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btw I only read the role claim post before I saw this. A failsafe claim is almost always a fakeclaim. It didn't even require analysis of any of citizen's posts.
It's too bad Palmar and Amber got so tunneled in on JeeJee.
This is why you never rely on claims unless you are playing with very experienced players who can spot out fakeclaims. Some players are sickeningly good at this at Mafia Scum forums, I saw someone pegged as SK and all powers revealed just because of the powers he claimed.
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On July 09 2011 16:13 sandroba wrote:
Also let me reminf you guys that YM claimed Bernard, so all theories regarding Scum being fed fake claims have gone to hell. I claimed Lenin, so as long as no one counter claims me you have no reason to doubt it.
lol wrong thread
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Chez, you're amazing at this, but there is no way for someone, especially someone that's playing with you for the first time, to tell if you're innocent or guilty.
Like, you don't bother to establish your innocence at all.
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like, if you had actually collected your thoughts on citi.zen and written them down for us before you died, in a non-trolly manner, then it could've won the game for us.
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oh, and btw, more of you guys should sign up for BC's AA game.
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I didn't read most of the thread, but I was pretty certain ILJ/Jeejee couldn''t have been mafia when there was a night kill on n4 despite there being only one mafia left and ILJ being completely AWOL. I think there would have been more urgency to replace him otherwise
Well maybe that was a bad assumption since he presumably did inform Ace of his absence
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My thoughts on Closed Casket Mafia
1. Mafia did nothing to win this game
Why? Two major errors made by town gave them the game - Caller trolling(mostly lying) and ilj's shady role claim. Also deciding on hits on N0(and other ones, with claims too -_-) couldn't be easier:
Tier 1 (most likely to get hit, not in particular order) : Caller, GGQ, Fishball, LSB, BloodyC0bbler, Amber[LighT] (notice that only BC is the VT)
Tier 2 (might get hit based on reads) : Chezinu, Scamp, Jackal58, ilovejonn,
Tier 3 (new players, would never got hit) Palmar, VisceraEyes, Kurumi
The scum's game was just shooting vets and getting free blues too, I tried to attract shots asking some dumb questions about Coroner to get hit - getting perhaps Coroner Kurumi is worse than getting Vanilla Townie BloodyC0bbler, still.
2. Chezinu and Caller are amazing players
Really, Chez had amazing reads, but his case was never brought up. I was against lynching Chezinu as You know - because ilj stinked scum like heck and after his flip maybe we'd think what should be next. Caller dug his own grave - but was resilient and uncontrollable by anyone.
I am sad these players did not try to influence the town more - especially Chezinu.
3. Giving every Mafia Member a role is dumb
Seriously? Scumdoc is like roleblocker on vigilante, scum team had a Roleblocker and roleblocker for DTs - Lawyer. Scumteam had 2aKP(anti-KP), the same amount as town. Also the Janitor role.. Giving scum even more information than they need.. Amazing.
Just think how it'd go without Caller shooting GM and getting Roleblocker N0.
Conclusion
Setup favored scum heavily, town had really no option to play high risk - high reward style, role distribution played out terribly, I am angry at ILJ and myself - because the only thing I could do entire game is to try attract the hits(and failing), lie and pick on shady roleclaim.. I didn't notice how citi.zen was lurking (I was suspicious of Amber because of that) and couldn't think logically - why the heck last scum would get replaced when it can't win? Modkill would be fair and fast.
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Oh another thing learnt - re-read every claim carefully. Maybe I'd get something after re-reading citi.zen's claim, not only LSB's and ILJ's.
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I'm really confused. What the hell happened to my body and what did you maniacs do with it?
Also wondering why I was hit night 1. Not that I minded since I was VT but still curious about why.
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On July 09 2011 19:21 Scamp wrote:
I'm really confused. What the hell happened to my body and what did you maniacs do with it?
Also wondering why I was hit night 1. Not that I minded since I was VT but still curious about why.
Presumably RoL janitor'ed you.
BTW, I protted RoL on night 0 as a peace offering for getting him lynched in XLII. Then the bastard shot me luls.
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good writeup kurumi, I agree with most of it.
The mistake was ultimately mine, I simply did not have the balls to make an independent decision.
Can we get a link to the mafia QT?
There are some things that I really, really had a problem with though. My big mistakes were getting caught up in a useless argument with VisceraEyes on day one, and then obviously the end-game. But here are a few that really had a detrimental effect on town.
a) BC's claim. The idea was novel, I really like the fact that his read on Fishball was so strong that he was willing to lie to confirm him. But man... when you lie as town, you better make damn fucking sure that you cannot get caught, cause that's when the shitstorm happens. I learned this lesson in PTP.
b) Caller's trolling and repeated lying. Sure, I can get the idea behind claiming one-shot vigilante in order to avoid roleblocks, but why the hell did you not just say "sorry, my bad" after killing BC. I'm almost sure that you'd have gotten away with it. Everyone knew then that BC had been lying, even if it was for the good of town. So we basically wasted a lynch because you felt the need to lie again.
c) Kurumi/ILJ/Chezinu. All of those guys did very little to establish their innocence, at least in my opinion. Instead of trolling and throwing one-liners, then I'd really appreciate it if people would attempt to look pro-town. I wasted effort going after Kurumi, and Chezinu got cleared by a confirmed innocent, and he STILL got lynched, only based on the fact that he was scummy as hell anyway. ILJ was just... not beneficial to town. If JeeJee had been playing from the start we'd have rocked this game, easily, but ILJ did nothing to show he was innocent early on.
VE/Deconduo got themselves modkilled. That was pretty stupid.
Anyway, I agree with everything you said except the conclusion Kurumi. Town had at least a very reasonable chance to win this game. We fucked up repeatedly and didn't make any massive game-changing plays really. Yes, the mafia didn't have to do much to achieve the win, but at least citi.zen's claim was well thought out. Kudos to Sandroba for that... I told you he was a good player not playing to his standard 
Any number of things could've turned this into the town's favor, we just kept fucking up.
a) Caller simply claiming the kill on BC
b) VisceraEyes not getting himself modkilled (I was 100% sure on him being town)
c) Me not fucking up the end-game
d) Chezinu actually put effort into proving his innocence
e) ILJ doing the same, or JeeJee having played from much earlier
f) ILJ not screwing up his roleclaim
g) BC not lying to confirm Fishball
I think even just one of those things would've turned the game into town's favour.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
citi.zen, you played really well down the stretch. I left you(and my whole team) in a poor spot after I subbed out, as several players had caught on to my poor play(including you Palmar). The Chief Investigator roleclaim was absolutely brilliant and game-changing. Jeejee, you also played great after subbing in for ILJ(in an even worse spot) and I don't think there's much you could have done better.
Palmar, I thought your play this game was good, and your reads most of the game were sound. You were put in an unenviable position in the late-game, and I think you played it out fine. Yes, there were signs that perhaps JeeJee was telling the truth, but there are always signs, and you can't be expected to always find them. I think were I in the same position as you, I would have made the same decision.
Chez, you're one of the best analytical players on this site, and one of my favourite players to play with. You just need to work on being able to convince other players.
Caller, this is the best game I've seen you play. You were all over the scum team, and possibly could have nailed them all, but you outplayed yourself by trying to get fancy. You shot GM night 1!!! and were on top of RoL and sand by day 2, and had I lived to day 3 you might have got me too. If you had simply played straight up the game would have ended much sooner.
I played terribly this game, and never should have joined. Major kudos to Sandroba and citi.zen for picking up the pieces after RoL went down.
Caller, why did you shoot GM night 1? Was he really that scummy? Or did you just want to start shooting since you had two bullets?
Ace thanks so much for the game. You always run great games. Sorry I had to bail on it.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Why did Deconduo get modkilled?
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On July 09 2011 20:34 Radfield wrote:
Why did Deconduo get modkilled?
This post:
On June 28 2011 22:23 deconduo wrote:
The shady Iraqis who sold me my shotgun only gave me one bullet.
I was breadcrumbing my role which turned out to be illegal 
Its also how Caller knew I was legit.
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Why I didn't get modkilled then too? @_@
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Man this game was hard as fuck for us, since town had an insane amount of blue roles and our roleblocker got sniped night 0.
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Yeah, that's weird, what about other players that claimed roles?
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On July 09 2011 12:36 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2011 12:26 JeeJee wrote:![[image loading]](http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/2979/effdischiz.gif) If only I was better at this fucking game. Someone teach me how to convince people :< Well you made a solid case but Palmar just didn't read it objectively. Show nested quote +On July 09 2011 12:29 Palmar wrote:
could be. Really fucking sucks in that case how damn stupidly suspicious ILJ played the entire game. He messed up a few times but he wasn't that bad. Honestly the argument between you and VisceraEyes day 2 I think was REALLY bad. RebirthofLegend slipped up a lot of times in the midst of it and neither of you caught it. It was so bad that he made a post about Vigilantes and should have been brought up on it because it was honestly beyond stupid and Scummy when he said it. Luckily for the Town LSB and Fishball caught on to it because they were actually READING the thread and not tunneling everyone.
I knew I played a bit sloppy n0, but which posts were you referring to specifically?
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On July 09 2011 13:56 Palmar wrote:
I argued with VE, but I think I was about the one person who had a solid town read on him. It was much more him tunneling me. What was so bad about that thing? It just replaced an equally stupid Fishball v Deconduo argument.
I think most everyone had RoL on their shortlist for scum, which was why it was so easy to turn around the lynch dt first policy when fishball claimed.
I actually wanted to comment on my lynch. I seriously did want to hammer VisceraEyes, I just forgot because I was in a game. I also made a slip up by even considering changing my vote, it put myself unnecessarily in the spot light, but if we could have flipped the lynch I would of rather had Amber die. It was stupid and not well thought out, and I think that was the only thing I clearly remembering going "Fuck, why did I do that" then not hammering VisceraEyes like I said I would was also really bad.
Regarding my lynch, radfield was actually inactive for a couple of days proceeding that, we had absolutely no communication. On N1 I sent in the orders to protect Sandroba and cover radfield. The day flipped and I found out I got hit, and I assumed my orders stood they way I sent them in and even rechecked my PM's beforehand to make sure I didn't have myself protected.
I found out around an hour before I got lynched that Radfield had sent in the order to protect me. Meaning I had already claimed a medic saved me, something I NEVER would have done had I known it was the scum doctor who saved me. I legitimately thought it was a townie who saved me.
I think my biggest mistake that day was attacking Caller. I should of focused my case on why everything fishball was doing was scummy, since we had decided days ago that the way he was playing was dumb, and it really was imo. I mean he couldn't know when I died people would start actually flipping, so you guys would just be following an alignment detective around by the nose, which is just stupid. When I started arguing with caller and accusing him of an SK which I actually thought was possible because a n0 hit is uncharacteristic of a vig, and on Gmarshal is a bit odd, it made me look more desperate and less sensible.
On that note, I also started defending myself WAY too late. I should of started arguing and focusing solely on fishball's scummy-ness immediately after he claimed. Instead I played BW for around 6 hours or something and came back and already had half the required votes on me without my rebuttal in place. For some reason I was like "Pff, still 40 hours to convince people." not thinking he would reach a majority lynch so quickly.
So yeah, sorry Citizen. My fuck up in thinking you were not protecting me and using that in my defense nearly cost you the late game. Good job, and an excellent fake claim that worked wonders. Another point I hadn't seen put out is that both me and JeeJee had basically the same role, and why would scum have two of the same role? I believe people knew generally what I did from my role name and that I claimed coroner at the end.
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On July 09 2011 19:21 Scamp wrote:
I'm really confused. What the hell happened to my body and what did you maniacs do with it?
Also wondering why I was hit night 1. Not that I minded since I was VT but still curious about why.
You are a player I know can be good, but weren't active enough to garner a medic protect. I was really scared this game of hitting medic protection since our kills were so sparse to begin with. To survive early on you seriously need to be more active. Most players who have been around know you have the capability to be good when left alone, and you hadn't done anything majorly suspicious. So I decided to get rid of you.
In future games, if I were you I would try to put on an active day 1. I know it sucks trying to be productive and look important on Day 1 with barely anything to work with, but it scares the mafia away from killing you. If they think you are good, and they think they can get away with shooting you they will do it. You need to put a little doubt in them.
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EPT
