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On November 03 2011 08:08 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:
Ciryandor, I would also like to hear what your current thoughts are when you get the chance. You've posted today, but none of your usual analysis yet.
Just woke up and heading into work in a bit. I've got a big event that I'm staffing for so expect very very spotty presence from me until Saturday evening in Korea time. However, a quick read-through just makes me wonder why hyshes suddenly is screaming that drem and I are scum, simply because I didn't vote drem but I bothered to put together a big post-by-post of his activity in this game. I might have the time to dig through hyshes' posts one by one like I did with drem and Skrammen, but right now, drem's pinging very bad on my scum radar right now.
Just as an example, drem's multiple mistakes in this game:
On November 03 2011 03:25 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:Show nested quote +If Rammen was town, then we would have ended up losing two townies on day 1, leaving us with a bare majority (we would have 6 out of 10 people) First hyshes posts some shitty logic, then Drem doesn't realize that according to the OP there are: 3 of 3 MAFIA remaining We would have been left with 7 out of 10 people. What the fuck people?
First he says we're going to be near LYLO territory if he had lynched someone.
Then:
On November 03 2011 03:35 Drem903 wrote:
you know, if you guys want to lynch me for having shitty reading comprehension and screwing up the lynch day 1 for not realizing there were only 3 mafia.... then i would not blame you.
We still have a much larger majority, so it's still not the worst situation. Also, even if we did succeed, all it would take was 2 other indecisive townies to vote differently (or vote with mafia unwittingly), to have nothing done today. Either way i could have screwed up much worse, and i do apologize for making the noobiest mistake possible.
Dude, even if all the scum managed to convince two townies to vote for other people and they voted for the same person, if the whole town sees fit to try and lynch someone (6 townies), we still get a lynch, not another no-lynch day.
I'm going to call him out on spreading FUD to people who don't count the lynches required.
## Vote Drem903
On that note, I still believe Skrammen's hardcore lurking worth looking at, and I can switch if people still believe Skrammen is more scummy based on my analysis and subsequent inactivity after I FOSed him then he barely escaped the lynch. Still, it does not remove the fact that what Drem did in spreading the second point I just highlighted reeks of scum play.
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What in the... I cannot believe you are doing this to yourself hyshes, even in my drunken state (YEAH!); why you've made such an inane self-wagon on yourself. I'll read through each post since my last one when I'm more coherent and sober.
*I hate work, and it was a long weekend in the Philippines so I had a chance to be much more active on Day 1*
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Hey guys, good morning from here. I've got a few minutes with my thoughts here, but I'm really pressed for time today; I'm going to be busy for the next 12 hours but after sleeping it off I can catch up with whatever's happening on Day 3 if I'm still going to be alive.
As it stands, I'll start off with some thoughts on the guys who were already pushed for over the last two days:
Skrammen has managed to escape scrutiny after nearly getting lynched, but being away from the spotlight has not helped his posting much:
+ Show Spoiler [Skrammen accusing Zanfada of inactivity] +On November 02 2011 02:08 Skrammen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 01:36 Zanfada wrote:On November 01 2011 09:40 Zanfada wrote:On November 01 2011 09:04 Skrammen wrote:
If you decide to lynch me anyway, and I do flip green, there's a good chance all of the scum will be among those who are most adamant about lynching me. If I flip red, then risk and bunneh got some 'splaining to do. This last statement is really odd, If you are town then there is no reason to bring it up. This seems like a scum slip to me but why say you might be red if you are scum... can you comment on this skram, the choice of words is still bothering me. Just stating the obvious. Why say I might red if I am scum? Well, if I was, would I tell you? Are you desperatly trying to find a reason to get me lynched, again? What about you. So far, the only thing you have done is come in, instigate somthing on someone else, defend yourself when you got under pressure only to disappear again. And here you are again.
He's done the same thing as well, try to start suspicion on Zanfada on Night 1, hoping someone picks it up Day 2 and gets him as a vote-leader; then:
+ Show Spoiler [Comment on hyshes and Vote choice] +On November 03 2011 10:37 Skrammen wrote:@Toadsstern The reason for this is that at that point, bunneh and risk were defending me, and thus me flipping would be bad news for them. Perhaps pretty redundant but still true. So lets think about it. Risk turned out to be green. If I were a red, how would I benefit from his death? He blocked my lynch, and he seemed pretty adamant about my affiliations. Now that he's gone it might reinforce any suspicions you have of me or toad, which is exactly what the scum wants, they want either of us lynched on day 2. Your vote for Drem earlier was a vote for the sake of voting, nothing solid to go on. Your unvote was also on very poor grounds. What I do think of this situation is that me and toad are just two townies pointing fingers at each other. I've not removed you from my list of people to look at, but at this point in time, I do not think you are a scum. You're pointing fingers at basically everyone in this game, which is either poor mafia play or good townie play. At this point its obvious that either one of us is a scum, or none of us. Lets look at the votes from the previous day: + Show Spoiler +1. risk.nuke Toadesstern
2. HarbingerOfDoom Skrammen
3. Toadesstern Skrammen
4. Zanfada Skrammen
5. xsksc Skrammen
6. Ciryandor Skrammen
7. hacklebeast toadesstern
8. Skrammen Chocolate
9. hyshes Zanfada
10. Drem903 Zanfada
11. IMABUNNEH Toadesstern
12. Chocolate Skrammen I do not think there would be more than 1 mafia voting for me. Risk voted Toadsstern and we know he turned out to be town. Hacklebeast also voted for him, and so did bunneh. But what if we consider hyshes and drem's vote on Zanfada to be a safe-vote, so to speak? Or do you think this is very poor mafia play? At this point im not sure, but im pointing my finger on drem. + Show Spoiler +
the people i've accused genuinely accused: Zanfada (not great reasoning, but it was only my first day, and he just seemed suspicious), SKrammen, YOU, hackle, and Toad.
Now, I believe there is somthing there worth investigating. + Show Spoiler +Of those 5 Toad and SK are the one's i've been constant about, and toad is the only one to make any real accusations against me. Zanfada i hold no real suspicion of anymore. Why not vote me? Seems like an easy lynch. It would probably give you some answers, too. But you knew that I would flip green, and when that happened you do not want to be on the list as a scum. + Show Spoiler +1) His posts are long when a simple reply could answer the question (disregarding his analysis post on risk). As scum he's using longer posts to try and cover all possible points that could indicate him to be Mafia. Yes, or perhaps his excuse is a valid one. I made a comment about time-zones and it nearly got me lynched. + Show Spoiler +2) The only person who would benefit from Risk's death is Toad. Now, my earlier statement on that was it could be a Mafia ploy to distract us, but that would also be immediately obvious so it could be a double trick (kill risk to get suspicion on toad, but we realize that and stop focusing on toad, and then toad is mafia so it was just a convoluted trap that could work). At this point it just gets into an infinite chain of back and forth. Now this is interesting. You're right - it could be a double trick. Or a triple trick, or whatever. I think getting rid of risk is too obvious, and I dont think it would benefit him. Sometimes there is not a hidden meaning, and sometimes the most obvious answer is the right one. But we can not be 100% certain untill we get some lynching done. At this time, I believe Drem to be a valid lynch. Another day without a lynch is getting us nowhere. ## Vote Drem903
Why does he meekly follow my initial vote explanation and yet highlight hyshes' name on his list of people he wants to look at? Also, a few posts after this, HoD probably picked up on his comment and posted a good accusation versus hyshes, leading to his emo-bandwagon into suicide.
However to his credit:
+ Show Spoiler [Explains the situation on Hyshes] +On November 04 2011 01:06 Skrammen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2011 11:28 Skrammen wrote:On November 03 2011 11:09 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:
@Skrammen
Since you reappeared, I would like to reassert my earlier request; If you value your life, please make a post of the following:
1) At least 2, preferably 3 people you think are scum
2) Explanations and some analysis of why you think they are scum
3) At least 2, preferably more, people you think are town, excluding yourself
4) Explanations of why you think they are town
5) What you think the goal of the risk.nuke shooting was I'm going to reply to this quickly for now, and I will come back with a more thorough respons once I get my sleep. I've been busy all day and its getting late over here. 1) At this point I think atleast Drem is a scum. Im suspicious of Hyshes and chocolate, but Toad is still on my radar. 3) I think Bunneh is a townie. Ciry seems pro-town and I havnt made my mind up about the rest of them, but im about 50-50 on Zanfada and yourself. 5) I believe the biggest reason for getting rid of risk is to get either me or toad lynched today. If I get lynched and flip green, toad is very very suspicious. If toad gets lynched and flips green then that would put pressure on me and those who pushed toad the most. 2) I dont have much to add to my previous post where I laid out some of my thoughts and voted for Drem. But I thought that both hyshes and Drem were mafias, but Hyshes voted Drem earlier. Now, this could be a ploy or one of them is green. If we do lynch Hyshes and he flips green, I will look even closer at Drem. As for Hyshes, I honestly dont have much to add to your thoughts regarding the matter. One thing is that he did not vote for the easy lynch, because being on the list when I flipped green would spell bad news for him. I think this is a pretty good scumtell. If he flips red we should pressure everyone else who did not vote for me hard, as there is likely to be scum among them. And I do not like one bit his defeatist attitude. If you are green and you do this, you are only hurting the town. 4) So far it seems to me that both Bunneh and Ciry are townies because they are both very pro-town. Stirring up discussions and the like. To be very honest - I have not looked as much from this angle, I've been pretty busy both defending myself and trying to discern who are scums. So, unless hyshes makes a solid defence for himself I guess im with the bandwagon. ## Unvote Drem903
## Vote Hyshes
He does expound why hyshes after HoD's accusation and blow-up is a good lynch target in the first place. One could easily say that the "after the fact" helps him in that respect though.
I'll expect him to look at drem as well, after that statement he said, so if he doesn't, I think I can call him out on that. Otherwise he hasn't really explored everyone else when it comes to their reliability.
Toadesstern, Drem903 and Zanfada posting nitpicks are to follow; but if I get to Day 3 (Saturday Noon to Monday Noon), I'll post on everyone's activity by that point, including myself.
TL;DR? READ IT, we're going to lose to inactivity and not poking everyone.
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I will try to sneak in a PBP on Toad during the noon break if I can help it. I'm going to be running around a convention center and talking to people, so I can't help being away from the net.
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If anyone is wondering what event it is: Link here!
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Once again sneaking some net use.
Awesome work (read terrible for them) by scum by not doing a hit, or great work by a medic predicting the day's hit. Or we could be seeing a mind-fuck from them, which considering how we haven't been able to get a proper vote going (Skrammen no-lynch and hyshes self-wagon), can only mean a good thing for town. I still can't do my nitpicking on everyone right now; but it will arrive on this Day.
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On November 06 2011 00:39 Toadesstern wrote:
also just to add this: I am aware of that post ciry made earlier and it looks to be town no question it's just that other than those big analyses he's completly skipping the talk. I know he said he's buisy but I just wanted to mention it.
Just got home, I'm fucking burnt out, and I'm ready to get back in this game with a PBP worth a damn when I wake up. I'll let you guys judge for yourselves what you think once it's done; it's probably going to be half a page worth of per-person talk.
I just wanted to make clear from you Toad, what are you expecting from me regarding this? Do you want me to weigh in on you looking like scum to most people? Or are you asking me why Skrammen ought to be the one lynched instead?
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As for looking like skipping the talk, the point is, right now, we're nearly back to where we were before we got railroaded by hyshes, with some obvious targets for town, and what I'm going to do (the PBP), will provide town with a lot of talking points while I also provide my own input, which is where I don't skip talking. Giving grounds for discussion is just as important as actually discussing the issues, as it allows people to defend or attack talking points more vigorously and convince them of one point or another.
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PBP Series Part 1: Toaddestern
Notes on reading this:
I will be linking to posts if I feel that the post is relevant, non-relevant comments to the game will be ignored or at least noted for their presence. Posts with important highlighted points will have relevant quotes either bolded or italicized as appropriate.
Toadesstern's post record is the longest of the surviving players, as he has also had the most suspicion on him.
First and most important to everything that follows:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12086166
This, at its very core, is what triggered people's suspicions on Toad. An exhortation based off his prior game experience in a game where I died Day 1, and Zanfada voted wrong, resulting in a scum win.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12086776
A short comment on Ciryandor trying to survive beyond Day 1.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12087114
risk.nuke calls him out on it, and puts up a reasonable defense, utilizing the context of the situation as a valid point on why the post had to be made, and also on why it did not have that much content.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12090779
He comments on Zanfada thinking defending other players for good play being done by Ciryandor is scummy, and also points to Chocolate to explain why such activity deserves to be called out on.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12090911
Then he and Chocolate try to clear stuff with each other because of his double-barreled reply and end up summarizing the earlier post saying logically it should not be an issue anyway.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12090991
As people are having communication issues with him, he tries to clear up who he wants to talk to after getting reminded by HoD.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12091077
Also, he keeps pushing on Chocolate for what he thinks of an FOS on Ciryandor, which Chocolate promptly responds to.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12091385
Then because he deems it a threat, votes on Chocolate, but unvotes after seeing nobody follow up on it.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12095606
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12098372
Then he votes Skrammen as a way out for self-preservation purposes, which I can't blame him for, also pointing out that scum votes could already be in play.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12099437
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12100435
Then he points out that if town wants a lynch, they have to vote Skrammen based off the need for 7 votes, after Skrammen does a throwaway vote and xsksc puts a pressure vote, also doing further defense after risk highlights him looking band-wagonish.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12100635
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12101410
After risk highlights why he thinks Skrammen is a townie lynch, toad responds that it's not really an easy lynch, given that Zanfada and himself were already leading in suspicion when the Skrammen vote by Ciryandor came out.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12102654
After the no-lynch, he explains why the town has to determine which if any of them is guilty, as he wants the debate on who's clean among the two of them to not last too long; and says that unfairly accused townies often have to vigorously defend themselves as they do not have enough information to actually do counter-accusations except for the slight tells one normally finds on posts, finally blowing up on risk and Skrammen for being obstructionist.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12113265
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12117335
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PBP Series Part 3: Drem903
Notes on reading this:
I will be linking to posts if I feel that the post is relevant, non-relevant comments to the game will be ignored or at least noted for their presence. Posts with important highlighted points will have relevant quotes either bolded or italicized as appropriate.
Drem903 has been with Skrammen on my likely scum list for some time already, but most of it has been for his early behavior, as I've stated in earlier responses. Let's see whether that holds up by now.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12083560
His first relevant post to the game is a random prod on xsksc. Excellent initiative of actually pointing to someone as pressure, but no vote? I'm of the school where you back up first day suspicions with pressure votes, especially in games where voting patterns are not very indicative of people's allegiances.
As I said regarding Zanfada, voting early is a risk, but somebody has to do it, and drem might have wanted to not have the pressure be on him if he did exactly that.
His next relevant post is here, where he says he was pushing for a response from xsksc with his accusation, then follows up with a short blurb on IMABUNNEH's posts being... "filler".
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12087688
He doesn't vote on him for that though, and instead picks on Zanfada's early vote. Reasonable given his lack of awareness of how voting works, but still remarkable given that players should have read up on the rules.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12087854
Then he goes back and goes for Zanfada as a possible lynch, citing inactivity and lack of response; finally voting for him later despite the suspicions on Skrammen starting to get higher.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12089957
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12100098
What we can note here following is how he essentially says: "If you're town, you should just lie down and die because it will help town more with you dead because you acted scummy as fuck."
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12116985
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12117168
Also, he tries to be evasive on why he did the Zanfada vote.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12117739
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PBP Series Part 7: IMABUNNEH
Notes on reading this:
I will be linking to posts if I feel that the post is relevant, non-relevant comments to the game will be ignored or at least noted for their presence. Posts with important highlighted points will have relevant quotes either bolded or italicized as appropriate.
His first post is fluff, does not really want to target anyone. I can't really tell whether it's unfamiliarity or whatever.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12086291
Then he reacts to Ciryandor's flippant remark on him getting killed early and lists non-posting players left by that time.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12086858
Then a surprised reaction to the early activity and Zanfada's vote on hackle:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12087223
I don't quite get what to make of this next post though:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12087880
He's wondering why people are being aggressive and calls out Toad and risk on it. With risk flipping green, I'm at an impasse on whether that means Toad is green or red.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12088420
This post leaves me wondering, he's right in saying that scumslips occur under pressure, then he goes the opposite route of people assuming Toad's actions were too scummy and says they looked okay against risk's agitations.
After that, he calls out once again the vote by Zanfada and takes the risk by wondering if either Zanfada or hackle is scum.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12090258
However, Skrammen's lack of activity takes away more of his attention, but he flops back to Zanfada; so he probably thinks these two are most suspicious at this point in time.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12091103
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12091408
Still, with the continued pressure on Toad, he finally starts to look on whether those suspicions are worth looking into, finally committing with a vote after Toad says that him getting lynched would help expose who acted scummy and who did not do so.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12098670
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12100217
For some reason, he then asks why HoD thought early on that Skrammen made a good lynch but didn't vote on it immediately, and HoD easily responds to it.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12102924
On Night 1, he implies that either Skrammen or Toad is red based off then-current information because of how Toad voted, and the fact that it would require a sneaky scumteam with Skrammen if Skrammen were the one who flipped red.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12114809
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PBP Series Part 8: Ciryandor
Notes on reading this:
I will be linking to posts if I feel that the post is relevant, non-relevant comments to the game will be ignored or at least noted for their presence. Posts with important highlighted points will have relevant quotes either bolded or italicized as appropriate.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12073564
The first post is basically Ciryandor asking Toadesstern and Zanfada to be active and work towards a more active town unlike the last time; and may have been fishing for their activity levels to show if they're town as both were last game, or they were adjusting for being a blue/scum in Zanfada's case and a VT/scum for Toad's.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12085211
After the initial accusations on xsksc by drem and vote on hacklebeast/Sermokala by Zanfada, provides some explanation for good Day 1 play to HoD, provides a relevant reason for pushing that person as a good target because they have better activity levels, pokes on Toad to be active, but proposes Chocolate for pressure. Not sure whether one would characterize that as indecisive/unwilling to vote or if there's other purpose.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12087622
A reaction on Toad's comment of trying to survive, then moves on to call out Skrammen, Chocolate and hyshes for dubious "fluff posts" on activity. The next post then tries to give Chocolate more of a push to actually commit to a vote if he believes that Toad already merits suspicion.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12087901
Then a post to explain to Drem that players can change their vote.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12087912
After this he summarizes the current situation with the confusion on an FOS on him for slightly defending Zanfada, and the heavy pressure on Toad by multiple people for what he deems a misguided attempt to lynch him on shallow reasoning; with details corrected by HoD, calling out Chocolate and the dead hyshes on not having follow-through on their suspicions.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12093237
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12094454
The next post is a big moment in Day 1, as it explains why Skrammen looks scummy and deserves his vote, then follows up with another suggested target in the name of Drem.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12098761
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12098866
A defense of his vote being called out as bad by risk happens, but is deflected as it explains the case the best that it could and nobody else had bothered putting something out on Toad and Zanfada at the time.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12104683
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PBP Series Part 9: hacklebeast/Sermokala
Notes on reading this:
I will be linking to posts if I feel that the post is relevant, non-relevant comments to the game will be ignored or at least noted for their presence. Posts with important highlighted points will have relevant quotes either bolded or italicized as appropriate.
First post on Day 1 is attacking Zanfada for good Day 1 play, which as I've said in his post, runs the risk of being characterized as scum activity trying to get momentum on a townie.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12087018
And the only other post from him is a simple attack on Toad without really highlighting the specific activity which made him look like scum.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12099024
Day 2 leaves no trace of him, then Sermokala takes over with guns blazing still focused on Toaddestern.
DAMN, I can't believe I haven't even gotten to Day/Night 2 for everyone, and I've been sifting through this for three straight hours.
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Finally, I leave to anyone who wants to follow up on my Day 1 post why they think Skrammen is a good lynch. Right now, my suspicions are on Drem and Skrammen, with xsksc being a close third. Toad and Bunneh's scumminess depend on each other, if one flips green or red, chances are the other is the same. Zanfada relies a bit on drem's flip as well. Chocolate and sermo are both non-tells, while HoD is closest to confirmed town in my eyes.
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On November 07 2011 00:38 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2011 00:13 Ciryandor wrote:
Finally, I leave to anyone who wants to follow up on my Day 1 post why they think Skrammen is a good lynch. Right now, my suspicions are on Drem and Skrammen, with xsksc being a close third. Toad and Bunneh's scumminess depend on each other, if one flips green or red, chances are the other is the same. Zanfada relies a bit on drem's flip as well. Chocolate and sermo are both non-tells, while HoD is closest to confirmed town in my eyes. pretty much sums up my thoughts as well except for maybe xsksc. I would not put him on my 3rd place of my mafia list, maybe on 4 or 5. Could you please do me a favor and tell me what you think about what I pointed out about drem just before you started doing your analyses? Because that was actually the most flashing part for me when I searched his history because I thought it's just not fitting his usual style.
Well, when you add his later Day 2 posts (the November 3 timestamps that you quoted) to that post he did and the response to Zanfada you highlighted, it certainly reinforces the fact that he hasn't been consistent, and one could certainly argue that it's a clear scum-tell. In any case, the fact that we have you, drem and skrammen so linked to each other in potential green/red flips and suspicions (accusations/counteraccusations and defenses or lack thereof) means that we'd be wasting vote cycles if we look with the null-tells. I'll assume given the no kill that it's a medic and not some convoluted scum trick, and the medic only gets stronger in stopping scum KP the better he understands who scum want/need to shoot, as it certainly relies on probabilities as well.
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I'm willing to take a risk on Chocolate (who as I've made my post seemed to have a LOT of empty, no commitment statements; and would take a possible mafia trying to hide as a no-read) or on Skrammen, who still appears scummy but not as badly as Drem. I believe I haven't voted yet, so if HoD's here and can get enough votes for a lynch, we should go for it.
HoD, do you think a Toad lynch is necessary? I don't like it right now, but I can vote for him if we can't get a swing going.
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EPT
