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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On October 15 2011 19:42 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
I'm going to go with voting wiggles.
I think someone we see as the best choice should come second and be pardoner, and I think greymist can secure enough votes to do that, and out of the others wiggles is my second preference.
Why are you voting for wiggles, when he probably one of the most likely to be scum of the remaining candidates? Why are you ignoring Mig as a candidate? Also, you stated the main reason you were leaning wiggles was because he answered your questions, yet now as far as I can tell all the major candidates have stated their lynch intentions. What are your reasons for voting Wiggles now?
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On October 15 2011 21:01 Arctocod wrote:
Hello, I am Arctocod.
Here are my observations.
With no disrespect to Greymist, he is not a veteran and has yet to show himself to be excellent at Mafia. I find it extremely weird that anyone is supporting him into office, because there's nothing more dangerous to the mafia than a very good player who cannot be killed.
This is something I'd expect experienced players to recognize. The fact that this is being ignored and a newbie is being voted into position is simply based on fear of what if either Radfield or Mig is scum.
Here is something interesting.
I think we can all agree that the trio of Syllogism, Mig and Sandroba is composed of some of the best players in this game. It is highly unlikely they'd support each other so openly if they were on the same scumteam, not to mention the possibility of those three friends getting mixed up in one team is very slim.
So this means that at least 1-2 of them are pushing the Mig candidacy with honest intentions. After having spoken extensively with all of them I am convinced Syllogism is town, and I think Mig is town. Sandroba is a bit more shady, but he is pushing something logical.
I do not mind people not agreeing about the conclusion that Mig is the best choice, I do however really not want a new player voted into office, that's directly pushing mafia agenda as the best way for mafia to deal with a strong town double voter is to make sure the position is badly manned.
I want to iterate this: The second best choice for any mafia family after putting one of their own into position, is to put a weak player into position.
I am especially surprised to see Foolishness cast his vote away like that. Someone who is as capable as he is at this game, someone who can tell scum from town with real ease, should definitely share his reads and explain to us why we should be voting the same way as he does.
I fully agree with Arcto here. I even agree with players that Greymist is possibly town. But the main benefit that the elected roles confer is NOT the powers, it is the protection.
Fact is, there is relatively little danger of having scum in the elected roles until the extreme late game(unless they get hero/vet, but that is unlikely). The main downside of voting in scum is that you lose the opportunity to protect a strong townie. NOT that you possibly confer a power onto scum.
As long as the elected roles(particularly pardoner) are not allowed to reach the endgame, the best play is to vote in strong townies. If they are confirmed town in the meantime, even better.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
I will be gone today from ~1:30 - 11:15 KST(about 45 min before the lynch).
Unfortunately this is the most important time to push my candidacy, but it can't be helped. I will try to answer PMs from work, and if it's slow I may be able to post in thread.
I should be back in plenty of time to discuss the lynch, and to adjust if necessary.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Kita, since your here. What are your thoughts on the game. Mayor? Lynch? etc
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Who is a better lynch candidate than you chaser?
Would you define your role as more pro-town, good for either(or vanilla), or pro-mafia?
Role does not equal alignment, but some roles are borderline useless for mafia and it would be silly to ignore this fact.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On October 16 2011 06:12 kitaman27 wrote:
Mig/Radfield, would you both be capable of being around at the deadline each cycle if you were to be elected the pardoner?
I don't think there is a need for that. Protect said we can conditionally pardon.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On October 16 2011 07:03 wherebugsgo wrote:
It's clear that we can't get Radfield off the platform. (or, rather, I can't)
So, instead, I'd prefer Mig to 100% get the mayor role. So, I've switched my vote to Mig.
I'd rather have Mig as Mayor and be assured that we know who the bodyguards are than have Radfield as mayor and be unsure.
If you are more sure of Mig, then you should want him as pardoner
Not to mention I have stated several times that my role has excellent synergy with the mayoral position. Besides, no scum elected role would try to kill the bodyguards in this setup, since it protects them from the other scum teams.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Is sinani playing in thi game? He is not mentioned by protact in the voting thread, is not answering my PM, and I don't think he has even posted.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
I will be home in ~30 minutes and would like to discuss this at length.
Im not sure if chaser is still the best lynch, though I freely admit I don't have a better candidate ATM.
* no one has defended chaser, and Everyone seems to think he is scum.
* if chaser is scum, I would expect more votes for jumbo since he is the only candidate nit set on lynching chaoser.
I'm not saying I won't lynch chaser, but these two things raise red flags. I would like to discuss it when I get back. Thoughts?
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
I'm trying to find alternate lynch candidates at the moment. I would love to have everyones input.
Chaoser is still on the short list, but there may be someone better we can all agree on.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
WHERE ARE YOU BUGS! GET ON SKYPE OR IRC
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
are you talking to me? wtf? we're on skype
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
I want to lynch heist, people have about 8 minutes to tlake to me
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
OK, last night i was pretty frayed after 9 hours of work + 1 hour of furious discussion, and probably let more slip than i should have regarding various roles.
Anyways Heist, it's not so much that you looked particularly scummy, but I wanted an alternative to Chaoser, and with only a half-hour to scumhunt you looked pretty good, and were fairly acceptable to most people. The last thing I wanted was to not kill chaoser, and kill a player who others thought was town. Anyways, node won out based on my PMs with him mainly, and the fact that he was also an acceptable lynch to the 5 or 6 players I was discussing with.
There is going to be a lot of action tonight, so we need to sort some things out.
If you are a weak doctor, you need to either telegraph who you are protecting, or outright tell someone(at like 1-2 minutes before the deadline). Telegraphing is preferable however.
Meapak has claimed inventor in thread, yet many players seem to have missed that fact(including node  ). Medic/Doctor protection should be on him, since as long as he co-operates with us he should be allowed to live. However the likelihood of him getting his role stolen/swapped is like 99%, so maybe we don't need to let him live after all. Since if he gets killed after getting his role taken, it isn't a big deal.
In fact, I just noticed this from the OP regarding thief: Neither you nor they may not use their role the cycle you steal from them. + Show Spoiler +I assume it's supposed to say Neither you nor they may use their role the cycle you steal from them.
So that means that we may not get an invention after all, or at least that Meapak can give the invention to his scumbuddy, and claim he had it stolen. In light of this, I'm actually thinking we should NOT protect him tonight. Not sure yet though, but i'd like to hear some opinions on this.
At any rate, a weak doctor should absolutely NOT protect meapak. As has been mentioned in thread, both Errandor and prp have tried for dreamflower and gotten vanilla. This means they are likely town, and likely bodyguards(I don't actually have the list yet), and hence a good place for the weak doctor to protect.
Pending the answer to the question below, the jailkeeper should not target Meapak.
What happens to the thief if the player he tries to steal from is 'jailkeepered'. Does the thief get another shot on a later night, or does he lose his power?
I think the chances of one of the top 4 roles having the NRA member are fairly strong(other than meapak, who probably IS the inventor). Therefore, any role with the ability to visit should think long and hard before targeting any of Kenpachi, Jimbo, Deconduo.
Can the framer cause vanilla townies to 'visit' the NRA member, and hence be killed?
Given that node flipped America, yet we didn't have an anonymous nuke fired day 1, there is probably no politician. Or at least no politician on Node's team. I wouldn't be surprised if multiple teams went for an america/politician combo. (I don't think there is any evidence of vote tampering either, but I wouldn't expect it at this stage)
Detectives have a slew of good targets, but again, I would be wary of investigating the #2/3/4 picks at this point. We're not in a rush to catch scum, and even if we were there are plenty of other people outside those picks worth investigating. Not to mention that finding confirmed town at this point is good as well.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Node was definitely America, since otherwise it would say he was vanilla, or some other role. Not to mention that is bizarre flavor text for the current theme.
You're right though, with America taken at pick 17 there were unlikely multiple teams going for an america/politician combo.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
I don't buy it Palmar. I don't have a ton of time to hash it out hard, but I will be on later tonight.
Meapak casually and without responsibility gives his thoughts on the setup
Meapak decides to run for mayor
Meapak trashes the very town-looking mig/radfield train and accuses me of being scum
Meapak withdraws his application
Meapak claims roleblock on his invention
Let's go over your points. I agree that pre role-selection Meapak looked pretty shifty, specifically I had him listed as "poor logic/buddying/tentative" on my spreadsheet. But I had plenty of players like that, and pre-game PYP isn't exactly super conducive to making reads.
Meapak ran for mayor, and then dropped out suddenly. He also outted that he was inventor, which was really dumb. When I PMed him about this, here was his response:
I understand the risks of giving mayor to the top spot, however I have to at least try and run. Whether I role claimed or not, as the #1 pick I have no doubt I will be targeted by the thief and role swapper tonight. If I can get those bodyguards I won't have to worry about any of that. I at least wanna be able to get a couple inventions off before I die and bgs are the most surefire way.
I will support if it becomes apparent I don't have a chance (don't write me off yet, the day has just begun), or if it's to deny Mig/Sandroba.
I obviously pointed out that bgs don't work that way, but i can see how someone may think that, and it goes a long way to explaining both revealing his role in-thread, and why he then he didn't press his campaign.
Point 3: I don't think it's fair to call me and Mig a 'train on day 1'. In fact, I would say the train was mig/syllo/sandro and I was initially very suspicious of it as well. In fact, until learning additional info, I was pretty sure Mig at least was scum, So i can definitely understand why players would be against that train. His response to me:
Fuck well so much for that plan. I'm gonna have to think for a bit now. In any event, you can count on my support over the likes of mig and syllo.
He DID support me, and followed through with his vote. In fact, him withdrawing his mayor application was very much due to my interference:
Your chances of getting mayor are extremely slim. The risk of giving the top slot mayor is too great, as had already been discussed in the thread. You need to rely on medic protection, and hope that you get off the Police Radio(or other invention). Chances of you getting your role stolen or swapped tonight are very very high
Given you think I am town, I could use your support. If I don't get an elected position, I am almost surely going to get shot tonight.
There is more going on this game than simply what is in thread Palmar. You of all people should know that.
The fact that Meapak was roleblocked is a null-tell. Yes he could be scum and didn't want to have to give his invention to me or mig(the only viable people to give to), but obviously if we DO have a roleblocker, Meapak would be the target.
Lynching Meapak at this point is stupid. If he IS the inventor, we should clear out the scum in front of us first, and hope that we hit the roleblocker. That would go along way to confirming Meapak as telling the truth(though not confirm him as town). Do I think Meapak is town? Not really, but inventions are too important at this point to ignore.
Foolishness is super scummy at any rate, though there may be better targets as well. I will have more time to look things over after work.
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EPT
