its up to the town to decide whether or not its something we should all go for on a day by day basis. but initially each day i feel like we should approach the game like its only majority lynch rules. Similar to WAW2 with the nukes (until it devolved into madness).
|
On November 15 2011 16:50 xsksc wrote:
3) We shouldn't go overboard with the use of this on lurkers, maybe lynch 1 lurker a day with it, in addition to the people we think are scum.
What are your views about this? Should we do this? If so why?
|
On November 15 2011 16:59 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 16:50 xsksc wrote:
3) We shouldn't go overboard with the use of this on lurkers, maybe lynch 1 lurker a day with it, in addition to the people we think are scum. What are your views about this? Should we do this? If so why?
Is this directed at me?
|
Not necessarily, I want xsksc to answer his question. But it's been brought up multiple times, and maybe we should hold a 'poll' on it.
+ Show Spoiler +The issue with discussing plans is that unless it is clearly town favored or mafia favored it is really easy for mafia to lurk and discuss a plan (something they probably don't care about) instead of making fake analysis
|
On November 15 2011 17:16 LSB wrote:Not necessarily, I want xsksc to answer his question. But it's been brought up multiple times, and maybe we should hold a 'poll' on it. + Show Spoiler +The issue with discussing plans is that unless it is clearly town favored or mafia favored it is really easy for mafia to lurk and discuss a plan (something they probably don't care about) instead of making fake analysis
fortunatly, with a 72 hour first day, we should be able to get enough info to get a reasonable lynch (or more reasonable than most day1 lynches), or identify the hardcore lurkers
|
On November 15 2011 16:59 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 16:50 xsksc wrote:
3) We shouldn't go overboard with the use of this on lurkers, maybe lynch 1 lurker a day with it, in addition to the people we think are scum. What are your views about this? Should we do this? If so why?
Well, obviously we want to be careful how we use it. I'm happy lynching a lurker day 1 as long as we focus on finding scum first.
On November 15 2011 16:45 GreYMisT wrote:
usally the problem with the day1 lurker lynch is town doesnt scum-hunt when they are determined just to kill a lurker. however with this settup we can "tack on" another target to the lynch.
As for why, inactive players really don't help town at all. The only people who benefit from inactivity is scum.
If we prioritize our first votes on someone scummy, and then lynch a lurker in addition to that, it's essentially free information is it not?
|
Why are so many people putting seemingly random parts of their posts in spoilers? It makes it hard to read. If you are saying scummy things I don't want to have to make all these extra clicks to catch you. 
|
Policy lynching is stupid stupid stupid and if we policy lynch ANYTHING it will ONLY help mafia. The day is 72 hours long and you have to post one every 24 hours so lurking should be somewhat dealt with that way. If we lynch lurky people they HAVE to be scummy too, you don't just lynch blindly into inactivity.
Tunneling can be pretty powerful, it is a tool to get a read it should just be used right. Town shouldn't let itself get sidetracked if player A decides that they want to tunnel player B, look at what is happening. Don't just say "lole~(tm) u r tunnl means u r scum". If you want to lynch either a lurker or a liar you ALWAYS need to post analysis of why they are scummy too.
I like what Cyber_Cheese said, Hiroruby has a lot of focus on how to play as mafia. Also, he supports a strict lynch all lurkers policy which, as I have already said, is extremely pro-mafia for painfully obvious reasons.
The multi-lynch system should be used for lynching multiple scum.
##Vote Hiroruby
|
On November 15 2011 17:36 prplhz wrote:
Policy lynching is stupid stupid stupid and if we policy lynch ANYTHING it will ONLY help mafia. The day is 72 hours long and you have to post one every 24 hours so lurking should be somewhat dealt with that way. If we lynch lurky people they HAVE to be scummy too, you don't just lynch blindly into inactivity.
Tunneling can be pretty powerful, it is a tool to get a read it should just be used right. Town shouldn't let itself get sidetracked if player A decides that they want to tunnel player B, look at what is happening. Don't just say "lole~(tm) u r tunnl means u r scum". If you want to lynch either a lurker or a liar you ALWAYS need to post analysis of why they are scummy too.
I like what Cyber_Cheese said, Hiroruby has a lot of focus on how to play as mafia. Also, he supports a strict lynch all lurkers policy which, as I have already said, is extremely pro-mafia for painfully obvious reasons.
The multi-lynch system should be used for lynching multiple scum.
##Vote Hiroruby
Why do you disagree with Lynch all Liars?
|
On November 15 2011 17:43 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 17:36 prplhz wrote:
Policy lynching is stupid stupid stupid and if we policy lynch ANYTHING it will ONLY help mafia. The day is 72 hours long and you have to post one every 24 hours so lurking should be somewhat dealt with that way. If we lynch lurky people they HAVE to be scummy too, you don't just lynch blindly into inactivity.
Tunneling can be pretty powerful, it is a tool to get a read it should just be used right. Town shouldn't let itself get sidetracked if player A decides that they want to tunnel player B, look at what is happening. Don't just say "lole~(tm) u r tunnl means u r scum". If you want to lynch either a lurker or a liar you ALWAYS need to post analysis of why they are scummy too.
I like what Cyber_Cheese said, Hiroruby has a lot of focus on how to play as mafia. Also, he supports a strict lynch all lurkers policy which, as I have already said, is extremely pro-mafia for painfully obvious reasons.
The multi-lynch system should be used for lynching multiple scum.
##Vote Hiroruby Why do you disagree with Lynch all Liars?
I think town shouldn't lie and we should discourage that. Look no further than Team Melee Mini Mafia where the esteemed GMarshal provided a prime example of why a strict lynch-all-liars policy isn't always the greatest as it would have lost town that game.
If you are town: do not lie under any circumstances. If you are town and somebody else lies: don't just lynch them because of that alone, even though we have a seemingly unlimited number of lynches at our disposal.
|
On November 15 2011 17:46 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 17:43 LSB wrote:On November 15 2011 17:36 prplhz wrote:
Policy lynching is stupid stupid stupid and if we policy lynch ANYTHING it will ONLY help mafia. The day is 72 hours long and you have to post one every 24 hours so lurking should be somewhat dealt with that way. If we lynch lurky people they HAVE to be scummy too, you don't just lynch blindly into inactivity.
Tunneling can be pretty powerful, it is a tool to get a read it should just be used right. Town shouldn't let itself get sidetracked if player A decides that they want to tunnel player B, look at what is happening. Don't just say "lole~(tm) u r tunnl means u r scum". If you want to lynch either a lurker or a liar you ALWAYS need to post analysis of why they are scummy too.
I like what Cyber_Cheese said, Hiroruby has a lot of focus on how to play as mafia. Also, he supports a strict lynch all lurkers policy which, as I have already said, is extremely pro-mafia for painfully obvious reasons.
The multi-lynch system should be used for lynching multiple scum.
##Vote Hiroruby Why do you disagree with Lynch all Liars? I think town shouldn't lie and we should discourage that. Look no further than Team Melee Mini Mafia where the esteemed GMarshal provided a prime example of why a strict lynch-all-liars policy isn't always the greatest as it would have lost town that game. If you are town: do not lie under any circumstances. If you are town and somebody else lies: don't just lynch them because of that alone, even though we have a seemingly unlimited number of lynches at our disposal.
Town got destroyed in Team Melee Mini Mafia. Show me an example where lying helped the town. Telling the truth is pro-town
LAL works as firstly it encourages the town to tell the truth, which means the town is better. Also, since pro-town people realize how important it is to tell the truth, the only liers would be mafia. Lastly it punishes mafia for making fake claims, helping sort out information. It accomplishes what you said and more.
On November 15 2011 17:23 Lemonwalrus wrote:Why are so many people putting seemingly random parts of their posts in spoilers? It makes it hard to read. If you are saying scummy things I don't want to have to make all these extra clicks to catch you.
I know (from personal preference) if you are (I am) skimming, spoilers are always fun to click and are an easy way to draw attention. ^^
|
I'll read this thread at some point.
|
On November 15 2011 17:46 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 17:43 LSB wrote:On November 15 2011 17:36 prplhz wrote:
Policy lynching is stupid stupid stupid and if we policy lynch ANYTHING it will ONLY help mafia. The day is 72 hours long and you have to post one every 24 hours so lurking should be somewhat dealt with that way. If we lynch lurky people they HAVE to be scummy too, you don't just lynch blindly into inactivity.
Tunneling can be pretty powerful, it is a tool to get a read it should just be used right. Town shouldn't let itself get sidetracked if player A decides that they want to tunnel player B, look at what is happening. Don't just say "lole~(tm) u r tunnl means u r scum". If you want to lynch either a lurker or a liar you ALWAYS need to post analysis of why they are scummy too.
I like what Cyber_Cheese said, Hiroruby has a lot of focus on how to play as mafia. Also, he supports a strict lynch all lurkers policy which, as I have already said, is extremely pro-mafia for painfully obvious reasons.
The multi-lynch system should be used for lynching multiple scum.
##Vote Hiroruby Why do you disagree with Lynch all Liars? I think town shouldn't lie and we should discourage that. Look no further than Team Melee Mini Mafia where the esteemed GMarshal provided a prime example of why a strict lynch-all-liars policy isn't always the greatest as it would have lost town that game. If you are town: do not lie under any circumstances. If you are town and somebody else lies: don't just lynch them because of that alone, even though we have a seemingly unlimited number of lynches at our disposal.
You obviously never played poker.If you did, you would know that making a good call can lose you the game, and making mistake can sometimes make you win. This is what happened in TMMM, town should have lost, made a mistake and accidently won. Does that mean that not lunching GMarshal was the good move: NO. If you lie, you better have an irrefutable argument of why mafia would mot have lied in your position or i will vote for you.
You want us to lunch scummy lurkers only. But how are we supposed to do that? The point of lurking is that you dont post enough to look scummy. Unless not posting alone makes you scummy ,in which case all lurkers are scummy...I dont see the "painfully obvious reason" why lynching lurkers is pro mafia. Could you please detail them to me ?
I suggest we lynch 1+ very scummy players a day as well a 1 additional lurker lynch. This way you would have NO reason at all to be lurking, as it wont prevent you from beeing lynched. Instead show up and prove that you are town by finding those mafia player.
|
I'll lunch GMarshal all day long
|
On November 15 2011 17:46 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 17:43 LSB wrote:On November 15 2011 17:36 prplhz wrote:
Policy lynching is stupid stupid stupid and if we policy lynch ANYTHING it will ONLY help mafia. The day is 72 hours long and you have to post one every 24 hours so lurking should be somewhat dealt with that way. If we lynch lurky people they HAVE to be scummy too, you don't just lynch blindly into inactivity.
Tunneling can be pretty powerful, it is a tool to get a read it should just be used right. Town shouldn't let itself get sidetracked if player A decides that they want to tunnel player B, look at what is happening. Don't just say "lole~(tm) u r tunnl means u r scum". If you want to lynch either a lurker or a liar you ALWAYS need to post analysis of why they are scummy too.
I like what Cyber_Cheese said, Hiroruby has a lot of focus on how to play as mafia. Also, he supports a strict lynch all lurkers policy which, as I have already said, is extremely pro-mafia for painfully obvious reasons.
The multi-lynch system should be used for lynching multiple scum.
##Vote Hiroruby Why do you disagree with Lynch all Liars? I think town shouldn't lie and we should discourage that. Look no further than Team Melee Mini Mafia where the esteemed GMarshal provided a prime example of why a strict lynch-all-liars policy isn't always the greatest as it would have lost town that game. If you are town: do not lie under any circumstances. If you are town and somebody else lies: don't just lynch them because of that alone, even though we have a seemingly unlimited number of lynches at our disposal.
If GM hadn't lied, the medic would have survived the night and town would have won anyway, if anything he came dangerously close to sabotaging towns chances. Town has no reasons to lie, that is scum's objectives, and you seem to be pushing leniency for them. Not only that, but you have already lied about the part I bolded (expand quote).
You also jumped straight on the first potential bandwagon as soon as you could.
##Vote: Prplhz
On November 15 2011 17:54 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 17:46 prplhz wrote:On November 15 2011 17:43 LSB wrote:On November 15 2011 17:36 prplhz wrote:
Policy lynching is stupid stupid stupid and if we policy lynch ANYTHING it will ONLY help mafia. The day is 72 hours long and you have to post one every 24 hours so lurking should be somewhat dealt with that way. If we lynch lurky people they HAVE to be scummy too, you don't just lynch blindly into inactivity.
Tunneling can be pretty powerful, it is a tool to get a read it should just be used right. Town shouldn't let itself get sidetracked if player A decides that they want to tunnel player B, look at what is happening. Don't just say "lole~(tm) u r tunnl means u r scum". If you want to lynch either a lurker or a liar you ALWAYS need to post analysis of why they are scummy too.
I like what Cyber_Cheese said, Hiroruby has a lot of focus on how to play as mafia. Also, he supports a strict lynch all lurkers policy which, as I have already said, is extremely pro-mafia for painfully obvious reasons.
The multi-lynch system should be used for lynching multiple scum.
##Vote Hiroruby Why do you disagree with Lynch all Liars? I think town shouldn't lie and we should discourage that. Look no further than Team Melee Mini Mafia where the esteemed GMarshal provided a prime example of why a strict lynch-all-liars policy isn't always the greatest as it would have lost town that game. If you are town: do not lie under any circumstances. If you are town and somebody else lies: don't just lynch them because of that alone, even though we have a seemingly unlimited number of lynches at our disposal. Town got destroyed in Team Melee Mini Mafia. Show me an example where lying helped the town. Telling the truth is pro-town
If I've kept track correctly, town won in TMMM, but the lie made them nearly lose.
|
If any of you bothered to read my posts I never said that people should lie their asses off, on the contrary. I said that lynch-all-liars can be bad and it would have been in TMMM because GMarshal was a lying town. He shouldn't have lied, but two wrongs doesn't make a right and lying isn't damning evidence by itself. sandroba made the right call in not lynching GMarshal 'cause at the end of the day, this is a game about lynching scum, not about lynching liars. Don't lie and don't hide behind policies instead of contributing with your opinion.
Also, I jumped on the 0-person bandwagon? Rofl. I liked your post Cyber_Cheese even though I thought it was weird that you didn't vote in it, but that new post of yours was all shit. Sorry.
Hiroruby says he supports a strict lynch-all-lurkers policy right here:
On November 15 2011 13:43 Hiroruby wrote:
Lurkers: should be killed, and that should be made clear right away. If you know you will die if you lurk, then you will not lurk unless you are mafia, and that should just get you killed. Lurking helps no one, gives nothing to either validate or disprove a person, just leaves a cloud of ambiguity and distrust. Lurkers simply must die as they are either town that are usless, thus hurting us, or are mafia.
He says that even if lurkers are town, they should get lynched. I mean come on.
|
/confirm
On November 15 2011 16:12 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 15:49 DCLXVI wrote:damn I forgot people post while I'm in the middle of writing posts... ugh On November 15 2011 14:55 LSB wrote:On November 15 2011 14:19 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:On November 15 2011 12:55 LSB wrote:
come to think about it, that does seem like a nice icebreaker. So everyone! How about lets talk about how you think mafia should be played, the importance of blues, what should we do with lurkers, and what majority lynch means. LAL?For your point on LAL, unless I have misread the OP, we only know what abilities are possible, not which are actually in the game, how they may have been combined into roles, nor how many of the role there may be. So, unless we have a cop of some variety, I don't know how you intend to find liars in this game. So were you just stating that as a general "in mafia games" rule, or did you have something in mind for this game in particular? I'd be interested in hearing how you intend to determine the liars given the setup. Lying will come up and you will be able to recognize it. The most prominent example is fake claims. So LAL means no fake claims. + Show Spoiler +Or it means don't get caught lying. Kenpachi's green claim would be an example of a potentially acceptable lie (if he is blue) as this early in the game any claims are meaningless So what is your position on Kenpachi claiming townie? At first you say LAL, but then lying can be acceptable in certain situations, such as kenpachi is blue. Then you say that his claim is meaningless as it is too early in the game. Does that make his post spam/intentionally distracting? Surely he is a good enough player to realize the importance of his claim. Can you explain your opinions on the subject rather than just post vague generalizations. Is kenpachi's claim worth analyzing/what does it mean? Wtf does this mean? Are you saying you are taking Kenpachi seriously? Stop talking hypotheticals, iirc you've played with Kenpachi before. Even if you have not you can go through his posts and figure out how he plays. In addition you've played before so you know how TL mafia is in the first few hours. I honestly don't see how
I´m going to step in here. DCLXVI allready caught this and posted before me, but I don´t think my reason for noticing has been discussed. Okay, to me it looks like this; LSB wants us to Lynch All Liars. Kenpachi claimed Townie, but LSB doesn´t want us to take the Kenpachi claim seriously. My problem here is that either Kenpachi lied, or he just told Scum not to nightkill him, because it would be no use. If we are going to go by the LAL policy, then either Kenpachi lied or acted Pro-Scum, so why should we back off? Kenpachi does this every game, then we can ignore his claim, but what I don´t agree with is LSB promoting LAL wanting to ignore the claim, even if it is meta. It took him about 5 posts to go back on his own policy of Lynch All Liars. If Kenpachi lied (or play Pro-Scum), why does LSB then defend him after his first policy post?
FoS LSB
As for lynching 1-2 lurkers and 1-2 scum, sounds reasonable, I think we should stay at about that number for now. We need to be carefull about lynching, not just because of the consequences in the setup, but if we find 5 players who seem connected, then it´s better to lynch 1-2 and see if they are scum, than lynching all 5 at once and kill 5 innocent townies at once.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
