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Some Mafia Game - Page 10

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Curu
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada2817 Posts
September 08 2011 20:01 GMT
#181
##Vote TheAwesomeAll
wat
Curu
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada2817 Posts
September 08 2011 20:36 GMT
#182
Let's get this thread going. If not TAA I would be down for GGQ.
wat
GGQ
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Canada2653 Posts
September 08 2011 20:38 GMT
#183
On September 09 2011 05:36 Curu wrote:
Let's get this thread going. If not TAA I would be down for GGQ.


Care to explain why?
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
September 08 2011 20:39 GMT
#184
On September 09 2011 02:25 BayonnetAnderson wrote:
iGrok

Ah, random voting, the most useless way to possibly kick a game off. Arguing about lurkers is better than this. Seriously, does anyone feel threatened at all with 1/9 votes? Any risk of death?

Now, iGrok, lets talk about him shall we

Show nested quote +
On September 08 2011 02:59 iGrok wrote:
On September 08 2011 00:56 sandroba wrote:
On September 07 2011 13:25 iGrok wrote:
Lets do this


With a smurf in the game, I have nothing to base your actions off of. I want you to contribute a lot, so that I can get a good read off of you.

Until then, you make me uncomfortable.

##Vote Bayonet Anderson


Yo iGrok, if you are going to start a RVS why do you go out of your way to make it neat and make it seem justifiable? You ought to know that's no valid reason to vote, why make it seem so?

I consider that a valid reason to vote. With no setup knowledge other than my own role, I'm a little on edge anyways.


This jumps out at me, this is so... unnecessarily defensive, I don't think I've ever been "on edge" when rolling town. I mean as town I don't really care that much if I die or if a couple of idiots vote for me, its almost par for the course. I generally don't even acknowledge the first votes thrown at me, nor do most town, as we know we are innocent. We certainly have nothing to fear, why then is iGrok scared and on edge? What motivation is there for this "edginess", from a town perspective? None, at least none that I can see.

Lets compare this "edginess" with what iGrok usually does as town. From XLIV, his first post upon replacing

Show nested quote +
On August 25 2011 10:19 iGrok wrote:
[image loading]


Doesn't seem that on edge to me, no real nervousnessor attempts at justification, just "this is what I think, deal with it!" There is not "oh no, I better avoid people tunneling me, what are people going to think of me" namely there is not fear no emotional undercurrent that suggests iGrok might be hiding something, even though there is a bit of doubt its not the prominent part of the post, its not dominating it, unlike the majority of his posts here.

This post right here gives a similar emotional vibe to the first quote I posted, namely fear and discomfort

Show nested quote +
On September 08 2011 11:20 iGrok wrote:
On September 08 2011 02:59 iGrok wrote:
On September 08 2011 00:56 sandroba wrote:
On September 07 2011 13:25 iGrok wrote:
Lets do this


With a smurf in the game, I have nothing to base your actions off of. I want you to contribute a lot, so that I can get a good read off of you.

Until then, you make me uncomfortable.

##Vote Bayonet Anderson


Yo iGrok, if you are going to start a RVS why do you go out of your way to make it neat and make it seem justifiable? You ought to know that's no valid reason to vote, why make it seem so?

I consider that a valid reason to vote. With no setup knowledge other than my own role, I'm a little on edge anyways.

This is trying hard to justify it?

Look, if you want to tunnel someone, that's fine. Just pick someone else to fight with.

Can no one else smell the tinge of fear from this post? Note that this desire to avoid the spotlight, this deep fear isn't present in his play as town in mafia XLIV, where he was not at all afraid to be a nexus of attention. Notice he *really* doesn't want to be tunneled, he wants to be away from the spotlight

Compare the above "oh don't tunnel me" to iGrok's response to being called scum by wherebugsgo in XLIV

Show nested quote +
On August 27 2011 13:26 iGrok wrote:
@WBG:
You still think I'm mafia? After I started the vote for Mig, shot down attempts to split votes between Mig and BB, and... well I haven't told you why Kurumi is scum yet. I've got to think about when to release that, I'm not sure if it'd be better far in advance or right before daypost.


Notice the absolute lack of fear in fact there is a bit of arrogance in the post, that is the attitude of a town player. Fear and anger are what I see in iGrok's posts so far this game, not a tinge of arrogance or that "deal with it" tone from mafia XLIV.

Its interesting that iGrok apparently notices this change (probably informed by his team) and drops back to an arrogant tone with things like

Show nested quote +
On September 08 2011 11:21 iGrok wrote:
Oh, and I'll give my opinions on people when I'm damn well ready.


Which is a magnificent change, but far too late, and still out of character. The major sticking point of this in my mind is that while iGrok was arrogant in XLIV, his arrogance was always *useful*, while he did post with some arrogance and willfulness it was never stuff like "we'll I don't feel like helping right now", generally he didn't shut down avenues of conversation like this, arrogance was also one of his major sticking points in mafia XL, where he was the mafia godfather, and he took an "everyone but me sucks" approach to the game, which got him lynched day 2, this looks like a lapse into similar behavior. What motivation does a townie have for refusing to give his reads?

This evidence is pretty damning. iGrok's fear and doubt have become his undoing, iGrok is almost certainly scum.

##Vote: iGrok

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


Hi GMarshal.

I agree though, we should kill iGrok. Doesn't make much sense to withhold your opinions as a townie, and iGrok is doing exactly that.

Then, there's this:


On September 09 2011 04:18 TheAwesomeAll wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 09 2011 02:25 BayonnetAnderson wrote:
iGrok

Ah, random voting, the most useless way to possibly kick a game off. Arguing about lurkers is better than this. Seriously, does anyone feel threatened at all with 1/9 votes? Any risk of death?

i disagree, ive never really seen a rvs on teamliquid and imo it basicly quick started the game. (i like the random talking about the game better)
random vote, ergo scum, is a pretty bad base for an analysis. the rest of your analysis is pretty good but starting it of with that random vote makes me think you are mainly attacking him because he voted for you.


Which takes GMarshal's Anderson's entire argument and degenerates it into one "based upon a random vote" when in reality, if you actually read the rest of it, is completely untrue.

TAA is somewhat suspicious for wanting to discredit Anderson here.

(Is this why you voted him, Curu?)

On September 09 2011 04:23 BayonnetAnderson wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 09 2011 04:18 TheAwesomeAll wrote:
On September 09 2011 02:25 BayonnetAnderson wrote:
iGrok

Ah, random voting, the most useless way to possibly kick a game off. Arguing about lurkers is better than this. Seriously, does anyone feel threatened at all with 1/9 votes? Any risk of death?

i disagree, ive never really seen a rvs on teamliquid and imo it basicly quick started the game. (i like the random talking about the game better)
random vote, ergo scum, is a pretty bad base for an analysis. the rest of your analysis is pretty good but starting it of with that random vote makes me think you are mainly attacking him because he voted for you.

None of my case is based on it being random voting, read the actual case. I'm simply saying I think its stupid, but towns do it all the time, its not really a tell either way.

Way to take a single line and use it to try to discredit a whole case. I was just pointing out that I believe the RVS is utterly worthless, NOT that iGrok is scum for starting/participating in it.


I would disagree with this, just on the principle that the RVS is exactly what allowed us to identify whose behavior was strange.

A townie shouldn't be afraid of voting someone. They can add additional justification when asked, rather than preemptively adding justification in anticipation of being called out. That fear, as you yourself described, comes from someone who is afraid of being singled out or someone who is afraid of attention.

More often than not such people are mafia.
Kavdragon
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1251 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-08 20:44:20
September 08 2011 20:44 GMT
#185
I'm currently on an indefinite hiatus from TL =(
BayonnetAnderson
Profile Joined August 2011
United States60 Posts
September 08 2011 20:45 GMT
#186
Meh, I'm not going to argue about RVS until the postgame, its not really conducive to finding scum to argue about it right now.

I'd like to hear a justification from Curu however, I hate votes without reasoning, now that we are more than 24 hours into day 1.
"Ashes to ashes, dust to dust."
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
September 08 2011 20:47 GMT
#187
On September 09 2011 05:36 Curu wrote:
Let's get this thread going. If not TAA I would be down for GGQ.


Whoa wtf what happened to iGrok?

Post some analysis or I'll push for your lynch so you can't pull an XLIV
TheAwesomeAll
Profile Joined January 2011
Netherlands1609 Posts
September 08 2011 20:50 GMT
#188
curu is all over the place!
dr Helvetica <3
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
September 08 2011 20:51 GMT
#189
Didn't even know TAA was playing. I think iGrok is a bad lynch, GGQ is by far the better alternative.
Computer says mafia
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
September 08 2011 20:52 GMT
#190
On September 09 2011 05:51 Palmar wrote:
Didn't even know TAA was playing. I think iGrok is a bad lynch, GGQ is by far the better alternative.


Can you explain?

What do you think about Curu?
GGQ
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Canada2653 Posts
September 08 2011 20:55 GMT
#191
On September 09 2011 05:51 Palmar wrote:
Didn't even know TAA was playing. I think iGrok is a bad lynch, GGQ is by far the better alternative.


Again, can we get explanations for statements like this, please? I'm still baffled about why people think I'm scummy. Is this all because JeeJee misunderstood my post?
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
September 08 2011 20:59 GMT
#192
On September 09 2011 05:52 wherebugsgo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 09 2011 05:51 Palmar wrote:
Didn't even know TAA was playing. I think iGrok is a bad lynch, GGQ is by far the better alternative.


Can you explain?

What do you think about Curu?


I already explained that I feel iGrok's posting is too unrestricted and impulsive for him to be scum, I don't think there is actually a case against him.

Curu is just derping around, I'll let you know if he's scum. If he doesn't apply any logic and refuses to listen to reason we'll hang him. He has a very transparent scum play once you realize how good his town play generally is.
Computer says mafia
TheAwesomeAll
Profile Joined January 2011
Netherlands1609 Posts
September 08 2011 21:00 GMT
#193
On September 09 2011 05:55 GGQ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 09 2011 05:51 Palmar wrote:
Didn't even know TAA was playing. I think iGrok is a bad lynch, GGQ is by far the better alternative.


Again, can we get explanations for statements like this, please? I'm still baffled about why people think I'm scummy. Is this all because JeeJee misunderstood my post?

for me its because you put so much effort in defending yourself, if iGrok sends sublimal messages hes afraid of the pressure you are literally screaming it. Also in a very interesting game like this
you go after the lurkers...

On September 09 2011 02:22 GGQ wrote:
I believe the only ones who haven't posted yet are Mig, Zona, and Bayonnet?

Aside from them, I really want to hear more from TheAwesomeAll and sinani. Both of them got their post/vote requirement out of the way asap and haven't said anything since. Penny for your thoughts, guys.


dr Helvetica <3
Curu
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada2817 Posts
September 08 2011 21:07 GMT
#194
I don't agree with the case on iGrok. I don't think scum would put themselves so out there at the start of the game without trying to push something, and he's not really trying to push any objective. I find GGQ a bit suspicious for trying to throw suspicion on an obvious RV before the game even started.

TAA's posts have been a lot of nothing relevant. I feel best about him, especially with his response to Bayonnet's post. He says it's good analysis but then that it's all irrelevant because it's an OMGUS. If it's good analysis it obviously isn't an OMGUS.
wat
TheAwesomeAll
Profile Joined January 2011
Netherlands1609 Posts
September 08 2011 21:10 GMT
#195
i basicly tell him its stupid to introduce someone as the dude whos voting for me is scum because of this :
dr Helvetica <3
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
September 08 2011 21:14 GMT
#196
On September 09 2011 06:07 Curu wrote:
I don't agree with the case on iGrok. I don't think scum would put themselves so out there at the start of the game without trying to push something, and he's not really trying to push any objective. I find GGQ a bit suspicious for trying to throw suspicion on an obvious RV before the game even started.

TAA's posts have been a lot of nothing relevant. I feel best about him, especially with his response to Bayonnet's post. He says it's good analysis but then that it's all irrelevant because it's an OMGUS. If it's good analysis it obviously isn't an OMGUS.


Thanks for clarifying, and I agree with the bolded. (guess I was right then?)


On September 09 2011 06:10 TheAwesomeAll wrote:
i basicly tell him its stupid to introduce someone as the dude whos voting for me is scum because of this :


wat

So, we have 7 hours to make this lynch happen. iGrok/GGQ/TAA, let's go.

TAA needs to post more, GGQ I wanna hear from you about these guys.

Actually, I wanna hear from all three of you about the current suspect list.
TheAwesomeAll
Profile Joined January 2011
Netherlands1609 Posts
September 08 2011 21:18 GMT
#197
On September 09 2011 04:38 bumatlarge wrote:
I'm feeling pretty good about GGQ or iGrok, unless anyone has some serious issues with the two, I think everyone should start putting your vote on one or the other.

##unvote
##vote bumatlarge

of iGrok and GGQ, iGrok is the scummiest but the case against either is pretty bad.
dr Helvetica <3
Mig
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
United States4714 Posts
September 08 2011 21:20 GMT
#198
Palmar how is iGrok opening the game with a planned vote on BA impulsive?

The iGrok defense doesn't make sense. All he did was put a vote on the smurf basically stating it is nothing and just a pressure vote. So how exactly is that putting himself out there? Also I don't know why you guys are even defending him in the first place.
Moderator
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
September 08 2011 21:21 GMT
#199
Wtf is an RVS?????

I'm down with lynching any of the first 5 people that started the game with a vote.
Life can only kill you once.
TheAwesomeAll
Profile Joined January 2011
Netherlands1609 Posts
September 08 2011 21:22 GMT
#200
so you think hes scum? you think palmar is scum? What are you saying?
dr Helvetica <3
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