Pick Your Power Interesting!

On October 10 2011 12:40 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
COMMUNISM!
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=272941

On October 12 2011 02:53 GMarshal wrote:

Everyone gets to *pick* a power, assuming you don't overlap with anyone higher on the list, so everyone who picks an unique power winds up with a power. If you overlap with someone higher in the draft order you are out of luck and end up being vanilla.

Read the op *very* carefully. this is one of the most complex/fun setups around, but you need to understand the rules.

On October 12 2011 12:47 Mr. Wiggles wrote:

I thought about this, but what do you think is the possibility of mafia picking traditionally pro-town roles like DTs and Cops in order to hunt for the other scum teams?

I feel we're going to have to be very careful of attributing pro-towness to role, and avoiding the "confirmed town" mentality for DTs, even if they deliver a red to us. It will be more like they aren't part of that mafia family, more than that they become likely town.

That said, they'd still be useful, because they aren't going to hide red checks on the enemy families, and they're forced to confirm town, or lie about their own members, neither of which helps them in the long run.

So, I think a list of good town roles will be ok, so long as people are careful not to fall into the trap of role = alignment.

We should also try to take roles that are good in mafia or town hands, if possible.

On October 13 2011 03:46 chaoser wrote:


Mafia would shoot into the top of the list anyway?

On October 13 2011 07:13 Radfield wrote:
Hmm, I'm really not sure at this point if it makes sense to allocate the top picks or not. My thought is in a perfect world(where everyone follows the plan) it will likely work out great.

However, worse case scenario is that some of the top picks vocally follow the plan, and some vocally do not. This gives us half a plan, which is actually pretty bad for us. The more slots we allocate, the higher the chance of this happening.

With this in mind, we should probably only allocate 3 slots, Inventor, Thief and Swapper. However, this leaves the assassin free to kill the inventor day 1, which is a problem. Hence the addition of the assassin into the mix.

I'm honestly not sure what the best play is. Every pyp game I have played so far the inventor has ended up known, and in town hands. But with 12 mafia players, the chances of them getting the #1 slot are quite high.

What about this:

#1 Inventor
#2 Assassin
#3 Thief
#4 Swapper
#5/6/7/8 all take whatever, but also randomize in a % chance to take one of the top roles. This means Mafia cannot take for granted the ability to let a role slip, and take a risk of losing an excellent role by getting greedy.

Jimbo's thief/swapper ideas can be put to use as well to help speedily confirm the top picks.

I'd like to talk this out with people tonight. If anyone is interested and is around in about an hour or so, lets chat on IRC/Skype/whatever and hash this out. I particularly want to discuss with people who disagree with the allocation, as hopefully we can find solutions.

On October 14 2011 07:38 Radfield wrote:
Here's the thing with the mayor. In a normal set-up. one scum HAS to run for mayor, as not competing for the elected roles leaves you at a serious disadvantage. However, running for mayor also comes at a cost to mafia, as they have to spotlight themselves. Increased scrutiny goes hand in hand with running for mayor.

It is very viable for any single mafia team to simply not run, and hope that some other scum team competes and spotlights themselves. Discussion will center around every candidate running, so the ability to stay out of the spotlight while still splitting up the elected roles between multiple teams is a tempting prospect.

A couple guidelines for running for mayor as i see them:

* Do not run for mayor if you are dreamflower or Doctor
* Do not run for mayor if you are vanilla townie, unless you are a solid scumhunter(or have zero faith in any of the other options)


_______________

Framer+ NRA member poses an interesting problem. If a town player takes NRA member, the optimal play is to claim, but only if the framer has also claimed. An NRA member can absolutely NOT CLAIM if the framer is hidden. As pointed out by others, the framer could simply direct any claimed blues into the NRA member.

For this reason, I think it makes sense for Dropbear to go for Framer. I haven't fully thought of all the possibilities, but in my current wine-addled state this makes a lot of sense. There exists the possibility for Dropbear to be mafia, but I don't think there is very much mischief he can cause to us by lying, especially compared with the amount of attention he would draw on himself. Cost benefit analysis says he should draft Framer.

However, the thief/roleswapper is a problem as they could swipe the power. Dropbear can't simply come out into the thread and claim he got it. This is where Chaosers Qatol plan comes in. If a player lower down takes Qatol, they can PM Dropbear and ask him if he got framer, then ban him if he did. This nullifies the power, and leaves us in good shape.

This is a bit convoluted I admit, but I do like the idea of Dropbear going for Framer. Not much risk vs moderate reward.

________________________



Kenpachi, you have the second overall pick. I'd love to hear your overall thoughts on the game so far.

Mig, I'd like to hear your thoughts too. Is our current townie picking plan a good one? What are potential downfalls? Are there any roles that should be on the tier list? Etc.



Protact, I think you missed this question when i asked it earlier:

If cupid tries to tie the NRA member to another player, will cupid be killed?

also

What order are actions performed in. If a role swapper and thief both target the same player, which person gets the role? First player to send in their action I presume?

On October 14 2011 08:12 Jackal58 wrote:
Qatol can ban daily. It's not a one off power.

On October 14 2011 13:49 chaoser wrote:


Obviously you should vote me since I am both in the middle of the order (albeit low middle) and also have a lynch target. Also, I put up a picture of Mike Haggar. And he is awesome. He can beat up any stupid stick figures and numbers mean nothing to him.

On October 15 2011 06:22 hiro protagonist wrote:


I'll let you think about it for awhile...

On October 15 2011 06:54 hiro protagonist wrote:


they can both die by lynch.

On October 15 2011 15:50 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
I'm up for putting Greymist in office, If his answer these is satisfactory I think he'd be best as pardoner, because that's the more powerful role of the two.





As for mayor. It's still between wiggles/radfield/jimbo, leaning on wiggles because he's the only one to have answered to both of these posts in the thread, and against jimbo because of his high spot in the drafting.

On October 15 2011 16:15 Scamp wrote:
Oh sweet. In PMs he's town. Yes that's convincing.

Greymist what did WBG PM you about?

On October 14 2011 11:49 Scamp wrote:
Jimbo is exactly right. Luckily there's not much time left so everyone's prolly sent in their picks already.

The reality is that there are 12 mafia and 16 townies. That is an absurdly ridiculous ratio. If I were mafia I'd take whatever kills as much as possible and just start massacring everything.

The only way the town can win is if the mafia shoot each other. If the mafia families suck then the town is screwed. (Actually, the last multiple-mafia-family game I was in ended in a tie thanks to late modkills and my medical prowess.)

I really hope the discussion caused mafia members to try to take investigative roles.

On October 16 2011 04:06 kitaman27 wrote:
By the way, I tracked chaoser to a kill tonight.

On October 16 2011 04:41 chaoser wrote:
Aside from sandroba I'd like to make a case against Prphlz:

The first post of his that stood out to me was:



What??? But from playing with him in LOTR I understand that he has word vomit so I understand if he's just being stupid but...

not only does he ask for a coach before the game started:



but he also jsut agrees with everyone and says nothing original:







When it was said wayyy earlier



All of these have been said by many many other people.

Finally, prphlz was townie in LOTR which was last game. If you read over his posts you'll notice that he tunnels everyone he feels like mafia, being very active about expressing his opinions on who he thinks is mafia.

In this game?



Never does any scum hunting.

On October 16 2011 04:50 hiro protagonist wrote:
lol, Im always suspicious day 1 when Im town. I think I am the opposite of Mig in that regard, because I am great at being scum, but Im terrible at playing townie

Scum hiro would have never said the things that I have said so far this game. PM me if anyone wants to chat.

On October 16 2011 11:28 Radfield wrote:
I'm trying to find alternate lynch candidates at the moment. I would love to have everyones input.

Chaoser is still on the short list, but there may be someone better we can all agree on.

On October 16 2011 01:25 Erandorr wrote:
Sorry that I have not been active in the thread as of yet.

I want Mig as Mayor for several reasons. For one I know how good of a scumhunter he is. Having someone as strong as him in that position can only benefit us if Mig is town. And I am convinced of that based on all our conversations.
He is also not known for being a good scumplayer and for one I just do not think he would put himself in the spotlight as scum. The only real issue I can see there is that Scum in this game can actually legitimatly Scumhunt, and thus make it easier for Mig to fit if he where Mafia. That being said, for me there is no way that he would do something that agressive, especially since he is very open on Skype. He really would be transparent, in my opinion and from a personal point of view, I am jus far better at judgin him than Radfield, for example, who I think would be able to pull this of as Scum.
I also like the point Arcto made. Syllo/Mig/Sandro would never play like this if they where on a Scumteam and I too have talked to all of them so much that I am very certain that Mig/Syllo are town and pretty certain that Sandro is, too.

Sooo Mig for mayor , yay!

As for a Day1 Lynch I really do like Chaoser. I pretty much just agree with Mig on that one and just would like to add that after playing XLIV with him(on a mafia team), it seems very likely to me that he is scum. I also really dislike his pulling out of the mayoral campaign so early.

So Chaoser for Day1 lynch, also yay!

On October 17 2011 12:20 Jackal58 wrote:

Probably means Hiro is NRA.

On October 17 2011 13:06 Incognito wrote:

No.

On October 17 2011 13:25 Kenpachi wrote:
KEKEKE

I will accuse TWO people.

Deconduo, you are Tudor scum. I was the NKVD Agent (checked decond) and I had my roleswapped and GreYMisT asked this


LOLOLOL YOU SCUMBITCH YORK I WANT MY ROLEBACK

SO, DAY VIG OR DOUBLE LYNCHER. UNLEASH THE KRAKEN

HAHAHAHAHA

On October 17 2011 16:02 Scamp wrote:
Clearly I am claiming America. So there.

WBG you have it wrong, the nuke falls at the end of the day, not in 12 hours. I have to use it prior 12 hours before the day ends.

If Decon doesn't flip Tudor we should kill Kenpachi.

On October 16 2011 12:40 Protactinium wrote:

Node the traitorous American Earl of Cambridge of the House of York was drowned in coffee.

On October 17 2011 16:13 Scamp wrote:
All I'm saying is that if you role check me the result will be "America". Really. Get someone to role check me and you'll see.

Or just wait until the end of the day. Wanna see the fireworks?

On October 18 2011 06:28 Kenpachi wrote:
oh and thats also the reason why i think GreYMisT is a fellow York of Kitaman..

On October 18 2011 14:22 Foolishness wrote:
I'm going to try to get everyone who mentioned me in this post, and say everything of relevance. I can't answer everything at once so don't get all pissy if I only answered 9 out of 10 of your questions. In no particular order:

No, my plan was not centered around getting shot. My plan was centered on getting shit done because I assumed I would be shot. Of any of the candidates proposed so far I'd vote for sandroba, but this isn't news to anyone. But speaking of him, you say that he's been open on skype and helped you scum hunt. Believe it or not there are some people who would be able to vouch that for me too. But that's not what this is about. I'll give you my situation is worse than his because he was active at the beginning of day 1 and was proven to be very involved in the ongoings of the town. However since then he's done zilch in the thread besides respond with witty and snarky comments (he learned from me!!!).

Enough about this Greymist crap. That's a sorry excuse to use as gunpowder. I am not the only one who voted for Greymist or agreed that he should be elected, many others expressed the same concerns that I did. The Radfield/sandroba/syllogism/Mig group (hence know as the "Radfield Group" in this post) seemed to easy to be under mafia influence. Greymist showed to me that he had honest intentions for the town and that he was competent enough to use them. And I'm not the only one he did this to. Radfield had honest intentions for the town but I couldn't help but think he was being manipulated by mafia.

And I kept telling people that it's very likely there's a mafia in Radfield's group. And everyone I told this to said, "no, I've talked with them all in PM, they all townies". Finally days later Radfield tells me:

[7:12:07 PM] Mike Hadfield (Radfield): my little group
[7:12:07 PM] Mike Hadfield (Radfield): has a little leak
[7:12:08 PM] Mike Hadfield (Radfield): in my opinion

Also don't forget in Radfield's recent post he said "OK, we have a problem town."

Yeah I tried to warn you guys about this happening but nobody listened and everyone chose to point fingers instead. You guys have only yourself to blame as to why Palmar seems to know everything about everyone, despite the fact that nobody seems to be talking to him.

I voted for Greymist because I knew he wouldn't let something like that happened. I'm pretty sure a few others were thinking along the same lines as me. If Greymist flips town would you still say it was mafia-like to push him into office?

I would also like to say this to Mig, although it may apply to a few others as well, that you are quick to jump on anyone that does anything that is anti-Radfield or anti-sandroba. You say that "If scum were playing optimally the last thing they would want is me or radfield protected" yet you (most likely) cannot 100% prove that Radfield (or sandroba or syllogism or all 3) is town. And even if you could now you couldn't before elections started. Stop sucking up to players in your little blue circle which, in case you forgot, the leader of which claims there's a leak in.

Don't base your arguments around "well he went against Radfield/sandroba/Mig he must be playing for the mafia". Go find your leak before it's too late.

I'll agree that I haven't been posting like a monster, but the latter part of the sentence I have been doing. Also I really hope we are all above policy lynching here, we're all good players here, if you want to policy lynch why not role a die to decide who dreamflower is shooting tonight?

**Note I removed some of the content from prplhz's original post cause of the shear length, please go read his original for the irc logs and for more information.

I'm just going to ignore anything you say relating to wbg, because that has nothing to do with me being scum. Unless you want to accuse both of us being scum, and if that's the case then say so. But have fun trying to make that one work.

Yes I was PMing with chaoser and kitaman. You say I didn't pick up anything but how would you know? I'm not part of the Radfield group, I make sure my information is kept in the right people. Even today I told Radfield a few things and I'm sure the entire town knows by now. You seem to be connected indirectly to the Radfield group and I have no reason to trust you of course you're not going to know anything about me.

And yes, because I was talking to chaoser and kitaman I thought I had an idea on who they were shooting that night. And had it turn out the way I thought it would I would have had a big lead on some mafia, but that's not the way the cookie crumbled. Of course thanks to the Radfield group everyone knew about how chaoser died. drp

What have I done for the town? Let me tell you a few things I have not done. I have not put my blind trust in 3 or more players from the beginning of the game (and consequently not making sure said people know everything I've done including what I'm eating for breakfast). I have not been responsible for Palmar finding out an obscene amount of information he should not know. I have not been part of a town circle that has leaked information. I have not become town leader only to tell the town "oops, we're actually in a bad position because information is spreading faster than Yogi Bear steals picnic baskets."

---

To anything that Palmar has ever said:

On October 19 2011 07:07 Kenpachi wrote:

no u
Greymist said he was bodyguard no?

On October 19 2011 11:08 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Meapak looked out from his castle window across his lands. As far as the eye could see there were masses of torches and pitchforks. The anarchists had finally come for his castle and his lands. Sprinkled amongst the angry mob he could see the hooded figures of his enemies who had managed to infiltrate the pathetic mob in order to take him down. Meapak glanced at the clock and sighed, the warrant for his lynch had become operational three minutes ago. "what's taking them so long" he groused. Abandoned by his family, and his body guards Meapak surveyed his ante chamber. The last of his messenger pigeons had been sent out, there was no help coming. His eye fell on his trusty old guitar. Though he didn't play it much anymore, he could still remember a few riffs from his days as a rock star. He plugged the amp into his medevial electricity generation device and cranked the sound as loud as it would go. He heard the front doors come crashing down as he began to belt out the intro to Knights of Cydonia. " Bring it on bitches" Meapak bellowed.

On October 21 2011 05:23 supersoft wrote:
tbh i lost every interest in this game. i am not scum and hider is a decent defensive role at #18
i can confirm others like eran and i can hide behind guaranteed townies.
mig, if you dont answer my pms, i cant do anything.
i tried to do something together with palmar. but since genius jackal bombed him away I am completely isolated.
+ wbg is so annoying, i wont ever play a game with him again. his selfconfidence is just ridiculous when you see his results.

if i were scum, this idiot would be dead by now. thats for sure.. maybe not to win, but to have fun in this game.

On October 21 2011 12:17 Kenpachi wrote:

Kenpachi 2.0 disappoints.

I never like lynching my clone because the guy ends up flipping town all the time :l

On October 21 2011 11:26 Radfield wrote:
Its apparent the mods are no longer willing to update the OP. So lets think about this.

If Foolish was scum, he was almost certainly Lancaster. That means 1 team is dead. It also explains the missing medic protection from Wiggles on Night 1. He is the only possible player that makes sense for Wiggles to protect.

Jimbo I am not sure however. The BB check returned no gun, and his play this game has been fairly pro-town, except for the invention. There is no way that a town-aligned player would create something like BM, and not create something that directly helps town. If Jimbo was scum, he was York as he was for sure not lancaster(got cheese and chaoser killed) and when Foolish was discussing with Decon it seemed apparent that Decon and Jimbo were not on the same team.

Foolish told me the night before he died that Jimbo was getting Framed. In fact, here was his final PM:



Right now I am fairly confidant that Heist, Errandorr and Jaccuzi are town. Foolish is dead(and Lancaster), so that leaves Sinani as the last Tudor. Foolishness was trying to show how 'helpful' he was, so he was feeding me bits of info.

I think that with Super and Sinani dying, we're going to see the last of the Tudors. Lancasters are already dead, so that leaves either 1 or 2 Yorkists left, which means only 1 scum KP remaining.

Foolish mentions a framer in his PM, and that would certainly explain why Jimbo had no gun when the BB checked him. However if there is a Framer I don't know who it would be. Tudors don't have a Framer, because they would have made Meapak or Decon look town on Night 1. Lancasters don't have a Framer because they are dead, but also because they already had cheese as godfather. So that means if there is a Framer he is York, which fits with the fact that Jimbo was apparently framed.

There are very few people at this stage who even COULD be the framer, so we should be able to nail them down quick.

Just thought I'd do some theorycrafting We'll see how it all pans out. With all our townside KP and investigations, by morning we should have the last of the scum either dead or caught.

On October 22 2011 18:08 flamewheel wrote:
LONG LIVE AMERICA.