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On January 12 2012 22:06 supersoft wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 21:58 Toadesstern wrote:On January 12 2012 21:36 syllogism wrote:
I fear this game is going to have 20+ players who don't have enough time and/or will to even establish their innocence to some degree and all the good players who roll town will get shot within a day or two. Elections should be interesting though. yeah that's what I'm scared off too. Gogo lucky dice give me a mafia role! :p being scum is incredibly boring. i hope i roll medic or vet
idk man. I've got town twice so far, thought I played both games pretty decent and lost them. Next thing that happens is 2 games mafia in a row which turns out to be 2 wins although I played pretty poorly in general. Oh and that 80 player thing were rolling town was pretty much an insta-lose.
Rolling town is the first step to failure in these times 
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so join this game in improve this situation!
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On January 12 2012 23:28 Mattchew wrote:over
I'd say slightly below. Something like 5, maybe 6
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yeah thanks a lot. Now that I know how awesome a role can be I'm going to be really dissapointed once I see my "you're a vanilla townie" pm
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slardar was #51 and now we got 2 outs
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/confirm and will now try to catch my train to get home. future-Toad will read later on when sobar and at home.
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On January 13 2012 20:07 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 19:46 Erandorr wrote:On January 13 2012 19:18 wherebugsgo wrote:On January 13 2012 18:34 Palmar wrote:
I have no intentions of running for mayor or caring much about the mayor elections. I'm probably going to be voting VisceraEyes, depending on how dumb he will be through the day. lynch Palmar for this please lynch WBG for this please. alright, need to sleep after this. However, minimal reasoning follows: in every game I've ever played with Palmar that has a mayoral election, he has cared greatly about it. He has run for office. He has run strongly. The exception is PYP:I, where he was just smurfing (so that's understandable) but he still cared who got elected. In this game, he's doing his standard scum shit. I.E. being bad. Kill him. Also Erandorr if you continue to be worthless I'd probably consider killing you too.
ok I'm back and I've scrolled through the pages looking at the pictures ( :p ) and found that one post as well. I got to agree with wbg here. There's basicly two options imo.
1) Palmar is mafia and doesn't care about the thread
2) Palmar is doing another trick to get something happening.
Neither do I like option 1 nor do I like option 2 given how that turned out last game. Take into consideration I really only just scrolled through very fast and I found that strange as well. I'm only starting to catch up right now and will probably post something about it in a couple of hours.
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am I the only one who thinks BC's campaign is a little weird? I'm reading page 25 right now and I can't stop thinking about it. It feels off for some reason imo.
I can't really put it down to something but although he said he's going to be accountable and vocal it doesn't feel like like townie-BC from the 80 player game.
I voted him back than because I thought he's townie in that game and a lot of people said it's too dangerous to vote him because it's an instant-lose if he's scum. He answered a lot he made reasonable posts and everything he posted looked townish while I got the feeling he's trying to pretend to be town this game.
Just take the part about foolishness for example. Sure foolishness is weird and someone has to point that out alright but I don't like that part at all:
I will question, analyze and call out all those who play in what I view as bad town/mafia like. (I have already done this with foolishness, he knows better).
Sounds like "hey guys, see this? I am totally town! I put some effort in this and got pro-town things rolling". Does he really have to point out he's doing good? I'd like people to judge him on what he's doing themselves.
Could be nothing at all but as mentioned I got a weird feeling when reading his posts and to me it's nothing like the last game I saw him play.
Other than that: Still on page 25, still reading, still don't like palmar's post.
However I actually like VE's post a lot but doubt that he's going to be mayor. He's putting some effort into this game and I don't think that that's his mafia-play at all.
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On January 13 2012 13:50 kitaman27 wrote:
I'm not a big fan of directing blues, so I won't ramble on how medics should protect vets or how vigs should save their shot on night one.
the fuck is that supposed to be? Is that on purpose for some reason?
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On January 14 2012 00:20 Macpo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 23:55 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
So, I woke up, ate a couple of eggos and read the thread. I'm going to school soon, so this will be brief.
Potential Lynch Candidates:
Palmar is easy to read as scum, so we should have a decent idea of his alignment by the end of the day, based on his posting and attitude.
Of the other mayoral candidates, I don't likes bumatlarge's mayoral post, which is less about why he should be mayor, or how we should play, and more about a list of advice for blues. I get the feeling that he's actually going to drop out of the election before the end of day 1. I also don't like Cyber's posting in general, but I'd probably need to elaborate, and I can't do that right now.
Who I'm voting for:
The point of the no-campaign campaign, is that you can't hold anyone to anything they say as part of a mayoral campaign. The only promise a mayor can really make and keep, is who they're going to lynch. However, by the time they can actually prove that they'll hold their promise, they're already mayor, and therefore already have the power to do whatever they want.
So, my plan is to just play the game, with a secondary focus on the mayoral election. My vote will go on the person who I think is actually playing the game, and who I think is town. I'm not going to vote for the person who made the most promises he can't be held accountable for until he's actually the mayor, or whoever put the most bold green text and pictures in their campaign, and neither should you. Right now, it's likely to go on BC, depending on how he continues to post, and if I like what I see and get a town vibe from him. I'm not at that point yet, however. Hey Mr Wiggles, just a short question : how are you so sure that palmar is scum? palmar sounded a bit agressive, but saying he is easy to read? (I am not asking this with an agressive suspicious tone, just trying to figure things out) Also, what is it in BCs posts that makes you feel he is trustworthy? Thanks! That will help me make my mind.
he did not say he's sure that palmar is scum. He said palmar is easy to read and if he really is scum we will know soon enough.
Palmar is the kind of guy that puts a lot of effort into games when town and only very little effort into games he rolled mafia.
Last game he even said he isn't reading the thread as mafia once the game was over.
However, 2 games ago (the annul thing) he wanted to chill a bit and tried playing with little effort. Of course he had to get serious after everyone got suspicious of him after that big dayvig thing.
I'm not sure what he's up to right now. Might be a 2nd attempt to chill a bit, might be scum, might be a trick and at this point it's pretty wifom to ask which of those it might be. But yeah it's not exactly what he usually does as a townie.
I'd also like to know why people like BC so much this game. As mentioned last election-game everyone was like "nooo don't vote for BC. It's way too dangerous if he's mafia" when I said I might vote for him and now it's just fine?
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On January 14 2012 00:36 rgTheSchworz wrote:
I will not edit ANY further posts .Sorry TL mafia for my newbie mistake.
if you spelled something wrong and it's so bad that you think people won't get what you tried to say just quote yourself, hightlight what was wrong in your initial post (within your quote of course) somehow (like a [b] tag or whatever) and copy&past the corected thing right beneath your quote.
Happens all the time to us not-native english speakers and as long as you deal with it by making another post it's fine. Noone cared about double or trippleposts here as long as you're not doing that on purpose.
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On January 14 2012 01:44 Chaosquo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 01:32 Palmar wrote:On January 14 2012 01:27 Chaosquo wrote:
a) you are mafia and dont care about the game Prove it. I was just commenting on your playstyle. I was just following the meta on you (town=vocal, scum=lurking), but seeing as you were quite active as "scum" in resistance, I retract my statement. But still posting one-liners is not helping much, no?
it's not about the amound he posts but about what he posts. What he does so far is just not what townie palmar usually does.
However, townie palmar also scares people to dayvig them to get information which turns out to get townies killed.
So I still don't know if he's just mafia or trying to troll/chill a game.
And he wasn't active at all in resistance. Not as active as a townie palmar would have been imo. Town was losing and he did nothing. Remember what he did the game before that when he really was town? Town was losing, he figured a mafia out and fought to get people voting annul and finally was raging mad for knowing a mafia but not being able to do a thing about it.
Nothing like that happened in resistance.
It's still too early to say what the reason for his behavior is but it's odd for sure and it comes down to if he really wants to chill this game or if he does that for another reason.
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On January 14 2012 02:04 Kurumi wrote:
TheSchowrz, we never point out blue claims because its helps mafia more than town >_> Besides, that's not a blue claim. That's just ego.
I don't see a problem with that at all. If someone claims blue so boldy that I am able to see it a horde of mafia players who are able to communicate is able to see that as well.
Obvisously the best case scenario is to not blue claim in the first place.
But yeah it's not a blue claim. It's more like "I am good at finding scum, protect me for a couple days and I will have this shit figured out".
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okay what's this fuss about bill murray? Why do people want him to be mayor? That guy is just a big null read for me and I have no idea how you're able to tell his alignment. Care to explain?
@BC on what he said about palmar: Yeah that's exactly what I thought, however don't you think palmar is better than that?
Sure he does not care about town when he's scum but do you really think he'd post what you quoted as a mafia?
It's just so over the top scummy that I think it's another trick of his. Like suggesting a rnd vote in whatever the game was called. Everyone was calling him out and everyone thinks that's scummy as hell because it is.
I somehow got the feeling he did that on purpose.
The first thing you quoted is just incredbile off. And yet he did a 2nd post like that saying he'll decide what he's about to do based on someone else being dumb or not. Again, that's just an overkill and I can't imagine him posting that without a reason at all.
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I'd like to hear more from candidates about who they think might be scummy. Keep it comming, everyone.
I won't vote someone who is not telling me who he thinks is scummy. Having a single guy the candidates are suspicious of is a start but I'd idealy have a bunch of names (like 3?).
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On January 14 2012 03:33 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 00:53 kingjames01 wrote:
Third, you're actually agreeing with me in essence. I'm saying that if they sneak in a Bodyguard, it will be risky to take out the elected officials. However, to make it harder for them, they should be revealed from the beginning. What if both elected officials are killed and we have 0 clue as to who the Bodyguards were? Are you okay with that risk?
Finally, are you stating for the record that if you were elected, you would not reveal your Bodyguards?
[...] [1.] Several people have passed on my campaign because of my comment on my town play, explaining that there are other better alternatives. It is uncomfortable to talk about how great oneself is, but I take that comment back. I've carried town in multiple games, gotten night 1/2 hit in three of the last four, and have been as consistent with my reads in recent games as any player: bugs/role (couples), GM/Caller (PYPI), foolishness/chaos/palmar (PTP), majority of scum team (XXXVIII/HP). I'm not as wordy as Meapak or as aggressive as BC, but I think my town results are just as good. [/1.] [...] [2.] Someone asked me earlier what I would base the lynch on. It would be someone who is talking about neutral topics, summarizing others opinions, or attempting to blend in. On day one, I think its far easy to find someone who isn't posting with town motives, than it is to find someone posting with scum motives. Jayjay's remarks on Echelon potential forced post was nice considering I was thinking the same thing. I'm not willing to pass off Foolishness's BM post as "town, because no mafia would ever do it". Slardar shouldn't be allowed to get away with his opening post and d3's BM policy lynch is weak. [/2.]
1) Awesome. When are you going to start doing so this game?
2) Don't you think it's incredible easy to look protown on d1 as a mafia as well? You actually play protown a lot on d1 without hurting your team if you're mafia because there's so little information d1. I'm just saying that because he had that the last couple of games when radfield thought I am town and even said I'm the most likely townie in the game.
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+ Show Spoiler +On January 14 2012 03:32 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
The Day 1 Important Discussion Post #1
Read this post fully before posting. It is something that everyone must read, and that everyone must comment on
That is right friends, this post as I am writing it is near one of the most important posts of this game day. You are going to ask? Why BC? Simple. I am about to do something that will cause people to yell and scream at me. I am roleclaiming.
I am mason
Note what I have done?
[1]
I have now put myself from the statistical chance of flipping a town aligned role of 80%ish and lowered it to a solid 50%.
I am now either 50% red or 50% blue.[/1.]
I am doing this for a few reasons.
[2]
1) in this game there could exist masons on both sides of the equation. As such dealing with them early is key as they work behind the scenes of the game. [/2]
[3]
2) it is a confirmable role, stress this point, ROLE. I can confirm my role at the beginning of a day cycle as opposed to at the end of a day cycle [/3]
3) I am being transparent. By giving this information now, reading me becomes far easier. There will never be the "is he blue trying to breadcrumb etc..?"
[4]
4) goes along with 3, however it outs one of the masons now. It stops the discussion later of people discussing all the people who are masons and who is believable late game whereas we can cover at least one of them now [/4]
This also sets the town up in a very advantageous way. Why you ask?
I am elected and now town knowingly knows I am active in pms.
I am not elected and not auto lynched by mayor and same information is known.
[5]
It also forces the mafia to deal with me as they have no idea what I am doing in pm land. Do they try and kill who I am talking to? Do they use their own masons and attempt to find out what I have said, etc....[/5]
This I feel is the most advantageous day 1 use of my ability. I have already used my mason use for the day and will say who I used it on after this post in the nearish future. I am leaving who it is out as the purpose is to generate discussion on my claim, not on who I chose to mason to. As to detail of why I did this aside from the general points I made? Everyone will have an opinion on this claim. Some good, some bad. People will have to have an opinion on this subject however. EVERYONE will have an opinion. Do not just post "wtf bc you dumb fuck why would you do this". This is a debate about me specifically being a mason and if I should be elected, not elected and lynched, or not elected and left for the mafia to deal with me.
All vets, all new players, all semi experienced players will have an opinion and it is needed. Anyone who fails to properly contribute on this matter. I have thought this claim out and realize that generally claiming day 1 is bad, however I feel at least with this mechanic and how it could be abused it should be discussed (especially with a high profile player such as myself possessing it) now and not later.
On the most important note that this post will do however is generate serious discussion. How do you all wish to proceed with a mason claim? Specifically my mason claim?
1) That's obviously bullshit. The chances to win lottery aren't 50% because you either win or you don't... but I see what you want to tell us
2) why?
3) no it's not. You're masoning someone. That someone is going to tell us if you masoned him. If you are a mafia you could tell us you masoned a mafiabuddy and of course your buddy will tell everyone you pm'ed him.
4) I don't realy care about what's going to happen with discussion later on if whatever might happen. I want to get a town mayor right now and for that reason I'd much rather see things tell give me something on your alignment than something that might or might not improve future-world
5) I'm pretty sure mafia will have to deal with you no matter what. That is if you're town. It's not like mafia is going not kill you because they think you might be a green instead of a blue and therefor you're no threat to them.
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On January 14 2012 04:02 EchelonTee wrote:
@jay, it was a posting mistake, that would be a pretty sorry way to try and get town credit. I have spreadsheets and stuff, which is where it came from. its not good practice imo to post tells without substantiation, thus I would've rather not posted that tidbit. And what's with the -mafia tag, is that just a dig at my post?
I don't like foolishness but that doesn't mean bm is bad. will return to this again later.
Current opinion on BC: wouldn't it have been better to get elected then mason one of your bodyguards? To get a tell on them? You already had a good shot at getting elected... I don't see as this scum though, more like a weird gambit.
Posted from phone, will post more later.
why do you have tags in your notes? Am I the only one not having tags in my notes on d1 after just a couple of hours?
Why are you certain that wiggles is a townie enough to give him a townie tag in your notes?
See my in my notes if I got a leaning towards town it's going to be something like "probably town" along with some reasons because it's a guess at this time. Yeah I think my guess might be right but it's still just a guess. How do you know he's a townie?
That just looks strange. However I don't know if you are going to make notes as a mafia either. I don't think you're going to put that much effort into a play when the thread is not as important to you because you rolled mafia. But who know.
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On January 14 2012 04:15 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 03:58 VisceraEyes wrote:
BC: Well, obviously you're no GF this game, because you claimed a confirmable role. Unless I'm mistaken, scum can't be mason AND GF, yes? DT checks will be accurate on you...so there's that. Confirming your alignment, in my opinion, should be paramount because I find it EXTREMELY likely that you would have elected to be mason on the scum team (for reasons that should be obvious to you and several others.)
What's your plan on confirming your role? Are you going to out who you've masoned with? Are you going to let them do it at their own pace?
I will out my first mason shortly, I want the debate to however move towards how to deal with masons as a whole. I say this because you know from experience with me just how subtle a touch can be needed to manipulate/confuse someone. A mafia mason will have the experience of a team in manipulation whereas a town member has their own ability to run with. Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 04:01 Toadesstern wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 14 2012 03:32 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
The Day 1 Important Discussion Post #1
Read this post fully before posting. It is something that everyone must read, and that everyone must comment on
That is right friends, this post as I am writing it is near one of the most important posts of this game day. You are going to ask? Why BC? Simple. I am about to do something that will cause people to yell and scream at me. I am roleclaiming.
I am mason
Note what I have done?
[1]
I have now put myself from the statistical chance of flipping a town aligned role of 80%ish and lowered it to a solid 50%.
I am now either 50% red or 50% blue.[/1.]
I am doing this for a few reasons.
[2]
1) in this game there could exist masons on both sides of the equation. As such dealing with them early is key as they work behind the scenes of the game. [/2]
[3]
2) it is a confirmable role, stress this point, ROLE. I can confirm my role at the beginning of a day cycle as opposed to at the end of a day cycle [/3]
3) I am being transparent. By giving this information now, reading me becomes far easier. There will never be the "is he blue trying to breadcrumb etc..?"
[4]
4) goes along with 3, however it outs one of the masons now. It stops the discussion later of people discussing all the people who are masons and who is believable late game whereas we can cover at least one of them now [/4]
This also sets the town up in a very advantageous way. Why you ask?
I am elected and now town knowingly knows I am active in pms.
I am not elected and not auto lynched by mayor and same information is known.
[5]
It also forces the mafia to deal with me as they have no idea what I am doing in pm land. Do they try and kill who I am talking to? Do they use their own masons and attempt to find out what I have said, etc....[/5]
This I feel is the most advantageous day 1 use of my ability. I have already used my mason use for the day and will say who I used it on after this post in the nearish future. I am leaving who it is out as the purpose is to generate discussion on my claim, not on who I chose to mason to. As to detail of why I did this aside from the general points I made? Everyone will have an opinion on this claim. Some good, some bad. People will have to have an opinion on this subject however. EVERYONE will have an opinion. Do not just post "wtf bc you dumb fuck why would you do this". This is a debate about me specifically being a mason and if I should be elected, not elected and lynched, or not elected and left for the mafia to deal with me.
All vets, all new players, all semi experienced players will have an opinion and it is needed. Anyone who fails to properly contribute on this matter. I have thought this claim out and realize that generally claiming day 1 is bad, however I feel at least with this mechanic and how it could be abused it should be discussed (especially with a high profile player such as myself possessing it) now and not later.
On the most important note that this post will do however is generate serious discussion. How do you all wish to proceed with a mason claim? Specifically my mason claim?
1) That's obviously bullshit. The chances to win lottery aren't 50% because you either win or you don't... but I see what you want to tell us 2) why? 3) no it's not. You're masoning someone. That someone is going to tell us if you masoned him. If you are a mafia you could tell us you masoned a mafiabuddy and of course your buddy will tell everyone you pm'ed him. 4) I don't realy care about what's going to happen with discussion later on if whatever might happen. I want to get a town mayor right now and for that reason I'd much rather see things tell give me something on your alignment than something that might or might not improve future-world 5) I'm pretty sure mafia will have to deal with you no matter what. That is if you're town. It's not like mafia is going not kill you because they think you might be a green instead of a blue and therefor you're no threat to them. Incorrect for you good sir. my role unlike anyone elses is confirmable. However my role is able to appear on both town and mafia sides thus rather than claiming "i am townie" and having the 80ish% chance of being one of the townie i am now firmly 50/50. My role is confirmable, my alignment isn't. You can clearly say "you were either 1 or the other before" however I have removed fake claiming almost entirely. Mafia do not benefit from me fake claiming this, nor do town. as for how I can confirm my role at the start? I mason at the beginning of a cycle not the end. As for saying its not confirmable? If i am a generic red and claim mason my mafia buddy says i masoned him. I die flip mafia goon he fucking dies. The only people who in their right mind would claim mason, are mason. As for also saying im not transparent? You know my role, I am even trying to discuss the role itself. If you do not care about the possible damages of a mafia mason late game and only care about the now then you are not playing in the best interests of this town. You must always look ahead. If there are roles that could potentially fuck town two days from now that wouldn't have if we talked about them today then we talk about it today. Period. as for mafia dealing with me? Say for arguments sake, there are 4 masons and 1 is red. I don't get elected and am not lynched by mayor. Mafia now has the option of killing me and thus reducing the number of people they can hide amongst and masons are confirmable. By claiming, town will always be analyzing me and determining if i am red or blue and choose to off me based on it. Mafia have the risk of killing me early and thus potentially outing one of their own early on or leaving me alone and hope the town ignores me. The longer I live the more benefit i am to the town and if i die by mafia shot I out one of their own slightly faster. Now. How do people wish to deal with masons as a whole? Do all discussions made get posted in thread? Do we opt to not talk to people who mason you, etc... This is an important matter, move just passed my personal claim and look at the role as a whole. Here is a link to a thread where masons were discussed before to get an idea why I think its important to discuss. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=278946the situation proposed there is obviously different from this game but the important none the less.
The part about what I called 1) was what you said in your example:
If there are 4 masons and only one is red the chances are not 50/50. If we don't have the exact same amount of blue roles it's not going to be 50/50. But that's just useless chat so I'll leave it with that because it's just not important at all imo.
About your example what is going to happen if you're red and ask a buddy to help out. If this thing of yours works out and people believe you you won't be lynched. Neither will scum kill you because you are a mafia yourself in that scenario. Even if there's a rampaging vigi you're safe due to your bodyguards if you're elected.
The guy you masoned probably is someone you think is town I guess? Why should he be lynched and same applies to mafia here: Mafia won't shoot that if you are mafia.
About late game: I've never seen masions in action. I think they look neat but I can't judge how good they are. That's why I asked "why" because I did not think we have to talk about masons because I did not think they're that scary. That was more of an "explain pls".
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On January 14 2012 04:26 supersoft wrote:
hey, toadesstern, can you link me a game where you were town? I know your scummeta. It's talking a lot with no content. You do that right now.
alread told you I do talk a lot as both town and mafia but yeah I'll look those 2 games up (the 80 player thing does not count, that game was gay )
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EPT
