EPTI wanna play! ^_^
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GMarshal
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I wanna play! ^_^ | ||
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GMarshal
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On June 26 2011 11:05 Navillus wrote: /in and I don't know I think that killing the lynch target to try to get the second highest voted person adds an interesting dynamic. Too broken for mafia, they'll just save a kill for right before lynch time and aim it at the top votegetter if he isn't scum. That kind of 6 hour limitation is a must have IMO | ||
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GMarshal
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Why?  | ||
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On June 26 2011 13:10 Sinani201 wrote: We've done it for a very long time. I made my account on TL first, and I made Sinani201 accounts before him on various forums. I'll consider changing my name. Though I came first, he has more than 500 posts and has built up a reputation, while I sort of lurk around. Until then, you can either call me 201 or Daniel. Daniel works. ^_^ I'm probably going to get you two confused at some point, so bear with me. | ||
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GMarshal
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If you get a gun, I want to be a DT. So I can die an early death. | ||
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GMarshal
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On June 28 2011 10:43 Cthsazsa wrote: Not funny ): I laughed ^_^ | ||
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GMarshal
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![[image loading]](http://cdn1.staztic.com/screenshots/death-scythe-live-wallpaper-13-1.jpg) Lets get this show on the road then. Activity is not going to create itself, and we need to make sure we have a working game. Basically allow me to start with this little tidbit. Lurkers, this is your first and final warning. I will *not* allow you to lurk. If you aren't going to be active you are *very* quickly not going to be alive anymore. Consider it my... promise... to you. gtrsrs. Hi. Pull shit like you did in SNMMIV, where you essentially sabotaged the town by creating a horrible day 1 atmosphere and I will absolutely *relish* your death. I don't want to kill you, but if you threaten this towns chances at victory I will. Players who want to be trolls. Same applies to you, I will not allow it, period, not happening, not on my watch. We will win this, we will kill scum, and no one is going to keep that from happening as long as I have the power to impede it. Any questions? | ||
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GMarshal
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On June 28 2011 11:57 youngminii wrote: Good post GMarshal, I wasn't aware scum were targeting lurkers too this game. It's almost as if they're a 3rd party faction. I like how you make a giant warning against lurkers when the game itself is designed to punish them. Sure it is, townies are often lurkers. And it would not be the first time we've landed in a lylo situation with more lurkers than is healthy. Yes the lurkerchecks punish scum lurkers, some, but town lurkers are a *huge* hindrance, and what do they care if they get DTed? | ||
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On June 28 2011 12:06 Hyaach wrote: Since every action is time based, I'm against blues using the KP as and when they like. Its more likely to hit a townie early in the game counting the ratio. But then again who doesn't like killing. So, how do you propose to "direct" the blues? I mean the alternative is exactly what you are against, so you must have a proposition as to how to keep them from using them "when and how" they like. I'm personally fine with blues using their own discretion. | ||
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GMarshal
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On June 28 2011 12:17 Hyaach wrote: Since the lurker list comes after day 2. And KP are time base, i propose a buffer time of probably 1 hour? Since GM already came out soft-claiming a role with KP. we can use him to pressure lurkers. Post now and die in 1 hour. I'm not against killing, its just lurk and be dead is too strong an approach. But i agree a lurking townie is as good as a scum. I haven't claimed any KP. Don't jump to assumptions, its not healthy ^_^ I won't confirm or deny anything about my role. Please cease *discussing* my role, it will get you nowhere and will not help us find mafia. | ||
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GMarshal
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On June 28 2011 12:17 Hyaach wrote: Since the lurker list comes after day 2. And KP are time base, i propose a buffer time of probably 1 hour? Since GM already came out soft-claiming a role with KP. we can use him to pressure lurkers. Post now and die in 1 hour. I'm not against killing, its just lurk and be dead is too strong an approach. But i agree a lurking townie is as good as a scum. Also please answer my question you said you don't want blues acting on their own discretion, how *do* you want them to act? Or were you talking exclusively about roles with KP? | ||
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GMarshal
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On June 28 2011 12:21 Sinani201 wrote: You're already voting for me? First off, I am not Sinani201. I'm Nisani201. Second of all, if you want me to make a post, you could have asked nicely. I don't have anything to contribute yet. I'm reading every single post, and when I feel like I have enough information, I will contribute. Hi Nisani201. So, I've never played with you before. What if any is your mafia experience? As a matter of fact, if you are new, I'd like you to mention your mafia experience if any in your first post in the thread. I won't consider it a contribution, but its something I would like to know, so I can keep it in mind as I go over your posts. | ||
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GMarshal
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On June 28 2011 12:27 youngminii wrote: I respectfully disagree with your philosophy of not being aggressive against anyone. More pressure = more slip ups, that's the point. Just don't take it personally and bandwagon it etc. And I disagree with you. As I see it, relentless, aggressive pressure is how you get mafia to slip up. Throwing a bunch of FoS' around doesn't intimidate mafia (as they aren't going to be killed by one vote) and only serves to muddle the waters. Its not a *terrible* way to start, as long as you move out of it sooner rather than later. Its much like the random voting phase some players advocate, its not awful if used correctly, but used incorrectly it lets scum get away with murder and kills the town atmosphere, by miring it in doubt and suspicion. I don't mind your aggression, but I think it would be more effective if you focused on one person for a few hours, rather than calling a bunch of people scummy over a few minutes. You are of course free to disregard my advice, but I feel like its a methodology you might consider, as I think its reasonably suited to your temperament. Remember though, the key is *pressure* there must be a threat of death involved to force the person to react. However you must get the information with enough time to stop the bandwagon if your pressure reveals his alignment to be town, rather than mafia, or simply results in no information either way. Its not easy, but a veteran such as yourself can most assuredly pull it off Thats how I would approach it in your place ^_^ | ||
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GMarshal
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On June 28 2011 12:43 LSB wrote: Can I make a plan that has people strategically placing themselves of the lurker list? I considered that as well LSB, I couldn't come up with a way to do it without the DTs claiming and being RBed though. What are your thoughts on how you would approach abusing the lurker list? | ||
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GMarshal
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On June 28 2011 12:48 sinani206 wrote: There's no reason to be discussing this. There is no chance that RoL will allow it. It's like cheating rule #7: Discussing this will spam up the thread. He might, he might not, I think it was an interesting idea at least. Still I agree that there isn't a point in discussing it until RoL decides either way, its just that plans that take advantage of different role/game mechanics intrigue me ^_^ | ||
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GMarshal
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On June 28 2011 13:22 chaos13 wrote: Would somebody mind assembling a list of the skilled/veteran players for myself and the others who are not familiar with all the names in the roster? A 'priority list', if you will, of players mafia are likely to kill first. Why? What goal is this list trying to achieve? What use do you intend to put it to? I mean if you give me a good justification I don't mind doing it, but it needs to have a purpose that helps the town, rather than cluttering space ^_^ | ||
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GMarshal
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On June 28 2011 13:24 Sinani201 wrote: From this, it seems like you are either trying to help the Mafia, or softclaiming medic. Or perhaps trying to help the medic. This is the kind of stuff you REFRAIN from posting. If you think someone is soft claiming medic or DT or accidentally let slip their role then you DO NOT point it out. The mafia might miss it, so its best if you don't call attention to it. By pointing it out you just painted a huge target on chaos13's back if he is town. | ||
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GMarshal
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On June 28 2011 13:30 chaos13 wrote: If 5/7 of the experienced veteran players are dead by day 3/4 and the new or intermediate players are starting to die instead, it's a good indication you've got mafia and should really start examining those player's posts. It's a tool I use in every game that is generally quite effective. Normally I would just make one and keep it to myself, but I don't know a lot of the names here or the meta that goes along with me, so I would appreciate some input from someone who does  A list for you then. Its split into three levels. People I know to be experienced or good, people who are not quite vets, but have played before and know what they are doing and people who are new/have few games that showcase good play. Vets 3. GMarshal (Hi!) 10. youngminii (long time player, usually very aggressive) 15. Jackal58 (endgame player, you are familiar with him, for those not familiar with him, in my experience he is not the best day1-2 player, but really excels when we hit day 5-6) 19. sandroba (read Sleeper Cell if you need a good reason why he is on here) 23. Palmar (In particular his scum play in SNMMII) 25. ~OpZ~ (oldtimer as well, I'm not aware of what his last notable game, because it predates me. I also lack meta on him) 26. LSB (A decent player, as town or scum he comes up with decent plans and tries to lead the town. Prone to powerplays as scum) 27. Mr. Wiggles (another excellent player, he makes very compelling organized posts, but often comes off as scummy even when town since he tends to rehash a lot of what people have said. He plays a better than average game as scum, see his win with Kavdragon in Insane Mafia 2) Mid-tier players 1. DropBear - played some really solid games and is a strong player overall. He has no showings of singlehandedly dominating however, he may be misplaced here and be a candidate for Vet status. 2. sinani206 - played a couple games, not awful, but lacking a solid game to make a judgment of off 5. Cthsazsa - active contributing newbie, a little too trusting and willing to take people at their word. Much potential, interested to see where he goes. (Oh and I keep accidentally thinking he is a girl. Sorry -__-) 7. Kenpachi - likes to lurk, is good with a gun, but I have yet to see him play a game where he takes a solid leadership position 8. Lanaia - only seen her play in Insane Mafia 2 where she had a decent showing. Caught on to Kav's BS when the rest of the town missed it. She is really experienced on IRC mafia. 12. hiro protagonist - played a couple of games, did decently, I lack meta on him, as I don't think I've been in a game with him before. 13. Mig -same deal as hiro, no meta from me, played a few games. 14. Rean - Played more than hiro and mig, has a tendency to lurk (if PTP is a basis to judge on). Makes good calls in confusing situations 17. chaos13 - played a bunch here and away from here, but I lack meta on him 18. Eiii - experienced player who both lacks self confidence and has a tendency to lurk hardcore. 22. VisceraEyes -as hiro. Played a few games, nothing spectacular IIRC 24. Vain - as VE. 30. Varpulis - had a couple solid games, nothing massive, but solid. Hates lurkers, so a man after my own heart new players (no meta on these, obviously) 4. gtrsrs 6. aprudds 9. Torqez 11. Hyaach 16. TheAwesomeAll 20. Navillus 21. Sinani201 28. syllogism 29. Drazerk Again, my limited meta knowledge on these players and relative rankings. Please no one take offense as these are IMO. This is where we finish discussing vet lists. The won't give anymore useful information and will allow others to fake contribute with useless lists. I posted this by request and it should NOT be considered a contribution, as scum can do this as easily as town.Again, no more vet lists | ||
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GMarshal
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To achieve this don't random FoS, treat even stupid ideas with respect (shoot them down, but theres no need to say "God you moron, you suck" just shoot it down) and behave in a way that makes people *want* to post and listen to what you have to say. Also that post you pointed out is also similar to my post in the first 4 min of Closed Casket Mafia . Its a stylistic choice, and I really like the pictures of the grim reaper (not to mention I have like 12 I had ready for CCM, but then I was killed... ;_;) . Plus I hate lurkers, and I needed a conversation starter, so I chose to talk about them. Any other questions? | ||
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On June 28 2011 14:36 VisceraEyes wrote: I enjoy how GMarshal included Palmar on the Vet list, yet his first game was my first game as well. Yes, he had a strong showing for Mafia that game...but in all honesty, scum won from an inactive town. I wonder what motivation GMarshal has putting a new player like Palmar (if you'd like to see an example of his 'stellar town play', may I direct you to PTP?) in the 'Vet' side of that list. He's certainly no vet as far as I'm concerned. I thought he played well, is that going to be a point of contention? Sure he fucked up in PTP, but he *did* nail me when I was happily leading the town to do my bidding. In fact without him being resurrected the town would have assuredly lost. Your opinions are your own, I made some opinionated calls on that list, which I am more than happy to defend. Fun fact, scum want to *avoid* being in the vet section of that list, as thats where the pressure is going to be when the vets start dying. Much like DB begged to be taken off the zodiac list in PTP, any mafia up there are now going to start second guessing their shots, as they don't want to expose themselves. | ||
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On June 28 2011 14:46 DropBear wrote: Ok thanks for clearing that up for me. Beating dead horses I can agree with, as with behaving like gentlemen and mud flinging. If you eliminate unjusitified OMGUS votes my entire town play just disappeared, I always just attack people who call me and other relative newcomers bad lol. I hadn't seen the Closed Casket game, fair enough. Get back to reaping sir! What do you think about the exchange between Henry VI and Edward I? I haven't read anything sinister into it, as I see it the Sinani twins are close friends, and to me it looks like casual banter/poking fun. It might be revealing later, when I have a stronger read on them, but as of right now I just see it as two pals fooling around. You've made your opinion of their exchange clear. What do you think of VisceraEyes being so upset at you being included as a "vet" in my list? Have you formed an opinion about ym yet, if so, what is it? | ||
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GMarshal
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On June 28 2011 14:54 VisceraEyes wrote: GM, the whole idea of you making a list like that is to discuss it. I'm not attacking you, so there isn't anything to defend. I disagreed with your choice and I made my opinion known. If you're gonna step up to bat, be ready to swing sir...that's all I'm sayin. If we as a town are going to follow you (don't you even pretend you're not bucking for town leadership at this point ), I for one want to make absolutely sure there's no ulterior motive behind the things you say. Call me paranoid, but I trusted BC in PTP and it bit me in the ass...in a big way. Didn't you kill BC in PTP? I'm happy to discuss the list, but clearly if I thought palmar deserved to be on there I'm going to defend my choice, thats *how* we discuss, you say "I disagree with ___ because of X Y and Z" and I say, "No you are mistaken because of A, F and M". So there is something to defend ^_^ As for town leadership, its a means to an end. I'm going to kill scum, that is the goal, to achieve that I need the town's help, so I'm willing to "lead" as long as its getting scum killed. Leadership is not a goal in and of itself, its a way to help us win. To kill scum, yes I need the rest of the town to be working together well. I don't care if I write the analysis that pegs scum or you do, or a newbie does, I care that we follow that analysis to a successful lynch. If you want to consider me a leader then you are welcome to, all I promise to do is make my opinions clear and do my very best to kill mafia, nothing more, nothing less. | ||
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Also Hi sand! Oh and YM, your answer to the question I asked DB made me giggle <3 | ||
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On June 28 2011 14:55 sandroba wrote: Okay, I'm going to go completely against everything that's been said so far. Mafia are not dumb. They are very likely NOT going to lurk in this game. People should NOT be shooting into the lurker list until later or only if this becomes a real problem. You guys can argue WIFOM all you want, but I'm willing to bet mafia won't find themselves in the lurker list any time soon. Also we shall not make any lists this game. We will discuss 2-3 players at a time and leave blues to act on their own. I shall start discussing YM. You pretty much started being agressive as always, but I feel after Mafia XLII you must have learned already that this is gonna lead us to endless confusion, no? My opinion is that you are abusing your town meta this game, throwing pointless flawed acusations like there's no tomorrow. Makes a lot of sense as scum trying to hide their colors doesn't it? Mafia may or may not lurk, new mafia have a tendency to lurk out of fear, this isn't a crackpot theory, its a fact. And lurkers only hurt town, I'm happy to see them dead, as they aren't helping and aren't analyzable. All they do is give mafia easy lynches, I'd rather see them shot early than worry about mafia pushing a lynch on one at LYLO. Basically town lurkers are as good as traitors, which means I have no regrets when they die. None. I don't agree with your accusation of YM, from reading another game of his where he was mafia (XXX maybe?) what I saw of his scum play showed a less aggressive, more subdued YM. I don't want to base much on meta, so I'm waiting to see how he handles himself before coming to a real decision, although based exclusively on meta considerations I would judge him to be town atm. | ||
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GMarshal
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On June 28 2011 15:23 VisceraEyes wrote: @GM At any rate, 201 is correct, Palmar DID /out before the game started. He'll either be Mod-killed or replaced before Day 2, I totally forgot. Aside from adding LSB to the vet list, which Wiggles already suggested, I have no problems with your list. :D NOW What do we do with it? We've pretty much unanimously decided that blues will be acting on their own with VERY limited guidance from the rest of town. Should we just go down the list and start asking people their opinions on each one? Or is that just something to look at once people start dying? Chaos13 asked for it as a reference for later in the game, and I decided it could be used for some discussion as well, but I think its best saved as a tool for later in the game/ a resource for newer players. Like medics who have no idea who is who may want to glance at it and pick from the vets to protect. It also puts pressure on us "vets" to post more/be active as if we don't *everyone* will know something is off. It should also make the mafia hesitant to fire into the top of the list, as its will put more pressure on the players there, and theres probably at least two mafia there. However I would wait for near the end of day 2 to look at it again, check who is left alive there, go over their posts and see what they are actually pushing. If only 2-3 are left then take a really, really close look at what their goals and contributions are. Its a little bit of wifom for the mafia, a resource for new players and a tool for later in the game. For now we should probably talk about something else, unless there is something about it in particular you want to talk about. So, which of the active posters so far strikes you as disrupting the town the most ? if you can't come up with one, which has the most vacuous/fluffy posts? | ||
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GMarshal
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On June 28 2011 15:33 sandroba wrote: @GM Okay, now you are just being silly. Considering this setup you know mafia won't lurk, because lurkers are at an extreme dissavantage regarding everything. If new mafia players lurk, I'm all fine and dandy with it, since our DTs can quickly confirm/nail them. They are unlikely to be chosen GF AND if I read the op correctly only one GF is possible this game. Despite me saying VIGS DO NOT SHOOT LURKERS UNTIL IT BECOMES A PROBLEM I'm sure people will do it and I guarantee you they will all flip town. Do not ecourage them. You are border line pushing mafia objetives now. All lurkers are traitors. They are lynch fodder for the mafia. I don't give a damn if they flip green, red or purple, they compromise the ability of the town to win. If you are on the lurker list you deserve to die. I will not allow traitors to hold our victory hostage. I'd much rather be at lylo with no lurkers than not at lylo with 25% of the town being inactive. I'm actually of the opinion that DTs shouldn't be using lurker checks, lurkers should just be exterminated plain and simple. This transcends this game, I'm sick and tired of town lurking and screwing me over. I'm establishing good meta for all the other games. You may disagree with me, but I predict that DT checks confirming lurkers is only going to encourage the lurkers to lurk more, I mean what incentive does a bored, confirmed townie have to contribute? Its not a mafia objective, its a preventive measure. When do we decide that the lurkers have "become a problem"? When we hit lylo and its already to late? Or when a Mafia fakeclaims a check on one of them at lylo and wins? I know you may disagree with me, but after seeing the town get raped in XLII I'm simply unwilling to show tolerance to lurkers. I want to shoot them so our DTs can actually assess *threats* with their checks. Its a controversial position, and I expect to take flack for it, but we have a bunch of lurker exclusive KP, we may as well use it. If I'm successful then the Lurker List will always be empty and there won't be an issue. Again, let me emphasize, if you say all lurkers are probably town, mafia will make sure to have at least one lurker. The rest of the lurkers are lynch fodder for any charismatic mafia who needs a mislynch. "worst" case scenario for mafia a dt has to claim to avoid a mislynch, or the lynch pusher falls under mild suspicion. Also I don't expect we have enough KP to *actually* exterminate the lurkers, I just want to terrorize the lurkers into being active contributing members. Feel free to disagree, but I feel like the mafia *want* the lurkers spared, so they can mislynch later. I for one have no issue killing them, and will shed no tears. | ||
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GMarshal
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 at LSB dyingHe was obviously town the moment he started proposing a plan to abuse dt roles. Scum would not usually be that ballsy. I won't conjecture as to what other reasons the mafia might have for killing him. And YM assuming RB is a far stretch. Just assume that the RB is still out there, any further conjecture is wifom | ||
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3 am is such a nice time of day | ||
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GMarshal
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On June 28 2011 16:06 VisceraEyes wrote: I almost said something about that GM, as you seem like the type to diversify your vocabulary. Who do YOU feel is disrupting town so far? Right now, I don't feel like anyone is disrupting per-se, YM's many fingers seem to have calmed down, which were something I felt was disruptive. However I have yet to notice anyone pushing a scum agenda, at least as far as active disruption goes. Fluffyness wise hiro's post on lurkers strikes me as being remarkably similar to mine. I am now going to sleep ^_^ I would take it as the essence of kindness if the mafia would be so considerate as to at least wait till I get up tomorrow to kill me. Oh, and at all the people who have yet to post: + Show Spoiler + Your Clock Is Ticking... ![[image loading]](http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100725192339/mk/images/3/3c/Summon_the_Reaper_by_Ironshod.jpg) | ||
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GMarshal
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On June 28 2011 16:14 sandroba wrote: OK, I'm very convinced GM is scum right now. The fact that LSB died is plain and simple. The moment he proposed his plan he was confirmed town, as no mafia would ever propose a plan like that. The reason I think he is mafia is because 1) He ninja'ed me and identified it, and as such we know he is capable of doing it (I don't think any other player realise this yet, amongst the active) 2) He claimed to have thought of the plan, but as scum he obviously did not mention it until LSB did. 3) He's pushing vigs to shoot lurkers, when clearly mafia won't be there. 4) YM is posting completely anti-town stuff about blues. Mafia still has 2 kp left so LOL at medics not protecting people today. Also RB doesn't do shit to vigilante. The fact that GM did not catch on this can only mean 1 of the 2: YM is also scum with GM or YM is tripping hard and GM knows he's town and must maintain his position earlier of YM being town to not rise any suspicion. Either way GM is scum. Sure thing. Please post a more coherent argument. Let me reply to what you have 1.) Duh, anyone with a braincell should have known LSB was town. 2.) I thought of a *similar* plan, but I couldn't (still can't) think of a way to make use of it without having DTs claim. I am against ousting blue roles. 3.) Yes I am. I made my case why, and you should understand it. Vigis have a lurker only KP, they might as well use it, no? All lurkers are traitors, by definition. Ace said it best in my first game, I think, kill scum, and those who will not help you kill scum (not an exact quote, but I don't feel like looking it up) 4.) He admitted to fucking up with the medic thing, because he thought scum had 1 kp. If I think someone is scum I call them out on it. I just think YM is playing poorly, but not necessarily scummy. remember what we said about bad plans? Hell I missed that he made a posts about medics till you pointed it out and I had to go back and check. I don't see your case, but if you bring up any new points I will gladly answer them, so far it seems to me that you are dead set on me being mafia for some reason. I won't appeal to meta, but my alignment should be evident by now. | ||
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On June 28 2011 16:21 sandroba wrote: EBWOP: by vigilante I mean veteran Depends on the host actually, I've played games where vets can be roleblocked. Lets ask, not that it matters, but I'll admit I'm curious now. Can veteran's additional life be broken by a roleblock | ||
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On June 28 2011 16:35 sandroba wrote: How so? They actually GAIN one check. They trade checking one active for checking 2 lurkers. Explain to me why checking an active player is better than 2 other player who in theory are hard to analyse due to lack of posts. @GM I'd like your reasoning on this aswel. There's only 1 GF. Why should we shoot on the lurker list instead of allowing DTs to check it? Isn't it infinetelly better to save vig lurker shots for later when they have a higher chance of hitting scum? I'm all for calling out people for lurking, but this setup makes it unlikely scum will be there. Ok, there are two possibilities I see. 1.) No mafia will lurk, in which case every lurker check is a waste of a check that will catch no mafia. Remember odds are DTs will die before revealing innocent checks, but will usually crumb/claim guilty checks. This means that every lurker check is wasting checks that could catch mafia. In this case shooting into the list is less than optimal, although it forces activity. Remember the vigis have shots that can only be shot at lurkers, so its not like the DT check that is wasted, but rather this *only* affects lurkers. 2.) The mafia knows we are going to wifom lurkers, and probably ignore them since they are "all green" a one or two mafia will lurk amongst 4-5 townies. We'll hit lylo with all lurkers and since all lurkers are green, and no effort was put in motivating them into acting we probably lose. However if we shoot into the list 1.) Mafia will be too scared to lurk and 2.) townies will be motivated to actually do stuff to get off the list. I'm not saying we should devote all our resources to killing lurkers, only the lurker exclusive KP vigis have, along with a comp-vigi shot or two. Yes, theres a better than even chance the mafia will not risk having lurkers, but its a risk I'm willing to take to ensure that the mafia cannot lurk to victory. Basically I think DTs are to strong to waste on lurkers, and I feel like shooting lurkers will resolve that issue better without wasting town resources. Does this make my stance clearer to you? | ||
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GMarshal
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On June 28 2011 16:40 TheAwesomeAll wrote: No surprise, the thread is being spammed up with nothing but technical issues "lets create a pro town atmosphere" and references to old mafia games. Dont spent any more posts on the new interesting format!~ New formats in general favor scum because they are allowed to talk about technical issues the first day, town shoots some noob/lurker and everyone is happy. The lurker mechanism is just a call to spam, but GMarshal is really pushing it. Your clock is ticking, cute. This is the one of the few good posts made so far: So instead of another technical issue or something im going to point the first FoS in the game. The most spammy player in the game: yeah... talking about lurkers like his live depends on it, i would love it if people stopped mentioning other games without explanation. The lurker mechanism is soooooo interesting. And to top it all of, something that is so ridiculously safe to post a list. A No Information List to be exact. You know the thing noob scum (like me in XL) post. Safe free town cred. please please please stop the spam The other guy im keeping an eye on is GMarshal. /applause. You just shot down all town discussion and missed the major point of the lurker discussion, which is to force people to take stances. For example YM seems to be pretty much in agreement with me, while sand is in opposition, from sand's strong stance and willingness to fight for the spotlight its easy to see he dosn't care if people focus on him, a town trait. You miss this because you are too busy dismissing it as "spam". I agree that hiro has yet to post anything of substance, yet after bashing talking about a "pro-town atmosphere" you go on to quote a post about the pro-town atmosphere as being one of the best. I notice you don't actually accuse hiro of being scum though. Care to commit with your vote? Also the cynical tone is typical of mafia players. Its a distancing mechanism, since you feel isolated and threatened. Nice light FoS on me without substance too. I like how you manage to both belittle all discussion AND start smearing doubt around. This post alone *reeks* of being mafia. I'm not going to be wishywashy about it either. ##Vote: TheAwesomeAll Quick, expand your FoS on hiro into something larger, something NOT spammy Mr. "This town is all spam" | ||
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On June 28 2011 16:47 TheAwesomeAll wrote: Me as a humble humble noob town see it as my only goal to kill scum, So vigis PLEASE kill lurkers that smell like scum, but dont get to exited. Mafia is spamming the thread up right now, since mafia isnt stupid. They will make sure that every anti lurker action will work in their advantage. Vigis please be aware of this and dont use your power just because you can, and Definetly not because GM tells you to. Also GM youre spamming the technical issues up like no tomorrow, also the lists. Why the lists GM? Who wants to know the more experienced players i ask you? Town can judge for themself you know who could use a list of good players before they got the chance to voice their opinion? scum chaos asked, I provided, fulfilling a simple request with benefits I outlined already is scummy? Let me reiterate why they are good. For the third or so time. 1.) They are a resource for later in the game. If all the vets but two are dead those should be scrutinized. 2.) It makes the mafia wifom about shooting there as it places pressure on the *other* vets. 3.) Its a decent resource for players who have no idea of who is who. 4.) Provided some immediate discussion Your last question makes no sense to me, please re-write it in a form I can understand. If what you are saying is that it benefits mafia then you fail to grasp that the mafia 100% has at least one vet, for balance purposes, they already know that information, the only people who don't are newbie greens and blues. Hint mafia *isn't* spamming, they are making simple posts that aren't quite lurking, but that serve no purpose, fluffy posts to be clear. No duh vigis should shoot scummier lurkers, but lurkers by DEFENITION have little to base reads on, which is why they are being shot in the first place. How do you judge how "scummy" someone with 5 posts is? Anything else? ^_^ | ||
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GMarshal
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On June 28 2011 16:47 TheAwesomeAll wrote: Me as a humble humble noob town see it as my only goal to kill scum, So vigis PLEASE kill lurkers that smell like scum, but dont get to exited. Mafia is spamming the thread up right now, since mafia isnt stupid. They will make sure that every anti lurker action will work in their advantage. Vigis please be aware of this and dont use your power just because you can, and Definetly not because GM tells you to. Also GM youre spamming the technical issues up like no tomorrow, also the lists. Why the lists GM? Who wants to know the more experienced players i ask you? Town can judge for themself you know who could use a list of good players before they got the chance to voice their opinion? scum chaos asked, I provided, fulfilling a simple request with benefits I outlined already is scummy? Let me reiterate why they are good. For the third or so time. 1.) They are a resource for later in the game. If all the vets but two are dead those should be scrutinized. 2.) It makes the mafia wifom about shooting there as it places pressure on the *other* vets. 3.) Its a decent resource for players who have no idea of who is who. 4.) Provided some immediate discussion Your last question makes no sense to me, please re-write it in a form I can understand. If what you are saying is that it benefits mafia then you fail to grasp that the mafia 100% has at least one vet, for balance purposes, they already know that information, the only people who don't are newbie greens and blues. Hint mafia *isn't* spamming, they are making simple posts that aren't quite lurking, but that serve no purpose, fluffy posts to be clear. No duh vigis should shoot scummier lurkers, but lurkers by DEFENITION have little to base reads on, which is why they are being shot in the first place. How do you judge how "scummy" someone with 5 posts is? Anything else? ^_^ | ||
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On June 28 2011 16:56 TheAwesomeAll wrote: hmm GMs last post is actually pretty good, however since your afraid of lylos let me paint one for you: 2 lurking townies 1 active townie 1 lurking maffia and 1 active . sounds horrible right? If all the lurkers were killed mafia had already won that situation, lurking is bad, scare people all you want, But keep in mind that every shot townie will hurt us a LOT. Thats why advocating careless shooting is anti town, now youre no noob and probably now this. Thats why i think you are scummy Give it a good thought. + Show Spoiler + giving scary lylo situations isnt that usefull for the town either btw, just focus on lynching scum, since after all this theorycrafting, no blue would know where to shoot If you killed ONE lurker the others would be scared into posting ^_^ And I'll take lylo 8v5 or something like that with all active players over lylo at 3v1 with no active players any day. Trust me, lurkers are a nightmare to read. Sure, focus on lynching scum, but give the lurkers a nice solid reason not to lurk. Bullets to the brain are as solid as reasons get. | ||
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On June 28 2011 17:08 TheAwesomeAll wrote: wow sorry GM did i step on some toes? Please expand more on that discussion, maybe i missed it, who are being accused, what valuable information did we gain? all i saw was spam spam spam, you know that town atmosphere of yours. Except talking about it, what did you do? did you give any points town should follow, did you create any discussion, did you *gasp* make an analysis? I must have missed all of that, dont expect me to post again untill ive read EVERYTHING 3 times at least, cya Edit without edit: it might have been unfair to blame you for the list, it was chaos question. Chaos gave the oportunity for a perfect mafia blend in. Not accusing you just saying it was chaosses fault, since it was an opportunity to post without information, to dissapear from any nasty lurker lists, to seem helpfull without doing anything really. And yes, why did you vote for me? didnt like the pressure? A good tactice to discourage anything is to punish the first guy who does it, since no second will come without a first right? Well the first guy to stick his neck out got a vote and the careless fos of the allmighty town leader. Sure as hell makes your case worse I voted for you because your post was scummy in my eyes. It still is. Sand voted for me like 3 hours ago, but the way he went about accusing me was pretty townie, so I don't suspect him for it. We are 7 hours in, no I have no analysis. My first 30 or so hours will be spent generating discussion and figuring out who I think is green from their posting. I'll also be figuring out who is mafia or pushing mafia objectives. Finally the atmosphere seems good to me, no flaming, discussion is proceeding, people are being gentlemanly, right now its good that people are talking. I'm not going to post who I have concluded is town, because I have no interest in painting targets on their back, thank you very much. So far my scum reads are pretty soft, but as more people post I should be able to figure out a nice day 1 candidate. Read, carefully, the thread, a lot of valuable information has been revealed. For now my vote is staying on you, since I want to see you tick ^_^ Also it is now 4:15 am in my local area so I'm off to sleep. See you all in the morning! | ||
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GMarshal
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1.) Cynic and bashing our efforts thus far 2.) Weak as hell, he had an accusation of hiro, but no vote and about two lines of reasoning. Now I happen to agree with him, but I wanted to see him commit to voting hiro, to see how serious he is. Remember a mafia trait is to start wagons without committing to them. I wanted to see commitment. His reaction was interesting, but not damning, and he did vote for hiro, which assuaged some of my doubts, but I want to keep my vote on him till there is somewhere better to put it. Sorry I went to bed, any other questions? As for the person who said that promising analysis is scummy, its only scummy when you don't deliver, I will, its just I like to dedicate most of day 1 to information gathering. ^_^ (and TAA, I love smilies, I use them a lot. See experimental mafia II for other "cutesy" things I like, I'm very eccentric ) | ||
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On June 29 2011 01:26 TheAwesomeAll wrote: FoS list hiro GM syllogism Drazerk Please, please, please keep it down to one or two candidates day 1, too many FoSes only causes chaos and disjointed voting. If you want to push my case go for it, but limit yourself to that and maybe one other, posting 4 mafia candidates allows the mafia to push whichever ones they want from that list, while ignoring the guilty. | ||
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Why are you so upset about my vote though? Its only one vote, and you *know* how I like to move my vote around day 1. Why aren't you bothered by any of the *other* votes in the thread? And lynching one of the most active players day 1 is as retarded as it gets, you lynch a mid tier activity player, one who is posting without calling attention to himself. | ||
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On June 29 2011 03:13 sinani206 wrote: *sigh* Why do I always get lynched D1? Drazerk and Palmar both have crappy reasons for voting for me. DropBear is the only one that had a good reason but now he's tunneling. GM is obviously a better candidate. What makes me "obviously" better? Kindly make a case. ^_^ | ||
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On June 29 2011 03:28 Vain wrote: Really wtf guys. Why are you still voting for TAA? You are both not putting pressure on him and just voting because he's bad town in your eyes. Bad town still doesn't make scum. The reasons you give for currently voting on him are: 1: since I want to see you tick 2: Pointing out scum Of all people you should know that random finger pointing is not really a scumtell *coughkurumicough* and that there are better targets than TAA. At least now we have some discussion going on and not just pro/against lurker killing. Here we go, *this* is what that vote was looking for. Reactions, not from TAA alone (although his were revealing enough), but from people around him. Look for example at DB, he flipped out at my vote on TAA, when it was only a vote and was backed by a relatively weak accusation (I mean it was ok, but it wasn't anywhere near damning). Also look at the people (person) who chose to vote with me. What does endorsing such a weak case say about them? That said, I think I got as much out of that one vote as I can expect to, so its time for me to move onto people who I *actually* think deserve to be voted on. Hi hiro! ##Vote: Hiro Protagonist Analysis of his scant contributions coming up | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + That was easy. Each and every one of his posts masquerades as having content, without really including anything worthwhile. It takes no stances and interestingly enough brings up mild opposition to LSB's plan. This isn't necessarily damning, but I want hiro to start taking definite stances. I want so see which lynch he would advocate today, and what he thinks about pretty much everything. This "posting just to get by" is bad for the town, and he isn't going to get away with it. Yes this case is not extremely solid, but the PBP I originally wrote was all "no content" and "fluff" comments, which would have made my case longer than necessary for clarity, in essence hiro needs to give us more so we can actually assess his alignment, as reading over his posts reveals nothing. | ||
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On June 29 2011 03:36 DropBear wrote: Whoa Drazerk, where did this come from? As far as I can tell, you never really attacked Marshal in the first place. The only thing I can find is this and it's not exactly a wild accusation. What's the deal with the big claim of changing your mind? You never really attacked him. Plus you decide GMarshal is not scum based on hiro's posts? DOES NOT COMPUTE explain plz I second this, explanation please, what does hiro have to do with me? ^_^ | ||
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On June 29 2011 03:49 Drazerk wrote: Nothing I was just commenting on what TAA asked me to do - Form an opinion on Hiro in doing so I formed an opinion on you but not him as he has actually posted nothing. Oh, I misunderstood that point then. Did you form an opinion on hiro though? If so what is it? | ||
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On June 29 2011 03:54 Drazerk wrote: Not really I admit he's playing pretty scummy but I am not sure if that is his play style or not as I've not seen other games with him. He's one to keep an eye out on though and we should try and pressure him out of hiding. You should vote for him then. Nothing gets someone's attention like a nice noose drawing taut around the neck. | ||
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On June 29 2011 03:58 DropBear wrote: ???????? Dude. Hiro's been reserved as both scum and town in the past, but he's distancing himself from his quiet playstyle of mafia? Isn't that distancing himself from his town play as well? How can you tell the difference? Marshal you are attacking him DESPITE THE FACT HIS VERY FIRST POST WAS TO CARBON COPY AGREE WITH EVERYTHING YOU SAID. Hiro hasn't shown me anything dodgy yet at all. Its not *that* he agreed, but how he went about agreeing with me. "I 100% agree" adds nothing new to the discussion, while he could have made new points or explained his reasoning. That is what bothers me, not the agreement. Its really easy to say "I agree", harder to actually contribute arguments. My beef with him isn't what he has said, its what he *hasn't* said, which is anything that is new or controversial. Honestly I'm not sure of his alignment, but I want to be which is why I'm voting for him, to encourage him to make a case on someone else, or a contribution, anything I can use to figure him out really. | ||
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On June 29 2011 04:13 DropBear wrote: TOWN READS youngminii TheAwesomeAll syllogism SCUM READS sinani206 GMarshal Mig 1.) I am NOT advocating lynching Hiro, just pressuring him. Please don't misrepresent me. 2.) DON'T POST GREEN READS. It only makes them mafia targets and helps us not at all 3.) Please limit your scum list to two people in the interest of concentrating your (and our) focus 4.) 'm not derailing your sinani206 lynch, the case against him ("I don't like leaders") seems to be extremely weak, and it does *not* merit a lynch. If you had a decent case, then you could argue about me derailing your wagon, but I fail to see what distinguishes sinani206 from his clone and a bunch of other posters. | ||
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On June 29 2011 04:59 TheAwesomeAll wrote: you have a good point there, so youre saying Drazerk isnt scum? It would be silly for Mafia to start a new discussion if there is no pressure. That means Drazerk isnt scum but just look at his posting. Also if GM is town it would be pretty stupid to attack me that hard on my first post, then disagreeing with himself two posts later and now completely agreeing with my first post. Seems unlikely doesnt? See this is called "disregarding the facts". Your first post was scummy. Your subsequent posts changed my mind on you, which is why my attitude changed. However my vote still baited out reactions which is why I left it to "see you twitch", I was gaging thread reactions, my attack on you is a soft as my attacks get. If you want to see a strong attack see my attacks in other games, notably as orange in Experimental Mafia II. Those are attacks, my case/vote on you? That was bait. And I'm NOT agreeing that hiro is scum. I'm trying to see how he jumps. When/if he comes out with the scumhunting he promised, my vote moves to someone else who isn't being as helpful as I think they need to be. @Wiggles, I have a bunch of green reads right now and almost no scum reads, I'll have some by about 12 hours before the lynch or so (I might not actually get here by then though, but by 8 hours before the lynch you should be hearing at least one red read from me) , I won't share green reads for obvious reasons. Also, parentheticals are cool.^_^ @Jackal, feel better soon ^_^ | ||
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On June 29 2011 05:11 syllogism wrote: Sorry, that's not neutral, that's just an argument against making bad cases early on. You've done nothing at all either so. I'm not going to stop pointing out bad logic or poor cases and I'm frankly of the opinion unless there's a big slip on d1, the odds of actually lynching scum aren't higher than with a pure random lynch We've hit scum day 1 before. Its hard, not impossible. This defeatist attitude is not good, please correct it. If we all analyze and concentrate our efforts lynching mafia is entirely possible. So, who do you think is scum right now? What do you think we should be doing to heighten our odds of hitting mafia? | ||
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Also every time RoL posts in the thread I have a mini-heart attack. | ||
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I wanted to say that Drazak saying his flip will prove anything is stupid, my alignment is not tied to his in any way, if he flips green I may be scum still. If he flips red, I may be green, or red. Making assumptions about me based on him or him based on me is wifom at best, stupid at worst. More constructive opinions as soon as I handle a couple things that have popped up IRL. I may end up not posting till tomorrow, I'll see what I can do. | ||
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GMarshal's Address First and foremost, I will only be addressing the current 3 lynch targets in my assessments, the three targets as I see them are VE, Drazek, and sinani206. Furthermore I'd like to apologize for vanishing for the last few hours. Real life can be a huge bitch sometimes. Let me also address the mafia shootings. LSB I already talked about, as I was around at the time. The Awesome All makes perfect sense as a kill, as his aggressiveness has both revealed him as an almost guaranteed target, and his accusations of me make his death ideal to frame me. Nautilus makes no sense to me as a *mafia* kill, I believe it may be a stray vigilante shot. Either way speculating about mafia kills is just WIFOM, and best ignored. This post will establish what I think of each candidate, by looking at what they have posted VisceraEyes On June 28 2011 13:59 VisceraEyes wrote: I see both sides of making lists. The discussion it generates is a definite plus for town, if it's focused the right way. YM, you referenced the Zodiac List from XLII...what you didn't take into account was that after he posted the Zodiac List, BC didn't guide the discussion after it...making it bad for town. He used the fact that no one uses the list properly to his advantage. Had he been town, he likely would have guided discussion properly, and it likely would have been more of a help for town. There are a lot of likelies in that statement, and I'm well aware of it, tyvm. That's just my opinion. Conversely, when abused, the Zodiac Lists DO tend to clutter up the thread. This post sticks out to me. Look at it, it says a lot, right? It talks about how lists can be excessively useful, and about how they can clutter the thread. What he fails to do is take a stance on these lists. Does he think we should be discussing them? If so then where is his and why isn't he talking about specific lists? If he doesn't then why dosn't he say that? Where is all this "This is all just my opinion" thing coming from? Where is his stance? This lack of commitment is a clear sign of someone scared of being forced to argue either side, so he takes a neutral "I can see both sides" stance. Then he argues about who belongs on the vet list with me, specifically he thinks Palmar doesn't belong there. But its not a strong opinion, he dosen't lobby for me to change the list or argue about it very strongly, he just kind of lets it go. I have the feeling his heart wasn't really in the argument, which is interesting, because it feels like he brought it up so he could say "see I thought something about the lists!" On June 28 2011 15:42 VisceraEyes wrote: :O I go to do research to answer GM's question and I come back to this?!?! Real Time is going to be INSANITY. Vaccuous and fluffy. I think 201 is leading there with the 8-10 (exaggeration, but just barely) posts concerning his name. Yes, we get it. They're not the same people. I was also going to say LSB for talking about a plan to put people on the lurker list and then not following through...but.... Another post that sticks out to me as excessively scummy. The last line is the typical response of a mafia who is trying to hard to fake surprises "Oh, I would have *never* shot LSB, I thought he was scummy" is what we are supposed to get out of it. Its a textbook scumtell, which makes it more unlikely to be accurate, but I believe it bears mentioning, scumtells are tells for a reason. He then has 4-5 posts where he promises analysis and points out that Drazek flipping red makes me probably red... which is ridiculous, as I said earlier, scum who feel threatened love to muddy the water by buddying up to town leaders and distancing themselves from their buddies, its a method to both try to avoid the immediate suspicion and to bring chaos when they die. VisceraEyes then brings up a rather large PBP analysis of Drazek, which is a point in his favor, although the fact that he had to wait to get to a vote lead before he produced this says something bad about his motivation. It also seems to me like his analysis is a rehash of previously made points. In the end VisceraEyes comes out looking scummy, but trying to redeem himself, arguments in his favor include that no one has come out and defended him and the fact that he is defending himself. I'm not convinced of Viscera's guilt, and Sinani206 Lets talk about Sinani206, the man some people are convinced is scum. He starts the game by pressure voting 201, his clone, in an attempt to generate some activity, which is good. Then when we start discussing a "pro-town atmosphere" he shows up with this little tidbit On June 28 2011 14:44 sinani206 wrote: Pro-Town atmosphere would ideally be:
Being a "leader" seems really scummy to me. I just have this innate bias that leaders are mafia, and even though there is quite a slim chance of them being scum, if they are, town has already lost. As has been mentioned before, all spamming does is derail town. It makes posts hard to find and confuses people so that scum are harder to analyse and pin for what they really are. Scumhunting is obviously very pro-town. It gives the town a good discussion point and helps (obviously) find mafia. No reason not to do this. Lurking is confusing for all players who aren't lurking. It makes you hard to analyse. Obviously with all the anti-lurking abilities in this game, it isn't much of an issue, but keep this in mind. That pretty much covers it. If anyone has any additions, feel free to share. Keep all of these points in mind when posting and analyzing. Off to play some SotIS and then go to sleep. Probably won't check the thread until morning. Good night folks! Now people gave him a lot of crap for point 1.) No Leaders, which I fail to grasp, yes its not a *brilliant* point, but its one way to generate discussion, to make a controversial point of debate! We could have had a whole polarized debate with people forced to give opinions on the value of leadership and on how the town needs to scrutinize leaders. Instead it was glazed over and brought as a point against him Bad Ideas =/= scum. Its the rest of his points we should be taking issue with, as its spelling out the obvious, its the type of thing a mafia can say without sticking their neck out, because it doesn't address *how* to do this. No No Lurking, because we will shoot you, no discussion of how the town will enforce the atmosphere, only one good point amongst many bad ones. This post *is* scummy, but not for the reasons that have been brought up He then spends like 6 posts insinuating I'm mafia because I take "leadership" which is how I act every game anyway, which I'm sure sinani206 is aware of. Still its good to question "leaders" as they must be scrutinized in case they are mafia, in which case they can lead the town in circles. On June 29 2011 13:40 sinani206 wrote: Stop derailing the thread with the IRC nonsense. You're scaring others (like me) from posting. This post, it just confuses the hell out of me. The derailing the thread part is good, but the reason is... crap... how does the conversation about IRC scare anyone from posting. To me it looks like discontinuous logic, Sinani is scared of posting and needs a reason for it, so he comes up with something that is happening in the thread to justify it. This, is extremely suspicious to me, as he has never claimed to be "scared" in any other game of his I've seen. Sinani206 then votes for VE, based on meta reasonings. As I have said before, when you make a case for your vote it can use meta as backing, but never as the sole reason. Furthermore Sinani206 bashes VE's analysis, yet Sinani has all of ONE post that is longer than a few lines. He has no analysis and next to no opinion on players. Its almost as if he weren't committing to anything , the only opinion on players I've seen from him is Drazek is less scummy than VE, because Drazek is playing similar to how he played in SNMMIV (poorly). Oh and GM is scum, my gut says so, which is the most weaksauce argument I've seen in a while, especially after he claimed he "naturally" thinks leaders are scum. From his scant contributions and his effort to post enough to not be a lurker, while *still* not helping the town, and his unwillingness to actually form opinions, I conclude that Sinani is scum running scared. He might just be playing poorly as town, but right now he looks red to me. My opinion might change if he makes up his mind on a couple things, such thoughts on other players in the game, and a justification for his lack of opinions previously. Drazek Now, l'm pretty sure my opinion on Drazek is going to be pretty radical compared to other people's but so be it. Lets look at one of his first posts On June 28 2011 21:46 Drazerk wrote: After reading Dropbear's post on Henry is anyone Else suspicious of Edward the first? At the start of the game he is Pretty much forced into talking by Henry which Dropbear picked up on but no one really followed it up. ( I think LSB died a few moments later ) As other people have said the majority of his posts are him stating they are not the same person and the only thing he has truly contributed was outlining a mistake by Chaos Either Alerting his mafia buddies of a possible medic claim or just being stupid Personally Im suspecting Both Edward and Henry due to the amount of Fluff they are producing to keep of that lurker list Now, what exactly is this post? Is it a wall of fluff? Perhaps an attempt at dodging thoughts? No, its an *actual* opinion! On TWO players. Without prodding or prompting I think too. Do you know how rare this is? Especially if he is mafia? How many other players had commited to an opinion at this point in the game? Almost none. This in book earns the man some townie points, despite the weakness of his suspicion and the lack of a vote supporting it, he still came out with an opinion. This is almost exactly what TAA did earlier, minus the cynical tone, its a townie looking post, in style, even if it lacks content. Furthermore he *does* vote for Sinani206 which makes the post an accusation, rather than a mudfling. Then there is his defense of me, I will not quote it in full as it is not necessary, but how often do you see mafia players radically reversing their positions like that? Not often, at least in my book, I would have expected a much more doubtful post from him in regards to me, something like "he could be town, might be scum, lets talk about maybe lynching him, if you want". Its possible its a mafia ploy to tie us two together, in which case there is a clever player in the mafia team, but to be honest, I doubt it, to me this reversal in stance is exactly what scum would avoid, as it causes people to scrutinize you even harder. I find his lack of opinion on hiro interesting though, having already expressed opinions on Sinani206 and 201 I would expect him to have said something about hiro. Although he reaches much the same conclusion as I do "Hiro has yet to say *anything* we can judge him by" He then contributes this analysis of sinani206, which is 1.) bringing focus back on a FoS he had earlier and 2.) Actually an all out accusation. This shows that Drazak is actually forming an opinion | ||
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The last paragraph on VE should read VisceraEyes then brings up a rather large PBP analysis of Drazek, which is a point in his favor, although the fact that he had to wait to get to a vote lead before he produced this says something bad about his motivation. It also seems to me like his analysis is a rehash of previously made points. In the end VisceraEyes comes out looking scummy, but trying to redeem himself, arguments in his favor include that no one has come out and defended him and the fact that he is defending himself. I'm not convinced of Viscera's guilt, and think Sinani206 is a better lynch from where it cuts of in my Drazek analysis. This shows that Drazak is actually forming an opinion and committing to it, which is not a newbie mafia trait. Finally asking for DT checks is one of the last things a mafia would ask for, since there is the risk of them being taken up on it. Basically I don't see where this wagon on Drazak is coming from, all I get from him is a newbie town read. He might be deceiving me, but hes answered all questions and committed to opinions thought the game, if he is scum he has some good guidance from his team, but so far he seems like a transparent townie to me. My vote goes on Sinani206 | ||
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Form some opinions, point back them up. Why am I scum for example, other than "became leader". Point out what I've done that shows I'm not town aligned, or that actually hurt the town. Make an actual case or analysis of someone. Something. | ||
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On June 30 2011 06:32 Mr. Wiggles wrote: @GM What do you think of Drazerk's martyring posts? I might be willing to consider changing my vote, but I can't get past how he makes a post giving up and then points us to a game where he dd the same thing as town. What's your take? I generally ignore meta, and pointing to the metagame is something I've seen both new and old players do, both as scum and town. Its bad play, but it doesn't tilt the balance for me either way, as we've said, bad play =/= mafia. Is it a determining factor for you? I understand what about it makes it suspicious, but in my experience its not something only mafia or only town do, so I'm not getting a huge read based on it. | ||
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On June 30 2011 06:48 Drazerk wrote: More Whishy washy scum posting? Get a suspect and commit to it. this is just fluff buying you enough times for people in Europe to go to sleep unable to change votes um? what? If sinani is scum that would be idiotic of him. Im a fair bit more interested in why you came to this conclusion. I thought you didn't mind dying? | ||
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On June 30 2011 07:05 syllogism wrote: I think there's 6 hours left until lynch based on the day post, which would mean the third kill was indeed a mafia kill and not a vigi hit. Well, unless someone someone was double stacked, but that seems unlikely. So, who do you think should be lynched today? | ||
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On June 30 2011 07:52 Mr. Wiggles wrote: @GM How sure are you that Draz's martyring and self-referencing are a null-tell, and how strong is your read on sinani? Curious. :p martyring is *terrible* scum play, as I learned in PYP:I, not sure if Draz knows that though, when I say "null tell" I mean that its behavior that both scum and town do, which means it plays no part on when I read someone, so no matter *who* did it (unless its an experienced player with no history of self reference), that means the null-tell isn't strong or weak, its simply not a factor in my analysis. My read on sinani206 is strong, for a day 1 read, but its a day 1 call, and I'm notoriously bad at those. Right now of the candidates up to lynch I think he is the most likely to be mafia. However I'm sure there are better candidates, I just don't want us to have a hectic last minute voteswitch and let the mafia control who gets lynched. For example I'd be happy to put hiro up for lynch, but with only about 5 hours left in the day, I'm sure it wouldn't be beneficial to us to start a serious wagon on him. | ||
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On June 30 2011 08:26 VisceraEyes wrote: I was literally JUST thinking that...and after I'd just said he never commits to a stance. -.- Whats bothersome is that he had to wait to be leading the wagon to be arsed to post an analysis, to me this reeks of either distancing himself or trying to divert a lynch bbl I have stuff to do | ||
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On June 30 2011 09:58 VisceraEyes wrote: *slowclap* Congratulations Palmar, you've successfully led a lynch of a townie. Your leadership skills are....astounding. Oh, I guess before I die I should go ahead and claim. I am a Detective, and I've had a guilty on Draz since I posted my analysis. I'm sorry that I had to come out like this, but you guys are about to make the biggest mistake of the game and I figured something had to be done. For the record, this is why I've been inactive. This is literally the FIRST time I've been given a meaningful power-role that didn't involve dying, so I didn't want to fuck it up. And with the blue-sniping of XLII, I was scared SHITLESS to post. But I can assure you, Drazerk is guilty, and HE should be hanging today, not me. DT claim means its time to hang Drazek. If he flips anything but red your ass is toast. ##Unvote ##Vote: Drazek this is entirely against my read on drazek, but DT checks rarely lie. GOGOGOGO VOTESWITCH. | ||
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On June 30 2011 10:04 Palmar wrote: By the way, for future reference if you're telling the truth, please, please don't try to play differently when you're blue. Just play completely normally. So, you think he is lying? Actually this is a day 1 claim, isn't it. As per Ace's logic we then lynch the dt. Sorry VE, but flipping drezak first tells us nothing about your alignment, while flipping you first reveals both yours and Drezaks. If you do flip DT we vigi Drezak first thing tomorrow morning. | ||
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Sure thing. When a DT claims day 1 there are a few possibilities. 1.) He is scum, and is trying to establish himself as town and his target is red 2.) He is a DT as he claims 3.) He is scum and his target is green, this is a form of damage control Say we hang his claimed target first, and he flips red. Now we have to sit here and spend a whole day or more wifoming about is he scum busing a team mate to become a "confirmed" townie and lead us astray? Is he a DT and we need to follow his commands? Why isn't the mafia shooting/rbing him? We lynch the DT first and we know for sure what Drezaks alignment is, and we avoid the whole shenanigans with not knowing what VE is. Looking over VE's posts they make some sense for a new blue, but this is still the proper way to handle DT claims day 1 and 2. | ||
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On June 30 2011 10:10 VisceraEyes wrote: Ace's logic applies to D1 starts with Night kills...not a Real-Time setup with NO night-phase. But hey, do whatever you want. I can rest easy now that you guys know the truth. Actually it applies to any game where DTs can have checks by day 1. Either way, I'm thinking of not going for the optimal play, your posts *fit* being blue. As of right now my vote is on Drazek, but I need to think on this -__- | ||
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On June 30 2011 10:15 Palmar wrote: 1.) We get a scum kill. then we just make sure to keep thinking critically instead of blindly trusting 2.) Aweomse 3.) 1 for 1 is a trade I'll take The only really shitty scenario is if he lucks out and Drezark is a miller. Lynching the DT first is still the correct play. I'm going to say fuck the correct play right now, because it all clicked when he claimed. Also now I feel sheepish for thinking Draz is town, but I guess we'll see soon enough. | ||
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On June 30 2011 10:18 youngminii wrote: FUCK THAT VIG KILL GM NO DOUBT, NO HESITATION kill DT day 1? HAH Its the logical response dude. EVERY SINGLE VET (that is good) will agree with me here. Its how its done, go see the game where it happened to Ace. Yes he was scum, the logic is still bulletproof. But go ahead fucking vig me. I dare you. | ||
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On June 30 2011 10:19 Sinani201 wrote: If Drazerk flips red then the Mafia will surely kill Viscera by tomorrow. It would be too dangerous for them to let him live. If he is not dead by tomorrow then he is either Mafia or the Mafia is "painting" him red by keeping him alive, in which we give him time for one more supposed investigation before letting a compulsive vig shoot him down. And if he is scum he'll claim he was rbed, and live in this happy world of "oh I is confirmed town". I'm not going to argue over it, you people aren't going to agree with me, and for today I'm going to fuck the correct play to go with what makes sense to me. | ||
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On June 30 2011 10:22 youngminii wrote: That last post was directed at anyone who was sheeping along with Viscera's lynch by the way. Nup, no one will agree with you unless it's a closed setup. Only very special circumstances or game setup would justify a DT lynch, which I still would not agree with. Have fun dying, you are almost definitely the GF. How about this then, if I'm not the town vigis you. For giggles. My first game where I dont die early in a long time and I get this type of shit. Whats hilarious is that if I were scum I would have sheeped the DT the moment he claimed, and let someone else point out that logic, but w/e. Vigi away, it won't change anything, but provide a dead townie. | ||
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On June 30 2011 10:25 GGQ wrote: Yeah when I said before that I didn't really like any of the lynch candidates, GM was the person I had in my head as my ideal lynch candidate. If no vig is bold enough to shoot him, I hope hatters will at least set their bombs on him. Your two-faced approach to the 'lynch the dt' policy is just making you seem more scummy to me. Sure thing. I pointed out what the right approach is, i didn't endorse following it, I merely indicated what it is. Please Vigi, shoot me tomorrow. | ||
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That is all, see you all tomorrow, when I flip green. On the bright side, you won't have to worry about arguing my lynch, and remember at least 2 on my vet list are likely scum. | ||
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On June 30 2011 11:08 sandroba wrote: Don't shoot GM, if he is Scum and made that EXTREMELLY BALSY comment on lynching the DT (which would most likely get him shot) he earned another day of life. Let'em shoot, the *last* thing this town needs is all of us arguing about me for a whole day, it would be much like the RoL thing in XLII, once the town decides you are scum, innocence and proof is irrelevant. Anyway, all I ask is that we not waste more than one shot, so if the Vigi could have two tabs open and fire and claim at the same time, I would appreciate it, stops him from being rbed and stops more than one vigi from wasting bullets. thanks! | ||
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On June 30 2011 11:17 youngminii wrote: Nono, he's martyring himself at this point. I can't see him EVER doing that as a solid townie who actually wants to win the game. Target identified. Shoot on sight. Also, RoL played horribly in XLII (sorry RoL!) and you know that. Don't try to bullshit your way out of the situation you created for yourself. Even your 'advice' to the Vigs is null. Vig shots never overlap, it's ALWAYS first come first serve and you know that. Not necessarily in real time mafia, and in a couple cases you could figure out. | ||
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On June 30 2011 12:37 sinani206 wrote: I live in Los Angeles. 22:00 is in 1:24. Its because RoL put EST in the time tag during Daylight Savings EST becomes EDT, he should probably fix that, but the day ends at 13:00 KST, which is in 20 min. | ||
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GOGOGO, and please claim! | ||
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On June 30 2011 13:10 Cthsazsa wrote: GM quit with bullshitting. If you were town why the fuck are you asking, DARING the vigi's to waste a bullet on you. If you were veteran why the hell are you begging to get your extra life taken away. Until someone does shoot you, I think you're an excellent lynch. Thats the point, I'm trying to avoid spending all day arguing about my lynch. If someone shoots me, we can worry about legitimate targets. | ||
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On June 30 2011 13:10 Cthsazsa wrote: ##Vote GMarshal Trying to get rid of a vet? If I'm what I claim then confirming me is easy ^_^ | ||
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On June 30 2011 13:23 youngminii wrote: Well you're mafia so I can't see why they'd want to roleblock you. Someone shoot him already. Yes please! Again, as soon as someone shoots me we can stop arguing. Allow me to point out that if I'm mafia I am literally insane to be asking to be shot, repeatedly. | ||
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On June 30 2011 13:34 chaos13 wrote: Oh hell do I feel like an idiot now. Sorry Viscera So do I! ^_^ *still* haven't been shot. Vigi's really need to get on that. What lynch targets are we considering for today? | ||
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On June 30 2011 13:36 youngminii wrote: In any case, the Drazerk lynch gave us more information than we know what to do with. A quick scan of the voting thread will give you an idea of who's town and who has grounds for suspicion. Still can't believe they made you claim DT lawlawlawl. What I don't understand is that GM suggested that we should kill you and now he's 100% supportive of your role, baiting mafia to roleblock him. Does not make sense, I just don't understand. I said that I though the optimal play in a day 1 claim is to lynch the dt. I stand by that, but he made enough sense as a DT that I was willing to forget optimal play an roll with it and lynch his target. You realize VE isn't confirmed, right? He could have just bussed a team mate. Either way, I'm not "supportive" of his role, if he is still around day 5-6 we lynch him and have a crap tonne of information, otherwise the mafia will make damn sure he isn't around. I will admit Drazek fooled me, it happens, I have terrible day 1 reads. Again, I'm super easy to confirm, just shoot me, if the mafia rbed me then Im dead and you have a dt check and a confirmed townie if the vigi claims (grain of salt if there aren't 4 kills at the end of the day), basically two confirmed townies or one free scum and one confirmed townie. If the mafia RBed the dt, then you shoot me and get two confirmed townies. Its win win! | ||
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On June 30 2011 13:54 youngminii wrote: GTRSRS HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT GMARSHAL? WHAT ARE YOUR OPINIONS ON PALMAR'S CONSTANT VOTE SWITCHING? DO YOU THINK VISCERAEYES COULD BE SCUM AND TRYING SOME GOSU STRATEGY? i hope the caps created a sense of urgency for your caffeinated brain Please don't spam caps, they hurt my eyes -__- | ||
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On June 30 2011 14:01 gtrsrs wrote: the caps have put me into a heightened sense of focus, I DON'T HAVE TIME TO FRY EGGS, I MUST EXPLAIN MY THOUGHTS NOW i think i've explained how i feel about GMarshal pretty well. TAA was onto something early, GMarshal acted in a very scummy way, but he has a "rep" which lets him slide with that kind of bullshit. my scumbell was ding ding dingalinging when he pulled the "oh yeah, i wasn't really suspicious of TAA, i was just gauging reactions" card. he's doing essentially what iGrok did in XL, which is to be all haughty and beg for others' opinions of him and DT checks (which he knows will come back green as he is the godfather). he's now softclaimed vigi and hardclaimed vet, but still hasn't taken a shot. every second that passes makes me think he's mafia tbh. Drazerk's buddy-buddying isn't helping his case either MORE QUESTIONS I was going to reply to this, but you know what, I wont. Bolded part never happened, I also never suggested I was a Vigi. I did claim vet, and guess what, easy as hell to confirm. I never, ever asked for a dt check and *all* my behavior has been pro-town. That is all. And Drazek budding up to me should tell you something, but go on and let the mafia sway your opinions. ^_^ Anyway, I'm done defending myself, where is my bullet so I can get to scumhunting? I'm tired and I want to sleep. | ||
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On June 30 2011 14:13 gtrsrs wrote: yeah, this it's like, drazerk just tried the martyring strategy and it didn't work at all now you're trying it? think second time is a charm? stop begging for hits (that won't come) and go bus your teammates some so we know who to lynch on day 3 Actually rather than doing that, I'm going to go to sleep and hope a vigi has shot me by the time I get up. If I'm still around, I'll post my thoughts, right now I'm not in the mood or the proper mindset to post constructively anyway, after the flip I need to re-read the thread and reassess the current situation | ||
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Can we hurry up with that? Please? Everyone keeps making these assumptions about everyone's alignment based on me being scum, and they are just wrong. Need to correct that ASAP. | ||
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On July 01 2011 00:34 Sinani201 wrote: Why would anyone do that when we can just lynch you instead? Saves us a vigi shot, or two. Because you get a confirmed townie or dead scum out of the deal, its win win. You are being dense. Please don't be dense. | ||
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On July 01 2011 00:40 youngminii wrote: Good snipe but you REALLY should have shot GMarshal. I am disappoint. Agreed. Here in bold for the next vigi who shows up Please goddamn shoot me. I need to confirm myself already | ||
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On July 01 2011 00:47 youngminii wrote: syllo is right, I made a distinct effort to avoid talking about DropBear. Basically DropBear showed pretty huge scum behaviour, any town KP role worth his weight would have targeted him. This tells us our Vig is very competent ^_^ Are you saying "I knew he was scum, so I ignored him" ? because if thats the case its mind boggling. Especially since you already aimed the town KP at me. When you see scum you point them out, so if the town kp are not as smart as you they see it. I call BS, you are trying to take credit for something you deserve no credit for. | ||
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Thanks ^_^ | ||
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On July 01 2011 00:47 youngminii wrote: syllo is right, I made a distinct effort to avoid talking about DropBear. Basically DropBear showed pretty huge scum behaviour, any town KP role worth his weight would have targeted him. This tells us our Vig is very competent ^_^ Oh, sorry YM I interpreted this as "I knew he was scum all along, hah!" which I took as obliquely taking credit, I may have misinterpreted it. | ||
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On July 01 2011 01:19 chaos13 wrote: Why, because you're just a goon? Even if you are a veteran and taking a hit would confirm you, it's better to kill a mafia than confirm a townie. You're not making any sense to me GM. You're playing a more pro-town game than almost anyone, and yet every now and then you post something like this that just doesn't make sense. However, I doubt a mafia would call a vigi shot to them. /facepalm. If you lynch me, you just wasted a lynch. If you shoot me, you wasted a bullet but got a confirmed townie out of the deal. With this many people thinking I'm scum, you have to throw a KP at me, but one results in my death if I'm lying and lets me live if I'm telling the truth, the other just kills me. Which sounds better losing a KP and me if I'm telling the truth? Or losing a KP and keeping me if I'm telling the truth? This is just common sense, whenever anyone claims vet and you know there are vigis you shoot them to confirm, period. | ||
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Still no vigi shot, what gives? | ||
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On July 01 2011 11:25 VisceraEyes wrote: GM, don't give these guys ammunition. If you're town, at least give everyone your thoughts on the stuff you know about. It's not like you've missed anything...just people calling for you on a pike....Vladimir style. I'd love to, but shit hit the fan IRL and I simply can't focus on mafia right now. I want to become confirmed so I can replace with a clear conscience that the person who gets my spot isn't anally fucked, otherwise I would have already replaced, I just don't want to throw the poor replacement to the lions. One of Opz, Palmar and YM is probably scum though. I'm leaning towards palmar, but I haven't analyzed him or anything, so I really can't judge. Sorry guys when I signed up none of the shit that is going on was projected/expected/supposed to happen. | ||
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On July 01 2011 14:17 Cthsazsa wrote: ebwop: Of course, this could be a major plot that GM is brewing up. He did say something along the lines of "depending on how the weekend goes I may or may not be able to stay in this game." I also know that GM doesn't like losing, and actually I wouldn't be surprised if it's some elaborate plan of his. It's a huge WIFOM conspiracy theory, and I personally hate conspiracy theories >_> I never, ever use resources outside the game to try to influence the game. You should know this. Its cheating, and there is one thing I hate, its cheaters. (yes, more than I hate losing) I would never use another thread outside this game to try to affect the results here. (and I wouldn't risk missing a Caller game [WITH NUKES!!!] if I could possibly avoid it). Thats my last statement on this topic. Would a kind vigi just shoot me now? | ||
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On July 01 2011 18:01 Palmar wrote: I agree with almost everything that has been said so far. Great job Varpulis. About the GM thing. It's extremely unfortunate that he hasn't been shot. What he's posting right now seems genuine, but it also isn't help the town any way. There are still way too may loose ends, and as some of us have noted, part of his posting looks like his typical mafia death. I would be all for confirming him town because he is a great asset for us if he is on our side. I have great respect for GM as player. But there is simply no way we're letting him live through the game without confirming him. He has pulled way too many scummy things to do it. Yes, there are several things that point towards him being innocent, but so are there quite a few very incriminating things. It's by far the worse alternative, but he has to hang. I still strongly oppose using DT checks on the lurker list. Do you really think we have multiple mafia in there VisceraEyes? But yes, us not having a one-shot vigilante would make perfect sense, seeing the lack of shots into the lurker list. We're doing great, let's keep on track. Wiggles's points about the effect of Varp's death on VE's alignment are completely correct. This does not tell us anything about it. But at the moment I think VE is still a nice gamble for the town to trust. So we're not changing anything. Take note. This is what is called pushing a mislynch. I'm not asking anyone to let me live through the game. We know theres a comp-vigi who shot DB this morning. Have him shoot me tomorrow. I'll claim when I get hit, if I'm lying then the comp vig knows and can shoot me. Guaranteed townie or dead scum, its win win. Doesn't even require anyone else to claim, I lie, I die. Or you can waste a lynch. | ||
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On July 01 2011 18:19 Palmar wrote: That means the compulsive vigilante, who is a great town asset, has to reveal himself to confirm you. It's not a trade worth making, in my opinion, especially since we seem to have a very competent compulsive viglante. You are not worth his life in your current situation. Normally you would be, but this game you have underperformed, and our vigilante has taken a great shot. And yes, once again, if this is a mislynch and people need an outlet to rage at if it fails, I'll take the blame for it. I make decisions, many of them are bound to be wrong, but I stand by them. Every time. Comp vig dosn't have to claim... He shoots me, I get notified and claim it. If I lie about taking a hit then the comp vig knows Im scum and blows my head off. If I dont get my head blown off I'm telling the truth. Where does the vig claim? | ||
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I am off to argue with bureaucrats now. | ||
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On July 02 2011 07:54 gtrsrs wrote: they must not have sarcasm yet in singapore I applaud your brilliant defense. Would you care to perhaps spice it up with a couple insults too? I mean the guy *did* just make a decent case. Obviously he deserves your disdain. I do have to ask though, where is the gtrs that was 100% confident in his reads I saw in SNMMIV? Other than the very popular and indubitably wrong "GM is scum" I have yet to see you have any strong convictions. Hell I have yet to see you add anything to the conversation. My scumdar is tingling. Anyway, we are consolidating our votes right now, and I don't really have time to write a case on you that actually integrates what I saw in other games as compared to this one, but the obvious differences are there, for anyone with the patience to read. I'll take care of you tomorrow, if I have time. Voting for YM now, I agree that there is something rotten in the state of Denmark. Also, who was scum for wanting to lynch the dt again? OHHH RIGHT, ME. This is *why* we lynch the DT first. Imagine if chaos *hadn't* been shot, we'd still be arguing about how VE is "our dt hope" | ||
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On July 02 2011 08:09 Palmar wrote: No one trusted VE anyway GM... Sure. Keep telling yourself that. But people were listening to him, no one doubted his report on Visc. So tell me, how does your argument that I am scum based on wanting to lynch the DT stand now? Does it look... weaker? What are the arguments for me being scum now? Other than defending Drazek, which I will admit was a blunder on my part. Again, I'm cool with confirm shooting me tomorrow, but at least this makes the majority of the arguments against me null and void. | ||
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On July 02 2011 08:15 Palmar wrote: My arguments remain the same man. If you honestly believed that we should lynch the DT first, why not just actually push for it. Note though, if you actually read through this day, I've both accused you with what I consider a pretty reasonable analysis, and then pointed out several points in your defense. I am much more interested in what you think about the current lynch targets. Youngminii and Sinani201. I was going to push for lynching the DT, but then the entire town jumped on me, and I was tied up with other things at the time, so I said "fuck it" and just left the thread. It was that or an angry insulting rant, while those are fun and everything, I didn't want to ruin all my work for a good town atmosphere by shitting up the thread. So I just wrote a furious post defending my stance, deleted it without posting and left to do other things. Was it the best attitude? No, but seeing how pissed I was (not just at you guys, at the universe in general), I wasn't going to be able to argue without risking getting modkilled for flaming. It wasn't worth it, so I said whatever, I'll take the lynch. I prefer YM over Sinani201 at the moment, based on the fact that there's still a GF out here somewhere, and I am convinced he is in the veteran list, that list is slowly narrowing down, I'm actually pretty sure one of us three that vied for thread control early on is scum, and I know I'm not, so its you or YM. I don't have a strong case against you (yet, maybe, I haven't gone back and read your posts as a whole again) and YM seems to me to not be playing anything like XLII, so I think there is an above 50% chance he is scum. However what is the most current case on 201? I need to take a look at him again | ||
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On July 02 2011 08:23 gtrsrs wrote: mafia shot viscera i'm calling it right now also surprise surprise GMarshal pops back in from his real life dilemma to try to start a late bandwagon my scumbell lost some of its confidence when i pushed for a lynch on Xedat on a scumtell i was 100% sure of and he flipped green was hyaach's case really decent? really? i don't think so. all he did was highlight my short posts and go LOOK SCUM. i retain that i haven't done anything remotely scummy this game and all my actions have been pro-town note that i'm not counter-accusing him. i don't think he's scum, just overeager townie anyways i'm 100% sure GMarshal is scum, still. he's trying to prod me into insulting him so i get modkilled. it's exactly the same way aprudds got me riled up in SNMMIV and derailed the town. GMarshal was the moderator so he is just trying to repeat the same tactic. but where aprudds was just misreading something, GMarshal is doing it intentionally to derail town. *yawn* I'm not going to argue about the honesty of my claims about problems in real life, theres no point. I did just spend approximately the last 6 hours arguing with scum... I mean bureaucrats... over the phone, so I may be a touch temperamental. However I *do* have a few minutes now I can dedicate to mafia now, and I decided I would. You have my most *profound* apologies for trying to play in a game I said I would play in, next time I will fit my schedule around your rigorous demands of not being called out for doing nothing for the town. If I wanted to bait you, I'd have you raging by now, but gentlemen don't try to get other people modkilled, and I consider myself a gentleman Please, for my amusement, point out a "pro-town" action you have made. Any such action will do. | ||
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On July 02 2011 08:35 ~OpZ~ wrote: LMAO....Dude...Gtfo... I claimed it instantly, AND I HIT RED. But here. Just to make you hush about mechanics: Can Mafia hit another Mafia Member? With 5 hits out there its *blatantly* obvious you are faking Opz. I mean you must be the scum aligned vigilante, or the serial killer, trying to gain town cred. ~Opz just lowered the scum KP by one, if he is mafia then he has balls of steel. That is all. | ||
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If so then we can spare you today and have you bomb me to confirm me tomorrow, killing two birds with one stone. That also lets the comp-vig shoot at will. Can we agree to this? Suicidal Hatters are *also* easy to confirm. I like conformable roles, they make life hell for the one KP mafia. | ||
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On July 02 2011 09:38 youngminii wrote: Yeah I'm down for that. I still can't believe a Vig never shot you lawlawlawl Agreed, I was so pumped to get shot too. Anyway, unvoting you and moving to sinani201, who was the other lynch candidate for the day. Also I know sinani206 replaced, but can someone tell me who replaced him? I remember I was suspicious of 206, but I need to go back and look over his replacements posts. | ||
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On July 02 2011 09:45 Palmar wrote: oh, btw, that link is the post we're assuming chaos was breadcrumbing in. Ok thanks. I'm still not fully caught up with the thread (I basically just skimmed a bunch ) I have a few hours tomorrow, and maybe tonight, so I'll try to get caught up. Also curious to note, from my vet list from long ago. LSB is dead YM is about to die to confirm GM is about to be confirmed Palmar - is still around GGQ - lurking Wiggles- Lurking Jackal -lurking My bet is that one of those four is scum. The lurking fits in with the mafia team falling apart as their better players are AFK. So I think we need to start considering those three (palmar isn't lurking) for lynch/shooting tomorrow. | ||
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GMarshal
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On July 02 2011 09:53 Jackal58 wrote: I wasn't aware I was lurking. Again, not fully caught up, I just don't remember any relevant posts from you, could be my bad ^_^ | ||
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Also holly mother of god, thats a graph. Now, who the hell do we vote for? 3 hours to come up with a reasonable lynch... Anyone up for lynching hiro? | ||
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GMarshal
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On July 02 2011 10:09 Palmar wrote: Wiggles. I'm actually completely up for that. I'm suspicious of hiro, but wiggles is a good gf candidate. Watch him claim something like Comp Vigi or hatter now | ||
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On July 02 2011 14:09 GGQ wrote: Eiii perhaps? Maybe Vain? Possibly hiro as well. One of the lower key players I think. | ||
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GMarshal
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On July 02 2011 14:41 ~OpZ~ wrote: ...K, who thinks the medics should role claim? Think about it...two vigi's with lurker shots, medics claim, who are probably lurking anyway, mafia KP is what, 1? Won't need the medics protection, too many confirmed townies around here.... But plz discuss this, its just an idea. 1.) How do you know scum won't fakeclaim? 2.) How do you know we have medics? Seems like a less than brilliant idea to me... | ||
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GMarshal
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On July 02 2011 14:44 Mataza wrote: I would hope they do. It would mean we are 2 piss easy kills away from winning this. I dont understand how it helps. Say two medics claim and one is scum. How do you tell from that? | ||
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GMarshal
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On July 02 2011 14:53 ~OpZ~ wrote: Look at his posts. Analyze him. Kill one. I don't think we wont be able to kill...-_-...Jeez, we're just looking for one person out of 17 or 18.... I'm confirmed Vig killed drop bear YM is gonna blow up himself Medics claiming would just shrink the pool of players to look through, because we don't need any protections to win.... I don't see how this is a problem. We would need 8 mislynches to lose if YM didn't blow up.... Fair enough, I just don't really see the advantages to the whole medics claiming thing, but we can run with it. What are you going to do if no medics claim? | ||
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On July 03 2011 17:54 syllogism wrote: If we can't fully trust GM, it seems ideal play is to have youngminii plant his bombs on GM and some lurker, who doesn't get named, and have him not detonate the bombs until much later. The remaining scum will have to waste a shot on youngminii eventually. Of course, if youngminii or GM is somehow lying, this will prolong the game unnecessarily. Someone should do behavioural analysis of the people remaining and determine who is most likely to be a jerk who doesn't mind wasting everyone's time in an almost unwinnable game I'm cool with that ^_^ I'd also like to point out that playing from a hard position is not "being a jerk" its playing to win, we don't need to bash the opposition just because they are making our life difficult. I really think Wiggles and co. were distancing themselves from hiro, which is why I think he is scum, and I really wish someone would post the lurker list already so they can be shot/bombed. | ||
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GMarshal
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On July 03 2011 18:17 Palmar wrote: GM, trying to kill Hiro is a scumtell in this game. Syllo, chill out a bit. But we really, really need that lurker list up. It's only 20-ish hours until the next day hits. By the way, from tomorrow onwards, I will no longer be enjoying my summer vacation, so expect some drop in activity, but mostly a drop in availability as I'll only be around a few hours every day. AHA, trying to justify LURKING! I see right through your scumscuses! ##Nuke: Palmar Agreed though, we need the lurker list! | ||
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GMarshal
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On July 04 2011 00:59 GGQ wrote: And this is why I still think it could be GMarshal, he's very principled, and I don't think he'd ever willingly surrender when he's supposed to play to win. I'm more than happy to take a bomb to prove my innocence ^_^ If I were scum though I would have never posted anything like that, I would rather be emphasizing how we have the game in the bag and how scum stands no chance now. I see your challenge Palmar, I'll see what I can do, I may not have time though, no promises. You do bring up an interesting point though GGQ, whoever is still playing probably either thinks they stand a chance (so a good player with town cred) or is inactive/lurking enough to either not notice how badly they are off/haven't noticed yet. Either way I subscribe to purging the inactives and then worrying about everyone else | ||
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GMarshal
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On July 04 2011 01:07 syllogism wrote: Yes, it's also a bit weird how he sort of threw a tantrum when people piled on him after d1 and seemed to lose interest in the game for a while As I said RL issues came up. I belive my "tantrum" was justified by the fact that I was 1.) Playing obviously town (or at least the worst scum I've ever played) 2.) really, really easy to confirm. Either way, what have you done for this town syllo? I notice you don't have much the first few days... | ||
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On July 04 2011 01:41 syllogism wrote: Claiming veteran, especially immediately after day post, was such a terrible move And allowing the town to lynch me was a better play? Perhaps I should have hard defended myself and mucked up the thread for 15 pages of me yelling at people? I was actually hoping the mafia would RB me and shoot me right off the bat, so I could stop checking the thread (that was at the time, I'm happy to be living now, although a nice bomb to the chest right about now would make me happy). Basically I didn't have the time or the patience to deal with the situation at hand. I'm not saying it was the *best* play, but given how much fun the town was having calling for my head on a pike (there were like what, 6 analysis?), I didn't see it as that bad. Either way, discussing me is wasting time, we need to look at lurkers and likely scum. I sustain my motion of lynching Hiro, its not a bad idea from wiggles perspective to just play solo at that point and try to survive off of the cred of having lynched sucm. Plus hiro has all of 5 posts or something, at least shoot the man and ease my mind. | ||
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GMarshal
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On July 04 2011 01:46 syllogism wrote: I wonder why they didn't role block you, seems like a better idea than randomly role blocking youngminii. It was quite likely one of the vigs would shoot at you to confirm. I have no idea why. Ask DB. Also it is possible I was RBed, as you are only informed of a roleblock if its successful (meaning you have an action that can be roleblocked), when was YM rbed again? I kind of missed that part of his claim. | ||
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GMarshal
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On July 04 2011 06:14 Jackal58 wrote: There are 15 people remaining. All have posted in the thread at least once since the Wiggles lynch so I think it's safe to say we are not looking for somebody that doesn't kow they are last man standing. The remaining are: sinani206 GMarshal gtrsrs Cthsazsa aprudds youngminii Hyaach hiro protagonist Mig GGQ Jackal58 Eiii Palmar ~OpZ~ syllogism Of those 15 I only see 4 of us that wold never surrender regardless of the odds. I would suggest to town that you kill us all with extreme prejudice in any manner you have left available to you. Bombs, ropes, guns or whatever you like. In any order you like. Get this game over with. Actually this isn't a terrible plan, I can run with it. I'd really appreciate it if you'd check me with a bomb, as I'm easily verifiable and I don't have to die as part of the process. YM needs to get his suiciding over with so we can clear him, and his second bomb should be on hiro or syllogism. I can go with this plan. Your objection to it palmar is... questionable. Do you see any actual flaws with this plan? | ||
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On July 04 2011 07:41 Palmar wrote: Yes, of course I do. You're scummy as fuck and can be confirmed with a bomb. I've probably played more pro-town than anyone else in this game. While the town together has worked to hit the results we have now, I'd like to think that some part of the success was mine. I am actually very proud of how I've played this game. That being said, I'm not letting you guys throw it out the window with some ridiculous shoot people on a list plan. And what do you plan to do exactly if none of the players in this list is the mafia? That's great, 4 wasted KP's that could've gone to people that actually might be scum. No, we kill the people who we think are scum, not some stupid list that might as well make no sense. I don't buy this. I don't think suggesting it is scummy, just stupid. You know whats funny? the "I've been more pro town than anyone" argument is what I tried to use to shoot your plan down in PTP. Didn't work for me, I don't know why it should work for you. I mean this plan is playing safe, right? | ||
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On July 04 2011 08:00 Palmar wrote: This is a great point. If we silently lynch four people, who are all okay with being lynched. What information do we gain if it happens to be wrong? Are you really willing to gamble the game on this Jackal58, are you willing to lose a won game because you have terrible meta reads and useless town play? I don't buy it. If the mafia isn't one of you three guys, he is probably laughing his ass of right now. If we were all ok with being lynched, I would probably object, but it seems to me that you have serious issues with dying. Which is an interesting reaction. Town shouldn't be this upset about a little noose around the neck. Either way, for now I'm willing to take out Hiro/gtrs/Eiii first and worry about it later, but if we aren't making progress with the lurker lynches, I'd be more than willing to look at you again. ^_^ Off to take a nap now, talk to you all later. | ||
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GMarshal
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On July 04 2011 08:34 Palmar wrote: yep OpZ, I was the one who pushed the Wiggles lynch. People can be right even if they're scum And yes, I have made mistakes. You see, when you put yourself in a position like I willingly took upon myself, you will fuck up. There is no one who plays the game perfectly Just like everyone who is trying to get me lynched are about to screw up pretty badly. I want the town to take a long good hard look at the people who are pushing this, as anyone with half a brain can tell I'm town. Hmm I've never read arguments like *that* before. On June 18 2011 02:39 GMarshal wrote: No doubt you do. Please, ignore all my contributions and just lynch me! Seriously, make a case or don't, but don't lynch "just because" On June 17 2011 08:32 GMarshal wrote: RedFF revealed my role, I don't have any KP left, and fuck it, you know I'm almost guaranteed to be town. Lynch steff instead, Cstha has a pretty decent analysis of him written up. All I'm asking for is a little trust, for getting DB lynched at the very least. I think I earned it. On June 18 2011 04:24 GMarshal wrote: Sure Rean is town. Town =/= right. If he is town then he is getting shot tonight, because the mafia can't afford confirmed townies. Again, I don't see the issue with letting me live another night, and if we haven't won, lynching me tomorrow. Seriously, I've played super town this entire game. All I need is to make it to tomorrow, and we win, come on rean and palmar, don't make me fucking lose ;_; Right, thats where I saw "I'm town, lynching me is idiotic" before, in a similar situation. How amusing. Seems you learned something from reading PTP, namely that repetition can be as useful as a good argument. Tell me palmar, why are you so devoted to staying alive? I already said that I'm 100% fine with being bombed or shot, yet you seem *outraged* at the suggestion that we might lynch you. Again, we can exterminate lurkers, but if/when the game hits lylo, we'll know who the mafia is. Hopefully by then someone will have been kind enough to riddle me with amunition to prove my alignment. (Come on YM, don't fail me here, you know that if palmar is scum he's already setting me up as his convincing endgame mislynch, being confirmed would resolve any such doubts) | ||
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On July 04 2011 08:57 syllogism wrote: Well I reread the thread and nothing really stood up. Meta points to the last one being some stubborn veteran, but none of them really make sense as the last scum. I think I'll have to vote GGQ or Eiii today. I don't think, however, we'll be hitting mafia today. YM should be allowed to post his actions tomorrow no matter what, so if he gets sniped early, the flip should be delayed until his actions are in. Fully agree. I at least hope he placed a bomb on me >.> <.< How amusing would it be if we all got placed in the lurker list? | ||
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