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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
I have not done anything to warrant such an accusation. If you don't agree that tnkted is scummy for his plan, fine. Just think about it, though. If mafia establish who the mute players are (let's say they find like 4 mutes) then they shoot into that list and they have 1/4+1/3 chance of hitting the sniper if there is only one sniper, or more than 50% (7/12 chance). If there are two snipers or fewer mutes the chance of them hitting the sniper is even bigger. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Let's say a townie medic looks for mutes so he has a good chance of protting the vig. Mafia can easily fake mute and then draw the medic prot. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On September 29 2011 05:43 Mig wrote: WBG if tnkted is mafia do you think he would announce this plan in the thread or would he just pm a bunch of people on his own? What motivation does mafia have to post the plan in thread. Both. In fact, if I was scum I'd do something very similar what tnkted has done so far. You can establish yourself as a town contributor by posting a plan in the thread, for example. The PMs and mute mechanic favor mafia IMO. If I was mafia I'd love to PM people to influence their reads and create chaos behind the scenes. I'd also fish for mutes and shoot them all since they're likely to be more active in the thread, more likely to be a vig, and because they are not manipulable through PMs because they can't PM. If mafia shoots all the mutes the vig will most certainly be dead by day 3. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Like, for example, these posts: On September 29 2011 08:14 Jackal58 wrote: Bugs is scum. He's not playing like an idiot. Is Jackal dumb town for thinking I'm scum (and not even knowing my meta despite Jackal playing in every single game I've ever appeared in?) or is he scum because he accuses me of being scum without voting me and making his opinion real? On September 29 2011 06:54 Kenpachi wrote: hi guys im townie sorry for immediate inactivity, i was busier than normal in the past 2 days. I also dont know what the fuck we are doing voting people for no good reason. Is Kenpachi dumb/useless town because he highlighted townie in blue, said he was townie, and is inactive, or is he scum because he's always inactive and this time he actually decided to give an excuse for it? Is anyone else seeing this shit or am I just super picky? Anyway, I'm going to ignore them unless something changes before tomorrow. So, let's move on to some people I think we can actually consider seriously at this moment in time: On tnkted: On September 29 2011 05:58 Mig wrote: Ok but honestly who cares? So mafia shoots sinani/etc in the hopes of killing the vigs? Good for them. They are shooting people who can't mason and aren't hitting out other power roles. People who can't pm and vigs are a lot less important than active townies and meds/dts. And you realize that if tnkted posts this plan to list the mutes in thread and suddenly mafia starts sniping them it makes him look terrible right? Mafia are much more likely to pm everyone on their own than they are to post about it in the thread and risk the backlash. And maybe you would want to pm people to try and manipulate them but in general the ability to pm strongly favors townies. Your case against tnkted is incredibly weak you are stretching with almost all your statements to try and make him appear scummy. You and I have a different view of the PM/mute mechanic. You think the mason mechanic is useful for town. I think it's useful to an extent but I don't trust it. Smart scum will use the mason mechanic to manipulate town and get what they want by selectively distributing misinformation. They can also convince townies that they are town and even contradict themselves in the thread while telling people in PMs other things; dumb townies are even predisposed to believing them. I also think that, because the muted players are much more likely to be townies, these guys will be posting in the thread more because that's all they can do. Thus, I imagine that these players will attempt to contribute more in the thread rather than actively lurk in the thread while spamming others with PMs (since they don't have that ability to begin with) Thus, aiming for muted players, IMO, is actually OPTIMAL for scum. Of course, if a muted player turns out to be a shitty town contributor in the thread then of course scum will probably not find a good reason to shoot them, but I think muted players will be predisposed to contributing more in the thread since that's all they can do. Also, you don't know that they're not hitting the other power roles. What happens if a power role (other than the sniper) is also mute? Finally my case on tnkted is not weak IMO, but if you think it's so weak you need to put up an alternate person with some reasoning instead of just attacking my methodology. On September 29 2011 06:20 tnkted wrote: I think the sniper roles in this game are pretty stupid anyway. The minute one sniper posts #kill whoever the other sniper is just gonna kill the first sniper and claim that hes the REAL sniper, that other guy is an imposter (this is assuming that there is 1 sniper on each team which doesn't seem that unreasonable to me). More shitty logic. as prpl already pointed out we'll find out whether the sniper who countershot is full of shit or not when the flip happens. It doesn't make sense from either side to do something like this because you can't assume that town only has one blu sniper! If we have two blu snipers and the scum team has none then what? If we have two blu and the scum team has one then what? Your logic isn't making sense, dude. On September 29 2011 07:27 tnkted wrote: Yes but the red sniper only gets one kill anyway. So he might as well get the town vig, who has TWO shots. Otherwise, if he lets the town vig live, he's basically claiming mafia if he shoots later in the game. Again, this makes no sense. One for one trade is only beneficial from the town side, and ONLY if we can correctly assume that there aren't two town snipers. If the town sided sniper shoots and then the red sniper shoots the townie the countershooter will be lynched the following day no matter what. That's not favorable for mafia. The red sniper will probably only shoot a scummy target or will shoot if he knows he's about to die due to lynch or aimed shot, countershooting will likely never happen. (and if it does we need to lynch whoever the fuck does it and ends up getting a townie shot) On September 29 2011 06:12 Palmar wrote: I agree with Mig btw. But I don't think WBG is scum either, just have a quick look at the way he's posting. I don't think he's actually played scum, but this looks much more like his overconfident in your face town play. Both being wrong and being aggressive fit his meta perfectly. that being said: ##Vote Jackal58 And here we have Palmar. I'll be watching you carefully Palmar. Just so you know. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On September 29 2011 08:47 risk.nuke wrote: prphlz we shouldn't role over, but if we need to lynch someone day 1 we need to make an as educated guess as we can. Random lynching does not favor town since random lynchs mean percentage wise we're always more likely to hit town then scum. In addition scum will always have scum friends to manipulate the outcome so chances of hitting scum like that is even less then the original 1/4. How long left untill night starts? stop pretending to contribute. If you think random lynches are bad then identify which of the current lynch targets are random and put one up of your own that clearly isn't random because you have reasoning for it. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On September 29 2011 08:57 Palmar wrote: Jackal always lurks days 1-2, but there is actually a difference in the content of the things he writes. Whatever little he posts as town is usually at least semi-informative, but Jackal's preferred method of playing scum is to completely deny information. Feigning mute fits 100% with what I'd expect jackal to do as scum. And if you read through his posts there is almost no content in them. This is jackal accusing WBG in LOTR on day one: This is jackal accusing WBG in this game day one: Can you spot the difference? He does at least give reasoning in LOTR, even if most of the post is speculation about mechanics. But at least he posted quite a bit in the first day of that game. My vote staying on Jackal, I suggest the rest of you do the same. You're right, this is how he posted as scum in resurrection too. When I switched from Ace to Jackal in my tunnel he completely shut down, too. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On September 29 2011 09:33 Jackal58 wrote: In Aces Some Mafia Game he makes intentional "scum slips" as town for reasons only he knows. He didn't bother to share his reasoning after the game he just basically said "tuff shit". In LOTR he attempted to play up a 3rd party persona for reasons I still don't get. His play in MLP is pretty much like it is now. Fucking normal. I noticed the difference in that game and even made a joke about him being scum since he wasn't playing scummy town. I didn't know I was right when I made the joke. He's playing the same game here. He's scum. So is Palmar I suspect. Go read Bugs play in Aces game and LOTR and compare to MLP. Won't take much to see the diff. The townie village idiot play comes out immediately. The "Let's find scum and analyze" scum Bugs comes out immediately too. Bugs is scum. Actually I did explain the reason I "acted scummy" in both games. It was to make everyone act the same toward me, and to trap those who focused on certain specific things. In LoTR by trolling I identified those who had shitty reasons for voting me (Dr. H, Drazerk) In Ace's game not everyone agreed with my methodology either, which is fine, but I actually trapped both chaos13 and Palmar with what I did. I wrongly thought chaos13 was just dumb town for reacting the way he did so I ignored him, but Palmar I grasped onto. If you notice, before I died I switched off tunneling you, Jackal, into saying I'd rather have Palmar lynched the next day. Lo and behold he ended up being scum in the end. In fact, normally when I stop tunneling someone very abruptly it's because I have a huge gut feeling on another person who is more likely to be scum. This happened in resurrection with Ace/Jackal where I just realized there was no way Ace was scum and Jackal had to be the one, it happened in SMG with Curu/Jackal/Palmar where I just dropped Curu and Jackal and decided Palmar was it, it happened in LoTR when I dropped Drazerk and Trancestorm dead cold and pursued Dr. H, and now I think Jackal is scum too so I'll have to set aside tnkted for later. Lastly you're dead wrong about MLP too because I did "act scummy" there as well. Remember day 2 and the piece bs? Remember my slip with respect to the timing of receiving my piece? ##unvote tnkted ##vote Jackal58 | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
In XLIV I abruptly stopped tunneling Palmar/super after the hiro lynch and focused on vain/bum. Tracked bum and then abruptly forgot about vain (and took shit tons of heat for it) because I tracked bum to vain. Died that night and flipped tracker and town lynched bum the next day. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On August 13 2011 08:25 GMarshal wrote: Player List + Show Spoiler [ contains game relevant spoilers] +
2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9. Erandorr Cult Initiate (Mafia Goon), Survives in the endgame 10. 11. 12. 13. 14. 15. chaoser Cult Initiate (Mafia Goon), Survives in the endgame 16. 17. 18. 19. 20. 21. Curu cult initiate (Mafia Roleblocker), Survives in the endgame 22. 23. 24. 25. 26. 27. 28. 29. 30. You were alive for a whole two days in XLIV. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
You know, that shitty start of the game vote that you have yet to change, or, hell, even put in the voting thread? Fakevote much? Don't have any scumreads? Don't intend to contribute? | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On September 29 2011 10:06 Jackal58 wrote: If you check the voting thread you'll see I haven't voted for anybody yet. My vote on Palmar in this thread was the same as everybody else. Spam. I've got 1 scum in my sights. Let's lynch you and the move on to number 2. vote me then. Put your vote where your mouth is and provide some real reasoning too. Why should we keep you alive when you're making up excuses for "not remembering" a game in which you were alive for over 4 real-time days? Why should we keep you alive when your meta conforms to how you've played scum in other games? Why should we keep you alive when you adamantly refuse to contribute? | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On September 29 2011 10:17 Jackal58 wrote: You don't like my contribution? It seems to have hit a giant scummy nerve. All you're doing is one giant OMGUS. You're scum bro. What contribution? You haven't even fucking voted yet | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On September 29 2011 10:23 jcarlsoniv wrote: WBG and Jackal, I feel like this is just a huge argument that is distracting. It feels like a lot of yelling and OMGUS. This seems to resemble the yelling between Ace and WBG in Resurrection. They both turned out to be town... Take a little bit of time to consider what Jackal has said. 1. He's misconstrued my meta 2. As Palmar has said, he's conformed to his own meta of how he plays scum 3. He's claimed to have "forgotten" participation in a game that happened less than a month ago, in which he was alive till night 2 as a townie 4. He's claimed to have "contributed" when in reality he hasn't even voted yet. You tell me which of these things is pro-town. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On September 29 2011 10:50 Erandorr wrote: First you say that you will ignore Jackal for now and push tnkted , and after being accused you roll in with this conviction jackal is scum? You scum again? 1) this is kind of similar to the way you played MLP, from the point when I was replaced in and wasnt that the first time you where scum? 2) The only real argument, that is not even coming from you 3) lying about that would be unbelievably stupid and I cannot believe he would do that. 4)what is that even supposed to mean? Why so defensive my friend? Yes, I did say I was going to ignore him. Then I changed my mind. No reason to ignore him when he's being more scummy than tnkted is. 1. What? How is it similar? 2. Who cares if it's coming from me or not? Argue the point on its validity, not its source (unless, of course, the source is scum) 3. This is Jackal we're talking about. You weren't there in Resurrection for the way I caught him on a lie there, so I wouldn't expect you to know this. 4. It means what it says. He is saying he has contributed something. He hasn't. He hasn't voted yet and a vote is the biggest contribution a townie can make. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On September 29 2011 11:04 Jackal58 wrote: I'll vote when I vote. Wtf does voting have to do with anything I've brought up? You're stretching man. If your vote doesn't follow your thoughts then IMO you're scum. Guess how I found ON to be scum in resurrection? + Show Spoiler + his vote didn't match his reasoning Lack of a vote while FoSing someone, or a vote not conforming with your thoughts, IMO, is one of the best ways to find scum. You have done the former. You claim that I am your #1 scum but you don't even vote me. Guess what genius, that's scum play. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On September 29 2011 11:10 Jackal58 wrote: Guess what genius, no it's not. Sorry NotChezinu I have not seen your cat. soooo lemme get this straight. -you're gonna vote when you "feel like it" + Show Spoiler + sounds like you're scared -you think you've actually contributed something -you have me as #1 scum but I'm not yet worthy of a vote + Show Spoiler + wtf? -I'm gonna guess that you'll vote me as soon as some derp townies think I'm a good vote cause they believe that I'm OMGUSing | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On September 29 2011 11:17 Nisani201 wrote: I have yet to see anything scummy in Jackal's play. On the other hand, we have WBG OMGUSing, while mirroring his play from MLP mafia. You guys make this too easy. I know where I'm placing my vote. ##Vote: wherebugsgo oh look here's derp townie #1 Nisani to the rescue guess we need a couple more townies to vote me and then Jackal will jump on my bandwagon, eh? | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
almost. You still have no credibility, but I'm not scum. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On September 29 2011 11:31 Jackal58 wrote: Scared? Of what? This is a game dude. My contribution is the same as your earlier FoS and vote on tnkted. Except your reasoning made little sense in regards to him being scum "because he was going to PM everybody". I make a point about your play and you go nuts. And yes you are OMGUSing me. Big time. But I haven't contributed. Because my FoS is on you. Would my contribution count in your eyes if I had FoSed somebody else? Hard to start up your own bandwagon isn't it? And as far as voting goes I'm going to refrain from doing so for a while because that fact apparently pisses you off.  If you actually provided a reason for FoSing me when asked that'd be a contribution. I told everyone in the thread why I suspect tnkted (and still do actually) Also, anyone who thinks my vote on you is an OMGUS should seriously consider rereading the thread. Look at when I vote you. I vote you once I realize that Palmar's argument that you're following your scum meta is dead on, and that you haven't contributed anything. When I voted you, you still didn't contribute anything. Finally, my vote can't possibly be OMGUS when you didn't vote me to begin with. You're not pressuring me, you're not asking me questions, you're not doing anything, actually. OMGUS="oh my god you suck (for voting for me)" and I don't see how my vote can be OMGUS when you never voted me! | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
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