Some Mafia Game

On September 06 2011 12:34 Ace wrote:
yea, I'm not so sure on your actual ability and no one has vouched you. Tough luck.



There will be flips.



This is a normal game by all accounts with a hidden role list. Just think of it like that.

On September 07 2011 09:58 GGQ wrote:


FOS for discouraging discussion

On September 07 2011 10:05 GGQ wrote:


hihi, you read my profile? Dutch 4lyf

On September 07 2011 11:12 GGQ wrote:


For serious AoE3 hipster cred, you have to remember the days that French were unstoppable (20% more effective workers lololol)

On September 07 2011 11:42 bumatlarge wrote:
Oh game didn't start yet? I FAILURE

On September 08 2011 11:20 iGrok wrote:


First of all, I didn't "start the shit fest day1".

The shitfest had been going on since Curu voted Palmer pre-game. But that specific shitfest started with WBG's Random Vote.

Second of all



This is trying hard to justify it?

Look, if you want to tunnel someone, that's fine. Just pick someone else to fight with.

On September 09 2011 02:25 BayonnetAnderson wrote:

Ah, random voting, the most useless way to possibly kick a game off. Arguing about lurkers is better than this. Seriously, does anyone feel threatened at all with 1/9 votes? Any risk of death?

Now, iGrok, lets talk about him shall we



This jumps out at me, this is so... unnecessarily defensive, I don't think I've ever been "on edge" when rolling town. I mean as town I don't really care that much if I die or if a couple of idiots vote for me, its almost par for the course. I generally don't even acknowledge the first votes thrown at me, nor do most town, as we know we are innocent. We certainly have nothing to fear, why then is iGrok scared and on edge? What motivation is there for this "edginess", from a town perspective? None, at least none that I can see.

Lets compare this "edginess" with what iGrok usually does as town. From XLIV, his first post upon replacing



Doesn't seem that on edge to me, no real nervousnessor attempts at justification, just "this is what I think, deal with it!" There is not "oh no, I better avoid people tunneling me, what are people going to think of me" namely there is not fear no emotional undercurrent that suggests iGrok might be hiding something, even though there is a bit of doubt its not the prominent part of the post, its not dominating it, unlike the majority of his posts here.

This post right here gives a similar emotional vibe to the first quote I posted, namely fear and discomfort


Can no one else smell the tinge of fear from this post? Note that this desire to avoid the spotlight, this deep fear isn't present in his play as town in mafia XLIV, where he was not at all afraid to be a nexus of attention. Notice he *really* doesn't want to be tunneled, he wants to be away from the spotlight

Compare the above "oh don't tunnel me" to iGrok's response to being called scum by wherebugsgo in XLIV



Notice the absolute lack of fear in fact there is a bit of arrogance in the post, that is the attitude of a town player. Fear and anger are what I see in iGrok's posts so far this game, not a tinge of arrogance or that "deal with it" tone from mafia XLIV.

Its interesting that iGrok apparently notices this change (probably informed by his team) and drops back to an arrogant tone with things like



Which is a magnificent change, but far too late, and still out of character. The major sticking point of this in my mind is that while iGrok was arrogant in XLIV, his arrogance was always *useful*, while he did post with some arrogance and willfulness it was never stuff like "we'll I don't feel like helping right now", generally he didn't shut down avenues of conversation like this, arrogance was also one of his major sticking points in mafia XL, where he was the mafia godfather, and he took an "everyone but me sucks" approach to the game, which got him lynched day 2, this looks like a lapse into similar behavior. What motivation does a townie have for refusing to give his reads?

This evidence is pretty damning. iGrok's fear and doubt have become his undoing, iGrok is almost certainly scum.

##Vote: iGrok

+ Show Spoiler +

On September 09 2011 04:18 TheAwesomeAll wrote:

i disagree, ive never really seen a rvs on teamliquid and imo it basicly quick started the game. (i like the random talking about the game better)
random vote, ergo scum, is a pretty bad base for an analysis. the rest of your analysis is pretty good but starting it of with that random vote makes me think you are mainly attacking him because he voted for you.

On September 09 2011 04:23 BayonnetAnderson wrote:

None of my case is based on it being random voting, read the actual case. I'm simply saying I think its stupid, but towns do it all the time, its not really a tell either way.

Way to take a single line and use it to try to discredit a whole case. I was just pointing out that I believe the RVS is utterly worthless, NOT that iGrok is scum for starting/participating in it.

On September 09 2011 05:36 Curu wrote:
Let's get this thread going. If not TAA I would be down for GGQ.

On September 09 2011 05:51 Palmar wrote:
Didn't even know TAA was playing. I think iGrok is a bad lynch, GGQ is by far the better alternative.

On September 09 2011 06:07 Curu wrote:
I don't agree with the case on iGrok. I don't think scum would put themselves so out there at the start of the game without trying to push something, and he's not really trying to push any objective. I find GGQ a bit suspicious for trying to throw suspicion on an obvious RV before the game even started.

TAA's posts have been a lot of nothing relevant. I feel best about him, especially with his response to Bayonnet's post. He says it's good analysis but then that it's all irrelevant because it's an OMGUS. If it's good analysis it obviously isn't an OMGUS.

On September 09 2011 06:10 TheAwesomeAll wrote:
i basicly tell him its stupid to introduce someone as the dude whos voting for me is scum because of this :

On September 09 2011 11:24 Curu wrote:
rofl, so my vote randomly attracts people to sheep my vote without thinking he's scum? Clearly you think something is up with TAA too since you keep mentioning him as a major lynch candidate.

On September 09 2011 11:32 Curu wrote:
So you're convinced half the members in this Town are retarded sheep that'll vote for the first thing pointed out to them?

On September 09 2011 11:32 chaos13 wrote:


I'm now recalling XLIV and sevryn. Remember who started that one too?

On September 09 2011 11:43 Curu wrote:
I actually like TAA a lot less now because of both WBG and xtfftc. WBG has been centering on TAA as a major lynch candidate and asking us to consolidate votes on him while also trying to set me up in the case of TAA flipping Town. I have never seen him pull the stupid speculation of "if x flips Town then his accuser must be scum" in either of the games I was involved with him in.

xtfftc's post:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=261732&currentpage=13#250

Full of contradictions. He is pressing Palmar for calling GGQ a bad lynch, then goes and calls GGQ a bad lynch in the very next paragraph of the same post. Also the hedging of his vote by calling TAA possible "bad Town."

On September 09 2011 11:51 Curu wrote:
So everyone else thinks he's scum, you think everyone else is better than you, but you think I'm scum because I tricked everyone into voting for TAA.

On September 09 2011 11:51 Curu wrote:
And you go ahead and act like you're sure TAA will flip Town and start trying to assign the blame. Okay.

On September 09 2011 11:51 Curu wrote:
If you think TAA will flip Town why not try to push someone you feel is a better lynch or actually stop his lynch instead of pre-emptively trying to assign blame?

On September 09 2011 11:55 Curu wrote:
So explain to me how you go from this:



To "Curu is scum because he started the votes on TAA" before the lynch has even gone through.

If you think he's an acceptable lynch clearly you think there's a decent chance he will flip scum. And yet you're acting sure now that he will flip Town.

What gives?

On September 09 2011 12:46 Curu wrote:
Hey WBG, I realize you think you're the shit after Resurrection and Palmar talking you up, but if you're Town drop it. I went through the same phase you seem to be going through, and it resulted in me tunneling supersoft/BC/Ace (all Town) in separate games because I thought I was the shit and couldn't be wrong. As well as constantly attacking and shutting down Townies in Personality, which fueled the derpfest the Town had going on.

I actually agree with Zona's post, most of the votes on TAA's wagon are pretty sheepish.

Reading through TAA's past games though, the ones where he's been scum he never has a strong opinion, which fits with his play here, whereas as Town in AA he hooks onto Pyo as a scumread and pushes him hard over and over, and in XLIII he was sure enough of his day 1 read on JeeJee to fakeclaim Vig in spectacularly derp fashion.

On September 09 2011 12:57 Curu wrote:
After the game if you're Town you can realize that your "neener neener" posting doesn't help Town whatsoever.

It took me 3 games to come to that realization myself after watching Town self destruct in Personality, hope you'll learn that lesson faster .

On September 08 2011 11:52 sandroba wrote:

Man iGrok, why so dodgy? Is it wrong of me to interrogate you to try to determine your aligment? You sure don't like the heat do you?

On September 09 2011 07:04 sandroba wrote:
Alright TAA is the best lynch. No bullshit allowed here sir.
##Vote: TheAwesomeAll

On September 09 2011 07:26 iGrok wrote:


I don't think either GGQ or JeeJee are scum, but I don't think they're town either, and besides myself, Sandroba, and you, their the only ones who've really done shit so far. I just don't know anything yet. The only person I feel comfortable voting for now is TAA, and that's simply because I have to vote and he's the only guy I've got a partial read on.

Of course, maybe I'm just not as good as you? Or perhaps you have some power that grants you more insight into the game already? Or maybe you're in a QT with 3 other people?

On September 09 2011 07:03 iGrok wrote:
Haha, wow. This game is going to be fun.

I can't have Pressure voted and Random voted. Pick one to accuse me of. But, your first post revealed your true identity, so now I've got something to play off of. So now lets take a look at what else has been going on.

GGQ and JeeJee got into a pissing contest.
chaos13 and wbg gave their opinions of things.
BA finally posts, ~36 hours after I vote for him.
TheAwesomeAll got some attention.

I'm going to vote for TheAwesomeAll, not merely for his incredibly short posts, but for his suspicion of GGQ.

"You're defending yourself so you must be scum!"

##Vote TheAwesomeAll

On September 09 2011 07:03 iGrok wrote:
Haha, wow. This game is going to be fun.

I can't have Pressure voted and Random voted. Pick one to accuse me of. But, your first post revealed your true identity, so now I've got something to play off of. So now lets take a look at what else has been going on.

GGQ and JeeJee got into a pissing contest.
chaos13 and wbg gave their opinions of things.
BA finally posts, ~36 hours after I vote for him.
TheAwesomeAll got some attention.

+ Show Spoiler +

On September 09 2011 06:24 Jackal58 wrote:

That makes perfect sense/////////// If you're not quite sane.
##VOTE: TheAwesomeAll

I encourage everybody to vote for one of these derps voting for no reason. Pick a couple and we'll consolidate. This game is pure bullshit so far.

On September 10 2011 15:31 Curu wrote:
Well that'll mark the second game in a row WBG has been horribly wrong on reading me.

On September 10 2011 23:52 Palmar wrote:
I think I already explained why iGrok isn't scum, are you not reading the thread wherebugsgo? And what's with the omission of Mig in your list?

On September 09 2011 05:59 Palmar wrote:


I already explained that I feel iGrok's posting is too unrestricted and impulsive for him to be scum, I don't think there is actually a case against him.

is just derping around, I'll let you know if he's scum. If he doesn't apply any logic and refuses to listen to reason we'll hang him. He has a very transparent scum play once you realize how good his town play generally is.

On September 11 2011 00:10 Curu wrote:
I think with the number of people jumping so fast onto the TAA wagon, there's a decent chance that one of iGrok or GGQ is scum.

People who jumped onto TAA after me with poor reasoning:

Jackal58, no mention of iGrok, says that GGQ isn't a good vote.

iGrok, quick jump onto TAA, cites a reason as TAA attacked someone for defending himself, doesn't mention sandroba for attacking iGrok himself for pretty much the same reason.

sandroba, doesn't think GGQ is a good lynch, wants iGrok, quick jump onto TAA.

xtfftc, attacks Palmar for saying he likes TAA as a lynch better than GGQ, then turns around and says the exact same thing that he likes TAA as a lynch better than GGQ or iGrok. Basically attacks Palmar for something he showed in his post that he agreed with.

bumatlarge, likes both iGrok and GGQ lynches, then switches gears into TAA and liking Mig/Palmar instead.

Of these, I think sandroba looks the worst. sandroba because of meta reasons mostly; it isn't like him to only lightly push iGrok then switch completely. In XLIII he was scum and when his teammate came under fire day 1 he pushed lightly/FoSed him but with no real weight behind it. He's also been a lot more useless compared to his usual Town play.

Finally Mig's contributions and reasoning have been a lot worse than what I would expect from him. He wagons onto WBG's attack on me for starting the TAA vote when he admits during the night that he himself thought TAA was a valid vote. His pushes on Palmar because of Palmar defending iGrok are really weird considering he just finished a game where Palmar did the exact same thing and his attack on sinani for derping around is very unlike him, especially when there's more solid material in the thread to work with. The situation is almost exactly like supersoft in AA where supersoft lied about being active in PMs when he hadn't PMed anyone at all, except I was the one foaming at the mouth wanting to lynch supersoft for his lie and Mig was the one telling me that that alone did not show super was Mafia.

On September 11 2011 00:17 Curu wrote:


The difference between your suspicion on me and Mig's suspicion on me was how you two viewed the TAA wagons. You actually pointed out that the votes were piling too fast and made some effort to stop the wagon, Mig did not. In fact Mig himself admitted he thought TAA was a good vote but then turned around and followed you in calling me scummy for starting the TAA vote. He's bandwagoning and calling me scum for voting on a lynch that he agreed with me on.

On September 11 2011 01:27 Jackal58 wrote:

Look real hard at Bugs GMan.

On September 11 2011 03:28 sinani206 wrote:


scumslip bro
##vote wherebugsgo

On September 11 2011 03:13 wherebugsgo wrote:
Alright, I'm gonna "contribute," ready?

Kill Sandroba, Curu, GGQ, sinani and Jackal.

On September 11 2011 08:29 sinani206 wrote:


yeah it does your wasting your time on me when im "obviously scum" lol but the thing is im town so no reason to attack me anyway

On September 11 2011 10:57 chaos13 wrote:


But you're scum, so your opinion doesn't count.

On September 11 2011 11:13 sinani206 wrote:


lol meta defense. your scum bro

On September 11 2011 09:01 sinani206 wrote:
im the only thing going on

On September 11 2011 10:41 sinani206 wrote:
what does my favorite role have to do with contributing? i dont understand that. anyway, i dont have any reads atm.

On September 11 2011 05:29 sinani206 wrote:
just got here have nothing else to say bro get away from me thought i would stop in again just in case anyone would get mad at my vote and it turns out they did so cool story bro but im voting for wbg no point wasting my time with anything else im being as efficient as possible bro get out

On September 11 2011 12:13 Curu wrote:
Palmar basically took everything that made his chaotic playstyle Pro Town and removed it, keeping the anti Town and unhelpful elements while eliminating the parts that actually helped find scum.
.

On September 12 2011 04:29 Jackal58 wrote:

Every post you make has a different "list" You're not consolidating shit.




I have never to my knowledge played with her before. And if we're tracking connections I'd say you and Zona are joined at the hip.

On September 12 2011 04:51 Jackal58 wrote:

Is OK with either TAA or iGrok lynch


Begins to distance himself from the flip.



Does it some more. Oh lookie. Another list.


More "I think he's town"



What happened here?







And then you apply the hammer.

You're scum Bro. The scum slip just seals the deal.

On September 12 2011 05:59 Jackal58 wrote:
Blow it out your wazoo bugs. My contribution is pointing out you are scum so I make no contributions. You're scum bro.

On September 12 2011 06:46 Jackal58 wrote:

Constant OMGUS
You are a better lynch than anybody.

On September 12 2011 10:34 Zona wrote:
I might not be able to be here for the deadline, but I want to reiterate that I want everyone to seriously consider lynching bumatlarge. My case has been posted here and bumatlarge's subsequent posts don't contradict the evidence I provided.

I believe a sandroba lynch is not as good, because sandroba has been inactive, with a single scummy action in the vote for theawesomeall out of nowhere. bumatlarge has far more scummy actions, and hasn't added much to the discussion since then. sandroba has promised to be more active in the near future - and we can hold him to that, because if he really goes inactive again, do you think Ace will offer him leniency again? When sandroba becomes more active, we'll have a lot more to go on to get a read on him, instead of just a few posts. And if sandroba doesn't become more active, we'll insist that Ace modkill him.

I also believe a sinani lynch is not as good, because sinani's behavior is entirely indefensible. This means both town and scum can jump on the lynch offering much less insight. I say that a vig shot would be best here.

On September 12 2011 10:39 Zona wrote:
Oh, someone asked me about which of the players in this game I've played with, if I recall correctly it would be
Mig/Palmar/bumatlarge/TheAwesomeAll in Arkham Asylum (which sandroba cohosted)
sandroba/GGQ/Mig/Curu/Palmar/chaos13/TheAwesomeAll/JeeJee in World at War 2 (what fun that was)
Those are the only two games I've played here in recent memory.

On September 12 2011 10:45 chaos13 wrote:


Told you GGQ was scum.

On September 12 2011 10:53 Zona wrote:
Alright, whatever. It's clear my case isn't getting traction.

##Vote sinani

And Mig, what a terrible mistake for you to make no matter what alignment you are. I'm sure we'll be looking hard at you tomorrow.

On September 12 2011 11:40 sandroba wrote:

To be quite honest with you I simply don't see bum rolling mafia so many times in a row lol

On September 12 2011 11:57 BayonnetAnderson wrote:

This is the *most* retarded reason I have ever seen for calling someone town. You are aware that L rolled mafia his first 7 games?

I'm flabbergasted that anyone would even say this...

Anyway, can we get a votecount? Please?

On September 12 2011 12:00 chaos13 wrote:


You're so scummy it hurts.

On September 12 2011 17:56 Palmar wrote:
Bum is not scum you scrub, what the shit?

Seriously, stop the ridiculousness. This game is as close as solved right now, just shoot into this list and lynch into it too: Mig, WBG, chaos13, GGQ.

I think Sandroba's shit is ok, only thing that really bothers me is his xtf vote which is imo based on nothing, but I don't know. xtf has been lurking hardcore this game. In case I'm yet fucking again wrong about chaos13, maybe xtf should be shot.

Zona is almost definitely town, Bumatlarge IS TOWN YOU MORONS. Jackal has a tiny chance of being scum, just because he cannot be read, but I'm leaning town now. The smurf is some baddie town and I think Curu is definitely town.

Stop being idiots, shoot those people.

On September 13 2011 05:55 Curu wrote:
I would say Palmar definitely needs a look, none of his contributions have any real effort put behind them, he has done no real scumhunting besides throwing out his reads but not pushing them, contradicted himself in calling my reads terrible when they were the same as his. As I said he's pushing his same playstyle but without any of the things that made it Pro Town or helped scumhunt.

The smurf just has walls of text tunneling one single person each day without really commenting on anything else. I was a bit suspicious of him earlier but his latest post really blows him into scummy waters IMO, rather than consider all possibilities he only pushed both Pro-Mafia stances on my breadcrumb. I reacted a similar way in WaW2 as scum to Drazerk's claim.

On September 13 2011 09:03 Jackal58 wrote:

Why would Zona?

On September 13 2011 09:37 chaos13 wrote:


He's so sure because he's scum.

And the only way he could be 100% sure is if you're scum with him. Reminds me of something Jackal and Coag did in a game once. They got pissed at each other and made the biggest busses ever seen in the history of mafia, and the exact phrase "He is 100% mafia" was thrown around a few times.

On September 13 2011 09:23 Jackal58 wrote:

No it wasn't. Palmar claimed he asked Ace then Zona jumped in with her answer. It wasn't "out there" at all. Ace confirmed Palmar's answer. He didn't confirm Palmar asked it but he confirmed the answer. I'm inclined to believe Palmar at this point. Zona may have asked as well but your question is leading and scummy looking. Palmar can't ask but Zona can. And Zona hedged her answer. You're both scum bro.

On September 13 2011 10:02 Palmar wrote:
really, you're grasping at straws bugs...

just this night you have accused me on being scum on the following reasons:

1. being confident in my reads
2. asking the host about rules

meh, I can't convince scum.

and the rest of the scumteam (sandroba, mig, chaos? xtf?) are hiding!

On September 12 2011 01:05 Curu wrote:
Palmar what do you mean my reads are below my standards? From what I've seen we've agreed on almost everything in this game (iGrok Town, GGQ better lynch than iGrok, TAA good lynch, Mig playing below his rapetown, sandroba scummy, sinani derping around). The only thing we've disagreed upon is WBG. Are you perhaps telling me that many of my scum reads (and your same scum reads you're also pushing) are Town?

On September 15 2011 06:42 Curu wrote:
Mafia games are more fun when you're dead ^^

On September 19 2011 09:19 BayonnetAnderson wrote:
Game was pretty WTF. I played absolutely *awful* as scum, thanks for the save wbg!

Also I still think we needed to have bussed Palmar once he claimed DT, could have easily gotten Jackal killed and then won from there.

All is well that ends well, I guess.

The best newbie award goes to wherebugsgo for blocking a hit on Zona.
The worst newbie award goes to wherebugsgo for blocking a hit on BayonetteAnderson.
The best newbie award goes to wherebugsgo for roleblocking BayonetteAnderson, screwing up any chance of the Mafia lawling their way to a win with a Day Vigi shot.

On September 19 2011 09:47 chaos13 wrote:


Never fake a scum slip to catch scum. Of course mafia are going to jump on it. Cause it's a fucking scum slip.