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Lord of the Rings Mafia

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 11 2011 18:48 GMT
#5
/in
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 17 2011 07:26 GMT
#245
The OP also indicates that there is at least one role capable of stealing the ring, likely gollum, and possibly other items, so you should under no circumstances claim that you have the ring, especially now that we know passing it is a night action. It's unclear which action takes priority, stealing or passing the ring, and curu isn't willing to elaborate.

Even if you are about to be lynched and you have the ring, I can't really come up with a compelling reason to claim that you have it, except perhaps if the ring has powers that can be used in a pro town fashion and you can demonstrate that you've done so, thus possibly saving us from mislynch. If you get lynched, it will just narrow down the list of potential owners,.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 17 2011 07:40 GMT
#247
wbg you are being completely worthless, even detrimental to town. Are you gollum by any chance? Seems to fit better than scum, as I don't think your scum play can be this bad.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 17 2011 07:52 GMT
#249
Even if you really are gollum, you are going to get vigied/lynched if you keep that up. No player gets an exemption from scum hunting.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 17 2011 10:29 GMT
#257
WBG what is your win con
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 17 2011 14:16 GMT
#270
On September 17 2011 23:04 Pyo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 17 2011 14:48 Jackal58 wrote:
On September 17 2011 14:42 GreYMisT wrote:
On September 17 2011 14:39 Jackal58 wrote:
On September 17 2011 14:38 wherebugsgo wrote:
On September 17 2011 14:35 Jackal58 wrote:
On September 17 2011 14:30 wherebugsgo wrote:
On September 17 2011 14:23 Jackal58 wrote:
On September 17 2011 13:58 wherebugsgo wrote:
I want the ring.

I'm sure several people want the ring.


none as much as me.

Sauron? Is that you?


Yes. I am Sauron.

And what compelling reason do we have to allow Sauron to survive?


Promises of power and land I would imagine.

pfffff
I already have 10 acres with electricity.


Does anyone else find this whole exchange to be really suspicious?

Jackal is currently on top of my suspicion list, mostly due to being around last night while not saying anything useful at all. However, I don't think the above looks like a conversation between scum buddies. WBG's play makes very little sense regardless of his alignment, though a third party makes most sense.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 17 2011 15:02 GMT
#275
There are no VIs according to Curu. We'll see what he claims about his alignment and win con when he shows up
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 17 2011 15:05 GMT
#277
I asked him, feel free to do the same. I ask a lot of questions so pretty pointless to spam them in the thread
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 17 2011 15:12 GMT
#279
When I woke up today and read wbgs posts and considered the possibilities. What kind of question is that anyway?
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 17 2011 16:14 GMT
#292
It's not even a contradiction considering the first quote is about the best methods for generating discussion while the second is about lynching.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 17 2011 17:33 GMT
#305
On September 18 2011 02:24 iGrok wrote:
Greymist's thing is not something to lynch for, but it is something to remember in the future. But he is someone to keep an eye on.
I think whoever said WBG is probably gollum with a post restriction is right.
But Drazerk has my biggest suspicions today, and lynching him will also give us the most information so far, both about greymist and the others who jumped on him. So,
##Vote Drazerk

Can you elaborate on these "suspicions" and also why lynching him would give us information regarding greymist and the people who voted for him? If drazerk flips scum, what does it tell you? And if he flips town?
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 17 2011 17:44 GMT
#312
On September 18 2011 02:40 Jackal58 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 18 2011 02:39 Jackal58 wrote:
And it they're both townies what does that tell us?

That was to Heist. His proposal is so pro mafia it's not even funny.

I disagree; it's pretty much always better to have two lynch wagons. He wasn't proposing a chain lynch and even if both wagons turn out to be town, it forces scum to voice their opinion on both candidates, thus producing more information for later analysis.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 17 2011 20:17 GMT
#333
WBG, no that is not an obvious question. What is your win con? Just obtaining the ring? What happens if you get it? The only reason for us to keep you alive is if you are going to keep scum hunting and your win con isn't incompatible with ours.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 17 2011 20:20 GMT
#335
What happens to you and the ring?
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 17 2011 21:15 GMT
#346
WBG, I'm sorry but "I'm Gollum, give me the ring; I won't tell you why but by not complying you are only hurting yourself" is a hilariously unconvincing proposition, given LOTR lore and our own win con. You are actively working against your alleged win con by not being forthcoming regarding your objectives, the benefits for town and by being so antagonistic about this.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 18 2011 08:37 GMT
#410
Currently I'd like to lynch someone who has clearly been around and posted some while not saying anything worthwhile. I'm not particularly interested in going after newer players for "bad logic", "bad plans" or perceived "contradictions" as they say almost nothing about their alignment when I can't tell whether I should expect better from them. Moreover I'd expect the scum team to consist of ~4 veterans and ~2 newer players, again making it more worthwhile to lynch a veteran. The obvious downside is that veterans tend to post more and as the pool of veterans, it gets easier to spot the ones who shouldn't still be alive later on. Regardless, the following people fit the above criteria:

Jackal, GGQ, possibly iGrok

In addition, Vain's posts thus far have been so devoid of content that he looks like a decent alternative, despite not exactly being a veteran. Drazerk apologizing for going away for a few hours looks somewhat off too, given that his activity hasn't exactly been very high anyway.

Unfortunately a bunch of veterans are getting away with posting nothing at all (Jeejee/Sandroba/Palmar), but at least the latter two have an excuse due to not being around and I'm willing to ignore jeejee on day 1 due to his recent game history.

Lynching WBG is a waste of time unless we've a reason to believe he has KP or that he could be a scum fake claiming. The former is unlikely given the OP specifically implies that there are roles with the ability to steal items and having both abilities might be redundant if we believe his win con is simply to obtain the ring. Further, it's rather unlikely a SK would open claim day 1 as we would obviously get suspicious if night KP/flavor indicates that there is a SK. As for the possibility of him being scum, the claim again makes no sense as Gollum is a very likely character to be present in the game and having gollum as a scum safe claim seems unfair. I suppose it's possible for gollum to be scum aligned rather than a neutral party, but again it makes no sense to claim as it still makes him a likely vig target.

##vote Jackal
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 18 2011 09:00 GMT
#412
On September 18 2011 17:41 wherebugsgo wrote:
Can you explain, syllogism, why you prefer Jackal over GGQ or iGrok?

For those who care, Jackal's filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=264699&user=124528

Basically because I'm more familiar with his play and GGQ has had a tendency to be inactivate as town in the few games I've played with him, I recall. However, they are all good candidates, and I had to pick one.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 18 2011 20:05 GMT
#513
On September 19 2011 04:23 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 18 2011 17:37 syllogism wrote:
Currently I'd like to lynch someone who has clearly been around and posted some while not saying anything worthwhile. I'm not particularly interested in going after newer players for "bad logic", "bad plans" or perceived "contradictions" as they say almost nothing about their alignment when I can't tell whether I should expect better from them. Moreover I'd expect the scum team to consist of ~4 veterans and ~2 newer players, again making it more worthwhile to lynch a veteran. The obvious downside is that veterans tend to post more and as the pool of veterans, it gets easier to spot the ones who shouldn't still be alive later on. Regardless, the following people fit the above criteria:

Jackal, GGQ, possibly iGrok

In addition, Vain's posts thus far have been so devoid of content that he looks like a decent alternative, despite not exactly being a veteran. Drazerk apologizing for going away for a few hours looks somewhat off too, given that his activity hasn't exactly been very high anyway.

Unfortunately a bunch of veterans are getting away with posting nothing at all (Jeejee/Sandroba/Palmar), but at least the latter two have an excuse due to not being around and I'm willing to ignore jeejee on day 1 due to his recent game history.

Lynching WBG is a waste of time unless we've a reason to believe he has KP or that he could be a scum fake claiming. The former is unlikely given the OP specifically implies that there are roles with the ability to steal items and having both abilities might be redundant if we believe his win con is simply to obtain the ring. Further, it's rather unlikely a SK would open claim day 1 as we would obviously get suspicious if night KP/flavor indicates that there is a SK. As for the possibility of him being scum, the claim again makes no sense as Gollum is a very likely character to be present in the game and having gollum as a scum safe claim seems unfair. I suppose it's possible for gollum to be scum aligned rather than a neutral party, but again it makes no sense to claim as it still makes him a likely vig target.

##vote Jackal

Haha, this looks so scummy to me. Instead of looking for people who are acting scummy, you want to try to lynch people based on usefulness. This isn't too bad in itself, but then instead of giving concrete examples for each of the players you listed, you bring up 5 other players and give reasons why they're good lynch targets as well (But not as good as the first three). Then you spend the latter half of your post talking about WBG instead of the 8 lynch targets you brought up.

So, instead of focusing on one player who is scummy, you bring up 3 targets, give no specific reasons for voting any of them, and then add 5 other targets to that pile as well, before what looks like just a random vote among them. Talk about spreading out focus.

FOS Syllogism

Also, while I'm at it, Syllo, what do you think of prplhz?

I don't find any of the behaviour I noted scummy by itself, because most players on TL tend to be illogical. There are some players I hold to a higher standards, and indeed I find them easier to read. Contradictions can be scummy, but can often be attributed to poor logic by either reader or the author. Only four of the people I listed in my post were presented as lynch candidates, and the three names were clearly highlighted as the ones I'd focus on today. Twisting words if scummy behaviour, so either you misread or have an agenda; jeejee/palmar/sandroba were noted for their complete lack of thread presence and correctly so. Do you disagree? I have never seen you FoS someone and then vote for someone else, which is also curious. However, your scum play seems blander than this so perhaps it's just that I haven't seen you play town enough.

I found prplhz fairly suspicious, quite similar to Vain, as his early posts were complete fluff, but his case against Dr.H seemed genuine, even if I disagree with most of the content. If you haven't noticed, I'm nowadays quite against lynching newer players unless the case amounts to something other than "he isn't making sense". Non-contributing veterans are generally better targets. The connection you attempt to draw between me and WBG is pretty hilarious, given I'm the one who got him to claim third party and his alleged win con, which clearly made him a lynch candidate and a very likely eventual vig target.

Do you think switching vote is scummy behaviour? Is it scummier than throwing your vote away when it becomes clear your candidate of choice isn't going to get lynched? What is the scum motivation for switching, unless WBG is scum?
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 18 2011 20:09 GMT
#518
And yes, Erandorr is a solid candidate as far as newer players go
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 18 2011 20:34 GMT
#529
On September 19 2011 05:29 Radfield wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 19 2011 05:05 Vain wrote:
On September 19 2011 04:48 Radfield wrote:
Errandor is a fantastic Day 1 vote. Lets break down what we're looking for:

1. Low-Mid range activity
2. Vote Contradictions
3. Paragraphy vote posts with BS reasoning
4. 'Contribution' posts that say nothing

+ Show Spoiler +
Lol I think Wbg is just trying to be palmar right now (which is a pretty fucking stupid idea)

If there are post restrictions I would be really surprised because Curu really hates those things . But then he might just take it out on us or do it for some sort of balance reasons so its pure speculation.


First post details that WBG is probably just trolling, and while stupid, isn't really worth much attention. Frankly I agree, but whoops with his second real post Errandor is now willing to vote out WBG:

+ Show Spoiler +
I want Wbg out of this.
If he is town aligned then hes just shitting up the thread and then doing some analysis which doesnt help us because we have to spend so much time dealing with all his other crap. If he is anything else we want him dead anyway so I am totally cool with that.
And I really cant imagine that he has a post restriction that makes him post like a complete idiot half of the time .
## Vote Wbg


We've gone from WBG trolling to now being worthy of getting lynched day 1. This is the most BS post in the thread right now. First we have the contradiction. Second we have the justification that even if he is town, he's worth getting rid of. NOPE. I realize that's not precisely what's been written, but that is absolutely the intent. Third, this is a complete and utter bandwagon. WBG picks up a couple votes, and Erandorr slides into the scene. Fourth you add in a bit of extra post restriction business which does nothing but cut him down. This is not why we vote! This entire post is showing that Errandor justification for voting WBG is not in fact that he's scum, but rather a bad townie who deserves to die.

An hour and a half later, Errandor posts this:

"Okay I read the whole thread now."

Whoops scum slip. Why are you voting for a player AND THEN reading the thread? Not how townies play.

This is all followed by a bunch more suspicion on WBG, but no actual points against him:

+ Show Spoiler +
I forgot to vote earlier but lets just get wbg out of the game, I feel really uncomfortably by what he was doing.


The reason I want you out is that you clearly have an agenda other than catching scum. That just makes me uncomfortable.


You now seem to start contributing, but still will not tell us why you behave the way you do. you dont ask for the ring in every post, so its clearly not that, and just trolled at the start and messed up the thread. I agree with most of your targets, actually, but could you just go back to xliv and compare your behaviour now to that of palmar and then remember how that turned out?


To paraphrase: "You're actually playing good now, but you trolled before. You're targets are all good, but your behaviour is bad"

It's hard to justify killing townies when you're scum isn't it?

Errandor is very scummy, and likely the best vote we'll get:

##Vote: Erandorr


Well at least this looks better than than the 3 other cases. I didn't even know he posted that much>.> I will be switching votes due to my first suspicion only being based on a feeling. Though i'll be weary of dr. H


I don't necessarily disagree on Dr H, but no matter what his alignment he'll be active. Time will tell if he's scum or not.


Since you're here DocH, what are you're thoughts on Errandor. Do you still find WBG suspicious despite the upswing in his posting?

Show nested quote +
On September 19 2011 05:09 syllogism wrote:
And yes, Erandorr is a solid candidate as far as newer players go


Solid enough for you to vote for him?

I'm considering it right now, based on the likely alternatives. Due to time zone constraints I'll be off within 30 minutes, so I won't be able to react based on how voting develops. Given that I don't find WBG and prplhz to be good lynches, I'll likely switch before I'm off. I don't think Jackal has done anything to make him look townier since my vote, however.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 18 2011 20:51 GMT
#534
I don't think Jackal lynch is happening, and at least he is now around posting his thoughts. Jackal if you are town you need to stop fixating on WBG as lynching is generally a bad method for disposing third parties when they aren't bullet proof. If he is a third party he could of course be lying about a number of things, but his behaviour so far makes slightly more sense in the context of him being a role who only has to find the ring.

##unvote
##vote Erandorr
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 19 2011 05:07 GMT
#706
On September 19 2011 12:04 sandroba wrote:
Okay, I'm done with my first read through the thread. Syllo why did you vote errandor man? This goes against everything you said previously and is not on par with the way you think at all? Also why did you jump on jackal and GGQ instead of iGrok?

Because at the time of voting it looked like it was going to be either wbg/prplhz or erandorr, so I picked the one I thought had the best chance of flipping scum. I already explained why I "chose" (more like nearly RNGed because they all looked the same at the time) jackal; I've played with him more and he was also contributing more in some other active games.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 19 2011 12:44 GMT
#713
On September 18 2011 09:57 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
No, I'm voting for WBG because I have no strong scum read and his play is the most anti-town. If I had to guess his role it's a neutral serial killer and I'd rather day 1 lynch an SK than what will probably be a town. I also never said WBG isn't scum. It's day 1.

So far our scum cases boil down to "your plan was stupid" "you didn't post enough" and "idk you voted for me and you didn't explain it well."

If I get a strong scum read then I'll move my vote. My read on WBG is either scum or SK. Either way, he's a detriment to town and I'm pretty sure he is not a pro-town role. I feel more comfortable voting for a player that I'm about 75% sure is a non-town player than a player I'm 15% sure might be scum.

My vote for greymist was really just a placeholder to get him talking. That's pretty standard stuff.

That's it. I'm not concerned with defending myself, I'm doing what I feel is right. WBG has been posting a little bit more constructively and at the very least, if he is a bad townie, he's learning that you can't shit post and troll without getting heat. There are still 24 hours left but so far all of the "scum" cases I've seen have been incredibly weak and I don't know why people seem to think it's impossible WBG is scum in the first place. Because he's too reckless? I've seen worse.

On September 19 2011 05:37 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I think it's quite probable Errandor is scum and misunderstands my reasons for voting for WBG and is trying to parrot/hide behind my bandwagon. However, if I have to switch my vote I personally get a worse feeling from Supersoft and chaos13 did a pretty good job of pointing out that very strange inconsistency.

On September 19 2011 07:50 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I'm keeping my vote on WBG out of principle because I am sure he is either SK or Mafia. The fact that no one is even exploring the possibility that he is scum says volumes to me. If he were, in fact mafia, it's a fitting enough to say "nah hes obv just 3rd party he can't be scum if yoou vote for him youre scum becasue hes not scum" but we don't know what alignment anyone is only mafia know that :-)

I can't quite reconcile these statements with the fact you left your vote on WBG. Care to clarify? Did you just became more certain about WBG being scum/mafia somewhere along the way? Why? What do you think about the possibility of WBG being a third party who isn't a serial killer?
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 19 2011 17:50 GMT
#717
Cyber_Cheese who do you think is scummy? Your activity has been very low and your only post that could be characterized as a contribution is a list post in which you don't really find anyone scummy, except sort of the person you are voting based on rather flimsy reasoning.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 19 2011 18:04 GMT
#723
It's night and you were only asked to clarify something. Saying that you are about to be bandwagoned seems like an overreaction to me, no? Tunnelling WBG as mafia makes sense because, assuming that he is a third party, you don't really get into trouble for it and you can do it with some real conviction given that you don't have to make up reasons for finding him scummy.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 20 2011 06:40 GMT
#846
The night kill targets are pretty interesting especially in the light of Dr.H/Sauron having an unblockable attack. I suppose saving it for later may make sense, but on the other hand people were already suspicious of him last night. Radfield mostly ignored DrH, despite his quite scummy posts regarding his voting process.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 20 2011 14:11 GMT
#870
Palmar please give me a reason to believe you are town besides your resurrection mafia-esque apathy . It will do for now, but you've to start posting. And lol at you claiming that you would have been pushing for DrH if you had cared enough.

Why do you think Radfield is town, given that Erandorr flipped town and based on his post earlier today he was going to go for two additional town lynches (chaos13 and me)? And now he finds his own wagon scummy, even me despite specifically wanting me to switch. Speaking of the lynch, it was still better than WBG/prplplz lynches. I may be tunneling due to the night kills making very little sense (saurun's ability allowed them to kill whoever they wanted), because he IS contributing more than anyone really. I'll have to find one of his scum games to see what his scum play looks like. Anything more recent than Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Mafia?
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 20 2011 14:24 GMT
#876
The issue with chaoser being scum is that it's very unlikely that WBG was a mafia hit, so if they have the standard 3 kp, there is one KP missing and no one else has claimed a hit. I suppose it's possible mafia hit SK (the real gollum? would make sense for him to kill wbg I suppose and the flavor would fit) and thus he was free to claim the hit, but it's more likely that he really was hit. No way they double stacked prplhz or wiggles.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 20 2011 14:24 GMT
#877
On September 20 2011 23:21 Palmar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 23:11 syllogism wrote:
Palmar please give me a reason to believe you are town besides your resurrection mafia-esque apathy . It will do for now, but you've to start posting. And lol at you claiming that you would have been pushing for DrH if you had cared enough.

Why do you think Radfield is town, given that Erandorr flipped town and based on his post earlier today he was going to go for two additional town lynches (chaos13 and me)? And now he finds his own wagon scummy, even me despite specifically wanting me to switch. Speaking of the lynch, it was still better than WBG/prplplz lynches. I may be tunneling due to the night kills making very little sense (saurun's ability allowed them to kill whoever they wanted), because he IS contributing more than anyone really. I'll have to find one of his scum games to see what his scum play looks like. Anything more recent than Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Mafia?


look no further than close casket mafia.

Yes, but that was a no flip game so I was hoping something more standard
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 20 2011 14:40 GMT
#886
On September 20 2011 23:32 kitaman27 wrote:
Try Salem. Do you intend to push Radfield/Palmar or anyone else within the next few hours?

Unlikely as I prefer to spend the first 24 hours discussing and despite being somewhat suspicious of Radfield, I think it's more optimal to wait at least until day 3 given his activity and him being a likely NK target if he is town aligned. I don't like how Palmar is playing, but it's more due to his apathy and in fact he is so far looking more like his town play in swedish house mafia/resurrection/post day 1 XLIV, than his typical scum play.

I agree with sandroba's list though, so that's definitely where my focus will be.

syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 20 2011 14:43 GMT
#888
On September 20 2011 23:38 kitaman27 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 23:24 syllogism wrote:
The issue with chaoser being scum is that it's very unlikely that WBG was a mafia hit, so if they have the standard 3 kp, there is one KP missing and no one else has claimed a hit. I suppose it's possible mafia hit SK (the real gollum? would make sense for him to kill wbg I suppose and the flavor would fit) and thus he was free to claim the hit, but it's more likely that he really was hit. No way they double stacked prplhz or wiggles.


Also, why is it very unlikely that WBG was a mafia hit?

Why would they hit WBG? From mafia perspective he was either a possibly bullet proof third party or a lying town, and either way a likely vig target or a lynch candidate. Moreover, look at the list of players in the game and try to come up with a scum team that would prioritize wbg, especially given the other aforementioned factors.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 20 2011 15:00 GMT
#894
On September 18 2011 08:46 iGrok wrote:
Theres no way he would have a ring-stealing ability with no way to search for it. Think about that

This is interesting considering Sauron flipped and has such an ability. Why would someone who can just steal the ring first check for it? Or maybe you assumed he could do two night actions?
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 20 2011 15:44 GMT
#905
On September 21 2011 00:19 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Syllo, what are your thought about sandroba? Do you think he is 100% town or can you even consider otherwise. If so, why?

I'm leaning town so far, mostly due to him agreeing with me a lot and also based on the night kill selection. While it's possible that he is scum and simply didn't give his input or others disagreed, but I'm still leaning on towards the kills pointing toward a townie sandroba.

As for whom I would lynch on sandroba's list, my current choice would be iGrok or GGQ. Both have done absolutely nothing so far and the igrok's post I highlighted above could be a slip due to him knowing that such an ability is present in the game. GGQ voted iGrok yesterday, but igrok lynch was never going to happen and he likes throwing away his vote as scum, though that's based on a very small sample size. Jackal is the close third, but that might change if he doesn't today give his opinion on ANYTHING besides WBG. I also notice that he asked to be replaced out, not sure what to make of that.

Original name sort of found igrok/drh scummy today, though then proceeded to vote pyo instead. Still, giving him some townie points for that so I don't think he is a good target today.


syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 20 2011 16:36 GMT
#909
I don't understand what's going on with this cipher. Assuming the intention isn't just to mislead, there is no reason to voluntarily post an anonymous message in code, especially something that short. Thus if we assume the source of the message is a townie, it would have to be some sort of information role result. If that is the case, obviously the role has to have a posting restriction that prohibits him from talking about it, or perhaps simply doesn't know how to solve it either. The message structure and word length indicates the message could say [player X] is [alignment]. However, the first word is 6 letters long and none of the names match if it's a substitution cipher. Similarly replacing the last four letters with TOWN or SCUM doesn't get you anywhere, as doesn't replacing the two letter word with 'is'.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 20 2011 16:54 GMT
#913
On September 21 2011 01:53 Jackal58 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2011 01:36 syllogism wrote:
I don't understand what's going on with this cipher. Assuming the intention isn't just to mislead, there is no reason to voluntarily post an anonymous message in code, especially something that short. Thus if we assume the source of the message is a townie, it would have to be some sort of information role result. If that is the case, obviously the role has to have a posting restriction that prohibits him from talking about it, or perhaps simply doesn't know how to solve it either. The message structure and word length indicates the message could say [player X] is [alignment]. However, the first word is 6 letters long and none of the names match if it's a substitution cipher. Similarly replacing the last four letters with TOWN or SCUM doesn't get you anywhere, as doesn't replacing the two letter word with 'is'.

You're assuming each word uses the same substitution pattern. Doesn't have to be that way. It could be Boolean or a Fibonacci progression.

I realize that, but I don't really have the tools or know-how to know where to begin if that's the case. Also it can't be too complicated given that's it's something we should reasonable be able to solve.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 20 2011 18:54 GMT
#922
Well this is interesting

I just got shot, as in a day vig hit me
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 20 2011 19:00 GMT
#924
So anyone willing to claim the hit?
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 20 2011 19:20 GMT
#929
I don't quite understand why I would be scum day vig target over, say, radfield. Any thoughts radfield?
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 20 2011 19:23 GMT
#932
On September 21 2011 04:22 Archon_Toilet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2011 04:20 syllogism wrote:
I don't quite understand why I would be scum day vig target over, say, radfield. Any thoughts radfield?

You keep saying you shot. If you were shot how did you survive? Claiming veteran?

I got shot and I survived, that's as much as you need to know
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 20 2011 20:07 GMT
#933
I'm off, iGrok you better have defended yourself by the time I come back tomorrow. Perhaps even claim. I'd also like to hear more from the other candidates, and sandroba/palmar.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 21 2011 05:04 GMT
#1000
These modkills are ruining the game basically
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 21 2011 05:07 GMT
#1001
igrok you are obviously not getting the ring as even if we believed your claim and your pledge to assist us, the OP suggests there are roles that can steal the ring from you regardless of you being bulletproof
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 21 2011 05:09 GMT
#1002
Also I've a hard time believing that there is a survivor with an unblockable night kill or are you saying it only works on gandalf?
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 21 2011 05:09 GMT
#1003
Oh it's one shot, nevermind
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 21 2011 05:14 GMT
#1005
A "survivor" role whose only goal is to kill the most powerful townie and can then still win with mafia seems rather unfair unless this is reflected in mafia numbers
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 21 2011 05:18 GMT
#1006
What is your kill flavor
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 21 2011 05:28 GMT
#1010
Hey igrok i just realized that my win con is to kill all Evil. Would you characterize Balrog evil?
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 21 2011 05:37 GMT
#1014
Sandroba are you ignoring my observation above regarding our win con? Would there really be a survivor role in the game that is clearly Evil when our win con is to defeat all Evil
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 21 2011 05:39 GMT
#1015
igrok it sure is taking long to post that pm, you are dangerously close to being dead
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 21 2011 05:46 GMT
#1019
well iGrok I don't think I can allow Evil to exist in Middle Earth

##cleave iGrok

I'm going to be extremely displeased with the setup if a clearly evil creature flips neutral when our win con says to purge all evil
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 21 2011 06:26 GMT
#1024
Unless you can survive a hit, yes
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 21 2011 06:32 GMT
#1026
Either he is lying scum or a "neutral" third party whose win con involves killing a townie. Our win con is to purge all evil and it doesn't get more much more evil than a balrog

Either way if he doesn't flip mafia, curu really messed up
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 21 2011 06:35 GMT
#1029
On September 21 2011 15:33 iGrok wrote:
Apparently I can.

So, your medic is fucking dumb.

Though after the game ends I'm going to chew you out for playing dumb, this is actually hilarious

Calling bullshit on the medic, so you are still lying scum or a bulletproof SK and if you don't see how my above logic makes perfect sense, that just makes you even scummier
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 21 2011 06:36 GMT
#1030
##vote igrok
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 21 2011 06:49 GMT
#1032
Survivors aren't always vets and your claim made no sense at all in the context of a survivor. Why would survivor's win con involve killing a townie? Why is your role clearly evil and our win con is to kill evil? Why are you specifically told what happens if you obtain the ring considering it has nothing to do with your win con? If you can already survive a shot, why does it make you bullet proof?
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 21 2011 06:52 GMT
#1033
Plus now you are even lying about the medic, instead of just saying that you are a survivor who can survive a bullet. You clearly know how you survived
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 21 2011 07:26 GMT
#1036
Recap:

After I had vigged you:
"This had better be a fucking joke."
"was that supposed to do something syllogism?"

And now later:
"I was told I took a hit right after you used cleave."

I suppose you are more likely to be SK by this point, which is unfortunate because I'd rather lynch mafia.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 21 2011 08:05 GMT
#1037
Also I'm changing my mind about Sandroba. I don't know why he assumed that a survivor would have a safe claim and he isn't really pushing his lynches and his posting seems blander than usual. He has also made some weird leaps of logic, for instance:

Since jeejee is acusing jackal, but haven't said shit I'll keep him there. I have a funny feeling that if jackal is town jeejee is mafia planting the seed so someone else can make a full blown case and get the blame

People had been pushing Jackal since day 1, but sandroba interprets Jeejee's day 2 vote as scum wanting to subtly get a wagon started and thus "avoiding blame". This doesn't particularly sound like townie sandroba logic. The language is a bit awkward too, specifically the usage of "funny feeling"
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 21 2011 08:29 GMT
#1039
On September 21 2011 17:22 Palmar wrote:
rofl, die scum die

Are you going to do anything useful all game?
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 21 2011 11:17 GMT
#1049
But does Balrog the SK make sense to you? Balrog the mafia seems more realistic and I don't know why he would voluntarily claim balrog instead of his real role (that is, he would then be SK with a more fitting character). He was going to get lynched unless his claim was very good and if this claim buys him that one day, it's a success. He could have a vital scum role that he can use tonight, though I'm not sure how I could reconcile that with him surviving a shot.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 21 2011 11:20 GMT
#1050
EBWOP: that wants to use his ability tonight*
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 21 2011 12:09 GMT
#1053
Reading the thread helps, as apparently you missed the part where he claimed BALROG
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 21 2011 12:17 GMT
#1057
On September 21 2011 21:15 Drazerk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2011 21:09 syllogism wrote:
Reading the thread helps, as apparently you missed the part where he claimed BALROG


Mafia was given safe claims it makes no sense for them to use one everyone would instantly believe is scum / third party.

So you are saying it makes more sense for town to claim Balrog and lie about everything?
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 21 2011 12:40 GMT
#1061
You should probably retire from mafia if you really believe he could be a townie doing it for fun at this point. You don't even need his claim to see he isn't playing like a townie would
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 21 2011 15:51 GMT
#1085
He already took a hit and didn't die
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 21 2011 16:01 GMT
#1089
I could tell you and you would believe me, but it wouldn't make the issue of igrok any clearer and could only help mafia. The only reason to reveal any information about my role would be if I'm in danger of being lynched or vigied, which I'm not.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 21 2011 16:06 GMT
#1090
On September 22 2011 01:00 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 22 2011 00:58 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
On September 22 2011 00:51 syllogism wrote:
He already took a hit and didn't die


And so did you apparently.
How?


Also I'm still looking for an answer from back when I asked your opinion on Palmar.

It still looks more like his recent apathetic town play than his scum play, but at the same time if this is how he plays town these days, I'll be highly disappointed. Just stop joining games if you don't care or don't have time. If I don't take meta into account, he is obviously isn't looking townish at all.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 21 2011 16:14 GMT
#1095
I agree, but then again we had kitaman claiming Pacifist Ocean and Wiggles Time Traveller as scum in WaW2. Sure, it was a less serious game but mistakes happen. I would be more inclined to let igrok live if he actually was a SK who is willing to kill at our command, but he seems reluctant to even do that.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 21 2011 18:30 GMT
#1142
Why would you protect igrok? Even for you that would be unbelievably stupid
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 21 2011 18:31 GMT
#1143
Also why are you role claiming medic to save a third party? Huh?
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 21 2011 18:33 GMT
#1150
right, drazerk the scum hunter extraordinaire was going to be mafia target

Are you really this awful?
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 21 2011 18:35 GMT
#1153
Now explain why you protected igrok
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 21 2011 18:36 GMT
#1156
Oh okay, another "I'm just really awful" justification
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 21 2011 18:37 GMT
#1158
On September 22 2011 03:36 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 22 2011 03:30 syllogism wrote:
Why would you protect igrok? Even for you that would be unbelievably stupid


Says the person who chose to day vig him the day he revealed.
You should have waited for the next day at least, such that any medics could change target

If there was a medic on iGrok, this raises more questions on the other two that 'survived hits'

You've already repeatedly established that you are really daft, so I'm not even going to bother explaining the obvious to you
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 21 2011 18:40 GMT
#1163
Drazerk and now please slowly explain what you protecting igrok says about his alignment
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 21 2011 18:43 GMT
#1166
On September 22 2011 03:42 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 22 2011 03:40 syllogism wrote:
Drazerk and now please slowly explain what you protecting igrok says about his alignment


I can't speak for him, but iIt's not about his alignment, it's about the alignment of the people pushing his lynch that I care about.

I somewhat agree, but the thing is he has been beyond saving for quite a while now and bussing is the norm in TL mafia
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 21 2011 18:52 GMT
#1177
Yes jcarlsoniv, you haven't had any opinions whole game long really
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 21 2011 19:05 GMT
#1188
He is still claiming to be Balrog the Neutral Survivor who had to kill a townie (wait woops he doesn't even have to personally kill him despite having abilities specifically designed for it!) before he wins and then he can win with either alignment! And our win con is to purge all Evil so if Balrog isn't evil, well Curu really messed up
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 22 2011 04:36 GMT
#1301
Radfield you are really awful or scum, either way yawn
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 22 2011 04:48 GMT
#1302
"benign neutral" balrog, yep
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 22 2011 04:57 GMT
#1304
What is "everything else" that adds up?
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 22 2011 05:07 GMT
#1306
That's not the only argument, the role itself doesn't make sense. Neutral survivors don't have to kill townies to win and he doesn't even have to do that personally, making it even more nonsensical. Why does his role allegedly tell what happens if gets the ring when the ring has nothing to do with his role, he has no means of obtaining it besides his one shot which is supposed to be used on gandalf? Why didn't Sauron's role description say what happens if he gets the ring, when he even has an ability that allows him to search for it?
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 22 2011 05:09 GMT
#1307
Sure, it's possible Curu made a really dumb role, but as with everything else in mafia, one thing is more likely than the other
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 22 2011 05:12 GMT
#1308
And are you seriously saying his level of activity, ie lurking and being worthless, makes him a survivor rather than mafia/sk?
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 22 2011 05:19 GMT
#1310
When you have to resort to speculating that maybe Sauron doesn't personally really want the ring, but is rather just assisting one of his henchmen to find it, it's perhaps better to just concede the argument
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 22 2011 05:27 GMT
#1312
No, what I'm saying is that no role in the game is told what the ring does, until the ring is given to them or they obtain it by other means. Especially not a role that has absolutely nothing to do with the ring.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 22 2011 05:33 GMT
#1313
Heist by the way remember when you argued in WaW2 that The Pacifist Ocean was a legit claim? Good times
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 22 2011 06:41 GMT
#1316
The answer is likely "no one" and I've no reason to answer the question given that I've no idea what you are going to do with this information. If you are miraculously a third party who isn't SK and truly wanted to help town, you wouldn't need me to answer that question. You said I don't have good judgment and then ask me to make such a decision for you? If the intention is to have this other person to unilaterally decide for you whom to shoot with your alleged ability, clearly you don't want to take responsibility if the target flips town.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 22 2011 11:06 GMT
#1325
Drazerk so how did you "know" that posting restrictions are in place? I'm still pondering as to how stupid I am willing a townie to be. If it was anyone but you, I'd be more inclined to believe that you are a scum medic, but the whole mess is such a bad move from scum perspective too.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 22 2011 11:11 GMT
#1327
Hey radfield at least that's better than townie hunting, which you have been doing so far. We had a guaranteed non-town who was clearly lying and passed lynching him purely based on him maybe not lying about some things ?! It's one thing to not lynch a guaranteed third party who we have no reason to believe is lying, and not lynching someone like igrok. Purely statistically it would have been optimal to lynch igrok over almost any player in the game.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 22 2011 11:25 GMT
#1328
Sandroba why are you not putting any effort into the game? Is it because you are scum/third party? Why did you flip flop about GGQ without stating your reasons? You wanted to keep the lynch between igrok and jackal and then suddenly wanted igrok to shoot GGQ?
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 22 2011 11:48 GMT
#1329
And regarding igrok, it's hardly scum hunting via flavor and roles given that we were going to lynch him BEFORE his ridiculous claim. It's absurd to suggest him lying somehow made him worse lynch.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 22 2011 14:47 GMT
#1343
So predictably igrok is completely worthless at least if we pick the target for him, assuming scum has a roleblocker
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 22 2011 16:09 GMT
#1360
lol
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 22 2011 17:09 GMT
#1374
That makes sense actually
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 22 2011 17:22 GMT
#1380
On September 23 2011 02:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2011 02:09 syllogism wrote:
That makes sense actually


What makes sense? Drazerk?

And do you care to answer my question i stated before?

Drazerk does yes

And you are right about sandroba sort of being consistent as jeejee was modkilled (before that he found him scummy, so clearly he would have wanted to lynch/vig him next). Anyway, this still isn't townie sandroba play unless he is just extremely busy. If he was town he would by now be certain that I'm also town and he enjoys playing town with me, which likely would motivate him to post more. Extremely unconvincing reasoning for someone who doesn't know us, I admit.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 22 2011 17:35 GMT
#1382
Also I've been wondering about the hidden day vig, scum night kp and how medics appear to work. It would be an interesting mechanic if scum had only 2 night KP but they had a role that can day vig every day. Then it also makes sense for medic protection to last for the whole cycle, that is until day is over.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 22 2011 17:38 GMT
#1385
If my speculation above is correct, take a second look at night 1 hits and the fact chaoser "survived" a hit. Obviously this night and tomorrow will provide more information.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 22 2011 17:44 GMT
#1388
On September 23 2011 02:43 kitaman27 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2011 02:08 Drazerk wrote:
Also as for the posting restriction... lets just say I had one and now I don't.


Arwen, the Evenstar has a post restriction? Could you clarify what made it go away?

I doubt he can talk about the specifics of his PR, but it's pretty likely that his protection only lasted from night 1 until day 2 ended, that is until the lynch
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 22 2011 17:45 GMT
#1389
Which is also then when his PR ended
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 22 2011 17:53 GMT
#1393
It's virtually guaranteed that there are PRs present in the game given how curu answered the question regarding them (he didn't want to comment, but he did reveal that there are no village idiots). Drazerk's apparent PR isn't intrusive and can be figured out. Drazerk hinted that he had a PR on day 1, so unless it's a really elaborate plan with set forth on day 1, I'm willing to believe it.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 22 2011 17:53 GMT
#1394
On September 23 2011 02:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
PR on a medic? How the fuck that makes sense?

There have been a few games where medics have to defend the person they protect also in the thread
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 24 2011 23:00 GMT
#1745
So turns out the benign neutral friendly neighborhood survivor Balrog, a creature of pure evil, who kept lying did NOT have town's best interests in mind. Who knew
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 28 2011 04:52 GMT
#2526
Hahahahahahha
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 30 2011 21:32 GMT
#2722
As far as I'm concerned you are all trolling
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
October 06 2011 23:01 GMT
#3104
Hohohohoho
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
October 10 2011 05:08 GMT
#3184
So Heist are you ever going to learn your lesson
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
October 10 2011 05:29 GMT
#3186
He believes every single claim, no matter how outlandish and then considers the claimer a confirmed townie basically
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
October 10 2011 06:17 GMT
#3192
By the time chaoser actually started lynching scum, there were 2 basically confirmed townies, which left him with 3 scum among 4 scum candidates, making it rather trivial. Sorry can't give him that much credit considering he voted to lynch ON over Kita; don't even care what his alignment was at the time.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-10 06:26:28
October 10 2011 06:25 GMT
#3194
On October 10 2011 15:23 Mig wrote:
Ok but do you have another candidate for town MVP? Even with the people practically confirmed pretty sure town would have lost without him.

No, I definitely agree with him being the MVP, although if Sandroba hadn't died and had actually posted his reads, he would be more deserving
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
October 10 2011 14:34 GMT
#3205
It was one of the safe scum fake claims
Normal
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