EPTTL Mafia L
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jaj22
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jaj22
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=238699 My opinions on the lynch candidates so far: Sandroba: Day 1 mostly drunken trolling, but day 2 looks fine. Nothing suspicious in the BC mason log. I'm more worried about some of the people who made cases against him. Protactinium: After that n1 post? Really? What's more interesting is that all of his targets ignored it except Evantrees. Macpo: I wouldn't be able to call him noob scum rather than noob town personally. There's a definite change in posting style but I found one post coaching him in the thread between the offending posts: On January 14 2012 05:39 Jitsu wrote: RE: Macpo Why are you pointing out that you are such a newb? In the post I recall, you really try to drive home the fact that you are a newb and that you wish people pardon you're small mistakes! Take responsibility for you're actions. I feel that you are being wishy-washy. Don't be wishy-washy. Could be a coincidence, but Macpo appears to be following this advice to the letter. GGQ: Terrible posting. Could be a very time-poor veteran townie, I suppose, but it's not excusable at this stage. | ||
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Oh, nothing against you. Just that a major part of the case against Macpo seems to be that he's been scum-coached between those two posts, but he could simply have been following your advice from the thread. | ||
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On January 18 2012 01:50 Jayjay54 wrote: BMs latest action made no sense, you got a point there. The thing is, they make no sense from a scum perspective either. Even as a scum sheriff there's no reason to waste a jailtown without reason. He basically acted like a mad scientist and is probably gone insane or trolling. I don't know about scum though, because, like I said, those actions were neither town nor scum favoured. What would you expect a scum sheriff to do? No point keeping the jailings for an open roleclaim because you'd just get lynched for it, so the obvious choice is to go blue-hunting. The nightkills certainly look like blue hunting to me, so it fits. | ||
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On January 18 2012 02:04 Jayjay54 wrote: In conclusion, town fucked up big time voting  Given the low vote count on the three main candidates (32 votes, 10 scum), it looks implausible that a mafia didn't get elected unless they really weren't trying. It's quite possible that mafia even spread their votes between (scum) BM and (town) BC on the basis that BC was going to lynch Protactinium or Palmar. | ||
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Looks like a lot of people don't like Bill Murray any more than I do, but I guess he can wait until tomorrow. Hopefully we'll get some mason logs or posts by then. On January 18 2012 05:35 VisceraEyes wrote: It's scummy for me to consolidate our votes on one candidate and avoid a no-lynch? After XLVIII? Pull the other one Jackal...seriously. I'll tell you what...I'll go look at this dude's like 4 posts and make a judgement for myself, but I know that it's going to take something REALLY pro-town for me to move my vote because the vets have set their sights, and I do NOT want a no-lynch today. Something I think a lot of people are missing: It's not a majority lynch system. Whoever gets the most votes dies. There is no possibility of a no-lynch. | ||
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On January 18 2012 10:24 ~OpZ~ wrote: What's your take on Protactinum? I think he's been the best town player in the game, frankly. If Macpo and GGQ both flip green then I might start to worry, but fundamentally his play looks like good scumhunting to me, and there's not too much of that going on in this game. | ||
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I'm seriously worried about some of the votes Bill Murray is picking up. Maybe he's terrible town after all. Or maybe he's scum and they're trying to make me think that he's terrible town. Gah. | ||
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On January 18 2012 10:57 ~OpZ~ wrote: And his contradictions of himself are just good town play too? Claiming to of provided foundation to a day in which he really did next to nothing? I can't say I noticed any significant contradictions. If you mean switching targets during day 1, I'd much rather see three cases than one repeated. He posted three substantial cases in day 1, one of which flipped red. I'm struggling to think who did a better job of giving town direction. Post count isn't everything. Too tired to stay up for the lynch, so voting Macpo to avoid nasty surprises. | ||
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On January 18 2012 15:27 vaderseven wrote: What does everyone find to be most important event or two most important? I want kany of you to answer. Convince me of what you see as important as something I should focus on. VE's failclaim: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13141361 Ok, not that important, but still a bright spot in d1. d1 mayor votes, noting how few: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13145147 Protactinium's n1 post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13156314 Sandroba/BC mason log: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13156712 Mason claims for reference: Mattchew: Masoned Foolishness d1 (no logs?), modkilled for posting inbox. BloodyC0bbler: Masoned Sandroba d1 (log above), unknown since. ~OpZ~: Masoned BC d1 (log above, short), unknown since. Jitsu: Masoned VisceraEyes d1 (no logs?), masoned Bill Murray d2. Bill Murray claimed another unnamed person masoned him on d2 as well. Filters to read: Bill Murray and L at least. GGQ is claiming scum so I wouldn't worry about him. There were some interesting side-cases made in d2 which I didn't read as well as I should have. Some of those should probably be here. | ||
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On January 18 2012 21:47 EchelonTee wrote: LOL GGQ claimed scum? Slight artistic license, but that's certainly what it looks like if you do the absolute minimum to dodge a modkill. | ||
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On January 18 2012 21:46 EchelonTee wrote: Does anyone else think that this post is horrendous? It's incredibly neutral, saying that "man there's a lot of people who look scummy, don't know what to do", which is kind of trivializing discussion. and slightly discredits jay's post, and his conclusion that sandro is scum. Eh. He has a valid point about JayJay's post though. I had a real wtf moment when I got to the conclusion: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13162408 Probably just confirmation bias though. He has a scum read on Sandroba already, and he's desperately looking for confirmation in data that doesn't really support it. | ||
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OpZ's opinion on BM: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13179743 Foolishness's opinion on BM (somewhat old): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13168300 Really important post there. Should have been in my list for VaderSeven. | ||
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On January 19 2012 01:43 Toadesstern wrote: another important thing would be a blue being modkilled in your list I guess  Modkills are less important than any other kill. We're not modhunting here. Your post here concerns me because it smells of "I'm so town that I still weep for our stupid dead mason". Besides, haven't you ever caught up on a game? Unless you're just reading for fun, the first thing you read is the player roster. | ||
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On January 19 2012 02:35 L wrote: It should be pretty obvious to anyone who looks at the final stretch of voting that mafia wanted BM in office, but weren't worried by a slow vote bus for BC to close out the night, which implies that out of the three candidates, at least two were mafia. In the last 2 minutes of voting, A Proact mayor/BM Jailor result turned into a BC Mayor/Proact Jailor result and then switched to a BC mayor/BM result. What about the theory that mafia were happy for BC to get elected regardless of alignment because he was going to lynch Palmar or Protactinium? | ||
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On January 19 2012 03:26 VisceraEyes wrote: Whatever, everyone seems to be discounting the idea that Protact is scum - why is that? Huh? He certainly makes more sense as the scum candidate than BM does, as far as I'm concerned. Looking at the list of players who voted (election) for Protact, all I can say is that if he's a scum candidate, scum weren't actually trying to elect him. I suppose that's marginally possible... | ||
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On January 19 2012 05:00 Toadesstern wrote: that's what I'm talking about for 2 days pretty much. Noone gets attacked but me. That's not really true. The big swings have been against BM and L. I am pushing sandroba, there's other people pushing someone else but they don't get attacked. I am literally only pushing sandro everything else is exactly the same yet I'm being stoned in here. That is one of the reasons I'm sticking with sandroba :p Maybe they're just pissed that your logic is so bad that you're unreadable despite a 10-page filter Meh. If I'm still alive tomorrow I promise to get off my arse and deconstruct your case on Sandroba properly. Maybe I'll do jayjay's Sandro/BC case at the same time. For what it's worth you're not in my top 8. I definitely want Jackal in there though. Way too many one-line posts, which fits this game's scum ethos of being completely useless. | ||
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One option is to do something like this: Pick your own target that you think is likely to be hit tonight, and RNG them together with Prot & Fool. | ||
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On January 19 2012 10:05 Foolishness wrote: Does night end at 7pm PST? My times are all screwed but two hours from now, whenever that is. | ||
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Also his case is even worse than the other Sandroba cases. Does he seriously think that Sandroba's day 1 play was strongly pro-town? Toad at least got that description right with "trolling". Is Hiro reading all the guides backwards? | ||
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Hopefully he'll get shot tonight and free up some space for more productive discussion. | ||
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2. VE hasn't shot anyone yet? Really? I'm a bit puzzled by the lack of vig shots in general. There are plenty of good targets, and scum are shooting into the midfield. Note that scum may be hiding a roleblocker by roleblocking their kill targets. 3. GGQ's vig-begging post: On January 18 2012 13:12 GGQ wrote: Yeah so I hard defended macpo because I thought he posted like I did when I was new. It's probably better to vig me tonight instead of wasting a lynch. Ok, what if there's also a jack-medic covering GGQ? Or even BM incarcerating GGQ? The latter might not sound like a good plan because of the KP loss, but scum would effectively be extending the game by a day, increasing their cumulative KP. As a significant side benefit, a scum could plausibly claim medic save or vet. My main issue with this theory is that I'm sure GGQ could have made a much scummier post if he'd tried. 4. BM's Hatter claim: Given his list of preferred targets, isn't this blackmail? I suppose he's doing it wrong because he'd be claiming to have two bombs down. 5. Sandroba: On January 19 2012 11:59 Protactinium wrote: Sandroba. Again, abyssmal day 2 posting compared to day 1. Really? I thought his day 2 posting looked like standard town Sandroba. It's not like his post quality is ever that great. Can someone name some recent Sandroba town games? I want to check his meta in case I'm misremembering. | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13195276 Looking at Slardar: Wow, this guy is terrible. Trolls most of day 1, complains about attempts to scumhunt, does absolutely no scumhunting himself. Transitions into lurking. ##Vote Slardar Post your scum reads or die. | ||
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Jitsu: What do you think? Any chance of a mason log? Also I don't like anything in Protact's latest scumread post, which is scaring the shit out of me. | ||
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On January 20 2012 02:03 wherebugsgo wrote: OpZ called BM scum the last time I checked...has something changed? Why the hell are we trusting OpZ anyway? Or BM for that matter? I'm pretty sure this post was a troll unless he changed his mind within half an hour: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13179934 While this one was his "real" opinion on BM: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13179743 And I don't trust him at all, for what it's worth. It's quite possible that both BM and OpZ are scum, and I'd be inclined to put them on the same alignment. | ||
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On January 20 2012 02:25 kingjames01 wrote: What? Do YOU want Bill Murray to blow up two of those 3? Analyse Foolishness and Protactinium for yourself. They ARE and HAVE BEEN pro-Town from the beginning. Until that changes they should not be targetted. That was my point. I should probably make those clearer. On January 20 2012 02:25 kingjames01 wrote: What about Protactinium's latest post don't you like? Analyse it for us and tell us what you think. Ok. I forgot about a couple of bits that I was fine with, so my statement was inaccurate. Here goes: On January 19 2012 11:59 Protactinium wrote: GGQ is cool. Mafia don't send out reminders that they defended mafia. Mafia also don't ask to be vigged, since they can't influence vigs, but they certainly can influence lynches. Nobody lynch him today, keke? I covered this in another post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13201470 On January 19 2012 11:59 Protactinium wrote: BM. In contrast to BM's day 1 posting, his day 2 is abyssmal. Its also become less frequent too, which exactly fits my prediction if he is mafia, as his mafia play deteriorates rapidly (for cross reference, TL Mafia XXII where he is the mafia GF). And yes I should be one to know this read as I was mafia with him in that game. This is absolutely true except that BM had a really spammy patch in day 2, so I'm not too sure about the frequency point yet. In TL Mafia XXII his post count crashes at the end of day 2 and stays low. On January 19 2012 11:59 Protactinium wrote: Toadesstern Filter all of Toadesstern's posts. Search for all instances of GGQ. Confirm that Toadesstern has never made a case on GGQ, and has in fact been preventing his lynch all yesterday. "I still think my case is good"? Lol. Bullshit. See a trend here? Also combine with my pressure yesterday, which showed that Toadesstern somehow knew what happened behind the scenes with sandroba influencing BC with Palmar's lynch. What? Toad was trying to protect his scumbuddy GGQ and get his scumbuddies Sandroba and Macpo lynched instead? I don't buy the Palmar lynch influence knowledge point because it's quite plausible that Toad just jumped to a conclusion. I don't think it's even an illogical conclusion from the "compromise" post. I'm guessing this is a pressure case because Protact can't get a read out of Toad's filter any more than I can On January 19 2012 11:59 Protactinium wrote: Sandroba. Again, abyssmal day 2 posting compared to day 1. The case totally makes sense if you consider that Toadesstern somehow knows what goes on between sandroba/BC. As for explanations related to Ciryandor, yeah, mafia usually don't do that. But they do avoid pushing too hard where they can avoid it. Sandroba was never a viable mayor candidate, never votes for mayor (neutral, I suppose, but he doesn't vote for the person who brought up the Ciryandor case - read: me), and influences the Palmar lynch. Over Ciryandor, the person whose death he has supposedly been calling for all game in thread. Combined, these points outweigh his in thread support of Ciryandor. I know I vocally said he was town yesterday. But I lied. I only said that because I needed to get macpo lynched first lol. I thought Sandroba's day 2 posting was better if anything. At least less trolly. Which mayor candidate was going to lynch Ciryandor? I thought Protactinium settled on Macpo. The Palmar lynch influence is a red mark but there was a plausible narrative based on Sandro's posts in the thread and the mason log. Still not sure about Sandroba personally. I found a couple of his other town games: His LotR (town) filter looks much like his scum play, which this game does too, but his Mini Mafia X (town) posting was vastly superior. Actual care and effort put into posting. If he doesn't raise his game here I'll consider voting for him. On January 19 2012 11:59 Protactinium wrote: bumatlarge. His apathetic posting and general lack of enthusiasm is strikingly different from his usual active town play. This meta-read is beyond me. Any other vets want to comment on Bum? | ||
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That applies to all those other lurkers too. You know who you are. | ||
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On January 20 2012 09:49 Toadesstern wrote: I defended palmar and everyone wanted him to die. I thought you are town and everyone else thinks you're mafia and now out of the sudden everyone thinks you're fine. Because Jackal, in his own words, superderped for two days. Since (almost certainly) shooting L, he's played properly. Thinking he was town before he shot L is suspicious. I am pushing sandroba instead of other people. I could literally be the town moron. I want to see sandroba flip so badly for that purpose. I mean is there anyone having a problem with lynching sandroba at this time? Anyone? Apparently Sandroba doesn't have a problem with this because he hasn't posted for two days. | ||
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On January 20 2012 10:31 Jackal58 wrote: No it isn't. Many here recognize my play on day one as being next to useless. Oh hmm. It was day one that Toad marked you as town, so that works. Maybe he's smarter than he looks. | ||
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On January 20 2012 11:08 Jitsu wrote: If the majority of the thread wants me to post logs, I will post them. Not because simply one non-determined aligned player asked. Why are you so interested in them anyway? Are you looking for anything in particular? I'm trying to get a handle on how his mind works so I can work out whether to lynch him. It's less useful if it's PM rather than IRC-style logs, but it's all information. | ||
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GGQ: Still alive. Still dodging modkills. Kingjames01: Changed my mind on him. He's been trying to wind people up all day and his posting is generally anti-town. There are valid reasons for scum to make weak anti-L posts in the situation. Sandroba: I wanted him to start posting at his Mini Mafia X level. He produced one drunken one-liner in three days. White flag stuff. Bill Murray: Only reason not to kill him is that allegedly he always plays this badly. Great. Still, if Protact doesn't want to kill him today then I'll respect that because it's his ass on the potential bomb. Also a bunch of lurkers and near-lurkers. If Chaosquo shows up while I'm still conscious then I may switch to him. Voting Kingjames01 and Sandroba because lynching GGQ is information-free. Voting double lynch for obvious reasons. | ||
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On January 21 2012 08:08 vaderseven wrote: Ok I can buy this. I didn't know mad hatters could move thier bombs. Shit, I completely missed that. Definitely don't kill Bill Murray tonight. I repeat, DO NOT KILL BILL TONIGHT If he is town, I'm pretty sure he's trying to be pro-town. Therefore he will remove his bomb from Protactinium tonight. | ||
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On January 21 2012 08:08 Jayjay54 wrote: how is a GGQ lynch information free? if he flips red, chaos is red too. I don't see how a KJ or BM lynch provides more information. Yeah, you're right. If Chaosquo shows up, I'll switch to GGQ. | ||
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On January 21 2012 09:13 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm here and my votes are for sale. Protact pushing Sandroba so hard is SOOOOOOOO suspicious to me. Like, think about it: he's been "scumhunting" all game - why lynch Sandroba? There's no new information (although arguably that is part of Protact's problem with him), so what makes him more likely to flip red today than yesterday BEFORE Macpo got lynched? I mean, if it's about his activity, why not go after someone like BrownBear or evantrees or something? Sandroba's recent inactivity is certainly my problem with him. There are a whole bunch of lurkers including BrownBear and Evantrees with little to choose between them, so voting for them is like half a vote for Bill Murray. | ||
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Very strong scum play for a first game IMO. I wouldn't underestimate him. | ||
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Does the detective get the role, the alignment or both in this game? | ||
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Man, that was so funny that I almost don't want to kill you anymore. | ||
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If Bill is a Mad Hatter, he could remove a bomb, plant a bomb and jail someone in one night, correct? Regardless, your absolute priority as a townie should be to remove the bomb from Protactinium, so if you claim to have done otherwise, I'll assume it's just a scum survival gambit and vote you tomorrow. | ||
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On January 21 2012 19:56 Jayjay54 wrote: Do you REALLY think they have the commitment to fake lake 8 pages of skyping? This looks genuine to me. It is a fuck ton of work to fake something that well. I am not even capable of faking a conversation that well. I don't think it's a fake conversation, but that doesn't mean that BC isn't scum. The way to do this is to build up your PM log during the day in realtime as if you really were masoning. Check it for anything too incriminating before posting it, and you're done. On January 21 2012 19:56 Jayjay54 wrote: We actually might consider L being the scum candidate. He ended up being godfather, so apparently scum wanted to give him DT immunitiy. If L was the red candidate and just couldn't get the leverage behind his campaing... Yeah, I think there's a possibility that mafia completely screwed up and failed to get any candidates into a good enough position to use their voting leverage without exposing themselves. L & Sandro's no-votes and a lot of suspicious players avoiding the top 3 supports that. Overall I can see valid arguments for 0, 1 and 2 scum in the elected positions, so we'll just have to judge them individually on merit. | ||
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On January 21 2012 21:55 rgTheSchworz wrote: I am expecting hiro to claim jailed, regardless of whether it is the truth or not. This actually helps town nail BM, is a relatively undetectable lie, as if he isn't Jailed/RB he can give his reads with 1 day delay. So unless hiro is SCUM, prepare for a jailed claim. No. Hiro would have to be madder than BM to pull something like that in this situation, regardless of whether he's town or scum. This post together with the one where you assume there's a roleblocker have made me somewhat suspicious of you. How to post in colours is described in the Smilies & BBCode page. | ||
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1. Most of town wants to lynch BM anyway. 2. Hiro would have to think that his own read of BM was much better than average. 3. Someone else might claim jailed. 4. The downside is monstrous compared to the upside. Want to waste a day lynching a DT? | ||
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On January 22 2012 02:58 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Why? would you be taking the reigns? Between myself, foolishness, and protract a total of 4 reds have been called out who have flipped red. More to the point however, the lynches that hit two of those reds were pushed/directed by us. You were "all over sandroba" yet you never analyzed him, or strongly and vocally pushed him as a lynch option and instead just voted alongside everyone else. You sheeped. I don't think this is true. Bill Murray has pushed Sandroba hard from day 1, and made a substantial case back then. Whatever else you can say about him, he does come out of this flip with some credit. | ||
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On January 22 2012 04:52 Jayjay54 wrote: After looking through his filter, I am sure evantree is scum. [snip] a) ZERO contributions. He actually has some posts, but none contribute scumhunting in any way. He never accused anyone. Yeah. Unfortunately this is exactly how he played in Election Mafia. I'd have had him lynched easily if it wasn't for his proven blue claim (it was a very weak role). I even told him after the game that he needed to start accusing people, so his play here has been very disappointing to me. I wouldn't vig him personally because the meta gives him a low chance of being mafia, but if he doesn't step up his play soon I'll get angry. @Evantrees: Three scum reads please. With reasons. | ||
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On January 22 2012 07:20 Lanaia wrote: Can someone direct me to the BC/Protact logs? I'm having trouble finding them. BC hasn't posted them yet, just the Foolishness and VE ones. On January 22 2012 07:20 Lanaia wrote: igabod (hasn't posted since the 14th...? or was he replaced and I missed it?) I replaced him. | ||
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On January 22 2012 20:40 Jayjay54 wrote: Look at the time stamps, look at how much time they spent! They were talking for like 5 hours straight. So the timestamps are real. Roleplaying for 5 hours? Just for the case sandro gets lynched? If sandro wasn't lynched that log is practically worthless. There is so little benefit and so much work? If they really spent 5 hours of their life "falsetalking" just in case one gets lynched, they need to chekc the life priorities Dude, we're all playing this damned game, and your filter is huge I have no doubt that those logs could be mafia vs mafia, written realtime. Note also how little of it is actual scumhunting. There's a lot of general chat, a lot of Protact-defense from Sandroba and some light commentary. Also note that BC is allegedly better at this stuff than Sandroba, and enjoys it a lot more. | ||
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On January 22 2012 20:07 Cwave wrote: Got mason'd by Jitsu last day and i can confirm that BM atleast provided the same two names as BG's to us. With that, we also saw BC list one of the Bg's as scum that BM provided us. Why would a mayor list one of his bg as scum? Actually I think this move makes more sense from a town-BM perspective than anything else he's done in this game, given that he's paranoid, crazy, likes to claim towntells and has a strong scum read on Sandroba. Let's say Bill has one of his "towntells" on one of the BGs, but he's quite suspicious of the other. Two reasons for naming Sandroba instead of the townie: 1. He might get a two-for-the-price-of-one scumlynch if he gets killed. 2. He might get a reaction out of Cwave or Jitsu if they're scum because they'll know he's lying. | ||
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On January 23 2012 00:01 Toadesstern wrote: quick question: need to know who you replaced. could you do me the favor and tell me? :p Igabod. I linked his filter in my second post. Also I think I completely misread Cwave's post about the bodyguards so don't take too much notice of my shit Need more sleep. | ||
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1. Macpo had something like 16 votes on him and was basically dead when I defended him. That would be some seriously dumb scum play. I eventually voted for him because he quit playing, like I said in the thread. I suspect scum had a lot more warning about that than I did. 2. I read a lot of Sandroba's games during day 3 to check his meta and came to the conclusion that he was at least plausible scum. Then he posted one drunken line in three days so I guessed he'd quit playing too. I'm happier with those votes that my KingJames one, because I have a bad habit of reading people as scum just because they're abusive. I'd have voted GGQ otherwise in the situation though, and I'm pissed off at him for not trying even after Protact switched his read. | ||
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You're right that it looks weird as hell. Medics covering VE? Mason but no shots from VE? | ||
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On January 22 2012 08:40 Cwave wrote: If a bodyguard is killed, will it show that he was a bodyguard? If this is the case, BM lied to me in the pm's. Ok, I confused two posts earlier. Is it correct that one of the "bodyguards" Bill listed is dead, and therefore not a bodyguard? If so, can you provide the name? Just the dead one, not the other. I don't think there's any harm in giving the name of a dead fake bodyguard. | ||
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On January 23 2012 06:26 rgTheSchworz wrote: The fact that you weren't medic saved means scum don't want you dead. Since some ppl suggest that scum doublestacked, why the F didn't they doublestack you? Inconsistency alert. rgTheSchworz thought it was obvious that Hiro would get roleblocked rather than shot last night: On January 21 2012 21:19 rgTheSchworz wrote: No, they'll RB him continously, if they haven't got any other obvious target. Why risk protection? I'd be surprised if scum didn't at least double-stack Protact. Triple stack is possible given that both GGQ and Scamp were reasonable vig targets. This looks bad for Bill Murray, because it'd be a hell of a risk for scum if he was town. Jailing Protactinium was the obvious choice (for a sane town player) once a DT was splitting the medics. | ||
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jaj22
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1. Mafia thought VE was probably lying. 2. Mafia thought VE was probably a veteran trying to draw hits. This was dispelled by night 2, I think. 3. Mafia thought VE was likely to shoot a townie. 4. Mafia didn't want to reveal their roleblocker so that they could throw suspicion on a DT or medic later. | ||
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jaj22
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On January 23 2012 07:44 Toadesstern wrote: 1) yeah if they thought so they would have thought it's #2 2) yeah if they thought THAT they would have rb-ed him while shooting because rb eliminates the 2nd live 3) that could be true 4) everyone knows mafia has 1 RB as far as I can see. 2. The OP is explicit that the veteran ability cannot be roleblocked. This may not be true for the Jack's one-shot veteran ability, so RB & shoot night 2 makes more sense. However, mafia may have thought VE was a plain mason at that point, and shot him just because he was pressing Sandroba. 4. No, the existence of a roleblocker is unproven, although personally I think it's extremely likely. | ||
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On January 23 2012 07:47 Cyber_Cheese wrote: Give us the name and alignment, so we can work with that. We don't actually need to know the persons role. Not until Hiro's under genuine threat of a lynch, at least. Just name & alignment is fine for the moment. | ||
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jaj22
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supersoft and risk.nuke haven't had much thread presence by their usual standards but I haven't seen anything worth lynching them for yet. Players who I like rather less so far: Brownbear, ~OpZ~, glurio, Munk-E. It's a bit of a lurker list but they all had no contribution apart from dubious votes on day 3. | ||
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On January 23 2012 07:58 Cyber_Cheese wrote: What? Are you bluefishing? The alignment is all that a townie should care about. No, they should also care about not mislynching. If Hiro is likely to get mislynched, he may be able to avoid it by revealing the role of his other check, and depending on the role, this may be worth the cost. Unless that happens, he absolutely shouldn't reveal the role. | ||
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jaj22
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On January 23 2012 08:22 bumatlarge wrote: I really think hiro has said that the person he checked is blue, so giving us a name now would kinda be a giveaway. Keep the name until he thinks it's relevant. Just checked, and he said Green. I can't figure out whether the pros and cons of releasing the name are worth it in that case. | ||
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jaj22
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@glurio: If you don't want to die, I suggest that you mason someone you think is active and strongly pro-town, and use instant messaging rather than TL PMs to give us as much information as possible. Also some scumreads here would be nice. | ||
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##vote Bill Murray | ||
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On January 23 2012 23:06 Bill Murray wrote: [center]The Setup: Notice how Foolishness trolled by running me for office? Yup. He also lied, by implying you were actually readable. Either that or he's scum. On January 23 2012 23:06 Bill Murray wrote: There was this guy, you see, names Foolishness. That's where this game starts. He was a good man, bold, and didn't want to wait for his role. He knew that role would be town, in all likelihood. What better to help the town, but to save a great lategame scumhunter? I am indeed that. A scumhunter. Anyways, back to Foolishness, he was confirmed town to me from day one, and not because of deductive reasoning. It was because he was too mafia to be mafia. Elect Bill Murray? Foolishness! I have a better theory. Foolishness is scum, and he knows you'll be an easy mislynch target and will grossly misuse your powers, so he gets you elected in hope of causing chaos in future. Paranoid rambling? Yeah. I've lost the plot. Meanwhile BrownBear shows up for the first time in four days and posts... a defence of Bill. This game has jumped the goddamn shark. | ||
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jaj22
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And what the hell is with all these players who think it's acceptable to do the absolute minimum modkill dodge? Since GGQ flipped green, apparently they're not even all mafia. I still want to kill them. | ||
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jaj22
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13231931 I don't think BC posted his log with Protactinium. Interesting that OpZ was the only mason who used PMs rather than realtime chat with BC. | ||
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jaj22
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13236558 Some evasive stuff from OpZ. Dodges questions on Bill Murray and L, doesn't volunteer any theories on nightkills. Does that "Quid pro quo, Clarice" thing but doesn't ask any questions himself. Not sure there's any reason for a townie to be that tight-lipped. | ||
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Kitaman: Reckons he's scum. Foolishness: Reckons he's scum. Protactinium: Reckons he's scum. Brownbear: Reckons he's unreadable (day 4), switched vote to him silently six hours later. OpZ: Reckoned he was plausible town-BM (late day 2). I think OpZ and Brownbear are scum anyway, so the most likely conclusion is that Bill Murray is scum too. | ||
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Not much information about Glurio there. He doesn't post much and gets lynched mostly for replacing Bill. Bill spams monstrously, but otherwise seems more... competent and rational than in this game. He also claims to be good at night actions. | ||
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On January 24 2012 11:13 jcarlsoniv wrote: The bodyguards themselves were not told that they are bodyguards. Goddamnit, I asked that ages ago On January 24 2012 07:14 BrownBear wrote: I should clarify. BM has outed me as a "bodyguard", and in the interest of not lying to town and hopefully cutting a little bit of the craziness out of this mess BM's created, I've decided to tell the truth - I am in fact a BG. I was hesitant at first for obvious reasons, but this is going to get talked to death over the course of the day and waste valuable time, and I just want what I can control to be cleared up, so I'm not "guilty by association" if BM happens to flip red. Brownbear caught in massive blatant scumslip? | ||
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It was seriously hard work keeping up with this game, particularly as I was spending a lot of time checking up meta. Because Bum and Nisani were at the bottom of the player list I barely got around to re-reading them despite having them marked as suspicious. I never managed to post one proper analysis, because L died before I finished one on him, and my BM & OpZ posts got pre-empted. By day 3 I strongly suspected that scum morale was awful which is why I was stressing recent inactivity as a scumtell. | ||
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This game really brought home to me that scumhunting isn't the only important thing as town, particularly when you already have excellent scumhunters giving you names. Quelling paranoia, explaining the actions of veterans, calming people down and directing them away from tunnelling implausible lynch candidates all contribute to a constructive town atmosphere. I'd have done twice as much of that except I was worried about spamming myself | ||
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On January 25 2012 01:07 syllogism wrote: Well it was hard to believe his team would let him jail lanaia. It really makes less sense from scum perspective than town Yeah, I thought the obvious choice there was to jail Ciryandor or Macpo to protect them from vigs, as saving the jails for later as town made sense. I guess Bill really didn't read the scum KP table. | ||
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Surprised mafia didn't shoot jayjay as he was clearly the sanest highly active poster and obviously town. | ||
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On January 25 2012 02:52 EchelonTee wrote: mm yeah my play wasn't very pro town so I was surprised I wasn't under more suspicion. There were plenty of worse town players out there. Personally I had you down as town for your 50 minute flop on Sandroba from strong scum to town. I couldn't imagine a scum player doing that, regardless of Sandroba's alignment. | ||
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On January 25 2012 07:17 Ver wrote: Missed this earlier but pretty lol. After incog hands the town every mafia its killed and flips detective (even if he is noob dt), he gives a 3/3 mafia list and a bunch of innocents correctly and is immediately double shot afterwards. Instead of just listening to him, town proceeds to ignore it and focus on wild conspiracy theories while the mafia was trying to lynch its own players lol. I thought I should probably try to break that up but we were lynching Bill anyway and I was kinda enjoying the conspiracy theories On January 25 2012 07:17 Ver wrote: But your posts were very pro town and I can't conceive how people thought you were suspicious. Jumping straight into a case like that just didn't look anything like what I've seen before from Hiro, although I don't think I've seen his more recent games. I immediately marked him down as DT or scumcoached. | ||
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jaj22
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I didn't have any significant doubt about Hiro's claim because it made complete sense and scum seemed too disorganised to cook up anything that plausible except by blind luck. | ||
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