EPTOn July 10 2011 09:06 Fishball wrote:
If LSB could have protected me there, I would have been extremely impressed.
If LSB could have protected me there, I would have been extremely impressed.
He used that on BC night 0.
Closed Casket Mafia - Page 63
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
citi.zen
2509 Posts
He used that on BC night 0. | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
To my amusement, both of them died on Night 0. I assumed the worst and that all 4 Mafia remained. Night 1, I questioned why no one has claimed being role blocked yet. I swear this role would have existed in Ace's game, base on what I know of Ace and what he had commented in other threads, (just like how much he dislikes Bus Drivers in his games). It would all make sense if the Role Blocker had died Night 0. Actually, this was part of our plan. We were going to roleblock+kill people for 2 nights so that we hid the roleblock from being shown, then when we actually roleblocked someone they would look suspicious claiming RB on D3 or something since no one had claimed previously. On top of that we were also a bit worried of roles that activate upon being killed, so we figured two birds, one stone. Namely Zombies/Virgins/NRA member, etc. The problem with that was that our roleblocker died N0 -_- | ||
|
Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
I know. You missed the part where I said: On July 10 2011 08:32 Fishball wrote: It did perplex me and Ace, when Ace told me that LSB had decided to protect BC on Night 0, even though BC had not done anything. LSB later claimed he protected BC just because he was the "biggest name". lolwut? Just saying if LSB hadn't wasted his protection, and was able to use it to save me, I would have been impressed. | ||
|
Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
On July 10 2011 09:24 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Actually, this was part of our plan. We were going to roleblock+kill people for 2 nights so that we hid the roleblock from being shown, then when we actually roleblocked someone they would look suspicious claiming RB on D3 or something since no one had claimed previously. On top of that we were also a bit worried of roles that activate upon being killed, so we figured two birds, one stone. Namely Zombies/Virgins/NRA member, etc. The problem with that was that our roleblocker died N0 -_- I had thought of that plan, because if I were Mafia, I would have likely done the same. I was actually more concerned of getting Role Blocked than dying on Night 2. We can all agree that Caller is crazy ;/ | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
I admit the reason we also pushed it as the smart play was because while theoretically the town should lynch the DT first in that scenario, we knew SAYING it should happen and actually making it happen would be hard, since everyone wants to trust blue roles and not just haphazardly throw them away. On the flip side of that, if one of us decided to claim DT later on we could force the town to lean to not killing us, since I knew they wouldn't want to anyway. Policy lynching DT's is always a tough sell, and I figured we should establish the need and reasoning behind how DT's should play earlier on. It would allow us to kill you if we notice what you are doing, while hopefully keeping the town off our asses. Even though there are ways we can use a DT policy lynch to our advantage as mafia, to deny the danger of a DT claim to the longevity of the town would be foolish. Think about if we fake claimed with the same case as you, it wouldn't be hard to sell it up the river for the next few nights, especially if we KNEW we killed one DT already. | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On July 10 2011 09:30 Fishball wrote: I had thought of that plan, because if I were Mafia, I would have likely done the same. I was actually more concerned of getting Role Blocked than dying on Night 2. We can all agree that Caller is crazy ;/ Without a doubt I can agree. I remember when I was arguing with him before I died I said something like "You are full of shit, and you have more than 1 kill" and he said something about how if that were true he would be lying and would get lynched, and is therefore playing against his win condition. I said something in reference to his Insane Israeli bus driver claim, and how I wouldn't put it past him. Then 5 minutes after I die he goes "Oh btw I have 2 hits" I face palmed so hard that I woke up two hours later on the floor with a palm print scar on my forehead. | ||
|
Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
On July 10 2011 09:33 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: I also still think the DT claim was poorly played. I think you should of been able to push a case on me without claiming, and claiming puts the town in an awkward position assuming there is no flips. Even if the idea was mafia supported, it was still a valid strategy. I admit the reason we also pushed it as the smart play was because while theoretically the town should lynch the DT first in that scenario, we knew SAYING it should happen and actually making it happen would be hard, since everyone wants to trust blue roles and not just haphazardly throw them away. On the flip side of that, if one of us decided to claim DT later on we could force the town to lean to not killing us, since I knew they wouldn't want to anyway. Policy lynching DT's is always a tough sell, and I figured we should establish the need and reasoning behind how DT's should play earlier on. It would allow us to kill you if we notice what you are doing, while hopefully keeping the town off our asses. Even though there are ways we can use a DT policy lynch to our advantage as mafia, to deny the danger of a DT claim to the longevity of the town would be foolish. Think about if we fake claimed with the same case as you, it wouldn't be hard to sell it up the river for the next few nights, especially if we KNEW we killed one DT already. Like I said before, blindly claiming is never good, no matter what role, but this is not even close to that. There are a lot of elements that I factor in before claiming. How long would I be able to lay low before drawing too much negative attention? How likely can I get you lynched if I had not claimed? How much more effort do I have to do put in to get you lynched, even if I can get you lynched? How likely will a receive protection if I had not claimed? Is it likely that I would receive protection if I had claimed? How much time do I have in real life to deal with this? Would Town fair well if I had died? What audience am I facing? Is RoL ghey? etc. etc.. Regardless, I planned it out, achieved my goal, got you lynched in record time; I can't really ask for more. Of course, if I had known a Medic was dead and the Mafia knows a Medic is dead and LSB already blew his, I probably would have acted differently, but that also means I would be cheating. Results speaks louder than hypothetical scenarios. I'd do it again in this game if you had ask me. In a new game however, who knows? The variables changes, my answer changes, as well as my decisions. | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
| ||
|
Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
On July 10 2011 10:10 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: I really think I could of fought off your accusation if I played it a bit better. Namely attacking everything you said, your mild analysis of me, your claim, and not strayed off into what the fuck caller might be thinking. The biggest issue I faced was starting to argue when I was already like 2 votes away from my lynch. Your case was alright, but basically just came down to "I checked rol." and whether or not the veracity of your claim could stand up to scrutiny, which if I played it right, it shouldn't have. That's my opinion though, while I may not have lived and I might have still gotten lynched it definitely wouldn't of happened in such a quick pace. I am surprised at how quickly the town just decided to rape me, it was a bit disappointing considering how frail I felt your case was. So we're talking about my case against you now? Like I said many times, even to myself. No "if's". "Frail case" it may be, but this "frail case" was convincing to most, and this "frail case" achieved it's goal. You just can't argue about that. If you're really surprised how quickly the Town jumped on the wagon, then you're really missing a lot of things. No matter how legit your reasoning might be, to yourself (like the missing last vote incident), it does not matter. You were suspected; Not just by me, but by others as well. Why would I check you if I had not suspected you? All I had to do was to confirm it in public. From a psychological stand point, this "confirmation" acts like an exclamation mark. It gives them the notion of, "Fuck yeah, let's do this". Town at that point cannot know for sure whether I'm Mafia or Town, but they were all willing to hop on my wagon to run you over. If that wasn't enough, your scrambled defensive posts only supported my accusations even more. Re-read them from a blind unknowing Townie point of view, and you will see why (or I hope you would). Hell, you can even ask the others in the thread. | ||
|
citi.zen
2509 Posts
"I used my one bullet to shoot GMarshal." The response came back "true". The tested statement really has two parts: one was true; one not so much, but could be interpreted as such, ex - one bullet that night. At any rate if Ace only provided a single true/false statement he may well have referred to the shooting of GM. I think BC could and should have made the case for his innocence, especially with FB confirming him as town. As I said in my initial post: don't freeze based on what you know happened (in this case, that you lied about the role). Start with the premise that you are clean, then look for ways to explain the world to fit that premise. Edit: as a red, I was terrified at the prospect BC was telling the truth. You could simply ask for everyone to write "I am not red" in a post and essentially you'd have another DT. Talk about taunting the mafia! BC made an interesting claim and clearly his reads of Caller and FB as town were correct. He just got... overly fancy. Playing "straight" and backing up FB and Caller in the thread would have created a very hard to stop force. | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
I still think you played it out wrong, even if it worked for a bit. And by a bit, I mean until you, BC, and caller proceeded to die and confuse the town which all half stemmed from your DT claim. | ||
|
Ace
United States16096 Posts
 | ||
|
LSB
United States5171 Posts
At the end I had it down to Kurimi/Citizen (really? Killing chez cause he's green), but I shot the wrong one. I think we should have followed chez's advice from the start. Do Not Lie, that would have saved us from mylynching BC, Caller, and me from shooting Kurimi | ||
|
Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
On July 10 2011 11:53 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Fishball, I am fairly good at looking at a situation from an unbiased standpoint. When I say your case against me was pretty much "lol I checked him" I assure you, it was. And based on what, do you that think you're fairly good at looking at a situation from an unbiased standpoint, and when you say my case against you was pretty much "lol I checked him", that you can assure me, it was? lol. On July 10 2011 11:53 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: The people who suspected me were you, and if you want to count caller shouting randomly how I slipped as him suspecting me, then I guess you can count him too. I didn't see anyone else really suspecting me, even if my play was sloppy. This is what I found within 2 minutes of searching. Feel free to search the rest of the 60 pages if you will. Bottom line is, does it matter if I was the only one on you? People were convinced. How hard is it to understand? + Show Spoiler + On June 29 2011 23:05 Caller wrote: more to come when I feel like it RoL just scumslipped On June 30 2011 03:52 Caller wrote: by the way, Ace is probably laughing his ass off that a combination of my stupidity + other stupid townies is going to get town in a circlejerk of lynching ourselves while mafia trollololol in the background. I see you there, RoL. On June 30 2011 23:13 LSB wrote: I support this, for my own reasons. Oh and ##Vote: RebirthofLegend On June 30 2011 23:25 ilovejonn wrote: ##Vote: RebirthofLegend I was already suspicious of him from the vote switch and excuse, + his hit claim right after Night post seems to just be causing confusion for the town. And a non-randomly shouting version of Caller: + Show Spoiler + On July 01 2011 00:48 Caller wrote: RoL, stop dodging and claim. You're trying to pull a busdrove onto a dead guy as an insane DT. So let's take your hypothetical here. That I'm actually a 3rd party. Firstly this means through your inference that you "know" I'm not mafia. That's a scumslip. But let's say its not strong enough. If I were 3rd party, would I claim that I'm a killing role? Would I also say I have one bullet, and then proceed to shoot somebody else? Let's think about it: In a game of this size, reasonably there would be 1 or 2 Vigilantes at the most. Deconduo was a vigilante. I can confirm this because I was also a vigilante and he said things that only a vigilante in this game would know. Namely, we both only have one bullet, and some other things. So there are no more vigilantes in this game. I shot GMarshal. There was only one other hit Night 0. It must have been the mafia hit, because I would've gotten my shot refunded otherwise (hint: I didn't.) By deduction, since a 3rd party role wants to kill people, the fact that nobody else died means that either I am the 3rd party or there is no 3rd party. You claimed that you were shot last night, and Scamp also died. Therefore, you say there were two hits. I did not shoot, because I only had one bullet that was used Night 0. If I was 3rd party, why would I endanger myself by shooting? I'd prove myself to either be 3rd party or a liar, both of which are lynchworthy. As I've already shown, either I am the 3rd party or there is no 3rd party as seen in night 0. There is no reason for me, if I were 3rd party, to trap myself in this situation, especially by doing what I did. If town wouldn't kill a 3rd party in that situation, mafia would. Basically, unless you're saying I'm violating the "play-to-win" rule, and saying I deserve to be modkilled, you're full of shit and also a liar. You didn't take a hit last night, and this was clearly planned ahead of time (as you'll see below). I'm now utterly convinced that Fishball is legit. When I claimed, this was your reaction: Why the sudden about face? Was it because this was a plan that you created to get town to waste a lynch on me? Good try, but now you're in the shithole. Also, I remember you pulling a similar stunt back a long, long time ago. This game, in fact: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=83951¤tpage=30#594 . Turned out you were mafia that game. ##Vote: RebirthofLegend On July 10 2011 11:53 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: I still think you played it out wrong, even if it worked for a bit. You can keep your opinions to yourself if I haven't made that point clear already. I've explained in detail to you with actual facts and results, and that I clearly don't agree with you. No, I don't expect your to agree with me, but you shouldn't expect your rant will be convincing me or anyone else either. Or are you like L, who likes to live in his own world with his own logic? On July 10 2011 11:53 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: And by a bit, I mean until you, BC, and caller proceeded to die and confuse the town which all half stemmed from your DT claim. It was BC's lie as a vanilla Townie that drew further suspicion on me, stemming Caller to think that me and BC were Mafia. Did you not read the thread at all? Even citi.zen has pointed that out. To further elaborate, regardless of how "bad" BC's lie was, him, as a vanilla Townie, without full knowledge of my alignment, was convinced enough by my claim to lie for me. You can down play me all you want with your blanket statement, but all that supports your claim is you and your own words. On July 10 2011 12:16 Ace wrote: LSB suspected you too, thats how you got shot/mimiced that night I left that point out on purpose. He is clearly upset and is just tunneling me now. Damn I'm good at this. Someone give me a Village Idiot role already. Logic is nothing in front of a broken ego. | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
| ||
|
Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
On July 10 2011 09:17 Fishball wrote: You could only have kept me alive if you were lynched the Night before in place of RoL, which is not possible. Well, yeah, I could've gotten myself lynched and bought you another night, that's what I was saying. Then you guys could've lynched rol the next night, and you had another investigation. | ||
|
Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
| ||
|
Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
On July 10 2011 17:05 Palmar wrote: Well, yeah, I could've gotten myself lynched and bought you another night, that's what I was saying. Then you guys could've lynched rol the next night, and you had another investigation. You could have? Sure... Fuck this, I'll bite. Look, I was to set to make a move that Night. There is no way in hell, after me putting RoL on the chopping block, you can somehow overthrow my claim and replace him with your head. Even if you had publicly claimed Virgin, there will be people questioning the legitimacy of your claim, and why should we lynch a greater variable (you), in place of a likely scum (RoL). I had aimed to rid of RoL swiftly. Do you think I would have allowed RoL to live possibly another 120 hours to "defend" himself? Also, it's not like I know there is a Virgin in the game. If you really wanted to buy time for Town, the only way I see it is to publicly claim Day 1, make a solid case and offer yourself to be lynched. On July 10 2011 17:07 Palmar wrote: Also, I think that everyone suspected RoL at the time Fishball, you probably could've got the lynch done traditionally I've at least answered to this a handful of times, during the game and post game. I would have like to speak my mind here, but that would not be very nice. | ||
|
Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
| ||
|
Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Looking back, it's interesting to notice that the biggest supporters of "Lynch-the-DT-claimer-no-matter-what" plan, were GM, Radfield, and RoL, all whom are Mafia. Actually, I spent several posts arguing that the dt should NOT be lynched first, and maybe not lynched at all. I don't think I actually posted after your claim as I went MIA. | ||
| ||
